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so is matt rhule gonna be the problem if mayfield doesn't make it in carolina?


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
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I did feel that Baker would've (eventually) been able to get it done.

You are far more objective than most of the other Baker fans who post a lot. So, I want to ask you in particular a few questions.

Do you really believe that if the NFL believed in Baker that no team would have been willing to give up more than what Carolina gave up? Do you really believe the idea being floated around that the Browns had no leverage? You don't believe that a team would have pursued him w/more gusto if they really thought he could get it done?

I was hoping oober would answer my questions because while he is a Baker fan, he is also objective. And I was curious to see his thoughts.

My takes:

1. The Browns would have never moved on from Baker had they believed that he could get it done. Why spend all those draft picks and money on a guy w/all the baggage that comes w/Watson if you believe the guy in your building can "get it done?"

2. If NFL teams believed that Baker could get it done, they would have traded for him.

3. The idea that the Browns had no leverage is absurd to me. I don't see how anyone who is rational can even think such a thing. What leverage did the Texans have? What leverage did the Eagles have w/Wentz? If teams viewed Baker as a guy they thought they could win the Super Bowl with, they would have fought each other to trade for him. If Joe Burrow demanded a trade today, would the other NFL teams not try to trade for him because the Bengals wouldn't have any leverage? Justin Herbert? Lamar? Josh Allen? I could go on and on and on........but the "no leverage" angle is ludicrous. Teams will spend huge resources in QBs they believe can "get it done" no matter if a team has leverage or not.

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I watched the sports talk shows this morning and I heard the opinions of a good 12 people about Bakers trade. Out of that # only 2 thought Baker would become successful with his new team. This doesn't mean they're right it's just an opinion, but it does show what most think of him. I like Baker and wish him well. I hoped he could be our QB for 10 years when we drafted him. Not to be.

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I wish Baker nothing but the best. He gave it his all and he made watching the Browns enjoyable again. Beat the Squeelers and knocked them out of the playoffs. The thing I like best about that is it made Big Ben cry.
Don't be surprised if he don't light us up in game one of the season. He will be wanting revenge cause he isn't happy the way the Browns did him. i think they did him dirty too but that's the business side of football I guess.
I hope the front office made the right move and Watson gets to play this season. Baker....if you read these, thank you for giving 100% to our team and I for one wish you the very best in your career.

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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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We've reached the airing of the dirty laundry portion of the divorce!

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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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And it's gonna be an ugly one I suspect.

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More from the Jason Lloyd article....

The comment ESPN reported that the Browns wanted an “adult in the room” at quarterback is an awful look for the franchise given Watson’s current predicament, but it isn’t entirely untrue.

Mayfield was widely viewed as childish and immature. His behavior annoyed teammates and divided the locker room. He was often difficult to coach.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
More from the Jason Lloyd article....

The comment ESPN reported that the Browns wanted an “adult in the room” at quarterback is an awful look for the franchise given Watson’s current predicament, but it isn’t entirely untrue.

Mayfield was widely viewed as childish and immature. His behavior annoyed teammates and divided the locker room. He was often difficult to coach.

Clearly a manufactured lie being told by a board member who hates Baker.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by Milk Man
More from the Jason Lloyd article....

The comment ESPN reported that the Browns wanted an “adult in the room” at quarterback is an awful look for the franchise given Watson’s current predicament, but it isn’t entirely untrue.

Mayfield was widely viewed as childish and immature. His behavior annoyed teammates and divided the locker room. He was often difficult to coach.

Clearly a manufactured lie being told by a board member who hates Baker.

Jason Lloyd loves Baker as much as you do. He's written lots about him - never a kind word even when he played well. I believe anyone who reads the Athletic will vouch for that.

Last edited by mgh888; 07/07/22 03:26 PM.

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Originally Posted by Swish
so is matt rhule gonna be the problem if mayfield doesn't make it in carolina?

It might be the offensive line. Or the receivers. Or special teams. Or the defense. Or the play-calling. Or the running game.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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All of the above?

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Would I be wrong in stating this is also not the greatest look for KS?

edit: I'm talking about the tweet regarding "be careful what you wish for" and the meetings thereafter

Last edited by oobernoober; 07/07/22 03:57 PM. Reason: clarify

There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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You wouldn't be but some people don't want to hear that.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted by Swish
so is matt rhule gonna be the problem if mayfield doesn't make it in carolina?

It might be the offensive line. Or the receivers. Or special teams. Or the defense. Or the play-calling. Or the running game.

See - this is just hating on other posters who objectively look at the team and how each position impacts other positions. It's entirely feasible and historically what has happened - Baker can play badly, and his play can be impacted by other positions. Baker has also played well and been helped by the play calling and running game etc. . . . What Baker has never had - is a guy like J Chase to simply toss the ball up in the air in the generally vicinity of and have Chase pull it in.


