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You stated things like "exposing yourself, masturbating, and shooting a load on a professional massage therapist" as if they were facts. Just like others use labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant. Once again, Watson has not been convicted of/a crime. He has not even been charged w/a crime. Furthermore, the NFL has found"no evidence that Watson engaged in violence, made threats, applied coercion, or used force."

Assigning labels and guilt to those who have not been convicted of a crime is barbaric and goes against the essence of the laws of our land.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You stated things like "exposing yourself, masturbating, and shooting a load on a professional massage therapist" as if they were facts. Just like others use labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant. Once again, Watson has not been convicted of/a crime. He has not even been charged w/a crime. Furthermore, the NFL has found"no evidence that Watson engaged in violence, made threats, applied coercion, or used force."

Assigning labels and guilt to those who have not been convicted of a crime is barbaric and goes against the essence of the laws of our land.

You keep beating this drum of "nothing proven", even to the point of insisting posters should insert the word "alleged" whenever they speak of Watson's cases...

Just curious Vers, what would make you say that Snyder "committed atrocities"??

Do you have some first-hand proof of all the terrible things he did??


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I posted the articles. Read them for and decide for yourself. We both know you won't.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You stated things like "exposing yourself, masturbating, and shooting a load on a professional massage therapist" as if they were facts. Just like others use labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant. Once again, Watson has not been convicted of/a crime. He has not even been charged w/a crime. Furthermore, the NFL has found"no evidence that Watson engaged in violence, made threats, applied coercion, or used force."

Assigning labels and guilt to those who have not been convicted of a crime is barbaric and goes against the essence of the laws of our land.

I agree, but it is what it is. Don't get all worked up over it. You aren't going to change opinions.


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Were all these allegations proven in a court of law?

That seems to be your litmus test for saying a cross word about Watson.


How would "committed atrocities" enter a sentence when talking about alleged conduct?

Did he (allegedly) murder someone?


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You want to argue and pick and choose words. You want to ignore video evidence, bribery, intimidation of witnesses, extortion, gaining access to employees emails and other electronic sources so they can be used for exploitation. You want to ignore that freaking Congress is involved. That's your right, but please, don't waste my time w/your BS. Stick to joining your "team" and their pursuit of trolling the board.

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They're your words.

Just pointing out more of your adolescent double standards.

And you talking about "trolling"? rofl


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His standards only apply to others. In his mind only watson and watson's attorney are the beacon of truth. Numbers don't matter, haven't you heard? They carry no weight with some.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Kind of feel the same way as when we got Kareem Hunt who was accused of physically assaulting women.

Now we have Watson. What he allegedly did was even worse. The Browns knew what Watson was being accused of and sued for. They put themselves right in the middle of this mess by trading for him.

If they didn't think they could win with Baker, then fine. There were other QBs available. Why did it have to be Watson? Why not do what Denver did and get Wilson?

I guess as a Browns fan, I have a range of feelings from guilt to frustration to disgust. Sometimes I feel guilty rooting for and supporting a team with a guy like Watson on it but I 'm still a Browns fan.

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I guess as a Browns fan, I have a range of feelings from guilt to frustration to disgust. Sometimes I feel guilty rooting for and supporting a team with a guy like Watson on it but I 'm still a Browns fan.

I've had to deal with this as well. And this isn't the first time, where this team is concerned.

Every time Kellen Winslow's name came up, I got this nasty taste in the back of my mouth. So much talent; such flawed character.
Johnny Manziel tried to push me away from this team.
I was totally devastated when I learned of 32's treatment of women. He was a hero like My Dad... until he wasn't.

