DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What to do with Baker

This thread isn't intended to discuss Baker's past performances and argue about how good or bad he is. It's about what are the Browns going to do about him? This topic is big news on national sports shows because of how uncertain things are w/Baker and the Browns. One former player on a morning show today mentioned that the Browns should move Baker before Jimmy G is able to start throwing again, which is about a month from happening. Here are some options and you can add others that come to your mind.

--Release Baker. Pay him his money and let him sign somewhere else in order to prevent possible distractions once camp opens.

--Eat most of Baker's salary and trade him for a late round draft pick.

--Keep Baker and fine him if he doesn't show up for TC.

--Keep Baker and excuse him from TC while hoping someone will come calling w/a trade proposal.

--Make Baker our starter because we made a mistake in going after Watson.

--Hold on to Baker and hope a QB goes down during TC or early next season.

--Keep Baker and excuse him from all team activities and then receive a compensatory pick next year when he leaves after his contract expires.

I think some of these options are absurd. Others are okay. There are others I prefer more than most. I'd rather hear from you guys first before I chime in w/my opinions.

PS: Feel free to add other options that may have slipped my mind or I haven't even thought of.

The past is the past. Unless someone finally comes up with that time machine, it's pointless to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-hash Baker's last 2 seasons.

I feel like I'm in a dwindling minority on this take, but I do think Baker is a 'good' QB and, therefore, has real value on the open market. I don't understand how Baker can go through the same off-season with diddly in terms of trade movement and Carson Wentz got his previous team draft picks.

I think Berry hanging onto him is reflective of the value he thinks Baker does, in fact, have. If nothing else, cutting Baker does absolutely diddly for the team... so might as well hang onto him in case a team picks up an injury and is desperate. I think Berry thinks extremely pragmatically, and people's (Bakers as well as the team at large) feelings really don't figure much into his decision-making, and so I'd be really surprised if Berry is losing any sleep over the lockerroom effects of Baker remaining on the roster as a lame-duck QB.

I think, with the rumblings of teams being interested but nothing significant ever materializing, that teams don't want to give up draft picks AND take on a bunch of his salary. I think this is also compounded with Baker's injury and lengthy rehab. Teams might want to actually see him looking good post-op before 'talking numbers'.

Speaking of injury, I'll be surprised if the team does NOT excuse Baker from mandatory activities. There's nothing gained from having him there, and he'll probably be limited anyway, depending on how his rehab is going.

I'm not sure this is the answer, but it is the only bargaining chip left. I'm not sure how comp picks work, but I keep reading "probably a 3rd rounder for Baker" as compensation.

So, from an investment standpoint... anything less than a 3rd rounder means I'm sacrificing value for time... and it means I'm paying 18M for a third round pick. Personally, I'm NOT letting him go for less than a 4th unless the other team is absorbing nearly all of his salary.

In other words, they get Baker with 10M of his salary paid, I get a 4th round pick. If they want Baker for a 5th, they're absorbing nearly all of his salary. If they offer a third, I'll pay the entire salary.

His market goes up as soon as the first QB goes down... it gets higher as more fall by the wayside. The risk for any team "kicking it around" and waiting for me to bend, is that market could easily become a 2nd pick with no salary relief as soon as three teams are in need of a QB. Especially if any had a strong start to their season before their QB was injured.

The new CBA requires a team to fine the player for a missed mandatory off season training camp. No longer can teams reduce or waive the fine. Baker would have to be ok with being fined $50k per day. Jake Trotter discussed this on the radio the other day.

I believe the only way to keep Baker away from mandatory team activities would be to put him on the PUP list, assuming he's not cleared to perform.

June 14th-16th is the first mandatory minicamp.

MY 2 cents after a comment about what I heard yesterday. I was listening to a Dayton Ohio ESPN radio segment hosted by a Browns fan. He was discussing the Saints' supposed interest in Baker. I don't think the guy even realized it but he sure sounded as if he was contradicting himself.

He stated the Saints should insist the Browns pay most of Baker's salary and only give up a mid-late round draft pick because the Browns have no leverage. Then he goes on to say that Baker would be the 6th best QB in the NFC and would elevate an average team to a playoff team. How can a QB who can elevate a team to the playoffs be essentially worth nothing? $18 mill is not much for a QB that can do that.

Anyway, my opinion is that Baker is a decent QB. I see no reason to cut him as you have to pay his salary anyway. Keep him on the roster, at least for now. They are in no way rushed. I would actually let him know he is expected to show up for work just like anyone else. The amount of practice and training camp reps are irrelevant. Make it very few if you want.

