DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Midterms

Talking as though you are an expert and then walking it back isn't s good look on you.

I have no idea if Biden has some mental disorder or not. I've made that perfectly clear as I always have. And yes, being a supervisor entails much more than "pouring concrete". Of course you know that. That's the point. No need to get your panties in a wad. Of course I knew you would since you always do. I knew I was wasting my time trying to respond to you in a civil manner. I don't know why I even try anymore.

Reagan had dementia his last term and republicans wanted to carve his face on mount Rushmore

Except I haven't walked anything back.

You are again wrong. I hear there are clouds on your lawn.

You may wish to review that thread. You were emphatic you knew the outcome of future court cases. You were giving lectures on how it would all work. Now you're trying to claim that's not what happened. You do realize people can read, correct?

And Bruen is still the standard going forward. Deal with it. Every single case in the system is using it. You are the greatest legal mind alive since only you see how it has no bearing.


And you still want to yell at clouds.

Once again, the SCOTUS only accepts about 150 cases a year out of over 7000 they are requested to hear. If CCW laws get chalenged and it makes it up to the SCOTUS there's the very real chance they won't even accept the case. You yourself have openly admitted this case had nothing to do with gun training being required to obtain a CCW. You don't even know if that is they type of thing this law covers since the case wasn't even about that.

Once again you are claiming it's the standard going forward based on a case that has nothing to do with training to obtain a CCW. You're at it again I see....

And when SCOTUS grants a case and makes a decision it is binding. You do realize that Bruen was decided 6-3. For a discussion of the decision read it. It implicates every single 2A case going forward. They addressed everything in a single bit. Denying the scope doesn't change it.

It's the standard going forward. State are using it t defend their overstep. Plaintiffs are using it. YOU are the only person denying the scope.

First one would have to determine exactly what the SCOTUS meant by "overstep". Once again you seem to think you have a full understanding of the law and can interpret the context of a rulings meaning. You can't. If you want to further debate this why not go back to the thread you already helped trash on the topic? Your foolishness keeps traveling from thread to thread.

No it’s not….Roe Vs Wade?

Ahh, that is defined in the decision, but you haven't read it so you wouldn't know that.

Again you are wrong, you argue from a place of ignorance and ipse dixit.

Not liking the decision does not change it.

Well, to be fair you should also site Planned Parenthood. But those were binding until SCOTUS made Dobbs v Jackson binding.

So nice try, but that's a worse swing and miss than sayng Bruen has nothing to do with any other 2A implicated case.

Claiming the decision includes gun training for a CCW permit being what the SCOTUS considers a part of this ruling is a reach of gigantic conclusion on your part. It seems to me someone that has zero experience trying to pretend he's some expert on constitutional law would be coming from a place of ignorance. No, on second thought it isn't. That would be best described as having a huge superiority complex and delusions of grandeur. I love how you think you're so superior you know what I have and haven't read. Have you ever considered comedy as a new career choice?

And thus far no case has had anything to do with requiring gun training to get a CCW Miss Cleo.

So the fact that NY is trying to justify training based on the Bruen decision is a huge error on their part? You should call em up and offer your experience.

You are again, wrong about all this. You continue to be wrong and saying the same thing differently won't help.

Have you ever thought about just growing up and trying to be an adult? That might serve you better than all the other nonsense.

BTW.. in case you missed it, you are still wrong. And this still has nothing to do with Jaybird saying Biden seems to have dementia.

See current cases in the pipeline.

The Far-Right Is Convinced Kari Lake Won: ‘Now Is the Time to Fight’

Republican candidate for Arizona governor Kari Lake has refused to concede, and her supporters are already baselessly claiming voter fraud.

The election fraud conspiracies unleashed by former TV news star Kari Lake in her defeat for Arizona governor were both predictable and instantaneous.

Lake, a Republican with the backing of former President Donald Trump, has refused to concede. After a batch of ballots released Monday night by Maricopa County made it clear that her opponent Katie Hobbs had won, Lake simply tweeted: “Arizonans know BS when they see it.”

