DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why isn't Andrew Berry on the hot seat?

And then there is this re: the decision to choose Cleveland (moments ago):



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I, like most think Stefanski is back next year. But as far as the reasoning that Haslam wouldn't fire any of them because he would have to pay them for not being here I really don't buy into that as a viable reason. History has shown he doesn't seem to care about paying people that aren't here when it pertains to HC, their staffs and FO people. If he gets to the point he thinks it's time t move on, he moves on.

I just don't think that time is now.

From the same article....

Of all the finalists, Watson knew the Browns roster was the best fit and gave him the best opportunity to win right away, but Mulugheta told him he had to start eliminating teams and coming to a decision. Watson was still hung up on going to a location where he hadn’t spent much time and his only experience involved awful weather.

Cleveland was the first team eliminated. Watson, however, almost immediately had reservations about his decision.

Mulugheta called Berry on Thursday and told him they weren’t getting Watson, but Berry remained persistent. He called Mulugheta back Thursday night to discuss another one of his clients, and at the end of the call turned it back to Watson. He asked what the Browns could’ve done better or differently, then reiterated the team remained interested in him.


Enter the $230M fully guaranteed contract to seal deal.

Yep. At the end of the day it was Mo Money!

Does not really matter.
Next year Berry drafts the next Emerson we still finish last in defense
We need stud front 7 not Elliott Tua We need studs.
The problems are going nowhere Pocic walks because he will get a contract
North of Bitiono
Conklin will get a huge offer from new York or maybe Cincinnati.
This is the price of signing Leshaun

In addition to what you've posted, the Browns have 4 years of cap charges on Clooney, 2 more years of cap charges on Conklin, and 2 more years on Hunt of cap charges should they all decide to leave. That's about 6.1M per year for those guys to be playing somewhere else. This is the bag of carry over money the Browns are creating by putting large portions of players' salaries in prorated bonuses. Take Watson for example, there was much to do about Watson only making 1.035M in salary in 2022 because they moved it all to a prorated bonus. That takes what most think is just a base salary for Watson the next four years of 46M per season to a cap charge of 54.993M per season due to the prorated bonus.

I've also heard and even read where the Browns might prorate all of Watson's salary again in 2023. If they do that, his cap charge for 2024 would spike to 63.986M for years 3-5.

I didn't feel as though he questioned that.

I didn't. Not even close. In fact, you are one of the guys whose mind I do respect. Very much so.

I keep reading that Stefanski should get another year or deserves another year. He doesn't deserve anything. No one has done less with more.

11-5, 8-9, 5-12


I'm trying to understand how that equates to being deserving of anything. Not to mention the numerous on field issues we watch on a weekly basis. I'm surprised more people aren't scared to death about another year with Stefanski. Imagine this...January starts an 8 month clock to next season. By October the Browns will be 2-5 or 3-4. Now we are looking forward to September 2024. That's not appealing to me at all.

Listening to the Carman podcast and he had Ruiter on there, consensus surrounding the team is that Stefanski is def. on a hot seat with the continued regression but also Berry is as well.. The feeling is Berry was given an abundance of draft capital and hasn't drafted an impact player, a couple of ok guys and a bunch of JAGs. Not sure how much to read into that, but it is coming from a guy closer to the team than us here on a board.

Here is why there is an extremely strong chance Stefanski will be back.

A large part of the sales pitch to bring Watson here was him working with Stefanski and how Stefanski could design an offense best suited to elevate Watson's game. This will not be decided in six games. Watson would have to look like he did in the game against HOU the rest of the way for it to be clear Watson and Stefanski are not a fit.

You have said many times the most important recipe for success for a franchise is the QB and HC followed by the GM. If Watson continues to show signs of improvement and the offense comes to life, the Browns will not blow it up and will give it next year to further evolve. Finding the right HC and QB to pair together could be argued is most difficult thing to get right for any organization. That is another reason that if Stefanski and Watson are working well together it will be given another year. The bad play calls, clock mismanagement, staffing issues, etc., can all be fixed far more easily than finding the right HC/QB combo.

There is going to be just as much pressure on Berry this offseason to fix the areas on defense that were neglected or they were overconfident in as it will be for Stefanski to keep the offense humming along. There will likely be a new DC and that will be on Stefanski to make sure he hires the right guy this time.

Stefanski was able to get the absolute max out of both Mayfield and Brissett. These are not good QBs. Why would the Browns not want to see what he can do with a full year and offseason with what is presumed to be a top 5 or top 7 QB? Why throw that potential away because we're living in the moment now and upset about some on the field play calls, situational management, etc.?

If Stefanski is fired, who's hire the next HC? DePo and Berry? You're going to end up with Stefanski 2.0. Are Haslam and J-Dubs swinging the hammer and hiring the next HC after DePo would have presumably got the Stefanski hire wrong? Haslam netted you High School Mike and Hue Jackson the last time.

Is there a chance that if/when Stefanski is brought back that it fails and next year is another wasted season? Absolutely, it's the Cleveland Browns, I half expect it.

Is there more uncertainty with firing Stefanski, hiring a new HC and installing a completely new offense for Watson and expecting immediate success? How would Watson feel about this? After all, it was what Stefanski presented to him during the courtship that had Watson wide-eyed about playing for the Browns. Will we be calling for the new HC head if they do not make the playoffs? It would be another wasted season after all.

j/c:

I don't think it's fair to list the Browns record this year as 5 and 12. Could it happen? Sure, but I doubt it.

I want both Berry and Stefanski to return, so I hope this won't be taken out of context. It seems to me that some of the roster decisions made by Berry are more questionable than Stefanski's coaching. I get that folks will disagree, but I don't think it's even a good debate.

