maybe there is a reason why he hasn't been signed, but L.Collins is still an unsigned FA. He's gotta be better than what we've got, maybe we did contact his agent and they hung up on us, or he still has a nagging injury but if we're going to make a serious run at the playoffs we can't trot out Hudson for the next 6 weeks

Is it just me or does that look more like Wayne Brady than Watson?

I was wondering about Collins as well when I heard he was dropped. It’s got to be the knee. Or maybe he’s just taking the year off with whatever the settlement was. But a former probowler and 15 game starter on a playoff team doesn’t just sit on the street with no offers. Something’s up

Long may it continue --- but 'stats' can sort of be misleading sometimes depending on how you frame it.

For 4 of those 5 games - the DEFENSE gave up an average of 8 points a game. Thankfully in the other game Watson played his best game as a Brown and while the D gave up 38, we scored 39. Or I guess if you wanted to frame it even more lopsidedly - in 3 of those games the Defense gave up an average of 2 points a game.

It's looking like the Texans are winning that trade
That sent Watson to Cleveland so far.

At least they got Stroud with their pick and not ours. That would have really hurt. Was the 2024 pick they used to trade up for Anderson ours or their own? Or is it yet to be determined in a higher/lower of the 2 situation?

If Watson ends up working out for us, we could still end up winning the trade. Kenyon Green and Will Anderson being what they got with our first rounders wouldn't be too bad. Of course Anderson turning into a gold jacket guy, and Watson never regaining his form would stink.

Then again, I do need to look more at the other picks outside of the first round as well.

I don't think we should judge the trade based on what Houston gets with our picks - I think we judge the trade purely on how well DW performs in his years as a Cleveland Brown. If Houston knocked it out of the park with every pick - future HOFers and all stars - it doesn't really make a diffference. If Watson plays as well as he did vs the Titans this year for most of the games he plays - that's worth the trade and with this defense that will take you a long way into play offs most years. If Watson plays like he has for most of his other games while he was either rusty or hurt - then we lose the trade. If Watson play better than he was when rusty and hurt - but well below the Titans game ... then he'd be an average 'meh' QB and we still lose the trade. Finding elite QB's is really hard - but giving up 3 first round picks plus some for an average NFL QB just isn't good value no matter what.

I agree. If Watson plays well, it was a good trade. If not, it wasn't. It doesn't matter what Houston did, or will do.

You are right and we are going to find out soon.

If DW remains healthy for the remainder of this season. The march begins this weekend. This is why we got this guy.

Last year for the most part was wasted. This year the injury was a setback. It is time to stack good performances. We are still going to lose some games. But that should not stop the progress of DW as a franchise quarterback.

well, regardless of his health, he's on the clock, and was last year, too just as he has been this entire year. If you trade for a player, but that player is frequently unable to get on the field, it wasn't a good trade. It's unfortunate, and it may even have had a good probability of working out, but the result is still the same: draft capital and money lost for no payback. So the march doesn't begin this weekend except in the sense that he - hopefully - begins to reverse the trend to date. He's been on the march since he got here; he's just been marching in place. Here's hoping that he starts marching like a unit about to graduate boot camp

When you measure the value of a draft class.

Is it accurate to look at only the results of the first year?

That analogy is appropriate when looking at trades. In addition you cannot disregard circumstances that did exist. It was known DW was going to get suspended. The question was for how long? Those conditions were not clarified until well after the trade.

Of course he is on the clock. He is getting paid. However over 3k injuries occur yearly in football. Teams average 10 players per year placed on the IL or IR. You cannot ignore health like somehow that is the players fault.

If DW leads the Browns to the Super Bowl during his time in Cleveland. The trade was a success.

I also agree with this. Injured or not, you still aren't getting the anticipated results. It may not be the players fault, but in so far as the trade, that doesn't matter.

If you go buy a $60,000 Lexus, you expect it to be comfortable and run like a top. If it is always breaking down, you aren't going to be happy and question why you even bought the thing.

I agree Bone and stated the same thing on one of my posts. One Super Bowl victory with DW and the trade is a success. JMO

So the assets gained from a trade are not part of the outcome of that trade? Alrighty then.

It is only accurate if you look at ALL of the results you have so far, and those results, thus far, are not good.
So, if you're in the first year, and it is a #1 Overall pick that you spent a ton of capital to trade up for, then YES, it ABSOLUTELY is accurate, and entirely fair, to be extra critical of that first year.
Does it write the entire book? No, certainly not, but it 100%, irrefutably, does write the book to that point.

It is different is it not if the car is in an accident and cannot be driven?

I'm not sure how that relates to having acquired a car you can't drive. I mean you took possession of the car before it was wrecked. It's your car. But I think you're fully aware that a contract is something totally different. Those are judged by the investment verses the reward. Nobody knows how that will all play out over the life of the contract but we can see where the status stands at the current time.

As if Watson has been outstanding as QB1… smh.

Unfortunately, we weren't buying a Lexus for cruising the highways in. If we're sticking with the vehicle theme, we were more buying a destruction derby car. We knew it was going to get knocked around. It's part of the nature of its usage/purpose. Hopefully we've got it tuned up/"hardened" to better survive/win its upcoming matches and have worked out some kinks.

I can cite numerous examples where high drafted quarterbacks sat for a year or more.

So judging prematurely is nothing more than a temporary snap shot.

You along with anyone else are free to judge as you see fit.

Given the entire circumstances of last year IMO as far as "field performance." The year was a waste.

This year we are 5-3. DW is 3-1. DTR and PJ are 2-2.

Myself I will wait for this season to be finished before I will make any judgement on DW. His last two full games are encouraging.

This is year two of watson being here. And nobody pays 230 million dollars to a rookie QB. And of course those wins you cite had nothing to do with the defense, right? At least three of them most certainly did.

It isn't judging prematurely. It is judging on the existing body of evidence and we all get to do that because this is where the Draft analogy dies.
We didn't draft a guy that wasn't ready and needed time to learn an NFL offense and get acclimated to the speed of the game. We traded for, and paid a king's ransom for, a veteran with a previously proven track record at this level.
What we were rewarded with last year was a series of performances that would make a 5th round rookie QB look good.



well, gee, thanks for the permission!



His judgement is a continuous, ongoing thing. Thus far, he and his time in Cleveland has been a complete waste of time and resources. Period. It is on him to change that around. He can do that, but it is on him and there are no excuses. He has to perform to the level worthy of the trade, and that is something he has only done in very small and infrequent measures thus far.

"His time here has been a waste of time?"

And we would be doing what if he was not here?

His record as a Brown is 6-4.

Would we be in the position we are in currently?

Do you honestly believe that we would have a chance this season to win the North without DW?

What would you do with that extra 230 million in cap money and three first round draft picks?

NO!!!!

Waiting to find out "if" the guy you selected would pan out?

And in the meantime using a scrub of a quarterback you got from someone else who didn't want the guy.

Well, we're still waiting to see IF dw will pan out. He hasn't even played in half the games he's been on the team. I hope for the best. But judging him now is ok as well. So far, not so good.

And thus far we did nothing last year and are two games behind first place in the division this year. Usually people wait until someone has accomplished something before they sing their praises.

Well we could always get back in the quarterback line for the likes of Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Football.

I am not singing his praises. However, he has a record in the NFL. And we are one game back in the lost column (1.5 games back); playing them Sunday.

And IMO he gives us a better chance than where we were at quarterback.

Myself I will take the bird in hand over the two in the bush.

Oh he certainly has a record in the NFL. Now if your claim is that the Browns have a terrible track record at drafting QB's there's no denying that. But thus far the the juice isn't worth the squeeze. That's where the Browns are. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise or predict the future. None of us can do that effectively. But the Browns are where they are and thus far that isn't worth the money and draft picks they've paid out over the last two seasons for the QB position.

I don't know about the 230 million but with our track record we probably would have swung and missed with the 3 1st round picks LOL!!!!

C''mon, not even baseball would give a pitcher credit for a game if he bowed out in the middle of the first or 2nd inning.
PJ Walker won the game DW started against Indianapolis.