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What tweet did I miss.

Found it. Not a good look.

Last edited by mgh888; 07/07/22 04:05 PM.

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Originally Posted by GratefulDawg

How odd .... going from a rating of 51+ to 17 and change is proof the injury didn't impact Baker. LOL.


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Are you saying that Stefanski actually said "be careful what you wish for?" I didn't read it that way. But, I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by GratefulDawg

rofl why anyone would back this poor example of a NFL QB is beyond my comprehension of all reason.


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No, but (allegedly) Stefanski had changed his approach to Baker in meetings going forward because Baker got miffed coach missed that meeting. Not the point of the tweet, and probably doesn't rise to the same level as Baker's side of that, but still not a great look and I point it out because it's something that would fly under the radar.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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I think there was tension between the two. Baker called out Stefanski after the Baltimore and Pittsburgh games. I also think that Baker blaming the injury for his play wore on those who knew what the doctors were saying about the injury. To this day, people are blaming Stefanski for playing Baker. The drama gets old after awhile.

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Zero leverage


Early on that was true. As things moved along, the Browns did have some leverage. The start of camp became the leverage on two front's.

First, one would think if a team wanted Baker as a starter, they would need to bring him in for all of camp. Waiting until after camp started would delay that process.

As camp came closer, it started to put the pressure on Baker who wanted to be in camp once it opened. After the browns gave permission for Carolina to contact, Baker agreed to reduce is salary $3.5 mil. I think he can make it back from Carolina in the way of incentives.

So the Browns did have leverage even if not in a traditional sense. It wasn't all that much since it was a conditional 5th rounder , but that was better than it was looking a month ago....


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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The Baker Fan Club , all they bring up.is his completion % in the 1st
2 games vs cupcake secondaries and his injury to his
To non throwing arm. They can't defend this recent report
Which has been common knowledge all along

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Aaron Rodgers called out KS after the packer game! So did both Mannings during the game.



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What does that have to do w/Baker and Stefanski's relationship?

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Think it thru get back to me



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Elite Pro QB's opinions - both current and former - do not count, especially when they go against the desired narrative.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think there was tension between the two. Baker called out Stefanski after the Baltimore and Pittsburgh games. I also think that Baker blaming the injury for his play wore on those who knew what the doctors were saying about the injury. To this day, people are blaming Stefanski for playing Baker. The drama gets old after awhile.

rofl

So now we have a source that knows what the doctor's were saying. OMG. It gets worse. He's not on the team and the lies and hate are spewing.


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j/c:



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Browns' Baker Mayfield era with final verdict on QB: Too short, too slow, too cocky | Opinion
Marla Ridenour
Akron Beacon Journal






Quarterback Baker Mayfield proved to be exactly what we thought he was going into the 2018 NFL draft.

Too short, too slow and too cocky.

As the Mayfield era in Cleveland closed with the Browns trading him to the Carolina Panthers on Wednesday, the No. 1 overall pick leaves a legacy of inconsistency.

Every day with Mayfield was a rollercoaster ride. He overcame his flaws as a rookie and in the second half of the 2020 season. He pulled the franchise from the abyss of 1-31, which included the 0-16 debacle that set up former general manager John Dorsey to select the Heisman Trophy winner from Oklahoma.

In 2020, the Mayfield-led Browns made their first playoff appearance since 2002 and recorded their first postseason victory since Jan. 1, 1995.


The case against Baker Mayfield
But 1½ good seasons out of four does not a franchise quarterback make. There were too many potential game-winning drives in the fourth quarter botched, too many uncatchable passes, too few victories with so much talent around him.

Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam opted for a dramatic upgrade in a controversial trade for the Houston Texans’ Deshaun Watson on March 18 despite 22 civil lawsuits pending against the quarterback for alleged sexual misconduct during massage appointments. That number reached 24, though 20 have since been settled.


Mayfield went 30-31 (including playoffs) with the Browns. Watson, a three-time Pro Bowl selection, was 28-25 with the Texans with a less-talented supporting cast.

The league caught up with Mayfield in 2021, when he tried to play through a completely torn labrum in his left shoulder suffered in Week 2. At a diminished physical capacity because of multiple injuries, Mayfield struggled. Many of his passes sailed high, and his receivers and tight ends weren’t willing to put their bodies in harm’s way to go up and get them.


Entering the draft, Mayfield measured 6-foot- ⅝, and that proved crucial when he didn’t have the athleticism to run away from defenders at the next level.

Browns coach Kevin Stefanski and general manager Andrew Berry found out that Mayfield was not Drew Brees, a 13-time Pro Bowler for the San Diego Chargers and New Orleans Saints despite his 6-foot stature. Mayfield was not the athletic equal of 5-foot-11 Russell Wilson, who relied on escapability to post a 104-53-1 record as a Seattle Seahawks starter before he was traded to the Denver Broncos in March. A third-round pick, Wilson ran the 40-yard dash in 4.55 seconds at the 2012 NFL combine; Mayfield posted a 4.84.


