DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Watson be the Browns Starting QB...continued

My guess was 8-10 games, as I understand it costs the Browns a contract year as well.

I’m still saying we could be rolling with Baker in 2022.

It's the unions job to protect the individual. That said, it's also their job to protect the member's image for which they represent. When you have peers openly question the high number of women involved (66 by last count by the NYTimes), it makes the NFL Players group as a whole look bad. Though I expect and believe that the NFLPA will "vigorously" defend Watson, I would be surprised if it went to the level of trying to compare it to other previous cases. To do that is to downplay the sheer number of civil claims which if they go south would be a very bad image for the union.

Though some may question an "unprecedented suspension" as to what is important when in reality, 24 civil suits and counting has entered an area of "unprecedented" that the league has ever seen. Does the NFL or the NFLPA really want to set the precedent that 24 plus civil claims is no more serious than single instance that had no criminal charges or civil suits?

The continued drip, drip, drip of more civil suits and still the possibility of criminal charges puts the NFL and the NFLPA in a situation neither wants to be in. Playing this wrong by either side will be a media nightmare the NFL and NFLPA has never seen before.

Spot on steve0255!

The moment when the media and the public opinion started to get involved in the length of the suspension was when the Browns rewarded Watson with a $230m contract, before then any punishment was mostly a internal question for the NFL.

It’s probably the case that the Browns made their own bed by structuring the contract the way they did with guaranteed money and only $1m in salary the first season. On top of that dynamite you have the comment from Watson’s lawyer that sexual activities after a massage session isn’t illegal and Watson’s square press conference where he sounded more or less unfazed of the severity of the allegations and why the media and the public opinion is upset. All this together make it difficult for the NFLPA to fairly argue why he shouldn’t have a lengthy suspension.

The numbers 26, 66 and 230 will probably be the decisive factors.

Thats goofy. If you are good enough to be paid, you are good enough to work. Why should a business be penalized by having to pay a person while they sit at home trying to sort out some infraction they may have committed? I don't care if it is a football player or Joe the pipefitter down at the plant. I can see maybe a few days, but anything over a week is bogus. I can see if a business elects to do so.

Just another thought.

If Watson wasn't on our team, the attitudes would be different. It would almost be to the point of not caring.

Deshaun Watson's Camp Reportedly Bracing for One Year Suspension

SEAN PENDERGAST JUNE 20, 2022 4:00AM
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After what's felt like an interminable 15 months of legal tussles, social media fireworks, and various strategic steps and missteps from attorneys and Deshaun Watson himself, we are getting indicators that this Watson's legal saga, from an NFL punishment perspective, may be reaching a conclusion.

According to Mark Maske of the Washington Post, the NFL, upon conclusion of its investigation, is going to argue that Watson receive a "significant" suspension for the lewd acts that he is accused of by 24 civil lawsuit plaintiffs in what was supposed to be a professional massage setting. In fact, one source from Watson's side said they are expecting the NFL to recommend a full season suspension.

Make no mistake, this determination by the league, if it does turn into a full season suspension for 2022, puts this trade firmly into "disaster" territory for the Browns, and makes Nick Caserio's entire process in moving Watson one of the most shining examples of patience and shrewdness in NFL GM history. More on this a minute.

For those who don't know how punishment is doled out in the NFL, there is a fairly new process that was agreed to between players and owners in the latest collective bargaining agreement in March 2020. Whereas prior to the latest CBA, commissioner Roger Goodell was judge, jury, and executioner, now it's a more neutral process.

The NFL, led by investigator Lisa Friel, does its investigative work. In this case, it literally took months and months because of the sheer volume of accusers. From there, once the investigation has concluded, Friel and her team turn over their findings and recommendation for punishment to a third party mediator by the name of Sue L. Robinson, a former U.S. district judge who is jointly appointed by the league and the NFL Players Association under the conduct policy.

Once Robinson issues her decision, that's where Goodell could come into play. If there is no punishment for Watson, then there can be no appeal from either side. The case is closed. However, if there is a punishment — and in Watson's case, it would be the shock of the century if there weren't — then either side can appeal, and Goodell can add to or subtract from the punishment as he sees fit. So Goodell still matters, but it is a more neutral process.