I have no idea if you fine him for not showing up but to me Baker is a fool is he doesn't. If he really wants another team to take a chance on him, not showing up is a horrible way to reflect that. Also, if he would assist a trade he could get working with another team and develop some kind of relationship. He should also realize that 2023 is expected to be a very deep QB draft and jobs will be less available. I know that is not certain, but he might want to take that into account.


I would not accept a late pick and at the same time pay 75% of his salary. That is nuts. Your paying his salary regardless, why settle?

Again, just my opinion.

Watson is the new QB of the Cleveland Browns - no question. I just thought that I'd post the facts that a few haters on this forum continue to distort. The constant bashing of Mayfield and distortion of the facts are the exact same childish immature acts some accuse Mayfield of doing.

Mayfield has exuded confidence in his ability to adjust to another new situation.

"I feel disrespected 100% because I was told one thing and they completely did another," Mayfield said on the "You Never Know" podcast on April 13. "That's what I'm in the middle of right now. And you know what? OK. I got my taste of it because I've had four different head coaches in four years, a bunch of different coordinators. I've had the highs, and they always come back."

His faith in his ability to persevere isn't entirely unfounded. Mayfield is only the fourth QB since 1950 to play under three different full-time head coaches in his first three career NFL seasons (minimum 20 starts). He is the only one of those quarterbacks to win the majority of his starts in that constant state of transition, as he played under Hue Jackson in 2018, Greg Williams (interim) in 2018, Freddie Kitchens in 2019 and Kevin Stefanski since 2020.


QBs with 3 different head coaches in first 3 seasons*

PLAYER_________TEAM (SEASONS)___________RECORD
Baker Mayfield____Browns (2018-20)___________23-22
Brandon Weeden__Browns/Cowboys (2012-14)____5-16
Blaine Gabbert____Jaguars (2011-13)___________5-22
Dennis Shaw______Bills (1970-72)_____________8-27-2

Since 1950. Minimum 20 starts. Excludes interim head coaches.

Despite those uniquely trying circumstances, Mayfield has been the Browns' most prolific passer through the first four seasons of any player's career with the team, throwing for the most yards (14,125) and touchdowns (92) -- Bernie Kosar (1985-88) ranks second in passing yards, and Pro Football Hall of Famer Otto Graham (1946-49) ranks second in passing TDs.

Mayfield's production took a step back in 2021 as he played through a torn labrum in his left, non-throwing shoulder and missed three games -- while his supporting cast also got hit with injuries, including running back Nick Chubb (out 3 games), running back Kareem Hunt (9 games), wide receiver Jarvis Landry (5 games), tight end Njoku (1 game), tight end Hooper (1 game), center Tretter (1 game), left tackle Jedrick Wills (4 games) right tackle Jack Conklin (10 games), and wide receiver OBJ (2 of the 8 games he was on the team) and that's just the starters. Peoples-Jones (3 games), Hubbard (16 games) missed games as primary backups or starters in addition to the previous 9 starters. In fact, the only position not hit with injury in 2021 was offensive guard where Bitonio and Teller started every game. Browns quarterbacks were under pressure on 26.9 percent of their drop-backs in 2020, the fifth-smallest rate in the NFL. That number increased to 30.5 percent in 2021, the ninth-smallest rate in the NFL. Since 2020, no quarterback's passer rating improved when they were under more pressure than their prior season. So, between his injury, his teammates' injuries and less time to throw, life under center was significantly more challenging for Mayfield last season.

Mayfield most looks like a top-10 quarterback when utilizing play-action, performing like one in 2020 when opposing defenses had to account for healthier versions of him, Chubb, Hunt, Landry and his offensive line. Running play-action passes allows quarterbacks to streamline their scanning of the field by giving them only two or three routes to choose from, and the threat of running the ball slows down the pass rush, which provides the quarterback more space in the pocket. Since one of Mayfield's bigger weaknesses is his stature (standing 6-foot-1 is on the shorter end for an NFL quarterback), his reliance on play-action makes a lot of sense. Here's a look at how he's fared in play-action since Stefanski took over in 2020:


____________________________2020 RANK_______2021 RANK
Play action Pass percentage______28.7% (8th)_______24.3% (19th)

Yards per attempt_______________9.5 (7th)________10.0 (2nd)

Passing TD-INT________________12-1 (6th)________6-4 (T-23rd)

