DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Watson Trade continued

Originally posted by Eotab: from page 8.

The trade is why Kevin Stefanski will not be considered to get fired this year. He is a terrible HC, Oh right he won HC of the year in a year that there was not much coaching because of Covid and his ONE GAME OF FAME winning a Playoff game for our Browns...oh wait he could not coach that game cause of Covid. But his glaring weaknesses popped up in all our losses - His desire to pass, pass, and pass so that for example in our last game. The best player on O (not Watson) is Chubb. He ran 12 times for 77 yds a fantastic 6.5 yds per carry. But Stef is closely linked to Watson. We fear the only thing that can make this trade worse than what it is would be to lose Watson after his 5 year contract is up.

When the trade was made I looked at Watson and his incredible stats in 2020 what really bothered me was after having those stats the teams record was 4-12 terrible just terrible I think it was 4-10 under Watson as he might have missed 2 games??? that bothered me a lot.

Well I tried to tell all this was not a Watson vs. Mayfield thread but some just cant let it go. This was about THE TRADE which had Watson involved and his play is in question as it must be not good but GREAT to start justifying this Trade. Have a happy New year everyone and who will you be rooting for in the playoffs? KC? Bills? Cowboys? Hey at least we got the draft to look forward to...OH WAIT no we don't.

end @uote.

Well they have Watson now, and he ain't missing anymore time and the future is bright.
I wonder where DW will rank among @b's in the AFC next year.
Is he better than Trever Lawrence today, and then, what happens on the Titans and Colts, Will the Texans have a franchise @b in the near future, so would DW rank in the top ten of AFC @b's? in 23, 24.

The Future is bright?

Based on what?

Based on the fact this franchise has a franchise QB going into the offseason for the first time since the end of the 1992 season. When you have a QB then it should make it much easier to build the team around.

Since Bernie Kosar the team has always had to explore all options. Now it is what is the best way to build around him. I think that qualifies as the future is bright.

The future is bright b/c they, the team, landed their trade, they went all in on a big @uarterback and he ended up here, not only that,
but, after November the massage lawsuit stuff @uieted down relative to before, and even Jimmeh Haslam himself said in an interview that he hopes DW is here for a few years, or many years, I forget the exact word.
They could have went all in and ended up missing out on DW for DW going to a different team, but they didn't, so,
the team has this ALLEGED top guy Alleged franchise @uarterback.
I don't think it was the "worst trade ever" even if I think it was a bad one, and hard to swallow.

Today, they already, suffered through one of three first round picks being gone, there are 2 more to absorb not having.
2 more drafts without a first, this April and next April, by twenty five... whew, the Browns would have a first, probably a top ten, haha.

The bright part of the future is Watson is on the team, he's not in jail, or another only in Cleveland scenario.
he didn't end a year b/c he ran a 40 in no shoes, or crash his motorcycle, or whatever, YET
imo,
THAT is the bright part of the future, you have a GUY
NOW, you have to find something to put around him, and that can make a play more than once a month.

Based on the Browns have won seven plus games in 3 straight years... given the track record...
of course they can't help but rebuild,
this time the D coordinator, and ... ? more to come? they can't help but rebuild, the do almost every year.

Maybe this next years' first year plan will be better than last years' first year plan.

What you mean is that we have a former franchise QB... But that by no means means he's going to be a Franchise QB going forward. No guarantees.... based on what we saw of him this past season, there are simply no guarantees...,.,

TL, I hope you are right.. I've just now seen any proof of that yet.

This is where I am too. I was really underwhelmed by Watson, even by the end of the 6 games. He looked really hesitant in the pocket, had a much weirder throwing motion than I recalled, and seemed like he was having trouble processing the game

True. Nothing is guaranteed. Joe Burrough might never play another good game in his life.

He probably will, and so is the probability Watson does as well. Past performance usually dictates future performance until a person gets past their prime years, but we aren't there yet.

I think the chances are very good that Watson is going to be just fine moving forward.