His record as a Brown is 6 and 4? ?? tell the real story, 6 and 4 through about NINETEEN games. how many? about that many,

4 and seven without him last year, 3 and 3 with him last year. ...
2 and one with him this year and , bowed out early..got hurt against Indy, ... then, they beat ARizona so 3 and one with DW this year,

2 and 2 without, him this year, Walker 2 and one, and D. Thompson Robinson 0 and one.

6 and 4 since he became a Brown in games he played the largest part of. and
since he became a Brown fifteen games he wasn't able to take the largest part in, so

yeah he's 6 and 4 since he became a Brown , he's also
SIX WINS IN TWENTY FIVE GAMES SINCE HE BECAME A BROWN. Oh my gosh, oh the humanity, the travesty can we say it like that. Can we say it like that.

300 yard games? oh my gosh? heck no, Expect one by the end of the year?? What, are you nuts to expect that from this offense , this is the Kevin 'negative 3 points in the first half' Stefanski offense, we couldn't possibly expect a 2 min. offense in ... once in twenty five years back since nineteen ninety nine, let alone ONE 300 yard game before the year ends; <
that would be nuts;;;; root for what we got, Woo Hoo, Go Browns, \0/ rip em up with the worst offen... passing offense in the league.
Offense? we don't need no stinking offense,

His record is 6 and 4 as a Brown. In Twenty Five Games, since the trade say it out loud.
Go Browns I want More. Woo Hoo \0/

Let's be perfectly frank about the Watson trade. Watson is being paid $2,705,882 for every regular season game the Browns play - whether he plays or not. Watson has played 10 games out of 25 scheduled games with the Browns. The Browns have paid $67,647,057 to date for those 10 games played or $6,764,706 per played game. There is no other QB in the NFL that comes close to making that kind of money per game.

To take it a step further, Watson has only beaten one (1) team that had a winning record when they played (Baltimore in 2022 with a backup QB). That means that 5 of his 6 wins have come against teams with .500 or worse records. Watson is currently 2-3 in games he's played within the AFC North. Watson has zero games played thus far where he has thrown for over 300 yards and only 5 of his 10 games have been over 200 yards passing. That's 50% of their games that Watson has played where he has thrown for under 200 yards passing. No matter how you spin it, those are not the type of numbers expected when signing an experienced Pro Bowl QB to a 230M guaranteed contract.

Neither I nor anyone else has a crystal ball to predict the future but to date, Watson is a shell of the QB the Browns mortgage the team for. I fully expect him to get better but top 5 elite seems it be a real stretch at this point in time considering his performance to date.

I will be perfectly frank.

We would not be in contention with a chance of winning the North if the trade was not made.

That's presumptive on your part. The Browns have never won the AFC North and technically are in contention the start of every season. Unless you have the crystal ball no one else possesses, the trade has not currently lived up to your presumption.

You might have the picks, but to be fair, you wouldn't have $230 mil since you would be paying some other QB.

We can include picks in the valuation, but going back to the original question, you can't factor in what Houston does with the picks. That doesn't matter. We can't factor in what we might have done with the picks.

The money paid isn't even a part of the trade. The money doesn't matter when talking about the trade. The trade was for picks. End of story there.

Ballpeen, I could not agree more.

It blows my mind that every time someone mentions DW it is followed by $230. It happens on this Board and across the media.

$230 million so what? When you sign a contract. You expect to be paid. Screw the NFL and the bs of sign here on this line for x years but hey we don't really owe you the money unless things are in our favor. It does not work that way in business or any other sport.

If you bid on this guy and agreed to the trade conditions regarding draft picks. Then the length of the contract should cut both ways. The amount is about fair market value.

Stephen A "well you are paying him $230 million." That garbage is echoed from damn near every "analyst" when they open their mouth about DW.

Look at he money all starting qb's make.

When it comes to what DW has done on the field. No doubt the totality to date is not what you want.

However, there are circumstances that should be considered. How people want to look at them is up to the person.

His last two full games are encouraging. The rest of this season should be revealing.

Or you may have drafted a different QB.


So your claim is the assets they gain in total makes no difference?


The money and the picks is the totality of the price paid to get watson. Unless the draft picks and that contract were not invested, watson wouldn't be here. Maybe you have forgotten that he refused to come here until they made that contract 100% guaranteed. End of story.

When you combine those picks in a draft day trade scenario, you'll never know who the Browns may have gotten at QB. So the whole "If we didn't get watson we wouldn't have a QB" story is a conclusion not based in fact. None of know if that is true.

The rest of the season will be quite revealing, as long as he plays.

Well,
I figure it's the head coach holding him back, that the head coach has been holding the entire passing game back for 4 years or 4 and a half,
whether it was with OBJ, and Jarvis and Higgins or the current group.

It pretty much is what it is and you'll have to win in spite of it, b/c your offensive coaching cannot throw against the AFC north teams and the teams on the Browns schedule ,

Mary K was coming to the conclusion on podcasts two and a half years ago, that even if they signed what's his name all star WR, not D hop, another Deandre with an A for another initial? ... that they still wouldn't get production in Cleveland b/cause , the Cleveland coaching plan was holding the passing game back, and would always hold the passing game back, partly by design.
so, .. Watson has 0 300 yard games ????????

Heck who could have had many 300/ any 300 yard games ??
We tried a number one overall pick in Baker,
We tried about a dozen Weedens and , notre dame guy and Jff types
They tried a 4th round pick in Kizer and the other one ,

They tried about everything so maybe the coach needs to join the 2Ist century , Just

not this week, or next week, not against Pittsburghh or baltimores defenses, b/c we know how that ends up.

Did you hear the one about the 4th string OT on both sides? I dunno the punch line but I bet the @uarterback hates it.

Interesting.


https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1723424499608011070

Are drafts without trade
Jordan davis
Ojabo
Anderson
Mayfield plus 49,000,000
Will be happy to play you plus I have enough draft capital
To trade for montaze sweat plus young.

The assets were the picks. It was a straightforward trade. Picks for the player. What houston did/does with the picks is of no concern. What we might have done is useless conjecture.

As for the money, again, it has nothing to do with the trade. Had we taken on an existing contract it could be discussed as part of the trade, but we didn't, so it isn't.

You can continue because I know you are compelled to have the last word on everything. As for me, I know I am right and am not going to waste my time on this with you any longer.

I sort of agree - because as I said earlier the trade value/success is gauged almost exclusively on how good Watson plays as a Brown. But the threshold of success is high because of what you gave up - giving up 3 irst round picks for an average NFL QB is not good value no matter how you dice it.

In a purely speculative game of 'what if' - then the picks and the other free agent signings that might have been possible are relevant.... we'd pay anoher QB yes - but not at $50M per year unless it was Rodgers maybe? . . . . but that road is purely guessing and speculation as to what the team would look like. You can't use that to say how successful the trade was - the success of the trade is 100% on how well Watson performs. jmo

It's all about how it ends up.

That story will play out over the next few seasons. I just get the feeling the same people who made boisterous comments about Watson the sex perv, and how they would never follow the browns again are never going to see the return good enough to cover the cost.

There can always be a time to bitch. Some just can't wait.

We are eight games into this season. And comments are written like "well DW doesn't have any 300 yard games." Like that is the definition of success. "Stephen A "The worst trade in NFL history." Damn.

Can we at least see what happens this year?

Yes that would be the prudent and common-sense thing to do.

In most cases you would be correct but not in this one. You say the money had nothing to do with the trade while watson had a no trade clause in his contract. Without meeting his every demand there would have been no trade. As a matter of fact, if not for a second trip where this FO bent over for him, he wouldn't be here. That makes the contract they agreed to with watson directly connected to the trade or the lack of it.

And I know you want to claim that the draft picks are only "assets" but let's look at what the Browns value those assets to be. I suppose you must have forgotten how when the Browns traded for Brock Osweiler. they took on a 16 million dollar contract for what ended up being a 2nd round draft pick. That's when the browns set a value to a draft pick. Now if they value a second rounder at 16 million, I wonder what they value a first rounder to be? Whatever that figure is, multiply it be three then add that to the 230 million dollar contract. that's what the browns paid for watson.

