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As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


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OCD, you are just one of the handful I am referring to. What's wild is you guys get so offended when I take almost the same exact words that one of you will say and just switch the names around. You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques. And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

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Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.



I wonder if people who arguing that Watson deserves to be severely punished ever take the time to listen to these videos or read the articles on it?

I'd be okay w/a settlement if it is 2 or even 4 games just to put an end to the drama, but I still think the NFL's case is extremely weak and that Watson doesn't deserve to be punished.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
"IMO."

So like everyone we still don't know.

A decision will be made. I will accept it. I have felt all along that this is not about justice. There are way to many elements at play to be about justice.

This is about money and compromise. What took place will be lost.

I am glad that there was no evidence of physical assault and violence. Whatever happened it seems like money is a cure. In the end I hope those involved are good with the decision.

That last sentence is something I think ALL Browns fans can agree with. At some point we all have to come to terms with what we will never know happened, however, the fact there are no allegations of physical assault or violence is something we can at least use in moving on once the decision and healing(for lack of a better term) commences.

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That is where this whole thing is.

What happened? Sex. We can look at that through any lens. Money. People are going to get paid.

So in the end since there will be no decision on who is guilty or innocent. Just people going home with less money or more money.

We can all decide for ourselves how we want to go forward. Take whatever road you choose.

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j/c:

One thing that may be bad news for Watson and the Browns is that Brady and Elliot both took their cases to Federal Court and the NFL won. Of course, this was before the Snyder, Kraft, and Jones cases were in the picture.

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I probably will get crucified but its my honest opinion and I won't go Woke and phony. I believe in Chivalry yes women are physically the weaker sex. It doesn't mean they cannot dominate situations. I do feel its the duty of all men to protect women. Would I back a woman President...100% when I say the word weaker it doesn't mean they can't lead. But we men must protect them physically. The young woman (an Olympian athlete) got beat with a pipe she should have been protected. Women get abused sexually at a high rate and their first impression they take away with it is it was their fault. They did something wrong. That has to stop, we must protect them. It doesn't mean to believe them blindly. But we should take all accusations seriously and those who out right lied to get an edge with children or revenge...they should be prosecuted. But the vast majority are telling the truth and they should be believed after some easy detective work.

Crap sugars dropping under 50 I got to go....


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Lolz.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
OCD, you are just one of the handful I am referring to. What's wild is you guys get so offended when I take almost the same exact words that one of you will say and just switch the names around. You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques. And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

Funny thing is I have seen multiple posters who write infrequently mention that they don't post often and they have mentioned a poster here who acts as a bully .... They all mentioned the same posters, none of them mentioned OCD. I'm betting people will know who was named.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.



I wonder if people who arguing that Watson deserves to be severely punished ever take the time to listen to these videos or read the articles on it?

I'd be okay w/a settlement if it is 2 or even 4 games just to put an end to the drama, but I still think the NFL's case is extremely weak and that Watson doesn't deserve to be punished.

I read the articles on both sides, I watch the videos and I still believe the argument against Watson not playing for an entire year is extremely compelling. I know you believe in your mind you are "giving a little" by saying 2-4 games would be "ok", but that doesn't change what we all feel.

BTW, reports out this morning is that the review has finished and the most likely outcome from Judge Robinson is between 2-8 games. Then the appeal process, if there is one.

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Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source. Pit, feel free to correct (not that I need to tell/let you).

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

Last edited by oobernoober; 07/19/22 12:19 PM.

There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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j/c:



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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

Irrelevant? Their policy has become a joke.


willynilly

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

Irrelevant? Their policy has become a joke.


willynilly


Always was and (apparently) always will be.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source.

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

I highly doubt it. Nothing else has been in a public forum.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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I don't expect her decision to come this week. I'm hoping for next week before camp opens, but it wouldn't be surprising if she doesn't rule until the following week.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source.

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

I highly doubt it. Nothing else has been in a public forum.

I don't know the answer, but peen is probably correct. I did hear Florio say that Robinson will probably make the details of her ruling public, but I don't know if that is true or not. I'm sure there are details many want to hear, but there could be some nasty details exposed if her decision is made public.

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I agree. As far as the NFl and Watson are concerned this is basically a matter of employee discipline.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
OCD, you are just one of the handful I am referring to. What's wild is you guys get so offended when I take almost the same exact words that one of you will say and just switch the names around. You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques. And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

Funny thing is I have seen multiple posters who write infrequently mention that they don't post often and they have mentioned a poster here who acts as a bully .... They all mentioned the same posters, none of them mentioned OCD. I'm betting people will know who was named.

If I answer correctly will I get a year supply of Turtle Wax? smile

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
The NFL's case is weak.

According to some unconfirmed source that spoke to Florio.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You are an emotional little fella.

Then we have the rest of that post. Oh the irony. But this is what always happens when you keep posting during your cocktail hour.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques.

Receipts?

Quote
And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

A lot of people have made the same claim. I guess they must all be lying. No wonder you claim 26 women are lying.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source.

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

I highly doubt it. Nothing else has been in a public forum.

