DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

Come on now Oober. If you don't do exactly what their D expects you to do there must be something wrong with that. Are you trying to say that considering the actual scoring implications and the situation facing you on the field should make a difference?

Hopefully purple wasn't necessary.

Agreed Oober.

This situation falls under the same play as the pitch from Harrison Bryant to Hunt for the score. If Hunt didn't get it, then the complaints come in on why wasn't the obvious done by running the sneak.

I have no complaints about the call. I think I can go out on a limb and say Stefanski did not tell Brown: no matter what throw the ball to a receiver, even if it's into triple coverage. PJ had running yards in front of him. Players sometimes make dumb mistakes. That wasn't a coaching issue. If anything, I am happy Stef was trying to be aggressive in trying to get 7 instead of settling for the FG. SF still had a TO left.

And if PJ would've thrown an INT, I wouldn't have been upset with Stefanski. That was a player made decision on throwing into coverage.

You are a resident of Tennessee. Walker is a resident of the NFL.

It’s also sorta not an interesting chart. While all the teams on the right are winning teams near the top of the league there’s good teams scattered all over. Pitt has the same record as us, San Fran, Dallas, Cincinnati… I’m thinking this is one of those stats that just kinda gives part of the picture and maybe an important part of the pic but not exactly a bell weather

I'm not sure that you know what hypocritical means. Considering the post you replied to never mentioned injury or excuses, it seems a weird word choice.

What does a QB making a bad decision have to do with injury?

Yes, he called a pass. He was trying to win the game. Unfortunately, playing not to lose tends to have the opposite effect. Running into the teeth of the D is a give up play. I'm not sure why you seem to want that to be the team's identity. "Be a quitter, Kevin. Play it safe." Schwartz is all about being the aggressor on D. I would like us to have that mentality on O as well. Yet, I'd still like the QB to make good (or at least not awful) decisions.

If we miss the playoffs, I give him another year. Unless he completely loses the team, which I don't see happening, I try to keep things together. I don't see a better option available. I don't want a rookie HC.

If we win the next 3, how many excuses will you have? Let me guess, Schwartz will get all the credit.

I agree with you on the coaching front.

As uninspiring as KS has been after his first year, hiring another rookie HC to replace him would be completely asinine. As hot a name as Schwartz is right now, he's already failed as a HC in the past, making him a retread. Do we promote him and then retain AVP as OC? Offense is kinda the problem, but I don't think I can stomach the thought of a reboot on offense with the personnel we have already set up there.

before we'd fire KS, I'd at least try to let AVP call plays ... but I'm not usually one to say "lets fire him!" ... I think KS has some good qualities as a coach and leader, we just need to get the offense a bit more consistent

It's hard to have consistency when you have played 3 qb in 5 games. Once Watson comes back, lets see how things start to mesh. If it doesn't after 2-3-4 games, then we might be able to talk about a coaching problem.

Home sick today, so you all are going to have to endure a day of unusually frequent posting from me. Sorry in advance.


IMO, I'd normally agree with you but the problem in this case is that KS has been very consistent in his insistence on calling plays. AVP taking that over would amount to neutering KS. He'd be a dead man walking.

Also, I think the 'executive' type responsibilities of KS are his main weaknesses. The offense's biggest problem is generally plays breaking down due to 1 or 2 people missing their assignments. It's usually not a talent issue (especially if you ignore the last couple weeks where we've had to dig deep into our depth), and IMO KS's plays frequently have guys getting open... it's just that our O tends to trip over its own feet. That speaks to a discipline/coaching issue, IMO.

yeah I can't disagree with any of that .. I think part of me would just dread starting over with a new HC

I hope you feel better tho!!

You may be right, but IMO that article really isn't really something you can hang your hat on when making the argument. It starts with KS's fantastic first year, then glosses over just about everything until this past weekend. It drops little nuggets like "doesn't take advantage of the talent he has" as a sorta attempt to appear objective.

Here's my hangup with KS. We live in a world where Mike Tomlin hears rumblings about his job security from his fanbase. I'm not trying to lend credence to these types of things, but KS has spent enough time in Cleveland where criticism is warranted. We've been Browns fans long enough to know truly incompetent coaching when we've seen it... KS ain't that. But with the roster we've assembled, are we really supposed to just sit back and NOT say anything about his handling of the team when we're clearly in a window of opportunity?

I don't think he should be fired/replaced, but that also has a lot to do with not seeing a viable replacement. The absolute worst thing we can do is blow it all up. I've felt that way after the Ravens game same as after this 9ers game. But his defenders make it sound like he's above reproach, which is equally as ridiculous as wanting him fired, IMO.

