DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mass Shootings Continued..

It is crazy that you site isolated examples verses the mountain of evidence to the contrary. I guess you must have missed the barricades being knocked down injuring all of those officers outside the Capital in the rush to get to the capital doors? Or the breaking of windows that people crawled through to get inside? Or maybe you missed the officers head being crushed in the door? You certainly must have missed a lot. Or maybe it's the over 1000 convictions since reached by juries you missed? Nah, you didn't miss it. You're just being purposefully obtuse.

Fate, you're being unreasonable- 1 or 6 or 50 officers of Capital Police let folks in.....there were over 1200 Capital Police involved- ya think some might have been on Red side/ or wanted to save their butts- don't get hurt- let the terrorists in. Jan 6 was a completely unique occurance for our Republic----NEVER had a sitting President attempted to overthrow the election/prevent Pence and Congress from doing what they should---Patriots/ NOT urging HANG MIKE PENCE--our then Vice President. Those folks were just law abiding citizens----WRONG. And I'm sure you get your news from Truth Social---the "New" Gospel.

So you just call out the people who call out the people, as a public service? This is all getting very confusing...

YES. I said they were law abiding citizens.

Try and keep up. Err, never mind -- please don't. (And no, I get all my news from the DT Comedy Club )

Is your beef the fact that officers who are on camera let the protesters in and they have not been charged? Or are you saying because there is footage of officers letting in protesters etc, that the portrayal of Jan 6th as violent is misleading and false? Or something else?

Needed. Allowing either side to paint a one sided narrative without any other input or showing both sides isn't a debate or a discussion. Often times things aren't so much black and white as they are shades of gray. But I do understand how easily some people can become confused.

This is seriously messed up. A new level of wtf is this coming to.
A bill going through the house in Texas would require bleeding control stations in schools and require kids as young as THIRD graders to be trained in trauma care including installing tourniquets approved for use by the armed forces of the US, chest seals, compression bandages and bleeding control bandages to limit blood loss during a traumatic event. The link to the whole bill is below.


(4) require the district or charter school to annually
offer instruction on the use of a bleeding control station from a
school resource officer or other appropriate district or school
personnel who has received the training under Subdivision (3) to
students enrolled at the campus in grade three [seven] or higher.
(d) A bleeding control station required under this section
must contain all of the following required supplies in quantities
determined appropriate by the superintendent of the district or the
director of the school:
(1) tourniquets approved for use in battlefield trauma
care by the armed forces of the United States;
(2) chest seals;
(3) compression bandages;
(4) bleeding control bandages;
(5) space emergency blankets;
(6) latex-free gloves;
(7) markers;
(8) scissors; [and]
(9) instructional documents developed by the American
College of Surgeons or the United States Department of Homeland
Security detailing methods to prevent blood loss following a
traumatic event; and


https://legiscan.com/TX/text/HB1147/id/2621368

It seems Serbia is learning how to commit gun violence from the United States but they still have a long way to go.....

Serbia’s Vucic promises justice after two mass shootings in days

At least 17 people, including eight children, killed in separate tragedies – a school shooting and drive-by attack.

Two mass shootings in two days in Serbia, where such tragedies are rare, have sent the country and surrounding Balkan region into a state of shock.

Late on Thursday, at least eight people were killed and 14 wounded after a 21-year-old suspect in a moving car opened fire on passers-by in a town south of Belgrade.

A day earlier, a 13-year-old suspect carried out an attack that officials say he had planned for months, killing eight of his schoolmates and a security guard.

On Friday, waking up to the news of the drive-by attack, Serbia entered an official three-day mourning period to pay tribute to Wednesday’s child victims.

“There will be justice. These monsters will never see the light of the day, neither the little monster nor the little older monster,” President Aleksandar Vucic said, as he deplored Thursday’s “terrorist attack” and proposed tough new gun controls.

In a sombre national address, President Vucic, wearing a dark suit, said the gunman had been wearing a T-shirt with neo-Nazi symbols.

He gave no further details about the shootings.

Vucic proposed a moratorium on gun permits regardless of weapon type, in what he called a “practical disarmament” of Serbia that would also include more frequent medical and psychological checks of gun owners.

The government would also hire 1,200 new police officers to improve security in schools, he said.

Vucic added that he had proposed the reintroduction of the death penalty but said the government was against such a step.

In Serbia, the president is largely a ceremonial figure but Vucic wields considerable power as he also heads the ruling party.

