DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshaun Watson

Yes! (It's usually twelve)

Thanks for making my point!

I think we changed "scripts" significantly when Conklin went down. Jones is doing admirably individually, but the communication on the OL is decidedly a work in progress. Trying to work in a rookie at the last minute is rough, particularly on the OL. It's not really like a QB gaining chemistry with his receivers. Those can be more individual so you can roll guys through. While each route has to fit together schematically, ultimately each receiver isn't reliant on another receiver to know which route to run. The OL has to be a cohesive unit and they all have to more or less "mind-meld." They can't just "run their routes," OL have to adjust for what the defense is throwing at them on the fly every play. I think some of Teller's struggles were from being used to having Conklin's help and knowing that there'd be help with certain things. Jones was understandably focused on blocking TJ Watt. Throw in Wills struggling more than usual and it puts a QB (and OC/team in general) in a tough spot.

Frequently, when an OL is struggling, the QB is struggling. I'm not sure if there is a quick fix with OL cohesion. I think spreading out and getting guys out of the box can simplify things for the OL and Watson potentially. The more moving parts (blockers and defenders across from those blockers) something has, the more potential there is for one of the linkages to break down. Going 6 OL and 2 TEs had a lot of breakdowns and exploited (by them) mismatches (i.e, Watt bullying Bryant.)

The problem is a few of you aren't making any points. His play has been putrid and his disclaimer in all of that is that they aren't on the same page, which is the responsibility of the HC. Somehow you think that's everyone elses fault for pointing it out. Nobody is seriously climbing down into that rabbit hole with you.

1. Both Burns and Cosell have stuff on it.
2. Watch the game and watch the replays with a focus on the receivers.
3. Common sense. Occasionally in the NFL there will be a handful of plays in a game where receivers aren't open. But not entire games. That defies logic.

I watched Quincy Carrier's DeShaun Watson tape breaking down every pass thrown in the Steelers game.

He was late on quite a few throws. Just a split second but that is all it takes for the defenders in this league to break on the ball and break up passes. He seems hesitate and lacks confidence with throws down the middle of the field. His sideline passes are much more accurate and on time that over the middle.

Now as far as receivers running wide open. That is only half the story. There were receivers breaking open on throws were the Oline had breakdowns and caused him to check down, take a sack, or scramble. Wyatt Tellar struggled mightily and caused pressure up the middle which gives most QB's fits. It was shown time and time again on film. There is no denying that.

On the first play of the game pick 6. The Steelers got a hand at the line of scrimmage on the pass that caused the pass to change direction. Probably caused Harrison Bryant to not catch the ball. It is very tough for receivers to catch balls that are deflected and change flight patterns. The int should have never happened though but Jordan Akins did not run a full route to the 35-yard line and stopped at the 30 where the ball came off Bryant's hands. Akins defender on the play tipped the ball that came off Bryant's hands and the defender playing Bryant Highsmith then picked it off. Had Akins ran his route no one would have been there to deflect the ball off Bryant's hands and cause the INT.

The fumbled ball was all on Watson. The play was set for him to take 3 steps and fire or tuck it and run. He held the ball and Highsmith hit him and he fumbled.

Watson has been late with his passes over the middle and not as accurate with his throws over the middle. So far not showing the same level of confidence in those throws' vs the sideline throws that have been on time and accurate. That needs to improve. He is holding balls longer than he should. The decision to tuck and run when the throw is not there is not happening fast enough. Those 2 areas Watson must improve.

The Oline has been much better run blocking than pass blocking, and the pressure Watson has felt can be improved and I believe every member of the Oline would say the same. Vs the Steelers most of the pressure came thru Wyatt Tellar and not Wills. Wills struggled in first game vs Hendrickson.

Our receivers are not yet in mid-season form and could run better routes. Especially, Akins and Ford.

The QB gets most of the blame when the team plays bad and too much credit when they play well. I expect to see Watson play better and alot of that will be improvement with Oline and routes being ran by new players. When he starts to sthrow with the same level of confidence over the kiddle of the field he is throwing the sideline routes then this offense will really start clicking.

1. Post links or tell me what/where to search, please.
2. I can't, I'll throw up... still going through my stages of grief.
3. The other side of common sense is the ALL QBs miss open receivers every week. I'm interest in the 4 W's and time of game (the OL was whipped by halftime, I actually called they asses elves).

Watson has sucked and nobody's saying he didn't. No need to make up lies that he hasn't accepted responsibility, which he did in a public forum. I didn't see where he said it was the coaches fault they weren't on the same page. With your peculiar dot connecting skills, you could just as easily say he was assigning blame to himself.

That would not fit his agenda!!!