Passer rating_________________121.9 (5th)_______102.1 (17th)

Having less time to operate in 2021, Stefanski and the Browns reduced the usage of Mayfield's play-action game for quicker-developing screen passes. The number of screens nearly doubled to 66, the 16th-most in the NFL, after only calling 39 screen pass attempts in 2020, which was tied for the sixth-fewest in the NFL that season. Mayfield led the NFL with 8.8 yards per screen pass attempt in 2021, and his 7.3 yards per screen pass attempt was the third-most in 2020. Neither led to as many fireworks for Mayfield and the Browns as play-action, as he only threw one passing touchdown on a screen over the last two seasons, a 33-yarder to rookie running back Demetric Felton in Week 2 against the Houston Texans last season.

According to the stats and haters on this forum, the Browns should have dumped Graham and Kosar after their first 4-years for performing poorer than Mayfield has in his first 4-years. That's been the problem with Cleveland for almost 3 decades now, they never allow a QB to grow even if he's the best they have ever had at this point in their career. The Browns hopefully have their franchise QB now in Watson. The hope going forward is he hasn't come to Cleveland to die as OBJ stated happens to players that come here. Good luck to Baker wherever he may end up.

I agree with you, FORT. If we pay most of his salary (I have seen "reports" stating that we would have to pay anywhere from 75% - 90%) then it makes no sense. Keep him, pay the entire amount, and then get a comp pick (it has been said a 3rd, which from what I gather no one has come close to offering). If we do trade him while picking up most of his salary, then we are not saving much with regards to the cap, just the piddly amount we did not pay.

I absolutely think that he has a place in the NFL and there are a handful of teams he could start for now. This is assuming a full recovery from his injury, which I have no doubts that he will fully recover.

But, getting to the original question, I see one of two things:

A) We keep him for the year, eat the 19M. He is never active. He moves on after the season and we get a comp pick.
B) Some team for which Baker would be an upgrade finally realizes that Cleveland is not backed into a corner and will neither cut him or pay a chunk of the salary in order to facilitate a trade. And this team also realizes that upgrading their QB is more important than showing solidarity with teams that are settled at the position. This team and Cleveland come to an agreement on the trade that is acceptable to both sides. Maybe this is a team with playoff expectations who lose their QB to injury?

Option A does not hurt the Browns, as some other teams may think. It does, however, hurt Baker. I have no desire to see that. I would like for this chapter to be done, but I do not want my team to have to bend over in order to make it happen.

Baker has the chips.
Watson has the money.
The Browns have...hope? a plan? a secret?

Maybe I read someone who was wrong - maybe I am mis-remembering - but I feel sure someone indicated that if Baker sits for a season he isn't eligible for a compensatory pick. We have a lot of educated posters - can someone verify / confirm the situation?

JMHO, I'd keep Baker, excuse him/ tell him NOT to come to training camp, wait for training camp or let season start- eat as much of his salary as needed to get most value for him....18mil is GONE, so getting any of it back makes sense....BUT don't get greedy. Go Browns!

Agreed - that would be good. I have seen on here that we could a 3rd round comp, and I have seen others say they were not sure. The answer to that would bring some clarity to the situation.

At this point I think there is no good answer. Keeping Baker will only add to the many distractions that already can not be avoided. I don't see that as a good answer. As it is the noise will never be drowned out on the narrative the Browns are already facing. Increasing that noise with all the added Baker drama the team has the choice to opt out of only further complicates things.

If you ignore all of that entirely, I guess you could keep him on the roster but away from the team and end up paying 18.8 million dollars for a third round compensation draft pick. From a strictly bottom line, money and return on investment standpoint that may be the best option.

I don't see anything I would consider a good solution. But as I said at the time, this FO isn't stupid. They knew the predicament trading for watson would create from every angle. Including being on the hook for Baker's 18.8 million. That money was factored into the watson deal from the very beginning. One might say it was Baked into the deal. Or one might not say that.

Keep him. Pay him to sit home. Collect the 3rd round pick next year.

There's a couple of problems with the Browns keeping Mayfield.

No one on this forum knows how many Browns players are really supporters of Mayfield. If Watson is the QB and Mayfield is gone, it stands to reason the team will support Watson outside of those who have issues with his off the field issues. With Mayfield still on the team, at a minimum you would get a split locker room. That would be bad for the team.

Another issue is the pending NFL suspension of Watson. Having Mayfield on the team with Watson suspended and then playing Brissett instead of Mayfield will again divide the locker room. The players will be questioning why the team isn't playing their best option at QB. The fans will be booing their azzes off either watching Mayfield sitting on the sidelines or worst yet being told to stay away.

