With all these WR’s on the roster how many do we keep, 6 and a KR/PR?

My prediction. Cooper, DPJ, Moore, Bell, Goodwin, Woods/Weston (1 goes to PS), and Grant as the returner

I think Grant is going to have a hard time making the team. DPJ can return punts and Ford for kickoffs. I agree that we keep 6. I'm not sure about who will be that 6th guy.

j/c,

I see the competition for WR #6 mainly between Grant and Woods (or even a rookie Draft selection) ... assuming Goodwin makes the final 53 (the quarenteed $ will shine more light on this ?) ... I can't see a scenario where Bell gets cut this season.

Good to see nobody will be handed a Job this season
Competition will bring out the best 5 or 6 on Sunday
Felton , Schwartz and Woods I think are goners

That is the point.

Competition will decide who stays and who plays.

I love having so many WR’s going into camp. Alot of competition, should make our WR room that much better.

Bottom line is the FO knew we had a problem at WR and made steps to address it. It’s now up to the coaches and players to make it work. We have an elite talent at QB, but needed to improve the WR room. At first glance, they’ve done that.

They have done as much as possible with what they've worked with. OUTSTANDING job by AB and the analytics team, imho. You know, all of these players were graded out well before FA. This Moore trade screams that the team always has his feelers on the pulse of the NFL. And even the misses didn't slow them down; they had plans A-Z all laid out.

Elijah Moore was a big addition. I feel a lot more settled about that position group. I didn’t know him hardly at all before Wednesday, lol, but I’ve been reading up on Eli and he’s a speedster who’s proven he can produce.

WE don't have the obvious weaknesses that we had when last season began. Our FO saw them and aggressively addressed them. Good job!!

I agree lampy. As a SEC fan I watched him a good bit when he was at Ole Miss. Very exciting player. He is going to thrive on the shorter horizontal routes. I expect to see some significant YAC

Name the 4th best Wr on the team now? And I would assume Cooper and Elijah Moore were in the top 3,
One more for the top 3 and then who is the 4th best Wr on the team?

Probably = Bell, my first thought, or
Woods and then Bell my 2nd thought and then
DPJ could be the 4th best but either way ..
Well
Mar@uise Goodwin, when they needed anyone who could catch, would have made a lot more sense if they didn't have Elijah Moore,

but if you look at it as a career, ten or nine years, Goodwyn hasn't been very good, only more than 3 tds a couple times if more than one,
and only more than twenty nine catches on a year once iirc. 'Taylor Gabriel could do that and couldn't wait to show him the door,... tackled at the one yd line club.

so Goodwyn could be the 4th best but you'd expect Bell or Woods to produce more than twenty nine and 3 tds if you really played them, so the thing with Schwartz is even last year they were playing that guy off the streets and he had a couple of catches instead of Schwartz.

Who can say Woods isn't the 3rd best Wr on the team if only he had more opportunities
Who can say Felton isn't?
Cooper Moore, DPJ, Bell and Woods then Grant,
pretty obvious ^ if M. Goodwyn wasn't in the picture, and Goodwyn, really didn't have more than twenty nine and three in most years of a nine or ten year career.
I think preliminary I'd guess

Cooper, Moore, DPJ, Bell, Woods and Grant, Felton as RB #4, everyone else to the practice s@uad.

Most likely traded, DPJ, ?
Most likely to add on if DPJ were traded, Schwartz, then Goodwyn, or recency bias would flip that.

Cooper Moore, Goodwyn, Bell, Woods, and Grant, with Felton as RB #4 and DPJ traded for value.
I don't say it's right or wrong
but I would say it would fit analytics' brand. They have been trying to use the media to overhype DPJ since the start of camp 2022, maybe it was 202I.

But DPJ returns kicks =can't trade him.
But Grant is supposed to be able to return better, if healthy = you can trade DPJ.
and Felton = option 2 at returner next to either Grant or DPJ.

If DPJ went for a 2nd or Ist round pick, oh boy just think of the offseason trophe the analytics group could pat itself on the back with. after drafting DPJ originally in the 6th round.

My guess is that the Cooper, Moore, Goodwin, DPJ, and Grant for 5 of the slots. Between Bell and Woods ... one will get stashed on IR at the last cut and the other is #6.

That WR room looks night and day from last year

My guess is Cooper, DPJ, Moore, Goodwin, Bell, and Woods. I would say Weston is in the mix for the 6th spot. One guy who might have a shot and hasn't been mentioned yet is Jaelon Darden.

If I remember correctly, I thought PFF posted on Twitter that Schwartz was graded above average on Special Teams. I am not subscribed to PFF to confirm. If this is correct, Ford and Schwartz could potentially be a duel threat as "gunners". Schwartz may have value.

I made these video clips of a few guys showing ALL targets and catches:

Thanks for those. It was a good football fix. One thing that really stood out was that early on, DPJ made some good catches in traffic, but he wasn't able to get any separation. This improved as the season wore on. The Schwartz video did nothing to help his case.

Thanks Turk. Good stuff.

Thanks for those...

we have 6 spots:

Cooper
DPJ
Moore
Bell
Goodwin
Whoever we draft

I think people are sleeping on Woods. Wasn't he the guy who Watson was throwing to in camp last year? He was playing good until he got hurt.

I agree, and not so much defending Woods. Weston is another guy.

My point is it is way early to say who makes the team and who doesn't. We might have some idea, and probably a good one, but in looking at 4lifes list, I might agree, but wouldn't say Goodwin and Bell are locks.

