DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid ~ Part 10

Well, this is scary.

We know 2 people we know in the last 2-3 weeks who had randomly passed out and were rushed to the hospital. 1 was a friend of the family who was in their early 60s and the other was a family member who just turned 70. Don't know all of the details of the friend except they randomly passed out at home. Our family member had to be life flighted because she hit her head on the counter & had a seizure/passed out - she had another seizure while in the hospital. Both good health. Both received shots and boosters. Both seem fine days later - so strange/scary.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/me...-other-respiratory-illnesses/ar-AA10NYXw


study
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00260-7/fulltext

Morons and sheep.

You are hilarious and so are the little blind mice that seem to try and deny what trump was doing. He had people using medicines that had NO actual benefit based on no actual scientific evidence. He was actually telling them that wearing a mask wasn't needed. That's not trying to help, backing the science or trying to end a pandemic. It was simply stupid and counterproductive.

All of that was some off the wall BS that only served to harm people. I know many of you don't want to admit that.

Well, I finally got hit last weekend. Bad headache, muscle aches, and the worst sore throat I’ve ever had. Ever time I swallowed it was incredibly intense pain. I was able to get some Paxlovid which I think really helped the symptoms lessen more quickly. Think I likely got it at the Roger Waters concert 2 Wednesday’s ago. I also gave it to my wife.

Glad you are better and hope your wife has mild symptoms and a quick recovery.

Yes, anti-maskers ARE morons and sheep. And I know you were calling libs clowns, morons, and sheep but it damn sure reads like the right-wingers, anti-maskers, and anti-trump-going-to-jail clowns are coming out in force to prove once again they are complete idiots. And this same usual board clown doesn't give a damn if your covid infested science denying kids are forced to wear masks. Cry me a river. Pffft. Grown-ass adults telling kids fairytales about masks being bad for them is what caused this problem. Have any of you even considered that we don't have a clue what the long-term effects of covid are on kids? It's leaving a lot of adults with brain fog and other long-term health complications, but to keep little Johnny from crying, you would expose other's children, the least vaccinated/protected age group, vulnerable to highly contagious and potentially lethal disease. And we're the clowns? smh

Y'all are suffering from right-wing propaganda brain rot.

Well, you would have seen even worse if you watched with the eyes of the left. America going to hell in a handbasket under Trump and his cult of fools; being destroyed by science-denying, non-covid-mandate-complying, golden-idol-worshipping, low brown idiotic fools led by a con-man-and-chief who is the biggest idiot of them all.

This is the kind of places crazy comes from......

Emails show Mehmet Oz pushed Jared Kushner and the White House to use an anti-malaria drug as a Covid treatment, which the WHO later strongly recommended against

Recently released emails from 2020 show how Dr. Mehmet Oz, now the Republican Senate nominee in Pennsylvania, promoted an anti-malaria drug as a COVID-19 treatment directly to the Trump White House in the early stages of the pandemic.

The emails were unveiled on Wednesday in a report from the Select House Committee on the Coronavirus Crisis. They contain messages from Oz to senior White House advisers, including Jared Kushner, former President Donald Trump's son-in-law, and Deborah Birx, who was the administration's coronavirus response coordinator at the time.

Oz had emailed Birx and Kushner separately in March 2020 — a time when the US was still finding its footing in its fight against the virus — urging them to push hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 before clinical trials were complete.

In his message to Birx, Oz asked for the US to start patient trials for the drug as early as possible and requested that US doctors be allowed to start administering it as a Covid treatment if trials weren't possible.

"We cannot hide behind study protocols if we are not allowed to proceed," he wrote.

"I want to push brave Americans to join trials on my show tomorrow, but cannot without a game plan for accessing drugs," he added. Oz wrote that he would "personally recruit patients and pay for a trial," but was having trouble finding the anti-malaria pills.

He cited the testimony of French microbiologist Dr. Didier Raoult, who said the drug was effective in clearing 24 patients of COVID in a test that wasn't randomized or peer-reviewed.

The same drug was also championed by Trump at around the same time as a treatment for the coronavirus, even though there was no clinical evidence that replicated the results reported by Raoult.

Hydroxychloroquine had been one of many drugs that researchers were racing to test amid the pandemic, but multiple studies later found it doesn't work as a COVID-19 treatment. In March 2021, the World Health Organization also strongly recommended against using of the drug to prevent Covid infections.