Just because you have yourself convinced of something doesn't make it's right.

If only you had a clue of what was said, which you don't. I didn't say i would "never follow the browns again". I said that while I can still support the browns I'm no longer a fanatic. If you're gojng to try and make things personal, at least get it right.

And if a team is going to pay a player in the upper echelon salary, the return on that investment should be equal. If not it's a failure. I'm sure you understand the term return on investment. It sounds to me more like you're setting up preemptive excuses to somehow make it the fault of others if that doesn't happen. I'd be willing to bet there are more of you who would call him being average worth the price the Browns gave up to get him if he doesn't live up to his pay grade. Accountability seems to be something people use on a case by case basis.

People forget the value Watson also brings in the recruitment of players.

Players want to play with QB's of Watson's caliber. They do not want to play with Mac Jones or Zach Wilson.

If he finishes in the top 15 this year and we make the playoffs... it will only help with further retention and recruitment.

This isn't college. Nobody gets "recruited". It's a business.

Whatever.
And BTW some players want to play with a team capable of winning a title and they might take less money to have that opportunity.

There is no doubt other players try to recruit players and players seek out various teams. For that matter front offices do as well. To say the NFL doesn't try to recruit players is ignorant.

Correct. It’s common sense.

....or an attempt to start an argument,

Five B's, tomorrow on MNF , at this point,

IF the Broncos' Beat the Bills it Benefits the Browns. Nov, I3th.

No way!!

Shocking.

Where is your smack today steve?

Keven Stefanski went for 2 with a qb draw. Guess who ran it in?

The guy who went 14 for 14 went it counted.

It wasn't Lamar. He is the guy with more turnovers than touchdowns.

Hail, hail the gangs all here!

Who is trying to start an argument again? There are "players" who try to convince other players to join them on their current teams. But that has nothing to do with what was said. But hey, claim it was and then blame someone else for it.

The NFL is a business. Teams recruit players in college.

He even played half a good game yesterday.

We get the GOAT, Ian Eagle.

I'd rather have Marcel Marceau

Vilma was literally horrible ... aside from the one time we got Torry Holt, he's the worst

Really? I'm pleased as punch the Browns were able to come back from the jaws of defeat to win the game yesterday. the Browns are winning and that is the main point but let's not kid ourselves:

The Browns are currently paying 230M dollars for an elite top 5 QB.

If you are comfortable with having that elite QB throw for 213 yards and a pick 6 while completing only 58.8% of his passes, then so be it. Cherry picking his 14 for 14 stretch is just plain bogus and you know it.

Myself, I'm grossly disappointed and know for a fact that the last 2 QB's we had starting for the Browns would have had a better record than the Browns have right now if they had the same defense winning games for them.

2023 Browns passing: ranked 27th @ 185.3 yards per game.
2023 Watson passing: 185.8 yds per game with a QBR of 44.6

2022 Browns passing: ranked 22nd @ 202.6 yards per game.
2022 Watson passing: 183.6 yds per game with a QBR of 40.4

2021 Browns passing: ranked 27th @ 195.3 yards per game

2020 Browns passing: ranked 24th @ 221.2 yards per game

Now, if Stefanski and Berry wanted a game manager, certainly they could have acquired one for less than 230M fully guaranteed. I was under the understanding that the Browns were totally incapable of winning and making it to the Super Bowl unless they had an elite QB. Considering Watson's performance, I wonder what his record would be if he had to play with the same defense that the Browns trotted out on the field in 2022 and 2021? You and many others here made a living claiming the entire issue was a lack of elite QB play. Well, now we're paying for elite QB play and not getting elite QB play but sporting a winning record. We are currently in the possession of the worst QB play that we've had in the last 4 years yet thought that 230M for an elite QB was the only thing missing - well the performance proves just the opposite.  

yeah too bad 8 other QB's make more than Deshaun... you know, guys like Kyler Murray. we don't win that game without watson last week and all signs are pointing to him going in the right direction after a rough start. But make no mistake, yesterday in the second half was elite QB play.

• 66/97 (68%)
• 721 yards
• 5 TDs
• 1 INT
• 75 rushing yards
• 3-0
• 29 PPG average

I'll take that over anything baker gave us..

Where did you get those stats from? According to ESPN he is passing for 61.8% with 7td's and 4int's. And it has it listed that in his last 5 games he is passing at a 55.8% rate.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3122840/deshaun-watson

I mean I get he had a great 2nd half performance yesterday and had a great game against the Titans as well as a very sold performance against the Cardinals. But I haven't seen anything that reflects the numbers you posted.

Can't help yourself can you?

You see 14 for 14 when every throw has to be made to win. That is what counts.

"the last 2 QB's we had starting for the Browns would have had a better record than the Browns have right now if they had the same defense winning games for them."

Really? And you know that how?

You see steve all your bs numbers mean nothing. $230 is called fair market value.

All you ever do is run for numbers to arrange and attach to meaningless arguments.

You know what counts today? The record and the way DW has played in his last three complete games.

But go ahead and get some more numbers and try to enjoy - winning.

post above, those are stats from his last 3 games.. it is in the vein of my statement that he appears to be moving in the right direction after a rocky start

In the end only one thing matters and with a W against one of the best teams in the NFL we’re suddenly a serious SB contender.

Hats off to DSW for his second half contribution. His remarkable turnaround from a mediocre to an elite QB makes me hopeful for the future. It’s 14 passes but every new journey starts somewhere.

He certainly is and I'm glad to see it. Thanks for helping to clear that up.

Last three FULL games. They aren't counting his 5 minutes in Indy.

Not telling anyone what to do but I never engage too deeply or frequently with the “there’s a black cloud for every silver lining” crowd. Some folks consider themselves “realists” but are really just default negative, they see what’s wrong in everything and they’ll suck the ever loving joy out of everything if you let them. I mean, I’m a realist and I’ve had a pretty dark outlook on this team at times this season (I was pretty sure we’d lose yesterday) but I allow my mind to be changed by new evidence. Winning feels bette Ethan being right, thank you very much. Doesn't mean I don’t know we have problems but who doesn’t? Yesterday was about as important a win for this team as any in past 3 years or more, lots of positive important things happened yesterday. If all someone’s got is “yeah, but…”, leave them to it. Hit the ignore and move on.

I can’t even go in the gameday thread anymore because 3/4’s of the posts are just “you’re ignoring this user”. 😂 For a lot of people their coping mechanism is to crap everything negative so they’re never be heartbroken or disappointed. No thanks.

Browns Defense

NRTU

All I have to say, is that the decision to trade for Watson is something that I would not have done, but the Browns did it...

I am beginning to see some decent QB play. I would not have said that before the Titans game.

It's time to get over it and move on.

Business recruits top college grads all the time. The NFL, being a business recruits players. When a player hits free agency teams contact the players agent. Teams don't wait for the player to contact them. They fly players in to wine and dine, show them around and make their pitch.

Bubba, that is recruiting.

Just give it up.

Swell post with swell advice. Some are apparently here only to be negative, provoke others, or just belittle other fans.
Two thoughts to consider:
"Critics are legless men who teach running."
" Those who can't build a bridge can only lower the river."
I am glad we won a hard game in spite of ourselves.

I really am a one game at a time guy.

However, you cannot ignore that. I was not sure who we had left besides the Steelers and Bengals. So, I looked.

My first thought was. I didn't see anything like the Ravens away. None ever look easy to me but at the same time. I wasn't thinking "ooh that will be tough."

I will be watching closely Thursday. That will be a hard game for the Ravens after playing us Sunday. Players hate Thursday games. Hard to recover that quickly.

Browns NEED to win games they "should" win. Has not happened much in the past. Let's hope this year is different.

the games we should win:

Steelers
Bears
Jets

the other games are 50/50 IMO: at Broncos, at Rams, Jaguars, at Texans, at Bengals ... that's still not an easy pile of games

I would add Broncos and Rams to your list.

Looking at the remaining schedule, I will be surprised if the Browns are not favored in all of them....Bengals could be the possible exception.

