- we're up 20-17 with 2:05 left at midfield ... 3rd and 3 ... how in the heck are we not running that ball?
I understand when people say "It's the 2 minute warning anyways, so why not pass?" ... you simply can't let PJ Walker throw that ball
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
It seems like Stefanski calls the same plays with no regard to who is playing quarterback. If you have Aaron Rodgers, sure, pass on third and 3. But you have the worst QB in the league. What are you doing?
We need an owner down change. I think you have a fire sale now , knowing it’s going to get blown up at the end of year and get a football guy in here to build this
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
When it was 3rd and 3 I yelled RUN THE BALL!!. He passed and we all know what happened. Running it was the safe bet. A very tough loss and it really hurts.
Sad part is KS has the arrogance to think that PJ played well enough to go 2-1 and then proceed to move forward with him at QB instead of making a trade
Sad part is KS has the arrogance to think that PJ played well enough to go 2-1 and then proceed to move forward with him at QB instead of making a trade
I swear to God if PJ Walker trots out onto the field next week.
but let's not forget: our D STILL had a chance to stop them for a FG and they folded
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
This will be the pivot point of our season. We will assume, with authority, our joke status in the AFCN/NFL for the rest of the season.
Who cares? We’re the same team no matter how the names all change. We’re a joke. And we should be. 5-12. 6-11. Does it matter? The coach sucks. The owner sucks. The players are great but don’t give a crap.
I ask this question every year for the last 25 years -some point in every season….. I hey do we as fans continue to support a team we KNOW will only embarrass us over and over and over and over.
We’re the problem. They will NEVER be any good. They are the Browns.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
I agree with everyone on that 3rd and 3 pass play. Just RUN the ball. We all saw how the pass worked out. Doinked it off a d linman's helmet for a pick.
And I didn't care for some of the trick plays.
Look, we don't have a qb right now. Don't put it in his hands.
I can’t blame PJ Walker. He did his best, but he is not and NFL caliber quarterback. Berry and Stefanski not only can’t see that, but KS can’t even call plays to fit his personnel. We gave this game away.
We are what we are.. 4-3 and deservedly so. We could have easily lost last week if the refs didn’t bail us out, and if the 49ers make that fg, we would have lost that game as well. We should have beat Pittsburgh and we should have won today, but 4-3 is the best case scenario imho.
I blame KS for PUTTING Walker in empty formations, throwing on 3rd and 3 etc
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
But whose fault is it that Walker is our best option? That is the point. Wouldn’t we have won that with Carson Wentz out there with a week or two of practice under his belt?
Up 3, on the road, 2 minutes to go with a 3rd string QB and the 2nd best running Offense in the league and pass happy moron Stefanski throws the ball once again. He has made these types of bone headed play calls WAY too often. So sick and tired of it.
Defense looked clueless on last drive. I don't care how good they looked the whole game, they fell apart when it counted the most.
I am surprised hunt resigned with us since he runs well and Stefanski consistently puts them on the bench
But whose fault is it that Walker is our best option? That is the point. Wouldn’t we have won that with Carson Wentz out there with a week or two of practice under his belt?
yes you are correct ... but having Walker as our QB is not on KS ... that's on Haslem and/or Barry
BUT, KS did this team no favors with that decision
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Let's face it, we'll never have a true football organization as long as Haslam is the owner. We'll never look like the Chiefs, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens or even the Bengals. Every year all we do is hope and pray for an honest to goodness competitive fearsome team. There's no planning, no real culture and no aggressive players...just throwing crap out there and hoping it sticks. I've never been closer to giving up on watching the Browns and the NFL than I am now. Just so fed up with mediocre.
I told my son in law the same thing. Run the damn ball. If you don't get the first down you punt and make them got the length of the field. Instead our stupid coach calls a pass play with a 3rd string QB and put all the pressure on him. It gets picked off and we are now at their end of the field. Why is he so bad at play calling and making smart decisions? Common sense would say RUN THE BALL !!!!!!!
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
the problem is that we have Walker starting at QB ... it affects EVERYTHING else
it's a terrible domino
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
A 5’8 can’t see ford there. You know you have a 5’8 qb so call like you know that. Period
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
PJ Walker is a career back up for a reason You can't expect him to save the middle of the season He lacks difference makers at WR to compensate For his inability to be a effective starter. But because of Andrew Berry's arrogance, the Browns Offense is stuck with Walker
Njoku is really developing into a top 7 TE
I'm curious where posters like Versatile Dog are at To defend Kevin Stefanski now. Where's Homer's like Diam Dawg at now telling everyone How things are turning around for the better.
The Browns defense isn't as good as they were hyped up. The LBers lack game changers. The tackling in the secondary All of a sudden has gotten suspect
Can't wait to reas Eotabs what I saw thread tomorrow
Walker made the wrong read. This should have been the ball-game.