Deadly drive-by attack

Thursday’s shooting took place near Mladenovac, a town 50km (30 miles) south of the capital Belgrade.

The state-run RTS television said the suspected gunman first opened fire at a schoolyard in the village of Dubona and killed a police officer and his sister, along with others in the area.

He then moved on to the nearby villages of Mali Orasje and Sepsin, according to RTS.

“We heard gunshots in the evening, but I thought it was fireworks, children fooling around. It did not even occur to me that something like this could happen,” Zvonko Mladenovic, a Dubona resident, told the AFP news agency.

The suspect was on the run for hours before police arrested him early Friday, RTS reported.

The police said the man had been arrested near the central city of Kragujevac and about 90km (56 miles) from the scene of the attacks.

According to RTS, the suspect was arrested at the home of a relative and was in possession of four hand grenades and a large number of illegal weapons and ammunition.

Serbian officials including Vucic and Interior Minister Bratislav Gasic have cast the shooting as “a terrorist act”.

Al Jazeera’s Bojana Stojanovic, reporting near Mladenovac, said the heavy police presence eased after the suspect was arrested.

“People felt relief after news of the arrest,” she said.

“We are all in a state of shock, people have still not captured their emotions after the school tragedy.

“Everyone is a bit more silent than they were. The loudest thing we can hear is shock. These things never happened in Serbia before, not in this measure.”
State of mourning

In the shooting rampage at the Vladislav Ribnikar primary school in central Belgrade, the 13-year-old suspect used his father’s guns.

One of the victims, a child, was a French citizen, France’s foreign ministry said.

Earlier on Thursday, dozens of students, many wearing black, paid their respects.

People cried and hugged outside the school, still cordoned off by police, as they stood in front of heaps of flowers, small teddy bears and footballs.

The Balkans is among the top regions in Europe in the number of guns per capita and Serbia is awash with weapons left over from the wars of the 1990s.

Still, the country has strict gun laws and mass shootings are rare – the last was in 2013 when a war veteran killed 13 people in a central Serbian village.

Authorities on Thursday moved to further tighten gun control and police urged citizens to lock up their weapons and keep them away from children.

Police have said the teenage attacker planned Wednesday’s attack for a month, drawing sketches of classrooms at the school and compiling lists of the children he planned to kill.

One girl who was shot in the head remains in a life-threatening condition, while a boy is in serious condition with spinal injuries, doctors said on Thursday.

The school shooting suspect has not given any motive for his actions.

Experts have repeatedly warned of the dangers posed by the number of weapons in a highly-divided country like Serbia, where convicted war criminals are glorified and violence against minority groups often goes unpunished.

They add there is also a risk from decades of instability stemming from the conflicts of the 1990s as well as ongoing economic hardship.

“We have had too much violence for too long,” psychologist Zarko Trebjesanin told N1 television. “Children copy models. We need to eliminate negative models … and create a different system of values.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...-shooting-day-after-deadly-school-attack

But they have a lot of catching up to do if they want to compete with the greatness of the U.S. in terms of gun deaths per capita.....

Serbia has a gun homicide rate of 0.3 per 100,000.

https://knoema.com/atlas/Serbia/Homicides-by-firearm-rate

While the U.S. has a gun homicide rate of 6.7 per 100,000.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

U.S.A.! U.S.A.!

What's so funny? Don't others challenge points made by the left or is your memory suddenly selective? You're trying too hard and not being very effective as a result. I welcome challenges from all sides. Without it there would be no debate or discussion. Can you tell me what a good a political forum is without discussion or debate from both sides? Yet it seems you would rather try to undermine people that challenge things through debate. It's not that clever and rather transparent.

wow, that went in a direction that was never expected.

The topic is Mass Shootings... not at all related to Jan 6th.

Just more distractions.

Where did they come from, Pit??

Oh yeah, Daman said they should have all been shot with AR15s... I guess mass shootings are okay as long as it's evil GOPers being shot, right? And what kind of thread can go five posts without a mention of Trump or J6?

Actually it was brought up well before that. But it was Damon who brought Jan. 6th into the discussion. And then of course came the far right conspiracy aspect of it.

Some of us were alive to see what went down after the Floyd murder. We also recognized how the media covered it and had the mostly peaceful protests shoved down our throats despite factual evidence to the contrary. Thus, I am not here to discuss this topic w/guys like Daman, 888, OCD, and Pit. I'm here to state my thoughts on the situation. Those folks have proved to be unworthy of having an honest conversation with.