Putting Mayfield on the PUP list creates trade issues. The longer he remains on the PUP list the less likely teams are going to pursue him. Any trade will depend on Mayfield passing a medical review from the trading teams doctors. If the Browns want value, then Mayfield has to be healthy. That would mean he has to be practicing which again will cause division in the locker room.

I'm pretty sure that teams will take a chance on Baker - no question. The question is how much turmoil are the Browns going to have holding on to him trying to squeeze the dollars out? If Watson gets suspended for more than 10-12 games before the Browns deal Mayfield - IMHO, the $hit will hit the fan in the locker room and with the fan base because they will expect Mayfield to be playing.

Best bet is to eat the salary and get Mayfield off the roster well before Watson's suspension gets announced.

And playing a healthy Mayfield if watson is suspended, presuming Mayfield plays like he did during the last half of 2020 and before his injury in 2021, it will make fans and the rest of the NFL wonder if the Browns made the right move in trading for a suspended watson. And the bet goes on.

Could you just imagine what would happen if watson is suspended and Baker leads us to the playoffs again? What a mess that would be for this FO.

Some good posts thus far and mostly on topic. Maybe someone can start another Baker thread that deal w/how good he is as a player. I want this one to deal w/what do you think the Browns should do w/him moving forward.

A couple of things: Milk's post about teams no longer being able to waive or reduce fines for Training Camp threw me for a loop. I looked it up and he is correct. They can do those things for Mini Camp, but not Training Camp. That throws a wrench into my preference. I now need more time to think about this.

888 asked a good question about whether or not we could receive a 3rd round compensatory pick if Baker sat all year and we paid his salary. I thought I read we could, but that question needs answered. Milk and cfrs are very knowledgeable about such things.

I did not know this. Thank you for pointing this out. This is an added wrinkle to the conversation, for sure.

So say what they should do but say nothing about the possible consequences those actions might lead to? Got it. lmao

I would be surprised if a team is not allowed to excuse a player... i.e. make it non-mandatory for them.

For the compensatory pick... he would be a drafted player who leaves in free agency, and the value of his expiring contract, and the size of what his new one is almost certain to be, nearly assures us of a 3rd round pick. I don't think any of us have the actual formulas used (though that one fan of Pittsburgh figured it out pretty well), but that's basically what it amounts to. To my knowledge, him sitting a year has no impact on the compensatory formula since he won't be sitting due to suspension or injury or whatever... he will be carried on the active roster, but simply asked to not show up.

Bring Baker back considering all we have is Jacoby Biscuit.

That is my understanding, as well. However, I have almost no knowledge about that part of the game.

Btw----to the board---I never once said to not mention consequences. I was talking about how good or bad Baker is as a player. We can have another thread about that. Of course the consequences of whatever decision is made is a huge talking point. The nonsense never ends. Always trying to create trouble.

I believe that if he is on the roster for the season, he accrues his extra year and the Browns could receive a compensatory. I believe that if he holds out for the year, he gets fined and doesn't accrue a season and he's essentially on the Browns next season unless we cut him. If he's on any of the different lists (PUP, IR, etc...), I'm sure of.

I may be wrong with the above, but I think that's how it works.

I prefer Jacoby Brisket.

[quote=PrplPplEater]I would be surprised if a team is not allowed to excuse a player... i.e. make it non-mandatory for them.

That was something I had wondered about. It only makes sense that the team would have the option to not request a player be in team activities if they so choose. Or even go so far as request they not show up for any team activities.

and the only way this goes down is with Baker on the active roster, but with his presence excused.

He'd count as part of the 53, he'd accrue his season, and we'd get a Comp Pick..... which sets the floor for all trades.

Think you might be about right.... Maybe the comp pick is only if he's on our active roster. Or something like that.... Stashing him on PUP might not earn the comp pick?

Someone smart will be along soon to verify

At some point before the season Baker will be traded. We will eat a portion of his contract.