After Cooper, DPJ, and Moore, who will make the team, I hope it is wide open and performance based and not some other factor involved. Heck, even the mentioned 3 need to show up.

If I was the WR position coach, in the very first meeting with the group, my first words would be: "Welcome. Let me be clear. NOBODY in this room is a lock to make the team".

Then you go from that starting point.

Yeah, Woods could easily crack the roster. Just didnt see much of him outside of TC

The only way for a player to become good is to be given opportunity. Schwartz has been given opportunity. Two years worth, and for whatever reason just hasn't gotten it done. I wonder if a guy like Woods or Weston or someone else is given even half the opportunity Schwartz has enjoyed if one of them could prove out?

To be fair, there is also a chance some of those guys don't know the playbook and look bad in practice and it is human nature to give higher picks a longer look.

Yes, Schwartz has been given a fair opportunity, maybe more than fair. Hasn’t taken advantage of it. Man up or hit the road. Woods is a guy I noticed last season. Not a lot of production but flashed in limited playing time. But he’d have to push a couple guys off the roster.

Just a question: we get Elijah, are we sure DPJ will get a second contract with us? Has he really done enough? I’m not so sure.

Woods will have to make the team by standing out on
Special teams. I never saw anything from him last year
That made me go " wow he is special". Maybe he can play
The slot and steal reps from Bell as Bell didn't show
Alot last year. But adding Moore and Goodwin means
WRs won't be handed jobs this year like years past

I would tend to think that DPJ has done enough. Actually if you look at the stats of both Moore and DPJ in 2021 and 2022 they quite similar with DPJ actually having more total yards and ypc than Moore. DPJ had 61 receptions and 839 receiving yards in 2022 with his ypc being 13.8.

Just wanted to say....a lot of people are down on Bryant....I am not one of them...From what I saw in that video...he rarely dropped an easy pass like Njoku does...in fact most of the drops were with Brisset and the ball was at a very tough angle or poorly placed...some he coulda should a had...but notice that come the Houston Game...he didn't drop a single pass from Watson from then on out except one that was again a real tough angle...possibly a coulda shoulda...but no player is perfect...

I am happy with our TE room...Akins gives us some size in the red zone(and familiarity with Watson) possibly the one thing our TE's didn't really have last year...at least the ones that took the majority of snaps...

Forget Woods. He just ripped up his Achilles.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...95dc3854db4d5d8fc1a48cab3e5dc9&ei=10

Damn.

Woods was going to have a hard time being active on GameDay.
This isn't a loss really. His production was uninspiring.
His career might be more aligned with the XFL anyhow.
But it goes to show these kind of injuries can happen to any WR.
Can you imagine if this happened to Cooper or Moore?

Bad news on woods. I hope he recovers quickly and can return to get another chance

Sorry for Woods, but availability sure comes into play. So does "performance"=Schwartz got 2 years due to speed only, now we have SEVERAL speed guys who perform- he especially better PROVE himself or he can take his act somewhere else.....and I'm sure he'd be signed due to speed.....so what.

But with now having two seasons of NFL film on him, would Schwartz really be signed somewhere else? Not saying he wouldn't be but I'm also not so sure he would be. They've witnessed how well having him on an NFL roster has worked based strictly on his speed.

Moore is a pretty diverse receiver.

Marquise Goodwin and the return of Grant I think is the nail for Schwartz. I doubt he makes the roster.

They are proven players with great speed.

Schwartz will have to show a lot right away in camp because if he does not his days are numbered.

JMHO, Schwartz has the want to.....he just hasn't shown enough to be on "our" roster with current proven assets- I think some team without "world class speed" would give him another NFL check- I could be wrong.

PS- I think he's gone.

He might, but i basically agree.


My feeling on Schwartz is that guy has had his chance. If other guys on the roster, or even some cut guys, if given the same "chance" would have played better that Schwartz.

I guess at this point it doesn't hurt anything to take him to camp and see what happens, but he is past the point of surviving cuts because he was a top 100 pick. There comes a point where you just have to figure that you win some, you lose some. No big deal at this point. I don't blame GMs for that or hold it against them. What I do hold against them is sticking with a guy too long and cutting other players who would love the chance to show something.

We all know how it goes, someone gets discarded (schwartz) and someone else feels they can get more out of him so they pick him up... He'll get another chance or two.

That often times happens with former first rounders. Less often with former second rounders and even less often with former third rounders. And so on and so on and so on.

A certainly agree with you. Sometimes, and I would include Schwartz in that conversation, you're left scratching your head about a draft pick that is made. I along with many didn't get it then and still to this day don't get him being drafted as high as he was. But what I realize is that I certainly do not have all the resources available to me with which to make such a decision. I am not, nor do I have an expert scouting staff feeding me vital information with which to make such a decision on a draft pick. All I have is my own opinion based on the limited information I have. I believe that gives me a pretty good grasp on my limitations and it's why I will express my opinion on draft picks I certainly understand in the grand scheme of things I'm not the one making a six or seven figure figure salary to figure that out and make those calls. There's a reason for that.

So much like yourself I far more question a FO when they keep holding on to a draft pick who has shown he simply isn't going to pan out.

I am not stressed about the WR room as we stand today.

Cooper, DPJ, Moore, Bell, Goodwin, Grant with these six we can cover the field. When you add TE's Njoku, Bryant, and Akins we should have a good passing attack.

Any of the others who can claim a spot by playing well. Let competition decide.

If we draft a WR because of value with the pick. I am fine with that as well.