5 things. 1. Walker is too short to see Ford. 2. Walker cannot come off his first read consistently (missed WIDE OPEN Moore for a TD earlier). 3. Walker has been a turnover machine. 4. You have been running it with success all game. 5. See 1-4 and RUN THE DAMN BALL. It's all on KS and very poor situational awareness and play calling.
I'm all for throwing it with a average to above average QB ... but you can't let Walker try to win it
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
- we're up 20-17 with 2:05 left at midfield ... 3rd and 3 ... how in the heck are we not running that ball?
I understand when people say "It's the 2 minute warning anyways, so why not pass?" ... you simply can't let PJ Walker throw that ball
100% AGREE.... I had to turn the game off after that.... you run the ball 100% of the time there... we're running well in the fourth quarter... there's 2 min left... worst case you don't get it, make them use a time out, and punt... instead we throw an INT and give them half a field to work with...
just stupid...
overall, proud of how they battled... defense was pretty good... running game was pretty good... njoku played well... we need a QB and better play caller...
What’s even dumber is you could have let the clock hit the two minute warning and we called a timeout. So even if we convert we gave them a free timeout
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
We're just a QB away, unfortunately we always will be.
this should replace “there’s always next year” as the browns motto
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
What’s even dumber is you could have let the clock hit the two minute warning and we called a timeout. So even if we convert we gave them a free timeout
Then we would’ve gotten a delay of game, lol. Stef called a TO at one sec left on the play clock. The game clock was 2:02
We’re 4-3. We’re 2-1 since the bye with a backup playing QB.
It’s not the end of the world, and we have 10 games left. Road game against a good Seattle team and we lost a competitive game with a backup. It will be ok
Y’all acting like we’re San Fran who just dropped 3 straight.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
You have to take every win you can, and today was way winnable.
this is how I felt too ... we had them RIGHT to the brink of being down on the canvas ... time of possession was like 2 to 1 ... they were JUST about to fold (and that's AFTER we already gave them 3 TO's and spotted them 14 points)
it feels like a game that could really haunt us in January
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
If we run the ball and get the first down...Game over. if we don't get the first down. Punt the ball and make them have to go the distance of the field with 1:34 left. If Stefanski was any kind of play caller he should know that. I say he needs to hand it over to someone else. PERIOD !!!!!
It's too bad that no one in Berea can see how incompetent Berry and Stefanski are. But keep wondering why the Browns aren't in the playoffs. Just stupid. Very tiring for the fans. Glad I stopped wasting money on this garbage.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
It's too bad that no one in Berea can see how incompetent Berry and Stefanski are. But keep wondering why the Browns aren't in the playoffs. Just stupid. Very tiring for the fans. Glad I stopped wasting money on this garbage.
Same here, I haven't spent a penny on any Browns gear since I bought a Braylon Edwards jersey his rookie year, how sad is that?
How many players in the last 25 years would I actually WANT to buy their jersey? Cribbs, Thomas, Chubb, Garrett ... maybe Dawson or Bitonio
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
It's too bad that no one in Berea can see how incompetent Berry and Stefanski are. But keep wondering why the Browns aren't in the playoffs. Just stupid. Very tiring for the fans. Glad I stopped wasting money on this garbage.
I’ve said this for awhile. The best roster since our return was built by Dorsey and since then it’s gotten worse. There’s two sides of the fence. Either we aren’t drafting talent or it’s not being developed. It’s probably a lot of both which is why they both need to go. We are staying in middle of road by overspending on free agents. Berry hasn’t drafted a single playmaker and stefanski hasn’t made any of them better
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
You have to take every win you can, and today was way winnable.
100%
Because of this loss and the Steelers loss we won't make the playoffs now. Again. For the third straight year. With a talented roster and a "stable" organization.
Stefanski not calling a run on the 3rd and 3 is the perfect example of not prioritizing winning. In his mind since he called a play where people were open, it was a good decision and a good play call. No other factors to consider in his mind.
We are stuck in 7-10 to 8-9 purgatory with Stefanski. If he didn't have Myles Garrett we'd have a 5 win ceiling with him. He's never going to make decisions in the best interests of winning.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
What’s even dumber is you could have let the clock hit the two minute warning and we called a timeout. So even if we convert we gave them a free timeout
What’s even dumber is you could have let the clock hit the two minute warning and we called a timeout. So even if we convert we gave them a free timeout
That isn't correct. We called T.O. with 1 second on the play clock. There was maybe 2:03 on the game clock. It would have been a delay of game penalty.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
We’re 4-3. We’re 2-1 since the bye with a backup playing QB.
It’s not the end of the world, and we have 10 games left. Road game against a good Seattle team and we lost a competitive game with a backup. It will be ok
Y’all acting like we’re San Fran who just dropped 3 straight.
