DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Off-season upgrades

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It'll be interesting seeing what Indianapolis (GM: Chris Ballard) does with DeForest Buckner.

People think the Colts can trade Buckner in a package deal to Chicago to get the first pick in the draft.

If that doesn't happen, Ballard may simply wave Buckner saving 20 million in cap.

Maybe AB can work a trade similar to the Cooper deal last year.

Interesting. Buckner is still a good player. I like original thoughts. Kudos to you.

Off Season Upgrades:

So I was thinking of approaching this from a purely positive perspective - looking at the coaching staff and roster only with 'best case' scenario. Obviously when I say that I'm also going to be realistic - Anthony Schwartz best case scenario is somehow he becomes a stud slot WR - but the reality is that is very improbable. So 'best case' based with a large dollop of reality:

Coaching Staff:

Head Coach - we have stability at HC and now we will have a full off season with a franchise QB. Stefanski can get back to being a top HC and play caller. With the DC position filled with an experienced and quality individual, KS can delegate without having to get involved day to day.
DC - Schwartz has a impressive track record and tons of experience. Expect whatever parts and pieces he has to work with to be organized and playing up to their potential. Expect the 'studs' to shine.
Special Teams - Reality says I don't expect a metamorphosis. It's entirely conceivable York settles down and is Mr Reliable with ability to hit 60 yarders. Maybe we target and find a return specialist to elevate the PR and KR play.

Roster:

QB - set with Franchise QB who is fully capable of returning to former glory and excel in a KS QB friendly scheme.

WR1 and WR2 - Set with Cooper and DPJ. Cooper runs precise routes and gets separation - DPJ wins most 1 on 1 matchups and jump balls, can continue to improve on some of the excellent play we've seen (again) this year.
WR3 - We need to find a slot guy and/or a deep burner. Very Doable.
TE - Honestly think we are set with Njoku as TE1 and Bryant as TE2. Improving depth should be easy.
RB - we are set even without any additions. Chubb, Johnson, Ford. More than happy to role with that trio.
OL - Need quality depth - but as a starting 5, what we have now is more good enough for both the run and pass game. With Watson's pocket presence and escape-ability - I think we are 100% set with starters, even if Wills only ever grades out as 'Good/Average'.

DE - One side is locked down. I think we have quality back ups in place. Need one starter opposite MG.
DT - They played better in spells during the second half of the season - but realistically you want 2 starters. Winfrey showed flashes in a couple games - maybe the lights come on. Elliot and Togiai more than good enough for depth.
LB - I think JOK will shine. Honestly need to see who fits what Schwartz wants to do, but you figure at least 1 out of Walker, Taki, Fields and Phillips is capable of being a starter if not a stud, and maybe you try to upgrade one LB slot and the others are again capable depth/rotation.
CB - Not sure if Greedy is back due to injury issues, but between Ward, Newsome and Emerson you have 3 quality starters. Ward and Newsome should be elite. I'd bring AJ Green back. Depending on greedy - You might need to add 1 good back up for depth.
Safety - Delpit flashed at the end of the season, if they keep JJ3 - I think Schwartz can make him an impact player like he was with the Rams. It would be nice to add a pure free safety who can flat out cover.

Obviously I'm making some significant assumptions - but ignoring the depth and focusing on positions where we need to sign or draft starters *-1 Slot WR. 1 DE. 2 DT. 1 LB. 1 pure free safety -* Honestly a very doable list. Everything else should be depth. Between the draft, trades, UFA and teams rebuilding and cutting good players on big contracts and cap casualties July 1 etc ...

It's been said before, you don't need studs at every position. And in theory (purely positive perspective) we have studs at QB, RB, WR1, Njoku *might* continue and become a Stud Light, Minimum of 1 stud OG - possibly 2 based on full recovery, DE, LB (JOK), CB1 and CB2. . . . .potentially that's a lot of excellent players. The holes we need filling shouldn't need to be studs.

Quality football post. I don't agree w/all of it, but so what? It's a football post and we need more of that.

