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I agree about FQB’s making their targets better. You see it all the time with Mahomes, Burrow, etc … they can make the average WRs good and the good WRs great.

Let’s hope Watson can get close to that level. He wasn’t good last season, especially with his eyes. I’m hoping it’s rust more than anything

You are right that Watson was not good last year. However, he has proven that he makes others better. I posted the stats of his WRs in Houston. Their numbers were far better w/him than when they played w/other qbs. That list includes Aaron Rodgers.

No doubt. we just have to hope he can return to that form of course

No doubt. I think the odds he will are far greater than the odds are he won't, so we just have to rely on that.

I've been underrating Goodwin.
maybe, just maybe, DPJ will have trouble getting playing time.
Maybe,
Cooper,
Goodwin,
Moore,
and Tillman and DPJ fighting for #4. ...

and,
I hadn't seen much of the new Tight end, Heeee, may be pretty good. Really good.
It may end up a shame what this team could do with real offensive coaching.

Isn't it interesting there is not a single picture of Schwartz and no one's talking about his speed....or ability....I think the team has moved on....unless he lights it up in pre-season.....GO Browns!!!

All rookies have a window of opportunity. For some it might be as long as a mini camp. For others it might be a few years, but if they don't start to meet expectations, the window closes.

Schwartz's window is about shut.

My guess is that no one is talking about his speed because we now have Moore and Goodwin. Speed is no longer a differentiator for Schwartz, which is about the only thing he brought to the table.

Agree with Peen, his window is about shut.

Schwartz has not participated in any OTA activities because he has been sidelined with an undisclosed injury.

Schwartz's future here isn't very bright. Truthfully, I can't even see him being signed by anyone else

Schwartz might be the worst 3rd RD draft pick ever in Browns
History. Berry swung and missed big time on him.
Schwartz will be out of football by the end of the year
There are better practice squad WRs in the NFL
Luckily in Berry's case he was able to acquire Moore
And Goodwin.
But Berry's ability to judge drafted players is still very debatable

Agreed. He has contributed Zero since he has been here.

Well, he single-handled got rid of Baker Mayfield. So, that was a contribution.

Totally agree with you. Getting rid of Baker cannot be over stated ever.

Travis Wilson was worse. He even proclaimed he was the best WR in the draft class that year. Had two career receptions for 32 yards.

Wow, I remember falling for the hype

That's a 16.o yard per catch average for a career. Pretty impressive if you look at it that way.

I think if one were to compare Berry's drafting v other GM's it would stack up as good as most.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2023/5/28/23740440/nfl-draft-browns-reviews-andrew-berry

Agreed. I've said this before I think Andrew Berry is very capable and smart and we're fortunate to have him.

All NFL GM's have their hits and misses. Trying to base how well or how poorly a GM has done is extremely subjective and the article Peen posted the link to uses a very poor barometer. Many lower tier players get second NFL contracts. The quality and status of those players can vary greatly. So just trying to use "players who get a second contract" as your guide isn't a very good gauge.

That's not saying I'm trying to undermine Berry. But as you can see form the list of players in the article, Newsome is the only top contributor on the team. You could certainly add Wills since he plays every down but he's not a highly rated OT. The others listed aren't highly touted at their positions. The quality of those players at their respected positions means quite a bit in regards to success. You can't actually compare marginal players who earned a second contract to highly regarded players who have earned a second contract unless you're trying to overvalue something that isn't actually comparable.

I don't consider Berry poor at drafting players but he seems to be far better at finding FA's of value and making solid trades than having any major draft prowess.

The thing I like about Berry is he is very calm, collected, and patient. His moves make good sense even if they don't work out. Granted because of the Watson Move we really haven't seen how he works the earlier rounds as much...But the mark of a good GM is the talent he can get from rounds 4-7. And while there are definitely times where "you" might want someone at a certain spot...or that a team gets a better pick in that range. I think Berry does a very good job of picking players that not only have potential, but also fit what the Browns are looking for. Too often we look at a great player and we don't extrapolate how he fits in with the Browns. He doesn't lean too much to either side of BPA or Need. I guess what I am saying is I come away from our drafts without much head scratching or much controversy.

If the Browns want to close the gap on the Bengals
Then it's imperative Berry finds draft picks that are difference maker
Game changers impact players etc etc.
It's not good enough to simply draft a starter anymore.
He has to be a playmaker.
Coming into 2023 pre draft name one offensive player that touches
The ball that Berry has drafted that you can call a playmaker.
How about on the defensive side?
All the other AFC North teams find difference makers even
In the mid rds but Berry swings and misses.

Drafting is hard. But that's a very rose tinted perspective of the Browns drafts under Berry. I think he's done very well with trades and FA signings... Drafts are much more questionable. Jmo

Grading Berry is fair....but don't forget our sad history- Gordon, Manziel, Green, Weeden, Quinn, Gilbert, and beat goes on. Too many didn't have even DECENT background checks done- Manziel and Gilbert for sure. Go Browns!!!

DPJ (5th Rounder) >>> Schwartz (3rd Rounder).

It happens, there are hits and misses, but I think Berry is doing a reasonable job.

I am pretty sure it was talking about players who got an extension or 2nd contract with the team that drafted them or first signed them.


