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Versatile Dog #2001367 01/24/23 01:51 PM
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Thanks for a thoughtful response.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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FATE #2001457 01/25/23 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by FATE
Yes, the Watson move is a gamble. But I like this gamble better than all of these...


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That's one of us! rolleyes

I hope it works out simply because I want to win. But I have more doubts than good feelings right now.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 01/25/23 01:45 AM.

Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
OldColdDawg #2001529 01/25/23 04:40 PM
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OCD it's nice to be optimistic but that is very hard if you're a Browns fan. How can you not have doubts with our history? The league used to laugh at the Bengals all the time for many years but at least they made it to 3 Super Bowls and are on the cusp of making another one. They've been more successful than us hands down!

Homewood Dog #2001536 01/25/23 05:20 PM
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HWD. Here is the thing about history.

It is in the past. It doesn't count at all when a new season begins.

there are so many different factors that go into a season the past is left far behind.

We can all speculate about things like how DW will play or for that matter any player. It doesn't count. We lost the Jets game in a manor that seemed inconceivable. All the percentages from the past meant nothing.

2023 will begin a new season. What will happen is determined on each and every play.

The factory of sadness BS and all the gloom and doom forecasted by some. Doesn't count.

We have a team that should compete. How it will end will depend on so many factors that it is impossible to predict.

bonefish #2001554 01/25/23 06:52 PM
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History is in the past but we seem to bring OUR history to the present every year. I've got no axes to grind with you Bone and I enjoy reading your posts but it's the same nonsense with us every year. You mentioned the Jets game. Awful, should have never happened right? It hadn't happened like that in 20 years and what team was the last to do it? US back in 2002 against the Bears. Over 2100 games and we were the last and first to do it again. Year after year we can't stop the run, we give up points before the half all the time and there's probably more that I can't think of right now. Other teams may do this too but we do it consistently year after year while we make the playoffs once a decade and never win our division. SAD!!!!

Homewood Dog #2001556 01/25/23 07:06 PM
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We are just discussing.

Well it is sad. However, 2023 is a new and different year. IMO the defense will be way better just because of Jim Schwartz. I think the run defense will vastly improve and players will know assignments.

I also believe that Woods misused players Newsome, and JOK in particular.

We play in a tough division. That is reality and in order to win the North. We have to be better. Deshaun Watson was a calculated risk. A huge investment that has to pay off if we are to win. We will have to see how that plays out. But it was a decision that I think will at least give us a chance.


bonefish #2001558 01/25/23 07:11 PM
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I agree. I think our D will be better under JS and DW was a good gamble because we needed more talent at QB to compete with the best teams in our conference. Let's just hope DW gets back to his playing level of a few years ago.

bonefish #2001569 01/25/23 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish


I also believe that Woods misused players Newsome, and JOK in particular.



Re: JOK. Absolutely.

AZBrown #2001576 01/26/23 07:00 AM
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I believe it will be a pleasant surprise how well the defense will play.

There is talent on the defense. Myles, Ward, Newsome, JOK, Delpit, Emerson, even Winfrey these are talented players.

Other guys like Taki, Walker, and even JJ3 are starter caliber players who can play in a scheme and be productive in defined roles.

The pieces to have a good defense are there. We just need to add players who are not liabilities and coach them properly.


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bonefish #2001706 01/26/23 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
I believe it will be a pleasant surprise how well the defense will play.

There is talent on the defense. Myles, Ward, Newsome, JOK, Delpit, Emerson, even Winfrey these are talented players.

Other guys like Taki, Walker, and even JJ3 are starter caliber players who can play in a scheme and be productive in defined roles.

The pieces to have a good defense are there. We just need to add players who are not liabilities and coach them properly.


Agree 100%



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bonefish #2001725 01/27/23 12:12 AM
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Yeah as really Watson realizes second chances don't come very easy. Hope he can really redeem himself on and off the field.


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bonefish #2002304 01/31/23 01:18 PM
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j/c...


Milk Man #2002397 02/01/23 10:53 AM
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LMAO. That relationship is going to crash and burn.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
OldColdDawg #2002402 02/01/23 11:04 AM
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Lol. Yep. Next season.

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bonefish #2002729 02/04/23 12:03 AM
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Has Baltimore become dysfunctional by not signing Lamar and franchise tagging him?

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No.

Lamar is representing himself along with his mother. It makes dealing difficult. They do not know all the in's and out's of these types of negotiations.

Baltimore is in a tight spot. They know Lamar wins. At the same time how do you commit major money long term to a guy who failed to play when it counts most? He could have played in the playoffs. Mahomes did. The team knows it. In addition he has missed a lot of games. If you are Baltimore would you want to commit to a long term highly expensive contract to guy you have to expect will miss games. Knowing you starve the roster to pay the qb.