We have barley any cap room am I correct? Takitaki snd people hones are both free agents I belive along with a few others. Would love to have Dien Jones back but again we don't have much money

JC

The key to this D is what we do at DT and possibly LB. The best coach and scheme in the world can only do as well has the players available.

Right now we are weak at DT and backer.

That is now. Let's wait and see how that looks come July when camp opens.

As for cap space, since nobody in here knows the in's and outs of the cap or even where the cap limit will be set, I don't worry about that.

The Cap used to be really important. It no longer is. Teams have figured out the loop holes. The Saints were way over the cap every year and still were in position to sign Watson. We have very intelligent guys and I have no worries that they will handle the cap. Not too long ago, a poster was ranting about how there was no way we could keep Conklin. How did that work out?

Back to Upgrades.

Now that Schwartz has been hired, we might want to take a look at some Titans he could bring w/him. One guy is DE, Demarcus Walker. He had 8 sacks and 32 pressures this year. We will need to add to the DE position w/Clowney leaving. This guy could help.

This time last year we knew we had issues at DT (x2) and issues at WR (x?). We picked up Bryan in FA and drafted Winfrey and recycled guys who were awful (again) in Elliot and Togiai...that didn't cut it. The dearth of talent at DT leaves us wondering whether we have sufficient talent at LB as we ran a scheme that was missing half the puzzle pieces.

We have MG at DE and the rookie Wright. Everyone else is fodder...although I really like Isiah Thomas.

We picked up Cooper at WR...so for the first time in recent memory, we had a WR that could actually see the field if he played for the Bengals. DPJ is a good story and a good guy...he catches most everything...but he doesn't get open...he's a great #4 WR...but we don't - and didn't before - have a true #2 (if Cooper is a #1) or a #3-possession-type WR. We drafted a couple WRs who were nothing special...as rookies. Schwartz is...well...who knows.

We appear to be set at CB - with depth - and have Delpit coming back...but we need a FS-type to help cover. I don't remember the last time we had an actual FS-type who was any good.

Outside of WR, the offense has plenty of talent and good depth...but is not without question. We have a big ??? at Center. Wills isn't very good and is up for a contract decision. It's hard to imagine that we will not move towards a passing offense from one centered on the running game. Wills isn't good...Teller is a better run-blocker than pass-blocker...Harris is a HUGE ? at C.

We don't have a #1 pick so premium players at premium positions will have to wait until Rd2 and likely a comp pick at RD3. But we need a lot more than (2) guys drafted on Day 2. Free agency will be the key again this year. That ball got dropped for the '22 season.

We need new starters as follows...at a minimum:

WR
C
DT
DT
FS

Hopefully leadership by the new DC and new scheme will make some of the current 'meh' D guys salvageable. Hopefully Harris is the guy they hoped for when they drafted him. Hopefully Wills gets his head out of his butt. Hopefully Winfrey doesn't go all 'Malik McDowell' on us in the off-season. Hopefully one of the 100 WRs on the roster becomes something viable. I'll stop there so I don't seem sarcastic...but there is more.

I wouldn't assume we don't sign Pocic.

And I don't necessarily think we should, or will, cut John Johnson.

Pocic should be a priority for Berry to sign.

Nick Harris is too much of a risk until he is completely healed from knee surgery and then knee will need to be tested to see if it holds up under game conditions.

We still need to maintain a good O-line especially with a 230-million-dollar QB like DW. This is not the time to skimp on the O-line.

Me neither...but that is another free agent signing ...like we need for DE, DT, DT, FS(?), WR. JJ3's cap hit is crazy for the production we get.

I'm not saying it can't be done...but it is a challenge.

I don't know enough about scheme, scheme-fit, Schwartz' scheme-preferences, etc. However, to my eye it looked last year as if we had a slew of SS-types and no FS-types. SS ---> Delpit, JJ3, Harrison, Bell (& I'd throw JOK at that description as well.)

We might be able to get multiple guys for the JJ3 money we could save with a June 1st cut.

I've held that belief for most of my adult life...and I still do. But...the Bengals passed up Sewell and took Chase instead...and that put them in the SB. More often than not, there is a Bengals pass-catcher running wide open and usually that appears so on the first read. You don't need "a lot" of time when your first read has no defender within five yards of him.

