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Legend
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Don't sweat it, he's better than the last guy. And at this point, that's not a cheap dig.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Legend
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He’s regressing to what he is: not good. He was doing OK against bad teams who didnt know how we’d use him. The jig is up now and he’s not good.
We’re in for a very long few weeks
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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Can't do the weekly comparisons because Baker didn't play, but Jacoby was really bad yesterday.
I have noticed that he is often late on his deep throws. He has to see them open. He doesn't throw those passes w/anticipation. Take the first interception for example. The play was open for a huge gain down the right sideline. JB stares at it and then launches a high floater that was short, but more-so late.
He missed a lot of passes yesterday because he was late w/the ball and/or inaccurate. He is better when he drops back and has to zip the ball in on intermediate routes w/tight coverage. That's kind of odd, but it looks to be true.
The timing was off. He is not the kind of guy to elevate the team. He will probably have some more good games, but he put the ball in harm's way more times than I would have believed yesterday.
On a positive note, at least we don't have to read all the BS posts about how the OL was trying to get him killed; the WRs were running wrong routes; the drops, the receivers not fighting for the ball; how the playcalling was holding him back, etc, etc
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Legend
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His deep ball is quite bad. He was SO late on a few yesterday .. and he has a terrible habit of leading WRs right out of bounds (like Brady Quinn)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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He is late on most of his throws. Has been all year long. That 1/4 to 1/2 second is the difference between success and failure. He also hardly ever hits the receiver in stride. Throws are low and away, or over their heads, leading to less YAC.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Dawg Talker
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Newsflash - they both suck.
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2nd String
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2nd String
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At this point why not give first team reps to Mond
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Jacoby Brissett delivers speech that 'will stay in the locker room' share tweet email Cory Kinnan October 17, 2022 5:16 pm ET The 2022 season is on the brink of finality for the Cleveland Browns after yesterday’s beatdown at the hands of the New England Patriots. After the game, however, quarterback Jacoby Brissett had strong words for the team according to Anthony Poisal of the Browns. Brissett’s leadership in the locker room has been well-documented back to his time in Indianapolis, and that has carried to Cleveland with him. Myles Garrett had a strong response to Brissett’s words: “The man loves football… It’s his team. He loves being here, and he wants to win. It means a lot to him, which speaks to me. It’s early on in the season and we aren’t where we’re supposed to be, but it means a lot to him. It means enough for him to step up there and talk to us as teammates, the coaches, the other staff, and everyone involved.” (via Poisal) Words are just words, however, if there are no actions to follow. And the words of the Browns have rung hollow thus far through six games. Brissett is taking accountability for his poor play, but how will he and his teammates respond? Head coach Kevin Stefanski realizes the leader he has at quarterback as well. “He’s a leader… He’s been through a lot in his career, so I think it’s always good when he wants to impart those types of messages to the guys… Jacoby is battling. I know he can play better. I’ve seen him play better. He will play better. I’ve seen it.” (via Poisal) The Browns are now faced with back-to-back games against division rivals as they travel to the Baltimore Ravens before taking on the Cincinnati Bengals on Monday Night Football. They are down in the dumps at this point, but climbing to 2-0 in the division on Sunday will allow the Browns to build up a head of steam. Right tackle Jack Conklin put it best, stating, “Now, it’s our job to respond and take what he said, move forward, and fight our way back into position.” https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter
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Jacoby Brissett delivers speech that 'will stay in the locker room' share tweet email Cory Kinnan October 17, 2022 5:16 pm ET The 2022 season is on the brink of finality for the Cleveland Browns after yesterday’s beatdown at the hands of the New England Patriots. After the game, however, quarterback Jacoby Brissett had strong words for the team according to Anthony Poisal of the Browns. Brissett’s leadership in the locker room has been well-documented back to his time in Indianapolis, and that has carried to Cleveland with him. Myles Garrett had a strong response to Brissett’s words: “The man loves football… It’s his team. He loves being here, and he wants to win. It means a lot to him, which speaks to me. It’s early on in the season and we aren’t where we’re supposed to be, but it means a lot to him. It means enough for him to step up there and talk to us as teammates, the coaches, the other staff, and everyone involved.” (via Poisal) Words are just words, however, if there are no actions to follow. And the words of the Browns have rung hollow thus far through six games. Brissett is taking accountability for his poor play, but how will he and his teammates respond? Head coach Kevin Stefanski realizes the leader he has at quarterback as well. “He’s a leader… He’s been through a lot in his career, so I think it’s always good when he wants to impart those types of messages to the guys… Jacoby is battling. I know he can play better. I’ve seen him play better. He will play better. I’ve seen it.” (via Poisal) The Browns are now faced with back-to-back games against division rivals as they travel to the Baltimore Ravens before taking on the Cincinnati Bengals on Monday Night Football. They are down in the dumps at this point, but climbing to 2-0 in the division on Sunday will allow the Browns to build up a head of steam. Right tackle Jack Conklin put it best, stating, “Now, it’s our job to respond and take what he said, move forward, and fight our way back into position.” https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter Thanks for posting. Though to me (for whatever it's worth), this kind of player "speech" like the players only one after the Jets loss not only lacks any real meaning or hope, but stinks of the rah-rah desperation stuff of a team that has lost any semblance of identity. Brissett is a good guy. But our problems are not ones of "pulling together", team unity or getting through bad times. Players (especially on defense) are simply making fundamental football mistakes whether it be through scheme or lack of ability. Consistently. No unity speech is going to correct that, neither is Watson when he comes back - no matter how he plays. I don't quite buy that players are quitting on their coaches due to lack of faith or laziness. It's a lot simpler than that. Play sound, professional football on each and every down, cut out the ridiculous brain breezes, and these inspirational team speeches won't be taking place or necessary to report. Imo.
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FATE |
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With all the PFF talk going on today, I looked at the QB grades.
Jacoby fell down to 10th overall out of 36 graded qbs. Baker did not play, but remains last on the list.
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Thank you for that update....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Thanks, although it is a bummer that JB dropped from 7th overall to 10th. It was expected after that clunker game, but downward movement is not good.
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We are still better off with Brisset. They both aren't good, but at least Brisset doesn't have 5 batted passes every other game.
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We are still better off with Brisset. They both aren't good, but at least Brisset doesn't have 5 batted passes every other game. Jacoby is a 1325 yards 60% passer with a 6 TD to 5 TD ratio in 6 games. Baker is at 975 yards 55% and 4 TD's to 4 INT's in 5 games they are basically the same person.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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We are still better off with Brisset. They both aren't good, but at least Brisset doesn't have 5 batted passes every other game. Brisset has been ok... I think he's an upgrade over baker, but not much of one... has thrown INTs at the worst times in a couple of games... this last game he was awful.... hope he plays better against the Rats... but we need Watson ASAP
<><
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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Bring in Dobbs for a series or two if JB keeps putting up Baker-like #s.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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Legend
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Problem with this argument is the results.. we still lose and QB has a huge part of why. As far as JB vs BM, Baker 2018, 2019 looked better than Brissett could possibly dream of looking. Weve already seen the best of Jacoby, it doesn't get any better from here on out.. its all about survival until Dec 4 now, but I feel we will long be out of any playoff discussion by then so Watson will just be getting back in game shape.. this is a throwaway year.. I don't care what the team is saying. Everyone sees it.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Actually, if you're going to be so inclined to continue to beat up on a QB that isn't even here anymore, the least you could do is compare apples to apples instead of trying to prove your argument with pure trash. If you have to compare to satisfy your blatant hatred for the player, at least compare the replacement to the former's prior results before you get on here skipping through la la land like you proved something. The team as a whole has basically the same nucleus in 2020, 2021, and 2022. If you're hell bent on comparing Brissett's play to the former QB, at least compare it to whether we actually are getting better play or not on this team, the Cleveland Browns.