Yep


Copied from supplied link.

That's exactly what I was talking about as well. What your article did not touch upon was the difference in signing role players to a second contract verses signing impact players to a second contract. My contention is simply this, when you break everything down to who gets a second contract you are omitting the actual value of those players. Signing marginal players to a second contract is not signing an impact player to a second contract. What you're doing is pointing out any player that is good enough not to be cut. It's far too general of a conclusion to have any real meaning.

It's also VERY dependent on how much talent you have on your team and most certainly within a unit on that team. A player who may get re-signed by a team with lesser talent at a position of weakness may have never been considered for a second contract by a more talented team where that same position is a strength.

Who was throwing to him? Travis Wilson we're talking about.

Our WR group ISN'T rated very high---who cares? Bottomline, production counts!!! Berry as GM, he bet the farm on D. Watson---if I was owner- GM, HC, DC---it all goes out the door if they don't produce THIS YEAR. You don't give up all that draft capital and have a down year with all the pieces in place. Players play and managers should be held accountable if it flops. Time will tell.

I think it will.

Haslam has spent the money and has been patient. You can't ask for more than that. He and the fans are expecting wins.

I am not one who is going to say a deep playoff run is the be all, end all, but 7-8 wins isn't going to cut it either. I think my expectation is 10-11 wins. If we do that, making the playoffs or not, 10-11 wins is the threshold. If we win 10-11 games, nobody should lose their job.

That is why we need to win early and against AFC teams. We have to get the tie breakers on our side.

I think you have described realistic expectations. What Berry has an uncanny knack for is finding players that fit without overpaying for them. An example of that is Moore. I think Moore was in a situation where he did not have an ample opportunity to showcase his talent and the hope is that situation will change with having watson as his QB. I'm not one for trying to predict the future but if the current strategy of investing in the passing game with having signed watson as the QB, I think Moore will turn out to be a great trade.

I see Moore as a young Landry who is faster and stronger--Moore is shorter, but I don't see that as an issue. I see him in slot most, but busting long ones also. He could be scary good.

That is why we need to win early and against AFC teams. We have to get the tie breakers on our side.

... Coach Kevin hasn't done well with that in the past. And the NFL seems biased to make any outcome happen that hurts the Browns, or Ohio, and the underworld props up the steelers every year too.

and the Browns were bad in September, of 2022,, again,
it took a field goal to beat the only opener, against Carolina, in the last @uarter century,
and they spend ninety percent of their weeks in 4th place in the div.

I think the coach and owner are addicted to making improvements which no matter how pretty might always = a coating of new paint,
fresh wet paint every year,
and
always last place so maybe old paint wins.

by that I mean, maybe, a team that doesn't make as many personel improvements
but thenward would know it's own team abilities better, be more familiar with itself as a group and a team,
which would allow it to do 2 percent of things, b/c it's familiar,
and that then would LOOK like better coaching

but it would just be old paint, but if old paint always wins...... "can't beat em, join em"

The Browns are trying new paint again.
new DC, new paint,
bye bye to Hunt and Clowney ... new paint
4+ new DL, new paint
WR, wholesale upgrade, new paint,
the plan at safety changes more or less often than the plan at @uarterback? ...
a plan at @uarterback that changes at I8 month intervals... ... until it doesn't it's still a mostly true statement.

and, one of these years it is going to work, Yay.

stay the course, don't change horses mid stream.

A fast Brennan.

We'll see. I think he will be way better than Brennan, and that isn't a knock on Brian. One of my favorite Browns players. Moore has the ability to create yardage which Brian didn't.

Brian had great hands and the ability to get an early step. His main benefit was Bernie. Bernie couldn't throw it all that far. Bernie had the ability to read coverages and toss it up there while his receivers had that step. Brennan wasn't catching balls 50 yards down field most of the time. He was catching them 30 yards down field. Bernie saw the step with no over the top coverage and tossed it up when Brennan was 10 yards down field. If there was over the top, Bernie might have been the best ever at looking in one direction and throwing another, to look off defenders. Kind of freakish to be honest.


It was a beautiful relationship.

Agree with what you said; Brian was one of my favorites, and Bernie made some clutch magic with him. I said so little, let me define a bit more (Moore). Moore can do extra things that Brennan couldn't match. I do expect Mootre's production to be higher output, mostly because of what you pointed out. But the single thing that I was most thinking about and what I loved about Brennan was his ability to move the sticks and sustain drives. More downs, possession time, ball control, all solid elements in winning with offense. Moore should score more, I would think.

I want to keep an eye on Mike Harley +, I think he's on an upswing and, in spite of room on the roster
Harley could end up doing good things for the Browns coming up, ... and I'm looking forward to it.

Keep, / practice s@uad, / or trade, the entire Wr room, player by player, starting at the bottom, everybody has personal preferences on who to keep. Harley is growing on me, he looks the part, he could be a good contributor.
Every team needs contributors.

I like Harley. I like several of our young guys.

I think the last position or two in that room are going to be very competitive. I wouldn't rule anybody out at this point and can only say 2-3 of them are "locks", so it should be a good camp. We should have a pretty good receivers on the practice squad if we can get them there and keep them there.