I'm going to throw a personal opinion out there for others who may read the board [Bots included...LOL] and don't always respond to the madness that goes on in this forum. I think a huge opportunity was lost for Black America in the aftermath of the George Floyd murder. And yes, it was murder. I was the first one to say it on this board. He was murdered. I think that grotesque event got the attention of everyone. The time was ripe for tons and tons of white Americans to come around and see the Black's plight and look upon them more favorably.

The call should have been to unite. Instead, the message reeked of more diversity. Riots, looting, attacks on innocent people just because they were white, harassment, entitlement, etc turned a lot of folks off. For me...and many others.....seeing the fires while hearing chants of "Burn it Down" ringing in the air was beyond off-putting. Seeing small business owners having their places destroyed by "peaceful protesters" to the point that they could never reopen their doors was deflating. BLM making outrageous demands of reparation, defunding the police, making it illegal to pull over a black person, etc actually made me see things differently. I think most people know how hard I fought for black lives ever since I've been here.

It was an opportunity missed to bridge the divide and help us come closer to uniting.

Similarly, I really thought Covid would unite the country. Much like 911 did. I thought folks would come together to fight that dreaded disease. Instead, it became a political tennis match where both sides blamed the others. I saw the Right foolishly refusing to wear masks and crying about their rights and freedom of choice. I saw the Left demanding that we Social Distance and wear masks while attending protests in the thousands and not wearing masks. The image actually makes me chuckle, but it was no laughing matter.

I think we had two golden opportunities to unite as a country and too many of us allowed our own selfish interests and pride get in the way of true progress. The result is that we are now more divided than ever. I probably don't have a whole lot of time left to watch this unfold, but I think the rise of division is going to continue to harm this country and God only knows what the consequences may be?

One would think that a country that had a Civil War and lost more citizens than in any other war would have learned their lesson.

Yeah, admitting the fact that well over 90% of those protests over that summer were peaceful isn't something you wish to discuss. You only wish to have discussions with those, who like yourself wish to ignore over 90% that were peaceful while concentrating on the less than 10% that weren't. AKA- confirmation bias.

You are right that Floydd was murdered. Just like so many before him. The black community figured out that holding hands and singing Kumbaya did nothing to stop it or even slow it down. Most every major social change has been brought about through protest and Civil unrest dating all the way back to the Boston Tea Party. And now suddenly certain people think that's a bad thing.

How do you expect people to unite when we have people such as yourself who even refuse to admit that over 90% of those protests were peaceful? When you still have people trying to rewrite history and refusing to teach much of our own history, calling for people to unify is a hollow, one sided topic for some.

Pretty sure these people were not LET in. At that point, I would start shooting.

It's not only that millions protested peacefully - it is that overwhelmingly people across the spectrum have agreed that the rioters and looters should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

You are getting dragged into a situation that is like gas lighting. No sane person, no non extremist from the fringe, said the violence and looting was acceptable - yet you are having to discuss the topic as if somehow you did. BLM violence and equating support for BLM and tying it to and trying to undermine opinions on Jan 6th events is an entirely fake narrative.

Well when one thinks about it, there are a lot of people who are strong proponents of stand your ground laws. And they do seem to be the one's that appear so objectionable to such comments. I don't agree they should have been shot myself because they weren't breaking any laws that the punishment in a court of law calls for the death penalty. Just making an observation.

So, a member of the left brings up Jan. 6 in a thread about Mass Shootings. He goes on to say that there are ways to protest and ways not to. He then claims that the "thugs" in the Jan. 6th incident should have been shot and killed. When people respond to that and point out the idiocy of those comments and also say they don't even want to discuss it w/certain individuals, other members of the left champion protest and civil unrest and another says that others are gaslighting and they are being dragged into this conversation.

The wild, whacky world of the Left is on full display.

Yes, you nailed it. Not. But that's expected from someone who saw one 10 second clip of video from Jan 6th and then knew that events from that day were not a big deal.

As for wild and Whacky Left - glad to see you continue not to be divisive, label and use names or insults. Or maybe it was a compliment? Or maybe when YOU say those types of things it's okay because it's just true?

j/c:

Thinking about the 90% of the protests were peaceful for a moment. First of all, anyone w/a brain does not believe that. The media coverage was biased. Some for the Right. Some for the Left. There are just a lot more on the left than the right. I also am positive that the video I posted earlier of all those people looting a Walmart was not considered part of the protests. Yet, they were initiated by the murder of George Floyd. There were countless examples of such crimes. My own daughter and son-in-law were chased by a group of blacks who were already beating the crap out of one solitary white man in downtown Columbia. Luckily, they both got away. Those incidents were never reported and are not factored into the 90 percent figure.