Brissett 2022 Browns - 2 wins, 4 losses - 124/206, 60.2% - 1326 yards - 6 TD's - 5 INT's - 88.4 QB Rating
Mayfield 2021 Browns - 3 wins, 3 losses - 116/173, 67.1% - 1474 yards - 6 TD's - 3 INT's - 105.0 QB Rating (played injured for 4 of 6 games)
Mayfield 2020 Browns - 4 wins, 2 losses - 103/170, 60.1% - 1095 yards - 10 TD's - 6 INT's - 98.4 QB Rating
When you compare apples to apples instead of skewing the numbers, the Cleveland Browns are "NOT" getting better QB play at the position compared to the last 2-years. It most definitely has a bearing on why the Browns have a worse record this year out of the last 3 with a 5-week brutal schedule staring us in the face. Amazing how hatred will make you look the other way no matter the facts.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Legend
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Legend
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Actually, if you're going to be so inclined to continue to beat up on a QB that isn't even here anymore, the least you could do is compare apples to apples instead of trying to prove your argument with pure trash. If you have to compare to satisfy your blatant hatred for the player, at least compare the replacement to the former's prior results before you get on here skipping through la la land like you proved something. The team as a whole has basically the same nucleus in 2020, 2021, and 2022. If you're hell bent on comparing Brissett's play to the former QB, at least compare it to whether we actually are getting better play or not on this team, the Cleveland Browns.
Brissett 2022 Browns - 2 wins, 4 losses - 124/206, 60.2% - 1326 yards - 6 TD's - 5 INT's - 88.4 QB Rating
Mayfield 2021 Browns - 3 wins, 3 losses - 116/173, 67.1% - 1474 yards - 6 TD's - 3 INT's - 105.0 QB Rating (played injured for 4 of 6 games)
Mayfield 2020 Browns - 4 wins, 2 losses - 103/170, 60.1% - 1095 yards - 10 TD's - 6 INT's - 98.4 QB Rating
When you compare apples to apples instead of skewing the numbers, the Cleveland Browns are "NOT" getting better QB play at the position compared to the last 2-years. It most definitely has a bearing on why the Browns have a worse record this year out of the last 3 with a 5-week brutal schedule staring us in the face. Amazing how hatred will make you look the other way no matter the facts. I should warn you that posting contrary facts to the OP's intent will get you cancelled (blocked).
Last edited by mgh888; 10/20/22 09:39 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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SuperBrown |
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Let's take it just a little bit further down the hatred path. When we compare apples to apples, who actually had more offensive adversity to deal with these first 6-weeks?
Brissett:
In 2022, the scheduled starters and key backups have basically been in place for Brissett:
Cooper 6/6 games played, DPJ 6/6, Njoku 6/6, Wills 6/6, Conklin 4/6, Teller 6/6, Bitonio 6/6, Hubbard 6/6, Hudson 6/6, Chubb 6/6, Hunt 6/6.
Baker Mayfield
In 2021, the scheduled starters and key backups that were in place for Mayfield:
Beckham 4/6 games played, Landry 2/6, Njoku 5/6, Wills 4/6, Conklin 5/6, Teller 6/6, Bitonio 6/6, Hubbard 1/6, Hudson 5/6, Chubb 5/6, Hunt 6/6
Let's not forget, Mayfield played 4 of these first 6 games with a serious injury.
In 2020, the scheduled starters and key backups that were in place for Mayfield:
Beckham 6/6 games played, Landry 6/6, Njoku 3/6, Wills 6/6, Conklin 5/6, Teller 5/6, Bitonio 6/6, Hubbard 5/6, Chubb 4/6, Hunt 6/6
So, if you actually compare apples to apples, if Brissett had been subjected to the same number of injuries to the offense as Mayfield endured, do we really believe he'd be close to the numbers he has (Brissett) posted thus far?
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Bring in Dobbs for a series or two if JB keeps putting up Baker-like #s. Or a game or two. Just sayin'.
