DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why isn't Andrew Berry on the hot seat?

I get it. And I will admit I might be a part of the "now" crowd if the team implodes these next several games. A teams team finish is important. At least for me it isn't totally predicated on winning. It is about how you win and how you lose that make the difference.

Another factor Haslam has to consider is would having Stefanski going in to next season on the "Hot Seat" be better than just starting over at seasons end?


If we do start slow and a change is made after say 5 games, the season is over then. I am hard pressed to recall a time where a coach is replaced and his interem took over and had significant improvements. Maybe it was here with Williams for Freddie? My point is the odds are another season is gone.

I still think that Stefanski with a new DC is what is needed, but when I think about it in those terms, I may walk back some earlier thoughts and say that Stefanski may not be as secure as previously stated

I still think he stays. As I have said for a month or so, I think Jim Leohnard would be an excellent DC. He has turned the Wisconsin D in to one of the top D's in college football. He played in the NFL for 10-12 years, the last few here in Cleveland. I think he could step right in, have cred with the players, he may have been a teammate with a few, and turn this D around.

When we boil all of this down, I am still left with feeling the D was the big problem this year. Make the changes there and this season is much different.

The problem with Woods being the scapegoat is that the HC isn't taking any responsibility. Just last night in the NE/ARI game, the announcers said it multiple times how Belichick is involved in all phases of his team's game. Yes, he has coordinators that are running the offense, defense, and special teams but when he sees a problem - he jumps right in there to fix the issue. The Browns have a HC that is so focused on his play calling that anything else that happens on the field is missed and he basically has to be told about what happened. This team is so sad at times that if the defense can't be blamed the ST's get the hit - and still no HC accountability. Yet when the Bengals hold the best RB in football to 34 yds rushing (2.4 yds per carry) behind what continues to be claimed the best OL in football, nearly a peep is made about accountability on the OC/HC Stefanski.

Just one other thing that I just don't understand. The Browns drafted York in the 4th round in 2022. To put that in perspective, York is only the 3rd kicker since 2011 to be drafted before the 5th round or later. The other two: Aguayo by TBB in the 2nd round in 2016 and only played the one year and Alex Henery by PHI in 2011 in the 4th round who's been out of football since 2015. If you're going to jump out on a limb like that and draft a kicker so much earlier than what normal franchises do, why the heck wouldn't you put your highly drafted kicker out there to kick a 60 plus yard FG with only 3 seconds left in the half? The probability of hitting the Hail Mary Pass was only 9.7%. Consider this: In the last 10 years, kickers are 18-of-66 from 60-plus — 27.2 percent. That percentage rises to 38.1 for games played in stadiums with a roof, either fixed or retractable. It drops to 22.2 percent — 10-of-45 in stadiums that are open-air, like Paycor Stadium. If the Browns are supposed to be a team driven by analytics, why didn't Stefanski attempt the 60 yard plus FG? The percentages say "kick" and you went out on a limb t draft the big leg kicker earlier than normal - WHY DIDN'T THE BROWNS ATTEMPT THE FG? Oh wait, analytics only apply when we want them to apply to the decision-making process.

It's crazy isn't it. 90% of the posters in this thread were/are Baker fans. Heck, you have Purp claiming Watson shouldn't have rust after two years off because he had money to hire receivers to throw with him at a park while he wasn't playing (I almost spit out my drink when I read that), then you have mgh patting him on the back telling him he's hitting nails on heads. The best outcome for most of these fans is the Browns fail because they got rid of a guy who didn't work, who didn't improve, and rubbed their faces in his constant immaturity. Losing games is heaven for these guys so they can come here and pat each other on the back with the most ridiculous takes ever. Even DC, who used to bring a level of intelligence and maturity to the party, has lost his mind with one ridiculous take.after another.

The issue with the Browns is they don't prioritize winning. They have a culture where losing and mediocrity is not only expected, it is accepted. They have a culture where a coach feels comfortable enough to call a 30 yd fade route on 4th and 1 by bringing in his backup QB who hadnt thrown a pass or taken a snap in the game, then after it fails give the reason in his presser that he wanted TDs even though a low risk short yardage play that would have given him a first would have also kept a TD alive. A coach that feels comfortable enough to make that call in a must win game and give that reason is symptomatic of the bigger problem. It was a losing call and a losing play, but he didn't care. He didnt prioritize winning because his organization doesnt prioritize winning. Until that changes, and it likely never will under Haslam, not much will change.