I also want people to think about this for a moment. Take a look at your own neighborhood. Our particular neighborhood consists of about 25-30 homes. There is one way in and one way out. If one out of every 10 people who live in our community began committing crimes such as attacking other residents, robbing the homes in the neighborhood, and setting fires to some of the homes, etc...........how much different would our neighborhood look?

I maintain that the reaction to the Floyd murder was a mistake. It was a time for America to come together. Instead, the divide has only widened.

Now, I said all of that w/out mentioning one other poster. No character attacks. No insults. Just offering my opinion on the matter.

The truth is much more nuanced that that. But that'd only be something to pursue if you were interested in truth and facts.

As has been discussed and shown - the right wing media's attempt to compare and tie the BLM rioting somehow to the Jan 6th narrative is false. But moving on from that:

The BLM protests were peaceful with estimates between 15-26 million people taking part.

The rioting, looting and violence that was conducted by criminals using the protests as a means to opportunity to commit their crimes. As has been discussed - essentially every one I know condemned the violence and looting. It's actually something I think people agree on - but somehow that is being twisted. The problem comes because some people can't separate the conduct of the criminals from the peaceful protests and want to insist that somehow they are connected.

Statistically research showed 93% of the events - were peaceful. That means no violence or looting occurred at an event. That's factual. Debate it all you want, but find a credible source to demonstrate it rather than "feelings". Of the other 7% of events - the protests were peaceful - and then at night looting, vandalism and violence took place. The number of people involved in peaceful protest - up to 26 million. The number of people involved in looting, vandalism and violence is not 7% of that number. It's not 7 out of 100 protesters committed crimes. And the bottom line is whether the criminals represented 0.01% or 0.5% or something in between - they were condemned and labelled as criminals that should be prosecuted.

You only have to examine the actual people being arrested and committing the violence and looting to know they were not part of the legitimate protests - not only in comparison to the large number of peaceful protesters were the bad actors a small % - those arrested were not mostly extremists or leftists, they were simply opportunist criminals.... And the next layer is the proven fact that right wing groups tried to infiltrate and inflame violence. Even Trump's own spokesperson acknowledged and commented on this. Various articles posted below....

So yes - much more depth and nuance. But only if someone wants to have some concept of the truth.

There is a very long and in depth review of events and numbers and statistics on factually reported events here:

https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/de...nce-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/


Reports on those arrested and the actions of Boogaloo and other right wing groups, including comments from Trump's security chief here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...st-violence-not-extremists-idUKKBN23A1LQ
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ists-in-u-s-urban-violence-idUSKBN26031F
https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...justice-7edf9027af1878283f3818d96c54f748
https://apnews.com/article/violence...utbreak-32bc90566697388645f01675359dcad1

I'm not sure there is an explanation that would satisfy any of those asking those questions. We have a party on the Right that simply stonewalls all discussion of this.

It's 93%... get with the program. All you have to do is Google and you will get pages and pages of news sources parroting the story.

The left clings to it like a badge of honor. I found the actual source of the "study" a while ago.

https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/de...nce-in-america-new-data-for-summer-2020/

You can tell how badly it's biased when it says things like "even in urban areas like Portland, violent demonstrations were confined to 'specific blocks'". Riggghht... that's because armed activists seized three blocks of the city, barricaded themselves, put up ACAB signs and warned the "pigs" to stay out. The city brought them food and coffee as they occupied the space for two months.

It also includes any sanctioned "moment of silence" as a peaceful demonstration.

So according to them:

Peaceful protests are reported in over 2,400 distinct locations around the country. Violent demonstrations, meanwhile, have been limited to fewer than 220 locations.

So there you have it. There were only 220 violent protests resulting in billions of dollars in damage. Once you see the scope of all the demonstrations, this is really no big deal! Please quit acting like it matters!

You are trying to apply yesterdays rule to today. You have your choice of the red prism, or blue prism, however the white prism of clarity can only be fond by listening to Dark Side of the Moon.

The world changed and there is no going back. Toto, I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore.

It's becoming a pattern - instead of commenting on what I wrote, posters are picking out selective quotes from an article posted to debate.

