I was panicked last year by week 16-17 ... and he's no better now. It's red alert time for me. He seems like he can't read a defense, has no confidence or consistency.

For every good play he has, there are 3 bad ones

Any chance the Jets would consider Watson for Dalvin Cook trade? LOL

I've seen people say "we need to just play to his strengths for the time being" ... what ARE his strengths?

Watson is terrible. As soon as it became clear last year that he had no idea what to do once he dropped back in the pocket I had a bad feeling this is where it would end up. It was the same issue with Baker. Reading a defense pre snap means nothing. Knowing where to go with the ball post snap is literally the difference between winning and losing. It got no better in preseason and the Eagles practice. We are stuck unless Watson gets hurt and DTR gets in. He showed how to play the QB position post snap.

If there is any optimism at all its the defense. They are legit good. They need to accept putting it all on their shoulders. Browns can make the playoffs with this defense. But they need to accept the challenge. Not hang their heads in typical Browns fashion.

The Steelers are not a good team. Competent QB play and we blow the Steeleers out last night. Disappointing we cannot get to 2-0 ever.

agreed ... his post-snap QB play is atrocious. You gotta just go straight gun from now on to eliminate that process and simplify it.

No longer are we a running team

j/c...

we are 2-0 with Baker, Brissett, Holcomb, Couch, Garcia, Anderson, etc

No way we are 2-0 with Baker. He has the same issue as Watson. Brissett would be a toss up but likely not 2-0 there either. Couch is the only one as long as it is early in his career couch before he got pulverized.

Do you think the Bucs have a better team than the Browns?

I honestly don't want to continue to refer to his past history but his latest under pressure match moments behavior has similarites with his off the field behavior with all these women who, if I put it nicely, accused him of inappropriate behavior.

Either his thought process isn't good enough or when he's under stress he tend to make "dumb" decisions without value the consequences into consideration.

There're too many times where he has lost his composure for it to be a coincidence. Combine that with Stefanski's lack of leadership and Deshauns fully guarantee salary and you have a unmanageable situation with almost zero financial accountability and limited power to correct a unattainable leadership situation. Either we need a new HC with better leadersship skills or we sooner or later need to cut ties with a underperforming and highly overpaid franchise QB. I personally is much more in favor of letting Stefanski go than Watson but keeping both seems to not be the best way forward based on both past history.

Is there any viable way to get out of his contract without having to gut the team? Possible to eat the remainder of his contract with restructuring of other contracts?

There is a great article on this on the OBR this morning.

And yes, the article has come out 8 games into Watson's career with the Browns.

Baker has done just enough to NOT lose in 2 games, so I guess it's an argument... either way these comparisons are going away after he plays the Eagles.

So the way that reads we are stuck with him.

Yes.
We are 100% on the hook for ALL of that money, so there is no way at all we dump him early and allow him to go get another contract.
Plus, there's probably zero chance that we could absorb the acceleration of all unaccounted for prorated bonus money, even if we gutted the team.

We are stuck with this.

Imagine being Berry and being thrust into the Watson decision ... and putting together this great roster, and then watching that disaster last night

Hari kari is still an honorable option.... or resignation. Whichever.

The Browns would have to cover Watsons salary as well.

I'd be ok with that. Lol

Watson isn't an NFL QB he's a thrower, he needs to be in the shotgun where he can see the field during the whole play because he can't read the defense fast enough when he has to turn his back to the defense to fake a hand-off. He's a backyard QB where the WRs run whatever routes they feel like and you just throw to which ever one that gets open. Didn't like the trade when it happened and I like it even less now.

Genuinely curious, who made the call on Watson?

It’s obvious what’s going on with DW. He got his guaranteed money and he really doesn’t care anymore.

And that's a legitimate question. All we know for sure is that the man who writes the checks okayed it. Otherwise we may never know for sure. But we all know if it continues on its current path, there will be fall guys that pay the toll.

Who made the call on Watson..?...JIMMY HASLAM

No doubt there were others who support the BOSS but when it comes to spending 3 first round draft picks and $230 million...only one person makes that decision in Cleveland.

Haslam is totally involved in running this franchise and everyone else is around to give their support to Jimmy

Something I feel that needs to said...Watson is the 2nd highly rated QB that Stefanski has been trusted to develop.

Stefanski's first year in Cleveland, riding the coattails of the Browns successes during the 2020 season with Mayfield as his QB gave many a false hope that KS was some kind of QB guru.

Stefanski is what his record says he is...

I’m not going to throw in the towel after game 2, but damn DW needs to figure it out. Last year they called it rust. Maybe this is why he needed so many massages, he needed the oil like a tin man with a permanent fight against rust. Everyone said he was elite. I’m still waiting to see even a glimmer of that.

And for the Baker Bashers, y’all and OBJ did this… enjoy it.

I'd feel so much better if Watson just looked a little "off" or whatever, but he is BAD right now. Across the board ... decision making, slow eyes, inaccuracy, bad body language, etc. He's garbage

More problems for Watson?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-evaluate-discuss-plays-involving-132419821.html

yeah, I couldn’t believe he used the face mask to push those guys into the dirt like that. There was no incidental about that and he should be fined. And quite frankly, I wouldn’t care in the slightest if he were suspended or benched for it. just plain dirty play and low character af.

I must've missed him shoving an official, and the announcers must have as well because I don't remember it at all. The first facemask was egregious (grabbed it, held, and pulled defender down to the ground). The second one was much less so (less so than when he himself was dragged down by his facemask early in the game).

If he shoved an official, he's definitely going to get some heat and deservedly so. He was extremely undisciplined most of the game.

NFL basically saying, "you can have him, Browns".

And I'm certainly not expecting you too. But a more accurate description would help. He is an NFL veteran QB with four years as starter of the Texans who has started 8 games with the Browns. He played six games last season with the Browns, had the entire off season, training camp and preseason to prepare for this season. That's where it stands as of now.

While one may have been somewhat less egregious, they were both very blatant and obvious face masks. I mean last week we heard that somehow an NFL football magically transformed into as Nerf football that absorbed water which made it heavier. At some point we have to call it for what it is.

Here is the shove…

Thanks for posting the clip.

Yeah, dudes have been sat for WAY less than that. Usually zero tolerance.

Kind of nit pick. Not much there to speak of.

Watson being suspended would actually be a good thing.

Give me some DTR!

I’ve lost all respect for this franchise between DW and Ski. Everything from the trade that got us DW to scapegoating and crapping on Baker to this pitiful excuse for an offense. Ski can not handle adversity. He sucks at play calling. And he is in OVER his head. DW seems purely low character and nowhere near the elite player that was promised. I wouldn’t even call him average at this point, more like an overrated backup.

That's nothing.

In the grand scheme of things, compared to far more important things most have dismissed, it's pretty low on the pecking order.

That was a good NO CALL by the official...

Stefanski needs to do a bit of real coaching though, driving the point home to Watson...don't do that again..!

Well, now we've seen a quick trip from a soggy football to a player that looks like he has no answers. We're already knee-deep in excuses so they'll be few and far between going forward. Your biggest weapon is gone. The team, fanbase, media and everyone with a megaphone will now be staring at the 250M man saying "it's time to show me".

Hope Bone doesn't mind me pulling this from the postgame thread, it may easily be the opening sentence to chapter two of this mystery/horror/comedy piece that this team always turns out to be... the jokes always writing themselves amidst the bloodshed.


When I analyzed this trade, shortly after the deal, this was my biggest concern... What if this isn't easy?

In Houston, things went sour in a hurry when the going got rough. You've been outspoken while many others have swept it under the rug.

Is there a possibility that there is a structural defect (Static-X reference) in Deshaun Watson and he goes dark when things don't go his way? Looks like we're about to breach that possibility, because his back is now firmly against the wall. And his coaches excuses won't cut it, because he's standing right next to him.

Fun times!

It depends on what you call "making" the call.

Berry is the one who first brought up signing Watson. He's the GM and Jimmy gives him latitude. He's the GM.

Jimmy obviously agreed and went along with the contract. His GM sold him on the move and he agreed.

Berry was the point. He is the one who talked to agents and Houston about details of the trade and the contract.

I know Jimmy isn't liked by many, but let's quit blaming him for everything that goes wrong. He has his football people who say "we got to get this guy" and he says go get him once they sell the idea.

If you are going to blame him for everything, he should get all the credit for things like getting Amari, Teller, Myles, Chubb, etc....if he is hamstringing Berry, he has been doing it to all the GMs.

I have no idea. If I were qualified to make that kind of diagnosis I would be taking more trips to Fiji.

I just saw obvious warning signs which I felt were easy to see. It began surroudig his problems with the team in Houston and went downhill from there.

As far as how he performs with the team I hope he can turn it around even though I have my doubts at this juncture. As much as people on this board failed to understand my thinking about this there are 52 other players on this roster and a coaching staff that had zero say in signing watson. For their sake as well as the sake of the fan base I hope this all works out for the best.

I would take no pleasure in watson failing as a QB with the Browns.

Haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, so forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but...

Watson directly gave more points to the steelers (Pick 6 and fumble returned for a TD - total 14 points) than our defense allowed (12)

Oh it's been pointed out by more than just someone !

I didn't want to bring his stink to the Browns
I didn't want to bring his stink to Cleveland

Now all he is doing is bringing his stink to the field.

If you didn't want , then why did you ?

you the reason the stink you didn't want on the field is

On the field ? lol J/K !!

He is here and as fans nothing we say or do will change the fact that he will be here for some time

Like him love him hate him (prefer dislike) not sure yet really doesn't matter

options:

Support the team you love by watching at home, listening too, being at the game ,local bar or friends house

find another team you could root for

another hobby on game day

or just just deal with it's what the Browns have as a QB

I said after the game last night I wouldn't watch another game until the Browns

Did enough to earn back my being a fan by winning

Then I realized, I might miss some really good football or

Live in the hell this team has put most of us through since "99"

LOL ! in a somewhat sad way !

Nice Mayfield 2 wins 0 losses and don't talk because you did not predict
Before it happened my 13 year old daughteris that smart.

Cannot root for another team
Will deal, as he is our Qb for the foreseeable future

Though I gave up sunday ticket when we signed him
Live in Charlotte so don't get most Browns games on tv

That’s the only thing keeping me here. I don’t know how I could root for another team. But I may have to adopt a 2nd team just to enjoy something on Sundays. I’ll give Watson this year to prove himself, but if he doesn’t and we are strapped with him, I’ll treat it like the move 2.0.

I feel you OCD my friend

Been texting Columbusdawg and told him

I hope this isn't hell and eternity is going to be a Browns fan

Reliving all the Brown fans memories

LOL !

I've ripped on too many bandwagon Bengals and Chargers fans to adopt a second team.

jc

Watson is going to set this team back 10 years. We're stuck with him for 4 years. Then when he is finally gone, we're looking at another 3-5 year rebuilding plan. Sad that all the suffering of the 1-31 seasons has come to this, more suffering.

There is absolutely zero reason to stick with any element of the offense that doesn't cater to Watson's strengths. Shotgun/pistol all day and find a RB that can work with that.

I like the Chargers. They are my bestie's team so I follow them a lot.

Interesting question to consider: how will we change things up, now that our best player is done for the season? Ford had some good runs but we need another back.

Chubb is done for the year, we have to get over it, so now what? We still can excel at the run game because we’re built for that. Suddenly D’Ernest looks appealing doesn’t he?

but this is where Watson has to earn his big money, it’s where Stefanski earns another season.

j/c...

Not sure how many of you have access to The Athletic ... they did an article about how/why Watson wasn't ejected for shoving the official... comments are hilarious.

https://theathletic.com/4879373/202...?source=ukdailyemail&campaign=711528

Watson is more responsible for our bad plays than anything else. He holds onto the freaking ball and can't read anything post-snap. And that's not to mention the inaccuracy we've seen.

Browns were facing 4th down in 1st qtr needing just 12 inches for the 1st down...ball was on the Steelers 43 yd line...

What was the play call that Stefanski sent in...anyone..?

an option play HAHA ... with the play before that being some abortion as well

The wrong one.

Should the Browns Brass be held responsible for calling the play that resulted in the Watson fumble?

The Browns will never win a damn thing if the Browns Brass continues to call STUPID PLAYS like the triple option that STEFANSKI CALLED, with the offense facing 4th down and needing only 12 INCHES to make the 1st down (at the 25 second mark in the 1st qtr with the Browns driving).

Watson should not be held responsible for a Browns coaching staff that is determined to play Stupid Football for reasons they refuse to answer for.



Simple question for Stefanski...why did you call a triple option play when the offense was facing 4th down and 12 inches toward the end of the 1st qtr?

Agreed.

And I think his propensity to run with the ball is problematic because he tends to put his head down and loses sight of his receivers. When he looks up to get rid of the ball, it's doubly tough trying to see what the receivers have done (perhaps re-routing) adjusting to him running.

Maybe I'm wrong and he has kept his head up when pressured but that's what I remember.

Does he? Asking an honest question.

I have been told on here a couple times that running out of the gun isn't something most backs like to do. It's not something I totally understand having not played the game, but it's been said enough times that I've taken it as a truth as I continue to learn about the game.

I think if we are going to go out and get a RB that's going to be looked at as "the guy" this year, he's probably not just going to be a poor man's Chubb (snicker). I would expect that, if our offense is going to start looking different, the RB we pick up is going to look different too. Interestingly, I wonder if Hunt is actually the one that fits the bill (good at passblocking and catching out of the backfield, maybe good running out of the gun (?)).

another concern of mine: Watson seems to be really pressing and in his own head too. And that can keep continuing to spiral downwards. At some point we need him to make some big plays and gather some momentum

He's broken mentally. He's a villain. Something he has never dealt with before. Outside of Cleveland, in the NFL world, he is hated.

If he plays like trash against the Titans the boos will rain down in Browns stadium. Things could get bad fast.

His mechanics have not been good either.

We are witnessing worst case scenario with Watson. The Browns need a win Sunday to keep this from spiraling.

Ugly press

Jason La Canfora
@JasonLaCanfora

"You get the feeling a lot of the guys hate Watson, for good reason, and he can't take being a heel. Shoulda been thrown out of the game already. He's a joke."

You answer your own question!