I agree. It was a frustrating loss. We would have been in a much better position to win if we had been able to punt the ball but it isn't all gloom and doom here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Hunt said he wanted the ball on the 3rd down play. Hunt said he had no idea why he didn't play the 4th Quarter. Hunt was running very well. Keeping his best players on the sidelines during crucial situations has been Stefanski's MO since he started here. Why even sign Hunt?
Stefanski's mind goes into bizzarro world when in the Red Zone and in crucial situations. I am so tired of hearing "This one is on me" year after year while nothing changes.
At least we stopped running the stupid reverse with Moore and now let Goodwin get the pleasure of running for negative 6 yards.
Season over. One more year without a first round pick. So far for Watson, 11 T.D.’s. $21 million per. We have no QB. No running game. An injury riddled O-line. I think we need to line up Garret as QB, too. Maybe then the Cleveland Muddogs can make it to the Bourbon Bowl.
The Season isn't over - still lots to play for and we lost narrowly to a very good team who enjoy a massive home advantage.
I thought overall the play calling was okay - we got pass happy here and there considering how well we were running the ball and how questionable PJ Walker's ability is. I thought PJ Walker had an improved performance for some of the game but he still finished sub 50% completition and the 2 picks. I'm not sure I can understand anyone saying they don't know if Brissett is better .... with better QB play we have a better record today, be it one game or 2 games better and that falls 100% on Berry. I thought the (first?) TD drive we had that went something like screen, screen, delayed screen (?) was excellent play calling design (not just because it worked - see below) but as the game went on the it felt like play calling got away from what we had done well and pass plays took longer to develop - maybe the D just adjusted? Other than the Goodwin run for a loss we ran the ball at about 4 yards per carry without any long runs distorting that average.
Defense had stopped Seattle all 2nd half - but not for the most important drive. I'd like to understand why / how that breakdown happened. For all the 3 Seahawk TD drives I felt that we were being out coached - their offensive play calling was excellent and varied and kept us on the back foot. At the very end of the game, like everyone else in the world, I thought a run was the right call - burn the 2 minute warning - kick the ball assuming we don't make the 3 yards - make Seattle face a longer field. Pshcologically it makes a big difference - as it was we gifted them all the momentum, a short field to tie and I'm sure all their offfense felt like they were playing with house money at that point.
While it's not the end of the season - while we're playing with a back up QB - I still questions Stefanski for the way we finally lost this game. For those that think play calling is good and it's simply a matter of execution - please explain how putting the entire game into the hands of your QB who is completing exactly 50% of his throws at that point is the smart play call? In my eyes - it's classic Stefanski: I'm the smartest guy out here mentality. Sure if we had a 6'-6" QB then Ford was open in the middle of the field, but we don't and Walker didn't seem to make proggressions for the entire game so why anyone thinks he's going to suddenly start IDK. Disappointing end to an otherwise decent game.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It's too bad that no one in Berea can see how incompetent Berry and Stefanski are. But keep wondering why the Browns aren't in the playoffs. Just stupid. Very tiring for the fans. Glad I stopped wasting money on this garbage.
Same here, I haven't spent a penny on any Browns gear since I bought a Braylon Edwards jersey his rookie year, how sad is that?
Unless you buy the item at the shop the Browns geta cut.. Apparel is a shared income between all teams in the league and cut 32 ways. The individual merchants obviously get to keep the mark-up after their wholesale purchase. So if you buy a NFL licensed Dallas hat at Lids or Walmart, the Browns get their cut.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Season over. One more year without a first round pick. So far for Watson, 11 T.D.’s. $21 million per. We have no QB. No running game. An injury riddled O-line. I think we need to line up Garret as QB, too. Maybe then the Cleveland Muddogs can make it to the Bourbon Bowl.
I don't think the loss of picks, at least these first two years have hurt all that much. We have lost out on 5th year options, but we have still drafted startable players. If a teams drafts 1-2 solid starters a draft, they are ahead of the game.
I will say that this might be the year where it starts to catch up with us. Guys like Newsome are getting close to the 4th year and we won't have the luxury of having that 5th year, but even then it is still a year away and the impact will be spread out over 3 years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
there's a reason why Stefanski called a run vs Indy on 4th down ... because that's our strength
Shoulda followed suit last night. The loss is really sticking with me
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
It should. It guaranteed no playoffs and likely a last place finish in the division.
Another season with no playoffs. Ugh. Meanwhile, the Ravens will run away with the division and make the playoffs for the like 15th time this century.
I am perplexed by Stefanski's playcall. No one plays to lose better than he does.
But I'm really crushed by the defense's play down the stretch. I thought a five game sample was enough to say it was legit, but in typical Cleveland fashion the walls came crashing down on what appeared to be a good thing.
We suck. Again. Can't get put of our own way. Can't adjust. Can't make decisions that impact winning.
Onto hickey for me.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I think Stefanski did a pretty darn good job with the offense. When we were down 14-0, I almost turned it off and walked away thinking "we've already lost", but this offense got us back into it.
