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vers..you can't make this stuff up...YOU POST A LINK, FROM A WEBSITE YOU FREQUENT...and you have no answer as to how the site grades WIN RATE... rofl

Like I said, this WIN RATE STAT....MEANINGLESS..!

That does not mean Wills is not improved, but sometimes numbers used to measure a players performance don't amount to much... notallthere

Maybe they should add a category such as WIN RATE with CHIP BLOCK ASSIST... thumbsup




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What in the hell are you talking about? The article clearly explained how the grading process works. And it is not a site I frequent. I did a quick search. It was right at the top of the page. Your claim was fabricated. I recognize you won't admit to being wrong, but others will see the truth if they take the time to read the article. You laughing emoji won't change that.

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PFF GRADES THROUGH 3-weeks

TOTAL OFFENSIVE GRADES:
1st of 57 - RB -Chubb - 88.4 **
1st of 71 - G -Teller - 84.4 **
3rd of 33 - QB -Brissett - 78.7 **
7th of 71 - G - Bitonio - 75.4 **
19th of 106 - WR -Cooper - 74.5 **
3rd of 65 - TE -Njoku - 73.4 **
___________________________________3 starters currently performing at Backup Level
27th of 70 - OT - Conklin - 69.0 **
11th of 37 - C - Pocic - 67.5 **
33rd of 70 - OT - Hudson - 67.4
34th of 57 - RB - Hunt - 64.1
NR - WR - Schwartz - 63.7
21st of 65 - TE - Bryant - 62.2 **
___________________________________2 starters currently performing below acceptable level
79th of 106 - WR - DPJ - 59.5 **
57th of 70 - OT - Wills - 56.7 **
NR - WR - Felton - 56.1
107th of 109 - WR - Bell - 48.1
NR - G - Dunn - 40.8

TOTAL DEFENSIVE GRADES:
3rd of 104 - Edge - Garrett - 91.6 **
10th of 104 - Edge - Clowney - 89.2 **
5th of 78 - LB - Walker - 82.7 (Injured, out for season)
7th of 78 - LB - JOK - 80.0 **
NR - LB - Takitaki - 78.6
29th of 103 - CB - Emerson - 69.7 **
___________________________________2 starters currently performing at Backup Level
31st of 76 - S - Johnson - 65.9 **
56th of 103 - CB - Newsome - 61.3 **
___________________________________5 starters currently performing below acceptable level
NR - DT - Winfrey - 59.8
65th of 120 - DT - Bryan - 58.3 **
85th of 104 - Edge - Wright - 53.7
NR - S - Harrison - 50.2
NR - Edge - Rochell - 49.9
67th of 76 - S - Delpit - 45.7 **
NR - DT - Togiai - 45.3
NR - Edge - Winovich - 42.4
115th of 120 - DT - Elliott - 38.8 **
73rd of 78 - LB - Phillips - 38.0 **
NR - CB - Green - 32.6
100th of 103 - CB - Ward - 31.5 **

NR = Not Ranked due to not having snap minimum
** = Denotes starter

SCALE:
100 - 90 = Elite level of play
85-89 = Pro Bowler level of play
84-70 = Starter level of play
69-60 = Backup level of play
59-0 = Replaceable level of play


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
What in the hell are you talking about? The article clearly explained how the grading process works. And it is not a site I frequent. I did a quick search. It was right at the top of the page. Your claim was fabricated. I recognize you won't admit to being wrong, but others will see the truth if they take the time to read the article. You laughing emoji won't change that.

vers...nnaaa...this information that YOU POSTED but you have no answer to A GOOD QUESTION that is based on the actual play on the field...

It's obvious to me that you didn't review the game video close enough to realize that the coaching staff was giving Wills some help...NOT A DAMN THING WRONG WITH THAT...it's good use of our offensive personnel, imo.

But to make up a stat that shows aN OLineman's WIN RATE, knowing that Lineman is being assisted by teammates...that stat is rather bogus, you must admit..!! grin




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When I typed "ouch I bumped my elbow."