I feel pretty good and the WR room.

If we do Draft a rookie ... I could see us keeping 7 WRs' and only 3 RBs' ... with Kelly or another RB on the PS.

The only question mark out of those 6 you listed would be if Grant doesn't return to form as our RS.

Berry was saying Grant has been damn near sleeping at Berea.

So, the thing about receivers is you can find them in later rounds. Guys can be be hidden with low numbers because of poor qb play.

Small school guys can be found.

Much harder to find pass rushers after the second round.

j/c:

Grant was brought aboard to be our PR answer and be an appx #4 WR last season. With the kind of injury he had, it's hard to imagine he'll still be around after camp. It's a shame, because our new ST coach is going to be looking forward to eventually cementing that PR position after so many seasons of needing it.

jmho

I am pretty sure the reports on him are good.

I agree and I think that there will be some WRs' avaliable in rounds 6-7 who at the very least have one trait that can add to the mix in that room ... perhaps one with good length and is good at contested catches (DPJ type) ... or a guy who is more of a linear threat guy who you can use on go routes from the X receiver position (ala Schwartz type) ... or perhaps he has traits as a ST-RS ... or a guy who is a bit of a project with a high upside.

As much as I like Mims ... I think that with the trade for Moore and the Goodwin FA signing has pushed the need for this position in the Draft to that of a luxury [imo] at least on day 2 of the Draft is concerned.

The sad part about Schwartz, is that his problems are mostly mental. I can relate as I dealt with some of those performance anxiety issues before many...MANY....years ago. You look at this kid, especially from a players perspective, and there is so much to like. He has talent, and he works HARD. You can tell by how his teammates rally around him. They continually encourage him. I have read story after story about how the QB's and other players tried to help him and put the mistakes in the past...He is a really good kid. Players don't do that for divas or guys that just don't have it. Think about Damon Sheehy-Guisseppi (sp).....Kid worked his tail off...and when he had success...the team mobbed him.

But the NFL, in the end, is a results (and money) driven league. And so for his sake, I will pull for him and wish him well if it does not come to pass.

Feel completely the same, I'm pretty content with our WR core. I think the need for DT, DE, 3rd safety, OT, ICB, all trump WR as of now. I understand the luxury of drafting BPA, however it doesn't hold true when you still have holes. I just feel if we draft a WR-they will be buried the depth of Coop, DPJ, Moore, Goodwin, Grant and maybe even Bell. We have Darden, Stevenson, Harley, Baldwin, Schwartz...whom are all young and I'm sure coaches are confident they can develop at least one of them into a worthy depth piece. IMO I'd just rather see perhaps a Jatarvius Martin providing our safety depth and sliding down to our nickel role on defense, or a DT rotating in and playing a role versus say drafting a WR there whom will be buried depth wise.

Despite not having a pick until the 3rd round, should be nice to see whom we grab and develop. I still think we are going defense heavy, Schwartz wants a strong Dline rotation...and that will continue with another DT and DE imo.

Agreed, not only that but if you ask me his game day speed was pretty slow. Schwartz just aint there for us.

Probably so. The speed is what got him drafted and speed will keep in on other teams radars for another team or two..

He probably won't get more than a airline ticket guarantee to and from camp if needed, so it isn't going to cost a team much to give him a look. Our hope at this point is he is a late bloomer and he blooms in camp and this season.

Berry has a soft spot for Schwartz for whatever reason.
But Schwartz lacks the mental and physical toughness
To play at this level. The game is too big for him.
Let him go to the XFL and reinvent himself
But Schwartz is a prime example of why the Browns have faltered
Under Berry as GM

Things have solidified IMO:

Cooper
DPJ
Moore
Bell
Tillman
Goodwin OR Grant


Unless we trade DPJ

I don't think it is a soft spot. I think it is a matter of not wanting to cut a 3rd rounder after 1 season. All the other GMs have the same problem, if it is even a problem.

If Schwartz makes the roster this year and he hasn't shown marked improvement, then I might agree. If he shows improvement in camp, then stiffens up during the season and drops everything and hasn't contributed and we don't move away from him at some point during the season, then that is a problem.

Interesting point on DPJ. As you or someone else mentioned, we probably aren't going to be able to pay both of Jones and Cooper. Depending on how some of the others fit in, I could see DPJ traded sometime during camp or before the trade deadline during the season. Depending on how the team is playing might also spark a fire sale of sorts, but we don't need to mention that even though I did..lol

I don't think it is a soft spot either. Speed is a huge asset in the NFL. You can't teach it and it can be a game changer in your scheme. Don't get me wrong, Schwartz has not been good since being here (drops namely), was regulated to the bench, and most likely will be cut at some point. But so many people here are quick to write-off players after a couple of seasons. Schwartz is going into his third season and is still 22. If AB has a soft spot at all, it's getting guys young. Now, maybe they've seen the development won't progress to the point they will keep him, but I think that is where ABs age bias comes into the mix.

j/c

So much for the idea that the FO would be comfortable with finding the 5th/6th WR from a group of 8-or-so guys. I like the Tillman pick - even if he's a bit unproven. He's a big guy. If we pick up WRs under 6'1" they better be crazy quick and tough as nails...otherwise I'd pass.

DPJ is talked about on this board like he's some highly sought-after player...when he's much more Tyler Boyd than Tee Higgins. I sure hope the FO is not making decisions at WR based on some belief that we won't be able to afford a guy like DPJ when he's a FA. I like the guy... a lot...but he's a solid #3. Not some budding #2 about to blossom into a #1. I hope he becomes that...but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree, but Schwartz is going into his 3rd season. He should have shown something last year.