I think your summation of Purples Point was a just a little out of context and omitted the point he was replying to.



While also completely ignoring points made by Steve and DC .... but that'd be par for the course when it comes to things "Baker" which this isn't about. But hey, it's very convenient to sweep everything you can't debate under the "Fabulous Baker Boys" label. Well Done.

The crazy thing is that Stefanski is the only guy who masked most of Baker's weaknesses and tailored the offense to his strengths. Stefanski is the one guy who the Fabulous Baker Boys should love. They don't and they blame him--along w/a plethora of others--for Bakers failures.

peen, you are an intelligent man and typically a fair-minded poster. You go off the rails on a couple of guys [Ward] at times, but otherwise you are a very objective poster. Thus, I ask why do you get sucked in by guys w/an agenda that is fueled by spite and has little to no merit? Who the hell are they to tell others--and especially the Browns--what is going to fly and what is not? Those guys are short in the intelligence department and they are just fans w/loud mouths.

Q: How many of them actually even have season tickets?
A: None.

Q: What say do they have?
A: NONE!

Ok. This made me spit up my coffee.

LOL-----I know it sounds whacked. But, my point is what say do they have in what the Browns do w/their hiring and firing. It's not like any of these guys support the team in any way.

????????????????

this team has regressed in many ways over the last 2 years. Many statements hold true week in & week out. A discussion about an underperforming team is not going to be very bright.

Vers you are guilty of chastising more than anyone else period. Because some are disappointed in results and have open dialogue about said shortcomings is not trashing a team. The fact that you are so bothered by those that question the poor choices that have this team as an AFC bottom feeder is confusing. As if you are the only one who can question any move this franchise makes.

At this point in his run, I take it you feel AB has done a great job?

I have asked the question point blank on the KS thread, only to get the run around from you. I feel the same excuse is what you will use here. And that is to forget the last 3 years, the Browns now have a franchise QB and he will show everyone how great the HC & GM are when he gets us to the SB.

VERS everyone on this board wants that to happen. but there has been very evidence that this works out. & if there is no SB appearance in the next 3-4 years, this deal was a failure.

There is an opportunity to right the ship. This will take DW playing at a higher level than he has yet to show with his 1 career playoff win. AB hitting on a much higher % of draft picks, this without a 1st round pick. As well as paying the correct FA's to come in and be a contributor for 17 games. On top of these 2 key pieces KS has to take a huge step up on being a better overall leader of this team.

But shame on me for investing the same time and energy only to trust my eyes and question the direction of this franchise.

J/c

I think it’s impossible for us to know because we don’t know the various levels to the Watson deal. Which individuals really pushed for the deal? Did AB show some hesitation? Did Haslam make the call all himself?

A few things.

--You are grossly mistaken about the chastising thing. I had guys on ignore for months and they replied to me multiple times daily. I am not the one who calls people male and female body parts. Please!

--I get that the team is disappointing this year. I get that it should be be a big conversation point. But, it's like the only talking point. And you get labeled a Stefanski fan boy if you don't agree he should be fired. Balance is not a bad thing.

--I also don't think my opinion on who should be fired or retained matters in the slightest. I am not the owner. I'm not a shareholder. I'm a common fan. My opinion doesn't matter when it comes to the employment of others.

--I don't begrudge you for having an alternative opinion. I like Stefanski, but I respect your opinion. Thus far, you haven't resorted to insults and telling lies about what I have said. We disagree. I don't feel you should agree w/my takes. We should all be able to have our opinions w/out being attacked.