Second week in a row, this defense is crashing back to earth. They're still really good, but if they don't get the big stop, they're giving up a big gain. We gave up a LOT of big gains. Tons of execution errors, and they somehow seemed to keep 9 in to block and still have 3 or 4 our running routes it seemed, lol
On their winning drive, there were back-to-back plays with facemask/hands-to-the-face against Myles that were not called. They weren't ticky tack, they were egregious, but no flag. They shouldn't have ever been in position for that last score.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
we did have some big positives yesterday .. Njoku, Moore, Strong, OL held up mostly
the 3rd down play call will haunt this season ... just my gut feel
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
if we are looking at the wild card, we need the Bengals to not look so good either lol ... they are humming right now
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I don't think anyone should be fired either. We played hard yesterday after being down early. This team plays hard for KS. There's no lack of effort just a lack of talent and experience at the QB position with DW out.
maybe his contributions aren't showing up in the stat line, but does anyone else think that ZSmith isn't doing what we brought him here to do? You would think that with Myles getting double teamed it free him up, but I just don't see him doing anything significant
They were talking about this on the radio this morning and heard it during the game. I think it is just the way she chose to frame her comment. Meaning, the Browns are not going to say anything definitive one way or another re: his injury. They could be thinking to themselves that he is going to play soon and then something pops up that delays it even more. Why commit one way or another when it has already been a rollercoaster?
I suppose we'll see.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
if we lose to Baltimore and Pittsburgh, the year is lost anyways ... we have no room for error
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Sad part is KS has the arrogance to think that PJ played well enough to go 2-1 and then proceed to move forward with him at QB instead of making a trade
KS isn't the one who trades players. That would be the FO led by Andrew Berry.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
- we're up 20-17 with 2:05 left at midfield ... 3rd and 3 ... how in the heck are we not running that ball?
I understand when people say "It's the 2 minute warning anyways, so why not pass?" ... you simply can't let PJ Walker throw that ball
This…….. PJ got away with one against SF. KS was defended by some who appreciated the aggressive call and would have blamed Walker had the INT happened.
Stefanski just doesn’t learn. The Browns have opportunities to control the clock and field position but will not learn.
Look at Njoku. Dude had a career game, huge play I knew Stefanski was passing because that is what he does. 85 was open. Didn’t even think of looking that direction.
The point is not that he called that play. The point is who was in there to make that play.
- we're up 20-17 with 2:05 left at midfield ... 3rd and 3 ... how in the heck are we not running that ball?
I understand when people say "It's the 2 minute warning anyways, so why not pass?" ... you simply can't let PJ Walker throw that ball
This…….. PJ got away with one against SF. KS was defended by some who appreciated the aggressive call and would have blamed Walker had the INT happened.
Stefanski just doesn’t learn. The Browns have opportunities to control the clock and field position but will not learn.
It's not about KS learning anything. He's SO arrogant, he thinks he knows EVERYTHING and is the smartest guy in the room. EVERY DAMN TIME. Remember, with KS, it's "about the process and not the results". Sorry coach, but the NFL IS a results business. And if YOU don't start getting the results, YOU are gone. Please don't sign this clown to an extension. Please.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
I think sometimes he forgets who the QB is at the current moment ... his offense is his offense, regardless if it's Watson or Walker.
in his defense, Walker has looked a bit better ... but he's still a turnover machine. I can't fathom putting the team's fate in his hands at that moment
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Until we can go a season without losing 4/5 games in this fashion, we shall continue to be the same old Browns. Every team takes a bad loss throughout the year. The Browns give up more than a couple and in many instances create ways to lose.
But we currently are 4-3 with a not so good Arizona team coming to town. Although we should definitely be 5-2, our record is not bad. We have a good roster and an above average D. A place kicker we have not seen the likes of since the great Phil Dawson. As well as Myles Garrett!!!!!
We are in a lot better shape than most want to admit. Looking to be 1-0 this week.
his offense is his offense, regardless if it's Watson or Walker.
And this IS the EXACT PROBLEM and THE reason why Stefanski will NEVER lead this or any other team anywhere. I firmly believe that to be successful, you need to maximize the potential of your players by matching their abilities to the play design. Stefanski just DOESN'T get it. He NEVER will. And that will be his undoing in Cleveland. The sooner, the better.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
People are just frustrated and some of that frustration is of their won making. I'm not saying they are wrong about that last O call. I tend to agree with them that was a bad call. By any measure they should have run the ball. But they just came off of winning two straight games most thought we would lose and it seems many are having a melt down because they lost a game.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Ok Monday week 8 is done. Who is on the firing line?
Belichick what have you done lately ? Your team stinks.
Shanahan lost three straight. You suck.
Tomlin -34 in point differential. One of the worst offenses in football.
McVay you have lived off one good year. What have you done since?
Reid how can you lose to the Broncos?