If you draft a WR in the 1st 3 RDs he shouldn't need 3 years to make
Plays and contributions. The league is so pass happy and WRs are
Coming out of college READY TO MAKE PLAYS. WRs coming
Into the league are so much prepared in adjusting to the NFL.
Schwartz did nothing at Auburn to merit a 3rd RD pick.
Yeah he is fast. Blah. Fast is no good with learning the nuisances
Of the position. Schwartz isn't special at all.
He simply plays with a dress on and needs training wheels 4 years in

The Schwartz topic always seems to pop up. No one is championing him or even defending him, yet he gets talked about more than any other WR. We've had multiple threads about a guy who has done nothing. I guess folks just like to complain. <<shrug>>

The WR looks a lot better than it did at this time last year. I think it's important that we upgraded that unit because we are going to be throwing the ball more now that we have a legit QB. Our offense should evolve into looking similar to what we see across the league in regards to scheme, personnel packages, and a more complete route tree.

Hope we install separation this year. We need some of these guys to grow up to be legit proven heroes. Maybe today we trade down forMr. Irrelevant. Worked out last year as a value trade. Maybe AB hopes for a repeat.

15. we have 15 WR's


When you look at DPJ's numbers and his improvement every year... you will understand.

2020 12 catches 304 yards
2021 34 catches 597 yards
2022 61 catches 839 yards

if he continues his improvement... he's a 1,000-yard #2 WR. That's everything in the NFL.

No one has a 1k RB and 2 1k WR's with a 500 yard TE

I don't know. Numbers don't lie, but they can mislead. How much of DPJ's production was because of improvement, and how much was because of a dearth of other options (with Njoku frequently banged up) combined with teams focused on Cooper and Chubb?

And the Eagles had your last line last year. Sanders 1269 yards rushing. AJ Brown 1496 receiving. Devonta Smith 1196. Goedert 702. Just saying.

I didn't literally mean no one. I meant like... it's rare. Also, they were in the SB last year. So, there is that.

j/c

I think the WR room should now be considered pretty much complete. Tillman gives the Browns that guy who you can toss the ball up in the air to under pressure and feel confident he can win the battle in a jump ball situation. I think and have said for years now that's a dimension has been missing in the Browns WR room.

Just saw a stat on ESPN. The Browns haven't finished
In the top 10 in passing yards in 28 years

Yikes

no more

I don't disagree. My point is cutting him last year would have been premature. At this point, how does cutting him today help anything or change anything?

People can call him the last player on the camp roster. I have no problem with that. You go in to camp with what, 75-80 players? Keeping him at this point doesn't hurt anything. There is no logical reason to cut him now. Go to camp, see if things click. If not, you cut him then. Chalk it up as a missed pick and move on.

I sometimes think that posters around here think every pick we make needs to pan out and we are the only team who misses on some draft picks.

Spot on, Ballpeen. I would rather he stick for now. Might be of some use to rooks. I always prefer to trade a player for something (actually just about anything LOLetc.) as opposed to cutting him outright, and especially so after the years and but invested in him. Then there's the old chestnut that says,"Hey! You can always serve as a bad example even if you are awful."

I agree with every point you make there ^. The problem is that Schwartz was a 3rd Rd pick...and a flyer at that. It doesn't matter today where he was drafted and that's probably the only thing I'd add to your post. Cutting him right now would be stupid. However, the FO deserves criticism for taking a flyer on a guy like that with a pick like that.

In defense of usually-overzealous fans in this regard, no one talks about Richard LeCounte being a bust...he was a 5th Rd pick though. Schwartz is likely not the answer...I'm not confident that Bell will be anything near a starter...now we have Tillman - who at least has the size angle that we (FO) tend to ignore. Our scouting of WRs appears to be lacking.

Schwartz as the speed angle.

I guess my point is in the 3rd round, you aren't drafting the perfect receiver. Anybody you draft, you are banking on something.

I wouldn't even say it was a bad pick. It will be a bad pick and the FO will be criticized if they countinue to stick with a stinker pick this year, but when we picked him, there were question marks, but speed kills. It was worth the shot IMO.

I guess I have different expectations out of a draft. My feeling is if a GM gets maybe 2.5 players a draft, averaged, that turn in to decent players, my feeling is he has done a good job.

Maybe my expectations are low. It would be interesting to see some comprehensive study on GM's and draft history success by round.

I wonder how many 3rd rounders actually turn in to good NFL players? 20%?? 70%?? Then what does good mean? A starting type player or a decent special teamer? Stefanski has said that Schwartz is a pretty solid gunner for the team.


To be clear, I think Schwartz is a failure. He wasn't drafted to be a gunner. I think if he was catching around 40 balls a season, maybe 400-500 yards and several TD's, that would be somewhere in the range of success. I think he had 5 catches for maybe 60 yards. That isn't good by any measure. I get it.

j/c

I like our WR a lot - I wasn't thrilled with a WR as our first pick in this years draft but everything I have seen regarding Tillman since has been positive for a 3rd round pick. I like the Goodwin and Moore acquisitions. I think Cooper is all class and still an elite route runner and skilled at his position even if he doesn't have the freakish athletic metrics. DPJ when healthy is more than a competent #2. He's an outstanding 3rd or 4th guy if that's what he becomes. We don't have the playmakers like Cinci or Miami - but I think we have everything we need to score lots of points and pass the ball as much as we want/need & win lots of games. No idea if we will be a top 10 passing team - we don't need to be with Chubb in the backfield - but if I was a betting man I'd bet we might be. It *feels* like KS is transitioning into a more pass oriented offense. Only 4+ more months and we'll find out.