So let's peek ahead here, and play this thing out. If it IS a one year suspension for Watson, why is that and what does it all mean?
Why does a one year suspension make sense?
Well, I am going to preface this by saying that, regardless of the punishment, the one thing we will all never know is exactly how compelling the NFL's interviews were with the accusers and with Watson himself. If the suspension is for a full season, though, I think it's a pretty good indicator that alleged victims like Ashley Solis were just as convincing in private NFL interviews as Solis was on HBO's Real Sports. Beyond that, if Watson does get hit with a full season, it will be interesting to see if there is any reaction that a one year suspension is too LIGHT, given the fact that MLB hit Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer, accused of some pretty nasty stuff by multiple women, with a TWO season suspension, which for all intents and purposes, is a career ender for him. That's actually a good segue into this next question...

What does a one year suspension mean for Watson and the Browns?
In a purely 2022 window, it means the obvious — the Browns are going to be a much worse football team in 2022 than they thought they would be when they consummated this deal for Watson. They go from being a likely double digit win team to maybe a 5 or 6 win team with Jacoby Brissett at quarterback. Beyond this season, though, a one season suspension would be disastrous in the big picture for the Browns in two ways. First, they've already paid most of Watson's 2022 income, $45 million to be exact, in the form of a signing bonus. That money is now mostly spread out over the next four seasons on their salary cap, and Watson's cap hit is an astronomical $55 million from 2023 through 2026. Furthermore, the last time Watson played in a real NFL game was January 3, 2021. If he comes back to start in Week 1 of the 2023 season, that will be 980 days in between starts. 980 DAYS! That is not optimal, especially when I think there are major questions as to how he recovers psychologically from being so despised around the league. More on that in a moment.

What does a one year suspension mean for the Houston Texans?
OK, now for the good news, and that news is for YOU, Texan fans! If Watson is suspended for a full season as those close to him believe could happen, then the 2023 first round pick that the team received in the deal has a really good chance of being a top 10 pick. If we believe that the Browns, with Brissett as their starter, are a six win team, then know this — the Bears were 6-11 in 2021 and received the seventh pick in the draft. (Actually, they traded that pick to the Giants, but you get my point.) So that pick, along with the Texans' pick of their own, which should be a top five pick, has them sitting pretty to do whatever they want in the 2023 draft. Again, Nick Caserio crushed this whole transaction. Kudos, Nick!

Does Deshaun Watson ever recover, from an image standpoint, from this?
After watching Michael Vick emerge from two years in prison for some of the horrific stuff he did, I won't rule out any NFL comeback anymore. NFL fans (including me) are fickle people, who are heavily swayed by good play on the field. I guess the difference between Vick and Watson is that Vick never said he didn't do the things he was convicted for. Watson is essentially calling 24 accusers (and likely more coming) liars. If the NFL rules that he's done for a full season, then that's pretty damning. The NFL's investigative process is not a court of law, but it does sway public opinion. Watson seems to be trying like crazy to mitigate damage, mentioning "community" every chance he gets on the rare occasions he's spoken publicly, but it's not working. Not outside Cleveland, at least.

Listen to Sean Pendergast on SportsRadio 610 from 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. weekdays. Also, follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/SeanTPendergast and like him on Facebook at facebook.com/SeanTPendergast.

No, I wasn't stalking you. I check the Who's Online from time to time to see if anyone is responding to a certain thread. I saw the Kraft thread after your name and I wasn't familiar w/it. So, I clicked on it. That's not "whack." But, name calling is fun when it's not you.

And no, posting what you just did does not hurt my feelings. I have been consistent in that I don't think having sex is a bad thing.

Your third mental health reference used as a weapon.

Funny - the response is "I don't think having sex is a bad thing" .... No mention of the fake equivalence and deflection (some would call it a lie) of trying to frame the Kraft Case about sex trafficking.

No mention of the fake debate that a pro athlete who has spent his entire life entitled and pampered from H.S to Clemson to the NFL and who has just been handed the largest guarantee in NFL history and trying to make this a race issue.

No mention of the non-consensual evidence and testimony.

But more shilling for Watson.

j/c:


Thirty-three players have been suspended by the NFL over the last 15 years, including Sheldon Richardson for speeding. I wonder how many owners have been suspended? Looking at the NFL Personal Conduct Policy, it includes: "Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business."