Let me ask you, do you think an NFL HC should be expected to do better with Brissett and a poorly playing watson at QB like last season? I know some call that excuses. But that's where things stood. Do you blame Stefanski for Woods mishandling of the defense last year?

I'm certainly not saying Stefanski is blameless here. But what I am saying is that many circumstances he has been forced to face are no fault of his own. Being left with only a fifth round rookie and a former XFL QB when watson went down wasn't his call. Having no better option than to start Baker with a shoulder injury was not his fault.

I understand that injuries happen in the NFL. I understand that every NFL HC has to deal with those injuries. But the saying "next man up" sounds great if the next man up is a quality player. You're only going to get as much as that next man up has to give.

I think most would admit that Baker is pretty much a game manager with flashes of being better in very limited doses. But he still managed to take a Baker led team to the playoffs. Since that year he hasn't managed to have a healthy starting QB for an entire season. Not even for a half of a season. I think if one is being objective that's a pretty big part of the story here.

If Brissett had this year's defense, we'd have been in the Super Bowl last year. I have no doubts.
At a minimum, it would have been a playoff year for this team that doesn't end in 1-n-done.


Stefanski is many things, and "perfect" or even "above questioning" absolutely are not among them.... but, he does not need to be fired.
He absolutely SHOULD be nit-picked, questioned, doubted, etc..... but, he does not need to be fired.

I don't even want to think about starting over at this point. KS and AB need to stay.

If we win the next 3 games.
I expect to finally win the turnover battle
Our defense to dominate
Take late game critical situations out of KS hands.

Or him to start improving in areas that have been brought up numerous times.
He is by no means terrible and I think you are confused if you think I want him to fail.

I am simply calling it how I see it.

It was more than the pass that was almost picked off. That was another chance for the clock to stop after it had already happened and evident that there was going to be way too much time left on the clock when SF got the ball back. Ford ran out of bounds after just doing it a play earlier. Put Hunt in and say keep the clock moving.

If we go 9-8 and miss the playoffs that is tough to swallow. And makes a tough decision tougher
If we 9-8 and make the playoffs ut go 0-1 probably harder to fire unless major issue in loss

Under .500 dude has got to go.

If we go 11 wins or more.
KS will have improved in game situations
He & Watson will have developed chemistry and should improve moving forward.

I am prepared for all scenarios and the only reason I feel the way I do is what I have seen for 3+ years.

You seem to be right where I'm at on this. Stefanski is nowhere close to perfect but even if our d had been average last year the record would have been much different.

I'd love to see Brissett with this year's defense and culture

So the play call to Njoku on the called back TD was Schwartz? The fake QB sneak for a TD was Schwartz? Yes, the defense dominated the Niners, and that helped win this game, but the offense, as bad as it was, scored the points necessary to win. Yes Schwartz defense is the strong part of our team, and lead us to wins, but winning with a practice squad QB, down one of your best Oline, and not having Chubb to lean on, and still scoring on the Niners defense does prove that Stephanski had a big hand in this win.

What is so interesting about this list is the amount of time the HC has been with the team and posts on this forum criticizing certain coaches but giving Stefanski a bye.

Interesting facts about the list:
1) The bottom 3 HC's (Gannon ARI, Steichen IND, and Ryans HOU) are all rookie HC's taking over teams that lost 12 or 13 games last season.
2) The next 4 HC's 26-29 (Eberflus CHI, Allen NOS, Bowles TBB, and McDaniels LVR) are all 2nd year HC's with 3 of the 4 having as many wins in the 2023 season as Stefanski.
3) Stefanski CLE is ranked 25th and is the only coach in the bottom ranked 12 in his 4th year or greater with a team.
4) 21-24 consist of 2 HC's in their 2nd year (O'Connell MIN and Daboll NYG) and 2 HC's in their 3rd year (Smith ATL and Staley LAC)

According to the DawgTalk Message Board HC standards for retention, none of the bottom 12 excluding Stefanski should be worried about being fired because it would be disruptive to their teams, and they need a chance to grow and improve as a HC. This would leave one to believe that they all deserve at least 5-years with their current teams like many here think Stefanski deserves.

Berry has been great. Not sure why anyone would drag him through the mud. Ski just has no talent for how to use his talent. Thankfully, the D has Schwartz. Ski blows.

