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One player I'd like to point out as depth or competition to Harris if he struggles is Ethan Pocic. I think he graded out decently overall at PFF and wouldn't be surprised if he is considered a better pass pro guy than run blocker but maybe someone has PFF stats that break down the two further.

So, I found this:

2. Good Run Blocker
Pro Football Focus ranked Pocic 11th among centers in 2021 in run blocking situations.
https://www.brownsnation.com/things-to-know-about-ethan-pocic/

So maybe it is the other way around.


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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One player I'd like to point out as depth or competition to Harris if he struggles is Ethan Pocic. I think he graded out decently overall at PFF and wouldn't be surprised if he is considered a better pass pro guy than run blocker but maybe someone has PFF stats that break down the two further.

Pocic:
Overall: 67.3
Run blocking: 76.0
Pass blocking: 43.8

Harris:
Overall: 70.0
Run blocking: 67.2
Pass blocking: 75.3

Not sure how many snaps for either at Center and Guard.

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Dawson Deaton was the Center we drafted. Here are his collegiate PFF grades:

Overall: 70.1
Run blocking: 74.8
Pass blocking: 70.5

I am unsure as to whether or not the grading scale is the same for pros and college.

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I wonder what the ranking would be from Sam if we knew Watson's suspension status?

Also, hasn't that logo been retired for years now? Haha.


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2022-23 Super Bowl Winner Odds
Odds courtesy of BetMGM. Correct at the time of publication and subject to change.

Team Futures Odds

Buffalo Bills +650
Tampa Bay Buccaneers +750
Kansas City Chiefs +900
Green Bay Packers +1100
Los Angeles Rams +1100
San Francisco 49ers +1400
Cleveland Browns +1800
Dallas Cowboys +1600
Denver Broncos +1600
Los Angeles Chargers +1600
Baltimore Ravens +2000
Cincinnati Bengals +2000
Arizona Cardinals +2500
Indianapolis Colts +2500
Tennessee Titans +3000
New Orleans Saints +3000
Las Vegas Raiders +3500
New England Patriots +3500
Minnesota Vikings +4000
Philadelphia Eagles +4000
Miami Dolphins +5000
Washington Commanders +5000
Pittsburgh Steelers +6600
Chicago Bears +8000
Seattle Seahawks +8000
Atlanta Falcons +10000
Carolina Panthers +10000
Jacksonville Jaguars +10000
New York Giants +10000
Detroit Lions +15000
New York Jets +15000
Houston Texans +25000

bonefish #1947498 05/29/22 10:27 AM
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Interestingly enough our odds were good last year too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/preseason_odds.htm

Cleveland Browns +1600 over/under - 10.5

Clearly the uncertainty about DW has a big impact on our odds this year and they would be shorter if he was playing the whole season - but only 5 other teams with shorter odds last year says there was a lot of faith in the Browns and Baker by Vegas before he got hurt.

I'm going to wait for news on any suspension and see the team play before I get too excited. Just bitten too many times with over ambitious pre-season optimism.

Last edited by mgh888; 05/29/22 10:29 AM.

The more things change the more they stay the same.
mgh888 #1947501 05/29/22 10:48 AM
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Odds and rankings at this time of year i do not understand.

But ok. The 49er's? How can they be that high up? Lance is one of the least experienced quarterbacks to ever come into the NFL.

Jimmy G said get me out of here. So, I do not get how they are ranked so high?

If DW is not suspended this season. The only team IMO who has a better roster than the Browns is Buffalo.

They have a great team and are very well coached. They have good playoff experience. Dyno defense and explosive offense. Allen is a dual threat and playing great football. I see them as the favorites of the AFC.

bonefish #1947502 05/29/22 11:12 AM
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About the Tackle depth... James Hudson specifically. I recall reading somewhere near the end of last season that Hudon's improvement was observable. I did a very brief search and didn't find the definitive article making this claim.
But I did find this

Not a slam dunk endorsement but some reason for optimism (I know that's a bad word here but clearly I don't care). The team took him in the fourth round last year so in his rookie year expectations should have been in line with where he was slotted. Being in year two with Callahan's coaching I'm optimistic that he will develop.

Former Bearcats Offensive Tackle James Hudson III a key Piece in Browns' Playoff Hopes
The right tackle started for an injured Jack Conklin against the Baltimore Ravens.
RUSS HELTMANDEC 13, 2021
CINCINNATI — James Hudson III is the next man up in Cleveland as the Browns push for an AFC North title. The former Bearcat offensive lineman is the Browns' new starting right tackle after Jack Conklin went down for the year with an injury.

The rookie didn't blow away the Baltimore Ravens front seven with his performance in Cleveland's 24-22 win on Sunday, but he held up just enough. According to PFF, Hudson finished with a 44.5 overall grade. That was second-worst on the Browns offensive line, and his team-low 28.7 run-blocking grade played the biggest part.