Baker Mayfield's contract limited his trade market
But Mayfield’s physical limitations weren’t the only reason he became the quarterback virtually no one wanted, just like most of the 29 other starters who preceded him in Cleveland.

That was largely due to Mayfield’s $18.858 million guaranteed salary in 2022. In the trade to Carolina, which is pending a physical, the Browns agreed to pay about $10.5 million of that and received a conditional fifth-round draft pick in 2024.

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But the salary wasn't the only hurdle in finding a trade partner. Mayfield’s lack of leadership, his off-putting swagger and cockiness that so intrigued Dorsey did not play well in the Browns’ locker room.

Going into the 2018 draft, the biggest questions about Mayfield concerned his maturity. His time at Oklahoma included an arrest on charges of public intoxication, disorderly conduct and fleeing, his flag-planting at Ohio State and a crotch-grabbing incident at Kansas.


Dorsey cast those aside, gambling that Mayfield would grow up.

We’re still waiting.

After last season, Browns players spoke out, saying their unity and brotherhood were not tight enough.

“I think the leaders on this team separated the offense and defense — not in a bad way, but defense worry about the defense, offense worry about the offense. Maybe moving forward we’ve got to try to kinda mesh a little bit more together,” safety John Johnson III said.

Rookie linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah said the atmosphere was not nearly as close as it had been at Notre Dame.

“That’s something that I would really like to see is just this team to be a team and the brotherhood to be a brotherhood, just the unit to be a unit,” Owusu-Koramoah said in January.

The quarterback sets the tone and lays the groundwork for that bond, even if others have a strong voice.

The report from ESPN's Chris Mortensen that the Browns want "what they consider an adult" at quarterback was telling, even though Jimmy Haslam denied the remark came from ownership.

Some teammates may have held the broken relationship with receiver Odell Beckham Jr. against Mayfield, as three-time Pro Bowler Beckham forced his way out of Cleveland in early November. That may have been a bigger factor than Mayfield’s poor performance as the defense played its best in the final seven games.

Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield (6) stands during an NFL football practice in Berea, Ohio, Wednesday, Aug. 4, 2021.
Mayfield, seeking a new team after the Watson trade and the signings of quarterbacks Jacoby Brissett and Josh Dobbs, did himself no favors in terms of convincing potential employers he could be a team-building leader with his comments on the “Ya Neva Know: You Know What I Mean?” podcast.

“It’s a huge battle within the locker room in my position being a quarterback,” Mayfield said on the podcast. “Some of these guys don’t play the game because they love it, they’re playing it to get a retirement fund. They’re making tons of a million dollars and they don’t care about winning.


“How can I get the best out of people that are making a s--- ton of money? I could always motivate people when we weren’t making money. That was easy. I can get in their face; I can do all that … You’re trying to get to that level.”

It turned out that there was a shelf life when Dorsey spoke of Mayfield being a “Pied Piper” whom his Oklahoma teammates followed. Mayfield’s crotch-grabbing, flag-planting braggadocio fell flat with Browns, despite the backing he received from some of them publicly.

Beckham fleeing to the Super Bowl champion Los Angeles Rams and the silence of his close friend and fellow Browns receiver Jarvis Landry afterward likely painted a more accurate picture.

Considering what is expected of a quarterback selected first overall, Mayfield was a major disappointment. Such picks are supposed to be the cornerstone of the franchise for a decade or more, one who puts his team in playoff contention every season. If we hadn't seen the likes of Johnny Manziel, Mayfield might be considered a bust, but ending a 17-year playoff drought takes that label out of the equation.

But in terms of the talent surrounding Mayfield, he was supported like none of the 29 others who preceded him. One of the league’s best offensive lines. The best one-two running back tandem in Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt. Pro Bowl receivers in Beckham and Landry. A leader for the defense in three-time Pro Bowl end Myles Garrett. A shutdown cornerback in two-time Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, the fourth overall pick in 2018 recently rewarded with the kind of contract extension Mayfield failed to earn.


Four coaches (including interim Gregg Williams) in four years didn’t help Mayfield, but that excuse can’t cover the flaws in his game and in his locker room persona.

How Mayfield fares going forward will be fascinating. Apparently, the Haslams and Berry have no fear that the Browns will be squaring off against him in a Super Bowl. The two teams will meet in the season opener in Carolina on Sept. 11.

Mayfield may turn out to be Andy Dalton, a decent quarterback who can take a team to the playoffs, but not elite enough to win the Lombardi Trophy. There’s also the possibility that Mayfield is just another NFL backup like many who have lined up under center for the Browns.