Please explain to me whose responsibility it is to get the team working on the same page for game days? Not by playing connect the dots because that isn't needed here. Not by trying to deflect. You can huff and puff all you like but trying to pretend this isn't claiming that "the biggest issue" is that they are not prepared to work as a team on game day and that that goal isn't the sole responsibility of the HC is trying to ignore the obvious in what he is saying there. You can pretend otherwise all you like. You can blame me for what he said if that somehow makes you feel better. But that doesn't change anything.

Aw. Since when is the truth suddenly an agenda?

1. From this year or last year? I haven't seen much from this year yet.
2. I have multiple times. I'm not seeing receivers running open that he's missing. When they're open, he's getting the ball out to someone. Pass catchers are not always hanging on or getting their feet down. Near misses like that happen to every QB. Plays could have been made. He did miss a throw behind Strong who's not been here very long. I doubt Strong would be in there if Chubb hadn't gone down. Watson did sail the ball out of bounds at the end of the 2nd to last drive (with Watt at his feet) after getting pounded the previous play (where the LB tackled DPJ while Watson was in the "pocket"). Watson had a nice hole shot to Moore on the last drive to convert a first down after a false start put us behind the chains. He was pressured (quickly) the next 3 plays. It ended on an attempted back shoulder where Porter interfered with DPJ so he couldn't come back to the ball. Turnovers and penalties (on us and uncalled on them) killed us. Throw in a missed field goal. Everything that could go wrong went wrong in that game, and a lot of it wasn't Watson.
3. When the receivers were open, he threw it to them. There weren't any blown coverages to take advantage of, which a lot of people are making it sound like. Every time we started to get something going, there'd be a turn over or a penalty or a missed kick.

I found the actual PC on clevelandbrowns.com. The question starts at :46

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/video/deshaun-watson-every-week-is-a-new-challenge-in-the-nfl

Here's the transcript, if you don't want to watch the vid...



Man, it's a serious (if not impossible) stretch to take all that and say it's Deshaun not taking responsibility and pointing the finger at others.

I see you are still avoiding what he claimed the biggest problem was and whose shoulders that responsibility falls on. I'm not saying he isn't taking "some of the responsibility" because he is. But what he is also doing is claiming the biggest problem falls on the shoulders of someone else. The two are not mutually exclusive of one another. He did both at the same time.

Dot connecting, expert mode.

Speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I've seen a few people say this, and I'm not sure where it's coming from. It was a play action pass. Why Stefanski thought that was a good place to go play action, I am really not sure. Maybe he'd done something to try to set it up. Unfortunately, the Steelers knew it was a pass and didn't play the fake at all. Jake Burns talks about it on one of the OBR podcasts. (link) It seems Watson and the line adjusted the protection which isn't something that happens during a run play which tipped Pitt off. Perhaps in the future we can fake a similar situation and actually run the ball instead. It wasn't necessarily the play call or design that was bad or gave play action away, but the way they happened to be aligned to defend the formation caused an adjustment which gave it away.

That's a new one for me. I don't know. It just kind of felt like every random thing that could go wrong did Monday night.

As expected, nothing of substance that disputes any point I made. Typical.

So blind you can't see the forest for the trees. Expert Mode! Maybe a better explanation would be you are pretending there's no forest there in the first place.

You guys sure do a lot of finger pointing to try and dance around what he said.

Except your point isn't really valid. He never claimed the biggest problem fell on someone else. You are making that claim for him. He repeatedly said to put the blame on him. You trying to put words in someone else's mouth, typical.

Seriously, did you read anything past the original snippet?

Yes I did. Not having your team prepared to be on the same page on game day rests on the HC. Once again, taking some responsibility while casting some of it on the HC is not mutually exclusive.

Either he did or he did not claim not being on the same page was a problem. He obviously did. It seems your only qualm is the term "biggest". Everyone knows, while they aren't willing to admit it obviously, that having the team on the same page on game day is the responsibility of the HC. Semantics doesn't change that.

So, we've gone from "And so it begins" responding to five words in a Tweet...

To: He's not taking responsibility
To: He's talking out both sides of his mouth
To: The entire answer to the question means nothing -- only the five words "not on the same page".
To: It's not his teammates responsibility to be on the same page.
To: Watson said it's "the biggest issue". (He never said anything of the sort, he was asked and responded to "what is your biggest issue" and mentions no teammates).
To: Well, he must be throwing Stefanski under the bus then.

Now everyone else is crazy and "can't see the forest for the trees".

He's certainly not taking all the responsibility which is what some of the assertions you and a few others on your crew have claimed. Once again, you ignore what he said because it in no way supports the empty argument you are trying to make. Please point out where I ever claimed he wasn't taking any of the responsibility. I'll wait. The ENTIRE answer means something, not just parts of it. And it appears you are still in denial about whose responsibility it is to have the team prepared and playing on the same page. Part of his answer was putting some of the blame on Stefanski. But pleas, do go on.