We can call it whatever we want but the end result witness of incompetence. There’s no other word to use when describing a HC who time after time after time keep on repeating similar mistakes game after game. My opinion is crystal clear. With Stefanski at the wheel we’re going nowhere. He’s a good school teacher, not an elite HC on NFL level.

The same has to be said about our GM.

Berry and his staff didn’t properly do their due diligence and what’s worse they didn’t fully factor that maybe his off the field shortcomings was sprung from his mental weaknesses. The signs was there for all to see for those who was willing to look at it with honest minds. Now it been exposed in game moments and he has showing lapses in his impulse control and it’s all there again to see and if last game is anything to go at we also saw a elite paid QB with a slow thought process who panicking when the storm was coming. Not to mention weak pocket awareness and a bunch of inaccurate passings. Not what to expect from a $230M fully guaranteed salary player who has been described as a elite talent. This isn’t solely his fault because he arrived with high expectations but in the end the real blame is on the Browns decision maker.

As it stands now and if nothing changes in the future this will go to history as one of the worst contracts ever signed by a NFL franchise. We as fans has to expect better from those who get royal salaries mostly from our pockets. With so high compensations comes total accountability and I can’t say Berry and Stefanski deserves especially high praises for their jobs as as it stands. If this season ends without a play off run it’s a failure and heads has to roll.

pretty much what I assumed

right now his strengths are meditating on the sideline, moving poorly in the pocket, scrambling when someone gets within 3 feet of him, runs into sacks, holds onto the ball too long because he reads a defense like an 8th grader, he fumbles often, he keeps missing receivers by 5 yards because he gets lazy with his throwing motion and he stays tall.


Obviously, Stefanski has a lot to work with.

The press hates him. I don't think the players do. For crying out loud there have been rapists (Big Ben) and murderers (Ray Lewis) in the NFL. Watson was not even accused of those kind of crimes. Does he need to play better? Yes, he does. but this take is just plain silly!

No, watson should be blamed for not securing the ball.

Last year through 6-games, it was blamed totally on rust. This year after a full off season, improved skill players, OTAs, preseason and 2 regular season games - Watson's performance has gotten worse. To date, Watson has been paid $91.047M for those 8 games played or $11.381M per game played thus far.

Deshaun Watson needs to play better, and Kevin Stefanski needs to make adjustments. Out of 35 QBs with 200 passing attempts since the start of 2022, he’s:

33rd in yards/attempt (just below Carson Wentz)

33rd in passer rating (just below Davis Mills)

34th in sack rate (with arguably the best OL in football)

34th in completion % (57.3%)

Since 2000, these are the 17 QB's with 8 or more starts completion %
1. Brissett 64.0% - 11 starts
2. Kessler 63.8% - 8 starts
3. Holcomb 63.7% - 12 starts
4. Frye 62.4% - 19 starts
5. Mayfield 61.6% - 59 starts
6. J. McCown 60.4% - 11 starts
7. Couch 59.8% - 45 starts
8. Dilfer 59.8% - 11 starts
9. McCoy 58.3% - 21 starts
10. Watson 57.3% - 8 starts
11. Garcia 57.1% - 10 starts
12. Manziel 57.0% - 8 starts
13. Hoyer 56.0% - 16 starts
14. Pederson 55.7% - 8 starts
15. Kizer 53.6% - 15 starts
16. Anderson 52.9% - 34 starts
17. Quinn 52.1 % - 12 starts

And do you remember what Browns fans said about that? Do you remember how disgusted we all were about that? Yet it is true that he "didn't rape them". Is that the way you deal with rationalizing it?

Everyone seemed to find teams that allowed such things sickening until the player involved put on a Browns uniform.

He was not charged with any crime. I see him as innocent of all charges. Because in this Country a man is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That has not happened. I think the media hates him. I don't think players do.

The physical talent is still clearly there.

We will see how long it takes him to get his composure back. It’s not impossible, since we seen Vick do it, and he actually went to prison.

Yes, 24 women were lying and only watson is the beacon of truth. You do realize that Ben was never convicted of rape either. He also never faced any criminal charges. Yet you called him a rapist. Like I said, it's all about the uniform.

Steelers HC Mike Tomlin was asked about the Steelers poor offensive performance against the Browns defense...

Pittsburgh reporter asks Tomlin “You talked about getting the big play early, then you get the big play late. Coming off the game that you did, is that an okay recipe for you, get a couple of big plays and kind of hang on in between?” a reporter asked.



Mike Tomlin's response to the reporter: “We’re not gonna apologize for winning,” Tomlin said— no further comment.


TRANSLATION: if the Browns offense is so inept and willing to put together a game plan that benefits the Steelers, helping the Steelers WIN THE GAME...Tomlin will smile at Stefanski and the Browns Big Brass and say Thank You, “We’re not gonna apologize for winning,”

The Browns just gave away a game that they should have won...it wasn't the players who called to plays or put together game plan

It looks like the Browns might have fixed defense and it only took a broom to sweep out the bad coaches and leadership that contributed to last seasons POOR DEFENSIVE PERFORMANCE.

Hopefully Haslam holds Stefanski and his staff of analytics experts to the same standard he established on the defensive side after the 2022/2023 season.

Teams that play STUPID FOOTBALL don't win in the NFL...

Not sure how much of this is true - it might all be spot on, it might be speculation that falls wide of the mark. I don't know.

He's made his own bed to a large extent. He did what he did both in terms of refusing to play for HOU and then getting addicted to 'massages' with 100 different 'therapists'. None of that is irredeemable - people have done worse and deserve a second chance. Look at our own Kareem Hunt. Look at how people overlook Jim Brown's troubled history of abuse. With Watson - in my eyes and opinion - he's shown zero remorse. He's shown zero accountabilty. So I would understand neutrals rooting against him and the angst shown to a superstar accused of something like that who then gets handed 250 million bucks gauranteed.

How much of all of that is in his head and causing his playing issues - again, IDK and I think it's just as likely that the fans and analysts who say a deep dive shows Watson was flattered with some of his stats and is who he is largely might just as easily be right.

I do know that when he played against CLE in a bad weather game he was horrendous. I do know a lot of Watson's highlight reel is him scrambling and making a play out of nothing - it's NOT drop back 5 steps and plant and hit a receiver in stride as he makes a cut.

We'll see what he is made of - and Stefanski - because things can and probably will turn ugly. Baker was hated by many for not winning when we had a trash, soft defense that couldn't hold onto a lead. We've now got what looks like a pretty special D if they stay helahty .... we don't need a game winning QB or OC ... we need a little averge, a little competance. It shouldn't be too much to ask for.

.

if the Browns offense is so inept and willing to put together a game plan that benefits the Steelers, helping the Steelers WIN THE GAME...Tomlin will smile at Stefanski and the Browns Big Brass and say Thank You, “We’re not gonna apologize for winning,”


It wasn't the gameplan that lost the game, it was the turnovers. You people kill me

The fans wanted Baker out of town so badly that we ended up with Watson.

Granted, if Baker acted like an adult during contract negotiations, he would still probably be QB1 in CLE.

I've seen enough, I want him out of here.

One thing is for sure. He definitely needs to learn how to stiff arm without grabbing the facemask.

All I know is that Jim Schwartz wouldn't let Watson get a way with his foolishness.

stueby...4 th down, 12 inches to go for a first down on the Pitt 43 yd line...what is the best play call to move the chains?

Is it best to have your QB take a 1yd step backward, away from the line of scrimmage as he reads the pitch man and when the QB sees that the pitch man is covered our QB now finds himself a yd further + the 12 inches he was away from the first down. Calling that play not only gave our QB a longer distance to make the first down but it gave the Pitt defense time to recover and read the play that Stefanski called.

...what might go wrong for the Browns calling an option play when they only needed 12 inches to make the first down..? There might be a fumble...OH WAIT...THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED and in the process of recovering the fumble, the Browns failed to get enough of a gain to make the first down.

Instead of our QB thinking about securing the snap and push ahead a foot or so to get the first down, our QB was forced to secure the snap, step a yd away from the line of scrimmage, read the pitch man and determine if he should pitch the ball or determine that the pitch man is covered, pull the ball back and now attempt to push forward toward the LOS that is now 4 ft away instead of the original 12 inches away from the 1st down.

Stefanski and his gang of analytics experts are just as responsible for that fumble as Watson. Anyone making such a play call...they need to be asked why they took something that should have been a simply play call and made that play 10 times more difficult than it needed to be.

I didn’t get the playcall either.

Pittsburgh was winning at the point of attack between our OL and their DL pretty much all game. You don't sneak it because they'd been getting penetration right up the middle fairly often. Plus, Pocic is a tall (6'6") center which can make it difficult to win leverage in short yardage situations/it's "easy" for defenders to get "under him." Teller can struggle with this at times as well. On the other hand, both have shown the ability to demolish people in space.

Watson just needs to hold onto the ball. But then, his hand was probably mangled from getting caught in facemasks.

It was a number of things, including the gameplan and play calling.

If you have a QB who is struggling with almost every aspect of playing the position, and who is processing at a very slow level, you have to call plays and gameplan to help him speed things up. You call some screen and other quick hit plays to get him going, and to build his confidence.

3 first round picks

so he's currently going scorched earth by blocking tons of CLE social media people ... this seems like deja vu

lots of people do it. He needs to get his confidence back up not further down

$230,000,000 doesn't buy what it used to.

Dude needs to start living up to the hype. He's got this Sunday to do so. Well, he actually has till the end of his contract, which truthfully, right now, can't come soon enough.

No more excuses.... NO MORE EXCUSES! Put up, or get out.

I just saw this as well. Any criticism getting blocked. Better to just go Zero Dark Thirty like Bron Bron. Bad headspace.

And then this from today...distractions.

A win on Sunday will go a long way. A loss....ugh.

exactly Milk ... better to just go dead silent. Nothing gets accomplished doing what he's doing

I gave Watson a bit of a pass last year because he had been out of the league for so long... first game he got a pass because of the weather.... zero pass this week... dude played like crap... he better turn it around against the Titans...

I say this again because with a weak HC who doesn't fully know how to deal with big/cocky/weak/fragile egos there's a high possibility that complex personalites like Watson can become self-destructive if they can't fully manage internal and external expectations.

I can easily see a frozen and in the end a broken relationship between our new franchise QB and those coaches who's trying to hold him accountable and those who internally and externally criticize him too much. I don't think what happened in Houston was a isolated incident and irrational and self destructive behaviors often has a tendency to pop up again when the outside pressure mounts and your own picture of yourself doesn't match up with reality. Typical for talanted artists/musicians/athletes with low self esteem and fragile egoes who're not used to get rejected or to recieve negative critizismn.

Don't come afterwards and say that his history didn't warn us...

Looks like Watson got the money and got fat and happy.

He looks like he is phoning in his performance every week.

He disgusts me.

Chain of events:

Baker struggles - gets hurt - refuses to sit - Stefanski not strong enough to do what's in the team's best interest and sit him - Stefanski and Baker relationship degredates to the point of zero trust (that'd happen if you put your rookie 3rd strong RT 1 on 1 with TJ Watt in the last game of the season to 'protect' your injured QB - end of season announcements declare Baker is our guy but behind the sceenes Berry/Stefanski scrambling for a new QB - Watson appears to become available, he's an analytics guy's wet dream (anyone remember all those stats where Watson was alledgedly top 1-2-3 in the NFL during a season at HOU?) - I believe Berry sells Watson hard to Haslam, Haslam then makes his mind up to go hard for Watson - Watson says hell no to playing in cold and bad weather CLE - Haslam meets with Baker and petulant Baker pisses Haslam off enough to have Haslam tell Berry to do 'anything' to sign Watson. Ergo biggest and only fully gauranteed 5 years deal signed 230 Million.... So much positive PR about how Stefanski and Watson talked X's and O's and Stefanski was blown away with Watson's football knowledge and passion, Watson loving Stefanski's offensive philosiphies. . . . then all the bad press and more and more bad news and cases of allegations. The 11 game ban. The crap play on return. The whole offseason of more PR Spin about how amazing Watson is, how his passes just look different in training camp .... and then preseason which is more Poop. Then game 1 which was more Poop in constant drizzle/rain. The one of the worst performances by a QB I have ever seen by the time you throw in face masks, official shoving, and losing to a team in the 4th Q when you had a lead and your defense shut them down ....

I don't know that Watson is fat and happy. I actually think he's put the work in. I just think his time was 4 years ago and he ain't ever going to get close to that one season in HOU. CLE is left with a ridiculous contract for a well below average QB. The decision to move on from Baker was the right one given the relationship and Baker's immaturity. But there were other options that wouldn't set the team back 8-10 years.

Not sure why my mind went to the whole sequence when I saw your post saying he's fat and happy.... but there it is. my 2 cents in a paragraph and change.

Two games into the season and the press are mighty ugly about Watson. He and Stefanski best right the ship this week before the protests start outside the stadium.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/browns-sold-souls-sign-deshaun-074542871.html

and missing wide open receivers, not seeing the field, and playing like a backup QB

Remember when we discussed "character matters"?

Back when we picked Watson up, I and many others commented on how Character Matters... Well, lookey here, He doesn't want Cleveland then Cleveland dangles a $230 million guaranteed contract in front of him and he says, yeah, I'll take Cleveland...

Then he gets the money and when he finally gets to play, stinks the place up. But, he hadn't played in a while so give him a full camp and let's see how he does...

OK,, Full camp, gets his start, one helluva Defense to support him and what do we have? Now the excuse is, hey, it's early,, give him a few more starts.

Nobody would be happier than I if he returns to probowl status.

I just am not seeing it.

DW played poorly. It is that simple. He didn't protect the ball. He didn't come through with the game on the line.
He didn't act like a leader should. The face mask plays were inexcusable.

The Steelers defense deserves some credit. They were coached to knock the ball out and they did. They applied pressure all game. They never gave up on plays. The Steelers are a good defensive team.

All of the above does not mean "the end is near." There are fifteen games to play.

All the questions about DW will be answered as those games are played.

Who is responsible for getting his QB prepared for a game..?

That responsibility falls on Kevin Stefanski...

It was Kevin who called the option play that failed to get the 1st down when the offense needed only 12 INCHES for the first down.

What kind of Browns coach makes that play call..?

No doubt about the fact that it was Kevin Stefanski who called the failed TRIPLE OPTION PLAY ON 4th down and 12 inches to go for a 1st down.