--What is your question again? Is it that I think the Browns will get to a SB now that they have Watson? If so, my answer is that I don't know. There are no guarantees. I do think that you need an excellent qb in today's NFL, especially in a conference features a ton of young, stud qbs. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lamar. I think Watson gives us a chance, but that's all it is. A chance. Personally, I don't tell my team what will "fly" and what won't "fly." I love football and watch it to be entertained. The Browns are my favorite team and I root hard for them. I don't let the outcome of a "game" that I am not a part of affect my life. If it comes to the point--and I was close a few times during the Sashi years--that they disgust me so badly, I will simply quit watching them. I don't feel I have the right to tell them who to fire or employ. Hope that helps.

You guys both sound butthurt. Someone pee in your Froot Loops this morning? Geez.



People call you male and female body parts?? Did you wake up feeling androgynous?

I still don’t understand why Berry don’t take control of a negative situation where coaches publicly gets called out and our results are way below expectations. Yesterday Ski sounded like a defeated man that was low on energy and without answers. The whole organization seems to be swimming in self pity and nobody seems mentally strong enough to take command.

Where’s the leadership? Who is steering this ship at the moment?

A competent GM take action before the train has left station. Just waiting for Watson to take the organization out of this misery isn’t how you run a franchise at this level.

It seems you missed last Thursday's game. If what you're claiming is true, McVay did a great job of masking Baker's weaknesses as well. So you must be the leader of the Anti Baker Boys.

Says a guy who questions everyone else, who thinks he knows everything football and also doesn't have season tickets. For a guy who doesn't have season tickets himself you sure think having season tickets is the only way someone's opinion should be valued. Is this your way of telling yourself to STH up? And the fact that you claim anyone who disagrees with you lacks intelligence speaks volumes about your own.

Vers really?

1) I don't know about the people parts thing you're referring too but there's no person on this forum that calls people names more than you do.

2) If you think the team has been disappointing you have a heck of way showing that by attacking anyone who is even slightly critical of the Browns. Buddy, you are the biggest hypocrite born to man to try a make a statement of being labeled something like a "Stefanski Man" because you support the guy. I got to tell you, that's the most childish thing I've ever seen posted on this forum - with your record of attacking anyone who says anything positive about Mayfield is actually complaining about being called a "Stefanski Man" because you support him, and it should be balanced - YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FREAKING KIDDING ME!

3) For a guy who states his opinion doesn't matter when it comes to employment of others, you sure have a lot of posts stating that opinion.

How odd. YOU label anyone that doesn't hate Baker as a "Baker fan boy". Ironic.
So, you're not a season ticket holder, cause if you were, it would matter...........how? Lies huh? You don't lie all the time? You even called me a Baker fan boy that doesn't support the team.

Well, I have season tickets and don't have any real say. I do get surveys from the team, so they know how I feel. I was pretty pointed on the last one I received a few weeks ago.

I am not being sucked in by anyone. I think you know I can stand pretty firm in my opinion when I think I am right.

In this case, I do put weight in how the team finishes. As I said before, unlike what many people seem to indicate, I don't put the weight on wins and losses. Teams can play well in a loss and not so well when they win.

I do think there is a chance that Haslam might decide he would rather take the chance on a new coaching staff rather than go with Stefanski and wait to see if we start strong. Making the move mid season would be a disaster IMO.

Like I said either in this thread or another, my choice is to keep Stefanski and replace Woods. If Preifer goes, so be it, I don't have a strong opinion on that. If anybody is hurt by poor talent, it would be him. ST coaches always get the left overs.

I do understand there is a group who tend to try to talk louder than everybody else and once crossed, or perceived to have been, pick at everything.

I could be wrong, but I think Stefanski retains his job. There is no reason to fire him other than fans complaining. Of course, Haslam has fired guys before, so one never knows.

I guess my biggest point was regarding phrases like "........isn't going to fly" and "there will be no excuses." What the hell do those phrases even mean? What are they going to do if the team doesn't win next year? Storm the HQ at Berea? Burn down the stadium? I guess they could go root for another team, but that would be too good to be true.

First, we'll have to read your constant posting that it's the "Baker Boyz' fault. Then we'll have to listen to you saying it's all the trainer's fault because he had to difficult a training session for the players. Then we'll hear about how good a coach Stefanski is and the only thing we're missing is an elite DT again and 2024 will be the Browns year.