I want to be clear in that I want both Berry and Stefanski to return. I don't want yet another upheaval of the roster. I don't want to hear how the new guys need time for a year or two and then repeat the entire procedure over again. The Browns have been caught on The Merry Go Round of Misery that never goes anywhere and just spins aimlessly around and around while they keep bringing in new people who "will get this thing turned around."

Stick w/the plan for once.

Then maybe you could explain this part....


It's obvious he is saying you aren't thinking for yourself and are being influenced instead by what others think. It's obvious no matter his denial to the contrary.

This is a very reasonable take, and I think a lot of people who are looking at this objectively would agree. I could even be swayed to buy into this.

But my gut just tells me something different. It tells me it doesn't matter how much time Stefanski gets, it's not going to get better. I'm trusting what I'm seeing and feeling over what is a very reasonable take.

I don't want to be right. I hope I am wrong (but I rarely ever am).

I’m growing concerned about our draft picks of late too. Not much jumps off the screen. Couple that with the disregard of defensive areas of need and it’s a recipe for a struggling team

I hope Milk is right above ^. My concern is if he's not right - and the pattern isn't favorable - AND your post there ^. There is not much of ANYTHING right now that is promising about this team and Org.

He have a lot of holes and pending-holes with no 1st Rd pick for two more drafts and a team with ONE chip to lure free agents - other than money. It feels like we are staving off a rebuild while needing a lot of upgrades while missing the 1st Rd picks and success-to-build-on that makes us an attractive destination.

Well they did buy a QB so there's that.

Downside we have 23 free agents with about 1.25-1.5 mill to spend on each and we are out of rollover cash.

j/c

I think Berry is on the "hot seat". I think they all are. Not as in there job is in danger, just that there are some issues that need to be reviewed and discussed in detail. When "year end review" comes around I think each member of the coaching staff and FO will have some areas of responsibility that will be looked at as having been a struggle this year - in Berry's case it's a whole body of work of every draft class and free agent period he has overseen. Looking at Berry's draft picks - there are slim pickings for impact players. Looking at free agents maybe he has been more successful?

The only guy I think will actually lose his job no matter what is Joe Woods - it's been a pattern in previous years of his tenure where the D starts off slow and improves after the half way point of the season. I don't know if every team is playing at their best early in the season, but playing badly before turning around after more than 8 games have been played probably isn't going to keep most coaches in place. We can talk about the scheme and a lack of the required DT's to play the scheme Woods wants to employ - but a total lack of adjustment to suit the talent available is a factor. Berry's role in not having those DT's is one more reason he is end of year evaluation might have pointed and some of his decisions examined thoroughly.

Good post.

GM is such a "damned if you do" position in the NFL. You have to solve all previous problems, anticipate new ones before they happen, have an answer for every injury, and somehow come out ahead in the win column... or your job is in serious jeopardy. Definitely not for the faint of heart.

If the Browns want to be a SB contender it starts with
Showing Berry the door.
Berry isn't any different than the other 364 GM failures
That came before him in Berea. Talks a good game. That's
About it. Hire a GM who has never Been a GM before.
Learn on the job. Fail. Repeat.

Not for the faint of heart but for $3.3 million per year I think most of us could grow a thick skin. I think one thing Berry has done exceedingly well is manage the cap ... allowing the Browns to sign a guy like Watson who has the potential to be a difference maker and make the Browns a legit contender if other pieces fall into place .... but you can't just be a numbers/cap guy as the GM.

I think Berry's drafts have been a bit disappointing, but he has done a very good job overall. He did get us an elite qb when it seemed we were doomed to never having one. That can't be discounted. He's smartly extended several key guys like Teller, Bitonio, Hunt, Njoku, etc. While he has missed on some draft picks like Phillips, Delpit, and Elliot, he has also made nice picks w/Newsome and Emerson. Signing Pocic was a very good move. Trading for Cooper was an excellent move.

It's best to keep the key guys in the organization together. I am so tired of fans thinking firing everyone is the smart thing to do. It isn't. Roster reconstructions, changing the culture, hollow promises, shallow excitement, followed by more disappointment. Then, start the process over again.

The continuity factor is always a tricky factor. As you mention extending players, I'm sure Andrew Berry isn't the only guy in the room negotiating long term deals. It doesn't take a genius to extend
Contracts of proven talent. Anybody on this board would have enough sense
To extend Bitonio, Teller and Njoku.
Draft wise Berry has failed to draft impact players.Drafting core talent
Is a how you a pave a road to playoff contention year
In , year out. Compare Berry's drafts history to the other GMs in
The North in that time period. He is 4th out of 4.
When was the last time the Browns had the best GM in the North?
Even if the Browns get to the playoffs in 2023...is that enough reason
To keep him around ?

I have to disagree with you in terms of extending Njoku. There was nothing about his first five years as a pro that would have indicated he would be the player he is now. He did get better at blocking as time went on but from a production standpoint signing him to the contract they did was a rather risky move. It does appear as though it's going to work out but signing him to that contract wasn't a given. I certainly have to give him credit for that one. He's also very good at structuring contracts to make them more team friendly. But to me that takes more of a numbers guy than a guy who evaluates talent.

But maybe that's what analytics told them? After a few drafts maybe the numbers said that buying a QB and giving up the cream of your draft for the next few years was the better option than allowing him to draft one? That maybe giving up the draft picks wasn't that big of a deal considering the outcome by who was drafting the players? I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

Can you take your phone or keyboard off of Haiku mode? These posts are a pain to read.

Not unlike almost any other decision on where to work.

Exactly. At least for the most part. That's why I find it amusing that people buy into all the PR crap about "He wanted to play with Stefanski". I'm sure he wanted to play under a coach that he felt he could work with and have success with. But obviously Stefanski wasn't enough for him to base his decision on that until the Browns offered him that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It is what it is.