DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2022 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Chargers 30 Post Game

I agree. There have been positives in every game. We are so close to being a perennial contender that it's painful. But we just can't seem to get it right. AND that is more deflating than being flat-out awful.

Not sure yet if this is true, but heard a rumor that the Browns are planning on removing all the seating in the end zones... I guess they plan on replacing them with bleachers that collapse in the 4th quarter.....

We're close OCD but not being able to stop the run is our Achilles heel. If we had 2 Good run stopping DT, we would be 5-0 right now. They would have made the difference. Our O is doing pretty good even with JB and our WR group. I said it on another post we knew about our LOT at the DT position in late April after the draft and did nothing about it. That's our biggest problem

Nice football post, Cap. I kinda agree w/the pass to the endzone. I was surprised w/that call. The outside run turned out bad, but it is one of our signature runs and best plays. It's a toss that utilizes our Outside Zone blocking that has been a huge success for us. It didn't work so the geniuses thought it was a "dumb" play.

I'm of the same mind regarding how close this team is. Now, we have fans who are calling for mid-season coach firings, which is right on schedule for CLE fans. It has, after all, been 3 years. That is our conditioned attention span. As a fan, I totally understand the frustration that has come with this season, but I'm still in the camp that think they'll work it out. 2-3 plays per game establish the record. That's parity in the NFL. Those same few plays? 5-0, and fans are talking jewelry. After Game 5. In a 17-wk season.

Still think that CLE has a post-season shot if they are somewhere near .500 when DW takes his first snaps.

Trying to maintain perspective.

Positive posts are always nice to read

Being up by 14-0 is nice to see

Watching the Fans who paid way more than they should

to go to the game

hearing how loud they were

believing when they walk out of the stadium it'll

be cheers for winning

you're right ! all the positives to

lose and let the home base fans walk out

pissed off and heart broken again

the end of the day at a Browns game

isn't positive

IMO, it's delusional to believe that DW is going to step right in and take us to the playoffs. It's been nearly two years since he last played a meaningful game. Besides, JB is playing passably well, our offense not being part of our problem....

There have been many positives in all 5 of our games. We have a really good team in a lot of regards. Unfortunately we have a really bad teams in some key areas and it’s killing us.

This is why coaching is so important in the NFL. You're never going to have a perfect team. You actually have to motivate players and outsmart the other side. We do that on offense most of the time. We don't do it on defense. We are a rudderless ship on defense.

If I were the offense I'd be so frustrated with the defense. It's a huge indictment that our rookie 3rd round corner basically said guys on the defense don't have the want to.

There's a reason before the season I said the two keys to success were a top 5 defense and Stefanski out coaching the other side. I saw hoth of these problems coming a mile away. And here we sit at 2-3.

I get what you're saying. I was thinking from a personal perspective. Like I said, I am no play-caller, just a guy who watches the games. In a situation like our last drive, where we needed to move the ball into better FG position, I would be risk averse. Looking for plays where, worst case, we would not lose yards. Which would make me predictable, which is not good.

While I might not completely agree with some of the play calls, I will not come out and say this was a dumb play call, this was stupid, etc. Looking at it in hindsight, it's hard to be wrong. On that last drive, with the pass to the end zone, if DPJ scores a TD then everyone would be talking about what a great, gutsy call that was.

Good point about outsmarting the opponent. Our defense is consistently outsmarted. Out schemed, out flanked, etc. And then they turn unmotivated. And then it’s toast. It’s almost astounding how poorly our defense is coached.

I think the offense is coached well. That doesn’t mean the playcalling is always great, but as a unit they’re well coached.

KS problem is his defensive coordinator and lack of motivation.

I am not really defending Woods, but there are some other things to consider. I have seen us w/guys in perfect position to make plays and fail time and time again. JOK is a terrible tackler. Delpit is a good tackler, but is slow to recognize plays. How many times have guys missed tackles. Did you know that "Ekeler has gained +91 rushing yards over expected after this run, the most in a game by any player over the last two seasons?" You are a smart guy, so I know you understand what "yards over expected" means. Is that on the coach or the player? That's a rhetorical question.