Any head coach now under 500. Give me a reason they should keep their job? They suck.
because all of the ones you named have been successful for many years with super bowls and deep playoff runs..Stefanski, not so much
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
I understand the benefit to running out of empty formations ... but it KILLS us more often than it helps us
I think we have to totally abandon that formation
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
However, stating an opinion and not looking at the facts does not make your opinion right.
Since you believe that he doesn't match players to play design. Provide examples. If you have a real case explain it.
I can provide plenty of plays designs made specifically for players.
The TE Bryant takes the snap. Everyone on the defense was buying TE sneek. Pitch to Hunt. Game over.
Look at the stats of Cousins, Mayfield, and Jocoby. Their best seasons were under KS.
Baker was a limited passer who had a hard time playing from the pocket and finding secondary receivers.
KS developed a two TE play action scheme. Play action allowed for counter roll to the left so Baker could see a number one and second option receiver.
Chubb an elite back was provided a zone blocking scheme. Allowing Chubb to use his instincts for cut back lanes. Chubb excelled in the scheme. He was kept fresh by a rotation to Hunt. Hunt was used for specific plays utilizing his skills as a runner and pass catcher.
So what do you have other your misinformed opinion?
his offense is his offense, regardless if it's Watson or Walker.
And this IS the EXACT PROBLEM and THE reason why Stefanski will NEVER lead this or any other team anywhere. I firmly believe that to be successful, you need to maximize the potential of your players by matching their abilities to the play design. Stefanski just DOESN'T get it. He NEVER will. And that will be his undoing in Cleveland. The sooner, the better.
uhh... Stefanski tweaked the Offense for Walker.
Anyone who knows anything about our play-calling will attest to this.
Sad part is KS has the arrogance to think that PJ played well enough to go 2-1 and then proceed to move forward with him at QB instead of making a trade
KS isn't the one who trades players. That would be the FO led by Andrew Berry.
PJ Walker is the equivalent of Shane Falco.
He's pulling rabbits out of his backside but he has no business being a QB in the NFL.
I don't disagree with you. So long as people understand who it is that signed him and who it is not signing an upgrade at the present time. It isn't KS.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Just watched the rest of the game, had to work Sunday.
What more is there to say? We should have ran when we passed on 3rd and 3. PJ bonked it right off his helmet. Good grief. It's too bad, it was a fun game to watch.
Agreed. I got that same sickening feeling in my stomach after watching that INT. yesterday that I've gotten for the last 55 years watching my Browns. Same exact feeling. I've felt it many times.
I've got no problem with KS. He called an exeptional game. It is not his fault that he is working with an XFL QB.
If anything, it is AB's fault for not giving us a reliable backup like Brissett.
These sentiments are confusing to me. For years we begged to have competent coaching, a good GM, and a franchise QB. People on here used to bemoan the talent on this team.
You never read or hear about the talent on this team anymore. I mean there are some game day overreactions. But are people really upset with the talent level on the team? Are all decisions perfect? No. Can units be even more talented? Of course. But that is true of 31 other franchises as well. The playing field is pretty level or we have a talent advantage for almost every single game we go into.
But we can't win our division. Can't stack wins. Can't make the playoffs.
And this is a Berry issue?
If someone wants to claim that Stefanski is handcuffed by the QB position I'll listen. But geez the HC has to.do something to impact wins when everything is not perfect. That HIS JOB. The game yesterday was winnable. He helped lose the game.
There's an interesting post on the OBR from someone who was at the game. Said Stefanski has very little interaction with the team during the game and literally none with the defense. How is that a head coach of a professional football team? The HEAD COACH.
We are in purgatory with this coach. He'll continue to get the benefit of the doubt because everything isn't perfect and his consistent 7-8 win, no playoff seasons will continue to get excused. It's frigging maddening.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
The battle between numbers, analytics and common sense – Terry Pluto’s Browns Postgame Scribbles
Updated: Oct. 30, 2023, 4:48 a.m.|Published: Oct. 30, 2023, 4:37 a.m. By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com
1. There are times when football analytics and human nature collide. So it was in the key part of the Browns’ loss to Seattle. They had the ball on the Cleveland 41-yard line. It was third and
2. A key part of this story is the clock. There was 2:03 left. Analytics says try a pass. If it’s incomplete, the clock would have stopped anyway because of the 2-minute warning. In terms of taking time off the clock, there was no advantage to running the ball. That’s what the numbers say.
3. There probably are numbers showing a team usually converts more often when passing on third and 3 than running the ball. Besides, the Browns had been running the ball effectively at the Seattle defense on this last drive. Seattle probably thought they’d run it again.
4. OK, that’s numbers. Let’s talk human beings. Let’s talk P.J. Walker. I love Walker’s resilience and tenacity. You can see how his teammates respond to him. Stefanski put together a good game plan with the kind of throws to help Walker look good. Heading into this critical play, Walker was 15 of 30 passing for 248 yards. He had an interception and a TD pass. He also had lost a fumble.