For sure the article is biased and slanted. But it also contains more details and specifics and data than any other article I saw. And tell me - were you agreeing with the article when you verified that Portland violence was contained to a specific few blocks? I know you added the "Why" - but what the article stated was accurate right? .... It's funny because I also read that line and I think it is a major flaw to downplay the events of Portland, but was Portland a BLM movement? That was the topic? I honestly do not know. I thought it was a bunch of anti establishment idiots. And they too acted like criminals and should have all been prosecuted too.

Lastly - you want to quibble about 90% or 93% and make that a major sticking point but you accept an analogy that says if 10% of your houses in the neighborhood you live in .... ?

What has actually been stated by everyone is that those who committed criminal offenses in both cases should be prosecuted for the crimes they committed. So yes, there are legal ways to protest. Then there are those that claim factually based evidence that over 90% of the summer protests were peaceful is a lie. So if you're going to paint a picture fill in all of the colors.

The wild and whacky world of the denial of facts is on full display.

What even is a peaceful protest any more?

On the news they were showing protesters marching in NY about that guy who got murdered/killed on the subway and their signs were "No Justice And We'll Burn It All Down"

Like I said earlier, the 90......errr......93% statistic is pure BS. Everyone knows that. It's far too hard to decipher what were protests and were not. A ton of crap did not even get reported.

And trust me..........a ton of law-abiding citizens bought guns and more ammo during these so-called peaceful protests. It got to the point where acquiring ammo was very difficult. People wanted to be prepared in case Trump actually won the election. The rioting and crimes would have run rampant. The Left is all about the rights of the individual...well......unless you don't agree w/everything they say. Look at this board. We have posters hoping others die, threatening violence if they don't get their way, saying they think that the "thugs" on Jan 6th should have been shot and killed and the Left says nothing about it and even defends some of this garbage. Yet, they spend countless times trying to shout down opposing opinions.

They fought against us uniting as a country. They champion the division of our people. Well.......they got what they wished for.

No they "feel that".


One person said that. As a former teacher you still don't know the difference in the singular and the plural?

You've repeatedly been told you don't speak for everyone and yet you think you do. Yer just mad he pitTroped aren't ya?

I know how much certain people hate facts when it doesn't suit their narrative. There is nothing that shows that 93% as false other than "feelings". And only one person did make that comment which does not constitute "they". I'm sorry that you have nothing to refute that statistic or have the power to change a singular word into a plural. Maybe you will be bestowed such power in your next life.

Let's apply this logic to J6. 74 million people voted for Trump in 2020. It's estimated that 2500 people entered the Capitol on J6. Therefore, 99% of Trump voterrs were peaceful and you only focus on the ones that were not peacful.

Disclaimer(since I know the left will try to spin this) I am in no way defending what happened on J6. Just applying the '90% were peaceful so it's no big deal' logic to another scenario.



It's a slow morning, decided to look up the 2020 thread on this. Found these two quotes from various posters. Couldn't find one condeming the looting as you claim, but saw several calling discussions about looting 'whatabouts' and 'distractions'

I'm just reminding the bots you don't speak for everyone when you try to tell someone else they don't speak for everyone.

Where's my cape?

There are two huge differences there and its not at all the same logic. mgh used the number of people who had shown up while you wish to use a total of all who voted for Trump. You're trying to use an example of people who weren't even there.

Secondly, BLM was a protest against how blacks were being treated by law enforcement. While you can claim that's a political thing it's actually not. It's a social justice issue. Jan. 6th was certainly a political issue and an attempt to prevent the certification of our presidential election.

And yes, I fully understand that you aren't trying to defend what happened on Jan. 6th. As much as you point to the left spinning things, can you say your comment is really so different?


You see I fully understand there's a huge difference between common sense Republicans and "trumpians". Trying to put all of them into a single box as all being the same isn't a fair way of looking at them as a group.

Nor was your comment.

I had no idea that bots were supposed to wear capes.

I'm more the anti-hero cape type.

I learn more about bots every time you post.

Pit made some good points.

To add to them - I think we should focus, as far as law enforcement and prosecuting people - 100% on the people that were breaking the law. That would be all the people rioting, looting and defacing property. It would include all the people culpable and guilty of trying to stop the transfer of power by storming the capitol building. It's a pretty straight forward situation. Treat everyone equally under the law.

I didn't say that everyone that voted for Trump was guilty of anything in connection to the events of Jan 6th - only those that broke the law.