I'm on the record: this issue raises a conflict in me unlike any player's who came before. Guilty/not guilty, doesn't matter from my perspective. It's the stain on the logo that bothers me. I can rub and rub, use bleach, borax & brighteners, and scrub that orange helmet with acid and sandpaper, and it won't come out. I'm a different Browns fan than I was before this trade. They took something from me, with the way they did it. And it's not because I'm a DeShaun hater by any means. It's not that I was ever a BakerBoi, either. It's not that the trade wasn't a sound roster decision or dubious upgrade. None of that. It's the stink that surrounds the whole thing. Browns just can't ever make it easy for their fans. Acquire a FA lead-pipe cinch top 5 QB in the offseason? Cleveland??? What's the catch? Oh, yeah... there's that.

I've said before that I expect my ongoing enthusiasm for this team to be forever tempered, even if the Cleveland Browns win it all. I know myself. I know how I react to things like this. I know that I'll probably always place an * on anything CLE does while #4 is under center.

The years are winding down for this little kid who sat in Municipal Stadium and asked His Dad "Where is he?" when Jim Brown's jersey became too muddied to see 32. I always expected myself to have a break from reality if I ever saw a CLE team hoist the Lombardi. I don't see that fantasy projection any more.

I'll be glad for them/us, in that "satisfied old man" way... but this team waited until the last minute to steal the little kid from me. I'll follow them until I'm horizontal, but it simply won't be as sweet as it could have been, had this whole thing been handled better. Browns even managed to 'brown up' the offseason FA QB grab of the decade. Only in the 216, yo.

I still love'em, bless their hearts. I just hate the ever-present 'Keystone Kops' look that seems to slap itself onto everything they try to do.


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I'll be glad for them/us, in that "satisfied old man" way... but this team waited until the last minute to steal the little kid from me. I'll follow them until I'm horizontal, but it simply won't be as sweet as it could have been, had this whole thing been handled better. Browns even managed to 'brown up' the offseason FA QB grab of the decade. Only in the 216, yo.

I still love'em, bless their hearts. I just hate the ever-present 'Keystone Kops' look that seems to slap itself onto everything they try to do.

Even without this trade, I don't think it would have been as sweet as with JB, Sipe and Kosar. Going to the Muni full of blue collar people with our 10-20 dollar tickets, screaming our heads off. Or watching on TV, a late Browns drive with Charlie Jones saying "fasten your seatbelts.....". I loved the games when Bob Trumpy the bungle homer would be shut up with a come from behind Browns victory. The sick feeling we felt for days after a Browns loss. We were never getting those days or feelings back with the modern Browns or NFL. It's a damn shame, because I so wanted to share those feelings with my son, but reality hit hard. We have what we have.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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I believe that as we age the shine on many things begins to dull.

We live in our time and as that time passes. The way we look at the world and the way we react changes.

I live with my two grandsons. One is sixteen, the other ten. They keep things fresh for me. They see the world through eyes of wonderment.

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Originally Posted by Clemdawg
.... this issue raises a conflict in me unlike any player's who came before. Guilty/not guilty, doesn't matter from my perspective. It's the stain on the logo that bothers me.

....

Well put, and thank you for putting your feelings out there (a couple times now). Believe it or not, I feel exactly the same as the part I quoted. The only part I differ is what follows after what I quoted. I'm trying to stay neutral on the whole thing until the truth comes out. It's more hope than anything... I'm hopeful that my Browns fandom can stay intact. I don't see how I can root for a guy who is how his accusers describe. I remember feeling outrage when Hunt arrived in town... and there was a gap between the outrage and when he started restoring some goodwill. This still feels different, though. I don't know if my trying to give him the benefit of the doubt because of my football fandom says more about me than anything else, but approaching this whole story with a patient skepticism is what I've decided and I'm sticking to it.

This whole saga has had me in knots at times because there's a personal thing going on in parallel. How should we treat people that have done stuff like this? At what point is someone no longer redeemable?


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Perspective is important.

DW will be a Brown for the foreseeable future.

Over time your opinion of him may change based upon what he does going forward. People make mistakes.

Some learn from them and become better. Not all do but there is hope.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
I believe that as we age the shine on many things begins to dull.

We live in our time and as that time passes. The way we look at the world and the way we react changes.

