DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kareem Hunt

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I like Hunt...a lot. But I don't know how anyone didn't see this as inevitable. I think this season will be lost the second DW gets his do-over suspension term. Might as well get something for Hunt before he walks next year. We have DE and just drafted Ford...BEHIND Chubb. I won't like it...but it should probably happen.

I feel bad for Hunt. Dude wants to get paid, but he has absolutely 0 leverage. He could start for a majority of the league, though.

Nobody is going to trade for him just to have to give him a mega contract next year.

His only hope is to ball out, stay healthy, and stay out of trouble. If he does those three things he’ll get another 3 year deal elsewhere

That would weaken the 2022 Browns for a whole year, and right before the season begins, and we know Hunt can play, nobody can be sure about any future draft pick.

Pat McAfee share my sentiments about that too much controversies isn’t good.

It seems like Andrew Berry has a habit of being inconsistent or maybe not fully honest as a communicator because major disagreements and controversies often starts with wrong expectations. The number of disappointed Browns players who wants to be traded because they think they deserve a better contract starts to stack up. When those disagreements ends with such strong disappointment that the conflict goes public then the relationship is often near the end. When the employer then starts to threaten their employees with fines or similar then it’s often a sign of a unhealthy working environment. Threats as a tool to keep authority never works if you want success, it’s that simple.

I use the same principles as with my criticism of DSW, one mistake can happen to anyone but when making the same mistakes over and over again then the alarm bells is ringing. Maybe it’s time for young Berry to start to look in the mirror and ask himself why his leadership methods doesn’t works?

...Yes, we know you side with anyone that has their hand out for more money.

Seriously, NFL players wanting to be paid more is a non-story. Wouldn't even be surprised if the Browns leaked this to see if any teams would bite. We seem to have a surplus at the position and just paid Chubb. We're unlikely to pay another RB who would likely be in his 30s at the end of his next contract.

I love Hunt, but he's closer to the end of his career than the beginning, most likely. Don't get me wrong he probably has good years in him, but he did miss 9 games last season with multiple injuries. His style doesn't typically go with longevity.

At this point, the team is pretty used to dealing with/tuning out drama. That's life in the NFL, especially in certain segments of the media.

Leaking information of controversies and publicly threaten your own employees with hefty fines? Seems like a good strategy that’s often practiced by successful employers around the world, right?

These old school methods when managers play hard ball and threaten people worked well when dinosaurs was occupying the earth but lately most modern leaders has moved on from such crap. When I search for successful leaders most of them practice good and honest communication built and trust and understanding. A employer who look after their employees best interests and always trying to work for a mutual good solution often surround themselves with loyal hard working and professional people who don’t go on strike when disagreements appear. You know the best recipe for long term success but unfortunately the concept of building “long term” seems unfamiliar for certain organizations.

I fully understand the context around not giving elder players on their last leg to much money but with this approach it’s hard to build continuity and create a attractive player environment.

Btw. Brady seems to have other thoughts about how to practice leadership. Sees value in comradeship and trust. Seems to work….

I can agree controversies aren't good. I think Pat is flailing a bit at a dead horse here. The one comment he made about 4:20 in was dead on the money though .... "Has anyone seen a clip of Brissett throwing a football yet" ... the answer is no, and per Purple's comments from the other day from being at camp, his balls don't look good. I personally think the notion that JB is better than injured QB from last year might be wishful thinking.... at the end of the day and that is very concerning.

j/c:

After reading a few posts, I am not sure if the following is known to all of you.

Hunt did not hold out. He held in. That has become a common negotiating tactic this year around the league.

He was participating in individual and group drills while holding in, but did not take part in team activities.

He has since returned to participating in team activities.

If Baker would have stayed I don't think the Browns would have made the playoffs. He would have had less weapons this year than last year. He would also have been upset without a contract extension. He was already upset at the organization and fans in general. If anyone needed a fresh start it was him.

If Brissett plays all year, same result. Maybe Baker might have been good for an extra win or two, but in both cases you're not making the playoffs.

Watson was the only shot at making the playoffs so it's shaping up to be an unenjoyable season.

My suggestion...adopt a second team for the year. Not have a second, just a team you wouldn't mind see winning and take a rooting interest for the year. I'm down to about three teams I'm considering. You can pick the Panthers. Baker is apparently running away with the QB comp.

