DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Fire Joe Woods

Just kidding! There is no chance that Stefanski fires Woods.

The over-reaction post of the month award goes to...

Are you serious? How many 4th qtr meltdowns do you want to see before realizing there's a defensive management problem? Even in our playoff year we were doing that....remember the Cowboys and Titans games?

Being at the game and watching with Columbusdawg, you could just see a very unsure defense.

Clueless coverage and very under coached

I'm not saying more

We all witnessed it

yes !

Put the match to Woods !!

I thought we were blaming 4th quarter meltdowns on Baker...

I don’t care who we would have run it … it can’t be worse than giving up 34 points in the 4th quarters thus far

JW's got to go. ...Johnson, that is. I blame the damn logo on the field. Every time a DB saw it, they stopped and shook their heads.

Exactly! YES! We have a winner!!!! I don't know what's up with some fans but they've become psychologically conditioned to accept mediocrity after all these years of losing. It only takes a comparison to high bar championship teams to get it.

You have to lead by example. If someone isn't getting it done you fire them, bring someone else in, or make a damn adjustment. You don't just live with it.

The first step to building a great team is to set a standard. If you underperform there need to be consequences, mainly if it's a repeated pattern of let downs, bad game prep, losses. I've used this example 500 times, but take a look at Ohio State. Do you think they would let the type of stuff that happens on our defense fly? No way in hell!

Bottom line, you cannot accept mediocrity. Set the standard and enforce the rules. That's how you build a winning culture. Personally I don't believe Stefanski is tough enough to run the team.

The Browns OFFENSE< not Joe Woods coached defense,
But the Browns OFFENSE
had 2 drives near the end with a 24-?? lead, but a 2 score lead.

And the Browns on offense, after 3, 3 very pedestrian, lack energy, snaps that were slow developing handoffs on 2 of em,
the Browns OFFENSE faced 4th down and 26.
Twenty SIX, with the game on the line. And a team built to run the ball with leads.

I checked out 2 weeks ago, good thing I did, this whole NFL is just a factory of heartache.

I didn't even watch a large portion of this game, and was better off for it.

What ?

If you checked out 2 weeks ago then stay checked out

and if you're not watching don't post on something you have no clue on

the Browns had a 184 yds rushing to the Jets 93

and the Offense didn't give up a 13 point lead with 2:30 left in the game to lose

Damn !!

They are talking about sports betting coming to Ohio after Jan 1st. At least it is not here yet, or is it ?

Same Joe Woods Defense that let Trace Mcsorley and Lamar Jackson coming back from the locker room beat them with 2 minutes to go. And let Chad Freaking Henne run for 13 yards on 3rd and 14 in playoff game.

Actually about 1:40 in the game. Chubb scored after the 2 minute warning

Yeah they had the ball with probably 1:50 left to start the drive

j/c:

It's too early.

Our defense has been terrible and it should be better than it is. This is year 3. The holes in the D yesterday were mind-boggling. The lack of outside containment on our defensive left was bad. The blown coverages are inexcusable. The lack of pressure on the qb is disturbing.

However, firing him now does what? Please don't give me emotionally driven responses. Are we going to change schemes during the season? Are we going to force players who already seem intellectually lacking to learn a new scheme and techniques? Are we going to show desperation after just two games and a .500 record? Nah, that would be dumb.

I do think Woods needs to get the D to ramp it up or he will be gone at the conclusion of the season.

Do not make make an emotional decision. Instead, use logic and reason.

I sure hope so. The one we're using now is pathetic.

I’m not someone who wants to haphazardly blitz all the time and send guys and be Uber aggressive, but I also can’t stand playing on our heels and soft coverage either. It seems like we don’t get pressure nor do we cover lol. So dumb

How many more times do we have to see the same ^&*%$ from a Woods defense before we simply move on?

How many more pre-seasons will I have to point out the folly of "resting" starters before the damn season even starts? Only to watch this crap over and over again? We should be in full song by week 7-8.

Groundhog Day was funny and was meant to be funny.

Lol

Woods is not the right man for the job. The sooner we replace him the better. He isn't it. It's time to move on.

His entire defensive philosophy is a problem. Our team doesn't impose our will on the other team. Nobody seems to play with any emotion either. They mirror Joe Woods demeanor.