On a side note, love seeing the success CJ Stroud and DeMeco Ryans are having with a young Texans team. Fun to watch.

It’s time for the national media (and many others) to take the Browns seriously because what we have seen from our defense is SB worthy performances. If DSW and our offense can consistently produce 21+ points/game we’re suddenly a scary team to meet.

The culture change is about winning games like this.

Turning water into wine. When other teams realize that the Browns is for real then the fear factor will kick in. Suddenly our opponents start to doubt their strategy, change tactics, twisting formations, change team talk and so on. Thats the next step in our journey moving forward.

We rarely play well out west, and never play well against Denver or the Rams. We are going to have a dud game in there somewhere and my thought is it is going to be one, if not both of those games.

Every NFL game takes on its own personality.

The Chiefs got beat by the Broncos 24-9.

Sure you look at their records and all that, but it is so easy to lose a game in the NFL.

The shape of a football makes it bounce in strange ways.

Look at our year so far. Wow. Crazy really crazy.

I think it would be prudent, as Browns fans, to just take one game at a time. My level of excitement has risen also and I'm looking forward to every game but with all our past experiences I believe "cautiously optimistic" would be the best way to go. I agree strongly with the last 2 posts. JMO

Most seasons, I am normally looking ahead in the schedule a lot, but with the critical injuries this year I just didn't bother.

After Sunday I was surprised to see how "not difficult" it was. I didn't say "easy" on purpose. I really feel the Browns can win almost all of them, but also know nothing is a gimme. Someone mentioned we don't play Denver well, but I remember the famous "Put a little Pepper on it" call by Jimmy D when Peppers sacked Keenum (IIRC)when we won out there. Anything is possible,

Obviously, DW & other key players staying healthy could be the difference maker. It would be nice to get Dawand, Thornhill & Ward back.

Regarding the rankings, isn't it amazing how one win can change the perspective of the media?

This is shaping up to be a possibly very special year, but games are won on the field, and we just need to keep playing at a high level and don't read the press clippings. One week at a time.

oh, they're taking note, but I'm sure they're also taking a bit of a wait-and-see approach too. We're the Browns. Our history, even this year, is chock full of doing just enough to raise the hype & excitement only to fall completely flat.

If this team takes it to Pittsburgh and puts them in their place instead of flubbing it, then they will all absolutely sit up and take notice, because they'll have to. If this team doesn't, then their wait-and-see is validated because it'll just be another instance of the Browns wilting when we get close and being unable to take charge of our own destiny.

In short, for as big as the Ravens game was, this week coming is bigger because the Ravens game may have signaled that we're still alive and that we can hang with anyone, backing it up with a Steelers win says that it wasn't a typical Brownsian fluke, we're real, and it puts us solidly in 1st place in the division.

Not to mention that the Broncos are simply a spoiler team this year. Their bad enough to be an easy mark and be overlooked, they're good enough to hit the big upsets. Chiefs and Bills wins says a lot... they are NOT to be overlooked.

All teams focus on the benefits of signing with them. For west coast and southern teams they focus on the weather. A lot of young players like bug cities and the night life. ie.... Maimi, N.Y. and L.A. Some states have no income tax so they focus on that. Every team tries to use the assets they have which is also being a successful team to entice players. Those are what teams try to accentuate as benefits of playing there. Those aren't the reasons those players are playing the game. They're playing the game for the money. To recruit someone the money can't be the focus of their job. when money is the biggest reward of the job every other factor is nothing more than a benefit that goes along with the money.

You recruit people when money is the secondary goal. there is no pay in college football. The military pays squat. That's what recruiting is. Talking someone into doing what you want when the financial reward is small. That's not the NFL.

A benefit is an additional perk to the main focus, the financial gain.

I just want to point out that we are in the drivers seat for our own destiny this season. Winning out would be great, but I doubt we manage that. But we can win the division, and we are not playing for second place or hoping to stay in the wild card race with Thanksgiving just around the corner. Hell, I heard talking heads saying things like “If the Browns are the number one seed”…

Njoku wins the angry run of the week

I was just going over players on my yahoo fantasy football teams-
There was a note about Dustin Hopkins-He leads all kickers in the NFL with 86 Yahoo fantasy points.

This was a great move by our front office.

The Browns won the 49'er game by 2 points. Hopkins kicked 4 FG's in that game. The Browns won the Colts game by 1 point. Hopkins kicked 4 FG's in that game. The Browns won the Ravens game by 2 points. Hopkins kicked 4 FG's in that game.

It's certainly a team sport and many players contributed to those wins. But the difference Hopkins has made should not be underrated by anyone.

Kyle Brandt is awesome lol

and if our QBs would just stop scoring points for the other teams, we'd have larger margins of victory to go with Hopkins!

truthfully our whole offensive plan should be geared around not letting Watt or Highsmit wreck the game. No turnovers, sack/fumbles, etc and we'll win

While that's certainly true about one third of all NFL games are decided by 3 points or less. So with 9 games played so far that's about normal. And any way you slice it, whether you win by 1 point or 30 points it's still a win.

That was so fun to watch and when he said "nothing can stop him, fire can't stop him", I almost swallowed my gum.

Can’t seem to find any news on DWs ankle which got MRI’d yesterday. Anyone know anything?

Not yet

while margin of victory was mentioned, it wasn't the point. The point was that our QBs need to stop scoring for the other team.

I felt like I was watching a 1987 WWE interview. Dude needs to switch to decaf.

Unexpected. Yeah I would agree a lineman 10 yards downfield flying at your head would be unexpected. I expect Staley will be fined for that hit.

That's what I thought. His meth dealer must have some strong stuff.

JAG

/s

Absolutely insane that this wasn't a flagrant personal foul.

Has anyone heard results from Watson's MRI. It happened yesterday and I wasn't that concerned, but I would have thought we would have heard by now.

Somebody called him a trash kicker on the gameday thread.

The gameday thread is full of Karens.

There will come a day where I am feeling petty enough to wade through a couple gameday threads to pull out a bunch of quotes that would have otherwise been lost in the chaos.

Well, at least karma got Stanley back...

It wouldn't be petty. A few whiny ass bawl babies ruin it for everyone, and there are a lot of people that won't participate there because of them.

Yeah I can’t handle that stuff and I wouldn’t participate anyway because it’s just a distraction while I’m watching the game.

Perhaps someone mentioned this weeks ago but I didn't realize until today that... Browns are going straight to LA after the Denver game vs fly west twice. Decent idea for team building. Hopefully doesn't make Denver a trap game. 2 straight divisions games, Thanksgiving week, plus travel for a week looming.

Denver is tougher than we thought they’d be, so I don’t see us taking them lightly. We’ve fought through a lot of stuff this season to get to 6-3, we shouldn’t take any team for granted.

We're 7-24 against Denver lifetime. I would never take them lightly especially at their place. The only team we've done worst against is Detroit with Baltimore a close 3rd.

The lack of adult coping skills among members in that group is ridiculous. It renders it toxic. It’s like trying to watch the game with a bunch of 8yr olds. I’ve put so many of the individuals on ignore 1/2 the posts are “you’re ignoring this user”. I feel like there should be 2 gameday threads. The adult table and the kids table. You throw too many tantrum and can’t keep your emotions in check, you get voted off the adult table.it’s just a handful of posters, we all know who they are.

Coming out of the AZ game, I had to hold my excitement. That win meant nothing if we laid an egg at Baltimore. After a horrendous 1st quarter performance the Browns played some good football.

We need 4 quarters of solid play this week. We need to dominate the Steelers. Not an easy task, but if we can avoid the turnovers it is definitely possible.

Time to start tightening up some things offensively, DW needs to find his groove and build off last week. If that happens we could be in for an exciting ride.

I didn't bother reading it this week. I sometimes do for some comedy relief. It's often times like reading something compiled by the chemically imbalanced. I've heard a lot of our players be trashed on that thread based on a single play before seeing how they actually perform in the game. I'm pretty sure watson was probably being trashed as well based on his first half performance. While it's true he had a very poor first half performance, the second half was a totally different story and he was a big part of bringing the Browns back for the win. It's a true reflection of what living in the moment looks like.