We disagree on what things would have been like with BM at QB. I think a lot would have depended on the atmosphere and KS and BM would have had to clear the air. But Amari Cooper is better than anything we had last year at WR, Bell has potential to be as good or better than the rest. . . and we missed the play offs by 1 game with injured BM. Hooper was 'not good' and while Njoku is still a giant question mark in terms of consistency, I'm happier with him and Bryant as #1 and #2 TE. Injuries hurt everywhere last year too .... But none of that really matters ....

I struggle to watch and can't root for any team other than the Browns - other than highlights and Thursday night games, Monday night games and playoffs etc. After leaving Cleveland I lived in Phoenix when the cardinals were pretty good, never rooted for them or watched them. I moved to Charlotte 10 years ago and never root for them and have not watched many games on TV (less than 4?)- have been to 3 or 4 games live. With Baker in town I will be interested to see how he does but I won't be rooting for him or the Panthers. I'm more likely to root against the Steelers and Ravens, than have a team to root for. Along with BM I'll also be interested in the progression and how good Burrows is, Herbert, and the dearth of WR talent that was in the draft this year ... in fact if I have anything of true interest for me if the Browns are flailing, it will be this year's rookie WR class (and of course my fantasy teams!).

Give me one reason why I should feel confident with our current leadership. A past history of success?

Did we handle the OBJ saga well?
Jarvis Landry?
Troy Hill?
How about Baker Mayfield? How our GM handled that beauty was a masterpiece.
And now Kareem Hunt.

Always somebody else’s fault…, that’s hard to beat.

In the meantime, we've locked up Garrett, Chubb and Ward.

You can't "handle" every player -- they aren't horses, they have free will. You're doing the same nitpicking that can be done by any fan of any team.

OBJ makes himself a "saga", it's what he's famous for.
Landry? He went home... and everyone on the planet knew he was never playing out the last year of his contract at that price.
Hill? How did the FO mess that one up?
Mayfield was done the second we jumped on the plane. While I have never condoned the entire process, there was no other choice (process-wise) and that situation was a two way street.
Hunt still plays here. We haven't done anything wrong.

I don’t think any of those players bone just listed would really help us right now. Our only issue is QB. Brissett can be what Baker was last year.

Yet an injured Baker had slightly better stats than a healthy Brissett last year. But you see, Baker is healthy now. So the real question would be is a healthy Brissett as good as a healthy Baker? Remember before you answer, a healthy Baker helped lead this team to the playoffs in 2020.

I don't think there's any way that people can compare Baker to watson. Watson is clearly a better QB when he's available to play. But some of this crazy BS of fans trying to convince themselves that a healthy Brissett can be compared to a healthy Baker is just as foolish as someone who would try to compare a healthy Baker to a healthy watson.

I hope Hunt gets paid. He deserves it. Dude could start for the majority of teams in the league, and he wants to get paid accordingly. Hope he can contribute to a successful season here before he goes.

The only one I disagree with is Landry. He could have helped us this year. With that said, I support this FO. I did. not like Dorsey getting fired, but Berry has done a very good job and I like that we have smart guys in charge.

Getting back to Hunt........I think the Browns have a big plans for Hunt this year. He's an excellent all-around back who is more versatile than any of other backs. I don't think he will be w/us long-term, but I believe the Browns want him to be a big part of the offense this year. I could be wrong and he might be traded, but I think I have a pretty good feel for what Berry and Stefanski want to do w/this offense.

I think you are correct - but as I mentioned somewhere else, Baker's injury for 15 games last year are becoming a myth and omitted in any current conversation about performance last year. What might be interesting is if he performs even remotely close to the second half of 2020 or the first couple games last year with a bad Panthers team, I wonder how the narrative will be twisted?

“He’s my best friend, on and off the field. He’s a great person to be around,” Chubb said during an appearance on NFL Network. “I couldn’t imagine playing without him. I want him to be here, whatever they got to do to keep him here. I want to play with Kareem.”

Merely money and/or picks? I want to keep him here. Unless we get a sweet deal for him. I just also felt we didn't use him well when we went pass-happy at times. He had games where he was the highpoint if not the highlights reel. DW may get more out of him than BM managed to do.