It’s not a bad life, as Derek Anderson and Colt McCoy would attest. For Mayfield, acceptance of that will require some growth — personally, not physically.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...and-browns-carolina-panthers/7823382001/

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That article says a lot and tells the story.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted by Swish
so is matt rhule gonna be the problem if mayfield doesn't make it in carolina?

It might be the offensive line. Or the receivers. Or special teams. Or the defense. Or the play-calling. Or the running game.

See - this is just hating on other posters who objectively look at the team and how each position impacts other positions. It's entirely feasible and historically what has happened - Baker can play badly, and his play can be impacted by other positions. Baker has also played well and been helped by the play calling and running game etc. . . . What Baker has never had - is a guy like J Chase to simply toss the ball up in the air in the generally vicinity of and have Chase pull it in.

No, not hating on the objective posters.


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You know... I did not dislike Baker but at the end of the day, Baker could not get the job done! When you look at our division, you have 2 other teams with legit QBs. A third (Pit) that will have offense problems but a D that will come to play. We could not afford to have a average QB.

For every good play Baker would make, an interception was sure to follow!. How many batted down balls did we see, how many mis-reads or never looking to his back-side? And even when the Browns were in 4 or 5 wide and needed a drive, did Baker lead us on that drive??.. The answer is no!

So at the end of the day, Stefanski, Berry and the Haslams made the decision to upgrade the position. Baker will go to Carolina and have to win the job.. BTW.. he will have to beat Darnold who has been in that offense for atleast a year.. so Baker probably wont start either.

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Agreed. I liked Baker and wanted him to succeed here. WE needed to upgrade at QB that's why the decision was made to get DW. I had some reservations about the move because of all the baggage that was coming with it. As I stated previously, we're going to have to get through whatever discipline comes down but after we get by that we may come out of this in very good shape for the next 3, 4 years or so.

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Originally Posted by DogNDC
Baker will go to Carolina and have to win the job.. BTW.. he will have to beat Darnold who has been in that offense for atleast a year.. so Baker probably wont start either.

I have an enormous wager to make with anyone who wants to bet - assuming both are healthy - that Baker starts week 1 vs the Browns. Darnold is not very good. You might agree with the hatchet job article - but BM is > than SD.


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It is Hardly a "trade" since the Browns got next to nothing in return. Just saying.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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... Not to underlook, what has been overlooked I'll say.
Baker will benefit, I'll say, from leaving the AFC North. There are few places / divisions that are harsher top to bottom on opposing quarterbacks, and their stats, than the AFC North, so, part of my thinking will say,
If The Mayfield Browns were winning 8-9 games with Mayfield in the AFC North, then the Mayfield led Panthers,
that don't have to play Baltimore twice, and Pittsburgh twice, ... and Cincy can be easy most times, but that could lead to 1-2.5 wins over the past.
Therefore those 8.+ win seasons would become 9-11.5 win seasons in Carolina, and in the NFC that usually means a wildcard if not a division win.
hmm. If Tom Brady had to play in the 1980's he wouldn't have been able to play past age 32, full stop! See they've changed the rules.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Baker will go to Carolina and have to win the job.. BTW.. he will have to beat Darnold who has been in that offense for atleast a year.. so Baker probably wont start either.

I have an enormous wager to make with anyone who wants to bet - assuming both are healthy - that Baker starts week 1 vs the Browns. Darnold is not very good. You might agree with the hatchet job article - but BM is > than SD.

I wouldnt make a huge bet but I would make that bet... not that I think SD > BM but BM is way behind learning the offense and all that comes with that. BM would only have from now to read up, then get into camp and understand the terminology, reads, audibles, protections..etc.. and NOT know his WRs at all. Safe money says SD starts but BM replaces him at some point.

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In Week 1, the Browns will be paying Baker $589k to try to beat the Browns.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by DogNDC
Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Baker will go to Carolina and have to win the job.. BTW.. he will have to beat Darnold who has been in that offense for atleast a year.. so Baker probably wont start either.

I have an enormous wager to make with anyone who wants to bet - assuming both are healthy - that Baker starts week 1 vs the Browns. Darnold is not very good. You might agree with the hatchet job article - but BM is > than SD.

I wouldnt make a huge bet but I would make that bet... not that I think SD > BM but BM is way behind learning the offense and all that comes with that. BM would only have from now to read up, then get into camp and understand the terminology, reads, audibles, protections..etc.. and NOT know his WRs at all. Safe money says SD starts but BM replaces him at some point.

anyone that has watched Darnold play would tell you he don't know his receivers either..lol, he's trash, Baker could show up the Sat before the Opener and still probably go out there an put up better performance than Darnold.. Thats not a high bar Baker has to hurdle. The Browns on the other hand should still spank them with our running game and superior talent.


Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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