5. Here’s the human part: Walker throws interceptions. Heading into that game-changing play, he had thrown four interceptions in his 12 quarters with the Browns. That’s why many of you (including me) wanted the Browns to run the ball. Stefanski called a pass. The ball was picked off. That set up the winning TD drive for Seattle.
6. There are videos showing some receivers were open and how a good QB would have spotted them. No argument from me. But this is P.J. Walker, a guy who has been cut/waived at least a dozen times. This was not the right time to ask him to make a big play.
7. Walker had suffered a physical beating in this game. He was sacked three times. He took 10 QB hits. He kept bouncing back up. He kept encouraging his teammates. It’s admirable and it’s why I wanted Walker to win this game. As I wrote, it would have been a great story.
8. Maybe the Browns still lose. Maybe they would not have picked up the 3 yards for a first down. Maybe they would have punted, and Seattle would have had something like an 80-yard TD drive to win the game.
9. Instead, the Browns gave the ball to Seattle on the Cleveland 47-yard line after the interception with 1:57 left. Five plays later, Seattle scored a TD.
10. Coach Kevin Stefanski on the decision not to run the ball: “(Running) definitely was a consideration. There’s going to be plays you want back. You’re also looking to try to give your guys the best chance to go make a play.”
11. More Stefanski: “Obviously with the interception, with the outcome, you’re always thinking what can you do differently. We had options there. Certainly you can run and certainly you can pass it, but the result, that was tough.”
12. The defense also deserves blame. They had been dominant after Seattle scored a TD on each its first two possessions. After that, the Seahawks punted five times and were picked off twice in their next seven possessions.
13. But with 1:57 left, Seattle easily flew down the field: Five plays, 57 yards, a TD. If the defense could have at least held the Seahawks to a field goal, the game would have been tied at 20-20 and headed into overtime.
14. Now there are calls for Stefanski to be fired … or at least stop calling plays. I won’t go there. Stefanki is 2-1 with Walker playing QB. This team is 4-3 with Deshaun Watson out the last three games, and likely to be out quite a bit longer. But really, who knows when it comes to Watson and the condition of his rotator cuff – other than he didn’t practice last week.
15. Should the Browns check on Jacoby Brissett or another veteran QB as Tuesday’s trading deadline approaches? Absolutely. But I would have wanted to run the ball with Brissett and most other QBs. There are times when the numbers suggest one course of action, but common sense and the people actually asked to execute the play indicate it’s time to go against the numbers.
great article by Pluto ... it's how I feel exaclty
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
That being said nobody gets to know what would have happened.
If the pass play had worked we would not be saying anything about it. If they had run the ball there might have been a fumble perhaps due to Seattle stacking the box.
Don't overlook the elephant in the room. That dropped pick 6 would have given us a 2 score lead and probably sealed the win.
yep, Schwartz and the D drew up a perfect scheme (actually 3-4 times) to jump the quick outs by Metcalf ... that was our big shot
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Don't overlook the elephant in the room. That dropped pick 6 would have given us a 2 score lead and probably sealed the win.
yep, Schwartz and the D drew up a perfect scheme (actually 3-4 times) to jump the quick outs by Metcalf ... that was our big shot
That's not the elephant in the room, the elephant in the room is,
No Hail Mary Pass in the Browns final 4 offensive snaps
Not even an attempt. where would be the harm? I doubt anyone could seriously find a fault with a deep pass attempt in the final 38 seconds needing a TD to win the game and over 60 yards to go. And, the @uarterback? appeared to be healthy, the top 3 WR, of the day? appeared to be healthy, the OL, appeared to be giving at least a little bit of amount of time, that I feel certain an attempt could have been made. The Cincy game, they did and they won... attempted a few downfield passes on the day the forty niner game, they did and they won. yesterday at seattle, they did not make even attempts downfield, ... largely, and, they lost. < That is the Elephant , all over the room, like a bull in a china shop.
Elephant number 2? The Browns got robbed, there was obvious holding of our final tackler on their go ahead score. ROBBED, WE GOT ROBBED I tell you.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Please explain how a team is expected to win with the lowest rated quarterback in football?
I get what you are saying - and the injury to Chubb is a double whammy. But with the same breath as you write the above statement - and you can swap DTR and his rookie status into the mix - the question can be flipped to say please explain how putting the most crucial play of the game into the hands of the lowest rated QB in the NFL makes sense? It cuts both ways.