Clinical trials a 'plodding process': Oz

On the same day that Oz emailed Birx, he also emailed Kushner promoting a faster rollout of hydroxychloroquine to combat the pandemic.

He noted that the Trump administration and Dr. Anthony Fauci, the White House's chief medical adviser, wanted to conduct randomized trials for the drug before declaring it a COVID-19 treatment.

However, Oz wrote that while these clinical trials were ongoing, the White House "could immediately authorize physicians" to use a drug mixture involving hydroxychloroquine and another drug, azithromycin, to treat Covid patients.

"In addition, you should outline that 130 million hydroxychloroquine pills are coming into the market which can treat 5-10 million people and offer an accurate time-table for additional supply to slow down the coronavirus," Oz wrote to Kushner.

When Kushner responded saying that clinical trials for the drug were starting that week, Oz replied that such studies would be "a plodding process which will take a month before we have results."

He encouraged Kushner to make trials for hydroxychloroquine a "national priority and insist on immediate enrollment."

"It has been almost a week since we learned of the French data and over a month since the Chinese data and we still have no patients in trials," he wrote. "Doctors and nurses are already struggling to find pills for off-label use, but at least we have a potential pandemic solution at our fingertips."

Kushner replied: "What do u recommend to speed it up?"

A week after Oz emailed the two advisers, he sent Birx another message saying that early studies on hydroxychloroquine showed that the drug "was safe and results are better than expected."

The email thread shows that Birx forwarded the email to Stephen Hahn, who was the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration at the time. "We should talk," her email read.

The messages from Oz are part of a larger report from the House Committee that accused senior officials in the Trump administration of pressuring the FDA to authorize unproven treatments for emergency use against COVID-19.

Hydroxychloroquine had been one of the main drugs that Trump advisers pushed to get reinstated for emergency authorization, per the report.

In June, Birx testified before the committee investigating the coronavirus crisis that people were communicating with the Trump dangerous ideas about hydroxychloroquine "on a daily basis."

Oz did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment.

https://www.businessinsider.com/dr-...kKm2ALt6SjH07YCnyYPcprXTO1sEKkH4Z0rujgZM

It appears trump was taking advice on covid from the land of Oz.

I take hydroxychloroquine and have not had Covid.

Haven’t had prostate cancer either I’d guess. Must be a cure for that too?

This is a prime example of what anecdotal evidence looks like.

House panel details Trump pressure on FDA for discredited COVID treatment, vaccines

Top Trump administration officials pressured the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to reauthorize the discredited COVID-19 treatment hydroxychloroquine, and to speed up the release of the first COVID-19 vaccines, according to a new report Democrats on the House select coronavirus subcommittee released Wednesday.

Emails, text messages and testimony obtained by the committee show the Trump White House “exerted extreme and inappropriate pressure” on the FDA to reauthorize hydroxychloroquine even after it was shown to be ineffective and potentially dangerous.

The report found administration officials like trade adviser Peter Navarro enlisted outside allies like Fox News host Laura Ingraham and daytime TV talk show host Mehmet Oz — now the GOP nominee for Senate in Pennsylvania — to amplify pressure on the FDA to authorize hydroxychloroquine, a drug normally used to treat malaria and lupus, as a COVID-19 treatment.

Hydroxychloroquine has been heavily promoted as a treatment for the virus by Trump allies despite almost no evidence.

Navarro and Steven Hatfill, an adjunct assistant professor at George Washington University brought on by Navarro as an adviser to the coronavirus response, led coordinated attacks on FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci and other health officials who refused to support hydroxychloroquine.

“Newly released evidence shows that Dr. Hatfill and Mr. Navarro used their direct access to top public health officials in an attempt to strongarm them into supporting hydroxychloroquine,” the report stated.

The FDA issued an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine in late March 2020, but then revoked it less than three months later.

The report also details how the Trump administration influenced the FDA to deliver misleadingly positive news about convalescent plasma as a coronavirus treatment on the eve of the 2020 Republican National Convention (RNC) and White House attempts to block the FDA from collecting additional safety data on the first coronavirus vaccine in an attempt to ensure that it could be authorized before the 2020 presidential election.

Trump later attacked Hahn, without evidence, for deliberately slowing down the authorizations of the vaccine and convalescent plasma because of politics.

