DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns News and Notes Part Deux

The rest of the season will be quite revealing, as long as he plays.

Well,
I figure it's the head coach holding him back, that the head coach has been holding the entire passing game back for 4 years or 4 and a half,
whether it was with OBJ, and Jarvis and Higgins or the current group.

It pretty much is what it is and you'll have to win in spite of it, b/c your offensive coaching cannot throw against the AFC north teams and the teams on the Browns schedule ,

Mary K was coming to the conclusion on podcasts two and a half years ago, that even if they signed what's his name all star WR, not D hop, another Deandre with an A for another initial? ... that they still wouldn't get production in Cleveland b/cause , the Cleveland coaching plan was holding the passing game back, and would always hold the passing game back, partly by design.
so, .. Watson has 0 300 yard games ????????

Heck who could have had many 300/ any 300 yard games ??
We tried a number one overall pick in Baker,
We tried about a dozen Weedens and , notre dame guy and Jff types
They tried a 4th round pick in Kizer and the other one ,

They tried about everything so maybe the coach needs to join the 2Ist century , Just

not this week, or next week, not against Pittsburghh or baltimores defenses, b/c we know how that ends up.

Did you hear the one about the 4th string OT on both sides? I dunno the punch line but I bet the @uarterback hates it.

Are drafts without trade
Jordan davis
Ojabo
Anderson
Mayfield plus 49,000,000
Will be happy to play you plus I have enough draft capital
To trade for montaze sweat plus young.

The assets were the picks. It was a straightforward trade. Picks for the player. What houston did/does with the picks is of no concern. What we might have done is useless conjecture.

As for the money, again, it has nothing to do with the trade. Had we taken on an existing contract it could be discussed as part of the trade, but we didn't, so it isn't.

You can continue because I know you are compelled to have the last word on everything. As for me, I know I am right and am not going to waste my time on this with you any longer.

I sort of agree - because as I said earlier the trade value/success is gauged almost exclusively on how good Watson plays as a Brown. But the threshold of success is high because of what you gave up - giving up 3 irst round picks for an average NFL QB is not good value no matter how you dice it.

In a purely speculative game of 'what if' - then the picks and the other free agent signings that might have been possible are relevant.... we'd pay anoher QB yes - but not at $50M per year unless it was Rodgers maybe? . . . . but that road is purely guessing and speculation as to what the team would look like. You can't use that to say how successful the trade was - the success of the trade is 100% on how well Watson performs. jmo

It's all about how it ends up.

That story will play out over the next few seasons. I just get the feeling the same people who made boisterous comments about Watson the sex perv, and how they would never follow the browns again are never going to see the return good enough to cover the cost.

Yes that would be the prudent and common-sense thing to do.

In most cases you would be correct but not in this one. You say the money had nothing to do with the trade while watson had a no trade clause in his contract. Without meeting his every demand there would have been no trade. As a matter of fact, if not for a second trip where this FO bent over for him, he wouldn't be here. That makes the contract they agreed to with watson directly connected to the trade or the lack of it.

And I know you want to claim that the draft picks are only "assets" but let's look at what the Browns value those assets to be. I suppose you must have forgotten how when the Browns traded for Brock Osweiler. they took on a 16 million dollar contract for what ended up being a 2nd round draft pick. That's when the browns set a value to a draft pick. Now if they value a second rounder at 16 million, I wonder what they value a first rounder to be? Whatever that figure is, multiply it be three then add that to the 230 million dollar contract. that's what the browns paid for watson.

Just because you have yourself convinced of something doesn't make it's right.

If only you had a clue of what was said, which you don't. I didn't say i would "never follow the browns again". I said that while I can still support the browns I'm no longer a fanatic. If you're gojng to try and make things personal, at least get it right.

And if a team is going to pay a player in the upper echelon salary, the return on that investment should be equal. If not it's a failure. I'm sure you understand the term return on investment. It sounds to me more like you're setting up preemptive excuses to somehow make it the fault of others if that doesn't happen. I'd be willing to bet there are more of you who would call him being average worth the price the Browns gave up to get him if he doesn't live up to his pay grade. Accountability seems to be something people use on a case by case basis.

People forget the value Watson also brings in the recruitment of players.

Players want to play with QB's of Watson's caliber. They do not want to play with Mac Jones or Zach Wilson.

If he finishes in the top 15 this year and we make the playoffs... it will only help with further retention and recruitment.

This isn't college. Nobody gets "recruited". It's a business.

Whatever.
And BTW some players want to play with a team capable of winning a title and they might take less money to have that opportunity.

There is no doubt other players try to recruit players and players seek out various teams. For that matter front offices do as well. To say the NFL doesn't try to recruit players is ignorant.

Correct. It’s common sense.

....or an attempt to start an argument,

Five B's, tomorrow on MNF , at this point,

IF the Broncos' Beat the Bills it Benefits the Browns. Nov, I3th.