As I said in previous post - most of the game we had a solid gameplan. We got pass happy a couple times but recovered and got more balance... Seattle are a good team and their home field advantage is very real - but the call that ended the game for us was very typical of Stefanski. In the Athletic - their Browns beat reporter even wrote 'I knew KS was going to pass it' - as I reckon a lot of CLE fans did too who know Stefanski .... you can bet that SEA were somewhat expecting a pass too. So there was no clever misdirection and calling an unexpected play - then you add the lowest rated QB in the NFL - then you add in the momemnt and pressure ... It seems indefensible to me personally though I don't mind if you are anyone else disagrees, just exp[laining my 2 cents.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Sad part is KS has the arrogance to think that PJ played well enough to go 2-1 and then proceed to move forward with him at QB instead of making a trade
KS isn't the one who trades players. That would be the FO led by Andrew Berry.
That is a part of what one has to deal with around here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Don't overlook the elephant in the room. That dropped pick 6 would have given us a 2 score lead and probably sealed the win.
What a missed opportunity - but Newsome was out and that was the backup that missed the INT if I am not mistaken?
It was.
Many say that DB's are receivers who can't catch. I think there is some truth in that. If they could, they would have been made receivers many years ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
If it works. All is well. When it does not work. It is the wrong play.
Look at the play. There were guys open. He had three options. PJ never looked. He decided pre snap he was going to Cooper.
Njoku was open in the flat. Ford was coming open in the middle. The run could have easily been stopped. Then it would have been "why oh why didn't he pass?"
Three yards is a 50/50 call. PJ blew it. Sure the call could have been run. Who knows if it would have worked?
The defense could have stopped them and the game would have been won. They had stopped them the previous seven series.
We lost a tough game. That is the way it goes. I have heard people bitch about play calling for fifty years.
If it works. All is well. When it does not work. It is the wrong play.
Look at the play. There were guys open. He had three options. PJ never looked. He decided pre snap he was going to Cooper.
Njoku was open in the flat. Ford was coming open in the middle. The run could have easily been stopped. Then it would have been "why oh why didn't he pass?"
Three yards is a 50/50 call. PJ blew it. Sure the call could have been run. Who knows if it would have worked?
The defense could have stopped them and the game would have been won. They had stopped them the previous seven series.
We lost a tough game. That is the way it goes. I have heard people bitch about play calling for fifty years.
You're still not getting the premise of what he is saying. All the Twitter idiots posting about how wide open everyone was aren't getting it either. And the biggest issue is Stefanski doesn't get it. This team is 6-2 with a coach that really prioritizes winning over the entire sixty minutes.
Walker has repeatedly demonstrated he is incapable of executing simple plays. Through three games. Over and over. You are completely gashing the Seahawks on the ground. Your choices to try and ice the game are to run and maybe have to punt but put your defense in an advantageous position or pass it, with a practice squad QB who has demonstrated he can't execute simple plays.
How Stefanski coached the first 58 minutes is completely washed away by poor decisions that lead to losses in the last two minutes. He did a hell of a coaching job until he didn't. This team with a real head coach is 6-2 minimum. It's so, so frustrating.
The playoffs are a pipe dream at this point. Another wasted season. With ten games left, want to know how I know that? Because Stefanski is still making the same mistakes four years in. Guy doesn't learn. Hasn't grown into the role. There is no reason to expect different results.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
If it works. All is well. When it does not work. It is the wrong play.
Look at the play. There were guys open. He had three options. PJ never looked. He decided pre snap he was going to Cooper.
Njoku was open in the flat. Ford was coming open in the middle. The run could have easily been stopped. Then it would have been "why oh why didn't he pass?"
Three yards is a 50/50 call. PJ blew it. Sure the call could have been run. Who knows if it would have worked?
The defense could have stopped them and the game would have been won. They had stopped them the previous seven series.
We lost a tough game. That is the way it goes. I have heard people bitch about play calling for fifty years.
You're still not getting the premise of what he is saying. All the Twitter idiots posting about how wide open everyone was aren't getting it either. And the biggest issue is Stefanski doesn't get it. This team is 6-2 with a coach that really prioritizes winning over the entire sixty minutes.
Walker has repeatedly demonstrated he is incapable of executing simple plays. Through three games. Over and over. You are completely gashing the Seahawks on the ground. Your choices to try and ice the game are to run and maybe have to punt but put your defense in an advantageous position or pass it, with a practice squad QB who has demonstrated he can't execute simple plays.
There was also evidence earlier in the game where PJ Walker demonstrated that he locks onto his primary read, does not go through his progressions and ignores/does not see open targets. To think he was going to go anywhere with the ball other than to Cooper on than final 3rd and 3 was wishful thinking at best.
Unfortunately, this has just been gnawing at me since the Jets game last year, and I fear that I am right.
In sports you have people who are just winners. Guys who make the best decisions or the best plays and get it done when it matters most. This can be players or it can be coaches.
Stefanski is just not one of these guys. He may be able to win under perfect circumstances but he's not going to "decision" his way to a win. He's not going to "coach" his way to a win. Occasionally, yes he will. But not consistently enough and not enough to fulfill the team's goals.