Shouldn't Stefanski be held responsible for his poor offensive game plan..?

I can’t find any other explanation than he hasn’t properly taking care of his body and that all his previous dodgy activities is starting to catch up to his consciousness with related symptoms like keeping concentration and focus.

Who is the Browns/Watson's QB coach..?

Anyone know..?

I've often thought the same thing. A individual's personality does not change much. Watson needs to stop thinking of himself and put the team first. We need better ball security, avoid the sideline fighting, the stupid facemask calls, get the ball out quick and stop looking for big chunk plays, your deep pass is not accurate. I want to see less selfish game Sunday. Go BROWNS!

Cleats...Who does Watson answer to...who is his QB COACH..?

DePodesta.

memp...given the play of Watson so far this season, your answer makes perfect sense...

If your pass catchers don't make plays, the QB will look bad. Turnovers killed us. It started on the first pass. Bryant has gotta catch that ball. If he's not going to, he shouldn't be on the field.

It's hard to avoid the sense of inevitable doom when you take a metaphorical gut punch right away and the hits just keep on coming. Especially with the weight of history, particularly with this team and in that building. It has the opposite effect on the other side. They can feed off of it. We got the life sucked out of us and they got pumped up.

If Bryant catches that ball, who knows how it changes the complexion of the game. That's football, though. Things can turn on one play.

Having said that, It wasn't just one thing that caused us to lose. It was a lot of mistakes by a lot of different people that need to get cleaned up.

I feel somewhat better after watching the all-22. Watson did have some nice throws. The facemasks and fumbles we've got to get rid of, but I don't think he's a lost cause.

Talking heads after the game said Watson wasn't seeing wide open WRs all night, was that your experience watching the 22?

Might still be Quincy Avery...not real sure.

My humble advice to our HC would be to start to realize who's he dealing with and hopefully starts readjust his next game plan to todays version of DSW who's a bad and slow copy of the QB we saw in Houston.

My fear is Watson is going to have a great game

But not for the Browns

Vrabel puts D Hop on defense

Watson sees his favorite target

D hop with six picks

Three of them for TDs

Yet he actually HAD the 1st down until HE fumbled it. But in your desperation you blame the HC because watson fumbled. The play worked. Dear Lord man.

That's not good.....

And so it begins......

Not really. Well, I guess kind of, but blaming him seems rather harsh. We had some guys open at times that he didn't hit, but he was generally running for his life in the opposite direction or had someone right in his lap where he couldn't step up, follow through, or probably see around very well.

I think we gameplanned with the idea of easing in Jones at RT and giving him lots of help. Unfortunately, this kind of played to the Steelers strengths and let them keep more LBs/big guys on the field, and they really packed in the middle of the field and had lots of pre-snap movement to disguise what they were doing. The worst part is Jones didn't really seem to need it for the most part. Yes he got "beat around the edge" for a sack, but if there had been a pocket for Watson to step up into, he could quite possibly have been pushed past. On the other hand, Bryant was getting bullrushed back into Watson's lap whenever he was supposed to help. We even had DPJ lined up in tight over Watt to block him at times which went about as well as you'd expect. We used Dunn as a 6th OL a fair bit which again, let them keep more big bodies on the field and increased the probability that one of them would beat their blocker. We also had fewer guys going out on routes which made defensive breakdowns in the secondary less likely, and we didn't really even have a chance to test their (lack of) secondary depth.

We also were backed up a lot inside of our own ten. That may very well have contributed some to the conservativeness. Turnovers also kept short circuiting drives, so it was difficult to get any rhythm going and open things up. There were a few drops (and some PBUs/contested catches that likely could/should have been made) that also didn't help.

Watson did miss some passes. All QBs do. When he had time and guys were open, he generally seemed to get it to them. Unfortunately, both of those things happening at the same time didn't happen a ton.

Unfortunately, the idea that teams play like they practice applies and we kind of looked like we weren't used to (perhaps, the threat of) getting hit and holding onto the ball and/or getting hit from unexpected angles.

LOL, surely no one in their right mind believed Watson would take any responsibility for his play, did you? He's still living in his past and that he's an Elite QB. Unfortunately for him, the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. Hopefully, the team and Watson get on track very soon. If not, you can expect Watson, his personal QB Coach, and probably his mommy to start taking some serious press shots at Stefanski. It has started already this week with his personal QB Coach - I would expect the wheels will fall off the relationship if another loss occurs this week. "Book em Danno"

I think it's actually pretty pointless to comp the two QB's at the moment - two wildly different teams and wildly different opponents.

With that said - freeze the video at 40 seconds. Remember all those videos people put together showing the amazing separation our WR's got with Stefanski's scheme and how it was the former QB that couldn't make the plays? Well at 40 seconds we have good separation of the two receivers in the screen - at least a yard. Maybe a yard and a half. Now in a former life and former QB - the QB would have been blamed for not hitting either guy, this year I've seen multiple comments about Bryant not running the right route so it wasn't Watson's fault ... but reality is we don't know who is at fault here.

Only other observation (and maybe a more important question?) and again a throw back to comments I remember at one time about Stefanski and his offense --- criticism (**Maybe it was MNF and the Mannings? - Maybe a talking head on TVC or radio) talking about how close together all the Browns receivers are when they run their routes. A criticism about congestion, being able to clear out routes or RAC, the fact that in a tip ball situation if you have multiple defenders in close proximity to a battted/tipped ball, bad things happen. Well I've noticed it a few tims since but again in the clip at 40 seconds you can see two recievers not 3 yards apart at the same depth on the field and they both seem to have made a cut and are looking back for the ball - it's not like one is on a streak and the other a hook, or one a slant and the other an out. I don't look out for it on other teams particularly but I don't **think that I see this??

I didn't see that his personal QB coach took any personal shot at Stefanski other than some reach of gigantic proportions some have taken to invent one.

But no, given how he acted in Houston as it pertains to him thinking he should have a say in naming the HC and GM after a 4-12 season, I don't expect him to take responsibility other than in post game press conferences where that's what he's supposed to do. Outside of that I expect to see exactly what I saw above in that Tweet. Nothing could have pleased me more than to have been wrong about watson when he came here. But thus far I'm seeing exactly what I had expected. Hopefully that will change moving forward.

2 games into the season and the blame game is in full force. I wonder whose Dad is going to come out next?

Browns is the Browns

j/c...

Here's Watson "not taking responsibility", for anyone that wants to avoid the peanut gallery and read for themselves:

Watched that play again.

Anyone that thinks the pick-6 is anyone's fault other than Bryant is nuts. Not only did he not catch a very catchable ball, but he tipped it up in the air. He did the exact same thing in the second half at around the same part of the field (likely was just incomplete). This is not a defense of Watson's game, merely an observation while watching 1 play.

Yep. Talking out both sides of his mouth. As I said, that's what I expect him to say in post game press conferences. Sadly you'll hear the opposite of that from him as well as we can see by the twitter post above.

To be fair, blocking CLE social media people is probably the smart move for any athlete, in general.

cleveland sports media is real close to the worst in the country, and by media, I'm talking about writers like MKC, the radio guys are excluded because Jim is a national treasure. He's to the Browns like Tait/mcleod was to the cavs and Hammy to the tribe.

I take it you haven't followed sports media in other NFL, NBA and MLB markets. The Cleveland sports media doesn't hold a candle to being "close to the worst in the country".

Why don't you post the whole interview so we have more context than a one-liner on Twitter.

Because it in no way changes the context of what he said.

He lost his composure (his own fault) and is just in a defensive position. Could be guilt, anything. There’s never one reason why anybody does/feels some type of way.

But he’s gotta find a way to get his confidence back. I know for sure I haven’t seen anything that has me questioning his effort, so gaining confidence back is tough, but doable. Two home games coming up, friendly home field (for now), and the Kareem resigning takes a tad bit of attention off him, especially if Kareem can take over the crowd early on Sunday.

But that’s the hard part that no amount of money can buy: rebuilding yourself in the public eye. Again, his own fault, but if we want the browns to win, we need him to get it together.

The talent is still there. He still has it, just need that mentality back.

"not being on the same page"


Please explain how it is possible, by any force in the universe, for an entire interview to not provide context to five words being snipped out of a sentence.

This should be good.

Everything you just said appears to be truth. What you didn't say is that overall, our D held their O to less than our O put on the board. This was ALL on the O and mostly on Watson. JMO

Try reading this slowly. That may help. After first accepting the blame he then spread it around. Now who is exactly that's responsible for getting the offensive uiit on "the same page"? Whose fault would it be that the offense isn't game ready and be on the same page come game time?

This should be good.

Does Watson deserve a healthy chunk of blame? Yes. The facemask penalties and short yardage fumble are on him. Did he miss some passes? Yes.

He can't catch the ball for other guys or do anything to prevent them from fumbling, though. He can't prevent Jed from completely whiffing on blocks. He can't throw perfect on time passes when the timing is disrupted by pressure in his face nearly instantly.

I'm not sure if the Steelers predicted what we would do better than we predicted what they would do or if our gameplan was just trying to cover up a potential weakness rather than playing to our strengths or what. I was not a fan of the personnel groupings we went with on O. Its almost like we had guys playing with one hand tied behind their backs. We were having everybody helping everybody in the blocking game instead of just giving more options for getting the ball out quick and spreading things out to simplify reads. Giving help sounds great, but if everyone isn't on the same page it ends badly... and it did... repeatedly.

Got it. He's not allowed to say he and his teammates weren't on the same page or it's him pointing fingers and not taking responsibility.

Funny how that's one of the most common phrases across thousands of interviews and it's usually taken with a grain of salt.

But here, supposedly, we have Watson intentionally scapegoating his teammates to escape responsibility for something he's already vehemently accepted blame for.

The defense has been outstanding.

DW has to protect the ball and play better. He has been part of developing the offense according to all the reports in the off season.

It is not like KS is saying play my way or leave. KS has been a guy to play to the players skills.

I saw things I disliked no doubt. I am not a Harrison Bryant fan. I have no idea why he was solo blocking TJ.

I hated the first play even if he would have caught it. It was a going nowhere play.

It was a bad day. Everyone wants to blame someone. It is understandable that the QB is going to be blamed when the offense fails.
DW played poorly and deserves to be blamed. But others do as well.

If DW does not improve the team will fail. His poor play lost that game. Turnovers are a sure way to lose.

What is upsetting is not only did he turn it over but his lack of leadership. The face mask grabbing was immature and he did it twice.
He lacked composure under pressure. His reputation as a player was one of delivering in the clutch. He was the opposite of that.

It's not his teammates responsibility to have the team ready, prepared and on the same page come game day. But hey, you're getting closer.

I think you only need to look back at last season when the defense said they were confused and not on the same page to see who that blame ends up falling on.

I have faith in you that you can figure that out.

You do understand what a disclaimer is don't you? It was my fault with the exception we weren't all on the same page.

And once again, who would that responsibility fall on.

I watched the game live, but I haven't gone back and looked (and I won't... nothing could motivate me to rewatch that game).

I felt he (Watson) was hesitant and indecisive. He seemed like he either wasn't comfortable in the offense, comfortable with his receivers, not trusting what he was seeing, or a combo. I specifically remember 3 plays where his hesitation was responsible for not hitting on big plays.
I also felt like the interior of our line was unusually porous. I felt those 3 guys' names were being called a LOT more frequently than what I'm used to hearing.


Pittsburgh is a well-coached defense. They don't have superstars after Watt and Minkah, but most of their front 7 are at least average. You put all your focus on a guy like Watt and give those guys an opening that they should be able to hit home (it's what they've been saying about everyone we've brought in opposite Garrett).

Watching the all-22 was actually a bit cathartic for me. Not sure watching a replay with commentary would be the same.

Watson wasn’t playing a little bad, he was woefully bad and has been since he’s been here. I’m sick of people making excuses for him. He’s a low character poor quality QB at this point. I’m not saying we can’t fix the play, but I have a feeling the character is set in stone. Never should have been given a chance to play again after all those women. Just my opinion, based on what I’ve seen and heard from him.

He's a $230 million dollar former probowl QB who can't get his TEAM on the same page., Got it

Who cares what Watson says and doesn't say? None of that changes the fact that he's not good. Receivers were running wide open all game. He just had no idea what to do. Who wants to roll the dice that it will improve?

This team is ready to win now. I think for the first time since '99 this defense is legit. It sucks to be held back by poor QB play. Not just poor QB play but a net negative actually being responsible for losses.

The best we can hope for is a tweaked hammy! We have a good QB on the roster. Free DTR!

Actually, to date, Watson has been paid approximately $91,047,058 for the 8 games played or $10,755,822 (minus the 5M NFL fine) per game played thus far and can't get his team on the same page - PRICELESS!

To put that in perspective, $10,755,822 pocketed for that singular stellar performance on the national stage of Monday Night Football - MORE THAN PRICELESS!

The math: 2022 immediate payout for the restructure: $44,965,000, 2022 salary: $1,035,000, 2022 Fine: -$5,000,000, 2023 immediate payout for the restructure: $44,920,000, 2023 salary: $1,080,000/17 games = $63,529.41 x 2 games = $127,058.82 for a grand total of $86,047,058 already paid for the 8 games played or $10,755,882 per game.

Great gig if you can get it,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So that means he's not taking responsibility and blaming his teammates?

Were they? Did you watch the all-22 or are there a bunch of incriminating clips on Twitter?

That's an interesting way to frame it. He's also being paid for future games. That's how signing bonuses work.

Of course, that's understood but the money he has been paid (already in his pocket) for the number of games he's played makes his performance to date even more sickening. His per game cost will decrease as each week passes but as of today, he's been paid over 10.77M for each of those 8 games and his performance has been bottom 5 in the league. That's a far cry from top 5 elite as demonstrated by his performance on the field.

Thank God we don't have to give our defense 8 plus games to get up to speed.

Defend him if you must, hes still a guy that's getting paid to do a job and part of that is getting his teammates on the same damn page. He's completely unsuccessful at that.. By is own admission.

I tend to agree with everyone who says he's an abject failure at this point. I was willing to be patient a few games last year, but I was pretty concerned at the end of the year when he was still pretty bad.

And he's looked WORSE this season ... not accurate, can't read a defense, lost a step, getting personal fouls, turning it over. He's a bottom 5 QB right now. It sucks.