I was thinking everyone would get that I was poking fun at myself.

Pit thought I was serious. Glad to make myself clear.

We can not walk in Myles's shoes. (to big anyway). I don't have a clue how he will feel come Sunday.

He is a young stud in his prime. He is conditioned to play in pain. He has to decide the difference between pain and injury. And what he can deal with.

Maybe they play him in situations.

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From the article:


Quote
Improved handling of double-teams: We corrected a number of false positive rush-wins when a rusher beats one lineman in the double-team but not the other. Additionally, we were previously tallying only double-teams between two offensive linemen. Now we tally double-teams regardless of the position combination, so running backs and tight ends count too.

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This is a thing of beauty on many levels.


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Nick Chubb is a pleasure to watch.

He can do it all but what I love is his focus to always get forward.

IMO right now he stands alone. It is a perfect match with our line and scheme and the combination of Nick and Kareem.

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i dunno why people are hating on Wills.

is he not part of the offensive line that has us leading the league in rushing? or is that another LT that i'm not aware of starting for the browns.

is he not the LT that isn't letting JB getting destroyed from the blind side and allowing him to make really good plays in the passing game? or is that another LT starting for the browns this year that i'm not aware of.

he doesn't need to be the best LT in the league. he just need to continue doing what he's doing, which is helping us lead the league in rushing and making JB look like a legit NFL starting QB.

i get we all love stats and grades, but at some point the eye test still needs to the primary factor. and the eye test says Wills is doing just fine so far.


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Wills is inconsistent, but we can win w/him. Our OL has been--and continues to be--and huge strength for this team.

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Originally Posted by Swish
i dunno why people are hating on Wills.

is he not part of the offensive line that has us leading the league in rushing? or is that another LT that i'm not aware of starting for the browns.

is he not the LT that isn't letting JB getting destroyed from the blind side and allowing him to make really good plays in the passing game? or is that another LT starting for the browns this year that i'm not aware of.

he doesn't need to be the best LT in the league. he just need to continue doing what he's doing, which is helping us lead the league in rushing and making JB look like a legit NFL starting QB.

i get we all love stats and grades, but at some point the eye test still needs to the primary factor. and the eye test says Wills is doing just fine so far.


He was the 10th overall pick in his draft. There were other OTs available to compare against...many people (not necessarily me...or you) thought him transitioning from RT to LT wouldn't work out. The criticism may be unfair or even harsh at times...or may be spot on...but it is what it is due to ^.

Throw in the slight hints from Teller last year that JWs work ethic could maybe be amped up and you get some critical takes.

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i agree. and yea he's been inconsistent, but posters trying act like dude is Cam Irving or something. Wills is still young with plenty of time to get better and develop consistency.


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I think he was battling through minor injuries most of last season and that was the cause of most of the inconsistencies. Someone posted above "He's healthy now" - that's a huge part of his play this year. I still have faith in him developing and improving and being very good.


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j/c...




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I think we all guessed/recognised you can't flip a car 'several times' without going pretty fast. Even a light weight sports car like MG's Porsche. Honestly - 65 in a 45 isn't as bad as I feared. Bottom line.... hope he gets healthy - hope he participates in some driving school which will probably be mandatory, and move on and be better and safer the other side of this.

Last edited by mgh888; 09/29/22 11:28 AM.

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65 in a 45 isn't all that bad, except that the roads were wet & slick.
It was poor judgement that turned out extremely well for him; though, I haven't seen any further update on his passenger's status.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
I think we all guessed/recognised you can't flip a car 'several times' without going pretty fast. Even a light weight sports car like MG's Porsche. Honestly - 65 in a 45 isn't as bad as I feared. Bottom line.... hope he gets healthy - hope he participates in some driving school which will probably be mandatory, and move on and be better and safer the other side of this.
They're citing him with failure to control. They know his record of "speed"... but can't accurately predict it in this case. It was probably much faster than 65. You have troopers being lenient because they're happy they weren't prying dead bodies from the car... and probably think there is a good chance Myles has learned his lesson.