If I was Baltimore I would do what the Texans did with DW. I would auction Lamar off for all I could get. Draft a quarterback at the top of the draft on a rookie deal and back load the team. Put talent all over the field.

bonefish #2002773 02/04/23 11:38 AM
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The difference is the Texans didn't have a choice.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2002787 02/04/23 12:04 PM
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Prediction: By week 3, neither will the Ravens. wink


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FATE #2002788 02/04/23 12:06 PM
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I wonder why you think that? Do you think Lamar will refuse to play under the franchise tag or that we will sign a new contract and refuse to honor it? Or maybe some other reason?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I think he's a bit of head case (could very well be wrong) and seems immature (plenty of evidence). Just reading tea leaves here...

Stories come out that "Lamar will help choose next OC". My immediate thought -- yep they're kissing his butt, stroking his ego, trying to get the deal done.

Few days later: franchise tag.

The Ravens probably reworked the previous offers with a little more money, a little more guaranteed money, and the promise: "Lamar, we want to build this thing together, that's why we're letting you help pick your next OC".

Lamar and mommy said "Watson money or pound salt".

Ravens made their choice.


He won't do anything more than necessary during camp / preseason and will come in pouty. After first loss, he'll demand a trade, ahead of the deadline.


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FATE #2002797 02/04/23 12:55 PM
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That's quite a bit of prognostication. Not saying it couldn't happen though.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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It's out there lol. I'm sure I'm wrong. More of a "wouldn't surprise me a bit" (and wishful thinking) than anything else.


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FATE #2002812 02/04/23 02:14 PM
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I am not making predictions, but there are former players saying that Lamar should not play under the Franchise tag. Not sure if they know what they are talking about or not.

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That has no bearing on the Ravens choice.

It is merely an example of what they could expect in return. Last season KC traded Tyreek Hill. I thought it was a brilliant move.

Miami traded five draft picks to the Kansas City Chiefs for Hill: a first-rounder, a second-rounder, two fourths and a sixth. Losing Hill did not seem to hurt them.

That is a lot of draft capital for a guy they could not afford to pay.

The franchise tag will be a heavy price. A contract could choke them. Unless Lamar somehow becomes reliable that is really rolling the dice.

I don't care what they do. The Browns will have to beat other teams and other great quarterbacks to achieve their goals.

Lamar is a handful but it appears teams are figuring out to play against him.

They are moving on from Greg Roman. They have not yet signed a new OC. Byron Leftwich and Todd Monken are in the mix.

If the Ravens go to a more standard offensive scheme using WR's more. Lamar may not look the same or be as effective. IMO Lamar wants to be a passer. Roman created a running based attack.

No matter what happens it will be interesting to follow. The owner I am sure is deep into all of this.

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What has no bearing on the "Raven's choice"? As we've seen sometimes the choice isn't in the hands of the team. Sometimes it's the player who makes the choice.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Then his options are to refuse to play, correct?

Not sure exactly how it works.

I've said for a couple years that I was pretty sure the Ravens would chew him up and spit him out, depending on performance and injuries. I've marveled at the fact that they didn't try to change him; most teams do because they're worried about injuries.

He's an electric player. He also seems to get in his own head and perform badly when frustrated... and now we have a couple season-ending injuries that destroyed the teams chances of a championship.

I'm not sure if either side is right or wrong... No player who has played for the opportunity for the real contract wants to be tagged. Anything could happen, especially an injury, that could literally cost them 100M+. I get it.

Problem is, Lamar wants Watson money -- he's not getting it, not from Baltimore or anyone else. Not today, anyway. His only chance at Watson money is to turn in another MVP performance and take his team deep into the playoffs. Baltimore does not want to pay him Watson money, at least not yet, and is playing by the rules to have another season and opportunity to see if his talent puts them over the top.

Sitting out costs him, what, 45M this year? In the prime of his career? Seems like a tough gamble when you're paying 45 to sit at the table. jmo


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Lamar has not refused to play... yet.

All you "hear" is they including the owner want him. Lamar has said he wants to be there. Maybe it all PC.

It is an interesting situation.

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Yeah, he won't have many options. He can't refuse the tag. Players don't usually like the franchise tag due to there not being enough security, but they don't have many options. Players might hold out during camps and through the pre-season. Not sure about this, but I think LeVean Bell was the only dude to sit out a full season.

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Bell eventually landed a 52M contract with the Jets, but never returned to form. He also left 13M on the table by missing the season. He rushed for less in the next three seasons combined than he did in his last year with the Steelers. Meanwhile the Steelers were fine with Conner, and Tomlin responded to Bell's holdout with "we want volunteers, not hostages".

