DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum WR room now

We all know how it goes, someone gets discarded (schwartz) and someone else feels they can get more out of him so they pick him up... He'll get another chance or two.

That often times happens with former first rounders. Less often with former second rounders and even less often with former third rounders. And so on and so on and so on.

A certainly agree with you. Sometimes, and I would include Schwartz in that conversation, you're left scratching your head about a draft pick that is made. I along with many didn't get it then and still to this day don't get him being drafted as high as he was. But what I realize is that I certainly do not have all the resources available to me with which to make such a decision. I am not, nor do I have an expert scouting staff feeding me vital information with which to make such a decision on a draft pick. All I have is my own opinion based on the limited information I have. I believe that gives me a pretty good grasp on my limitations and it's why I will express my opinion on draft picks I certainly understand in the grand scheme of things I'm not the one making a six or seven figure figure salary to figure that out and make those calls. There's a reason for that.

So much like yourself I far more question a FO when they keep holding on to a draft pick who has shown he simply isn't going to pan out.

If we do Draft a rookie ... I could see us keeping 7 WRs' and only 3 RBs' ... with Kelly or another RB on the PS.

The only question mark out of those 6 you listed would be if Grant doesn't return to form as our RS.

j/c:

Grant was brought aboard to be our PR answer and be an appx #4 WR last season. With the kind of injury he had, it's hard to imagine he'll still be around after camp. It's a shame, because our new ST coach is going to be looking forward to eventually cementing that PR position after so many seasons of needing it.

jmho

The sad part about Schwartz, is that his problems are mostly mental. I can relate as I dealt with some of those performance anxiety issues before many...MANY....years ago. You look at this kid, especially from a players perspective, and there is so much to like. He has talent, and he works HARD. You can tell by how his teammates rally around him. They continually encourage him. I have read story after story about how the QB's and other players tried to help him and put the mistakes in the past...He is a really good kid. Players don't do that for divas or guys that just don't have it. Think about Damon Sheehy-Guisseppi (sp).....Kid worked his tail off...and when he had success...the team mobbed him.

But the NFL, in the end, is a results (and money) driven league. And so for his sake, I will pull for him and wish him well if it does not come to pass.

Feel completely the same, I'm pretty content with our WR core. I think the need for DT, DE, 3rd safety, OT, ICB, all trump WR as of now. I understand the luxury of drafting BPA, however it doesn't hold true when you still have holes. I just feel if we draft a WR-they will be buried the depth of Coop, DPJ, Moore, Goodwin, Grant and maybe even Bell. We have Darden, Stevenson, Harley, Baldwin, Schwartz...whom are all young and I'm sure coaches are confident they can develop at least one of them into a worthy depth piece. IMO I'd just rather see perhaps a Jatarvius Martin providing our safety depth and sliding down to our nickel role on defense, or a DT rotating in and playing a role versus say drafting a WR there whom will be buried depth wise.

Despite not having a pick until the 3rd round, should be nice to see whom we grab and develop. I still think we are going defense heavy, Schwartz wants a strong Dline rotation...and that will continue with another DT and DE imo.

Probably so. The speed is what got him drafted and speed will keep in on other teams radars for another team or two..

He probably won't get more than a airline ticket guarantee to and from camp if needed, so it isn't going to cost a team much to give him a look. Our hope at this point is he is a late bloomer and he blooms in camp and this season.

Berry has a soft spot for Schwartz for whatever reason.
But Schwartz lacks the mental and physical toughness
To play at this level. The game is too big for him.
Let him go to the XFL and reinvent himself
But Schwartz is a prime example of why the Browns have faltered
Under Berry as GM

Things have solidified IMO:

Cooper
DPJ
Moore
Bell
Tillman
Goodwin OR Grant


Unless we trade DPJ

I don't think it is a soft spot. I think it is a matter of not wanting to cut a 3rd rounder after 1 season. All the other GMs have the same problem, if it is even a problem.