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Legend
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Legend
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Bring in Dobbs for a series or two if JB keeps putting up Baker-like #s. Or a game or two. Just sayin'. Dobbs has thrown 17 passes in his career, if I am not mistaken. Jacoby has the 10th best PFF grade among qbs in the league. He is also 10th overall in QBR. He does not deserve to be removed from the lineup. Granted, he played poorly against NE. A lot of QBs do. How did we do against NE last year? And frankly, earlier this week, I pointed out how bad Jacoby played last week. So, it's not like I am his champion. If I would have said the same exact things about Baker after a game in years past as I said about JB this week, many on here would have went nuts. I think there are other guys that deserve to be sat way more than Jacoby does.
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Legend
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The reality is this thread was created because Baker has been horrible with the Panthers and the OP has a deep seated hatred of the player so it was a way to get some cheap kicks in while the guy is down.
As you have highlighted - proper comparison and analysis would be a healthy Baker with the same/similar cast as Brissett - but you've shown even injured Baker was as good or better than JB.
Sadly none of this helps the team this year - we are 2-4 and look lost against NE. Without a miraculous turn around we will be 2-5 by the end of Sunday.
Last edited by mgh888; 10/20/22 04:24 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Bring in Dobbs for a series or two if JB keeps putting up Baker-like #s. Or a game or two. Just sayin'. Not quite yet. If we find ourselves at 2-5 or 2-6, then maybe mix it up a little bit for some fun. Imo
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Legend
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I don't understand why Dobbs didn't get a few series last Sunday... with so much fumblin' bumblin' going on in a game that was out of reach.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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we went off the rails after baker. we were off the rails before baker. we deserve to be the browns team that never learned
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Wow, two more players come out with statements confirming what Mayfield said was happening last year and chastised for it. I guess there are locker room issues, but it wasn't the former QB causing them. Funny how the facts always come out......... https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=8e69894b04124a23965b81ed3122eca9
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Legend
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This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.
I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right !
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.
I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right ! Baker could be the reason the locker room fractured. His departure wouldn't necessarily fix that. Chemistry and trust take a lot longer to build than destroy.
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Jacoby is 10x mature than Mayfield. Brissets ego is in check.
Mayfield could never admit to himself is a lower tiered NFL QB.
Brissett will be in this league longer than Baker based on
Maturity alone.
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Legend
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This could well be true - and I do think that Baker and his injury and his attitude and maturity played a part in creating issues in the locker room. I don't think the OBJ v Baker thing was real - only in some poster's imagination. Players who were vocal about OBJ had good things to say about Baker ... the KS / Baker / Injury thing was a real to me, and to Steve's point, we've heard players alluding to and apparently questioning the play calling this year which is what Baker did after one game last year when he had a little hissy fit. Baker was roundly vilified for that. Less condemnation of our current team. As for as KS and Baker - I think the lack of trust grew and we are better off without him and Watson as a player is clearly a huge upgrade..... as far as the fractured locker room this year - I think it's way worse than anything we saw when BM was in the house.
As for Jacoby and the last comment about his maturity being 10x Baker - for sure. But Jacoby isn't ever going to have a season like Baker's rookie season or his last 9 games of 2021. Take your pick on which is more important to winning.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.
I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right ! Baker could be the reason the locker room fractured. His departure wouldn't necessarily fix that. Chemistry and trust take a lot longer to build than destroy. The issues they're talking about aren't chemistry and trust, they're talking about some of the guys not taking their job seriously and not putting in the work necessary to be a professional. There's nothing to build except competency.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.
I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right ! Baker could be the reason the locker room fractured. His departure wouldn't necessarily fix that. Chemistry and trust take a lot longer to build than destroy. The issues they're talking about aren't chemistry and trust, they're talking about some of the guys not taking their job seriously and not putting in the work necessary to be a professional. There's nothing to build except competency. There is the question of why guys aren't taking their job seriously though. If there is a fracture in the locker room, no matter where it started, it can cause people to not want to be there. Our view of what is actually happening is so skewed that it really is just guess work.