Yes! (It's usually twelve)

Thanks for making my point!

I think we changed "scripts" significantly when Conklin went down. Jones is doing admirably individually, but the communication on the OL is decidedly a work in progress. Trying to work in a rookie at the last minute is rough, particularly on the OL. It's not really like a QB gaining chemistry with his receivers. Those can be more individual so you can roll guys through. While each route has to fit together schematically, ultimately each receiver isn't reliant on another receiver to know which route to run. The OL has to be a cohesive unit and they all have to more or less "mind-meld." They can't just "run their routes," OL have to adjust for what the defense is throwing at them on the fly every play. I think some of Teller's struggles were from being used to having Conklin's help and knowing that there'd be help with certain things. Jones was understandably focused on blocking TJ Watt. Throw in Wills struggling more than usual and it puts a QB (and OC/team in general) in a tough spot.

Frequently, when an OL is struggling, the QB is struggling. I'm not sure if there is a quick fix with OL cohesion. I think spreading out and getting guys out of the box can simplify things for the OL and Watson potentially. The more moving parts (blockers and defenders across from those blockers) something has, the more potential there is for one of the linkages to break down. Going 6 OL and 2 TEs had a lot of breakdowns and exploited (by them) mismatches (i.e, Watt bullying Bryant.)

The Steeler game was one of those games when things go wrong. It tends to snowball.

The easy way to lose a game that you should win is turnovers. Objectively that is the reason for the loss.

DW had a bad game and there is no sugar coating it.

However, IMO that does not mean this offense cannot succeed. I don't want to go overboard at this point. I am beginning to doubt DW.

But he is the quarterback and I have seen quarterbacks play good and bad.

The problem is a few of you aren't making any points. His play has been putrid and his disclaimer in all of that is that they aren't on the same page, which is the responsibility of the HC. Somehow you think that's everyone elses fault for pointing it out. Nobody is seriously climbing down into that rabbit hole with you.

1. Both Burns and Cosell have stuff on it.
2. Watch the game and watch the replays with a focus on the receivers.
3. Common sense. Occasionally in the NFL there will be a handful of plays in a game where receivers aren't open. But not entire games. That defies logic.

I watched Quincy Carrier's DeShaun Watson tape breaking down every pass thrown in the Steelers game.

He was late on quite a few throws. Just a split second but that is all it takes for the defenders in this league to break on the ball and break up passes. He seems hesitate and lacks confidence with throws down the middle of the field. His sideline passes are much more accurate and on time that over the middle.

Now as far as receivers running wide open. That is only half the story. There were receivers breaking open on throws were the Oline had breakdowns and caused him to check down, take a sack, or scramble. Wyatt Tellar struggled mightily and caused pressure up the middle which gives most QB's fits. It was shown time and time again on film. There is no denying that.

On the first play of the game pick 6. The Steelers got a hand at the line of scrimmage on the pass that caused the pass to change direction. Probably caused Harrison Bryant to not catch the ball. It is very tough for receivers to catch balls that are deflected and change flight patterns. The int should have never happened though but Jordan Akins did not run a full route to the 35-yard line and stopped at the 30 where the ball came off Bryant's hands. Akins defender on the play tipped the ball that came off Bryant's hands and the defender playing Bryant Highsmith then picked it off. Had Akins ran his route no one would have been there to deflect the ball off Bryant's hands and cause the INT.

The fumbled ball was all on Watson. The play was set for him to take 3 steps and fire or tuck it and run. He held the ball and Highsmith hit him and he fumbled.

Watson has been late with his passes over the middle and not as accurate with his throws over the middle. So far not showing the same level of confidence in those throws' vs the sideline throws that have been on time and accurate. That needs to improve. He is holding balls longer than he should. The decision to tuck and run when the throw is not there is not happening fast enough. Those 2 areas Watson must improve.

The Oline has been much better run blocking than pass blocking, and the pressure Watson has felt can be improved and I believe every member of the Oline would say the same. Vs the Steelers most of the pressure came thru Wyatt Tellar and not Wills. Wills struggled in first game vs Hendrickson.

Our receivers are not yet in mid-season form and could run better routes. Especially, Akins and Ford.

The QB gets most of the blame when the team plays bad and too much credit when they play well. I expect to see Watson play better and alot of that will be improvement with Oline and routes being ran by new players. When he starts to sthrow with the same level of confidence over the kiddle of the field he is throwing the sideline routes then this offense will really start clicking.

I am a fan of Quincy. I watch him daily and usually comment.

Q is a good guy. It is weird how much he reminds me of one my best friends who passed away four years ago. Q is younger but his voice and what he says are eerily close.

It was one of those games that lots went wrong and we lost a very winnable game.

I am no fortune teller. I don't know what will happen other than things can change over a season.

1. Post links or tell me what/where to search, please.
2. I can't, I'll throw up... still going through my stages of grief.
3. The other side of common sense is the ALL QBs miss open receivers every week. I'm interest in the 4 W's and time of game (the OL was whipped by halftime, I actually called they asses elves).

Watson has sucked and nobody's saying he didn't. No need to make up lies that he hasn't accepted responsibility, which he did in a public forum. I didn't see where he said it was the coaches fault they weren't on the same page. With your peculiar dot connecting skills, you could just as easily say he was assigning blame to himself.

That would not fit his agenda!!!

Please explain to me whose responsibility it is to get the team working on the same page for game days? Not by playing connect the dots because that isn't needed here. Not by trying to deflect. You can huff and puff all you like but trying to pretend this isn't claiming that "the biggest issue" is that they are not prepared to work as a team on game day and that that goal isn't the sole responsibility of the HC is trying to ignore the obvious in what he is saying there. You can pretend otherwise all you like. You can blame me for what he said if that somehow makes you feel better. But that doesn't change anything.

Aw. Since when is the truth suddenly an agenda?

1. From this year or last year? I haven't seen much from this year yet.
2. I have multiple times. I'm not seeing receivers running open that he's missing. When they're open, he's getting the ball out to someone. Pass catchers are not always hanging on or getting their feet down. Near misses like that happen to every QB. Plays could have been made. He did miss a throw behind Strong who's not been here very long. I doubt Strong would be in there if Chubb hadn't gone down. Watson did sail the ball out of bounds at the end of the 2nd to last drive (with Watt at his feet) after getting pounded the previous play (where the LB tackled DPJ while Watson was in the "pocket"). Watson had a nice hole shot to Moore on the last drive to convert a first down after a false start put us behind the chains. He was pressured (quickly) the next 3 plays. It ended on an attempted back shoulder where Porter interfered with DPJ so he couldn't come back to the ball. Turnovers and penalties (on us and uncalled on them) killed us. Throw in a missed field goal. Everything that could go wrong went wrong in that game, and a lot of it wasn't Watson.
3. When the receivers were open, he threw it to them. There weren't any blown coverages to take advantage of, which a lot of people are making it sound like. Every time we started to get something going, there'd be a turn over or a penalty or a missed kick.

I found the actual PC on clevelandbrowns.com. The question starts at :46

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/video/deshaun-watson-every-week-is-a-new-challenge-in-the-nfl

Here's the transcript, if you don't want to watch the vid...



Man, it's a serious (if not impossible) stretch to take all that and say it's Deshaun not taking responsibility and pointing the finger at others.

I see you are still avoiding what he claimed the biggest problem was and whose shoulders that responsibility falls on. I'm not saying he isn't taking "some of the responsibility" because he is. But what he is also doing is claiming the biggest problem falls on the shoulders of someone else. The two are not mutually exclusive of one another. He did both at the same time.

Dot connecting, expert mode.

Speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I've seen a few people say this, and I'm not sure where it's coming from. It was a play action pass. Why Stefanski thought that was a good place to go play action, I am really not sure. Maybe he'd done something to try to set it up. Unfortunately, the Steelers knew it was a pass and didn't play the fake at all. Jake Burns talks about it on one of the OBR podcasts. (link) It seems Watson and the line adjusted the protection which isn't something that happens during a run play which tipped Pitt off. Perhaps in the future we can fake a similar situation and actually run the ball instead. It wasn't necessarily the play call or design that was bad or gave play action away, but the way they happened to be aligned to defend the formation caused an adjustment which gave it away.

That's a new one for me. I don't know. It just kind of felt like every random thing that could go wrong did Monday night.

As expected, nothing of substance that disputes any point I made. Typical.

So blind you can't see the forest for the trees. Expert Mode! Maybe a better explanation would be you are pretending there's no forest there in the first place.

You guys sure do a lot of finger pointing to try and dance around what he said.

Except your point isn't really valid. He never claimed the biggest problem fell on someone else. You are making that claim for him. He repeatedly said to put the blame on him. You trying to put words in someone else's mouth, typical.

Seriously, did you read anything past the original snippet?

Yes I did. Not having your team prepared to be on the same page on game day rests on the HC. Once again, taking some responsibility while casting some of it on the HC is not mutually exclusive.

Either he did or he did not claim not being on the same page was a problem. He obviously did. It seems your only qualm is the term "biggest". Everyone knows, while they aren't willing to admit it obviously, that having the team on the same page on game day is the responsibility of the HC. Semantics doesn't change that.

So, we've gone from "And so it begins" responding to five words in a Tweet...

To: He's not taking responsibility
To: He's talking out both sides of his mouth
To: The entire answer to the question means nothing -- only the five words "not on the same page".
To: It's not his teammates responsibility to be on the same page.
To: Watson said it's "the biggest issue". (He never said anything of the sort, he was asked and responded to "what is your biggest issue" and mentions no teammates).
To: Well, he must be throwing Stefanski under the bus then.

Now everyone else is crazy and "can't see the forest for the trees".

He's certainly not taking all the responsibility which is what some of the assertions you and a few others on your crew have claimed. Once again, you ignore what he said because it in no way supports the empty argument you are trying to make. Please point out where I ever claimed he wasn't taking any of the responsibility. I'll wait. The ENTIRE answer means something, not just parts of it. And it appears you are still in denial about whose responsibility it is to have the team prepared and playing on the same page. Part of his answer was putting some of the blame on Stefanski. But pleas, do go on.

Let me try to help you out here. At this juncture the best argument you could be making is to claim that it was partly Stefanski's fault and watson is simply telling the truth. That may be far more accurate than the lost path you have been taking so far.

Having everybody on the same page takes everybody. Watson included himself in that everybody. He didn't single anybody out and blame them, only himself.

You're trying to create an issue that isn't there. How much responsibility can he take for other people's responsibilities? He took all the responsibility that it is humanly possible to take. Other people are responsible for their responsibilities. It's a fact. He didn't call anyone out. He pointed to his part in the shared responsibilities while answering a direct question. Being on the same page is a collective effort that happens to include Watson. It was clearly an issue, and he owned his part in it.

You seem to be once again trying to twist and cherry pick words to fit an agenda.

I'll ask you yet again, whose responsibility is it to have the team ready to perform and have their players on the same page come game day? Nobody has to name someone or openly "throw anyone under the bus" for people to understand this. What some of you seem to be doing is ignoring what those words mean to promote your agenda.

As I said, I can see some merit in how an argument could be made that Stefanksi was responsible for not having the team on the same page. After all, having a game plan and having the players on the same page on game day is his responsibility. But we all know that. With the exception of a chosen few that seem to indicate by attempting to try to gloss over that to make me the culprit for the fact watson said it.

See, that's where you and some others argument falls short. In fact your own post points that out.


And you are correct.

That's why he pointed out that the team wasn't on the same page come game time. That part wasn't his fault at all. But anyone being honest knows exactly whose responsibility for making that happen is.

And once again zero substance in your feeble attempt to attack the messenger. Same as it ever was. But when facts get in your way, that's all you're left with.

It's not Stefanski's responsibility alone as you keep trying to indicate. It's everybody's responsibility. Every single player and person associated with the team has to take ownership of his or her part of it. Stefanski can't take care of other people's responsibilities any more than Watson can. He can give them the "tools" but he can't do it for them. Each person has to take care of their part of it. Watson took the blame for his part of it.

I see you're still in denial of whose job it is to have the team ready and on the same page when game day arrives. Watson did take the blame for his part of it. he also made it known in the very next breath that the team wasn't ready to work as a unit. But let me ask you something. Is it your contention that all of these multiple players weren't on the same page because of their own doing? Because that seems to be the argument you are now trying to make. You do understand that seems a very unlikely scenario, right? It seems like quite a reach for you to head in the direction that all of those players who have found success working as a team and being on the same page with other HC's be it in college or in the pro's, suddenly can't get on the same page with the Browns besides something other than themselves being the mitigating factor here.

If these players lacked the ability to learn a system and being on the same page as their teammates they would not have been successful enough to still be playing in the NFL. Stefanski has the responsibility to have these guys who have proven in the past they can play as a team member and be able to play on the same page as their teammates to do it for the browns on game day. Or did multiple players simply forget how to do that?

"It's just we're seeing different defenses that we've seen in the past," Mahomes said after Sunday's loss. "We have a lot of stuff, we read coverages and run routes to different spots and we're just not on that same page."

#cancer


“Just not being on the same page with the guys we’re throwing to,” Rodgers said when asked about the perpetual struggles.

#toomuchayahuasca


Tom Brady: “There were too many plays that we were not on the same page and we all were not seeing it the same way,”

#crappycoach

When players go down, you have to adjust. Conklin went down week 1, then Chubb went down. Those are big parts of the offense. They'll have to adjust. Its not instantly going to be perfect while working in less experienced players. They have to get on the same page. It's not just replacing the individual players that were lost, its "re-learning" the interaction of every situation between every other player and the replacements. Sometimes those replacements require you to help in entirely new ways. It will take some time to figure out. Hopefully the rest of the Steelers game took care of a decent chunk of that. They all have their work cut out for them on a short week.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...-sooner-or-later-its-going-to-click.html

Here.

I've seen this movie before. I don't think Watson is going to improve.

I think Stefanski can succeed with a pocket passer. That's what his offense needs. Guys are open or they are available to be thrown open if the QB understands what he's looking at. He needs a guy who can drop back, plant, fire. That's not Watson. We basically need a more dynamic version of Baker/Brissett.