If Schwartz makes the roster this year and he hasn't shown marked improvement, then I might agree. If he shows improvement in camp, then stiffens up during the season and drops everything and hasn't contributed and we don't move away from him at some point during the season, then that is a problem.

Interesting point on DPJ. As you or someone else mentioned, we probably aren't going to be able to pay both of Jones and Cooper. Depending on how some of the others fit in, I could see DPJ traded sometime during camp or before the trade deadline during the season. Depending on how the team is playing might also spark a fire sale of sorts, but we don't need to mention that even though I did..lol

I don't think it is a soft spot either. Speed is a huge asset in the NFL. You can't teach it and it can be a game changer in your scheme. Don't get me wrong, Schwartz has not been good since being here (drops namely), was regulated to the bench, and most likely will be cut at some point. But so many people here are quick to write-off players after a couple of seasons. Schwartz is going into his third season and is still 22. If AB has a soft spot at all, it's getting guys young. Now, maybe they've seen the development won't progress to the point they will keep him, but I think that is where ABs age bias comes into the mix.

j/c

So much for the idea that the FO would be comfortable with finding the 5th/6th WR from a group of 8-or-so guys. I like the Tillman pick - even if he's a bit unproven. He's a big guy. If we pick up WRs under 6'1" they better be crazy quick and tough as nails...otherwise I'd pass.

DPJ is talked about on this board like he's some highly sought-after player...when he's much more Tyler Boyd than Tee Higgins. I sure hope the FO is not making decisions at WR based on some belief that we won't be able to afford a guy like DPJ when he's a FA. I like the guy... a lot...but he's a solid #3. Not some budding #2 about to blossom into a #1. I hope he becomes that...but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree, but Schwartz is going into his 3rd season. He should have shown something last year.

If you draft a WR in the 1st 3 RDs he shouldn't need 3 years to make
Plays and contributions. The league is so pass happy and WRs are
Coming out of college READY TO MAKE PLAYS. WRs coming
Into the league are so much prepared in adjusting to the NFL.
Schwartz did nothing at Auburn to merit a 3rd RD pick.
Yeah he is fast. Blah. Fast is no good with learning the nuisances
Of the position. Schwartz isn't special at all.
He simply plays with a dress on and needs training wheels 4 years in

The Schwartz topic always seems to pop up. No one is championing him or even defending him, yet he gets talked about more than any other WR. We've had multiple threads about a guy who has done nothing. I guess folks just like to complain. <<shrug>>

The WR looks a lot better than it did at this time last year. I think it's important that we upgraded that unit because we are going to be throwing the ball more now that we have a legit QB. Our offense should evolve into looking similar to what we see across the league in regards to scheme, personnel packages, and a more complete route tree.

Hope we install separation this year. We need some of these guys to grow up to be legit proven heroes. Maybe today we trade down forMr. Irrelevant. Worked out last year as a value trade. Maybe AB hopes for a repeat.

15. we have 15 WR's


When you look at DPJ's numbers and his improvement every year... you will understand.

2020 12 catches 304 yards
2021 34 catches 597 yards
2022 61 catches 839 yards

if he continues his improvement... he's a 1,000-yard #2 WR. That's everything in the NFL.

No one has a 1k RB and 2 1k WR's with a 500 yard TE

I don't know. Numbers don't lie, but they can mislead. How much of DPJ's production was because of improvement, and how much was because of a dearth of other options (with Njoku frequently banged up) combined with teams focused on Cooper and Chubb?

And the Eagles had your last line last year. Sanders 1269 yards rushing. AJ Brown 1496 receiving. Devonta Smith 1196. Goedert 702. Just saying.

I didn't literally mean no one. I meant like... it's rare. Also, they were in the SB last year. So, there is that.

j/c

I think the WR room should now be considered pretty much complete. Tillman gives the Browns that guy who you can toss the ball up in the air to under pressure and feel confident he can win the battle in a jump ball situation. I think and have said for years now that's a dimension has been missing in the Browns WR room.