That was my assumption as well, but I haven't read either way how it'll be.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Agree, 100%. The roads taken- one branch- innocent until proved guilty and second branch- guilty until proven innocent. IF the judge in this case considers how the owners have NEVER been held to a higher standard, then DW should have no suspension. Right or wrong- that's the proper outcome, JMHO.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source. Pit, feel free to correct (not that I need to tell/let you).

No, you don't need to tell me that. lol

It's actually not about being an anonymous report as much as it's about perception. I've explained this several times but will yet once again.

We see it on this very board. Different people hear the exact same thing and come to a totally different conclusion as to what that means. Some see it as he said/she said and consider anything that the women have claimed as having no evidentiary value. While others do. I could list several such examples of the differing perceptions on this very board people have concluded based on the same information. Then I think people must consider the logic of such a statement. If the NFL has no actual evidence, why were there three days of hearings? Why would there be a judgement that takes a former judge so long to revue the evidence in order to render a decision?

Sometimes things just don't add up and I think this happens to be one of those times.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
"A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence"

It is not a statement of guilt either. If you are not charged with a crime, innocence or guilt are a moot point. But, in this country, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So if he was charged by the GJ, how many would suggest that it doesn't mean he is guilty? They viewed the evidence and decided there was nothing to charge him with, I would have to say that leans more towards innocence, but I get your point.

Correct, and last I checked, nobody was ever claiming it to be such. I was addressing people that keep holding up the lack of indictment as evidence of him "not having committed a crime", and it absolutely is NOT the case.

The grand juries' decisions have ZERO implications regarding his guilt -or- innocence. As long as people can get this through their skulls and stop trying to hold it up as meaning anything at all other than they didn't feel they had enough to pursue prosecution, then I don't need to re-post what I wrote.

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the trial process. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with any other aspect. Not the media. Not Joe Smith on the street talking to his buddy. Nothing. People discussing how they feel about it are NOT bound by that, at all. We are not courts. For some, what they've read in the accusations is enough to form an opinion that, at the very least, the dude is a scumbag. For others, they look at the accusations and the testimony and they feel there isn't enough there. Period.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
"A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence"

It is not a statement of guilt either. If you are not charged with a crime, innocence or guilt are a moot point. But, in this country, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So if he was charged by the GJ, how many would suggest that it doesn't mean he is guilty? They viewed the evidence and decided there was nothing to charge him with, I would have to say that leans more towards innocence, but I get your point.

Correct, and last I checked, nobody was ever claiming it to be such. I was addressing people that keep holding up the lack of indictment as evidence of him "not having committed a crime", and it absolutely is NOT the case.

The grand juries' decisions have ZERO implications regarding his guilt -or- innocence. As long as people can get this through their skulls and stop trying to hold it up as meaning anything at all other than they didn't feel they had enough to pursue prosecution, then I don't need to re-post what I wrote.

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the trial process. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with any other aspect. Not the media. Not Joe Smith on the street talking to his buddy. Nothing. People discussing how they feel about it are NOT bound by that, at all. We are not courts. For some, what they've read in the accusations is enough to form an opinion that, at the very least, the dude is a scumbag. For others, they look at the accusations and the testimony and they feel there isn't enough there. Period.

Purple,
A grand jury decision is based off can the prosecutor convince a jury that a there is enough evidence that the state has compiled to determine if criminal charges SHOULD be brought. 2 different grand juries said NO!!!.. That is why the lawyer for those women went the civil route. So what this does say is that Watson did not do anything that could be CRIMINALLY charged.

Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!

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Originally Posted by DogNDC
Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!

Why do I keep needing to remind people that this is an unnamed source that has no bearing on the outcome of the case based on his opinion?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!

Why do I keep needing to remind people that this is an unnamed source that has no bearing on the outcome of the case based on his opinion?

Pit, we know they did not bring 24 or 66 cases to the judge. Also, the ones that settled cannot be brought in so how many does that leave?? Again, the NFL case is weak. Everyone talks about Snyder or Kraft when the real problem is the Texans!! You know, the ownership that provided the rooms and the NDA forms. Goodell is praying that judge says anything over 8 games because if she comes back with anything from 4-8, the NFL will back down.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.



I wonder if people who arguing that Watson deserves to be severely punished ever take the time to listen to these videos or read the articles on it?

I'd be okay w/a settlement if it is 2 or even 4 games just to put an end to the drama, but I still think the NFL's case is extremely weak and that Watson doesn't deserve to be punished.

Vers,
If you ever notice most of the "Hang em High" or the "HE did something" never give any link, article..etc of anything remotely concrete. Its just their opinion.. yada...yada..yada!! And now that more information is coming out, they cannot back away from their original, non- knowing opinion! I have no idea what that judge will come back with but everyone can see that the NFL case is weak right now. I would not be surprised if the NFL tries to settle an 6-8 game suspension by training camp

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Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"? I will also ask you what do other cases have to do with watson? You seem to have this all figured out when even a retired judge is combing through the three days of testimony. It appears with the time being spent coming to a conclusion by Robinson it must not be as weak as you believe it is.