In the days since the election, Lake repeatedly told her supporters that she had won, laying the groundwork to challenge a potential Hobbs’ victory as illegitimate. Now, Lake’s supporters, including prominent “Stop the Steal” activists, say they’re prepared to do whatever it takes to ensure their preferred candidate assumes the role of Arizona governor—and are looking to dig their claws into anything they can use to claim “foul play.” And at least one group of right-wing activists are already demanding a “do-over” of Arizona’s entire midterm election.

“It’s time,” said Gregg Philips, a former Texas official turned election conspiracy activist, on Steve Bannon’s “War Room” podcast. “Now is the time to fight. We’re gonna fight [Katie Hobbs] to the bitter end. We will not allow her to certify a stolen election.”

On Telegram in particular, one conspiracy took over: screenshots from the live feed inside the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office that showed a pile of black duffle bags that extremists have said mean that election workers were up to no good. “Black bags are EVERYWHERE,” one Telegram user wrote.

Ben Bergquam from right-wing media channel Real America’s Voice seemed to allude to those photos on Bannon’s show Tuesday and asserted that Maricopa County poll workers should be forced to sign affidavits to attest to whether they saw people “mixing ballots, mixing boxes, putting them in bags.”

Trump also weighed in on Lake’s behalf Monday night, posting to his app TruthSocial to imply that the election had been stolen from her.

“Wow! They just took the election away from Kari Lake. It’s really bad out there!” Trump wrote. He also shared a meme featuring a picture of the former TV news star, with the text, “Kari Lake Won.” Other prominent right-wing influencers have also weighed in. “I for one encourage @KariLake not to concede,” wrote ex-Newsmax host John Cardillo to his 300,000 Twitter followers. “Too many mathematically improbable and in some cases impossible irregularities.”

Maricopa County has been ground zero for election conspiracies since 2020 (despite audits and lawsuits failing to turn up any evidence of fraud). Philips’ conspiracy group, True the Vote, ginned up data that Dinesh D’Souza relied on in his debunked 2,000 Mules film to claim that Democrats were running a shady operation to stuff ballot drop boxes in areas that would have been key to Trump winning re-election, including in Maricopa County.

On the campaign trail, Lake and other MAGA candidates in Arizona, like Blake Masters (who lost his bid for Senate) and Mark Finchem (who lost the race for secretary of state), routinely fanned the flames of those conspiracies, talking about how the election was “stolen” from Trump and regularly referencing 2,000 Mules.

So when Election Day rolled around and 20 percent of vote tabulation machines in Maricopa County briefly had problems reading ballots due to printer issues, conspiracy theorists pounced and claimed the “steal” was already in motion. Lake went on right-wing media to claim, without proof, that the vast majority of the 60 polling places impacted were in “Republican parts of town.”

As Arizona’s voting process dragged on, Lake and her allies continued to claim that it was a conflict of interest that Hobbs, who previously served as secretary of state overseeing Arizona’s elections, didn’t recuse herself to run for governor. This is not unusual; incumbent secretaries of state run for re-election in the same systems they oversee all the time.)

Since Election Day, Lake has been telling her supporters that she’d won (despite never once taking the lead over Hobbs). “We won this election on Election night,” her campaign tweeted on Friday. “Everything after was narrative. They didn’t want @KariLake to have her victory speech.”

Lake has also repeatedly tweeted that she was so confident in her victory that she was already assembling a team to facilitate her transition into the governorship. Lake’s campaign seems to be convinced that she can still win and is urging voters to “cure” their challenged ballots.

After news broke on Monday that Hobbs had won, some of Lake’s most vocal supporters seemed shaken and despondent. Finchem began spewing out a torrent of conspiracy theories and petty grievances on social media

“Less tweets more lawsuits,” Finchem tweeted in the middle of a lengthy tweetstorm that also included nuggets of wisdom like: “The results from the machines defy all math” and “Polls had me winning Maricopa. No way we lost Maricopa.”

He also called for a full audit of the vote in Arizona, an expansion of the bogus recount held in Maricopa last year.

“The people of Arizona deserve better than a steaming [censored] show of an "election" run by Richer & Gates,” Finchem tweeted. “We want a full review of every ballot envelope under a microscope. You have revealed yourselves for the frauds you are.”

And State Sen. Wendy Rogersventured the possibility that they’d miscalculated Lake’s chances. “We wonder now if we were in an echo chamber,” Rogers said on conservative activist Charlie Kirk’s show.