Can he play QB?

Would it hurt to try him out?

He can play Tackle

Wow.....and it's not even close! IMO, that is a meaningful statistic.

The biggest factor on the rest of the season will be if the D packs it in or not.

I hope they are saying get on our shoulders and we will carry the team.

I think a lot will depend on how the offense performs in this first 1-2 games. If the defense senses that the offense can be adequate enough, then they'll stay fully engaged

Well this is where we need to start developing our own culture and identity similar to the Steelers and Ravens. They are the only teams I know that do not pack it in ever, no matter what. Football is a psychological game. If teams don't believe in their coach or QB, their play reflects that. Steelers and Ravens are exceptions and the Browns need to start carving out that same identity.

I do find it encouraging that the team played so well even when Watson was playing poorly. They really believed in him despite the poor play, imo.

I don't see this D packing it in unless the O just continuously falls flat so much and so badly that we lose several in a row because of them.... and I just cannot see that happening, either.
This D is in it for the fight. They aren't giving that up.

I agree ... we can take some steps as an organization if we can continue to win over the next 8 weeks

No quit on this Defense!

New Mantra: "Badassery!" Say it along with me. Keep repeating it. We need it more than before. Go, Browns!

That's a pretty good looking pass and catch session.

If we sign him it can’t hurt. He’s capable plus he’ll be like having another coach for our young QB’s.

He looks like he's about to murder the guy taking that pic.

As long as he has that same attitude when facing our opponents I'm fine with it.

He's getting dialed in. Got that dawg in him....

Was hoping for foles but I'll take Flacco over ruining a 5th round rookie qb

he looks shell-shocked.

Something must be up on that plane because there are a couple people that are shooting looks in different directions.

LOL, I just noticed the look on the older gentleman in front of him. Maybe the "He's not real" girl was on this plane also.

Looks like he's flying coach. If we were for sure signing him, he'd be in 1st class

i guess outside of Brady, probably the best option.. he's atleast played recently, and he's very familiar with AFCN

He had a PFF grade of 67 in his first game with a new everything against the best pass rushing team in NFL.. I'd say he did alright.

It’s only one game but maybe we found a good OT. Keep our fingers crossed 🤞

I do understand what you're saying and it certainly is a small sample size. But on the other hand it was against the Ravens which has a very good D. I wouldn't feel nearly as good about his performance last week if it had been against a poor D.

I agree strongly. He'll be a player to watch this week against another tough D.

That's got to be photoshopped...

j/c...

This might go down as an historic defense when it is all said and done.

The Browns and the Chiefs have the same record.

Do you know which team has scored more points?

That would be the Browns. 227 to 225.

Think about that for a moment. Mahomes and the Chiefs have scored less than PJ, DW, and DTR. That's right the Super Bowl Chiefs have scored less than the Browns.

We now will face the Broncos who have won four straight. Well let's see now. Beat the Bengals in the opener when they were considered a Super Bowl team. Beat the Niners when they were undefeated. Beat the Ravens who had two losses and Lamar was considered an MVP candidate. Beat the 6-3 Steelers with a rookie quarterback.

Is it possible that the Browns are as good as any team in the AFC?

Talk about upsetting the apple cart.

Short of the playoff win in January 2021 this team has done more positive things than all the teams since 1999 combined and we’ve had a carousel at QB. Do you think the HC has something to do with that. We’ll give Jim Schwartz some credit too!!

Steelers just fired Matt Canada ... after losing to us LOL

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
Steelers fired offensive coordinator Matt Canada.

So funny because on "Get Up" they are talking about how the Steelers will be fighting the Browns for the Wild Card.

Half game behind the Ravens with seven games to go and they have it all figured out.

OK maybe we have a prayer. There is a lot evidence in the stats people are refusing to look at when it comes to the Browns.

I like watching the sports shows too Bone. They’re entitled to their opinion but sometimes they don’t really know what they’re talking about. They probably don’t spend much time on our Browns anyway. They’re too busy talking about the Dallas Cowboys or another glamour team. The New York teams get a lot of attention too

The atmosphere around our Browns is very different than in the past as well as the outcome of some of our games. Maybe MR. Jim Brown is looking down on us and helping us out!!

“History Is Written by the Victors”

Dangit. Hopefully they hang onto Pickett, though.

I know right. Please don't fire all your bad players/coaches.

wonder who made the call.. many felt like it would never come from tomlin (atleast during the season) That GM might have to jump in and force the issue

Oh no! Hope they bring him back next for his traditional preseason role. It wouldn't feel like a Browns preseason without the perennial John Kelly appearance.

So the NFL leaders in drops of the entire NFL..the top two spots are both our players...Njoku leads in the NFL in drops with 7, second is Jerome Ford with 6...sad, as they aren't receiving the same amount of targets as others on the list (Kennan Allen, Diggs, Garrett Wilson, Tyreek Hill)

I saw a Pittsburg talking head say they had seen enough of Pickett and that fans want to go back to Mason Rudolph! Please let them go back to him!

Myles Garrett agrees

This is good tape on Dewand Jones vs. Watt.

This young tackle was a steal in the draft. I have no doubt that he can move to LT if the Browns want him there.

I would not do it this year but it is a move they could make.

Going into the Steeler game. I wanted this matchup. I knew Watt would struggle against Jones in pass rushes.

Jones has the feet to get into the right position and then he has that length. He gets those long arms on you and it is over.

He has that stiff long jab into the chest. It is like a boxer with a great jab. It sets up your defense.

I am super impressed by the play of Jones this year.

Bone...good stuff..

At the beginning of the game it looked like Hudson was going to be able to handle Watt but as the game got into the second half Watt was having some success against Hudson. Next thing I know, it's 79 at RT against Watt, pushing Watt face down into the grass.

Not sure if the Browns planned to play DJ sparingly to give Hudson some playing time or if DJ was dealing with an injury, but that RT position is better with Jones playing.

Watching Watt getting handled did this old RT proud.

Dawand was questionable to play before the game.

So going into the game I think Callahan wanted to use Hudson on run plays and Dawand in pass protection.

Dawand has been exceptional all year in pass protection. He is learning the run game.

IMO Dawand will be a starter no matter where he ends up playing next year. Conklin and Wills may or may not be with the team next year.

Dawand will be a fixture in Cleveland.

I agree Bone. Great feet, length, etc. All the makings of a future LT. Run blocking needs some work, but I would not be surprised if they transitioned him to LT next year. Perhaps, Jed transitions back to RT.

I speculated on one of my posts a while back that it could be the future plan to put Dawand at LT and was quickly ridiculed by a fellow poster. Dawand is probably at least as good as wills right now. JMO

The very idea of drafting players is to develop them and replace high priced FA's and high $$$ players on the roster to help manage the cap. A develop your own kind of thing. No GM hits on all of their picks as anyone can see looking across the league. That's just the nature of the beast. But man did Berry hit on this kid!

DTR must not play any more starts this year,

If DTR had been the only @uarterback the Browns used all year so far, the Browns might have been Winless, or nearly, and on their way to losing I4.

If DTR plays the final seven games, the Browns could go 0 and seven or one and six.

DTR = worse at @uarterback, than Cade York was at making Field Goals ,

and can it be more obvious, just OPEN your EYEs wide and Look at the evidence.

What are they doing, what is this Browns team doing, it's unbelieveable that they'd play DTR any more this year.

And if he could prove that wrong, ^
Look, the Browns' won't put him in position to prove that wrong, they really should be starting PJ Walker, or 'somebody,
but
DTR has been a part of your TWO>>>>> lowest point totals all year,

It's freaking nonsense to play or rely on DTR in this game, or on this team, or at THIs POINT OF THIs KIND OF sEAsON.

....
You need to score 30 points per game, and DTR is Woefully unable to get you more than I/3rd of that against even favorable NFL matchups.

Where are the points going to come from?
Where are the points going to come from?
DTR, is taylor made to Ruin your team, ... and he is UN>>develop>>able, between now and the end of this NFL season.

The Team, should, ^don't blow their current position in the standings because ^ this is obvious.

The team should =NOT stick with a known problem, but find a solution in a different player. PERIOD.