There's just a difference in opinion in how much the injury affected his play. Nobody is omitting it. If it's not brought up it's because it's not considered a big factor. And that's because it's being based on his whole body of work and a number of other factors.

My favorite Baker moment of last year...after spending an off season where he still had a large number of doubters across the NFL landscape...people that doubted how good he really was and whether he could put the team on his back...that he, after three and a half quarters of man handling the Chiefs, wet the.bed at the most critical point of the game...too unathletic to escape pressure, tripped up, panicked, and threw into tight coverage for an easy interception on the game winning drive. This is consistent with his poor QB rating in the 4th quarter over his career. He had a chance to rise to the occasion and quiet the doubters. Instead he proved them right.

I knew we were doomed after that game.

If Baker plays well this year, I will say so. There's a greater than 0 percent chance he turns it around and a change of scenery could be exactly what he needed. It wasn't happening in Cleveland. But my bet is he's a backup by next year.

I think this is a big deal quote and something the FO should give some weight to.

Don't forget Baker fumbled that punt snap inside our own 20 and also blew his coverage when Hill went on that 1 play, 75 yard TD drive.

Case Keenum stated that it is almost impossible to play with the injury Baker had...the mystery injury that it has now become.

The type of stuff that happens every week in every game across the league. The teams that come out on top have great QB play to close out games. A large percentage of games in the NFL come down to the final minutes.

That is literally the difference between winners and losers in the NFL.

My point isn’t about what’s the right or wrong decision but more about how our GM handle the communication process.

Taking hard decisions is the easy part, it’s how good you communicate your decision process and then sell it to all involved parties so it’s understandable enough for them to move on without internal or external conflicts . That’s what separate good and less great leaders.

Very little point rehashing the bad or good over the last 4 years. As I said - it'll be interesting to see how things play out. I will say that I watched a game of Herbert's last year and he was pretty poor - the plays he missed and passes that were off target, our guy would have been vilified for... hell he got crucified for playing about the same as the Herbert game I watched with a broken humerus, torn labarum and leg/ankle injuries. I don't think that's who Herbert is - but stuff happens. In addition to player ups and downs, calls are missed - even in the playoffs - and in our case they helped define a lot of people's opinion on our QB.

Which is why, in my opinion, our FO probably watched that KC/Buffalo playoff game last year and collectively thought: THERE’S NO WAY IN HELL WE WOULD WIN THIS GAME. Hence, the QB move for Watson.

Kareem Hunt is under contract play ball ...

I agree. Nicholas Jamaal Chubb is not known for speaking up/out. If he is this hype regarding his pal, that should carry some real weight.

I really disagree with that.

How is that considered “good” leadership?

Give you one reason why you should be confident with the current leadership?
good uestion.
As the WH press secretary might say. We'll circle back to that in a minute.

Ask yourself what’s the end goal of “good” leadership.

Stability vs. Less stability
Conflict’s vs. Less Conflict’s
Less drama vs. Too much drama
Harmony vs. Less harmony
Stringent communication vs. dishonest or bad communication

What’s in common for successful organizations/teams/clubs/companies/families/friendship?

I can go on but if you don’t understand the difference between a honest leadership built on stability and trust vs. a leadership that creates tensions, disappointments and media drama then we’re not on the same page. Most communication around DSW and BM is a text book page of bad leadership. Then you can add all the negative reactions how they handle Kareem Hunt. It’s not about right or wrong decisions, it’s about poor communication skills. People in general and media get tired. Some players get tired. A lot of supporters get tired. It’s out there for everybody to see.

Too much of everything.

I will not consume more of your time if we don’t talk the same “language” but if I use one word to describe GOOD LEADERSHIP it’s STABILTY. The opposite of what we see now.

As far as the NFL goes, you forgot THE most important one:

Fielding a playoff caliber team vs. sucking. It's a business where, unless you're the owner, the window of opportunity is a small one. The roster is limited in size and tough decisions have to be made, and sometimes it's not prudent to share every detail in the decision making process. Then you have twisting and embellishment by the press and social media to add fuel to situations. Given our rabid fanbase, we're never going have a rainbows and unicorns for everyone environment.

I think most of us understand you don't like our FO. We got it. Now, about Kareem Hunt.....