Contrary to your Stefanski Boy belief, the reason to fire Stefanski is he has never finished higher than 3rd place in the AFC North with a loaded roster that has gotten progressively worse each year. That's grounds for any HC to be dismissed from his duties. Add to it that Stefanski has been nothing more than a gloried OC and that's clear reasons to terminate his employment with the Cleveland Browns, like it or not.

The reason questions has to be asked is repeatedly bad results. If the team reach the play off every third season it’s statistically on par with normality. That’s must be the starting point when we discuss keeping or sacking our GM or HC.

That's a damn lie. Stop. Our current record shows just how much Baker hurt this team. He didn't because it sucked more without him. And unless DW gets it together next year and lives up to the hype, we'll be blowing it all up again. Genius moves to trash Baker to get the predator. And you think this FO and coaching staff don't deserve the vitriol? You must like seeing the browns fail.

I promise to remind you of your Captain McRapey fetish every time you mention Baker. Let's GO!

Kevin Stefanski is an administrator. He's not a leader of men. He plans the schedule, keeps the players up to date on what's going on, etc. The biggest fallacy on this board is his success year 1 was more impressive because of covid. It was less impressive because of covid. The team needed an administrator that year to navigate the unique circumstances. They needed a planner, a logistics guy, someone to keep the team up to date. When things got back to normal his inability to lead grown men, his inability to prioritize winning is now coming home to roost. Sterfanski has squandered an amazing opportunity coaching a team of really talented players. And what does he do to show his appreciation...11-6, 8-9, 5-12.

Thanks Kev. You the man.

I don't think this will be against the rules????

For the record, I had season tickets since the early '80s and sold them in 2017 when I saw that we were deliberately trying to lose. It's worth noting that I had a drive of 13 hours in 2006-2007 and a 9 hour drive starting in 2008 until the time I sold the tickets for good. Like you, I did not go to each home game every years. I would typically go to 4 games and give the remaining 4 games to family/friends.

They're actually rather self explanatory.


Well there is now a precedent set for something like that to happen.


Yes only blind followers who try to use magic dust and illusions to paint a beautiful portrait should be here. When the team you follow is stinking up the joint nobody should have enough passion in their veins to get upset and frustrated. Only blind followers need apply. Everyone else can go to hell. Right?

So the answer is no, you don't have season tickets. Thanks.

I recall gifting you a hat that I got w/my season tickets somewhere around 2015 or so. You're welcome.

I still have it. Thanks. How does that change the fact you claimed only season ticket holders opinions mattered and you're not a season ticket holder?

I never said that "only season ticket holders" matter. The point is that what can y'all do when you make idle threats to the Browns organization? I was thinking that you could quit paying for season tickets and that could hurt the team, but you can't do that if you don't already have them. What else do you have to hold over their heads? Nothing. Absolutely nothing!

This team could lose the remaining 4 games of the season and I think both Stefanski and Berry will be fine....as much as that opinion undoubtedly chaps many an ass here to read.

Berry and Stefanski are tied to Watson's production. This structure will be given a full offseason including a free agency period (where Watson simply being on the roster, among others, will attract players), perhaps some other coaching adjustments, and any roster tweaks. If Watson struggles in 2023, they are most likely gone.

Your hate fueled insanity certainly doesn't read that way. I mean take a look at it. You insult anyone with a differing opinion than your own and even question Peen's ability to think for himself when he doesn't walk lock step with what you think. There is a reason you take so much grief and it's self inflicted.

Right.

I agree with your post. I've posted a while ago that it's only right that KS gets to work with DW and AB should have another year to see how things work out with DW. KS had to work with an injured Baker and then a career back-up in Jacoby although JB played well. Give them a chance with a top QB like Watson. IF it's more of the same next year then changes should be made. JMO

I agree with you and Memphis...I don't like it...but I agree. steve has very deftly described (more than once) the issue with Ski's tendencies that IN THE PAST could logically be seen as not being symbiotic with Watson and his skillset. In addition, we have built a running team...and now have an elite QB who himself is not afraid to take off and run...if not predisposed to do so.

I don't think Ski has really ever found his way as a HC - and I get that such is debatable. My concern is that he will need to reinvent himself as the OC if we are to create schemes that fit a throwing offense vs a running one. I don't think he has that in him.