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Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by mgh888
I think we all guessed/recognised you can't flip a car 'several times' without going pretty fast. Even a light weight sports car like MG's Porsche. Honestly - 65 in a 45 isn't as bad as I feared. Bottom line.... hope he gets healthy - hope he participates in some driving school which will probably be mandatory, and move on and be better and safer the other side of this.
They're citing him with failure to control. They know his record of "speed"... but can't accurately predict it in this case. It was probably much faster than 65. You have troopers being lenient because they're happy they weren't prying dead bodies from the car... and probably think there is a good chance Myles has learned his lesson.


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Hmm... didn't know we had a witness. Did the witness see Rudolph crossing the road??


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The four legged one or the two legged one?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by mgh888
I think we all guessed/recognised you can't flip a car 'several times' without going pretty fast. Even a light weight sports car like MG's Porsche. Honestly - 65 in a 45 isn't as bad as I feared. Bottom line.... hope he gets healthy - hope he participates in some driving school which will probably be mandatory, and move on and be better and safer the other side of this.
They're citing him with failure to control. They know his record of "speed"... but can't accurately predict it in this case. It was probably much faster than 65. You have troopers being lenient because they're happy they weren't prying dead bodies from the car... and probably think there is a good chance Myles has learned his lesson.

it could've been faster. but when i look at the damage and the environment, him wrecking around 65 isn't surprising.

people gotta remember what that day was up here. it was the day that it rained HARD on and off all day. then you have to take into account that its a Porsche, so he's on summer tires, being either the michelin super cups or the pirelli p zeros. not bragging here, but i had the bmw M6 with pirelli's, and i can tell you for a fact that i wouldn't be caught dead driving the M6 in the kind of weather Myles was driving in, cause the ass end of that car is BEGGING to slide out. so we got that factor, hydroplaning, etc. Lead has/had a corvette Z06, and im sure he can tell you how dangerous the ride could be with summer tires even in DRY conditions.

then of course, after saying all that, its a combination of that plus he's on a backroad trying to show off with his girl in the car, which typically never ends well for anybody, especially mustang drivers.

im just glad everybody seems to be ok, and the one thing we ARENT having to talk about is him being drunk or something like this. good old fashion car wreck.


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Originally Posted by FATE
Hmm... didn't know we had a witness. Did the witness see Rudolph crossing the road??

He may not have swerved in that case.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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What happened to the "deer"? saywhat

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Originally Posted by SuperBrown
What happened to the "deer"? saywhat

He's "third fiddle"... behind a crappy QB and an over-rated rookie.


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Originally Posted by Swish
i dunno why people are hating on Wills.

is he not part of the offensive line that has us leading the league in rushing? or is that another LT that i'm not aware of starting for the browns.

is he not the LT that isn't letting JB getting destroyed from the blind side and allowing him to make really good plays in the passing game? or is that another LT starting for the browns this year that i'm not aware of.

he doesn't need to be the best LT in the league. he just need to continue doing what he's doing, which is helping us lead the league in rushing and making JB look like a legit NFL starting QB.

i get we all love stats and grades, but at some point the eye test still needs to the primary factor. and the eye test says Wills is doing just fine so far.

swish...I don't believe folks are "hating on Wills".

Fact is, most believe Wills is showing progress now that he is not hobbled by an ankle injury and getting some tutoring from JT.

That said, we do need to be realistic about Wills progress...he is at the "beginning" with a ways to go before he overcomes his disappointing performance of a year ago.


CONCERNING YOUR COMMENT BELOW..click PLAY on the link below and watch...

Quote
is he not the LT that isn't letting JB getting destroyed from the blind side and allowing him to make really good plays in the passing game? or is that another LT starting for the browns this year that i'm not aware of.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/highsmith-puts-wills-jr-in-spin-cycle-for-third-down-sack-on-brissett



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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
The four legged one or the two legged one?

have you ever seen both of them together?