“The Select Subcommittee’s findings that Trump White House officials deliberately and repeatedly sought to bend FDA’s scientific work on coronavirus treatments and vaccines to the White House’s political will are yet another example of how the prior Administration prioritized politics over public health,” Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.), the panel’s chair, said in a statement.

The efforts by members of the Trump administration, including the former president, to meddle with public health agencies has been well documented. However, the report offers new levels of detail on the pressures put on the FDA in 2020.

Clyburn noted the Trump administration’s attacks on public health officials helped contribute to a politicization of science, and reduced the public’s trust in the government.

“These assaults on our nation’s public health institutions undermined the nation’s coronavirus response—and are precisely why we must never again settle for leaders who prioritize politics over keeping Americans safe,” Clyburn said.

In testimony before committee staff, Hahn said he felt pressure because of Navarro’s “persistence” in insisting that hydroxychloroquine worked and should be reauthorized, despite strong evidence to the contrary.

“We took a different stance at the FDA,” Hahn said. “So that disagreement, which of course ultimately became somewhat public, was a source of pressure.”

In an emailed statement, Navarro said the select subcommittee was “wrongly” perpetuating that hydroxychloroquine “was somehow dangerous.”

Navarro also cited excerpts from his memoir that chronicled his clashes with what he described as the “never-Trump FDA.”

The subcommittee report also details how the FDA wanted to advise vaccine manufacturers that the FDA wanted 60 days worth of follow-up patient safety data before applications for emergency use authorization were filed. That request would mean authorization wouldn’t occur until after the November 2020 election.

Trump had repeatedly said the shots would be authorized before Election Day, despite experts and agency scientists signaling it was unlikely.

Hahn told the committee the agency faced “pushback about the issue” from multiple officials, including Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows. Meadows said the White House wouldn’t sign off on the guidance, because of the 60-day requirement.

The agency eventually circumvented the White House by quietly publishing the 60-day data request as part of a larger set of background documents for industry. Meadows later that day told Hahn the White House had cleared the release of the guidance.

Trump later attacked the FDA on Twitter.

“New FDA Rules make it more difficult for them to speed up vaccines for approval before Election Day. Just another political hit job!” Trump wrote, tagging Hahn.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...RF--BAKTW3wbSS6yRo8hi-m1cD6cOxUHMh_99qUQ

This is a prime example of knowing what was gonna happen.

I never claimed causation, heck I don't even claim a correlation, but I knew you'd get on it. rofl:

Sometimes it is just too easy.

Farcical reply at best. But you are the farcical embodiment of a troll soul, so it should be expected.

FrankZ - I have no beef with you. But I think you need to look at what you posted and figure out if you are being as smart and clever as you clearly think you are. It's a message board and none of this actually means a damn in the real world - but in response to a discussion about Covid and fake news .... you posted a comment that anyone with a a little reasoning and putting the comment into context with the discussion would interpret as at least mild support for Hydroxychloroquine being helpful with preventing Covid ... you did not write the words "I did not get covid because of ..." but anyone following the conversation would draw a natural and reasonable understanding that was implied.

So your follow up post bragging about a gotcha moment either means you don't understand how conversations work - or - you were deliberately trying to troll and play "gotcha".... and neither is a good look. It's not a 'gotcha' in any way shape or form.

To use an example from a different part of this board - It's a bit like talking about an injured player - telling everyone for months that the injury had little / no impact on the players performance - telling everyone that the replacement player isn't much different in terms of ability, will make better decisions, is more mobile and will turn the ball over less even if he might not have quite as much arm talent .... and then when another poster says that the implication is the replacement must be better than the other guy, calling him a liar. That wasn't you - but it's the same sort of thing. The real world implication is that if someone believes two QB's are about the same, but one makes better decisions, turns the ball over less and is more mobile ... then one is better than the other. And crying "liar" when another poster says that is just wrong. That's sort of what you are doing here.

He's not. But whatever it takes to make him feel better about himself I applaud.

A: It was snark (I think you know that). He likes to poke Pit. He knew Pit would respond. It's entertainment to some of us... although, I must admit, after awhile it becomes boring and way too predictable.

B: So what? People say they take vitamins and haven't had COVID. I know some that still insist taking Zinc has prevented infection...