I will be okay if we replace Woods at the end of the season if the D continues to stink. But, I do think we should be fair.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Steelers w/3 Head Coaches since 1969. Browns fans take note.

probably has more to do with the owners than coaches or fans!

KS coached teams seem to be regressing.

That is the opposite of a good coach.

Inability to consistently win close games is not an indication of a good coach.

On opposite ends here as I did believe KS was a good coach, as well as believed he would be our coach for the long foreseeable future.

But NO WAY can you say KS has improved over the last 3 years. He continues to cost us games.

So looking for opinions about the defense. I want to talk about a few things outside of what has been said. If you are seeing something different, cool..I want to hear it. Different views of it, help me see another angle and re-evaluate my thought process.

Issues I am seeing:

- there are other issues (that has been said) besides this, but I have seen a bunch of players not playing their roles. Examples, the goal line run where Ekeler walked into the right side of the end zone for a TD. Issue: Ward biting inside instead of worrying about outside containment. I've seen LBs / Safeties biting HARD inside on play actions, instead of diagnosing the play.

- last game, someone talk me through the defensive line. what I have seen on passing plays: Are the lineman not rushing their lanes? Is it the stunts that are causing this? But I swear Herbert could have ran almost every time b/c after the snap, the whole line was just jammed all together in the middle. It just looked like one big cluster _. I just didn't see any gap or lane integrity. Maybe I am just remembering wrong, but it just felt that way.

- Our LBs played bad. Sure, I understand the DTs taking pressure off them and that piece of it. But one some of the plays I focused on them, they're angles and sliding to fill the hole looked terrible. One play I remember. I think it was an off tackle run on the left side, JOK was inside seeing Eckler breaking it to outside (it was jammed right in front of him, so the runner wasnt getting anything out of there). Instead of sliding to his right and filling that outside hole, he took too long to diagnose that and ended up getting gobbled up by the guard or center. Eckler ended up having a big run.

Losing Anthony Walker didn't help. But our LBs are also putting a lot of pressure on DBs with their bad play. The DBs obviously have their own issues, but the LBs are putting more pressure on them. Since the RBs were consistently getting to the second level on runs.

- one small thing to bring up, may sound weird to say but Chase Winovich getting injured didn't help things in the early season. Injuries happen, I get it. I know he's not a top or above average DE. But having his presence for that veteran play would be beneficial for depth. He would be giving our ends a quick breather. Instead we are asking some big minutes out of our rookie and Rochell.

- I'm disappointed in Delpit. He was one of my breakout players. We have a lot of games in front of us, so players have plenty of time to improve / turn it around. But in your opinion, is it solely on he is just slow to react or do you think some of it has to do with overthinking b/c of inexperience and not just naturally reacting to what he sees?

I don't know all the answers, but it's football talk.

Point 1. Ward was dead wrong on that play. It actually concerned me that he would do that. I will add that our Edge guy did a poor job, as well. I can't remember who was in on that play.

Point 2. I thought we actually got some decent pressure on Herbert. He is very skilled w/his pocket presence. He almost always make subtle little moves where he slides up in the pocket or just off to the side to buy that extra half second of time. It was frustrating to watch, but that kid is a great young qb.

Point 3. Our LBers suck. They take horrible angles to the ball. Too weak to finish tackles. Their depth in the passing game is awful. I am very disappointed w/JOK right now because of all the hype.

Point 4. I don't know about Wino, but Thomas [my early pick as a situational pass rusher] and Rochelle are bad against the run. Like really bad. Not strong enough at the point of attack.

Point 5. I think Delpit plays hard and he is a good tackler when he gets his hands on you, but he is so slow to react in the passing game. It's frustrating to see how long it takes him to move. He will improve, but I don't think defending the pass will ever come close to being a strength.


Now, you have me all depressed.

haha, my bad.

Thanks for the answers.

Here, let me cheer you back up with some positives.