Just saw a stat on ESPN. The Browns haven't finished
In the top 10 in passing yards in 28 years

Yikes

no more

I don't disagree. My point is cutting him last year would have been premature. At this point, how does cutting him today help anything or change anything?

People can call him the last player on the camp roster. I have no problem with that. You go in to camp with what, 75-80 players? Keeping him at this point doesn't hurt anything. There is no logical reason to cut him now. Go to camp, see if things click. If not, you cut him then. Chalk it up as a missed pick and move on.

I sometimes think that posters around here think every pick we make needs to pan out and we are the only team who misses on some draft picks.

Spot on, Ballpeen. I would rather he stick for now. Might be of some use to rooks. I always prefer to trade a player for something (actually just about anything LOLetc.) as opposed to cutting him outright, and especially so after the years and but invested in him. Then there's the old chestnut that says,"Hey! You can always serve as a bad example even if you are awful."

I agree with every point you make there ^. The problem is that Schwartz was a 3rd Rd pick...and a flyer at that. It doesn't matter today where he was drafted and that's probably the only thing I'd add to your post. Cutting him right now would be stupid. However, the FO deserves criticism for taking a flyer on a guy like that with a pick like that.

In defense of usually-overzealous fans in this regard, no one talks about Richard LeCounte being a bust...he was a 5th Rd pick though. Schwartz is likely not the answer...I'm not confident that Bell will be anything near a starter...now we have Tillman - who at least has the size angle that we (FO) tend to ignore. Our scouting of WRs appears to be lacking.

Schwartz as the speed angle.

I guess my point is in the 3rd round, you aren't drafting the perfect receiver. Anybody you draft, you are banking on something.

I wouldn't even say it was a bad pick. It will be a bad pick and the FO will be criticized if they countinue to stick with a stinker pick this year, but when we picked him, there were question marks, but speed kills. It was worth the shot IMO.

I guess I have different expectations out of a draft. My feeling is if a GM gets maybe 2.5 players a draft, averaged, that turn in to decent players, my feeling is he has done a good job.

Maybe my expectations are low. It would be interesting to see some comprehensive study on GM's and draft history success by round.

I wonder how many 3rd rounders actually turn in to good NFL players? 20%?? 70%?? Then what does good mean? A starting type player or a decent special teamer? Stefanski has said that Schwartz is a pretty solid gunner for the team.


To be clear, I think Schwartz is a failure. He wasn't drafted to be a gunner. I think if he was catching around 40 balls a season, maybe 400-500 yards and several TD's, that would be somewhere in the range of success. I think he had 5 catches for maybe 60 yards. That isn't good by any measure. I get it.

j/c

I like our WR a lot - I wasn't thrilled with a WR as our first pick in this years draft but everything I have seen regarding Tillman since has been positive for a 3rd round pick. I like the Goodwin and Moore acquisitions. I think Cooper is all class and still an elite route runner and skilled at his position even if he doesn't have the freakish athletic metrics. DPJ when healthy is more than a competent #2. He's an outstanding 3rd or 4th guy if that's what he becomes. We don't have the playmakers like Cinci or Miami - but I think we have everything we need to score lots of points and pass the ball as much as we want/need & win lots of games. No idea if we will be a top 10 passing team - we don't need to be with Chubb in the backfield - but if I was a betting man I'd bet we might be. It *feels* like KS is transitioning into a more pass oriented offense. Only 4+ more months and we'll find out.

Didn't the Browns play a receiver they got out of no where, when they played some of the final five games last year.

I might think Tillman could be #3 this year, #2 next year. Potentially, potentially.
and, Woods? a healthy Woods in the future could challenge Goodwin? Bell?

Excellent
Question how many completions did deshaun have where
The ball traveled 40 yards in the air.
The point on speed is you like to use it either vertically ot running
Crossing the latter was not completed 1 time to Shwartz last year.
He completed those passes in Houston but not here
He either has to hit those passes or he will be a failure.

Woods’ injury throws a wrench into his future unfortunately