DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Fitch drops us bond rating

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...048ef2512c4faf89f9b31d31f7fa04&ei=15

Not a good sign.

US credit rating downgraded in shock move: ‘Deterioration in standards of governance’
Story by Reuters • Yesterday 7:18 PM
MARKETS TODAY



Ratings agency Fitch on Tuesday downgraded the US government’s top credit rating to AA+ from AAA, citing an expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years as well as a high and growing general government debt burden.

The dollar ticked lower following the downgrade, which came two months after President Biden and the Republican-controlled House reached a debt ceiling agreement after months of political brinkmanship. The deal lifted the government’s $31.4 trillion debt ceiling.

“In Fitch’s view, there has been a steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters, notwithstanding the June bipartisan agreement to suspend the debt limit until January 2025,” the rating agency said in a statement.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said she disagreed with Fitch’s downgrade, in a statement that called it “arbitrary and based on outdated data.”

Investors use credit ratings to assess the risk profile of companies and governments when they raise financing in the debt capital markets.

It's rather odd that the article states something as the reason for the downgrade that Fitch didn't actually state as the reason. In the opening of the article it states, "Ratings agency Fitch on Tuesday downgraded the US government’s top credit rating to AA+ from AAA, citing an expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years as well as a high and growing general government debt burden"

While what Fitch actually said was this, "“In Fitch’s view, there has been a steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters, notwithstanding the June bipartisan agreement to suspend the debt limit until January 2025,” the rating agency said in a statement."

The actual reason for the downgrade was based on the pattern of the past two decades as it pertains to the debt.

I think it's frankly a combination of the two. Two decades of abuse + no end in sight as we're basically falling off the edge instead of trying to make headway.

I certainly think not seeing any end in sight doesn't help matters.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that the U.S. government will run trillion-dollar deficits over the next 10 years. It's been accepted as the norm by each administration. They talk about fiscal responsibility but they know they won't be there long enough to feel the real repercussions. Eventually, it's got to stop. Most Americans on both sides of the aisle agree it has to stop.

I certainly agree with you. Each side spends like drunken sailors. We hear them talk about fiscal responsibility until they show just how much they ignore it.

You can put this 100% on ridiculous MAGA house Rs. They act like petulant children with zero clue of reality. I don’t blame Fitch. Meanwhile, Bidenomics has us back on the right track. Maybe we can end this MAGA crap and get back to having a respectable government.

The national debt is another matter and it falls on both sides of the aisle. There is good spending, and bad spending. Biden he’s done a good spend. Trump’s corporate tax cuts are killing us. Bring back the 90% top tax.

Our economy is essentially imaginary. I'm surprised it has lasted as long as it has. Elected officials treat the Federal Reserve like their own collective corrupt Monopoly banker. Just pulling money out of thin air whenever you want it shouldn't be a sustainable practice.

When the likes of MGT and Matt Gates get a million plus in covid money while working families starved, I would be forced to agree.

Would love to know how much the Trump syndicate stole.

The problem is nobody wants to take the drastic measure to stop the bleeding. It would be political suicide. One side would blame the other, get elected and then start handing out free things again to act as savior.

It probably won't end until the house of cards falls. Someone could try, but it wouldn't last long once people started to see cuts in benefits and services. We take a few half ass measures, but when a major artery is about to completely sever, you need more than a few bandages.

I don't know that it is as serious as I portray in my example, but it is getting critically close. You don't just turn things around in a day. We need a serious cap on spending, and it needs to be less than we currently spend. If that doesn't do it, taxes must be increased across the board, but I don't think lack of income is the primary problem. We just spend too much money.

If you have to cut off Netflix, you cut off Netflix. The American family has to do that. If you don't, sooner or later someone cuts the money flow if you are writing checks you can't back.

If we don't have serious, honest discussions about the problem now, and ACT on them, we will see the house of cards fall apart. It's like owing money to the Mob. You can't sleep it away nor hide out for a few weeks and they forget about it.

I'd argue there is acceptable spending, bad spending, and worse spending. Both parties spend way too much time doing the latter two. Very rarely is there "good spending." I definitely don't see how you've come to classify the entirety of the current administration's spend as "good." Maybe "good" for very little.

Bringing back exorbitant taxes would likely largely only get passed on to consumers. Sure, it'd give the government more money to spend with profligate abandon. Really, the government just needs to tighten their belts and stop acting like not spending money burns holes in their pockets.

The corps the 90% rate would fall on would have to keep you buying over priced goods to pass it on… So there is that. We the people have been beaten up enough over the last 40 years plus. Reaganomics destroyed our economy with a death of a thousand cuts. Manufacturing left, owners and managers earnings increased astronomically, and the service economy that followed has slowly bled the middle class dry. I agree we need radical economic changes, but my changes would not be like Peens changes. It’s time the people prosper and the powers that be pony up.

If history should have taught us anything it's that a strong middle class with buying power helps feed a good economy. A good economy is built from the bottom up and not from the top down.

Yep, but try teaching that to a Republican.

This sounds good. I just haven't seen a plan that actually gets us there. I don't think taxes are the answer. I've come to believe that the subconscious idea that (more) money can solve all of our problems is part of the problem. We need more work from our elected officials and less spending/throwing money at problems and being surprised when they don't get better. We need more sweat equity, innovation, hard looks and introspection. Unfortunately, there's not a quick fix pill to buy for this.

I think the biggest political hurdle to that is the two sides can't agree on what needs to be cut and what doesn't.

I would have to agree with this. They will never agree. They will just point fingers and say the other side isn't doing their part.

Which strikes me as working from the wrong direction. Starting with everything "cut," and coming to agreement on what absolutely has to stay would probably be more effective. Sadly, getting their piece of the pie, and keeping the gravy train coming, seems much more important than fiscal responsibility to most politicians.