Berry's did a great job on the offensive side of the ball.

- They did a great job identifying a backup QB in Brissett. His leadership, team player, and play has done wonders for the offense. Ski and his offensive line has done a great job helping him with his play.

Think about this: The Steelers signed Trubisky and drafted Pickett. Trubisky went 3-4 games, then Tomlin decided to start Pickett....out of all teams to give him his first start is against the Bills. He ends up attempting 52 passes while running the ball 16 times... you know, all of this is a perfect recipe for a rookie QB in his first start. I know Trubisky wasn't lighting it up, but if Pickett starts bombing do you really go back to Trubisky?

- We lost our projected starting center Nick Harris. Berry drafted Deaton (who needed up on the IR), but also signed Pocic. Center was a question mark before the season started. Pocic has played solid, and we haven't talked about issues/ concern about our center position so far.

Think about this: How many teams can plug and play on the O-line like the Browns? Heck, on goal line we even use Froholdt as a full back.

- Berry brought in Cooper (which was basically a steal so far), Grant (sucks we don't get to see him this year), and Bell.

Think about this: We all were concerned about our receivers. Don't get me wrong an injury to one of our starters would cause for a big concern. But at this point in time, Cooper and DPJ has played well. This also helps getting Bell playing time but not being a main focus on the offense. So this takes some pressure off him to produce. Also...at this point in time, yea I keep reading about Schwartz on here. Well everyone else has been producing, so if the staff's thought is to keep having him learn on the job, then it's available (well, until it's not).

- Berry re-signed Njoku. He was all potential before the season.

Think about this: He's blocked well. He's been a solid to great player in the passing game. We are only five games in, but he's done a great job of catching and being reliable in the offense. Also to the last point: He's helped take pressure off our receivers since he's been a weapon.

Defense
I don't have a lot to add here

- Ward has played terrible, the positive is he's played great for the past few years. He can still turn his season around. Greedy should be coming back soon.

- Berry drafted Emerson, he's played solid for a 3rd round rookie.

- Berry drafted Newsome last year. He's played pretty solid so far.

- Berry just traded for Deion Jones, it wasn't a major pick and at least he's addressing the LB position.

Special Teams

- Berry signed Bojórquez. He has done well this year

Hope this helps

Thanks for bringing up the punter. Been meaning to mention how well I think he is playing. I was concerned when we signed him as a free agent, because Green Bay had horrendous special teams play last year. But he's been good for us.

Thanks Scott. Maybe you should put some of that in the Berry Fools Good [sic] thread? There are a lot of positives w/this team. Hell, I think the Chargers are one of the top teams in the league. And if York doesn't miss two kicks, we win the game.

Funny - the last two seasons we've lost a LOT of games where the kicker missed a FG or two - or maybe the D gave up 14+ points in the 4th Q. When it happened THEN it was an incompetent QB play and the blame was 100% Baker. Now that the guy despised by so many is gone, now we get the "excuses" that were unacceptable previously. Funny how that works.

This response wasn’t called for. I’m trying to have a conversation about our damn team.

Hey, sorry you feel that way. I have zero intention of and I do not believe I am stopping you from having your conversation with Vers.

Picture this, two people are having a good funny or positive conversation, a third hops in out of nowhere and says….hey, I heard your significant other cheating on u with your friend!

Does that conversation between the two stay the same? Or does the mood change because of it?

You may not believe it, but you are changing the whole dynamic/mood of the conversation.




MB

I don't think he was despised by all that many. Just like I don't think it is all that many who stick with the guy even today. It just dominates the conversation.

Talking about other posters has superseded talking about football. It's just a handful of posters who continually hijack threads w/their childish crap, but the board does nothing to stop them from doing it. It's why this place has went downhill and we've lost so many good posters.

Your analogy falls apart I am afraid. This is a public discussion forum - whatever and whoever posts a comment is going to get read and possibly a response from everyone and anybody. If you want to have a private conversation - I recommend a PM. Vers sends a lot of those and is very familiar.