If Watson continues to play like he is, this team doesn't have the culture, backbone, or leaders to prevent a meltdown. For years the Steelers and Ravens would trot out subpar offenses and top 5 defenses and ride that formula to the playoffs. The defense was ok with putting that on their shoulders. They were ok with being on the field for 40 min/game. That's not the Browns. The Browns are a 'hang your head and give up' team when things aren't going well all the way around. And if Watson doesn't improve thats where the team is headed. And that would be another year of wasted talent.

There's a QB on the roster who will perform better than Watson. Just have to figure out how to get him on the field.

Q is a true fan and knowledgeable analyst.

This is the 2nd QB the Browns have given Stefanski to run his offense and now FATE suggests that the Browns just need to Stefanski a better QB to run his offense.

Folks, you ever think about the possibility that Stefanski isn't cut out to be a QB coach and HIS OFFENSIVE SCHEME STINKS?

You ever hear of a good offensive coordinator shaping the teams offense around his QB or shaping the offense according to the talent the coaches have to work with...

If Stefanski can't get Watson and the vaunted 'Stefanski offense' to produce, Stefanski needs to be relieved of his duties as OC and Alex Van Pelt should take over the offensive side of the ball.

KS cannot play for DW.

Pretty simple really. He needs to play better. KS did run the offense through the skills of the quarterbacks that have played for him.

He did it with Cousins, Baker, and Jacoby.

I didn't attend practice. However, the reports all off season were that the offense was going to be based upon what DW likes and what he does best. DW was heavily involved in play design.

Offensive plays succeed when the entire offense executes the play. The pick six to open the game. The ball was tipped at the line and Bryant did not secure the ball.

If protection breaks down DW was traded for what he can do with his legs and arm. Make a play. Extend the play and complete a throw or run.

When he runs. He has to protect the ball.

DW knows he has to play better.

And that's it in a nutshell. DW knows what he has to do; play better. He's done it before he isn't injured or too old. He should be able to do it.

We're going to find out if things continue to go bad. If things turn the corner, winning cures everything. But if things continue on this downward spiral, we'll find out how this plays out. Just remember, watson got so frustrated with losing in Houston he wanted control over naming the coach and GM. His frustration ended up with his refusal to play and sitting out. So the best some of you can hope for is a new and improved watson not only on a player level, but from a personality and character level as well if things continue to spiral. An indication were those two egregious face mask calls unless you don't believe those weren't an indication of anything either.

And how soon you forget where comments such as these ended up leading last season on the D side of the ball when a player said there was confusion in communication. It's odd how at that time fans knew what was being said and about who, but now suddenly they forgot about all of that. Chubb and Conklin getting hurt doesn't change the communication between the QB and the WR's/TE's.

Unless things change and the O starts producing well, we'll soon find out who ends up pointing the finger at who.

Yes, those QB's came from teams with unproven HC's. Those QB's played for teams known to be under performing. Those QB's played for teams who had signed a high priced QB that couldn't do much of anything for 8 straight games. Context means everything and you pretend it makes no difference. It just goes to show how desperate you are to make a point that simply doesn't exists here.

Stefanski did attempt to shape the offense around Watson, which looks to have meant just running more shotgun and designed runs. Pass concepts all appear to be the same as previous years. I think it was hard to tell for the coaching staff that this wouldn't work in training camp because they don't do a lot of hard practicing in training camp and the starters hardly play in preseason games. I think Stefanski started to figure out it might not be working which is why he played the starters in game 3 but it was too little too late. I think he went into the regular season crossing his fingers and hoping for the best.

The offense can produce points and guys are open. It's not a terribly creative offense. Execution is rhe main issue though. But Stefanski should have given up playcalling duties two seasons ago. It's kind of funny that he admits things are wrong with the team and replaces coaches but just not him. It's everyone else that isn't doing a good job. I think he sees it as purely an execution issue so he can't be to blame. He sees his offense working and the players just aren't doing it right. Meanwhile, he just can't seem to stack wins, no one really considers hin a great coach, and his record declines year after year. All this while having uber talented teams.

I don't think Stefanski is an ego maniac. I think he's inexperienced. There is no replacement for experience. And no one above him is forcing his hand because they are all inexperienced as well. in the grand scheme of things the best you can describe him is average to below average. I think that's the way NFL insiders, knowledgeable nfl people, hard-core fans, and casual fans across the board would describe him. Sometimes it is the obvious answer and the masses get it right.

So we are stuck with him and stuck with Watson. We'll continue to trot out 12 win talent and end up on 7-11.

That's where we are.

Unless.....


Tweaked hammy! Free DTR!

Did you forget about this little gem? According to what the public was being told they worked together to build this offense. It was a collaborate effort, remember?

Designing a game plan to "protect" the OL makes things harder on the QB. Yet, when replacing a veteran OL with a mid round rookie in his first start and he'll be facing TJ Watt, it's a natural reaction.

Hopefully they go back to the plans they had and practiced all off-season. Monday night wasn't that, and a ridiculous amount of things went wrong that were unrelated to the scheme.

I'm at the point where if I'm Haslem, I'm hiring some private investigators to keep tabs on DW and dig up any dirt on him to try to void the contract.

Okay I'll admit after 8 games DW has been average at best. The last game was very winnable and as we all know we lost because of turnovers the first not being his fault. I still believe DW will get better. I still believe our O is better with DW than Baker because DW is a better athlete more skilled with a stronger arm that opposing DC have to prepare harder for. I have nothing against Baker. I liked him and hoped he did well here and was our QB for the next 10 years. He wasn't and we have what we have. Again, I believe DW will get better and our O will improve. JMO

Hopefully "feelings and beliefs" will win out in this case. Thus far that hasn't worked after 8 games.

I don't think there is a Cleveland Browns fan that did not feel that we could win that game.

Expectations were soaring. So, the first play happens. The crowd goes crazy smelling blood.

Then Nick is on a stretcher. All those emotions are raw and flowing.

DW fumbles and they score again.

DW grabs a face mask twice. He fails down four points with time on the clock to win the game.

A four point game with two turnovers that gave the Steelers 14 points.

The reactions are exactly what you would expect.

Every fan wants someone to blame for a horrible game that we expected to win.

The season will play out. We either get it together or a lot of folks are going to be angry.

Agreed bone and another issue that's not being discussed much is the PI that was not called on our last play. The ref was standing right there and didn't call it. I'm not saying we lost because of it but it should have been called and at least would have given us another few plays. You can bet it would have been called if it was the other way around!

Quarterbacks. Look at what was given in trade to get Wilson, Watson, and Trey Lance.

Look at the Rams trade for Stafford now.

The Bears drafted Trubisky and then Fields. How has that worked? Rodgers? How has Kyle Murray worked out. Sam Darnold. Baker.

Quarterback graveyard.

When one looks at the history of quarterbacks in the NFL. One thing is clear.

Like Forrest said "quarterbacks are like a box of chocolates; ya never know what you are going to get."

I'm pretty sure the ref felt that was an uncatchable ball. Which it was. If he had been open by ten yards there's no way he could have caught that ball in bounds. When a ball is deemed uncatchable they don't make that call.

Maybe paying a kings ransom for all of those previous FA QB's that flopped should have been a clue. It's bad enough to fail when drafting a QB in the 1st round. But it's far worse when you pay them over 200 mil. and multiple first round picks and they fail.

If the ref deemed that ball un-catchable, why didn't he call holding? Because it certainly WAS holding at a minimum.

Whatever the reason for our problems on O we need to get it straightened out quickly. The AFC is wide open right now. The Jets lost AR, the Bengals and Chargers are 0-2, the Chiefs don't look as strong as advertised and the Bills don't either. With our D, the way it looks right now, we can play with anyone. If we lose our next 2 games because of our O I think something needs to be done and fast. We can't throw this season down the drain with the talent assembled here. A coaching change or at least how our O is run will have to be addressed. WE have 3 straight games at home. If we lose tomorrow, it's a real possibility we could be 1-4 because we have the Ravens and 49ers next. That can't happen and might kill our season. JMO

Because the ball was thrown so far out of bounds that aside from anything else that happened on that play he could not have caught that ball in bounds. I know people just love to blame the refs somehow for every loss the Browns have. Maybe if the QB had thrown the ball in a place the WR had a chance in hell of catching the ball in bounds we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I myself am not blaming the refs. We lost that game because of turnovers not to mention that 71-yard TD pass that wouldn't have happened if we didn't allow a 1st down on 3rd and 10 and a run to boot on the play just before it.

this is probably going to happen at some point honestly

It was the first time since week 2 2008 that i thought we were clearly going to win over them. I was wrong then but I was justified now. Stack the rosters. The Browns are head and shoulders more talented than the Steelers. I cannot stress this enough....they are Watt and a bunch of jags. I was so confident of the win even after the pick 6.

The issue is we have Stefanski and they have Tomlin.

Quick, someone give me a Stefanski signature win. Or better yet, if Stefanski gets fired is he getting another head coaching gig? We all know the answer to this.

We are at a severe disadvantage every single game with our head coach. The Browns are so clearly the better team tomorrow that it should for sure be a win. We will see if Stefanski can coach the team to one.

Agree with you Rish. I was talking with a buddy the other day and asked what the signature win of the Stafanski era was. He replied the playoff win against pittsburgh. So I asked him where Stefanski was during that game. And he sad: That's right, he was home in his basement

Kevin "no one does less with more" Stefanski

Rishuz I am starting to agree with you. I like KS and want him to do well but the evidence is getting stronger against him. These next 3 games may tell the story. They are all at home. I feel we should win 2 out of 3. If we lose all 3 we might have some change coming. We can't be 1-4 after 5 games. Even a 2-3 record would be a disappointment.

We've all seen passes that are un-catchable being flagged for PI over the years, especially when the NFL needed Tom Brady to get a game winning drive. Unless some of the receivers are like Mr. Fantastic and can stretch his limbs, then it shouldn't be called. However the refs need to be consistent IMO, which will never happen of course

I could probably look this up but I am too lazy, and I would have little knowledge of the way the guy coached. I am not asking to a wise guy, but who was Watson's coach at Houston when he was very successful and what type of offense did they run.

Was it different than ours? Something must have worked for him to be near MVP level stats for a year or 2.

Deshaun Watson accounted for three of the Browns' four turnovers, including a first-play pick-six and a game-losing fumble returned for a touchdown by T.J. Watt. Watson was also called for two massive 15-yard facemask penalties.

His passer rating (69.1), also 31. His completion percentage ranks dead last at 55.1.

And it is Stefanski's fault???

Please.

Do you think the HC is not responsible for the play of the starting @uarterback?
How about if the HC is responsible for who the starter is at @uarterback.
How about if the HC is r' for the preparation of the orchestrator of the offense from the on field,
or for making sure they get enough practice together as a unit, I mean the thrower and the catcher,

How about, if the HC is responsible in any way,, that if , in a big game, over 4 or five years, that way too often if the game is on the line, that way too often,
they end up relying on an H Back, or a 3rd TE, or a 3rd Rb. on a crunch play, and a lot of the time apparently by design.

Is none of it Stefanski's fault???

I think you are mixing up the end of the 2nd to last drive and the very last throw. 2nd to last drive I'll give you uncatchable. Very last throw was easily catchable if the DB hadn't prevented DPJ from coming back to the ball.

heres how i look at it. Watson before he came here was a top 5 QB, led the league in passing his last year and threw for 5k yards and 70%..elite by any standard. he also threw 33 TD's and only 7 picks. Stefanski was responsible for cousins lowest output in his time in Minnesota.., He's left there and cousins has gotten better, so to me, I'm looking at the guy who seems to get the least out of good players than I am the guy who just all of a sudden got worse when he came here. We will never win anything significant with Stefanski, regardless who the QB is. Yes Watson has looked bad here, but I don't think its all on him. I'm more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than I am Stefanski since Watson has a history of playing at a high level, stefasnki rode Kubiaks coattails to an OC job and hasn't really done much to make his own way the further away from that job. Bottom line is unless your name is Andy Reid, you should not call plays as a HC

How about making sense?

Is it really that surprising that Cousins' numbers got better once the Vikings drafted the best WR in the league? Dalvin Cook's numbers got a lot worse post-Stefanski.

Even Andy Reid struggles when his receivers are dropping passes that go right to the defense for INTs. See Kadarius Toney week 1. It's actually kind of eerily similar to Bryant last week. The Chiefs are 1-1, too, and their O has been struggling. They also have a struggling OT. Is Andy Reid suddenly a bad coach?

If we don't look improved coming out of the bye, then maybe I start to worry about Stefanski more. We could look much better today. (Though the Titans' D isn't the best opponent for a get right game)

To me, it's too soon to jump to conclusions this season. We'll see how it goes.

I tend to agree with you. Stefnaski didn't make watson an inaccurate passer. He also didn't make watson have ball security issues.

Bone...You do realize that Watson has more job security than Stefanski does..?

How many chances should Stefanski get before Haslam pulls the plug on KS..?

A wise NFL coach once said this about judging a coach's value and performance...

"YOU ARE WHAT YOUR RECORD SAYS YOU ARE"...

After 4 yrs as the Browns HC/OC, Stefanski is a 50-50 coach...win a game, lose a game. It's time to face reality, Stefanski is not what we thought he was and he has not shown to have the ability to change or improve his own performance.

He did not come into coaching with a background in offensive football. His personal experience with the game was on the defensive side of the ball, playing DB in college, never at QB.

Hopefully Haslam has a short leash on Stefanski.

Anyone believe Bill Parcells would give Stefanski another year to try to prove himself as the Browns HC/OC..?

Cleveland Browns (1991–1995)

From 1991 until 1995, Belichick was the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. During his tenure in Cleveland, he compiled a 36–44 record, leading the team to the playoffs in 1994, his only winning year with the team.[38] Coincidentally, his one playoff victory during his Browns tenure was achieved against the New England Patriots, who were coached by former Giants head coach Bill Parcells, in the Wild Card Round during that postseason.[39] In Belichick's last season in Cleveland, the Browns finished 5–11, despite starting 3–1.[40] One of his most controversial moves was cutting quarterback Bernie Kosar midway through the 1993 season. Kosar was signed by the Dallas Cowboys two days later and won a Super Bowl with the Cowboys in Super Bowl XXVIII as a backup. In November 1995, in the middle of the ongoing football season, Browns owner Art Modell had announced he would move his franchise to Baltimore after the season.[41] After first being given assurances that he would coach the new team that would later become the Baltimore Ravens, Belichick was instead fired on February 14, 1996, one week after the shift was officially announced.[42]


Remember this guy boy did he really suck.