But others are already looking to take matters into their own hands. At least one group of far-right influencers has already drawn up a more concrete plan to correct what they see as a stolen election in Arizona.

Joe Oltmann, a conservative podcaster from Colorado and major pusher of 2020 election conspiracies, announced a plan on his podcast on Monday night to“shut down” Arizona while demanding a complete redo of the election.

“We are putting everybody on notice, this is peaceful, this is a redress of grievances,” Oltmann said on the podcast. “If you are going to steal our voice and institutionalize slavery, then we as the people should have the opportunity to say no.”

Among the group’s demands, which officials have until Friday to respond to, are the appointment of a special master to oversee Arizona elections along with the removal of Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, Maricopa County Board of Supervisor Bill Gates, and Steven [sic] Richer, the Maricopa County Recorder. The Gateway Pundit, a far-right news outlet, promoted the group’s demands in an article on Tuesday with the headline, “IT BEGINS: Patriots Call For a New Legitimate Midterm Election on December 6.”

The new election would, according to the group’s demands, take place on Dec. 6 and be done only in person, with paper ballots and “precinct level hand counting of ballots.”

If these demands are not met, the group warned that “Arizona citizens, joined by American citizens from across the country, will peacefully descend on Arizona until the new election is conducted.”

Oltmann expanded on what would happen on his Telegram channel:

“It’s time to Shut It Down,” he wrote. “The people of Arizona are speaking. Every roadway, every building …. Shut it down until the demands are met. It may lead to mass amounts of people refusing to pay taxes, refusing to go to work.”

Users on Patriots.win, a pro-Trump forum, largely agreed that re-running the vote would have little impact and turned to other possibilities.

“Voting AIN'T gonna solve America's leftist problem,” one user wrote.

“F... it. just keep talking about it and maybe we will get someone brave enough to start what needs to f...... happen yesterday,” another replied.

“You first, rambo,” a third added.

Others are calling for Lake to assume the position of governor, even though she lost. “KARI LAKE WON. The DNC knows it. The RNC knows it. We ALL know it,” wrote QAnon conspiracy theorist Ann Vandersteel to her 45,000 subscribers on Telegram. “Gloves off... MAGA needs to ignore these corruptocrats, form a new government of, by and for We the People and move on.”

Another user on Patriots.win made similar remarks. “If the courts don't fix this then hold a rally, invite all the Arizona Patriots and swear in Lake as the new governor on the same day as Hobbs,” they wrote. “Then Lake sets up office and starts running the State.”

“In other words, Arizona needs to ignore the stolen election results,” they added.

Before the election, VICE News spoke to Lake’s supporters in Maricopa County who repeatedly affirmed their belief that fraud was the only way Hobbs could win the race for governor.

“It seems to be that a win for Katie Hobbs would mean hands down that they [the Democrats] cheated,” said Lindsay Graham, a conservative activist known as “Patriot Barbie,” at a right-wing event in Chandler, Arizona, one day before Election Day. “There is no way there’s enough support in Arizona.” Graham added that she would trust the results of the election if Lake won.

Many other Republican voters did not mince words when describing the kind of reaction they expected to see from Lake’s supporters, if she were not declared the winner. “I think there’s going to be a big uprising,” Susanna Davis, 61, told VICE News on Election Day outside her polling place, a megachurch in Phoenix, when asked what would happen if Lake lost.

On Saturday, around 100 protesters gathered outside the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office for a rally that State Sen. Wendy Rogers had promoted via her social media (despite other right-wing thought leaders including Charlie Kirk urging Arizonans to abstain from protesting for the time being). It was the biggest crowd to materialize in front of the Maricopa County Recorder’s Office since Election Day, which was also a flashpoint for protests in 2020.

Some rally goers came armed with handguns or knives and carried wooden signs bearing slogans like “Lake Won” and “Hobbs=Cheat.” A few came dressed in tactical gear, emblazoned with patches associated with militia movements in the area; one attendee wore a T-shirt advertising Bannon’s War Room podcast. One woman showed up with a wooden cross and knelt outside the recorder’s office where votes were still being tallied as another attendee led the crowd in prayer.