I live with my two grandsons. One is sixteen, the other ten. They keep things fresh for me. They see the world through eyes of wonderment.

I think a lot of that is experience tells us that things might not be as good as you hoped for, but almost always never end up as badly as you feared.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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I think you nailed it, Clem... "pulled the little kid right outta me".

I've let this whole thing breathe long enough to settle in to my new "fandom". I'll always bleed brown and orange, I don't think anything will ever change that. But it just feels different now.

I think the biggest piece that was taken away was the "pride of ownership" with this shiny new toy. After taking only three-four seasons to finally scrape away all that "stank", I have a new reason to stare at all these team shirts hanging in my closet and just scroll right by... "not today dawg, not today". It felt so good to finally put those on again and poke my chest out a bit. Honestly, the immediate thought before throwing on a Browns shirt now is embarrassment -- once again -- same as it almost always was.

Above all else, I really thought the embarrassment was in the rear view. Oh well.


I've tried to look at the bright side, as of late, and have come to a definite mindset. I can read down the roster and there's name after name of players you just really want to cheer for.

I'll cheer for Deshaun to succeed as a quarterback; talent-wise he should be among the finest we've ever had. If he's not the missing link to that ever-elusive championship, in the end, it will just be more "stain". The "stains", that's been our nickname on every street in the NFL and every corner of the internet. At the end of the day, it's something we're all used to anyway. It's that ever-sinking "only in Cleveland" feeling that has made this all taste so bad. Almost as if we should just learn to always expect it.

I just really hope QB1 gives me a reason to cheer for "Deshaun the person". It's still possible that we may be hoisting a trophy with this young man well on his way to redemption. It's possible... it happens every day. It just sucks to have the emotional part of "fandom" tied to one player. Tied to whether or not he'll march beyond "scumbag" and show earnest regret for what he's done to affect the lives of others.

I can give a crap about a court of law... truth be told, I really don't think he's committed any crime. Is his conduct "unbecoming"? Yes. Of an NFL player, as a Cleveland Brown, hell -- as a human.

That's my opinion now. He'll have to do something to change that over time.

It's that "time" that cures all wounds. One of the truest cliches in life. So, if I step back, I'm wise enough to admit that I'm "over-reacting" to what's going on in the here and now. I'm acting as if I know the ending to this story with dead-zero in the retrospect department.

It just sucks that, for the immediate future, every feeling of "pride" goes so much further than Sunday's box score. But that crappy part of our future could be in the rear-view before we know it.

Holding out hope.


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Not sure where to put this or even if I should post it.

But I decided to mention this.

I got a message from eotab saying he will be absent from the Board for awhile. He has to go into the hospital for heart issues.

We all know tab has had a tough go with his health. He has been through a lot. I never met him and don't know him outside of the Board.

But over the years we have always been cordial and enjoyed good football discussions.

He is a passionate Browns fan. It means a lot to him. I am not a praying man but I pray he gets through this and recovers.



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Yes, I wish eotab nothing but the best in his ongoing battle against his health issues.

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Sorry to hear that about tab. He's been through hell. He will be in my prayers.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Thanks for the heads up. Fight the good fight, Eo! My prayers for strength and getting healthy. We want you back amongst us.


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Prayers for good health and speedy healing, eo.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Keep battling, tab! Sorry to hear this, but you’ve gone through stuff before and you’ll get through this time.


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Best of luck and strength to you Eotab as you deal with your illness.

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thoughts and strength with you EO


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I'm finding it hard to even care about training camp right now, I hope this isn't what I feel like come the regular season. I'm over Baker not being QB, not happy about the DW situation, feel like Ski will be a bust or mediocre at best, and love many of our players but just not excited for this year.


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Post verdict on DW; How do you really feel as a fan now?