Berry will 100% be back. Stefanski will be back as well unless Watson looks completely atrocious in these final four exhibition games. Wins and losses will have no bearing on Stefanski returning. This season has always been about seeing how they incorporate Watson.

Anyone being honest with themselves knows this season was over after the losses to the Jets, Chargers and Patriots. The Browns were never winning the division and the results of the other games ruined any shot at a wild card game due to tiebreakers. The Miami loss was the final blow.

Here is what took place in the meeting with Watson during the courting process and why Stefanski will be given a full year to work with and coach Watson.

From The Athletic...

Most of the rest of the meeting was devoted to Stefanski and Watson. The Browns didn’t want to bore Watson with some PowerPoint presentation, and they weren’t sure what type of equipment would be available to them at Hardin’s offices, so Stefanski brought an iPad loaded with film clips. The Browns cut up all of Watson’s RPOs from the 2019 and 2020 seasons and organized them by what the Texans did most and areas where Watson excelled. Stefanski sat the iPad between the two of them and showed a play the Browns ran and then followed it with a clip of Watson doing the same thing with the Texans. Stefanski ran the clicker and the two talked football for nearly an hour while no one else in the room could see the screen or what they were discussing.

Watson told Stefanski he wanted to be coached hard, that he’ll never get offended by coaching. He asked Stefanski if he saw anything Watson could work on, and Stefanski rattled off a list of a few items, including doing a better job of carrying out his fakes. Watson laughed and said Stefanski sounded like Watson’s 10th-grade coach, who always got on him for that kind of thing.

Unless Haslam completely goes rogue (it's not impossible) the Browns are not going to blow it all up because of what was, in all likelihood, a lost season once the suspension became 11 games. Had the suspension been four or six games and Stefanski had Watson for thirteen or eleven games to really evaluate how the two worked together, then I believe a more compelling argument could made for moving on from Stefanski.

The coach and QB relationship is the most important aspect to a successful franchise and Stefanski will get a full year and will not be canned after trying work Watson into a system beginning week 12 while juggling Brissett's reps during Watson's early return.

Joe Woods will be gone. I say Priefer is 50/50, but I think he survives.

The pressure to win will be ratcheted up entering 2023 and if early losses mount there is a real possibility Stefanski will be canned mid-season and we'll have another lost season on our hands.

That's a good post.

Personally, I think Watson will excel in Stefanski's offense. As many other football guys [Burns, Cossell, etc] have said, this is a very QB friendly offense. Much like Shanahan's. I do think we will see more RPOs and formations out of the Pistol next year than we have/will this season. But, like most of the offenses in the Shanahan/Kubiak tree, the offense has a ton of building blocks, where one play is but a prequel for comes later, much like how a pawn is sacrificed for major moves that come later on.

I think locking up Pocic, securing a decent RT, and getting one more WR to add to the mix are much more important to the success of the Brown's offense than changing the Head Coach and/or the GM. I better clarify the RT addition. I always liked Conklin and he was one of the very top RTs in the entire league. However, his play has really declined this year, especially the last few weeks. Not sure if his body is wearing out or not? It will be important for the FO to determine just how healthy he will be next year and if he warrants a new contract. It would be great if that works out, but we'll need a RT if Conklin can't fully recover physically and is worth the amount of money he will ask for.

I, like you, think Priefer survives. I, like you, think Woods is gone.

And I really like the info about Stefanski and Watson, but we all need to keep in mind, even with the connection they had, Watson still ruled the Browns out initially (allegedly). Alledgedly meaning, that's what was reported at the time. Maybe they were never really out? Who knows, but the guaranteed money seems to have had a legit influence. I hope the connection is true because that could really be something special and something we've lacked for a loooooong time.

It's also worth noting that Haslam extended DePodesta's contract in 2020 to align with the five year contracts that were given to Berry and Stefanski in that same year.

Blowing it all up now and Haslam is on the hook paying for two years without any possible ROI. This is another reason everyone will very likely be back for 2023 season.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...ed-5-year-contract-extension/5441030001/

Great point.