NFL teams don't pay tackles for great run blocking; they pay them for how well they protect the quarterback, and Hudson was much better on that front. He finished his 65 snaps with a 65.2 pass-blocking grade, including two pressures allowed and no sacks given up.


This game was Hudson's second NFL start after filling in for an injured Conklin in Week 6. He has appeared in eight games for the Browns this season and holds a 44.3 overall PFF grade. Cleveland is in a war with five other AFC teams at 7-6; wins against the Pittsburgh Steelers and Cincinnati Bengals over the final month of the season would give them a strong chance to capture the AFC North.


They'll be relying on the former UC mauler to slow down pass rushes along the way. Hudson and the Browns face Las Vegas this Saturday at 4:30 p.m. ET on NFL Network.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Browns Wire link
Breaking down the Browns' Week 17 grades from Pro Football Focus

Jeff Risdon
January 4, 2022 12:31 pm ET

Way Too Early Predictions: 2022 NFL Divisional Winners | Clear Play
The Pro Football Focus grades from the Cleveland Browns’ Week 17 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers nicely illustrate the sharp divide between Cleveland’s offense and defense. Nearly all the top grades were earned by players from Joe Woods’ defense, while the offense lagged considerably behind.

Right guard Wyatt Teller was the only Browns offensive player to top a score of 70, earning a 74.4 in his 71 snaps. The rest of the top-10 Browns grades from the game belonged to defensive players.

Cornerback A.J. Green tops the list with a fantastic 91.7 overall grade. He didn’t allow a single completion in 27 coverage snaps. Green’s score would have been even higher if not for a missed tackle.

The rest of the top 10 (min. 12 snaps):

S Richard LeCounte – 82.2
S M.J. Stewart – 81.3
LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah – 80.5
DE Myles Garrett – 78.8
LB Anthony Walker – 74.4
Teller – 74.4
CB Greg Newsome – 73.6
LB Sione Takitaki – 70.8
DT Malik McDowell – 67.7
It wasn’t all roses for the defense, however. Several thorny grades pockmarked the unit, notably along the line. Four linemen brought up the rear on the defense with grades below 50: Tommy Togiai, Malik Jackson, Jordan Elliott and Porter Gustin.

On offense, TE Austin Hooper earned the lowest grade and that was with PFF being charitable in only assessing one dropped pass on his ledger. Three Baker Mayfield passes hit both of his hands only to not result in a completion, with the last being an interception.

Right tackle James Hudson earned an overall grade of 50.9, a higher mark than expected. PFF liked his run blocking enough to counter the three sacks and five QB pressures he allowed in the game. Punter Dustin Colquitt also had the lowest-graded game of his 17-year career.Breaking down the Browns' Week 17 grades from Pro Football Focus.

bonefish #1947568 05/29/22 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
Tretter was a good center. But they have been prepping Harris for a couple years and he will be between to great guards. They brought in Pocic who has experience.
< Now when I read that my mind went right to the I988 bulls nba team for reference. (Who was that 3rd guard/forward behind pippen? ) ok.

It reads to me like, Tretter/Micheal Jordan was a good center,but they have been prepping Nick Harris/Horace Grant for a couple years and he will be between two great guards.
According to wiki-pedia, Horace Grant offered I3.4 points per game and II rebounds, in I988 or 90 for the Chicago bulls. So, it's the same, very similar...

As I figure... All the pressure is on Kevin Stefanski to see what the (heck) he can get out of this group in 2022, as it should be.
I mean, what more do you need Kevin Stefanski? What more do you need?

Somebody is going to have to be the buck-stopper when this offense falls (lays and egg) flat on it's face again. ( And Analytics ain't helping imo.) 5GLS frown ( < I fear the Browns will have a 5 game losing streak at some point this upcoming season.)


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Just so I'm understanding your analogy here. Tretter is Michael Jordan..... I mean it seems So obvious now you said it out loud, but I wanted to check.

Last edited by mgh888; 05/29/22 10:04 PM.

The more things change the more they stay the same.
mgh888 #1947577 05/29/22 10:52 PM
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Harris is Tretter, like Horace Grant is Michael Jordan, more specifically, just because they groom some player, doesn't necessarily mean they are able to take the next step, until they actually do. It seems since about 2006, nobody actually wins a spot in camp, they are all just given them.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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That's a more than fair observation ... dropping in MJ's name into any analogy doesn't seem to fit no matter if it's Tretter, Grant, Bitonio, Wills or Teller.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
bonefish #1948062 06/01/22 03:08 PM
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Are you saying you don't think Tretter is the greatest football player of all time? smile


People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Last edited by GratefulDawg; 06/04/22 12:34 PM.

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