I'm sure the hope is that DTR will improve some.

Like the 34+ Browns @uarterbacks who played from nineteen ninety nine until twenty seventeen, I'd bet there was hope there too, but last week was one of the worst @uarterback performances, with allllllll of those incompletions, and bad decision making by the @uarterback,

if a @uarterback goes.. ten for eighteen,... then there were "8" that did not get complete, it is an unmentioned number,
and any tme that that number is large, or a large percentage of the total number of attempts, then you are seeing bad @uarterback play,
especially in the NFL.
last game wasn't anything we'd want to see happen again.

Throw, your point is valid but maybe for once we’ll get lucky with a QB. At least no one can say we never tried to get the QB position right 😊

We'll I hope the Head coach and front room have learned enough over their time in Cleveland,
I haven't seen the Browns win Twelve in the regular season in over ahem >40 years+ and, neither have they been in this position in the AFC race either, since their last, correction last +one, "home" playoff game in eightynine,
I Hope,
they've leaned,
not to put the fortunes of this team in the hands of an inaccurate first year <24 year old signal caller
for the stretch run of a playoff race....

for the stretch run of a playoff race??? have they been awake, has anybody in this org. been awake the last 40 years, b/c the NFL doesn't change 'that much, it really hasn't.

It'd be a shame to waste this position in the standings but you are one and a half games out of last place and not even getting into the playoffs
But as off today, you don't need any other team to do anything for you to control your destiny into the playoffs if you win your own biggest games,
and this is the biggest this week because you are playing not only denver but denver is the only afc west team you play this year,

Road Warriors this is one of only 4 road games remaining in the regular season schedule, and
There are only Eleven games to go this year, ... why not Win all of them.
edit , upon further review, DTR turned 24 last week, oy vey, Happy Birthday, and uhhh, C'mon team, we need veteran leaders

The Chief wanted to share his story

How he played against the Ravens is absolutley amazing and Brave !

Amazing. And it appears he has no scars from it.............

When I was 5 I was playing with fire. Outside, burning trash. Had seen my older brothers take a stick and pick up burning plastic on the stick, and use it as a torch. I tried it. The burning plastic fell off as I was waving the 'torch' around. I was barefoot. As I looked for my 'torch', I found it. I stepped on it. It stuck to my foot.

I guarantee that 20 yard run to the house was the fastest any human ever ran. It was melted onto my foot. Mom lifted me up and put my foot under the faucet. Got the plastic off, then straight to the doctor. 5 years old. On crutches. I still have the scar on my left foot. It was a 3rd degree burn. I can't believe he looks just normal now. Good for him.

Thanks for the memories, Mike!

Browns elevate QB Joe Flacco to the active roster

Browns also elevate CB AJ Green III to the active roster

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...4itH4M8n9DH80jWbOzN4P1E2c55g2cBWQUqLPRcM

officially Flacco time

Damn David Njoku you have some serious mental strength.

He is a guy who I will never question. Playing against the Ravens after that is beyond comprehension.

We drafted David when he was very young. He was a specimen of athletic ability.

He was probably the worst blocker I have ever seen on a football field.

Fans felt he was a bust. Inconsistent hands and a terrible blocker. He never quit working. He has become an exceptional blocker.

Until recently he has caught the ball.

I am a fan of his and hope he reaches all his personal goals.

He is also one of the few true leaders on the team.

In a different thread a few days back, a poster stated that he was strangely looking forward to seeing what Flacco can do. I am in this mindset now.

I was all in on riding DTR until the end (except for injury or complete implosion from the young man).

Now I truly believe that we will be extremely lucky to squeak into the wildcard based on all the circumstances that have been mentioned ad nauseum. Fielding our 4th QB of the season should, if nothing else, demonstrate how Coach will tweak the gameplan to, at least, a 3-game last gasp for a post-season spot. There's a chance he might not tweak it at all, or knowing that we are in for yet another sub-par season, he'll get less clever and tricky.

Rely completely on Flacco's arm and the dependability of our receivers, the opposing defense's pressure on the slower (older) man and Coach's possible mistake of minimizing Ford/Hunt - well, we'll see. I'm not sure that Flacco will offer some sort of wise, experienced leadership to our offense for the next couple of weeks.

But, now that I've resigned myself to another promising but disappointing season, I will also be strangely looking forward to the Stefanski/Van Pelt/Flacco version and if there's any difference in play calling.

I don't expect 30 points. Therefore as goes our D, so goes our wildcard possibility.

I don't love our defensive prospects today either because of the matchup. Two stud WRs (without Ward) and a resurgence at RB

I agree. I wish we could play this game healthy, I'd feel a lot better. Just have to play the hand we're dealt and make the best of it!

I think the "plastic" sounds like the bad part, it , when it burns appears kind of oil based and glue like, ' from watching water bottles burn in a camp fire' and that texture or whatever, cohesion? would have probably been what caused the torch to stick to your foot which would prolong the time of the contact with the hot surface which would have worsened, significantly worsened the degree of the burn,
and being oil like or glue like it would have prevented the separation from the burn without taking skin tissue, like trying to separate a melted cheese slice from a bun instead of a cold cheese slice from a bun, it wouldn't just pull away at that point.
and so that's like a berenstein bears book I used to read when little; of what not to do, where the bear would see a little twig poking out of the water and the bear would dive head first into the water and the twig was attached to a big tree log under the water unseen and he'd hit his head and then you would know what not to do.

Yeah, but then Burrow has things he can help teach his backup QB.

Jared Arevian must not have seen him on the field working with the QBs in the other games.....

I think this is bs honestly

DW was standing on the sideline during pre game warm ups

DW was also along side his teammates before the surgery

I had shoulder surgery and the last thing I wanted was someone to bump into it

Not sure if Burrows wrist injury is as bad as a shoulder surgery

I also noticed Conklin and Ward were not on the sideline

As Pit mentioned, what really is DW going to do to help Flacco

As of now DW is a Cleveland Brown QB and as a fan of the Browns I try to root for the players

Not 100% sure, but I believe certain injuries prevent a player from being on the sideline

So I really don't care what Burrows does, but stop hating on a Browns player

You don't like DW, that's fine.( not at the op ) But to try and make a division rivals QB look better than the Browns QB

Well there's a certain finger on my hand I would like to show you ( to the idiot Jared Arevian Bengals fan )

I read that Chubb was also right next to him when this photo was taken. So....

You mean like one has a set of post op instructions for a soft tissue wrist surgery, and one has a set of post op instructions for a shoulder fracture repair?

It's been a week since my shoulder surgery, Bicep tenodesis with labrum SLAP tear repair and I definitely feel his pain.

He is being chastised for not being down on the bench during working with Flacco on his first start and who doesn't know the Browns playbook well. Some think the optics are bad. It's the nature of the beast.

Meanwhile, Aaron Rodgers, Nick Chubb and other players/QB's are in suites.

whomever posted this has a vendetta against Watson

But hey, we need to run the ball...lol

there was only one instance where I was REALLY dead-set on us running: the 3rd and 3 vs Seattle

The debate is soooooooooo NOT about "running the ball more" it's about when you run the damn ball. It's not hard.

yep thats what people confuse.. sure you can run the ball alot, but doesn't mean you're still running it when the situation calls for it

If the opposing D has stacked the box, is it really called for?

IMO, this is about as solid of an endorsement of Flacco starting from here out as you're going to get. I was as curious and hopeful about DTR as anyone, but if Flacco can get other players to fear our pass-catchers again, sign me up.

Hoping Flacco remains the starter really doesn't have anything to do with being "hopeful about DTR". At least not for me. I am hopeful about him. He has a skill set and talent that could evolve into being an NFL starter. The thing is his time is not now. He is not far enough along in his development to rely on him as the starter. Not saying the Browns have any great options.

I may very well feel differently about this of the Browns didn't have a shot at the playoffs. If the season was all but lost I may see it as not making any difference in the grand scheme of things and giving DTR time on the field may not be a terrible choice. But that's not where the Browns are. They are in playoff contention and must give the QB which allows this team to have the best chance to win play. There's no question in my mind that the QB to do that is Flacco.