Yes, let's get rid of Stefanski so that we can end up with the next Hue Jackson.

Bill Belichick's record in his first four seasons in Cleveland was 31-33. You all would have tried to run him off, too.

Very catchable ball, particularly if the CB is not yanking him away from the catch.

One point is hard to deny no matter what our opinions may be. If things continue to go south we should all face the reality of how things will end. That 230 million dollar guaranteed contract assures us of how things will end here. No matter if the problem ends up being watson or not.

That contract means the Browns are married to watson. There's no way out of that. So when push comes to shove when the Browns feel they need to appease the fan base, it will be Stefanski who will be the sacrificial lamb.

Thanks for that replay. It shows without a doubt there was no way the WR could have caught that ball in bounds even if he had been open.

HAHA

Hopefully Haslam can make better decisions than a loud group of "fanatics." I'm not counting on it. I think a big piece of things some people are forgetting is that if we do get rid of Stefanski, there's, to me, a decent chance they get it even more wrong next time. Stefanski could work out (better than) fine, I think.

Stefanski hasn't had an easy go of it. Had to deal with COVID. Had to deal with the whole Deshaun situation last year. Had Chubb and an OT go down so far this year.

We won a playoff game with him. That was progress. The locker room seems to buy into him. We're going through the growing pains of working in a couple new bodies with the starters (plus, a bunch of pass catchers missed a lot of preseason.) I don't really have the urge to go through the acclimation process with everybody again with a new HC.

Honestly, I still have scars from the Hue years. The thought that Haslam might get it that wrong again is not something that I want to chance.

Browns QB Deshaun Watson fined $35,513 for unsportsmanlike conduct, two unnecessary roughness violations in loss to Steelers

Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson was fined a total of $35,513 for unsportsmanlike conduct and two unnecessary roughness violations during last Monday night's 26-22 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers, the league announced on Saturday.

Watson was fined $13,659 for unsportsmanlike conduct and $10,927 twice for two separate unnecessary roughness penalties during the Week 2 game.

NFL Network Insider Tom Pelissero reported that Watson's unsportsmanlike conduct fine was for a gun-themed celebration in the third quarter after Cleveland scored a touchdown.

Browns tight end David Njoku, who was seen doing the same celebration with Watson, was also fined $13,659 by the league for unsportsmanlike conduct, Pelissero reported.

Watson's two fines for unnecessary roughness were for separate facemask penalties that came in the third and fourth quarters of Monday night's road loss.

Following the first unnecessary roughness penalty he incurred in the third quarter, Watson appeared to make contact with an official while arguing the flag, but the NFL on Tuesday announced that the contact did not warrant a punishment.

"Officials are called upon to maintain order on the field, and sometimes while performing those duties, there is inadvertent contact between players and officials," the league said in a statement on Tuesday. "In this instance, in their judgment, the contact did not rise to the level of a foul."

https://www.nfl.com/news/browns-qb-...r-unsportsmanlike-conduct-two-unnecessar

How is a ball that passes within an inch of a receivers' hands while being interfered with on the field of play uncatchable? (1:30 mark) If he'd been able to go back to the ball, he'd have gotten to it even sooner/before it got closer to the sideline. He was being held with the ball in the air. One (I'd say You, but, eh....) can clearly see the jersey coming away from the shoulder pads in Porter's hand.

Your assertion, "without a doubt," is in no way obvious.

I agree that should have been PI. Contact was made before the ball got there and there was a jersey pull. If that didn't happen he may have had a better chance of catching the ball. As far as KS, if he were to be fired and I'm not saying this will happen or I want it to happen, JS can be promoted to HC and how we run the O would have to be worked out. I really hope we start playing better on O and hope this doesn't happen.

Are we even looking at the same video?



That ball came down about 3 yards out of bounds. Even when it was out of reach when he was trying to catch it, which it still was over his head and his left foot was out of bounds by at least a yard.

His foot was out of bounds because he was being pulled down earlier. It was only "uncatchable" because he was being interfered with. If he hadn't been, he'd have been at a different spot on the field and would have been able to put his hands up and/or jump. Are you saying a receiver has never caught a ball above his head? It's not like it was 20 feet over his head. If DPJ had been able to take one step back (not been held) and stand up straight the ball might have bounced off the top of his helmet.

I simply can't believe that's your takeaway based on the replay. That ball was out of bounds by a mile and there's no possible way he could have ever caught that ball in bounds. And I don't even see that as being close.

When Joe Buck is pointing out a potential flag that would have benefited the Browns on live TV, I think the reason you don't see it is because you don't want to.

Bone...You do realize that Watson has more job security than Stefanski does..?

How many chances should Stefanski get before Haslam pulls the plug on KS..?

A wise NFL coach once said this about judging a coach's value and performance...

"YOU ARE WHAT YOUR RECORD SAYS YOU ARE"...

After 4 yrs as the Browns HC/OC, Stefanski is a 50-50 coach...win a game, lose a game. It's time to face reality, Stefanski is not what we thought he was and he has not shown to have the ability to change or improve his own performance.

He did not come into coaching with a background in offensive football. His personal experience with the game was on the defensive side of the ball, playing DB in college, never at QB.

Hopefully Haslam has a short leash on Stefanski.

Anyone believe Bill Parcells would give Stefanski another year to try to prove himself as the Browns HC/OC..?




GM...so you view Stefanski as a GREAT HC, comparable to Bill Belichick...really?

gm...you think Parcells would view Stefanski as the next Belichick..?

Or, would Parcells look at Stefanski as a coach who is what his record says he is...a 50-50 HC.

My criticism of Stefanski is based on his lack of progress as a coach. He seems to be incapable of viewing his own performance as a HC and accept responsibility for his part in the failure of his offense to produce.

A good coach adjusts his offense (in this case) according to the talent he has to work with. These are the players Stefanski and his gang wanted..upgrading QB, TEs, WRs, RBs.

Does Haslam wait to see if the offensive unit responds favorably and plays according to the talent Stefanski said he needed to make the playoffs and have a shot at a Super Bowl..?

Haslam has this coaching staff set up to make a change at HC if needed and still have the possibility to make the playoffs IF HASLAM DOESN'T WAIT TOO LONG to make the change.

Bringing Schwartz in as DC and seeing what a difference that made in the performance of the defense should help Haslam realize that 'if needed', he doesn't have to sit back and watch this season get flushed down the toilet.

It obvious that Schwartz was able to earn the respect of his players and those players have responded. I have NO DOUBT that the players on the offense would respond and respect Schwartz just as the defense did, if Schwartz was replaced Stefanski as HC.

Haslam could ask Van Pelt to take over the OC responsibility while Schwartz continued to focus primarily on the defense.


The point is, Haslam has the flexibility to make changes if Stefanski fails to produce as OC and he would not be forced to watch an entire season get flushed down the toilet because of poor coaching.

It would be best if Stefanski adjusted his offense to better suit the talent he has to work with.

2nd Q of the Tenn game. Single dumbest QB play I have ever ever seen. Ey Ey ey

It’s the worse nightmare for DW haters. He balled out today against a good front

One dumb play, but overall a great game by DW today.

27/33, 289 yards, 2 TDs no turnovers

Watson had a really nice game today, overall. (especially given that he was screwed out of a long TD by the so called official)

They also did what I suggested .... short passes, get the ball out of his hands, and build some confidence. Then they started with some of the deeper passes, and started connecting.

100%. Excellent escapability, good throws and accuracy. Best so far for us.... One knucklehead play reminiscent of a play by weeden I seem to recall. Props to KS too. Didn't get away from the run game even though it struggled early. Went for the jugular with the deep TD when leading. Good all round

Ravens just got beat by Colts...

Good for Browns...

You have to be talking about the backward pass...

Didn't get to see the game today, spent all day at work.
Sounds like Watson played really well.
I am still ready for him to go.

I will admit to being a DW hater, this game wasn't a nightmare.
I want the Browns to win, happy we did
I want DW to play well while he is a Brown
I don't want him to be a Brown

DW played better in the second half. And those bashing the DW haters, careful what you say because one good half still does not make him elite. I don’t hate DW the player, I just don’t see a 230 mil top 5 QB yet. And I’m not buying into anymore hype about him until I do see something that makes me think he’s special at the position. Heck, before the end of the first half I saw calls for DTR and not much but bashing DW.

That said, it was a good team win. The O seemed to start getting it and you could see DW’s confidence grow in the 2nd half. DW played very well in the second half, and if he can do that every week from here on out, we’ll be a serious contender. This D is super special. They’ve played two games now that makes me think it could be one of those historical Ds praised for decades to come. Ski and DW are attached at the hip in their success. They both took a step in the right direction today. Overall, a satisfying win.

j/c...

Watson started throwing to his checkdowns instead of trying to win the game on a single pass. He hit the longer passes when the opportunity was there. Decision making was greatly improved today, save for one remarkably dumb play.

Build off it and carry it in to the Baltimore and get that win.

LOL I called out Brandon Weeden by his name after the play today as well!

He was long overdue for this game. Good for him, he (and the O) took a lot of heat off their back and got a real bad taste out of their mouths.

Show me that a Watson-led offense won't poo the bed vs a non-Ohio division rival and I'll start getting hopeful.

Of course the flag would have benefited them. That's entirely different than saying the flag deserved to be thrown.

Who would they be? What it did is point out that the way DW has sucked to this point didn't happen yesterday. Yesterday he had a great game! Up until yesterday he hadn't had one. But that's a great way to try and label people who have simply been telling the truth. I don't like DW the person. But for all the other 52 players on the active roster, for the coaching staff and all of my many friends who are avid fans and even for myself who roots for the Browns, I always hope he plays well and finally, yesterday he did.

It wasn't a nightmare, it was a cause for celebration. After Chubb went down DW knew everything rested on his shoulders. The way he has been playing to this point I was very concerned how this would all unfold. Yet in the pool I still picked the Browns minus three and a half. Oooh, what a hater. DW stood up to the challenge. He didn't crumble under that pressure. He was crisp, accurate and decisive. His decision making was fantastic. It's almost as if knowing everything depended on him actually inspired him to play better. Some people crumble under such pressure and others are motivated by it. He certainly looked motivated yesterday. Hopefully this is what we'll see moving forward. I'm also hoping they can get the running game to produce more so not everything rests on DW's shoulders.

I haven’t followed Watson much but how is he doing this year so far?

The only QB balling out the gate is Tua. When comparing Watson to the rest of the field, he’s doing fine.

I hope Love continues to improve.

Yo what’s up with y’all QBs having similar career arcs? Jordan Love looks like he could be that dude

Watson in 2 home games is 3TDs, 1 pick, 1 rushing TD, and 69.4% accuracy.

If he can keep it going at home, we only need a couple road wins to get into the playoffs

He looked awful in the first half. He came on in the 2nd though. I’m not sure he will be a hall of Famer though.

Each week is like a chapter in a book.

When the season ends the story has been told.

DW has played the game we all have been waiting to see. I have seen hitters in a funk get that base hit that gets them going.

I don't know if it will happen with DW. Next week is a new chapter in the book of the season.

Momentum is a real thing. I pay attention to body language. How players are reacting. Yesterday was the first time I have seen DW look the part. He finally seemed to get his feet on solid ground. Like he was playing the game in tune.

You have to see it and believe in it. Anticipate, and trust yourself and your teammates.

That was the kind of showing you can build upon. We have enough talent on offense to win with. But you have to play as a cohesive unit. The defense is playing that way. Use all we have. Get Njoku, DPJ, and Moore involved, along with Cooper. Use Kareem in screens. Use Ford in the passing game. Mix it up. Take a long shot with Goodwin. I want to see Moore in the slot and not in the backfield. Don't over complicate the run game. Trust Ford. Give him the plays Nick ran.

The Ravens will come to play. Odell and Clowney will be there. It is time to defend home field.

First time I saw Stefanski act with good confidence and showing a positive body language filled with offensive vibes up until the end of the Q4. That's a huge difference from what we saw against the Steelers. I firmly believe that Watson is a "sunshine" personality who needs almost constant encouragement to unlock his full potential.

Anyway. Our man Watson needed a happy ending after given all his chicks, sorry I mean fans, so many half hearted sessions.
A good performance no matter what and I have to give them credit for showing up with the best they had after such a horrible loss against the Steelers.

I don't want you to be fooled here. Until yesterday watson did not look good at all. As a result he had one of the lowest percentages in the NFL in terms of pass completions through week two. But the light turned on yesterday and he looked far more like the QB we all had hoped to see. So as of now things are looking up.

I think when you have as much time off as he did and things don't go right immediately, its a case of self doubt.. asking yourself can you still do it. I think a few more games like yesterday and we will see watson get back to what he was. Confidence is a funny thing, can make you play above your abilities and below your abilities depending where on the spectrum you are. Same for the whole team.. Defense has it in spades, I think the Offense lost it all when chubb went down. They got a bit of it back yesterday.

70% of the NFL is about confidence and momentum. Need the D to keep both up.

I agree. In years past our players expected to lose, have miscommunications, etc. You gotta build on momentum

I don't remember when it was, so I assume the dumb play was his backwards ........ whatever that was, but when I saw it I had an uneasy Flipper flashback.

don't remind us

No he hasn’t. Yesterday was the first time since he’s been here that he didn’t look like a lost backup QB. Dude has been putrid for us until yesterday. I just hope yesterday wasn’t an anomaly and he starts earning that contract. He gave us basically the same game decent Baker would give us. No upgrade seen yet. But at least I’m not thinking the Browns got duped and the next three years we’ll be stuck with a dud anymore. I’ve now seen he’s capable of starting QB play. So my next question is, can he do that consistently and can he improve upon that? When we can answer both of those questions with yes, I’ll feel much better about him. Until then, he’s a question mark in my book.

Yesterday was an upgrade. We will have to wait and see moving forward but yesterday was an upgrade by far.

Over what we were getting out of Watson in the previous games? I agree. Over Mayfields best games (comparing apples to apples) not so much, YET.

He finished last season giving the Browns what Mayfield did. He was 3 wins and 3 losses with 58.2 completion %, 1,102 yards for 183 yards per game, 7 TD's and 5 int's and a QB Rating of 79.1. He was not garbage he just was not the upgrade from Mayfield the Browns had hoped for. So far, this year he has 2 wins and 1 loss with a 63.7 completion %, 678 yards for 226 yards per game, 4 TD's and 2 int's and a QB Rating of 87.8%. Improving but not there yet.