Couincidence? I think not.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Willis isn't J Thomas, he looked BAD on that play, but he's rated pretty good by PFF on pass blocking....next subject, PAUL HARVEY the rest of the story.....I supported Miles about the deer and YADDA, YADDA, YADDA....now he's doing 65 in 45 on rainy roads...he's a TEAM LEADER- Browns doing NOTHING against their SUPER STAR isn't good....FINE his butt, heavily ...he bitched about rookie DT not being a professional.....calling the kettle black....he owes the team an apology. Availability counts....this sucks for a so called leader.


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Originally Posted by hitt
Willis isn't J Thomas, he looked BAD on that play, but he's rated pretty good by PFF on pass blocking....next subject, PAUL HARVEY the rest of the story.....I supported Miles about the deer and YADDA, YADDA, YADDA....now he's doing 65 in 45 on rainy roads...he's a TEAM LEADER- Browns doing NOTHING against their SUPER STAR isn't good....FINE his butt, heavily ...he bitched about rookie DT not being a professional.....calling the kettle black....he owes the team an apology. Availability counts....this sucks for a so called leader.

Wills PFF Grade on pass blocking actually isn't very good. His overall offensive grade is 56.7. His pass blocking grade is 59.6 which has him ranked 47th of 67 OT's ranked in pass blocking. Just an FYI, Wills run blocking grade is currently 51.3 which is 59th of 67 rated OT's.


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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
What in the hell are you talking about? The article clearly explained how the grading process works. And it is not a site I frequent. I did a quick search. It was right at the top of the page. Your claim was fabricated. I recognize you won't admit to being wrong, but others will see the truth if they take the time to read the article. You laughing emoji won't change that.

vers...nnaaa...this information that YOU POSTED but you have no answer to A GOOD QUESTION that is based on the actual play on the field...

It's obvious to me that you didn't review the game video close enough to realize that the coaching staff was giving Wills some help...NOT A DAMN THING WRONG WITH THAT...it's good use of our offensive personnel, imo.

But to make up a stat that shows aN OLineman's WIN RATE, knowing that Lineman is being assisted by teammates...that stat is rather bogus, you must admit..!! grin

Well, according to Steve's poast, Wills is failing no matter if he is getting help or not.


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I think intelligent people understand that using only one source is not a good way to measure things unless you are only attempting to convince others of your own particular biased opinion. For example, in this case a person who wants to say that Wills is really good would ignore the PFF score and the tape and point just to the pass blocking won/loss rate. A person who wants to say he sucks would ignore the won/loss pass blocking rate and the tape and only use the PFF score. Both would ignore that it is early in the season.

An unbiased person who only seeks the truth would consider the PFF grade, the Won/Loss pass blocking grade, the tape, and the fact that the data is limited due to it being early in the season.

I think you already know all this....LOL.......but, it's worth noting.

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Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted by FATE
Hmm... didn't know we had a witness. Did the witness see Rudolph crossing the road??

He may not have swerved in that case.

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IMO, many have gone "stats crazy" in an attempt to determine if a player's performance is acceptable or not. Those who have difficulty judging the play on the field are attempting to find a method based on "numbers" and to rely on those numbers to determine a players performance.

Take the video clip of Wills getting beat by the Steelers Highsmith...I wonder how this Analytics outfit scored that play..?
...clearly, Wills got beat badly by Highsmith..but it took Highsmith 3.5 seconds (or more) to get to Brissett.
...so according to the parameters stated, Brissett did not get sacked in the first 2.5 seconds of that play, meaning Wills did his job by giving Brissett 2.5 seconds to throw the ball.

At some point, the "stats guys" are going to be forced to make a judgement call as to how they grade the Highsmith play. So, if those reviewing the video are forced to make judgement calls based on how they viewed that play...how reliable are the stats they are attempting to use to judge the play of our OT..?