Me, I feel much better with confirmation that what DW did is clear and he now has guardrails. I think it's crazy that he wasn't charged with a minimum Lewd and lascivious conduct, a misdemeanor in most states. I would really like to see or hear what those grand juries saw and heard. With the current political climate in Texas, it's not surprising he wasn't charged. I wonder what made the GJ give him a pass. That would be good info to have at this point.


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More than likely, lack of any hard evidence. From my understanding, pretty much everything was a 'he said, she said' kind of thing. Grand juries aren't supposed to operate on info like that. Any prosecutor would tell you the same. If all you have is "she said" with no concrete evidence, it's a no go.

I have no doubt 'wrong' things happened, but they were unprovable in a court of law.

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I can buy that.


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That's what I was saying when people were proclaiming Watson was innocent because the Grand Juries wouldn't indict. Unless someone had a video tape of one of the incidents or an audio recording of Watson verbally coercing someone there was no way a Grand Jury was going to indict him.


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And after hearing all pf the evidence, Robinson believed what she said and she said and she said and she said.


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The surprise on the relatively short sentence was short-lived once the full report came out. Watson is/was a total scumbag. The judge even called his conduct predatory in the report. The only reason he got off easy was because the NFL is a joke, and Robinson put them on blast. I don't find the fact that this punishment follows precedent all that comforting either.

My hope is that he shows remorse and tries to atone once he's clear of civil cases.


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The Browns finally land a elite talent at QB and some fans
Still aren't happy cause he isnt Theo Huxtable or a perfect
Citizen. Moaning and turning on the water works
Cause they feel ashamed that Watson is the QB.
How so many forget the succession of choirboy QBs
That failed in Cleveland...Couch, Frye, Weeden, Quinn...
"Oh no how can I explain to my kids we have a human
Being at QB who can get this franchise to possible
Uncharted waters ask a Super Bowl.....he showed his private
To a female"

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Theo? Wow. You really are blind aren't you? There are may great QB's that aren't scum bags and you're excuses over one that is are obviously beyond flawed.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Theo? Wow. You really are blind aren't you? There are may great QB's that aren't scum bags and you're excuses over one that is are obviously beyond flawed.
They dont give out a trophy at the end of the season
To the team who has the most Brady Bunch like players
Its all about losses and wins
Not angels and sins

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They shouldn't be handing them out to sexual predators either. But it seems you think they should and that's fine by you.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
They shouldn't be handing them out to sexual predators either. But it seems you think they should and that's fine by you.
A predator. Thats a laugh. What Watson did is really
No different than a NFL player hopping from bar to
Bar and trying to pick up women.

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
They shouldn't be handing them out to sexual predators either. But it seems you think they should and that's fine by you.
A predator. Thats a laugh. What Watson did is really
No different than a NFL player hopping from bar to
Bar and trying to pick up women.

Such a beacon of virtue! We should all listen to the guy who loves his stripper about what's acceptable sexual behavior. You can't make this crap up! lmao. Watson put a whole bunch of innocent women in horrible positions by taking advantage of his stardom as an NFL QB. Now I don't know if you are a member of the he-man woman haters club or not, but damn spanky, women are people too. And I bet if some random dude rubbed his exposed erection on you without consent, you wouldn't point out how it's like bar hopping then. Or maybe you would, I don't know you well enough to say.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/02/22 03:48 PM.

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We should all listen to the guy who loves his stripper about what's acceptable sexual behavior.

You are resorting to belittling another man's wife?

Disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
We should all listen to the guy who loves his stripper about what's acceptable sexual behavior.

You are resorting to belittling another man's wife?

Disgusting.

Am I? No. I'm using his handle in a rebuttal of his views. I don't know that he is married at all, AND I doubt you do either. I'm not even sure if this poster is male or female for that matter. Nope, this is just a pathetic attempt to take me down by you. You've been very fixated on that recently. It's plain for all to see just how pathetic you've become.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 08/02/22 04:17 PM.

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No, he was asked if she was a stripper and he confirmed that. While you may not think strippers are deserving of our respect, I strongly disagree.

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