Remember when people said getting vaccinated prevented COVID? By people I mean Joe Biden and Anthony Fauci... "if you get vaccinated you will not get COVID". Remember when if anyone even questioned the validity of such a broad statement they were accused of spreading misinformation and denying science? Had accounts shut down, got fired from their jobs?


And now there's Pit with a statement like "this is what crazy looks like"... Because someone was advocating quickly starting trials to explore the possibility of approving a drug for treatment that was found to be successful in other parts of the world. At a time when it seemed the world may be coming to an end. No vaccines. People dropping like flies. Countries like Greece refusing to treat people over 80 years of age.

That's where we were when "this is what crazy looks like" took place. Hydroxychloroquine wasn't something someone pulled out of the sky. The world was in a helpless state and reaching for anything. China was conducting clinical trials. France reported success. In 2002 hydroxychloroquine was deemed to effectively inhibit the infection and transmission of SARS-CoV.


But oh, the horror of someone advocating the use of a drug who's side affects are headache, nausea and loss of appetite. But we all know why... because Trump said it may work.

If it were Obama there would be fire trucks driving down the streets throwing out pills like candy at a parade... and we'd all be hailing him as a savior. Cracks me up.

Yes, when people have an unwavering agenda it is too easy, defending Baker no matter what, Watson being scum no matter what, orange man bad no matter what.

Blind obedience to the agenda is just funny.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard. You may hurt yourself.

We're all just puppets dancing to your superior intellect.
A legend in your own mind.

Stay classy.

Maybe.... I don't know. The glee and the overzealous way in which he's doubled down on how smart he is and how easily he manipulates us all seems to be genuine.

You talking to yourself again?

No, Mr.... "I strongly indicated it without actually spelling it out". That's not as clever as you seem to think it is.

At least when I have something to say I say it outright. But do go on......

When the whole pandemic started HQC was floated as a possible deterrent or something that might make SARSCov2 more bearable. This wasn't done by Trump, it was by scientists who understand how the drug works as an antiviral and that had studied it against other virii. I remember being elated and worried about this as I take 2 of them every day. Not for malaria, but I do take them. I was worried as anything mentioned that might help with SARSCov2 became unobtainium in the blink of an eye. And even though was a massive stock pile of the drug it was worrisome if I can't get the medication I need.

I have a couple of friends that are doctors (GP) and they had people calling their office looking to see if they could get a script. The state sent a bulletin to doctors warning them about prescribing it unless it was for an FDA approved reason. People were in a panic and looking for anything they could get their hands on to stay away from the dreaded coof. Then Donald Trump mentions it might be useful and suddenly science says otherwise. The liberal machine went into action and told us that science says no. There really hadb't been any good studies but suddenly it wasn't possible that HQC could, even remotely, help with SARSCov2. There are so many people that would rather see the country burn to damn ground that let mean orange man even get a whiff of a win. The hatred is, and was, a larger driving force than people being protected.

Saying Trump said it is, at best, disingenuous, but that really won't stop you. You pound the agenda, beat the drum and show at a turn you don't really think about things, you read a headline and it becomes guiding principle. Trump was not the start of the HQC discussion in this country, but because he mentioned it that became the end of the discussion.

Of course now you will read every 5th word and come back with one of your stupid lines. Yes I can speak English. Yes I understand the current situation with Trump, and I understand the absolute onslaught of vitriol and propaganda that was thrown in his direction from the moment he garnered the Republican nomination. I understand the ig headed stubbornness of people that could not, for a second, overcome their hate of the man to let him lead this country in the capacity he was elected for. But again, you will and insult people instead of thinking for yourself.

Why on Earth should anyone actually post anything more than a dismissive quip at you when you don't really care to debate points, you are here to insult, fight and virtue signal. You are here to troll people that you have deemed beneath you because they simply do not agree with your OPINION on things.

And no, you do not say things outright. You dance around the issue. You have very selective memory on that it seems, but that isn't surprising since you have selectie reading skills as well.

to be fair I hae been entertaining a 9 year old the last couple of days and discussion of anything with pit is pretty much the same mindset.

That makes it all okay then.

Just on this one point :

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/tru...in-treating-early-stage-coronavirus.html

Trump was asked about a video he shared on Twitter that went viral across social media platforms that claimed hydroxychloroquine is “a cure for Covid.”