You do it more than most - which is why so many respond to your outright hypocrisy.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here but maybe you don't understand how message boards are supposed to work. They're open to comments from anyone who registers and is reading them. It's an open forum. It isn't a private conversation between two people. That's just how it works. They do give you a function that allows private conversations or even limited group conversations privately. It's the PM feature. Oh and believe me when I tell you people use the hell out of it! lol

I hope you find this helpful and that in the future you don't have unrealistic expectations about a message board in regards to expecting it to work in a way in which it was never intended to.

I appreciate the responses. Thank you for educating me.

Do you know why I put "MB" at the bottom of my post? Message board.

I already knew the basic default response(s) I would receive to my post. It was obvious. I didn't expect much value or respect to another in the responses.


"They're open to comments from anyone who registers and is reading them. It's an open forum." and add Mgh's response to my response: With all due respect, no random person Is commenting on them. 99% of the people making these comments are long time posters from either the McCoy or the Hatfield side.

I don't care who's right or who's wrong on either side. I know there will be conflicts, that's obvious and fine. I have made a few snide remarks in some of my past posts and I know I will do it in the future. So I am not perfect either.

I've been reading this and the official board for 20 years. I read other boards too. This isn't my first rodeo. The long time posters are who controls the flow of this board. So the environment COULD be less toxic. But the issue is the responses are "that's just the way it is"

Ok, I wasted my time long enough. I know where this is headed and nothing will change the mindset. No worries. Enjoy your day

It's amazing how many football conversations are ruined because a very small group turns the conversation into a personality contest. If they are challenged, they reply that it's an open message board and we are all free to post what we want. Of course, that changes if one posts on a topic they don't like. So, they attack again. In numbers. They cry that the topic should not be discussed because a certain player is no longer on the team. Then, they start an OBJ thread. LMAO.....they are hilarious.

And there you go. I thought you claimed you weren't reading them? And as per usual your post is drivel. But then you wouldn't know that since you actually didn't read the responses would you?

#footballtalk
#trolling


#ironyatitsfinest

Sorry you felt that way. Interesting or telling you choose to chastise and put down the two polite replies - and ignore the trolling by Vers. Again - your right to post and reply the way you want to.

My 2 cents is that any poster can post off topic.
But a thread only gets dere]ailed when others respond to that post
If we would only ignore those off topic post and reply with a football post ...

Cool.

Jester is a bully. He constantly stirs up crap in an effort to belittle others. He's part of a group that cares more about former players and roots for the failure of our team. Besides that, he hurts my feelings.

Your answer is to ignore all of that and respond with stats from the last game? Or you would be the one derailing the thread? Seems more like rewarding bad behavior... and outright lies.

All good. I'll be the bad guy. I've read his bs for over ten years. I've tiptoed and tried to play nice because I know how incredibly fragile he is. When he decided to make me the enemy (and endlessly whine about me, publicly), I was done. Sorry, not sorry.

"99% of the people making these comments are long time posters from either the McCoy or the Hatfield side"

I just generalized both sides. Both sides are guilty. I am not pointing a finger at one specific person. If i start calling out every dang name then another Holy Dawgy war will start.

I do not need to validate if I am on a someones side (i'm not). I respect posters on both sides.

I have nothing more to say. If you respond, I would prefer a Roger that and drive on.

Mahalo.

To be clear.......I have not asked you-or anyone--to take sides. I just know that this thread had developed into a series of football discussions and that 888 jumped in and made it about personalities. I read your response and decided to give my opinion on the bullies. Take a look at how many times 888 talks about me every single day. Multiple times a day. Pit does it a lot, too. Then Fate rushes in and acts like I started it.

With that aside, if those guys are going to get on you for talking to me and/or not joining in on the attacks, then I completely understand if you don't want to have football discussions w/me anymore. Lord knows I would not wish this constant harassment on anyone else.

And now for your reading pleasure, back to football.

I was going to let it go... but what a douche-baggery post. No-one got anyone for talking with anyone else.... Oh well.