Oh sure there you go messing up an argument with facts.

Fear the Browns pass catchers again ?

Were they ever feared ?

The Browns are one dropped pass less then the leagues leader in dropped passes KC Cheifs

Chiefs have had 32 dropped passes

The Browns have had 31

Who's going to fear those pass cathers ?

Not gonna rise to some anonymous rando's trolltweet.

Exactly. Which one of our fearsome WR's to teams specifically gameplan against?

And in most cases the situation calls for it the morning after when results show the pass play didn't work.

Deep analysis on Monday. He shoulda run the ball it was third and one.

I am sure hours of film study was involved. Knowledge of what the opposing defense does in given situations. Knowledge of the match-ups.

Film breakdowns of pre snap looks and post snap movement of defense in man or zone.

He shoulda run the ball.

Browns fans

That could be. My comment was more general in nature. It doesn't take a genius to say something wasn't going to work after knowing it didn't work. We see that week after week.

I get you Peen.

It is others "deep analysis" that gets old.

I guess I don't get what the big hubbub is all about. So he sat in a suite.. So what?

Week after week...season after season...it STILL doesn't work.

THAT is the problem.

Check out the pic and tweet posted above. A BS slam piece.

Browns activate CB Cameron Mitchell from injured reserve, elevate QB Joe Flacco

Browns also downgraded T Dawand Jones to out for Sunday's game against the Jaguars

The Cleveland Browns have activated CB Cameron Mitchell from injured reserve and elevated QB Joe Flacco from the practice squad. To make room on the roster, the team waived QB P.J. Walker.

In addition, T Dawand Jones (knee) has been downgraded to out for Sunday's game.

Mitchell, a fifth-round pick this year, appeared in the first eight games with one start. He sustained a hamstring injury and was placed on injured reserve on Nov. 7 and was designated for return on Dec. 6. Mitchell will wear No. 29.

Flacco (6-6, 245) is in his 16th NFL season out of Delaware. Originally a first-round pick by Baltimore in 2008, Flacco has appeared in 184 games with 181 starts in stints with the Ravens (2008-18), Broncos (2019), Jets (2020-22) and Browns (2023). He has completed 3,904 of 6,343 career passes (61.5 percent) with 234 touchdowns and 148 interceptions. Flacco led the Ravens to a victory in Super Bowl XLVII, while being named the Super Bowl MVP. He was signed to the Browns' practice squad on Nov. 20 and made his Browns debut last week. Flacco will wear No. 15.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...Vj0Gi1XpHstPiOWpFRyBH6UfnUyaypEon1g43qu0

We are hurting at tackle.

Hudson and Christian are below average. Field conditions should be good.

Jags defensively are ranked 30th in pass defense and 5th in run defense.

I think that means we should run more.

championships may come and go but your teams identity only you can decide.

the running problem? seems simple,
Coach won't go back to a play that got negative a million yards last time they ran it,

b/c well it defys logic, ..

But? If it were LOGICAL IT WOULDN'T BE FREAKING FOOTBALL WOULD IT??

If football were logical they could play it behind a desk, dummy, now go back to the run play that didn't work last time and realize nobody knows everything and the players have to be allowed to play sometimes.

The problem with many coaches may be that if run plays are going for negative 3 or 4 yards, they won't stick with going back to those run plays because just because it went for negative yards that time doesn't mean it will happen again.
and
I 800 Healthy running back.

Full respect for David... he drove me nuts in early season... but man.... full respect... hoping he continues to improve

I agree. You sit where you can afford or are invited to sit.

If given a choice between a suite at the Waldorf or a room at the Motel 6, we know what room people are going to choose. Good gosh.

What kind of Identity can anyone expect from the Browns in their final five games of the regular season.

What are real reasonable expectations for this team with this messed up offense.

What I mean is, ... what happens if they don't win another game?

Reasons not excuses...
The offensive side of the ball?
Analytics?

at this point I think seven and ten is likely,
Hey, they began seven and three, they were 4 and I after the bye week, we can feel good about that,
but,
they aren't, healthy, e@uipped, or well practiced on offense, even if it were the beginning of a week number one matchup, let alone the final five of a stretch run.

What do you expect,
they haven't fielded a healthy team on offense, in twenty nine years anyway. Bleak.

They WERE a good team, they were,
Ten weeks ago they were a good team, when they traveled to Pitt on Monday night and had a 2 point lead, when they disrupted Tennesee after they did Cincy, they were a good team,

But today, is THE TEAM TODAY a shell of what they were ten to twelve weeks ago?

On offense? it's a joke, and an injured joke, I don't know where the points are going to come from, and THAT is what is so bleak.

Does this look like an aggressive offensive football team? Which is necessary to win games this time of year.

What IDENTITY, do the Browns have going forward.

They are one and two in the last 3, fighting to remain relevant, and the rest of the NFL ain't going to wait, for you to catch up, they will step on you while climbing over you,

Playoff odds are all well and good. I don't pay much attention to that. To me it's kind of like counting your chickens before they hatch.

I am not saying that to throw a dig at anybody but playoff odds can change pretty quickly with a few losses and or some team winning out. Just win the next game. We will know where we stand when we head in to the last game.

I see the playoff picture stuff and always loathe the fact that the NFCS gets to host a playoff game

Really, ask Steelers fans about the odds of them being 9-4 after they played the Pats and Cardinals.

Thing about the browns right now is that they run gamut in terms of who’s going to show up on any given Sunday. They’re very very inconsistent, mostly due to injury and personnel shakeup. But in front of us I see 4 very winnable games. And I see 4 very losable games. We’re riding a high atm and everyone is loving ol’ Flacco but this can turn quickly. I watched a good deal of him last year on the jets and he had a thing for giving the ball to the other team at key moments. But who knows, maybe he’s born anew and the magic takes hold. But the point is, external stats dont mean much to me when the underlying asset is itself highly volatile.

This is how I’d frame it: we definitely have to win 2, maybe 3. We don’t want to go to Baltimore in game 1 so it’s pretty critical we come away with the 5 or 6 seed. So 3 or 4 wins.

it depends which two we win ... if we win in Cincy and Houston? we're a lock

If we win vs Chicago and the Jets, not so much

If you're still moving the ball even when they stack it, do you still move away from it?

That depends on the opportunities that them stacking the box opens up downfield. If stacking the box exposes the middle of the field wide open, yes, you take advantage of that.

Yeah... fair point.

I would argue that Njoku was well on his way until his recent bout of stonehands-itis. Cooper is a reliable route-runner that can make the tough catch. So far, Moore hasn't lived up to the post-trade hype.

Eli has started to produce because he’s feeding off Flacco. The old guy is chucking the football around the ballpark. If we can get to the playoffs we can beat anyone.

No "lock" unless you remain 2nd in the div. not 3rd or 4th. which could happen if Pitt beats Cincy, then Balt. takes a dive in final week against pitt. Pitt would then have the tie break over Cleveland, five and one vs. 4 and 2 in the div. record.

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-tie-breaking-procedures/

could move the Browns form fifth, to eleventh in the afc >>>> in one outcome, of a different game.

all you can beat this week is Chicago, Need every game.

After last night's games looking at the Standings is pretty amazing.

The Niners and Ravens are the number one seeds. We beat both of them.

Here we are on Dec.12th in full control of our destiny. We actually could not only win the division but also have the number one seed.

Four games to play and I take no game team in the NFL lightly. We still have a lot of work. But damn it feels good to be right in the middle of the NFL world instead of looking at the Draft.

Especially, since once again they have no first round pick.

Right now I am all in on this season. No matter what happens. It has been thrilling.

The games have been gut wrenching. When these close games are over. I am exhausted. Need to take a shower because I stink.

Game day I am trying to be calm. All good unless it is one of those games. Then it is like I was playing.

I don't even want to think about the draft and next year.

That my friend is a damn good thing.

I always live in the moment while at the same time keeping an eye out on the future. If not I feel I would miss the enjoyment of the moment and also not be prepared for the future if I focused all of my attention on one or the other. I'm simply saying that if the draft were all Browns fans had to "look forward to" right now, to some extent even that would be discouraging.