Good point Willie except for one thing; we don't really have a WR that gets open that quickly. Well, maybe Amari but we need another one LOL!!!

WRs impact the game more than LTs or RTs do.

Replay the Bengals game and watch what happened when his OL couldn't protect him.

Look at the Bengals last 3 seasons.
2020 Burrow's rookie year. #9 got destroyed and did not finish the season.

2021- Chose Chase over OL. Chase is a game changer and Burrow knew it. That is why he pushed for Chase even though he was badly beaten as a rookie. Pursued OL but not in the 1st round.

2022- invested in OL after Burrow worked miracles to get the Bengals to the SB behind a sub par OL. Burrow comes into the season after missing all of training camp. Team starts off very slow while #9 dusts off the rust, then They go on a tear, losing zero games since October.

Chase & Burrow are Game Changers. Burrow knew that and the Bengals leadership trusted him.

I do not think DW is the player JB is. I hope I am wrong, but a great QB and a great WR paired with very good WR's almost won the Bengals a SB. The Browns have a better OL than the Bengals as well as a better running game. But, the Bengals are the team to beat not the Browns.

A bad to mediocre O-line affects a team adversely more than anything except maybe a bad QB. Even that could be debatable. With a bad O-line you have no time to pass it can't open holes for the running game and hurts your ST also which leads to many 3 and outs which will wear your D down. We've had some years here since "99 with bad O-lines. How soon some people forget.

By halftime-ish both starting OTs were out as was the starting RG. That's a different argument from "investing in the OL". A starter is such for a reason. They don't have to be great...but the replacement can't suck.

Burrow holds the ball forever when his first read isn't crazy-wide-open or he's not dunking it at the WR at the line of scrimmage.

I don't think JB can sniff...let alone hold...DWs jock. JB has nowhere near the arm talent of DW. DW has ONE good WR to throw to... JB has (3)...arguably (4)...with a damn good TE and a top 5 RB...plus super backup in Perrine.

In today's game, if you had your choice of adding Chase or Joe Thomas in his prime for the 2023 Browns, you are no doubt taking Chase.

The starting LT in that wild card game was the third starter on the OL they lost. They had a very healthy starting OL for most of the season. But going into the wildcard game they were down two starters already. They had already lost both their starting RG and RT. That means at the point they lost their LT in the wild card game they were down three players on their OL.

Bengals 'fighting' through offensive line injuries heading into Divisional Round matchup vs. Bills

https://www.nfl.com/news/bengals-fi...injuries-heading-into-divisional-round-m

As far as getting rid of the ball quickly, Burrow is tied for the fifth fastest to do so in the NFL with an average release time of 2.57 seconds.



Sometimes people focus on the exceptions to the rule rather than the rule itself.

Not true. Everyone can see for themselves. Burrow ranks second overall in the least amount of time to throw in the NFL.



https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2022/REG/all#average-time-to-throw


Edit to add: Those numbers are there even though Burrow is very elusive in the pocket and often buys time for his receivers to get open and/or avoid sacks.

Homes, I think our FO will take care of the OL. We already signed Conklin when the salary cap gurus sic said there was no way we could keep him.

Next gen stats are certainly more reliable than the one I posted.

I did not mean to challenge your stats. I just didn't agree w/WSU's claim.

No, that's fine. I was just trying to give you credit for having a more reliable source than my own.

It takes more than arm talent to be a Top 10 NFL QB.
Burrow processes defenses better Watson does.

Only way I see them getting rid of JJIII and creating a hole to relieve some cap space is if they are able to sign an actually free safety like Jessie Bates. Let Delpit be the box safety in Schwartz defense. Bates is only 26 as well.

If Berry can't work out a deal for an obvious upgrade with a guy like Bates or even Jordan Poyer, I think they keep JJIII. Would be great to see them land Bates.

We SHOULD sign him. He was very good gor is, his absence was obvious when he got hurt. Harris in my opinion isn’t big or strong enough.

I like Bates a lot, but I'm pretty sure he is going to be looking for a huge contract. Do you disagree w/that?