We need a field general on defense. Someone with fire. Someone who cares.

Our defense certainly doesn’t play with any urgency or passion. I watch other teams that gang tackle, fly to the ball, etc. We are just soft.

bro the scheme isn't the issue! its the fact that its year 3 and the defense still doesn't understand the scheme! its the constant miscommunication and being out of position, which lets me know that the scheme isn't being taught properly. itd be one thing if WAS a scheme problem, but we would see evidence such as that. for example, there wouldn't be much of ANY series were the defense looks like a playoff caliber D. we've seen plenty of flashes of that. we've seen plenty of times our defense shutting down offenses.

what we see is undisciplined football. you dont have to change the scheme to enforce some damn discipline. you dont have to change the scheme to make sure players understand their assignments. you have to COACH that, and clearly Woods isn't effective in coaching that into the players. it would be the same thing if the offense had these problems, such as getting dumb penalties or not knowing the plays and assignments. the scheme wouldnt be the problem, it'd be the OC/HC not coaching with discipline being the emphasis.

look at the raiders last season. they didn't change the scheme when Gruden got fired. it was a new voice coaching the same scheme, and they got to the playoffs.

yesterday was a very crazy day for the NFL. Ravens blew the biggest lead of the week to the dolphins, fight in Bucs-Saints game, etc...


but i woke up this morning still hot. joe woods gotta get fired for that. unexceptable, and i dont care what happened around the league. he's responsible for the browns defense, and under his watch we've had far too much blow coverages and confusion in the secondary from a guy who literally specializes in DB coaching. dude gotta go.

and stefanski needs to be catching more heat as well. this is HIS team after all, and the bucks stops with him. he's clearly not drilling the importance of discipline and other factors on the defensive side of the ball, including NOT making the command decision to yank felton off the damn field over his horrible play on punt returns.

It's called coaching adjustments. If we don't have a coach who can't do that, then yes, a change needs to be made.

The buck stops with Stefanski, but his side of the ball held up its end of the bargain yesterday.

I’m at a loss for words as to how the defense can lose that game.

My concern is that if this continues throughout the entire season, Haslam gets trigger happy and cleans house. In fact, I'm mentally preparing myself for this scenario.

I do not trust Haslam.

Fair enough. I have a question: IF the D cannot get it done (with players who already seem intellectually lacking to learn a new scheme and technique) and Woods is fired, what is the likelihood that ANYONE hired to coach these guys can actually be successful? New teacher, same dummies theory. Me, I change the dummies. An NFL team cannot succeed with guys who cannot grasp football at the NFL level. Interested to hear your football thoughts. Thanks.

This is a direct reflection of the team leadership. Stefanski is nothing more than an offensive coordinator. He is NOT a leader of men. Woods demeanor is the same. This team is passive and soft. It's not going anywhere under this leadership. Period.

No, it didn't. He's the Head Coach, they're ALL his side of the ball.

Is Rob Ryan available? LOL What we did yesterday is almost impossible to do but yet we did it and we were the last ones to do it. Something like yesterday's fiasco happening so early in the season, could derail the rest of the year and we sure don't need any added destractions.

I do agree that this is a Stefanski issue as well as a Woods thing. Both need ownership.

I've always questioned Woods play calling - no matter how the stats told a story of a solid defense.

With that said - I don't think firing Woods in week 2 is a solution that makes sense. And I don't think it's a solution KS or Berry would seek. jmo

Oh, there is no way Woods, or anyone else on this coaching staff, is getting fired this early.... but, the heating pads on every one of their chairs should now be turned on and warming up.

They all have what is arguably the most talented rosters the Cleveland Browns have had since The Return, and it isn't even close, and yet these things are still occurring with enough consistency to prove that it isn't being addressed in any way.

* These things are happening with enough regularity that it shows it to be a coaching issue.