Didn't the Browns play a receiver they got out of no where, when they played some of the final five games last year.

I might think Tillman could be #3 this year, #2 next year. Potentially, potentially.
and, Woods? a healthy Woods in the future could challenge Goodwin? Bell?

Excellent
Question how many completions did deshaun have where
The ball traveled 40 yards in the air.
The point on speed is you like to use it either vertically ot running
Crossing the latter was not completed 1 time to Shwartz last year.
He completed those passes in Houston but not here
He either has to hit those passes or he will be a failure.

Woods’ injury throws a wrench into his future unfortunately

One of the things we have to bear in mind is DW at quarterback.

Elite quarterbacks make pass catchers better. The reasons are many but you begin with leadership. Players have to respect their quarterback. You can not fool NFL players. They know talent when seen.

DW is a proven leader. He led in college and in the pros. He also has the talent that players see. They see him daily. They see how he works and know what he can do.

We have offensive talent. We have the OL to protect the passer and open holes for Chubb.

We now have talent and depth at receiver and TE.

We have the veteran WR leader in Cooper. DPJ has improved each year and has made himself a solid number two. We have added speed in Moore, and Goodwin. We have possession type receivers in Bell and Tillman. Tillman adds size and a guy who wins contested balls. Grant is a legit backup with shake.

We have Njoku and added Akins. Bryant is at worst case depth.

IMO the big add is Moore. He has loads of talent and is highly motivated. I think he will be the big addition. I went back when he was first on the radar and watched this guy. I think this guy is really good. He has the full package. He gets separation. He catches the ball. He can gain yards after the catch. He is really hard to cover. He is both quick and fast.

The offense should cook. Stefanski along with DW will create a playbook that is friendly to the talent. Plays that the QB will be in sync with and will use his strengths.

"I feel good." dada, dada, dant. as James Brown once sang.

I agree about FQB’s making their targets better. You see it all the time with Mahomes, Burrow, etc … they can make the average WRs good and the good WRs great.

Let’s hope Watson can get close to that level. He wasn’t good last season, especially with his eyes. I’m hoping it’s rust more than anything

You are right that Watson was not good last year. However, he has proven that he makes others better. I posted the stats of his WRs in Houston. Their numbers were far better w/him than when they played w/other qbs. That list includes Aaron Rodgers.

No doubt. we just have to hope he can return to that form of course

No doubt. I think the odds he will are far greater than the odds are he won't, so we just have to rely on that.

I've been underrating Goodwin.
maybe, just maybe, DPJ will have trouble getting playing time.
Maybe,
Cooper,
Goodwin,
Moore,
and Tillman and DPJ fighting for #4. ...

and,
I hadn't seen much of the new Tight end, Heeee, may be pretty good. Really good.
It may end up a shame what this team could do with real offensive coaching.

Isn't it interesting there is not a single picture of Schwartz and no one's talking about his speed....or ability....I think the team has moved on....unless he lights it up in pre-season.....GO Browns!!!

All rookies have a window of opportunity. For some it might be as long as a mini camp. For others it might be a few years, but if they don't start to meet expectations, the window closes.

Schwartz's window is about shut.

My guess is that no one is talking about his speed because we now have Moore and Goodwin. Speed is no longer a differentiator for Schwartz, which is about the only thing he brought to the table.

Agree with Peen, his window is about shut.

Marquise Goodwin is beginning his tenth year in the NFL.

Many players never see ten years in the NFL.

He has never been a high production guy.

His best year was 2017. He had 56 receptions and 962 yds.

I don't expect him to put up big numbers. At the same time he could make key big plays. He has world class speed. He can catch the ball.

He will get some of those deep shots. Hopefully they will be important .

Schwartz has not participated in any OTA activities because he has been sidelined with an undisclosed injury.

Schwartz's future here isn't very bright. Truthfully, I can't even see him being signed by anyone else

Schwartz might be the worst 3rd RD draft pick ever in Browns
History. Berry swung and missed big time on him.
Schwartz will be out of football by the end of the year
There are better practice squad WRs in the NFL
Luckily in Berry's case he was able to acquire Moore
And Goodwin.
But Berry's ability to judge drafted players is still very debatable

Agreed. He has contributed Zero since he has been here.

Well, he single-handled got rid of Baker Mayfield. So, that was a contribution.

Totally agree with you. Getting rid of Baker cannot be over stated ever.

Travis Wilson was worse. He even proclaimed he was the best WR in the draft class that year. Had two career receptions for 32 yards.

Wow, I remember falling for the hype

That's a 16.o yard per catch average for a career. Pretty impressive if you look at it that way.

I think if one were to compare Berry's drafting v other GM's it would stack up as good as most.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/5/28/23740440/nfl-draft-browns-reviews-andrew-berry

Agreed. I've said this before I think Andrew Berry is very capable and smart and we're fortunate to have him.

All NFL GM's have their hits and misses. Trying to base how well or how poorly a GM has done is extremely subjective and the article Peen posted the link to uses a very poor barometer. Many lower tier players get second NFL contracts. The quality and status of those players can vary greatly. So just trying to use "players who get a second contract" as your guide isn't a very good gauge.