I don't trust the NFL to handle these situations fairly. I, and others, especially in the black community believe that there is a lack of equity in how the NFL doles out punishment. Some of us believe that the NFL should not be in a position to act in legal matters. We believe this because while the NFL has included the above statement into their Personal Conduct Policy, their decisions have been grossly one-sided in how they treat personal conduct issues for owners vs players.

Once again, Watson's defense teams should push for full disclosure in all these cases. Insist that all the details of these cases, including Snyder's, be made public knowledge and allow the public to decide how much "confidence" we have in the NFL's decision makers.

Here are some comments from Stephen A Smith that I agree with:










Excerpts copied from this article: https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/news-stephen-a-smith-slams-nfl-deshaun-watson-investigation

Imagine how high that would be if I pointed out in every post where the duck quacks like one. If you can't control your own behavior and you decided to use my name than that issue is yours to cope with. Enjoy!

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

If Watson and the Browns walk away unscathed they will have both been very lucky. The FO did a horrible job with this whole thing and there should be some repercussions, however it looks like they got lucky!

Lamp someone here once posted that the one thing pro athletes will not tolerate is messin with his money. Think about this. If our management gives baker away for basically nothing and we start a qb this entire season who is significantly inferior to baker what does that do to our chances of making the playoffs and making a postseason run? I think most of our roster would be fine with baker at qb. If coach did not like baker asking why our rookie rt was left on an island with a great pass rusher opposite him, resulting in multiple sacks, oh well he needs to get over it.

What if you are a more experienced player toward the end of your career. do you want to throw away a potential playoff chance because someone does not like something baker said in the past? Not likely.

If deshaun was playing baker would have to go. If he is suspended we are a better team with baker at qb than with jacoby. That is not in question. Our leadership and baker’s agent need to pull this together and give us a chance at making this a good season. Remember Baker, you will get a super bowl ring too!!

So Team Watson (and supposedly NFLPA’s) new defense strategy is to attack wealthy white NFL owners to show injustice in the legal system between a black $230m NFL player and a white billionaire owning a NFL team.

The poor black man will only be rewarded with a $44m compensation by doing absolutely nothing compared to the old retired billionaire who also probably earn a [censored] load of money doing almost nothing. I’m 100% sure that every ordinary American NFL viewer can relate to that injustice.

They somehow think it's better to make it a black thing than a woman thing. Over half of our nations population are women. Yet somehow they think this is a sound strategy. The women are the victims here but they are trying their best to take all of the focus in another direction. Are you really surprised by that?

Again...I don't think the NFLPA's actions are about "getting Watson off" (oooooooh...bad choice of words....) lets add the words "the hook"....that's better.....I think they are just going to use this as a springboard for attacking their real agenda......which is the double standard and inequalities of the enforcement of the Conduct Policy. Watson is just the match....the policy enforcement is the fire...JMO

But the strength of this for the NFLPA is how guarded the NFL is concerning the details of any investigations or workings of these decisions. They do these things to jump ahead of the issues to try and control the information. And they are fanatical about not letting any of this information out. But if this becomes a legal matter...which the NFLPA wants to force...all of this information is going to come out.

Now I don't agree that we let the public decide how the NFL is handling these cases as information coms out...(Well that isn't 100% correct....outside of deciding with their money by buying tickets and merchandise....Same with Watson...no one forcing you to cheer for him or buy his Jersey) But rather let the legal processes take their courses...

It's the obligation and duty of every union to stand behind the people they represent. They'll go to any length to do so. I'm not saying that as if it's a bad thing. Just pointing out that's the very reason people have unions. To fight for them from both a financial standpoint and against any type of punishment from their employers.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-nfl-probably-seek-one-200153006.html

Interesting article and I believe Maske may be on to something.

"Although Maske’s story doesn’t mention paid leave, that remains a viable alternative. First, that process doesn’t involve Judge Robinson. Second, it defers a final decision until all litigation ends. Third, it gives Watson a clear incentive to settle the cases pending against him."

1) Trying to determine an appropriate suspension without knowing the totality of the number of suits and/or convictions in the civil trials or still potential criminal charges to be levied is a crap shoot at best. Making a determination later to add suspension time or worst yet discovering that too much suspension was levied would be very bad for all concerned.