And then there is:

https://www.theguardian.com/science...cure-increases-deaths-global-study-finds

Hydroxychloroquine, the anti-malarial drug Donald Trump is taking to prevent Covid-19, has been linked to increased deaths in patients treated with it in hospitals around the world, a study has shown.

A major study of the way hydroxychloroquine and its older version, chloroquine, have been used on six continents – without clinical trials – reveals a sobering picture. Scientists said the results meant the drug should no longer be given to Covid-19 patients except in proper research settings.



Hey - I'm not a Dr and I'm not saying these news reports are 100% true - I certainly doubt they are 100% false.... But yes, Trump helped lead the charge and 100% supported the idea that HQC was a viable treatment.

Actually it had not been approved nor pier reviewed. "Floated around" seems to be your go to here. Face it, when actually tested it doesn't work, it didn't work and it won't work. You go on with your gibberish. Trump stated on national TV about a medication that was not approved nor was properly tested. Then and only then were doctors flooded with calls. That's not something a president should do. So you go on with your BS to rationalize that. That's pretty much all you have at this point.

And I did not state that it had, or had not been, peer reviewed. I just watched a bunch of people exploding because Trump suggested that it could be useful.


And there it is. This is the point precisely. You refuse to ever have a debate, you have mud slinging sessions. When people respond you play the victim while slinging more. At least you don't follow me around the forum like you do with Vers. I suppose that is, in itself, a blessing.

You forgot to mention his constant whatabotism, deflections, and virtue signaling.

I mentioned virtue signaling, but I did fail to mention the rest. Thank you, I will try to do better next time.

You know things have gone off the deep end when they are not pier reviewed… the other peers just can’t rely on it.

Oh Boy…. Thanks for the laugh.

If you're responding to me, I have no idea what your post means.

j/c...


Moderna Sues Pfizer/BioNTech

Moderna is suing rival company Pfizer and German drugmaker BioNTech for allegedly copying its technology behind the development of the first COVID-19 vaccines. In a lawsuit filed in the US and Germany yesterday, Moderna accuses Pfizer/BioNTech of infringing patents it filed between 2010 and 2016, saying the companies copied elements of its mRNA technology (see 101) without permission, including a chemical modification that avoids triggering an undesirable immune response.

Moderna says it is neither seeking to remove the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine off the market nor stop sales of it, but it is seeking unspecified monetary damages for sales beginning after March 8, 2022. In March, Moderna said it would not enforce its patents against manufacturers in 92 developing nations to address global vaccine inequity but signaled it would enforce it in wealthy nations as vaccine supply was no longer a barrier to access.

The Food and Drug Administration first granted emergency authorization to the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in December 2020, followed by the Moderna vaccine a week later.

"No fair! You were saving lives using our technology!!"

The only people whining here are you and Eve trying to excuse trump getting people to hound their doctors for unapproved medications that didn't fight covid. Excusing the actions of idiot trump isn't something rational people do or find worthy of discussion. I've tried having discussions with you. You just turn nasty and attack. You just hate it when I turned the tables on you. Deal with it. Or don't. I really don't give a damn.

And eve is the nastiest, most attacking poster on this board. It doesn't surprise me the two of you would agree with each other.

Except I am not whining, you just hear it like that because you have this idea you are so right in everything you think there is no way anything else is possible. The sad part is you are the most toxic person this place has, by far. BUt hey, you think you are wonderful so it *must* be true.

You never have discussions with people, you have discussion at people. And when people don't buy you ipse dixit you resort to insults, mocking and all manner of deflection. You do you, enjoy your misery.

And there you have it. You and your whining cronies have spoken. You have tried to make excuses why it's okay for a president to go on TV and tell the American people "I have heard" or "I hear a lot of people saying", giving them false hope about an unconfirmed medication that was proven not to help Covid at all, is something that should be accepted or okay. While the strain of Covid at the time had Americans dying in masses people were flooding their doctors with calls and requests for medication that didn't work. You have tried to make excuses for that as if that's okay. Well it's not.

And then you have people seemingly applauding that. No wonder this country is so screwed up right now. I've tried having discussions with you before. You just end up attacking when you get cornered. Not my problem. There is no room for discussing the indefensible. That's a you problem.

Ha Ha Ha…..Yeah I eat apples and oranges and have not had covid. Good sound science.

He thinks that's the basis for a discussion.

every politician reacts and says things. BUt TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP is bad orange man and he has to be perfect.


I bet you believed 6 feet would save you