That's not saying I'm trying to undermine Berry. But as you can see form the list of players in the article, Newsome is the only top contributor on the team. You could certainly add Wills since he plays every down but he's not a highly rated OT. The others listed aren't highly touted at their positions. The quality of those players at their respected positions means quite a bit in regards to success. You can't actually compare marginal players who earned a second contract to highly regarded players who have earned a second contract unless you're trying to overvalue something that isn't actually comparable.

I don't consider Berry poor at drafting players but he seems to be far better at finding FA's of value and making solid trades than having any major draft prowess.

The thing I like about Berry is he is very calm, collected, and patient. His moves make good sense even if they don't work out. Granted because of the Watson Move we really haven't seen how he works the earlier rounds as much...But the mark of a good GM is the talent he can get from rounds 4-7. And while there are definitely times where "you" might want someone at a certain spot...or that a team gets a better pick in that range. I think Berry does a very good job of picking players that not only have potential, but also fit what the Browns are looking for. Too often we look at a great player and we don't extrapolate how he fits in with the Browns. He doesn't lean too much to either side of BPA or Need. I guess what I am saying is I come away from our drafts without much head scratching or much controversy.

If the Browns want to close the gap on the Bengals
Then it's imperative Berry finds draft picks that are difference maker
Game changers impact players etc etc.
It's not good enough to simply draft a starter anymore.
He has to be a playmaker.
Coming into 2023 pre draft name one offensive player that touches
The ball that Berry has drafted that you can call a playmaker.
How about on the defensive side?
All the other AFC North teams find difference makers even
In the mid rds but Berry swings and misses.

Drafting is hard. But that's a very rose tinted perspective of the Browns drafts under Berry. I think he's done very well with trades and FA signings... Drafts are much more questionable. Jmo

Grading Berry is fair....but don't forget our sad history- Gordon, Manziel, Green, Weeden, Quinn, Gilbert, and beat goes on. Too many didn't have even DECENT background checks done- Manziel and Gilbert for sure. Go Browns!!!

DPJ (5th Rounder) >>> Schwartz (3rd Rounder).

It happens, there are hits and misses, but I think Berry is doing a reasonable job.

I am pretty sure it was talking about players who got an extension or 2nd contract with the team that drafted them or first signed them.


Yep


Copied from supplied link.

Judging the performance of the Browns draft team will depend upon the teams performance in 2023. If the Browns win enough games to qualify for the playoffs, most will overlook the past performances of Andrew Berry's draft team.

Ultimately, the Browns 2023 season will depend on the ability of THE COACHING STAFF to mold the team into A WINNER. The Browns have decent talent across the board and management identified the weakest areas on the coaching staff and made the necessary changes.

Winning takes care of everything...

That's exactly what I was talking about as well. What your article did not touch upon was the difference in signing role players to a second contract verses signing impact players to a second contract. My contention is simply this, when you break everything down to who gets a second contract you are omitting the actual value of those players. Signing marginal players to a second contract is not signing an impact player to a second contract. What you're doing is pointing out any player that is good enough not to be cut. It's far too general of a conclusion to have any real meaning.

It's also VERY dependent on how much talent you have on your team and most certainly within a unit on that team. A player who may get re-signed by a team with lesser talent at a position of weakness may have never been considered for a second contract by a more talented team where that same position is a strength.

Who was throwing to him? Travis Wilson we're talking about.

Our WR group ISN'T rated very high---who cares? Bottomline, production counts!!! Berry as GM, he bet the farm on D. Watson---if I was owner- GM, HC, DC---it all goes out the door if they don't produce THIS YEAR. You don't give up all that draft capital and have a down year with all the pieces in place. Players play and managers should be held accountable if it flops. Time will tell.

I think it will.

Haslam has spent the money and has been patient. You can't ask for more than that. He and the fans are expecting wins.

I am not one who is going to say a deep playoff run is the be all, end all, but 7-8 wins isn't going to cut it either. I think my expectation is 10-11 wins. If we do that, making the playoffs or not, 10-11 wins is the threshold. If we win 10-11 games, nobody should lose their job.

That is why we need to win early and against AFC teams. We have to get the tie breakers on our side.

I think you have described realistic expectations. What Berry has an uncanny knack for is finding players that fit without overpaying for them. An example of that is Moore. I think Moore was in a situation where he did not have an ample opportunity to showcase his talent and the hope is that situation will change with having watson as his QB. I'm not one for trying to predict the future but if the current strategy of investing in the passing game with having signed watson as the QB, I think Moore will turn out to be a great trade.

I see Moore as a young Landry who is faster and stronger--Moore is shorter, but I don't see that as an issue. I see him in slot most, but busting long ones also. He could be scary good.

That is why we need to win early and against AFC teams. We have to get the tie breakers on our side.

... Coach Kevin hasn't done well with that in the past. And the NFL seems biased to make any outcome happen that hurts the Browns, or Ohio, and the underworld props up the steelers every year too.

and the Browns were bad in September, of 2022,, again,
it took a field goal to beat the only opener, against Carolina, in the last @uarter century,
and they spend ninety percent of their weeks in 4th place in the div.

I think the coach and owner are addicted to making improvements which no matter how pretty might always = a coating of new paint,
fresh wet paint every year,
and
always last place so maybe old paint wins.

by that I mean, maybe, a team that doesn't make as many personel improvements
but thenward would know it's own team abilities better, be more familiar with itself as a group and a team,
which would allow it to do 2 percent of things, b/c it's familiar,
and that then would LOOK like better coaching

but it would just be old paint, but if old paint always wins...... "can't beat em, join em"

The Browns are trying new paint again.
new DC, new paint,
bye bye to Hunt and Clowney ... new paint
4+ new DL, new paint
WR, wholesale upgrade, new paint,
the plan at safety changes more or less often than the plan at @uarterback? ...
a plan at @uarterback that changes at I8 month intervals... ... until it doesn't it's still a mostly true statement.

and, one of these years it is going to work, Yay.

stay the course, don't change horses mid stream.