I hope you really don't believe what you are writing. Watson was playing this year with players that never played with him in the past. Even Bitonio said the line will need to change their blocking strategy because of how he holds the ball and then tries to make plays with his feet. The receivers will need to learn how to break off their routes and get on the same page with Watson when he leaves the pocket. These are all things that was not going to get worked out in the final 6 games. Besides that Watson lead the team to a 3-3 mark while shaking the rust off and playing with players that he was unfamiliar with and that were unfamiliar with him. Also, Stefanski's playbook. Both Watson and Stefanski were feeling each other out to see what plays fit Watson's strength and what does not. This offseason will be huge for this team. I fully expect Watson to get back to the form of a QB that beat the Bills in the playoffs and built an early lead on the Chiefs in the 2nd round. A QB that threw for over 700 yards in 2 playoff games with zero int's. Those 6 shake the rust off games were huge for he and Stefanski. And this offseason will be huge for the Browns.

Yes - I'm there with you. On both Watson and Stefanski. Major concerns. . . I believe it's equally probable that Watson reverts to very close to his best years in HOU - and Stefanski becomes/confirms he is a very good HC. As it is that: Watson will never be the QB he was in HOU, or that his stats in HOU were distorted and misleading - and the reality is he's an average to above average QB that's exceedingly athletic, throws a pretty ball but can't process fast enough. And that KS is an average/below average HC. I think Jim Donovan expressed it best when reviewing end of yer performance: Watson had one good half in 6 games, that was disappointing. We don't know what next year holds. The reality is we just have to hope and stay positive. Well, we can choose to try to stay positive or not... up to the individual and there's nothing wrong with either perspectives (positive or negative) in my eyes.

The obvious difference being that within the last two years Burrows has played at a consistently high level. Watson has not - in terms of real risk and real probability, one player represents real risk of not being a FQB the other not so much.

Don't forget i said that Burrough probably will play more good games.

While there may be more risk that Watson won't regain what he had, it isn't a big enough risk to spend the off-season fretting about it.

It doesn't do any good to fret about it though I'm sure some will. I will point out that many on this very board said he would come back rusty and as his starts went on he would improve and begin to look like his old self. That's not what happened. Though there were a few slight improvements here and there, you wouldn't have been able to tell by his last start. In his sixth start he threw 2 int's and the Browns O could only muster 14 points.

I certainly wouldn't try to draw any final conclusions based on that. But as of now the process hasn't moved along as quickly as most on here thought it would.

I absolutely believe there are no guarantees! Look, I want Watson to do well. If he does, that means the Browns have a shot. But there are NO guarantees... it's that simple. And again, if you base it on his performance this year, there is nothing to get excited about.


As I've said a million times, I want to be wrong.., but I don't know if I will be. As for this off season being huge for the Browns, I think you mean to say, you HOPE it will be huge for the Browns...

Based on most of the QB play I saw this past weekend we need a high end QB to compete for a Super Bowl. That's why we went out and traded for DW. Let's hope he can get back to playing like one.

If you're referring to the AFC then that would appear to be true, this year. If you look at the NFC though, SFO certainly doesn't qualify as having a high end QB and though Hurts is having a fabulous year, he was the 21st rated passer in 2021 and one year doesn't qualify you as being high end passer though it looks very promising. SFO is proving that way of thinking is not totally accurate. I think Watson will be a valuable asset and will improve the QB play but if the other many issues are not addressed, he's not taking this team to any Super Bowl. Just remember, in 2020 he was the top-rated passer on a 4-12 Texans team that had Cooks, Fuller, and Cobb as WR's with All Pro LT Tunsil and a defense led by All Pro J.J. Watt.

Thanks for posting the stuff about Watson's WRs and JJ Watt. Let's take a closer look at those guys.


Fuller had 53 receptions for 879 yards. In the following two years, he has a grand total of 4 receptions for 26 yards.

Cooks had 81 catches w/Watson for 1150 yds. Since that time, he has averaged 73.5 receptions per year and averaged 868 yds per year.

Cobb secured 38 receptions for 441 yds w/Watson. He has averaged 31 catches and 396 yds w/Aaron Rodgers in GB.

All three guys did better w/Watson than they did w/out him. Perspective is a cool thing.

Regarding JJ Watt. Anyone remember the apology he issued to Watson? Here is an article about it.