And another troubling trend with Stefanski is the scapegoating. Now he's benching PJ Walker for doing exactly as PJ Walker would have been predicted to do. Instead of saying "it was a dumb play call, that's on me", he's now benching PJ. How many scapegoats has Stefanski had...Baker, Woods, Priefer, PJ, Brissett, Watson. No one in the history of the NFL gets more scapegoats than Stefanski.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I think everyone knows it's been bothering you for a long time because you've been posting that same thing for a long time. It's not some secret you've suddenly decided to unveil.
I think starting DTR over Walker is a mistake. Simply because this may do the kid more harm than good. Getting a kid shell shocked early can only serve to hinder his development.
But come on man. You make this sound like Stefanski is using Walker as a scapegoat. Walker just plain sucks. It is what it is. Show me what it is about Walker's abilities or stats that suggests that it is a bad idea to try anything at this point. You can't. At this pint throwing something new against the wall to see if it sticks isn't going to hurt anything since these are the only two options this FO has given Stefanski to work with.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Unfortunately, this has just been gnawing at me since the Jets game last year, and I fear that I am right.
In sports you have people who are just winners. Guys who make the best decisions or the best plays and get it done when it matters most. This can be players or it can be coaches.
Stefanski is just not one of these guys. He may be able to win under perfect circumstances but he's not going to "decision" his way to a win. He's not going to "coach" his way to a win. Occasionally, yes he will. But not consistently enough and not enough to fulfill the team's goals.
And another troubling trend with Stefanski is the scapegoating. Now he's benching PJ Walker for doing exactly as PJ Walker would have been predicted to do. Instead of saying "it was a dumb play call, that's on me", he's now benching PJ. How many scapegoats has Stefanski had...Baker, Woods, Priefer, PJ, Brissett, Watson. No one in the history of the NFL gets more scapegoats than Stefanski.
Walker has repeatedly demonstrated he is incapable of executing simple plays. Through three games. Over and over. You are completely gashing the Seahawks on the ground.
I don't want to sound like I'm defending Stefanski. I'm equally tired of his "smartest guy in the room" playcalling when it matters most. With hindsight, running it would've been the better choice given that one play vs the 9'ers and PJ's overall body of work. But the play KS dialed up had multiple open options, and his playcalling over the first 58 minutes had the lead with that same horrid QB. Stefanski's gotta own it, but I still think the people that say they're mad at KS for putting the ball in Walker's hands really should be mad at Berry.
Berry is the one that traded Dobbs and decided to gamble on DTR heading into the season. Berry is the one that will wait through the trade deadline while sitting on his hands (and by that I mean, if he really wanted to get another backup QB, he could). It would be a "loss" in terms of what we would have to give up, but teams that believe they are contenders take those trade losses to prevent what we saw on Sunday from happening.
I'm getting tired of Stefanski's shtick same/similar to you, but I think he did a pretty decent job overall given what he has to work with at QB right now.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here. Up until that that third down call, he coached a great game. To me, and maybe this is just my opinion not shared by others, but that third down call completely negated the previous 58 minutes of great coaching.
We cannot as a fanbase be ok with "aw schucks, we did our best" while other fanbases like the Ravens are in the playoffs damn near every year. Why is losing and mediocrity ok for the Cleveland Browns?
It would be one thing if Stefanski were 10 years in, multiple playoff appearances, a proven winner...he makes mistakes, you write them off and you lean on past results as a way to assure yourself it will get fixed.
But man, we are four years in, and no one, and I mean no one other than Brandon Staley, delivers more mediocre results with talent and with games in hand then Stefanski. And we justify and dismiss it over and over and over again. "Well, it's ok because he coached his arse off for 58 minutes!" Is it really ok if his coaching decisions in the last two minutes lead to the loss?
Every win is so precious in the NFL. So few games played. Every damn game nearly comes down to the wire. You have to recognize and embrace how precious it is and make decisions that PRIORITIZE WINNING. Not make decisions that prioritize that you can scheme guys open. You have to have a singular laser like focus on just winning. That's it. Just winning.
We are not getting that with Stefanski. This team should be 6-2 with playoffs clearly in sight. It's just so maddening and frustrating.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
even the announcers during the game commented that Walker missed Moore and it cost us a TD
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
You're right that we didn't win the game, and with hindsight a very big part of that was that 3rd down call. My point is that at least half the anger surrounding that call should be directed at Berry. Your best option is starting a QB whose play is statistically more likely to benefit the opposing team. Somehow the offense with that boat anchor around its neck was 3 points up with 2 minutes to go. That is a credit to KS that he now can't enjoy because of 1 call.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Any one else notice Dawand Jones not on the field at least the last two series? If could have been longer, but thats when I noticed, was he hurt and I missed it? Hudson played alright in those two series.
Any one else notice Dawand Jones not on the field at least the last two series? If could have been longer, but thats when I noticed, was he hurt and I missed it? Hudson played alright in those two series.
yeah he went into the locker room
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg)