A fast Brennan.

We'll see. I think he will be way better than Brennan, and that isn't a knock on Brian. One of my favorite Browns players. Moore has the ability to create yardage which Brian didn't.

Brian had great hands and the ability to get an early step. His main benefit was Bernie. Bernie couldn't throw it all that far. Bernie had the ability to read coverages and toss it up there while his receivers had that step. Brennan wasn't catching balls 50 yards down field most of the time. He was catching them 30 yards down field. Bernie saw the step with no over the top coverage and tossed it up when Brennan was 10 yards down field. If there was over the top, Bernie might have been the best ever at looking in one direction and throwing another, to look off defenders. Kind of freakish to be honest.


It was a beautiful relationship.

Agree with what you said; Brian was one of my favorites, and Bernie made some clutch magic with him. I said so little, let me define a bit more (Moore). Moore can do extra things that Brennan couldn't match. I do expect Mootre's production to be higher output, mostly because of what you pointed out. But the single thing that I was most thinking about and what I loved about Brennan was his ability to move the sticks and sustain drives. More downs, possession time, ball control, all solid elements in winning with offense. Moore should score more, I would think.

I want to keep an eye on Mike Harley +, I think he's on an upswing and, in spite of room on the roster
Harley could end up doing good things for the Browns coming up, ... and I'm looking forward to it.

Keep, / practice s@uad, / or trade, the entire Wr room, player by player, starting at the bottom, everybody has personal preferences on who to keep. Harley is growing on me, he looks the part, he could be a good contributor.
Every team needs contributors.

I like Harley. I like several of our young guys.

I think the last position or two in that room are going to be very competitive. I wouldn't rule anybody out at this point and can only say 2-3 of them are "locks", so it should be a good camp. We should have a pretty good receivers on the practice squad if we can get them there and keep them there.

I heard the purple team had five former first round picks at wide receiver and it had not been done before,
then, I heard it was with the signing of La@uan Treadwell, and the final paragraph
told me enough about Treadwell who was drafted by the Vikings in 20I6.

Treadwell is joining his seventh NFL team. He has 110 career catches for 1,226 yards and five touchdowns

so they are rolling with
OBJ
Nelson Agholor
Rashad Bateman
rookie Xay Flowers and
La@uan Treadwell as their five first round Wr's, tuff stuff no doubt,
Tough, stuff, no, doubt.

but they still don't look as respectable as the bengals top 3 to hurt a defense in my opinion.

My thoughts how it stands right now assuming we only keep 3 rb’s, 3 te’s:

1. Cooper
2. Moore
3. DPJ
4. Tillman
5. Bell
6. Watson
7. Grant

I'd ditch Grant. Watkins has earned it.

1. Cooper
2. Moore
3. DPJ
4. Tillman
5. Bell
6. Watkins - dont know why I typed Watson
7. Grant

Grant makes this team if he is healthy. We are desperate for a pro bowl caliber returner.

health is his issue, and he's not been available really at all. I agree about needing a returner, but him being hurt doesn't help us there either

The way I understand it is they are just ramping him up for the opener with Takitaki and Walker. He has been practicing

Yep. From all I have read, I will be more surprised if they release Grant than keep him as part of the 53 man roster.

Personally, if it came down to it, I'd eighty-six Bell before Grant in order to keep Watkins.

I agree that Watkins is a keeper.

Cooper, DPJ, Watkins, Tillman, Bell should be locks, with one other spot up for grabs. Really liking Tillman, my new favourite receiver.

Edit: forgot about Moore. He’s another lock. So then what? Cut Bell? Sneak someone onto the PS? Go with seven receivers which is possible but that’s a lot of WRs on the 53?
I guess we’ll wait and see who’s healthy nearing cut down day.

I definitely would keep Watkins over Bell too

The one thing I noticed about Tillman when he was at Tennessee which seems to be proving itself true in the NFL to this point, not only is he one of those larger, more physical WR's who you can count on to get the contested catch, but for his size he runs good routes and seems to have a knack for finding that soft spot in the coverage to get open off of those routes.

If you still have a chance to see it, it showed itself to be evident in the game against the Eagles. There was one catch he made on the left of the field where there was one defender to his left, one to his right and one behind him. Yet he found the spot between them all where he would still be open and made that catch. We also saw his physical side in the same game. That's a very valuable combination to have in a WR. I NEVER thought he would still be on the board when the Browns pick came up in the third round.

I think the idea of keeping seven WR's sounds odd to Browns fans because ever since 1999 this team has not had what I think will be such a pass heavy offense. I believe they may very well keep seven WR's on the active roster. This is an unusual set of circumstances for the Browns as a team. Suddenly there's so much talent at the WR position that they have WR's they can't afford to put many of them on the practice squad because other teams will scoop them up and they will need them because with so many plays using as much as four WR sets the risk of increased injuries among your WR's increases.

It should be, \
Cooper
Moore
Schwartz
DPJ
Goodwin if healthy
Tillman
then Bell
then Watkins

But just 4 weeks ago, J. Darden was allegedly the next big thing, better than Bell and the next returner.
and Woods II was probably between Goodwin and Tillman if healthy, or Tillman and Bell,
And
If D Baldwin didn't hurt his hamstring, then maybe Watkins wouldn't have been on the field to make whatever catches in pre season.