Texans' J.J. Watt apologizes to Deshaun Watson for 'wasting' 2020 season
The Texans went 4-12
Chris Bengel

By Chris Bengel
Jan 5, 2021 at 1:36 pm ET
•

After registering double-digit wins in each of the prior two seasons, the Houston Texans struggled during the 2020 campaign, finishing at 4-12 record. Late in the season, star defensive end J.J. Watt was very outspoken about the play of the Texans, and that didn't change shortly after the team's 2020 season came to a close.

As Watt and Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson were walking off the field on Sunday following a 41-38 loss to the Titans, Watt apologized to Watson and said that he was sorry for "wasting" one of Watson's years.

"I'm sorry. We wasted one of your years. I mean, we should have 11 wins," Watt said.



While the Texans did make the playoffs a season ago, the franchise underwent significant changes last offseason. Houston elected to trade star wideout DeAndre Hopkins to the Arizona Cardinals in exchange for running back David Johnson. While Johnson did register 1,005 scrimmage yards this season, Hopkins was sorely missed. Also, Will Fuller missed the final four games of the season after being suspended six games for performance-enhancing substances.

The big move was that the team fired head coach Bill O'Brien just four games into the season. Romeo Crennel served as the interim head coach following O'Brien's departure.


It's possible that this could be Watt's final year with the Texans. He is scheduled to make $17.5 million in 2021, but it's possible that the team could elect to trade or release him if they're in a rebuilding phase.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-as-eagles-49ers-brace-for-nfc-slugfest/

Has anyone ever seen a race car driver lose their edge? They drive slower and process everything slower than everyone else because they are scared.

Watson looks like he lost his edge.

I don't know if what you're saying is true but even if DW is a little "scared" he'll be better than any other QB we've had since "99. All those QB's were " SCARY"

And yet they were still 4-12.

regardless of the record. We are still in last place in the division.

Since 2007:

We have finished
1st | 0 times
2nd | 1 time - 2007
3rd | 4 times - 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021
4th | 15 times (not listing them out. it would take too long)

Texans had no offensive weapons in the 4-12 season other than DW and Cooks... they made a horrible trade for Hopkins.... Fuller I think they cut or was hurt all year, and they had no running back... they fired BOB after four games and RAC took over... they were 4th in passing offense... 31st in rushing... and their defense was trash..... pass defense was 24th and rushing was 31st.... that season wasn't DW's fault...

Edit: Looked it up... Fuller was suspended for part of the season...

Fuller started/played in 11 games. He was out the second game, came back the next game, and then was suspended week 12 through 16.

Cooks started/played 15 games, so he at least played in every game except one.

Cobb played in 10 games (started 2). He went to the IR in week 11.

They also had David Johnson who had about 700 yards in 12 games.

Good Ole Duke Johnson had 235.

The achilles heel for the team was RAC their head coach when they went 4-12.

well... they were 0-4 when RAC took over... their defense was trash, so I guess you can blame RAC.... DW played well that season, but they have a crappy running game and horrible defense... they gave up almost 30 points a game that year...

So in summary, we've concluded that ONE man does not make a TEAM.

As always, you move the goal posts instead of just admitting you were wrong. There was no talk of "demanding a trade" in anything steve and I were debating.

steve mentioned the Texans WRs and JJ Watt. I countered w/the 3 WRs production w/and w/out Watson to demonstrate that they performed better w/Watson than they did w/out him. I also included an apology from JJ Watt, whose Texan defense was beyond terrible.

No one said a word about what Watson did a year later until your big mouth showed up and attempted to change the narrative. Go find another topic to try and start a fight.

I understand how you would like to sidestep and blame me for that. But let's look at a quote you posted from J.J. you used in an attempt to make it sound like the team let watson down. As a matter of fact that was the entire content of your post....


So in your attempt to walk away from that and admit that watson did even worse than that the very next season, you blame someone else for pointing that out. Same as it ever was.

The new album just dropped!

With the hit single "Yet You Refuse".

Awe. And you're joining in the choir when what I posted was spot on. You do realize that the things your're posting only serve to embolden me even more, right?



Mindless memes are a sign you have no game.

Which is what you and some of your cronies always do. Thanks for encouraging me BTW.

If you want to continue looking like a fool, that's your issue, not ours. But you do you.

So those who have no legitimate response and only have the ability to attack the messenger are the brainiacs in your world?



Having an alternative reality is a real thing with some of you isn't it?