I guess, if the relationship was broken anyway, he did just fine moneywise. But as far as his career trajectory -- careful what you wish for?

It will be interesting to see how this all works out.


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No doubt. I actually think Bell ruined his career w/that move.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
No.

Lamar is representing himself along with his mother. It makes dealing difficult. They do not know all the in's and out's of these types of negotiations.

Baltimore is in a tight spot. They know Lamar wins. At the same time how do you commit major money long term to a guy who failed to play when it counts most? He could have played in the playoffs. Mahomes did. The team knows it. In addition he has missed a lot of games. If you are Baltimore would you want to commit to a long term highly expensive contract to guy you have to expect will miss games. Knowing you starve the roster to pay the qb.

If I was Baltimore I would do what the Texans did with DW. I would auction Lamar off for all I could get. Draft a quarterback at the top of the draft on a rookie deal and back load the team. Put talent all over the field.

Baltimore is going forward with Huntley and a rookie; at least, I bet that's how this plays out in the end, rather intentional or not.


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Originally Posted by FATE
I think he's a bit of head case (could very well be wrong) and seems immature (plenty of evidence). Just reading tea leaves here...

Stories come out that "Lamar will help choose next OC". My immediate thought -- yep they're kissing his butt, stroking his ego, trying to get the deal done.

Few days later: franchise tag.

The Ravens probably reworked the previous offers with a little more money, a little more guaranteed money, and the promise: "Lamar, we want to build this thing together, that's why we're letting you help pick your next OC".

Lamar and mommy said "Watson money or pound salt".

Ravens made their choice.


He won't do anything more than necessary during camp / preseason and will come in pouty. After first loss, he'll demand a trade, ahead of the deadline.

I don't think it's anything to do with Lamar the person. I think the Ravens know they either have to pay him like DW or move on. And rather the team thinks he quit on them, I don't know, but I do know I'm not paying a QB that kind of money if he struggles to stay healthy every year. I don't think the big money will ever be offered and one side (the most frustrated) will walk. But for next year, they franchised him and I think he plays under the tag until mid-season before any of this becomes a real distraction. But when mid-season comes and the talks have stalled, I predict drama.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 02/04/23 10:28 PM.

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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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And rather the team thinks he quit on them, I don't know, but I do know I'm not paying a QB that kind of money if he struggles to stay healthy every year.

If the Ravens pay Lamar, his health will improve... thumbsup




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Well that sounds like they are not even on the same book. Let alone the same page.

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Anew book was written when watson was signed.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
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The contract of Eric Bieniemy is set to expire after the Super Bowl, and according to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, he is considered a “prime candidate” to land the same role with the Baltimore Ravens.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/08/ravens-chiefs-eric-bieniemy-prime-candidate/

mmmm. That would be interesting. Lamar is supposed to be involved in the search.

IMO Lamar has a chip on his shoulder about how he is viewed as a passer. I believe he wants to be in a passing scheme to get the recognition as a passer.

I am speculating. But that is what I think.

Bieniemy coming from KC with Reid. Passing is king. Lamar could get the chance to prove most wrong. Or, he could fall flat.

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I don't think Lamar wants anything more than Lamar getting PAID. Period. Somebody said they were one hundred million dollars apart! All the feel-better scheming in the world will not budge him that much. I'm so interested to see what Kind of deal him and his mom can negotiate on the free agency market. I think he thinks way too much of himself, and the Browns way overpaid/guaranteed DW complicating the situation. Not saying DW can't earn it in the long run, but that figure guaranteed was ridiculous and we all know it.


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It is pretty odd. Since Lamar was drafted the Ravens have made the playoffs every year but one. They've had double digit wins in every year but one since he was drafted. It seems that's a better resume' than QB's who were recently signed to much more money than Baltimore is offering.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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The money is going to do nothing but go up. Burrow will drive the market as will others.

The new OC has not yet been determined. The Ravens with Lamar on the roster will reach that point where upgrading the team at other positions will become very hard. Dropping big money on receivers may not be an option.

The organization IMO has to start to look at options. Can they win with Huntley and what they would get in return for trading Lamar?

That is a really hard question to answer. The money will give them free agent options to upgrade plus they would have serious draft assets.

That could be attractive.

If I were them and they got a really good offer for Lamar. I would trade him.

You could put together a very strong complete team with Huntley. You would be able to draft a quarterback and still have high draft capital.

So yes I would trade him. Keeping in mind the risk of signing Lamar with his injury history and how limited spending would be with him.

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