If you keep seven, and place Goodwin, Darden, and Baldwin, with an injury designation, and Woods II is already on IR. then Grant would clear waivers b/c he hasn't been in a game in such a while,
and Felton can stay in the Rb room, and
Felton, DPJ, and Schwartz would be your returners
^ for opening day, then, in 4 to + weeks there might be some rotating.

then the waivers beyond Grant, would be Harley, Jaeen? and other ??'s

I wouldn't be surprised if Cooper, Moore, Schwartz, D.P.J, Tillman, Bell, and Watkins, are the seven that would make the fifty three, on opening day, as hard as that may be to fathom, .. and I think it could be the most right way to keep all eleven, at least for a while.

I think Cedric Tillmans' strength of running himself into open space, .. getting open,
is at the same time his weakness of/because,
in one instance he may do it, and then in another instance you may see him struggle badly against it.

although, and it sounds dumb, but although getting a contested catch is one of the best things he does.......against weak, or not there, or out of position defenders..... and not just the contested catch but getting off the line of scrimmage and getting open away from the coverage,...is one of the best things he does....against lesser, or not there, or out of position defenders

it's all ALSO they are each one of the worst 3 things he does against tuff, and right there, and in position good defenders, so much that even if it is what he is best at, it is what he needs to work on the most.

Are any of the Browns Wrs. really any good or are a lot of them just 'almost, almost good' sometimes,

Beyond the top 2? maybe 2, there is a lot of average and inconsistent play especially when the regular season starts.

DPJ might have had a memorable play, highlight reel, in 202I, but it was 2 plays a month, and there are 4 games, and he is one of your top 3 or better receivers?

I think since the current coach group, got the offense:
they have struggled to get the ball to any one eligible receiver more than five times a game consistently , even when it included Ob Jr.
...
Until Amari came along. ? Ok, until Amari came along, maybe last year.

I think you may need to see more of Tillman. He displayed both of those qualities against CB's that are starters in the NFL in that last preseason game. I watched him play at Tennessee.

DPJ amassed 61 receptions for 839 yards in 2022.

I would venture to guess that on most NFL teams that would rate you in their top 3 WR's. Especially if they had a back-up QB starting 11 of their 17 games.

I'd take a 5rder and a ham sandwich for Schwartz- ALL he has is speed, he does not run good routes, he can't catch, he fumbles- the FO and everyone else loves speed---cut him and develop other players- he should be TOAST.

You could probably get the ham sandwich

the ham sandwich might be a deal-breaker.

Don't bring Peyton Hillis into this.

Schwartz is garbage; not strong enough, awful route runner, probably struggle in the CFL. Watkins deserves to make the roster.

Glad to be here all! Fan for over 20 years now from NC, favorite all time player is Bob Golic(No never saw him play in person, but have met him before and watched a lot of highlights, top DT).Favorite one actually seen in person is Timmy C. Also a teacher by trade.

Thanks.

Welcome! We've all been waiting patiently for Schwartz to show us something, it hasn't happened. I have serious doubts that he'll be in "the room" when the season starts.

Weird thing is, though that Schwarts is a pretty darn good gunner on special teams.

Only way making this or any other team is to be on special teams tbh. I'm not a seer by any means, but I really do not think he will ever be a productive WR in this league, dude just doesn't have the intangibles. But yes how this organization does things sometimes, I would not be stunned if he made the team over someone like Watkins, I really wouldn't.

I think we’ll keep Watkins over Schwartz

I actually think so too.

Elijah Moore fills the specialty role that Schwartz had last year, and to a higher effect. Grant will make the team as a specialist/returner. It would be hard to keep both Schwartz and Grant active on gameday.

I think that Watkins has a higher upside than Schwartz as a reciever, and I think that will make the difference.

I hope so.

Potential is a fleeting thing. You can hold on to that description for a couple of seasons. After that, you are either good, or not.

Watkins has potential.

Here is how I see the Browns depth chart right now before cut down day.

X - Amari Cooper - Cedrick Tillman
Y - Elijah Moore - Jakeem Grant (KR)
Z - Donovan Peoples Jones (PR) - Marquis Goodwin

Here are the questions the front office has to ask do they keep 6? Or 7? If 7 Austin Watkins or David Bell? Then if they keep 7 what position gets shorted a roster spot?

Did Cedrick Tillman show enough to supplant Donovan Peoples Jones the teams #2. If so maybe they could trade Jones for another asset or pick and open a spot for Watkins or Bell.

Can anyone else on the roster be a kick returner and if so does Watkins or Bell provide more value than Grant?

Long term (next year or 2) Cooper and Goodwin probably won't be on the roster. Does the front office see long term value in either Watkins or Bell that may keep them around to continue to develop by keeping 7 and cutting Grant.

I do not know where the front office will go but here is what I am hoping for.

X - Amari Cooper - Cedrick Tillman
Y - Elijah Moore - Austin Watkins
Z - Donovan Peoples Jones - Marquis Goodwin - David Bell

Best thing about WR room now is we have NO SLUGS- All catch the ball, most run good to great routes, and only know" problem" is blood clots- real serious for the player, yet, team wise we have speed backups- I see no weaknesses- speed, size, hands, routes- it is all there. PLUS, our TEs cause problems-.....Nick Chub with fewer bodies in box- dang, I'd hate to plan against us.....GO Browns!!!