Genuine question ... I've seen posts about the cap not being a big deal in today's NFL. Escalating cap each year and the ability to find loop holes, resign players to new contracts, push the bubble to future years etc

If the cap is such a non factor why wouldn't we be in the market for a premium player at a needed/vital position?

I think you have to be cognizant of the cap. I did not mean to imply that it's a non-factor. I have just seen teams work around the cap for too long. I could be mistaken, but I am not so sure that we should prioritize signing a high-priced safety. I think we need more help at DT, DE, and LBer. I would love to have a true FS, but those guys are few and far between. Another thing, I could be wrong about the money Bates wants. I did not look for a link, but I remember in camp this summer, he was a no-show and I believe they extended him for almost $13 million for this year alone and he will now be a FA.

Here is an article about it.


Here's why the Bengals and Jessie Bates failed in contract negotiations
Kelsey Conway
Cincinnati Enquirer






For the first time since the 2021 season, Cincinnati Bengals safety Jessie Bates took to the podium at Paycor Stadium.

Bates, who skipped the first few weeks of training camp due to failed contract negotiations, was asked point blank why, in over the course of two years, he and the Bengals have yet to be able to get a long-term extension done.

“I don’t know,” Bates said on Wednesday. “I don’t think that’s my question to answer. I think it’s a great opportunity to continue to present what I’m about to, who I am, to this franchise and other teams as well. So, like I said, I’m looking at this as an opportunity to prove that I’m one of the best safeties in this league. I’m not sure why I’m not paid yet.”The Bengals and Bates have been in negotiation process for some time now. Cincinnati’s front office feels like they’ve made a fair offer, twice, and Bates wants more than what the Bengals are offering.


Cincinnati Bengals:How Cincinnati Bengals avoid Jessie Bates' absence being distraction

Jessie Bates contract:Bengals' Jessie Bates stands to gain from Chargers safety Derwin James' contract extension

Bengals know Joe Burrow, Ja'Marr Chase, Tee Higgins deals are coming


Each side has justified its reasoning for why a contract extension hasn’t been agreed on. The Bengals put a certain number on what they were willing to offer Bates, calculated specifically knowing they have a megadeal coming with their quarterback Joe Burrow and wide receivers Tee Higgins and Ja’Marr Chase down the line.


There’s only so much money to go around. As Bengals’ owner and team president Mike Brown said, it’s a puzzle, and sometimes it doesn’t always fit.

Bates, however, feels that he’s one of the top safeties in the league and wants to be paid as such. Despite not being at practice with his teammates all offseason and through the first few weeks of training camp, Bates says he’s in the best shape of his life and expects to play in the Week 1 season-opener against the Pittsburgh Steelers. He kept his iPad from last season and watched every practice and every individual period the Bengals have done so far.


When asked if he’s looking at this year as his last with the Bengals, Bates opted not to say one way or the other. Due to the franchise tag rules, the Bengals and Bates can no longer negotiate while the season is underway. Contract talks can pick back up following the season, but for now, everything is tabled. This year will mark Bates' fifth in Cincinnati and he'll make nearly $13 million fully guaranteed after signing the franchise tag contract on Tuesday.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...s-cincinnati-bengals-failed/65418308007/

A link to Bates' contract. I'm wondering if Milk intended to add credence to us perhaps keeping JJIII?


That did not work. The site was Spotrac.com

Here is another site w/his contract details.



https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/jessie-bates-contract

The Bengals have to decide to either give a long term
Deal to Bates or Tee Higgins. I think Tee gets the Long term deal.the Bengals
Let Jessie Bates walk. It's easier to find a replacement for Bates
Than it is Higgins. Plus the Bengals will have to extend
LB Logan Wilson who is a top 5 NFL LB.

He is going to get a nice pay day for the safety position. Bengals could franchise tag him a second time.

Spotrac has his market value calculated at a 4yr deal for $42M with a yearly average of $10.6M. That's doable. It's about the guaranteed money for Bates and all about the contract structure for Berry. I'm confident Berry could structure a deal that would work for both parties if that's the direction they choose to go.