I can't say that I disagree with you as to the best method to go about it as a starting point. I was simply stating why I don't think that will work.

You are a good example of why a logical conversation can't take place and nothing will get done.

Wrong. Bidenomics is kicking butt. And he swung for the fences like FDR. He needs 4 more years and a dem super majority… === economic issues resolved.

I know GOPers will find a way to stop progress, but hey maybe Jr. will run in 28 and then POTUS AOC can finish fixing it.

Oh, and don’t think you targeting me is going unnoticed. Don’t you have a nickel you need to polish? Something more important for you to focus on instead of hating on the only guy who has an actual clue. We all know you can’t see beyond your bank account, damn the mayhem, full steam ahead…

Why aren’t you pointing the fitch finger at the MAGA lunatics y’all elected?

The hateful extremist left pointing fingers is the reason the debt ceiling was raised once again.

Lol, chucked out a little troll bait, immediately got a bite.

Was it troll bait or did you leave behind troll spoor?

I mean really what would the point be of leaving "troll bait?" What were you hoping it would achieve? I'd really like to know your thought process.

Sadly, I think you are 100% accurate. Nothing will be done about it until the cards fall. One president will "preside" over that (although it will be more the work of his predecessors than anything else) and take the hit. Dire straights will dictate that the belt we're tightening is more like a tourniquet and we'll all pay the price. We'll dim the bulb on the future of the next couple generations, and lose our sovereignty on the world stage to do it.

There is no end in sight with the spending, and each administration merely accelerates the race to the end. There is always a new "tragedy" to write blank checks for and the vultures crowd the aisles to claim their stake. They tell us "this is just what we have to do, you don't understand"... because dot com bubble, because "terror", because housing crisis (the biggest scam in the history of our planet), because covid. Nobody ever even speaks to a rectification on the balance sheet going forward.

Eventually the bills become due.

My biggest problem is "the pork" and the fact that no attempt at solving a problem is ever approached like they're running a business. But I guess there's no need since someone else is paying the bill.

Imagine your son or daughter coming to you for help with a car loan. They have $4000 thousand saved for a 5k car, yet they ask your for $3000... "I have a bunch of other stuff to take care of." What stuff?" "Oh, just stuff... as a matter of fact, its four thousand pages worth of stuff". That's our government.

Imagine that same child already has three other cars, a Bentley, a Mercedes and a Lambo but are still asking you for money -- that's our corporate welfare system.

I am not targeting you. To be honest, I would rather not mention you at all.

I find it odd you chose to direct a post at the respondent and ignored addressing the instigator. But not surprised by it.

That's instigating? I guess in the sense that OCD could be #triggered by a blade of grass... but is that her fault?

If you can't see it you're beyond help. Try breaking the sentence down if you find it that complicated. Start with "hateful extremist left".

...what is "chucking out troll bait" if not instigation? I think you may have the concept of instigator and respondent backwards. I'm really not even sure who you are referring to in each instance? Who do you think is the instigator? What were they instigating? Maybe you can somehow twist up an argument for someone else instigating something, but OCD flat out stated that he had chucked bait.

Nobody needs to "twist" anything up to see this.

We both know that in the first place this is nothing more than a blatant lie. We both know that both parties spend like drunken sailors when they are in power. We both know that the use of "hateful extremist left " is doing nothing but baiting the other side.

I'm not even sure why you would attempt to try and pretend otherwise. I know you're smarter than that.

Maybe you're referring to something different?

The post you're referencing is a response (which would make the person that posted it a respondent) to an "instigating" post that OCD admitted was bait (instigation) immediately thereafter.

You're kind of right at the beginning of your post. ...Trying to make sense of the things you see is a task that I'm not sure can be helped. I think it might say more about you than the person that can't see it, though.

You act like Eve's post happened in a vacuum or started the exchange. Read the post immediately before it. OCD brought up hating. OCD brought up finger pointing. OCD called people lunatics.

Was what Eve replied hyperbolic? Sure, but it was a response to instigation and directly reflected his language choices.

Yes, both sides spend like drunken sailors. In the current case, the President is a democrat, so this time the "left" is ultimately responsible for "the debt ceiling being raised once again."

Break it down? The instigator (the guy who instigates all subjects at DT) was obvious... as it is in every thread. Hell, he even said he was instigating. Just because his behavior is so infantile doesn't mean it should be ignored as "just the way it is" and blame others for responding to his gibberish.

j/c

Failing to take responsibility and absolving responsibility (especially when the person is on "our side") are a big part of many of the issues in this country/the world. Everybody wants their rights to be respected, but very few people seem to take up the corresponding responsibilities. People would rather make excuses than face hard choices/realities.

Yes, after reading back over the thread I see what you and Bull are saying. My bad. Both of them have the same MO to a great extent. Dropping one liners just to stir up trouble. In this case it was OCD that started it.

Good, go with that.

Even infantile is a step up from GOPer. But my coming in here once or twice a week this time of year and stirring the pot is just to make sure y’alls blood is still flowing. Reading the same old tired ass comments and lame cheap shots gets pretty boring. Pit vs. random GOPer every damn day. Trumpians denying reality, so called non Trump supporting GOPers sounding like Trump supporting GOPers, and a few out lashes from the same 2 or 3 posters… I just want to liven things up for you fate, that’s all.

But I know you struggle to take the hits when I go after you, so I don’t. But here we are, you taking another cheap shot at me. Infantile.

Actually, there were a lot of good posts here about a bipartisan problem...

You turn it into Trump, Trump, evil GOPers, etc.

But hey, at least you're entertained now and it's no longer boring for you.