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This could well be true - and I do think that Baker and his injury and his attitude and maturity played a part in creating issues in the locker room. I don't think the OBJ v Baker thing was real - only in some poster's imagination. Players who were vocal about OBJ had good things to say about Baker ... the KS / Baker / Injury thing was a real to me, and to Steve's point, we've heard players alluding to and apparently questioning the play calling this year which is what Baker did after one game last year when he had a little hissy fit. Baker was roundly vilified for that. Less condemnation of our current team. As for as KS and Baker - I think the lack of trust grew and we are better off without him and Watson as a player is clearly a huge upgrade..... as far as the fractured locker room this year - I think it's way worse than anything we saw when BM was in the house.
As for Jacoby and the last comment about his maturity being 10x Baker - for sure. But Jacoby isn't ever going to have a season like Baker's rookie season or his last 9 games of 2021. Take your pick on which is more important to winning. I think BMs rookie season quite a anomaly. He went in No pressure on his shoulders. He balled out for sure. But he a decent supporting cast. 8 different players caught TD Passes that year from Baker. But he also didn't face any great defenses in those 14 games But when you say winning, that's a broad term. In 2021 Baker played light out. But Stefanski's offense There was no film on it. The offense was always ahead Of opposing defenses And again that year, Baker had a very productive supporting Cast. Landry and Beckham played at high levels Hunt played Out of his mind. What people forget about Brissett is that, this is his 4th or 5th offensive System he has played in. Considering he was a 4th RD pick He isn't doing too bad
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,732 Likes: 396
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,732 Likes: 396 |
This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.
I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right ! Baker could be the reason the locker room fractured. His departure wouldn't necessarily fix that. Chemistry and trust take a lot longer to build than destroy. The issues they're talking about aren't chemistry and trust, they're talking about some of the guys not taking their job seriously and not putting in the work necessary to be a professional. There's nothing to build except competency. This. And this goes back to Stefanski. If guys are saying this that means he's an awful leader. A figurehead with a HC title and none of the intangibles that make a great head coach. His offense as long as he has great players is fine. What does he actually do as the head coach of the team? He has clearly lost the locker room 6 games into a season they started 2-1. It's like the frigging titanic.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,718 Likes: 174
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,718 Likes: 174 |
Bring in Dobbs for a series or two if JB keeps putting up Baker-like #s. Or a game or two. Just sayin'. Dobbs has thrown 17 passes in his career, if I am not mistaken. Jacoby has the 10th best PFF grade among qbs in the league. He is also 10th overall in QBR. He does not deserve to be removed from the lineup. Granted, he played poorly against NE. A lot of QBs do. How did we do against NE last year? And frankly, earlier this week, I pointed out how bad Jacoby played last week. So, it's not like I am his champion. If I would have said the same exact things about Baker after a game in years past as I said about JB this week, many on here would have went nuts. I think there are other guys that deserve to be sat way more than Jacoby does. (Note: Sung to the tune of 'Give Peace a chance,' just in case that didn't click in.)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124 Likes: 222
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124 Likes: 222 |
I think BMs rookie season quite a anomaly. He went in
No pressure on his shoulders. Huh? We hadn't won a game in well over a year. He didn't get ONE snap in practice with the 1st team. There were coolers of free beer all over town waiting to open up after a W. No pressure? But he a decent supporting cast. 8 different players caught TD
Passes that year from Baker. Who threw the passes? What was his performance in the red zone? But he also didn't face any great defenses in those 14 games
But when you say winning, that's a broad term. Wait...what...winning is the most narrow term there is in professional sports. In 2021 (guessing you mean 2020) Baker played light out. But Stefanski's offense
There was no film on it. The offense was always ahead
Of opposing defenses
And again that year, Baker had a very productive supporting
Cast. Landry and Beckham played at high levels Hunt played
Out of his mind. OBJ played (7) games before tearing his ACL. His stats: Beckham finished the 2020 season with 23 catches for 319 yards and three receiving touchdowns plus three rushes for 72 yards and a rushing touchdown in seven games played. Baker went on his tear AFTER OBJ was out. He had Landry & Higgins as a WR cast with Capt Fall Down at TE. For the Browns most-meaningful WIN STR, Ski was in his basement at home. Baker was bad in 2021 AFTER the injury...he's looked bad in CAR in 2022...but what he did HERE before the shoulder injury was very good.
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