2) It takes the decision-making process out of the hands of Judge Robinson who more than likely does not have all the information available since it's an on-going investigation.

3) It takes Watson off the field but doesn't penalize him financially. It also gives Watson paid time off to prepare for his cases.

4) Delaying a final decision on an appropriate suspension until all the litigation ends eliminates the gray area that is hovering over this situation. In addition, it would make the penalty for any Watson convictions to be something of substance. Since Watson's legal team requested to delay the litigation until 2023, allowing Watson to play is rewarding his refusal to address the issues confronting him in a timely fashion. The Browns and Watson agreed to a contract that was clearly structured to protect his earnings from a 2022 suspension. The NFL putting Watson on paid leave where he gets paid the measly amount that Watson and the Browns clearly used to avoid financial penalties in 2022 and use the ultimate findings to suspend Watson in 2023 and beyond where he is held financially accountable for his actions would be more appropriate. I think the Browns FO intentionally tried to bamboozle the NFL with the contract structure and the NFL knows it.

5) 26 or more settlements may be an incentive for Watson but there will still be some type of penalty phase. What that will be is yet to be determined.

That is an incorrect assessment of what the defense strategy is all about. It's not about the "legal system." The legal system has not convicted Watson of anything.

The strategy is to reveal that the NFL has not treated the owners and players on equal footing when doling out punishments in Personal Conduct cases. Perhaps you and others are so desperate to see Watson punished that you are blind to the fact that there is a wildly disturbing disparity on how personal conduct issues are handled by the NFL depending upon whether the accused is a player or an owner.

Yeah, the infractions are all the same. lol


At least you used the qualifier "perhaps" on it this time rather than state is a fact which up until now has been telling a lie


Or perhaps you can't seem to see this is different with far more accusers and a pattern we haven't seen in these other cases. Or maybe you are making the argument that since the NFL recognizes they haven't been nearly as harsh as they should be when it comes to the abuse of women, they can't possibly correct that now because it involves a player.

I mean if we're making up "perhaps" scenarios we may as well cover all the bases here.

I mentioned how I feel about the situation on a previous post. That being said, if I were the FO, coaches, etc. I would plan for the worst; a 2022 season without DW playing. Start giving JB as much coaching and reps as possible. We'll need him to learn as much as he can and play as well as he can.

Did I miss a decision by the NFL?

No. At least not that I am aware of.

The following article is from an attorney. What he is saying is possible good news in regards to Watson playing this season, especially given the latest news that the NFLPA has provided in behalf of Watson's defense. The NFL better be careful.

Why root or for a team that's about to spend 249 million dollars on 2 quarterbacks, that's real close to
a Quarter of a Billion Dollars on 2 quarterbacks who won't take a snap in September or October of the NFL season,
IF EVERYONE IS HEALTHY!
AND WE HAVE TO WATCH JACOBY FREAKING BRISSETT?

Oh my Gosh they have their Act together in a way, SO unprecedented.
" Loyd?? A Tad!!! A Tad!!, You drove almost a 6th of the way, across the country, in the Wrong Direction! "

" Well Excuse me Mr. PERFECT!!"
You have an NFL Franchise, and you don't even have a quarterback.
*****!!! Dishone Kizer????? Again??? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my gosh. No!
They'd have a better chance with Josh Cribbs, or 2012 Josh Cribbs starting the whole game at QB, than any team is going to be afraid of Jacoby Brissett.
If We have to watch 1 game of Jacoby Brissett, and everyone is healthy, NO!
Tune me OUT, air packer games, Air freaking packer games in Columbus Ohio, just to protest,
I'm sick of this 30 years of being DUMPED ON!
edit: gimme a minute!

jc
Haven't seen this on here, but if so sorry about the repeat.

DA on Watson Case

Texas DA who faced Deshaun Watson: ‘Wait and see’ whether justice is served
By Ryan Dunleavy
June 19, 2022 12:46pm

Deshaun Watson was not indicted. He also was not exonerated.