Well haven't you heard? Who Stefanski has been given to play the QB position has nothing to do with it. I mean WHT hell is wrong with the Patriots? Bilichick should be playoff bound with Mac Jones at QB, right?

Per his bio on that site: "Seth Trachtman
Seth Trachtman is a fantasy sports expert and diehard Kansas City Chiefs fan." ....and that's it for credentials.

Lol

j/c

I've wanted to give a couple my thoughts but have been extremely busy due to the new Fiscal Year.

Anyways. regarding Stefanski and all things said about him. Let's start with the basics, we, the media or whoever has a voice/opinion on the team or what the players are thinking only means so much. Really, it doesn't mean much (just like my opinion too). We really don't know, even things that are put out in the media might only be half the truth. One thing I want to bring up is about Stefanski and team culture.


What I do believe is watching what is happening and going by some of the actions. Here's an example of what I mean: Let's take the former DC Woods. Last year was a prime example of this situation. What we saw on the field: Defense looked slow, they looked confused, looked terrible, etc. What we saw from the players: Defensive teammates calling each other out, pointing fingers, and in many ways blaming Woods. Is this what you saw and heard too? I don't need some random writer telling me what to think about Woods. I am literally hearing and seeing from the players the issue with him.

Now every coach will have a little bit of drama with a player. Thats normal. Brady and Bill B. had a few and down the line. So, the Baker thing was nothing. OBJ same thing. Besides that, is part of who they are. Outside of those cases, how many times have you seen players call out Stef? How many times have you heard any real bad comments? J. Johnson, Miles and few others had no problem when they were frustrated with Woods. I would like to think those veteran voices would definitely have spoken out in these past few years.

I think Schwartz only brought the culture in tigher. One of the actions I saw of this was when the team came out of the locker room for the Niners game. The defense walking out through the concourse/tunnel with the boombox coming out as a team.

Stefanski is far from perfect, but I think he has the respect of his players and that is what matters.

Steve0255

I think one of the issues is Schwartz didn't bring the culture tighter, he defined the culture. We even had one of the star players saying Schwartz is having an effect on the whole team, not just the defense. I thought the comment was an indictment on Stefanski. I don't beleive that was the players intention, but it was an interesting glimpse into the behind the scenes workings of a team four years into the head coach's tenure with a brand new DC.

Here's the bottom line...you have a project manager head coach (organized, dispassionate, by the book, doesn't coach by gut or feel, doesn’t prioritize winning over process) who has done some good things and some poor things over his tenure, but the results can only be defined as average. He made a fortunate call to bring in a new DC and hit that out of the park. Keep stacking wins this year and make rhe playoffs. Actually achieve something and the conversation is moot. Don't and the conversation is warranted. It's not that hard. Win. Games.

If we lose to Indy it will be the typical one step forward, one step back that has defined Stefanski's tenure. It simply can't happen. I don't care who is at QB. Two teams at two completely different stages of their evolution with different goals in mind. The SF win will mean nothing if they lose to Indy...and will say a lot about this Stefanski lead team.

Dispassionate? You do realize a lot of great coaches didn't throw tantrums like Woody Hayes, right? See, that's nothing but spin. It's about one's perspective alone. One could say keeping your composure on the sidelines helps keep your team calm and focused. That being overly emotional under stress is a sign of weakness. So that doesn't make your perception a reality.

Stefanski is 3-13 after a win. That simply isn't good enough.

Win today and start changing the narrative.

Stack wins, make the playoffs, and there will be no bigger fan than me.

I think that stat, not only from the category of "stats that don't matter", is wildly inaccurate. He was 7-4 after a win in 2020 alone, so I just stopped tracking there.

Agree with the sentiment, just have no idea where you got that number.

I just regurgitated it from 92.3 who I think was attributing it to Ruiter.

Maybe I misheard or maybe it was incomplete and should only have included the last two years.

The overarching point is still there. Start stacking wins. We are getting further and further from 2020, what appears to be a lightning in a bottle season for the Browns where everything just broke right.

We did.

He basically Granted Watson another week to get his stuff together before throwing him under the bus.

We saw enough of Watson today to see that he's either not ready to play or never will be

I can guarantee he's not ready. I don't know about if he ever will be, but he's not ready to play now.

23 games into his "activity" with the Browns, he's missed 11 last year due to suspension. He was not good in his 6 appearances. And this year, in his ...........what, 3 1/2 games? he's not looked good.

Sure, sure, suspension, injury, another injury. 1 and a half years into his 5 year contract, he's played less than half the games by a large margin. And "rust" isn't an excuse anymore.

So far, terrible investment.