Attendees expressed frustration with Arizona’s voting system, but at that point, Lake and her allies were still promising that the remaining untallied ballots would be overwhelmingly favorable to Republicans. It was clear that many in the crowd were convinced that Lake would ultimately be declared the winner.

“I think there’s going to be some real upset people who don’t trust the system,” if Hobbs won, one attendee said.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/93a...OX06JPJeDcPPoo_TU-mmOS_4up0KZASiXz_daUao

The inmates are running the asylum. Murica!

Let me know when the rulings are final.

You keep saying the same thing the same way and it doesn't help. Have you ever thought about growing up and being a constitutional lawyer instead of playing one on Dawgtalkers?

So how restrictive is the N.Y. law you are using as some example? Is it a basic training course to get a CCW? I doubt it.

It wouldn't matter. You will still deny it because you just want to fight about something you are wrong on.

I'm not the one who started this fight. Deflecting by making such an accusation doesn't change the fact that people can read.

Again, who cares if you were a supervisor? How does that lend any credibility to anything you say?

You have opinions, as we all do.

And I knew you would reply, as you do to almost every single post anyone ever makes. Perhaps YOU are the stalker?

Yes you are. When things don't go your way you go to sniping and insults. You question whether people can read, what they do.

So in the spirit of telling you yet again you are wrong and don't understand how this all works so you can ignore it:

In Washington DC the rule for anyone carrying is no more ammo than two magazines worth and no more than twenty rounds total. If you have eight round magazines then you get 16 rounds total. If you have 15 round magazines you are breaking the law. If you have 10 round magazines you get 20 rounds total.

Dick Heller told the city after the Bruen decision he would sue them over this. The Bruen decision does not address how many rounds nor how many magazines you may have on you. It does address history, text and tradition. Washington DC has acquiesced, not because they have a care for you and your protected rights. They did so because they knew it was a losing proposition in the face of Bruen's mandate of text, history and tradition.

In Texas a federal judge has ruled that people under indictment cannot be denied possession of arms. There is not text, history or tradition of denying the right to keep arms to someone who is merely charged with a crime. The Bruen decision has no specific language about this, but it does require text, history and tradition.

None of this stops a rouge activist judge ignoring the decision. it is likely a given it will happen. A judge in Baltimore County ruled that a AR-15 is not common usage and, as such, is not protected 10ish years ago. The thing that is likely to happen is if a circuit tries to ignore Bruen and another circuit doesn't you end up with a circuit spilt. That means you have different rules for citizens who live in different circuits. This is the surest way to trigger a grant of writ of certiorari. If you believe the court that ruled 6-3 in Bruen is going to suddenly change its mind and ignore other cases that should be settled with Bruen you really are delusional.

The writing is on the wall, it takes time, but as this moves forward text, history and tradition is the standard, regardless what the original question was the court was asked, they answered with text, history and tradition.

TL:DR: Text, history and tradition is the standard.

GOPers took the house.

I guess we’ll find out if they actually have policies to advocate for, or if they think it’ll just be a good idea to try and open investigations against everyone and everything to try and burn stuff down.

The answer is: Where is Hillary’s personal emails. Whatabout Benghazi! Hunter Biden is hiding something. Repeal Obamacare. Joe has dementia. Election reform with no proof of wide spread election fraud. Raise prices and taxes on the poor and give more tax breaks and lower taxes on the rich. Rinse and repeat. Take away women’s reproductive right. Ending the never ending war in Afghanistan was right but not how Biden did it! Biden left us with this inflation we can’t overcome now. This is how they operate. Why should we expect anything different from the GOPers?

The Mac Brothers, Kevin and Mitch, are fighting for their righteous positions in the House and Senate. Caring more about themselves then their constituents. Typical GOPer behavior and in fighting again. It’s so predictable.

Yeah, it was me who came here and replied to you to begin with.

I'm fully aware you are not a constitutional lawyer but it seems either one of two things are happening here. You either feel like you're playing one on TV or you've been staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

[quote=PitDAWG][/quote]

I've quoted all the debate points you posted in response to my factual post. I'd respond to them, but again you don't debate you insult, deflect and toss infantile barbs. Typical.

I bet you think you wiped the floor on that one.

You wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you in the ass. Just because you think you know everything which is exactly the way narcissistis think, you value yourself far too highly.

[quote=PitDAWG][/quote]

Again let me show you your debate points so I can, again, have nothing of value to counterpoint.

Yours are sounding rather compelling at this point as well.



Still at the holiday Inn Express I see. You do understand that you trying to translate and use your preconceived notions when interpreting the SCOTUS holds zero merit, correct? Going around and round with some wannabe attorney who thinks he knows everything about the law has become nauseating. You have no idea if the SCOTUS felt that basic CCW training fell under what they consider intrusive to carrying a gun. You have no idea if they would even hear such a case should it be challenged. The case they ruled on involves none of that. You pretty much have no idea about any of that. Yet you continue to think you're some sort of expert on the topic. You're not.

I do know what the decision says, which you continue to deny. Text, history and tradition.

This is not debatable if you read the decision. You are deflecting that by trying to attack me personally.


Prove to be that "mandatory training" especially 16 hours or more show history, text and tradition. You won't, you can't. You will deflect and call me more names, but I challenge you to go outside of your rancor and show me. I dare you. Make a proper debate point in light of the controlling standard.

I'll wait over here for more of your nonsense.

Once again, the case you are using had nothing to do with training to acquire a CCW. It's your reach of epic proportions that's trying to insinuate that it does with nothing to base that on.

And once again you miss the point (purposefully)

Text, history and tradition is the rule of thumb now. You asserted that Bruen only covered "good cause" arguments. I have shown that to be incorrect. It IS being used for all manner of 2A cases. NY is trying to defend training by USING Bruen. They must be wrong cause you said it has nothing to do with it.

You are wrong, you continue to argue because you cannot, in your delusional world, ever be wrong. Text, History and Tradition rule.

Maybe you're waiting for me to bow to you? No, you just keep trying to act like you're a constitutional law attorney. You're not. New York already has some of the most restrictive gun policies in the country. So does the fact that dozens of lawyers tried to use case law to prove the 2020 elections were stolen make them right? No, they lost every case.

Whoa there, you are conflating things that have nothing to do with each other.

NY does have egregious anti gun laws. One they no longer have is "good cause" This was put into effect 90+ years ago. It was finally struck down.

The fact that everyone arguing a 2A case now is using Bruen and not some antiquated standard is good enough proof. Text, history and tradition.

So it has nothing to do with a basic training course to get a CCW permit.

I think it is you who are conflating things that have nothing to do with each other. The SCOTUS case had nothing to do with basic gun training to acquire a CCW permit.

Also allow me to point out something you posted earlier.


You see, your claim all along was that the Bruen decision would actually overturn states having the right to require people to get training to acquire a CCW permit. Then you turn right around and cite an example of how in one state the opposite is being proposed. How does that bolster your position again?

I have to give it to you. You can continue to use a pedantically specious argument in the face of fact like no one else.

Bruen did not specifically address number of rounds a CCW carrier can have on them. It was used to change the number in DC.

Bruen did not specifically address those who have been indicated to be prohibited for possession (that's the first step to carrying, you can't carry if you cant posses). But Bruen was used to strike that law in TX.

Bruen specifically said anything that implicates the right to keep and bear arms must use text, history and tradition. Your example.. mandatory training is used to determine if someone can carry (bear). Is there a "sufficient historical analog" for requiring training before allowing carry? I don't know there is. And it is the state that has to prove there is. Not they say it, not they think it, not the hint they wish it was there. They bear (pardon the pun) the burden of proof.

You can reframe the same argument over and over, but text, history and tradition is the same answer. Bruen is the controlling decision on this and it is clear.

On a personal note, if you don't like I get it it. You believe the Bloomberg/Giffords/Brady/et all that say things like "common sense" and "gun violence" You picture your self above those "yahoos" around you as better than them. That does not matter. Your feelings are not important. Text, history and tradition is. Bruen matters. It is the precedent now. That can only be changed by SCOTUS.

My claim all along is that mandatory training does not meet text, history and tradtion. You have not proven it does. You have attacked me at every turn and deflected and thrown out straw argument. You are, of course, going to continue to do so because you can't admit you are wrong.