Those who can judge a players performance based on the video they watch while understanding the value of some stats, but also understand that some stats are "unreliable"...they may be the best suited at judging a players performance...jmo..mac




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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think intelligent people understand that using only one source is not a good way to measure things unless you are only attempting to convince others of your own particular biased opinion. For example, in this case a person who wants to say that Wills is really good would ignore the PFF score and the tape and point just to the pass blocking won/loss rate. A person who wants to say he sucks would ignore the won/loss pass blocking rate and the tape and only use the PFF score. Both would ignore that it is early in the season.

An unbiased person who only seeks the truth would consider the PFF grade, the Won/Loss pass blocking grade, the tape, and the fact that the data is limited due to it being early in the season.

I think you already know all this....LOL.......but, it's worth noting.

The problem with your breakdown is you automatically assume a poster as being biased if they are critical of a player's documented play. Case in point, I see no one - not a single poster - saying the PFF Grades are early in the season, are limited, or should be ignored for players like Garrett, Chubb, Tiller, Bitonio, Clowney, or Brissett. For those guys, PFF is gospel, and I haven't seen a single post claiming anyone as being biased or to proceed with caution because it's the early season or worst yet - we've played bottom tiered teams to this point.

Instead, now we will use the comment that only an intelligent person would understand that using only one source (the holy grail of sources if your players are rated exceptional) that the person is trying to convince others of your own biased opinion. This couldn't be further from the truth.

In regard to Wills:
Wills has struggled mightily since entering the league after being made to switch from RT to a position - LT - a position that he has never played before in his life. If you look at how he's actually performed at the position, there's major concerns that the trend clearly points out.

As a rookie in 2020, Wills PFF Grade for the season was 62.6 which was ranked 57th of 79 OT's ranked. In 2021, Wills was injured but playing most of the year. On a team that lets fans use the injury excuse for some to explain poor production but not for others, Wills injury would appear to some to have been an issue for his production level where his PFF Grade in 2021 was 66.1 which ranked him 52nd of 83 OT's ranked. In 2022, now healthy by all reports, Wills has started out after 3-weeks far worse than he performed the previous 2-years. After 3-weeks, Wills PFF Grade is 56.7 which currently ranks him 57th of 70 OT's ranked. The trend is showing he's performing worse than the 2 previous years. He's also in his 5th year option decision point where the Browns must decide if Wills is worth over 20M for 2024.

Is this really the type of production we should expect from a top 10 first round pick? Considering the 2022 production of some of the other OT's taken in 2020: Thomas NYG picked 4th has a 2020 PFF Grade of 90.1, Wirfs TBB picked 13th has a PFF Grade of 75.8, Steele DAL was undrafted and has a PFF Grade of 71.0, and Becton NYJ picked 11th (who's had season ending injuries in 2021 and 2022) had a PFF Grade of 74.4 in 2020. Comparatively speaking, Wills looks like a bust when you stack him up with the players he was drafted with and the poor PFF Grades he's producing. This is not being biased, this is looking at the level of production exhibited on the field where to date - he's having his worst year as a Browns OT while playing bottom tiered teams these first 3 games.

So sir, an unbiased person who only seeks the truth would consider what the player has actually produced over 2-years and 3 games rather than living in the world of possible potential that has yet to raise it head to notability. In fact, only a biased person trying to convince others of their own biased opinion would discount the production level of poor performance in 31 starts as being early in the current season and limited when the numbers consistently show a completely different story.


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Here is an article that reviews the tape to examine Wills' performance.



Nothing is showing up on my screen. Here is a link to the article. You can watch the videos from here.


https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Last edited by Versatile Dog; 09/30/22 12:59 PM.
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Face it Dummy - you aren't intelligent enough to understand these things. Just accept it.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
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They will accentuate the good PFF grades on Browns players and try to undermine the bad ones. You've been around here long enough I thought you knew how that worked by now.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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We need to hire the Dolphins medical staff... pronto.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Originally Posted by FATE
We need to hire the Dolphins medical staff... pronto.

This.

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