It doesn't take a dummy to understand what you are trying to prove by saying the WR performed better with Watson than without. I love how you try to spin the topic to match your agenda of Watson raising the play of those around him. However, you still didn't answer the question about his elite status only delivering a 4-12 record.

I'm also a little tired of the false claim that Watson had no weapons in 2020. Compared to the Browns weapons in 2022:

Texans #1 WR Fuller had 8 TD's in 11 games started (.73 per gm) - Browns #1 WR Cooper had 9 TD's in 17 games started (.53 per gm)
Texans #2 WR Cooks had 6 Td's in 15 games started (.40 per gm) - Browns #2 WR DPJ had 3 TD's in 17 games played (.18 per gm)
Texans #3 WR's had 6 TD's in 16 games played (.38 per gm) - Browns #3 WR's hade 0 TD's in 17 games played (.00 per gm)
Texans TE's accounted for 7 TD's in 16 games (,44 per gm) - Browns TE's accounted for 5 TD's in 17 games played (.29 per gm)
Texans RB's accounted for 7 rushing TD's and 4 receiving TD's in 16 games (.69 per gm) - Browns RB's accounted for 15 rushing TD's and 2 receiving TD's in 17 games (1.00 per gm)
Texans TD Red Zone Pct 54.0% - Browns TD Red Zone Pct 53.6
Texans Sacks 49 (3.06 per game) - Browns Sacks 44 (2.59 per gm) [Watson had 20 sacks in 6 games for 3.33 per gm]

Every skilled offensive position on the Texans in 2020 outperformed the Browns 2022 skilled positions in scoring except at RB.

Here's a couple of other nuggets to chew on:

Watson's average sacks per game in 2022 @ 3.33 is the highest rate of sacks per game by a Browns QB with a minimum of 5 starts since 2016 when GriffinIII had 4.40 per in 5 games.

The 2022 Browns Red Zone offense of 53.6% was the lowest it's been since 2017 when it was 48.7% with Kiser as the starting QB.

Let's break this down to what he is really saying. He's saying watson is better than Tyrod Taylor and Davis Mills. Which would be very hard to disagree with. Those were the Texans starting QB's in 2021 when watson refused to play for the team. I'm not so sure that's a big talking point however.

Cobb played the last two years w/Aaron Rodgers in GB.

We all knew what the record is. You are bringing it up now because your deception did not work. The articles are out there and I've posted them on here. Houston's defense was atrocious and their OL was bad. That's not news, but you want others to know the truth.

Here are few stats for you.

Defense:

DVOA: 30th

Pass D: 29th

NY/A: 28th

Run DVOA: 29th

Yds. per Carry: 32nd



Let's look at the OL

Watson completed 78.42% of his passes from 0-10 yards, 64.19% of his passes from 10-20 yards, and 50% of his passes from 20+. In every segment of the field he was nearly automatic. He’s one of the best intermediate and deep passers in the NFL at only the age of 25. He’s only going to get better.

The pass protection was a problem again this season though. After hoping Houston finally found an offensive line configuration that would last throughout the season, the Texans started five different offensive lines. Max Scharping was weak and unprepared to play. He was benched for Senio Kelemete and Brent Qvale, and it took injuries to each to get him back in the game. Injuries to Tytus Howard and Laremy Tunsil put the tackle position out of sorts at times too.

Watson was sacked 49 times, he was pressured on 26.6% of his dropbacks (9th highest), and was hit 50 times (13th most). Of course, part of this is the result of how Watson plays the game. The spectacular has its drawbacks. But Watson didn’t hold onto the ball for an egregious amount of time. The offensive line that had three first round picks, three second round picks, and $32 million invested into it, came together to create a run offense that finished last in DVOA, and provided below average pass protection once again. Peace out Mike Devlin.


https://www.battleredblog.com/2021/2/18/22289613/a-look-at-the-numbers-from-the-texans-2020-season


That same article had this to say about Watson's season.


Stop trying to trick people. It's getting on people's nerves and some don't even want to post due the nonsense you--and a few others---continue to spew.

Were you appointed as their spokesperson or did you take on that position of your own volition? I'm guessing it was the latter. I do understand how you find a point of view that questions the QB, HC or many others at any level whatsoever quite offensive however. You show it on a consistent basis.