Baker's last year with the Browns was 8 wins and 9 loss record. Although, I think our back-up beat both the Bronco's and Bengals that year so he went 6 wins and 9 losses with a 60.5 completion %, 3,010 yards for 215 yards per game, 17 TD's and 13 Int's, and a QB rating of 83.1.

His best year was 2020 where he had 11 wins and 5 losses with a 62.8 completion %, 3,563 yards for 223 yards per game, 26 TD's and only 8 int's, a QB Rating of 95.9.

DeShaun's floor is around Baker's ceiling. He is already putting up Baker numbers we expected an upgrade and so far, have not got that. If you want to say he has not been a Baker upgrade, I agree. To say he has been putrid is just not true.

We all want Watson to be special and hope he will. Yesterday's performance was a step in the right direction, but he needs to string a few games like that together before we say he is back to that form. I do believe he has that talent. I've seen it when he played in college winning a National Championship and in Houston making 3 pro bowls and leading the NFL in passing yards. I don't believe those that say he will never get that back. He is still young, and those media types just are rooting against him because of his off the field stuff.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I am not going to say I am right and you are wrong. It makes no difference that he played safety. He was the OC with the Vikings.

I disagree with you. I think he does play to the strengths of his players specifically quarterbacks.

I think he got the most from Cousins, Baker, and Jacoby. We shall see how this season goes with DW.

IMO everyone will gripe about play calls. So, I don't care. When they work great. When they don't people holler.

KS is the head coach for this season. If we have a good season; IMO KS remains. We shall see.

The play calling was very good yesterday. We brought them in early to open the middle and deep.

interesting...


https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/new...and-browns-could-deshaun-watson-contract


Steelers Rival Browns Could Get Out of Deshaun Watson Contract
A loophole has opened up for Pittsburgh Steelers rivals Cleveland Browns to avoid Deshaun Watson's guarantees.

PITTSBURGH -- During the Pittsburgh Steelers Week 2 win over the Cleveland Browns, quarterback Deshaun Watson accumulated three fines for violations on the field, sparking a conversation about his future with the team and a potential loophole to release him.

According to Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio, the Browns could have a way to void Watson's future guarantees if the league suspends him for on-field infractions. The five-year, $230 million contract is fully guaranteed by Cleveland.


Now, the specifics of the suspension would play a key role in the contract. If Watson is suspended for only one game, or because of non-egregious conduct, his guarantees stay in place. However, the team determines if the suspension is due to egregious conduct.

This past week, Watson was fined for two face mask penalties and then for a "violent gesture" made on the field. Currently, there is no talk of suspension, but that could, and likely would, change if he continues accumulating penalties for these same issues.


Watson has $138 million in guarantees remaining in his contract, which runs through 2026. Through two games this season, Watson has completed 38 of 69 passes for 389 yards and two touchdowns with two interceptions.

There is no reason to open up a can of worms. DW played well yesterday and we all hope that it continues. I think at this point there should be no discussion about getting out of his contract.

I don't think we should I just think it's interesting that he has those clauses

Most teams have standard language in all of their contracts for voiding guarantees.
link

I think Watson will actually be a better QB without Chubb in the lineup.

well, we just have to worry about his skillset now ... not marrying him with Chubb. So I agree

The same game decent Baker would give us??

[quote]I disagree with you. I think he does play to the strengths of his players specifically quarterbacks.

Eli Moore is not a RB and why would the Browns try to feature him as a RB when they have better RBs on the bench.

I thought KS gave up on the run early in the game when he should have been utilizing all 3 of RBs...Hunt, Ford and Strong.

No need to panic...thankfully KS was a bit more balanced in the second half.

The Browns went out and traded for Strong Jr...we need to see more of him and little less Eli Moore as a RB, imo.

One game against a poor Titans team doesn't tell us a whole lot. It's a win and we certainly will take those all we can get.

The Browns defense had a good game as did Watson..except for the deep handoff.

I agree with Moore. I think we are trying a little too hard to get him the ball to prove a point. If he is good enough, the point will be proven over the course of the season, not in the first 3 games trying to manufacture touches.

You have to give opportunities, but those touches don't have to be an array of razzle dazzle plays. I agree, just put him out there as a receiver and get him the ball downfield. He is just running Anthony Schwartz plays the team could never run with him on the roster. I don't want to see him as a running back. he has already run near a seasons worth of those. Screw that. I don't want him to be the bubble screen guy.....send him out on routes.

I think he had 9 catches for 40 or so yards. That sucks. Lets get him catching some balls 10-15 yards down field. I can't think of the guys name, he played for us a few years and saw a few plays a game. He went to New England and maybe made a pro-bowl or two. If not, he was a big past of the patriots passing attack. This was maybe 10-12 years ago. Moore reminds me of him.

Anyway, I agree. Give the ball to Strong if you aren't going to run Ford or Hunt before you line up Moore as a back. I am a SEC fan and was a big fan of Moore when playing for Ole Miss. They had good teams there when he played and he played well against SEC competition. It's not like he can't play receiver.

Quit the rinky dink crap.

...I've gone back 20 years through our and the Patriots' roster, and I still have no idea who you are thinking of.

David Patten?

Off the top of my head….David Patten?

Patten played for us in 2000. Time flies.

Yes

It does, and the older you get, the faster it flies. 10-12 years, 23 years, it all starts to run together.

Just goes to show how the days are long but the years are short. I put in endless 14 hour days hammering out the work, feeling like they would never end, and now a decade or two ago feels like last year.

AMEN !!!

Post game from the Bengals I stated that I do like Moore in the backfield unless he is a decoy.

He is 5'10" 180 lbs. He is not a running back. In fact I want to see him get downfield more. He is a receiver. He has top speed and can create separation. He should be in the slot and at Y. Sure put him in motion. I know they want to get him in space for yac.

But he is not a break away runner. He is no Debo.

KS wants to compensate for the loss of Nick. IMO trust Ford. Use Kareem in screens. Use Njoku more.

No head coach is going to do what we all want them to do. KS is far from perfect. But we have to bear in mind he sees more and knows more about the team than we do.

In the end his career is about wins. That is the game. We have a good team. I believe in the team and KS.

I am hoping to have a great season.

David Patten (he was actually good for us for a short stretch lol)

And then a couple of productive years for the Patriots.

Sometimes when I'm bored I'll watch our games from like 2000-2003 and realize that we actually had some pretty good talent ... KJ, Cutt, Davis, Morgan was an awesome WR corps. Pretty good defense and front 7 too. We coulda been better

Error "I do "Not" like Moore in the backfield.

It will be really interesting to see what happens if the Browns beat the Ravens and then the
49'ers.

Of course all us fans will be hollering.

I wonder how the outside media will handle it? They don't want a thing to do with us.

Through three weeks the Browns defense is a real story. Slight mention by the media. But man they will talk about the Cowboys till their tongues fall off. And of course KC with Kelce and Taylor Swift along with Mahomes. They will jump at any hot story or team. But it is clear they do not want to talk about the Browns.

Yet through the first three weeks the real story is The Browns defense.

That's fine tghey can fly under the radar a few more weeks. Win the next two and the media will not ignore them any longer. Loss and the media will continue to think anything positive the Browns do is still a non story.

I worked from home yesterday and watched all the talk shows. I can't remember a single one talking about the Browns except for Florio and Sims.

Screw 'em.

I don't think the run plays by Moore necessarily stand alone in Kevin's mind. I think he may be trying to get teams to keep a LB (or even a S instead of CB) on the field when Moore is back there to get a matchup he wants on a pass concept later. By showing the run, defenses have to prepare to defend it. He may have a tendency breaker in mind to try to get a chunk play later, much like the Ford "sluggo" TD.

I thought about that as well.

There could be something to that.

I think KS believes he will need to compensate for the loss of Nick. The plan through camp was to use Moore in many ways.

So, I understand but I believe his value is in the slot. Also, I think they should take some deep shots with Moore.

The way I am seeing this offense without Nick is: Be diverse. Use everyone. We have a good mix of talent at multiple positions. Spread the ball around.

Bill Simmons talked about the Browns quite a bit on his podcast yesterday. Beginning at about the ~12min mark...

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-...s-agony-and-week-4-lines-with-cousin-sal

Seems he was real good for NE for a few years. Not sure if he made a pro bowl, but was near good enough to have made one. Seems like 850 yards receiving....maybe 8 TD's as a high mark, but several seasonsaround 700-800 yards. Pretty productive guy. Maybe played for the giants as well.

This.

Different looks, giving the defense more to think about and setting up other plays with the formation. I'm fine with him in the backfield.

Didn't he play CB in the playoffs/SB the one year b/c they were short-handed?

That was Troy Brown.

Ah, thats right. Thanks Milk.

Good to know there is an out if DW becomes a bad actor on the field. But he is Jimmy’s golden boy QB, so he’s safe I’d say.

I think only the Browns' Rivals and their fans, aka steelers, ravens, bengals, and the new york market would want to rush D. Watson out of his contract with the Browns.

J/C
Browns coach Kevin Stefanski clarified on Monday that Deshaun Watson was medically cleared to face the Ravens by team doctors, and that it was his call to rest his bruised right shoulder.


This is hilarious to me... Some will say he had every right to set but I'm glad that after 40+ years I called it quits on the Browns. This is the first time I've been back to this site in 2 years but I couldn't resist. Anyone that believes Watson is going to be the savior is crazy 🤣🤣

Is anyone surprised? Not me and it will probably happen again when results go south.

I have no idea what you mean about things "going south". Just the week before watson went 27-33 for 2td's, 289 yards and 2 td's. They won 27-3. Is that what you call things going south?

No, he probably means that we’ve saw one decent game out of DW and even though he was cleared to play he didn’t… I had these thoughts before this hit the record, now confirmed, I find DW lacking any and all moxie. What I wouldn’t give to have Baker back under center… DW will set us back 20 years before it’s all over. I hate that trade.

Yes, we didn't/shouldn't learn anything from Baker hurting his shoulder, trying to play through it, and being awful an entire season.

Ski had nothing to do with that… You guys can have this team. Perennial losers.

Sorry you're leaving.

Here come the trolls putting words in my mouth. But if this is all we are getting, I will be gone soon enough.

I was pleasantly surprised the way Watson played in that game and he deserves all the credit he gets but as a franchise QB with 230m on their way to his account there’s no excuses for him to not show up to play when he’s cleared by our medical team.

Forget about Baker and that he was willing to put his health on the line despite awful play design from our HC but instead you can look at a quite successful QB in KCC. There was some excellent episodes on Netflix about Mahomes who was willing to do whatever it takes to both participate and win games for his team. No excuses and no feeling sorry for himself. Even when he barely couldn’t walk he made himself available, even insisted to play despite being well documented injured .

That’s the sign of a winner and you can bet his team mates do everything in their power to repay his dedication and loyalty.

When our highest paid player doesn’t show up when we need him most then why should other players in our roster walk that extra mile we expect from highly paid athletes when they’re injured?

What do you prefer. A fighter and a “win at all cost” character who don’t look for excuses like Pat Mahomes or a *snowflake who make himself unavailable and disappear when things get tough and uncomfortable?

* (Floquinho in Portuguese)

They gave Watson the choice and he didn't feel he was good to go and would hurt his team more by not playing than playing.

I'm glad you're finally willing to admit Ski had nothing to do with it. Acceptance is the first step in recovery.

People tend to forget that.

If Watson didn't feel he could play, no sense inflaming the thing with a Bye week this week.

Being medically cleared and able to play are two different things.

It's a marathon not a sprint. If Watson sat in the playoffs, it'd be different. What you do at the end of the season matters a lot more than what happens before the bye. If one doesn't think one can play well enough to win, why put the rest of the season at risk? I don't think he expected things to go the way they went. He may have legitimately thought DTR gave the team a better chance to win.

That part I agree with but Watson’s time in Houston wasn’t exactly a pretty story and when things got uncomfortable and tough and they traded away key players then who did you see disappear and make himself unavailable? Then we’re back to excuses again. His team mates didn’t find reasons to not participate, they was there every game despite questionable results and criticism from all around.

It’s not about questioning his talent and ability. DSW is a good QB when he occasionally find his mojo to show up or when things go well. Typical for a character who mostly delivers when the road is straight without bumps and with sunshine in their back. But when a mild wind turns into a storm you don’t see much of the Deshaun Watson characters of this world at the front line. When there is an opportunity to take the easy way out then you can bet his name is among the first who show up in that line of snowflakes.

What you do is who you’re in both good and bad times. As a son, husband, father, friend, employee and team mate.

Stefanski and his team according to reports gave him the chance to decide by himself. In my world it should be the other way around. Watson makes himself available and let our HC make the decision if we’re going risk his long term health or not. It’s about sending the right messages to his teammates and those supporters who paid his salary, it’s about being someone we can count on when things gets rough.

That’s the spirit of a winner and someone who values loyalty to his organization and his team mates. That’s my take on this.

As a side note to Watson’s unavailability and why we have these problems is mostly happening because of a questionable leadership culture who don’t practice their own guidelines.

Every attempts to create a winning culture often falls apart before it even starts when the leaders don’t hold those who has their own agendas accountable and make sure everyone works inside the same working structure.

That responsibility falls on Berry and Stefanski but having a weak and insecure owner doesn’t exactly help them either. This organization needs a strong leader with the right principles who don’t compromise with certain values.

As long as we don’t have someone who protect a strict and functioning culture and make sure everyone is acting under the same rules and guidelines characters like DSW can dictate his own terms and make our coaches and leaders to look weak and incompetent.

one of the drawbacks of signing Watson was that he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt in the public eye ... he says he can't play and people are going to take it negatively. It's going to be like that with anything ... it's an uphill battle for him both on and off the field

People are going round and around in circles on this and getting themselves all wound up and meanwhile not a peep about Watson apparently not knowing how to slide.

IMO, if we're going to get all hot and bothered over this, why isn't Watson taking questions about spending some of that gajillion dollars we gave him on a sliding coach.

I tend to agree.... if Watson couldn't play that's fine. I'd rather have him healthy after the bye.... i'd do the same with Burrows at this point in Cinci.