That’s what Harris County (Texas) District Attorney Kim Ogg wants everyone to remember about the gray area surrounding Watson as civil lawsuits accusing the Cleveland Browns quarterback of sexual misconduct continue to mount. A Harris County grand jury did not indict Watson — the former Houston Texans star — on nine criminal complaints in March, and that verdict cleared a path for his trade to the Browns.

In a legal context, failing to meet the burden of proof is not the same as declaring innocence, however. Appearing on “The Mike Meltser Podcast” dedicated to sports law, Ogg wrapped up the interview by saying, “We respect our justice process. I love the law. It’s designed to get to the truth. That’s really what people want. I don’t think as a culture we can live with injustice. Remember, a grand jury no bill is not an exoneration. People, even when they clear the criminal justice system, often face accountability and repercussions in other parts of our legal system.”
Watson still faces 24 civil lawsuits from his former massage therapists and likely punishment from the NFL.

“I think to determine whether justice was done in this case you’re going to have to wait and see how it all comes out on the civil side of things and then through the NFL on the administrative side of things,” Ogg said. “And then people will determine whether that’s justice.

I don't envy the people that have to make decisions on a person's guilt or innocence. I am sure the GJ made a wise decision to not indict based on the evidence presented. The thing that some are overlooking is he could still be indicted if additional evidence surfaces. Being a Browns fan is not for the weak

The first bit of good news Browns fans have gotten since this entire mess showed up in Cleveland. Maybe, just maybe Watson might see the field for the Browns...we can hope..!

Tony Buzbee: 20 of the 24 cases against Deshaun Watson have settled

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 21, 2022, 11:59 AM EDT
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Most of the women suing Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson have agreed to a settlement.

Tony Buzbee, the attorney representing 24 female massage therapists who say Watson engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct during their sessions, announced today that 20 of his clients have settled.


“Today I announce that all cases against Deshaun Watson, with the exception of four, have settled,” Buzbee said in a statement. “We are working through the paperwork related to those settlements. Once we have done so, those particular cases will be dismissed. The terms and amounts of the settlements are confidential. We won’t comment further on the settlements or those cases.”

Settling the cases is a significant step for Watson as he attempts to resume his NFL career, but it in no way means he won’t be suspended by the NFL. What’s beneficial for Watson is that the terms of the settlements will be confidential, making it more likely that Watson can stem the flow of negative information that has done significant damage to his reputation.

But until all 24 cases are settled, Watson remains in jeopardy. And Buzbee indicated that the first plaintiff, Ashley Solis, and three other plaintiffs are continuing to move forward.

“Ashley Solis is one of the heroes of this story. Her case has not settled and thus her story and that of the other three brave women will continue. I look forward to trying these cases in due course, consistent with other docket obligations and the court’s schedule,” Buzbee said.

The NFL’s investigation of potential violations of the league’s personal conduct policy is ongoing.

Sounds consistent with a report I talked about earlier about a offer was made and all but 4 wanted to settle, but the Watson camp made it a all or nothing deal.

Looks like the Watson camp decided getting the window dressing out of the way was the way to go to concentrate on the meat and potato's.

Freakin’ finally! I guarantee the settlements are WAY more expensive than they would have been a few months ago but at least someone is Watson’s camp got thru to him that this was inevitable and the price was only going up. That they’re confidential tells me that they are probably obscene numbers. As it probably should be. Just eat it and move on.

It doesn’t sound like the main plaintiff is one of the settlers but she’ll probably come around at some point. The same reality for Deshaun is true for her, a trial is a dice roll.

This was literally the only thing he could do to positively effect the potential length of the suspension. This takes a lot of pressure off the league. Good chance it’s not “open ended” now.

If I were on Watson's defense team or one of the attorneys for the NFLPA, I would be pushing hard for ZERO games, but I might be willing to accept 4 games just to appease the masses. Anything more, I'd go all in on suing the NFL for unfair practices in regards to how they handle the Personal Conduct Policy that is actually quite clear and specific.

Well of course you would...

The league has to consider public sentiment. This not being an actual criminal legal issue meant the court of public opinion is the biggest factor by far. I think if they come back with 4 games it’s going to look very bad, like the league is very out of step with wider world and not pro woman. I think they still have to placate that. I would still not be surprised by a year. But I feel like there’s a possibility of less. Less than 8 would really surprise me.