Let me try to help you out here. At this juncture the best argument you could be making is to claim that it was partly Stefanski's fault and watson is simply telling the truth. That may be far more accurate than the lost path you have been taking so far.

Having everybody on the same page takes everybody. Watson included himself in that everybody. He didn't single anybody out and blame them, only himself.

You're trying to create an issue that isn't there. How much responsibility can he take for other people's responsibilities? He took all the responsibility that it is humanly possible to take. Other people are responsible for their responsibilities. It's a fact. He didn't call anyone out. He pointed to his part in the shared responsibilities while answering a direct question. Being on the same page is a collective effort that happens to include Watson. It was clearly an issue, and he owned his part in it.

You seem to be once again trying to twist and cherry pick words to fit an agenda.

I'll ask you yet again, whose responsibility is it to have the team ready to perform and have their players on the same page come game day? Nobody has to name someone or openly "throw anyone under the bus" for people to understand this. What some of you seem to be doing is ignoring what those words mean to promote your agenda.

As I said, I can see some merit in how an argument could be made that Stefanksi was responsible for not having the team on the same page. After all, having a game plan and having the players on the same page on game day is his responsibility. But we all know that. With the exception of a chosen few that seem to indicate by attempting to try to gloss over that to make me the culprit for the fact watson said it.

See, that's where you and some others argument falls short. In fact your own post points that out.


And you are correct.

That's why he pointed out that the team wasn't on the same page come game time. That part wasn't his fault at all. But anyone being honest knows exactly whose responsibility for making that happen is.

And once again zero substance in your feeble attempt to attack the messenger. Same as it ever was. But when facts get in your way, that's all you're left with.

It's not Stefanski's responsibility alone as you keep trying to indicate. It's everybody's responsibility. Every single player and person associated with the team has to take ownership of his or her part of it. Stefanski can't take care of other people's responsibilities any more than Watson can. He can give them the "tools" but he can't do it for them. Each person has to take care of their part of it. Watson took the blame for his part of it.

I see you're still in denial of whose job it is to have the team ready and on the same page when game day arrives. Watson did take the blame for his part of it. he also made it known in the very next breath that the team wasn't ready to work as a unit. But let me ask you something. Is it your contention that all of these multiple players weren't on the same page because of their own doing? Because that seems to be the argument you are now trying to make. You do understand that seems a very unlikely scenario, right? It seems like quite a reach for you to head in the direction that all of those players who have found success working as a team and being on the same page with other HC's be it in college or in the pro's, suddenly can't get on the same page with the Browns besides something other than themselves being the mitigating factor here.

If these players lacked the ability to learn a system and being on the same page as their teammates they would not have been successful enough to still be playing in the NFL. Stefanski has the responsibility to have these guys who have proven in the past they can play as a team member and be able to play on the same page as their teammates to do it for the browns on game day. Or did multiple players simply forget how to do that?

"It's just we're seeing different defenses that we've seen in the past," Mahomes said after Sunday's loss. "We have a lot of stuff, we read coverages and run routes to different spots and we're just not on that same page."

#cancer


“Just not being on the same page with the guys we’re throwing to,” Rodgers said when asked about the perpetual struggles.

#toomuchayahuasca


Tom Brady: “There were too many plays that we were not on the same page and we all were not seeing it the same way,”

#crappycoach

When players go down, you have to adjust. Conklin went down week 1, then Chubb went down. Those are big parts of the offense. They'll have to adjust. Its not instantly going to be perfect while working in less experienced players. They have to get on the same page. It's not just replacing the individual players that were lost, its "re-learning" the interaction of every situation between every other player and the replacements. Sometimes those replacements require you to help in entirely new ways. It will take some time to figure out. Hopefully the rest of the Steelers game took care of a decent chunk of that. They all have their work cut out for them on a short week.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...-sooner-or-later-its-going-to-click.html

Here.

I've seen this movie before. I don't think Watson is going to improve.

I think Stefanski can succeed with a pocket passer. That's what his offense needs. Guys are open or they are available to be thrown open if the QB understands what he's looking at. He needs a guy who can drop back, plant, fire. That's not Watson. We basically need a more dynamic version of Baker/Brissett.

If Watson continues to play like he is, this team doesn't have the culture, backbone, or leaders to prevent a meltdown. For years the Steelers and Ravens would trot out subpar offenses and top 5 defenses and ride that formula to the playoffs. The defense was ok with putting that on their shoulders. They were ok with being on the field for 40 min/game. That's not the Browns. The Browns are a 'hang your head and give up' team when things aren't going well all the way around. And if Watson doesn't improve thats where the team is headed. And that would be another year of wasted talent.

There's a QB on the roster who will perform better than Watson. Just have to figure out how to get him on the field.

Q is a true fan and knowledgeable analyst.