I'm not sure what communications took place all week, everything i've read indicates this was a very late decision and took KS completely by surprise. That sounds to me like poor communications thru the week of practice .... if there was even a slim chance DW wasn't going to play DTR should have had more 1st team reps and playbook adjusted. That part worries me more than the decision not to play. If we see a pattern of medically cleared to play and lare decisions to sit I may start to worry.

Are either of those options a good look for stefanski?

Either he wasn't communicating with the players and training staff or he failed to use that information appropriately.

I'm guessing Deshaun expected to recover faster. Unfortunately, he's not getting as much bodywork to improve blood flow as he was used to.

Sliding is overrated. (Sliding guys get hit at times and are often in bad positions for mitigating damage.) Could take some lessons from Lamar on avoiding huge hits and lessening impacts, though. Unfortunately, it's football and you'll never avoid all of the hits.

This seems to be a popular theme among some. Being medically cleared to play has nothing to do with your ability to perform your job. All it means is that you're not so injured that you risk further or more seriously injuries by playing. It doesn't mean that with your throwing shoulder being injured you are able to throw the ball. Those are two different things.



Baker's injury was in his non throwing shoulder. But yeah, let's forget about Baker.

I watched the same show you did on Netflix. I believe of Mohomes wasn't able to throw the ball he wouldn't have played. Everyone on this board has accused me of being a watson hater. And I do have great disdain for him as a person. But I compartmentalize the person from the player. The worst thing that can happen is to have a player that plays when he shouldn't. That's willing to hurt his own team because he decides to play when he can't. That's the very definition of a selfish player. And that has nothing to do with moxy.

Out of stock already.

If Watson couldn't throw or if his throwing was in any way impaired then it seems highly probable that KS and the whole FO would have had at least an inkling that DW might not be able to play even if he was 'medically cleared'...

Yes I agree being medically cleared has almost no correlation to "should play" but in your summary you keep suggesting if Watson couldn't throw then it was the right call. I don't know if it was or wasn't the right call.... But if he could not throw or throwing was restricted then the total surprise that KS seems to have coached the game with is even more damning.... No?

That's possible. I don't think one can just take the very few facts that we know and make an accurate summary here. One would hope such a non structural injury would improve. It could be as simple as nobody truly knew for sure if he would be ready to play come game time or not. It may have been a surprise to not only the coaching staff but also to watson himself that the injury hadn't improved to the point he could play.

But thats almost exactly the point, if you are relying on improvement even if its expected, then you put a minimum amount of time and effort into contigency. Either they didnt and we got a predictable outcome ... or they in fact did, and the result was no better than if they hadn't. Neither is a good look.

Hope DW and the entire team get right after the bye.

I know many feel that with a rookie QB and no Chubb then 36 passes is fine and there's no issue with KS and the gameplan/playcalling. I disagree and there isnt a scenario you can paint where it just looks like a KS fail. We can still lose the game but DTR is put in a position to fail less and possibly get a bit of confidence versus what we actually saw.

As I've said elsewhere, I think the short pass option was available to DTR if one were to take a closer look but he just chose not to take them. There is no "contingency plan" with which you're going to be to run against a Ravens D that has the box stacked without Chubb. That just wasn't going to happen.

Ok, so to summarize you don't feel KS could have called a better game than he did? Thats my takeaway from your comments in multiple threads. 36 passes was good, no rollouts and making him read the whole field was the best plan? You havent written that in so many words but your very spirited defense of KS doesnt seem to read any other way.... feel free to correct me if thats not accurate.

I disagree that it was a well called game. And repeatedly calling plays your rookie QB cant execute falls into that "adjustment needed" category which KS simply is not capable of.

jc

The MRI confirmed he has fluid around his shoulder joint. Why play (badly) in pain and risk prolonging the injury?

While I'm unhappy we lost (It was painful to watch) I feel its better to heal and then start. Otherwise we have a Baker situation where he keeps playing through pain and not doing well.

I've certainly never claimed it was a well called game. My assertion is more that people seem to be more concentrated about how the Browns lost rather than the fact they would have lost anyway. I don't think how the game was called had anything to do with the fact they were going to lose that game no matter what plays he called.

I think people should also be placing just as much blame that the only viable back up QB when watson couldn't play was DTR. The kid has some skills that can be developed but anyone thinking he was ready for this is only fooling themselves. That includes the Browns FO who created the situation in the first place.

I'm also pointing out that while roll outs may have been a better option, can anyone tell me how he is at running the roll out? Is that something he does well with at practice which Stefanski simply chose not to use or is it something DTR simply doesn't execute well? I have no idea. But then I don't think many who are making that assertion knows the answer to that question either.

And then the claim that the short passing game should have been used more. From everything I've seen it was open to DTR but he chose not to throw those passes. It could be that he hasn't developed the skill to diagnose those routes. It could be that with so many bodies on that part of the field he simply hasn't caught up to the speed of the game and is unsure of himself. I don't know. But then again I don't think others do either. Even he said he was trying to force things.

My overall point is that people are making a lot of assertions based on little to no information to base these things on. They know what they saw. But they have no idea why they saw it. They have no idea of watson's actual condition at the start of that game. They have no idea if they tried rolling DTR out in practice and he simply had trouble executing those plays. The Monday morning QB'ing and second guessing based on nothing with which to base it on other than the results they saw on the field that day I find rather short sighted.

It's not so much about defending watson or Stefanski. It about watching people jump to conclusions without any actual context of what they saw it to base those assertions on.

Fair enough.

I've not said DW should have played. I don't think we win with better play calling. However I think the ay calling was bad and indicitive of a pattern we've seen from KS. I think that part of the game is very much worth highlighting.

Obviously, I don't know for sure, but I seem to recall Stefanski saying DTR had 1st team reps and was up on the gameplan. If Watsons shoulder was hurting on Sunday morning, it had to be hurting earlier in the week . Somebody was running the reps in practice. I am sure it was DTR and not the practice squad guy.

As I said earlier. Game day decisions are made every week on players. This isn't something new. They head out to the field at 10:30 or so, work out a bit and make a final decision. No doubt Stefanski wanted to wait and see as long as possible.

The actual context is based on 3 years and 4 games now of watching Stefanski's failure to adjust with at least 4 different QB's now. You of all people should know his documented trend since you've posted many times about the lack of adjustments by Stefanski. The assertions are completely valid based on Stefanski's past history. Though you may be correct in your assumption that it was a no-win situation, that doesn't exempt Stefanski from the criticism that he fails to adjust his offense continually and he definitely did NOT put his rookie QB in the best situation to be successful. Stefanski ran almost the exact same offense that he would have run if Watson was playing and that's total BS for an experienced HC to put his young zero experienced player in.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are stating.

All week long by all accounts including from DW was: He was going to play.

It was not until game day that he was ruled out.

If you are talking about play calling. Ok everybody has an opinion.

However, if you are saying they can change the offense hours before game time?? I don't know what you are talking about.

How many good throws did DTR make? When you turn the ball over. You lose games.

Did you watch the play of the OL?

When the Ravens scored just before the half. And the Browns are down 21-3. What are you going to do? Hand the ball off when they had not done a thing on the ground?

I KNOW I read an article friday or Saturday that said DW didn't throw much in practice, and DTR got most of the reps.

Per the Terry Pluto podcast, DW could barely throw the ball 15 yards and it had no zip on it

https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/202...100th-episode-terrys-talkin-podcast.html

so then why was our gameplan to be on pace to throw 50 times? lol

This isn’t a direct answer to you PitDAWG because you actually trying to make a good point but in general because I’m so tired of hearing and reading all the jada jada when we’re losing.

Some of you’re missing the point about the importance of setting a culture that reduces internal misunderstandings/miscommunications, that doesn’t create unanswered questions whenever a unexpected decision is taken, that doesn’t make it almost impossible for us to win a game with a original or restructured game plan when we’re facing injuries.

All I see is excuses, all sorts of explanations and more excuses to protect all the underachievers and the snowflakes. It must be a nice little coincidence that whatever happens, unexpected or not, is that one thing that’s certain is the Cleveland Browns almost always find a way to create negative headlines and/or lose games.

One step forward, two steps back. Set things that doesn’t work on repeat and try it again. That’s the motto of a dysfunctional company culture.


There’re actually other organizations that win games with injuries and aren’t always victims to unexpected circumstances. I know it’s hard to believe but they exist.

I'm not defending the coaches here, but, I think there is a terrible tendency to look at what the team did and assume that it is exactly what the plan was.
People also often complain of a lack of in-game adjustments while failing to realize that almost everything they watch is an in-game adjustment.

We couldn't run the ball. Period. Every attempt at anything even similar to a hand-off was stuffed. Sweeps, screens, inside, outside... nothing was going anywhere.
If you can't run it, then your choices are to either pass it, or pass it. It's that simple.

If our attempts at running had been even a little more effective, it's pretty much guaranteed we'd have seen more of it and less passing..... but, the OLine struggled to pass block and run block and none of our RB's is named Nickolas Chubb. Hunt is awesome, and Ford is a good 3rd stringer, but neither of them is Chubb.

It's important for any organization to always be able to lean into their strengths.

I agree 100%.

Watch the game and understand what you see.

The natural reaction when you lose is to want to blame someone. I get it. KS can certainly be questioned about play calling. Hell every coach is questioned about play calling. Every coach including Belichick and Tomlin.

Nothing was working in the Raven's game. They were behind early. 21-3 at the half. 6th round rookie making his first NFL start.

DW is 2-1. DTR didn't have a record. Nick Chubb is not playing. Ford and Hunt are not close to Chubb.

The real issue right now is the offensive line.

KS is not without blame. I have not seen yet what I was expecting in reference to play design.

As you correctly stated the game is a constant adjustment. Without Nick the Browns are going to have to spread the offense.

Receivers are going to have to get open and the OL will have to improve.

You're not asking me, but I'm of the opinion that (while there certainly was room for improvement) a better plan/playcall by Stefanski probably wouldn't have influenced the outcome of the game all that much.

Instead of wringing our hands over throwing our no-ready rookie QB to the wolves, we'd be going nuts over a playcall that had us passing for 4 yards on a 3rd and 15.

I actually agree that we'd have a tough time beating Baltimore regardless .. but I also get the feeling that we just aren't going to be good enough to win anything meaningful either. Our offense is too inconsistent

Not just to you, but to everyone that thinks different plays should have been called.... have you considered that they called what they called based on knowledge of the things that weren't working?
Like, every call was an attempt to find ANYTHING that might work?

You know you can't run, so you're calling more passes. You try screens, but they don't work.
So, you try going empty, and they kinda work, but the line isn't giving you lots of time, so you try to hold a TE back to block, or you call something with a formation that has a RB to help chip. You finally find something that is working, but the ball keeps getting dropped or it has been called back because of a hold by the OL that can't buy you time, and now every time you go back to it, they see it coming, so you have to go to something else for a bit.... but, you're now into your 4th 3 & out series because you only get three tries at a time and they're adjusting as you're trying to adjust.

Some days you're the windshield; some days you're the bug.

I completely agree. I think folks tend to think that "game planning" is like some sort of strategic master class as if they're the generals and admirals figuring out how to conduct the Campaign in the Pacific.


Some times, game planning gets simplified for you really quick:

On offense, you have a know-nothing rookie QB, so your entire offensive plan is "well, let's throw a bunch of crap against the wall and see what sticks"

and then game day arrives and the rest of the offense is executing as poorly as the QB and any and all plans get tossed out the window because nobody is able to do anything.

Do you think every play should work? Of course not. You can't give up running the ball that quickly. Actually at all. Without even a threat of running the ball the d-line can just tee off on the pass rush.

How many screens did we attempt? How many draw plays? I don't know the answer, I listened on the radio while running errands.

Of course not every play is going to work, but if absolutely none of a particular type of play is ever working and you can see plain as day WHY they aren't working and that it isn't likely to change all damn day, then you're now in the territory of "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result".

I guess situationally here was my issue (and it is kind of a theme of our offense):

The situation was:

- Tie game 0-0
- First quarter and we have the ball at midfield
- it was 2nd and 2 after a nice 1st down run by Ford
- We have a rookie QB against Baltimore
- The next two plays we get cute with PA stuff and empty formations


I get the reason WHY you'd do that stuff under normal circumstances, but we certainly weren't playing under normal circumstances

I was not talking about play calling.

Play calling and design are different.

All off season the scheme was installed. That is what the players learned. The playbook.

Game prep is based upon calling plays for the playbook; that you believe should work against the team defense you play each week.

DTR and the rest of the offense failed to execute.

What I was expecting on scheme was based upon how KS and DW were developing the scheme. The point was getting DW into plays that he felt most comfortable in.

I was expecting more spread. More gun and motion. Less snaps from center. More use of three wideouts and empty backfield. Heavy use of screens with backs. Backs in the pass game. Use of RPO. Moore is a slot guy not a running back.

When we lost Nick. That really hurt.

The Raven game was a beat down. Rookie qb's don't win first games.
===============================================================================

We have played four games. We do not yet know what the offense is. Turnovers have to stop.

We will find out what this offense is going to look like. The Titan game was an indication. The offense used multiple players. The ball was spread around.

My real concern right now is the OL. Ford is ok. Hunt so far looks diminished. It going to be about DW throwing the ball.

So are you saying a Chubbless Browns team facing a Ravens D with the box stacked against them should just keep running into a wall? Some people see not trying to do that as giving up. Others see it as reacting to the opposing defense and how they are set up. Trying to play away from their game plan and taking what they are willing to give you. And some will say "they should have imposed their will on the Ravens D". But with no Chubb and no watson that's a rather silly take on things. The only RB on the Browns roster to average more than 3 yards per carry the entire game was Strong in garbage time. Yeah, they should have kept doing that.

I can't say about the screen passes because I didn't keep count but they were attempted. And it seems what some are claiming is that there weren't short routes ran and that option was not available for DTR to pass to. That's imply not accurate. But when you have a QB that is not ready to be a starter in the NFL they will make bad decisions. Their judgement is not the best in such situations and they do not take those options.

Typical Stefanski led team, reports are coming out now that the Browns players were irked when Watson pulled himself from playing. HEY, anyone see a pattern here? It's Cleveland my friends, same sh_t just a different day.

And here people thought I was the watson hater in the crowd.