It seems as though you are pointing your fingers more towards the Texans for things they did because they felt watson may have been guilty than you are the man they felt the need to protect. That seems more than a little odd to me.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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...claiming that a case in which a retired judge is spending weeks deciding while combing through the evidence is "weak". You do realize that defies common sense, right?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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They don't want to listen to reason and continue to create false narratives. Assigning labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant while continually talking about the number of women who must be lying is assigning guilt.

I also don't think that anyone is saying Watson is innocent because the GJ didn't indict him. However, it's not like it's sure as hell doesn't point to his guilt. And the cases in Civil Court do not mean he's guilty, either. The only good thing is that they will be miserable when the Browns are winning games while those of us who are more level-headed will be enjoying the ride.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"? I will also ask you what do other cases have to do with watson? You seem to have this all figured out when even a retired judge is combing through the three days of testimony. It appears with the time being spent coming to a conclusion by Robinson it must not be as weak as you believe it is.

It seems as though you are pointing your fingers more towards the Texans for things they did because they felt watson may have been guilty than you are the man they felt the need to protect. That seems more than a little odd to me.

Any good arbitrator is going to take their time and look at all the evidence. Or even the lack of evidence and then write up what and where the law applies. And yes, she will look at any precedence the NFL has done in the past. So taking her time is not a big deal. And we know that Watson did not commit any crime so he is up right now.

And how ever hard she comes down on Watson, the NFL will have to do something about the Texans. Why, because they were accomplices. The Texans cannot say they knew nothing about what was going on ..(* even though they are trying too *). SO if Watson sues, then he gets to tell the tale of how the Texans supported him!!!.. So you got Snyder investigation which was so bad the NFL had their investigators NOT WRITE DOWN WHAT THEY FOUND... Then my boy Kraft (* I would not bring myself to punish a 80 yr old for going to get one rubbed out *) and now the Texans helping Watson.....

Better settle this quick!

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
They don't want to listen to reason and continue to create false narratives. Assigning labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant while continually talking about the number of women who must be lying is assigning guilt.

I also don't think that anyone is saying Watson is innocent because the GJ didn't indict him. However, it's not like it's sure as hell doesn't point to his guilt. And the cases in Civil Court do not mean he's guilty, either. The only good thing is that they will be miserable when the Browns are winning games while those of us who are more level-headed will be enjoying the ride.

Vers
Is Watson pretty creepy = Yea!!... But being creepy aint a crime. Once you lose on the no coersion, no violence, no physical restraint... what is left?? League policy on conduct or maybe bringing bad light to league... Which gets blown up by the owners conduct... Hell look up how the Cowboys had to settle their case with the cowboys cheerleaders...

Also what people forget, Goodell is paid to protect the league and the owners. DO you think they want ANY case against an owner going to open court?? My answer is NO

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It's actually not about being an anonymous report as much as it's about perception. I've explained this several times but will yet once again.

We see it on this very board. Different people hear the exact same thing and come to a totally different conclusion as to what that means. Some see it as he said/she said and consider anything that the women have claimed as having no evidentiary value. While others do. I could list several such examples of the differing perceptions on this very board people have concluded based on the same information. Then I think people must consider the logic of such a statement. If the NFL has no actual evidence, why were there three days of hearings? Why would there be a judgement that takes a former judge so long to revue the evidence in order to render a decision?

Sometimes things just don't add up and I think this happens to be one of those times.

I think it's a good thing you repeated your angle. I agree with you that it makes no sense. Aside from that, we disagree. The way I read your statement, you conclude that the source with knowledge of the situation must be confused/wrong because how could the NFL push so hard with so little. You've made up your mind that Watson is guilty, so your interpretation of the 'no evidence' statement fits that. For me, the NFL not putting forward any evidence fits my assumptions of this being a total clownshow.

Regarding your question of what they could be doing this whole time if no evidence is put forward.... I dunno... crafting a convincing argument with nothing tangible to back it up probably takes a lot of effort.
I am so tired of this saga. I just want to hear her brief and try to glean what I can from that.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

-PrplPplEater
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I think the argument that this is taking too long is crazy. Of course, she should take her time. Also, I'm sure the both sides presented a TON of "evidence." Most of it was probably what the women had to say from the NFL. Not sure what Watson's camp had to offer other than denials and explanations of what did occur. However, none of that changes the fact that there were only the cases of 4 women that were presented to Judge Robinson. What does that tell you about the rest of the cases? Also, the statement about no violence and coercion is strong. There was one other part to that, but I can't remember it. Was it force? This is why I think the NFL's case is weak.

That does not mean that I believe Sue Robinson won't punish him. I have no idea how she will rule. I just feel better about Watson's chances as more information has come out.

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Originally Posted by hitt
Agree, 100%. The roads taken- one branch- innocent until proved guilty and second branch- guilty until proven innocent. IF the judge in this case considers how the owners have NEVER been held to a higher standard, then DW should have no suspension. Right or wrong- that's the proper outcome, JMHO.

What owner/team other than Robert Kraft had an incident that wasn't punished?

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Pretty much where I am now.

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I miss Tom and the Heartbreakers.

Love that band

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