Which I have been saying for 3-years. Stefanski is a system coach that cannot or will not change or adjust. He doesn't have the leadership skills to lead or inspire his people. He also doesn't believe in playing to his players strengths. It's his way of the highway. We have a bunch of good players playing the game under Stefanski's ideals instead of their skill sets. People are calling for Woods head but what difference will that make when the ultimate person responsible just skates along untouched. Last year, all we heard was it was the QB that couldn't hold the lead. Two games into the 2022 season and 2 games with double digit leads being blown - Ah, just exactly like last year accept now we want to blame the defense. So, you have to ask yourself, is it the defensive players, Woods, or the Head Coach? Some of the names have changed but the coaching philosophy hasn't and we're getting the same old tired results. Last time I checked, Woods was hand selected by Stefanski. Since Stefanski hired him to deploy his defensive scheme, shouldn't Stefanski be responsible for the results? Of course, he should, it's his hand selected coaches and players.

Like I said earlier this preseason, if Stefanski and the Browns go 5-12 this season he'll have a sub-500 3-year record of 25-26. With the money that's been spent, the players acquired, and the lofty expectations - producing a losing record over 3-years would be inexcusable.

The Browns were expected to win this season. They have the talent, and they have the schedule, especially early in the season to get off to a fast start. If that doesn’t happen, then Stefanski should certainly be in trouble. That may be more so with public opinion at that point but as we have seen with other things, once the momentum gets going in the world of public opinion, it’s hard to stop.

The Browns have gone through 12 coaches over the past 23 seasons. Just in the last 10 years, the team has had Freddie Kitchens, Gregg Williams, Hue Jackson, Mike Pettine, Rob Chudzinski, and Pat Shurmur at the head coaching position. Williams is the only one, outside of Stefanski's current record, Williams posted a Browns career winning mark at 5-3.

Before them, the last coach in Browns history with a winning record was Marty Schottenheimer who was there from 1984 through the 1988 season and had a 44-27 record. Bill Belichick, currently of the New England Patriots, once coached the Browns from 1991 through 1995 and finished with a sub-500 record at 36-44.

Posting a losing record is the quickest way out of Cleveland. Leading your team from a playoff contender to 2 consecutive losing seasons will make Stefanski's seat hot for sure. How hot remains to be seen but if the first 2-weeks are any indication of things to come that seat will be a raging fire by seasons end.

j/c...

Seems like we had these same issues at the start of last season until Walker got injured and JJ3 took over all the defensive play calling.
Maybe Denzel is on to something

I'm not really on the "fire Woods Now!" bandwagon. I agree with you that it's too early. But my feelings may very well change later and here's why. If the Browns keep playing the way they are, they aren't going to win many games. That's yet to be seen but the early indications are not good. Once it is, if it is determined, that the Browns simply have almost no shot at making the playoffs, I think it may very well be the time to make such a move.

The reasoning why is that it would give the team more time in the new D to be ready for next season. If say you get 6 or 8 games under your belt in the new D this season, it simply gives you more time in the new system than waiting to make such a move and try to install it all in the off season.. I understand that as of now watson is scheduled to come back in week 13, the 12th game, but most people seem to think, and I believe rightfully so, that he will be rusty. So at some point you have to consider whether it makes more sense to invest time in what may appear to be a wasted season or invest that time in the future.

Let's put it this way, watson will be the full time starter for the Browns in 2023. A full 17 games. He will have four years left on his contract. That's four years that we know the Browns will have a chance to be a contender to go all the way. Do we want to go into 2023 with a totally new defense? Or would it be better to go into it with a defense already somewhat familiar with the new D in real NFL game time?

I'm sure the answer will vary from person to person but I certainly think that's food for thought.

I just looked up the stats, and in 9 games during the 2020 playoff season, we allowed double digit scoring in the 4th qtr, including the huge almost comebacks by the Cowboys and Titans. We had 5 last year, and we were behind in a lot of those games so the opponents didn't have put up points to come back. We did let San Diego score 26 in the 4th. This is a problem that has plagued the Joe Woods led defense since he's been here....and it has not been fixed. Not firing him is the same as giving a 1-31 Hue Jackson another shot. We saw what happened there.

It does seem that we are once again going down the same Rabbit Hole.

This link takes you to an article discussing Woods secondary coverage issues from the 2021 season...

Miscommunication or technique: Browns need to fix defensive issues
The defensive breakdowns against the Chargers were clear to see, even if the reasons why were not.
Oct 15, 2021

2021 link