No way!!

Shocking.

Hail, hail the gangs all here!

Who is trying to start an argument again? There are "players" who try to convince other players to join them on their current teams. But that has nothing to do with what was said. But hey, claim it was and then blame someone else for it.

The NFL is a business. Teams recruit players in college.

He even played half a good game yesterday.

We get the GOAT, Ian Eagle.

I'd rather have Marcel Marceau

Vilma was literally horrible ... aside from the one time we got Torry Holt, he's the worst

Really? I'm pleased as punch the Browns were able to come back from the jaws of defeat to win the game yesterday. the Browns are winning and that is the main point but let's not kid ourselves:

The Browns are currently paying 230M dollars for an elite top 5 QB.

If you are comfortable with having that elite QB throw for 213 yards and a pick 6 while completing only 58.8% of his passes, then so be it. Cherry picking his 14 for 14 stretch is just plain bogus and you know it.

Myself, I'm grossly disappointed and know for a fact that the last 2 QB's we had starting for the Browns would have had a better record than the Browns have right now if they had the same defense winning games for them.

2023 Browns passing: ranked 27th @ 185.3 yards per game.
2023 Watson passing: 185.8 yds per game with a QBR of 44.6

2022 Browns passing: ranked 22nd @ 202.6 yards per game.
2022 Watson passing: 183.6 yds per game with a QBR of 40.4

2021 Browns passing: ranked 27th @ 195.3 yards per game

2020 Browns passing: ranked 24th @ 221.2 yards per game

Now, if Stefanski and Berry wanted a game manager, certainly they could have acquired one for less than 230M fully guaranteed. I was under the understanding that the Browns were totally incapable of winning and making it to the Super Bowl unless they had an elite QB. Considering Watson's performance, I wonder what his record would be if he had to play with the same defense that the Browns trotted out on the field in 2022 and 2021? You and many others here made a living claiming the entire issue was a lack of elite QB play. Well, now we're paying for elite QB play and not getting elite QB play but sporting a winning record. We are currently in the possession of the worst QB play that we've had in the last 4 years yet thought that 230M for an elite QB was the only thing missing - well the performance proves just the opposite.  

yeah too bad 8 other QB's make more than Deshaun... you know, guys like Kyler Murray. we don't win that game without watson last week and all signs are pointing to him going in the right direction after a rough start. But make no mistake, yesterday in the second half was elite QB play.

• 66/97 (68%)
• 721 yards
• 5 TDs
• 1 INT
• 75 rushing yards
• 3-0
• 29 PPG average

I'll take that over anything baker gave us..

Where did you get those stats from? According to ESPN he is passing for 61.8% with 7td's and 4int's. And it has it listed that in his last 5 games he is passing at a 55.8% rate.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3122840/deshaun-watson

I mean I get he had a great 2nd half performance yesterday and had a great game against the Titans as well as a very sold performance against the Cardinals. But I haven't seen anything that reflects the numbers you posted.

post above, those are stats from his last 3 games.. it is in the vein of my statement that he appears to be moving in the right direction after a rocky start

In the end only one thing matters and with a W against one of the best teams in the NFL we’re suddenly a serious SB contender.

Hats off to DSW for his second half contribution. His remarkable turnaround from a mediocre to an elite QB makes me hopeful for the future. It’s 14 passes but every new journey starts somewhere.

He certainly is and I'm glad to see it. Thanks for helping to clear that up.

Last three FULL games. They aren't counting his 5 minutes in Indy.

Not telling anyone what to do but I never engage too deeply or frequently with the “there’s a black cloud for every silver lining” crowd. Some folks consider themselves “realists” but are really just default negative, they see what’s wrong in everything and they’ll suck the ever loving joy out of everything if you let them. I mean, I’m a realist and I’ve had a pretty dark outlook on this team at times this season (I was pretty sure we’d lose yesterday) but I allow my mind to be changed by new evidence. Winning feels bette Ethan being right, thank you very much. Doesn't mean I don’t know we have problems but who doesn’t? Yesterday was about as important a win for this team as any in past 3 years or more, lots of positive important things happened yesterday. If all someone’s got is “yeah, but…”, leave them to it. Hit the ignore and move on.

I can’t even go in the gameday thread anymore because 3/4’s of the posts are just “you’re ignoring this user”. 😂 For a lot of people their coping mechanism is to crap everything negative so they’re never be heartbroken or disappointed. No thanks.

NRTU

All I have to say, is that the decision to trade for Watson is something that I would not have done, but the Browns did it...

I am beginning to see some decent QB play. I would not have said that before the Titans game.

It's time to get over it and move on.

Business recruits top college grads all the time. The NFL, being a business recruits players. When a player hits free agency teams contact the players agent. Teams don't wait for the player to contact them. They fly players in to wine and dine, show them around and make their pitch.

Bubba, that is recruiting.

Just give it up.