It's asking the wrong question. ...
Let me say, yesterday I went back and listened to some of Mary Kay's podcasts from January 5, January 15, Janurary 16, and January 17th of 2022 on the subject, they were all, on ... well the subject of all of them ( as I encourage others to listen for reference) the subject of all of them, leads me to believe the Browns, well they didn't give Baker a fair shake imo, change for changes' sake.
And #2, they constantly, well they are parroting a wrong way of thinking the phrase, more bites at the apple, it's nonsense.
It's not nonsense, if you have nothing, nothing on your team, but when you have something on your team, you don't abuse your things development in the quest ( hey my q and 1 keys worked, must have dehumidified the keyboard)
.. You don't abuse your own players development in the quest to find more players whose development program may have started, (talking about the very start of the process, started at an inncy tinncy slightestly better level, seeking more bites of an apple, AFTER YOU ALREADY GOT YOUR GOOD APPLE BITE!
I mean, what are the Browns, ... Oh my Gosh! They are the,, They are never letting a seed grow, never let a seed sprout because they are constantly digging up the ground, ( day after day, not even a month) but day by day, digging up the ground to put down new seeds.

The Browns are, putting a cake in the oven for 2 minutes, pull it out, ... the cake is still wet, that sucks, that cake sucks I bet if we got a better cake brand we could put it in the oven for 2 minutes and get an award winning cake to eat like all the other NFL Franchises,
and then they don't even know what the ............######### they are doing wrong!!!!!!!

I mean, the question more should be, What to do with the Browns Coaching, GM, and dumbellery of analytics' ways of thinking.

It's too late to properly do with Mayfield what they should have done, which was re-sign him/ extend him to a 35-40 mill per year extension.
It's becoming too late to properly part with him for correct compensation, which is at least a 1 and a 2.

But! the Browns guardrails are ruining the Browns, and I'm quite confident history will inevitably prove out that statement with the evidence of time.

I mean, what were the blasted, hated bungles last year, of nothing else, they did it traditionally traditionally, they followed the traditional route. And what do I mean by traditional?
arrgh, ... cuss! There is so much history, so much evidence over decades, ... certain traditional things, things like
using your own guys,
Guys 28-30 years old, the NFL is not a 24 year olds league. The traditional approach to the dbs.
the traditional approach to developing your own group over time, keeping the team together, ... < in large regards to their defense.

The Browns
The Browns think they can assemble some, some, some 1988 nba Olympic dream team of stars who never played side by side and think it's going to work against NFL competition that has had time to have continuity and get together as groups.
And it doesn't work
and anyone / everyone already knew it wouldn't, because, oh I dunno, HISTORY, History of 50 years of the nfl.

The Browns are committed to being a hodge podge patchwork, and it's not going to work,
So the question is not what to do with Baker,
It's how do we get beyond these folks who are so blind to not see the real football because of their flawed analytics.
Or as Mac rightly proposed months ago.
Analytics? Had enough yet? Yes! stop it, go to traditional football and keeping a team together , for once, before I die.

I'd wait till a starting QB goes down and then trade him.
Hold on until the demand increases
Right now there is very little demand for him obviously
I don't understand why the Browns and Baker can't come to a compromise
The Browns tell Baker to take 10 million instead of 18 and they release him
Baker then can go to a team and learn their playbook and compete for a
Starting job .

The Browns have no leverage now. If they hold onto Mayfield until the season nears that might change so I would hold onto him until a team needs him up until the trade deadline. If no one comes knocking by then I would let him go.

I was hoping we could excuse Baker from TC, but Milk's info makes that impossible. Perhaps we can put him on the PUP list. Not sure how closely the NFL monitors injuries. His injury isn't really a deal, but hopefully we can slide him onto it.

After that, I would keep him on the roster and hope someone wants to trade for him during TC or during the season if their starter suffers an injury. If that doesn't occur, I would hold on to him and go for the Comp pick. No way would I release him before the season starts.

I’ll add my thoughts before I read any other posts.

Trade him for a conditional pick - for example, if he goes to the Pro Bowl with his new team, we get a third rounder or whatever. And try to eat as little of his salary as possible.

That might sound too hopeful, but we need to get him elsewhere, outta town for good.

Geesh. On a hunch, I felt like searching, What animals turn on their own.
7 Animals that eat their own. Polar Bears, Spiders, Hamsters, parasitic wasps, sand tiger sharks, and chickens. ( No mention of DT Browns fans even if only a portion.)

The Browns leverage is that Drew Locke and Sam Darnold are terrible.

Just from a business standpoint, it makes sense to me to keep him as long as you have to pay him. The only way to gain some sort of compensation is to have him under contract.

I understand the negatives. There are negatives in almost anything the team does. The only positive to be gained is to trade him. I hold on to that positive as long as possible. The next best thing is to work out a buy-out with Baker and his agent. I don't know how workable that is or not.