Because I’m lazy can someone tell me what the hell our offense line looks like now? Who are our starters left to right? One thing Flacco will definitely need is protection.

We are making the playoffs with our entire 3rd string! Yippie!!!

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
6m
#Browns left tackle Jed Wills Jr. underwent arthroscopic surgery this morning and is out for the season, source says

LT: Christian
LG: Bitonio
C: Harris
RG: Teller
RT: Hudson

Flacco is a 100% pocket passer who excels with protection. We need to do whatever it takes to protect him if we want any shot at the playoffs.

The season is only 8 more games, even if you win them all.

There are 4 teams in the AFC that are not going to make the playoffs that are in the mix or ahead of the line today.

and, It is likely 2 of those will be afc north teams, really,
Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh are fighting for ONE playoff spot, Whoever ends 2nd behind Baltimore,
because the other AFC teams won't let up and have easier schedules.

The Browns could still very well miss the playoffs.

Browns remaining schedule

Bears
At Texans
Ny Jets Thur.
At Cincinnati,

I want to make a comment to this, but I’m not about to jinx it more than it’s already been this season.

4th string now lol

Yes and no. He's certainly not a rushing threat, that's for sure. And he does excel with protection. However what I have been surprised by is his escapability. Both in being able to sidestep pressure, maintain his balance while delivering the ball with defenders draping onto him due to his size and strength and his ability to just read the coverage quickly and seemingly just flip the ball out with little to no effort 30 yards downfield.

He's not a top NFL QB but he's helping put points on the board like they couldn't do before and is leaps and bounds better than anything else they have.

Not really Browns news but football news.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...mp;mb_edition=20231213&mb_loc=left_h

Sure sounds like the parting of the Patriot Way.

Not sure if Bill would consider another head coaching position?

When you don't have an answer at quarterback. Your days are numbered. Tomlin as far as their fans are concerned is another guy on a very short leash.

I think we at best have barely 2 wins left due to attrition. Chicago and NY.

Chicago just destroyed the Lions, so I wouldn't chalk it up as anything for certain.

Are we going 0-4 to finish it out?

Titans just beat the Dolphins.

There are no gimmies in the NFL.

Fields can run that always can be a problem. The Lions have just won their last two games against the Vikings and the Lions.

We don't have a starting team any longer.

You do have a starting team, the players who start for you ARE your starters, you have the best team in the NFL.

Positive outlook , We want Moore.

How about this Positive scenario, AFC playoff seeding,
I KC, twelve and five
2. Baltimore twelve and five
3, Miami, eleven and six
4. Indianapolis Eleven and six
five, Denver, Eleven and six
6. Browns, Ten and seven
seven Cincy, Ten and seven, ... Jaguars lose 3 of 4,

Browns at Miami, Browns Win
Cincy at Baltimore, ... Cincy wins
Denver at Indianapolis, Denver wins < wild card round

Divisional round,
Cincinnati at KC, Cincinnati wins
Browns at Denver, Browns win... And what would that set up my friends?

Your Cleveland Browns HOSTING the AFC Championship game against lowly Cincy, two wild card teams, played in Cleveland Browns stadium, Browns WIN,

and go on to face, the ...
Cowboys in the super bowl, where the Browns would WIN.
In epic fashion knocking off a cowboy team that had won I3 straight and fifteen and one in their last I6.

Making Your 2023 Browns the greatest team in NFL history.

we have an old gunslinger who rode into town to set things right. We’ve gone from run-first to chucking the pigskin around the park, because we have to.

Browns sign veteran safety.

Good. Somebody has to play safety.

If there’s some sorta potential magic thing that happens with this team from now on it’ll be because there really is no realistic expectation that they’re supposed to win at all at this point. I mean, no one can look at our situation and think it’s just a normal late season set of injury issues. It’s like the football gods chucked a couple grenades in our locker room. I can’t remember it ever being this bad. We’re combing the waiver wire for whole position groups. I still don’t know what the OL looks like that’s protecting our 57yr QB.

So, maybe we play fast and loose, dirt-lot ball, take chances, big gambles, just play for the fun of it. I hope so anyway. Would hate to see them go out all tight sphinctered like the chargers last night (who’ve also have some pretty horrendous injury issues). I mean, even if we do make the playoffs we’re fielding a team where something approaching half the players haven’t taken starter reps in practice like ever. So you play it to make the other team play like crap, be super unpredictable, have fun. No one wants to fight someone who has nothing to lose and is capable of anything. Maybe we lose a couple in blow outs but maybe not. It’ll be interesting to see how the next 4 weeks play out but I’ll be exceeding suprised, nay, shocked if we win more than 2 of them.

Why would they go out all tight and nervous? First game of the year they lost their starting RT. Next game their pro-bowl RB. QB & OL has been a turnstile. DB room is down.

It's been like this all year and the coaches have done a very good job of focusing on the next game. WE are 8-5 and numerous posters on here predicted we would win 5-7 games all year, without the crazy injury situation.

If anything, the team should feel confident because of the success they have had despite previous injuries. I don't think pro players, for the most part, are doom and gloom. They have to have a level of confidence.

But who knows, really? It could all come tumbling down tomorrow. But that si no reason to run scared and abandon your normal game plans.

57 is the new 38?

Hey Pit my friend

We are both past that

Lets not bring that up

LOL

I think you bring up a good point.

How do the players react to the load of injuries? If a player is second or third string on the depth chart. He is schooled with the idea that his number can be called at any time. He has to prepare that way. He must know his playbook and the game plan for the team they are playing. He has to study film on the opponent.

These guys have been on the team usually for the whole year. They have trained and worked hard. They want the opportunity to play and contribute.

They have a position coach. They are in a room with players from their unit. They have resources to help them be ready to go.

Until they get their chance to play. We really do not know how they will do. Maybe Hickman and D'A Bell will do fine?

For myself I have learned over time to not have game expectations. Turn on the game and see what happens.

The passing D as a group does better when DZ Ward doesn't play, and I think a set of times has shown that,
but, individually DZ Ward is a really good CB and for that they want to play him,
As Unpopular as noticing that they play better when he's out may be, I think it's notable.
anyway, he's returning,
so that's ehhh maybe a good thing. facepalm.

If the Bills win out, b/c easy chargers, raiders? whomever,
and if Cincy wins out b/c they have to, one more loss about ends them b/c they have no afc record or div record favorable,

and if one of the Colts, and Texans stays with the jaguars

then a very good ten and seven Browns team could miss the playoffs b/c cincy ended up eleven and six and the Browns ended 3rd in the afc north,
but
Well, if there is only a 2 way tie for a particular playoff spot ,
if it were the bills and Browns


the tie breaker would be, or could end up common games minimum 4 which would include the jets and the bengals

so basically, Winning that final game in Cincinnati,
just like the NFL always wanted, and despite all your hard work so far,
may end up being the ole
If you win you get into the playoffs, but if you don't your year is over.
even if you have ten wins going into it,

the AFC SUCKS to be a part of, and the AFC North Double so

... Hey report is Aaron Rogerz may be back in time to play against the Browns, who would have thought it,

What is going at the Njoku house???

lol my goodness David ... get some better home safety

He should just consider moving out of that house.

David should consider calling Steve DiSchiavi and Amy Allan from that show The Dead Files to check his house out!!!

Falcons sign Tommy Togiai off Browns practice squad


Link

Bummer. I thought he played decently last year but I admit I didn’t pay a ton of attention. I’m surprised he hadn’t played at all this year.

Togai was really really bad.. i didn't know we put him on the PS, I thought we released him

We kept him, but no doubt he was just a guy. We can replace him with maybe 6 dozen other guys floating around out there.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

j/c...



The story of the toy pickup trucks earned by Browns players and how it's fostered camaraderie within the team

By: Camryn Justice
Posted at 6:57 PM, Dec 21, 2023
and last updated 6:57 PM, Dec 21, 2023

BEREA, Ohio — Sitting in the Browns meeting rooms, you might see a toy pickup truck lying around. It might seem out of place in an NFL building, but those trucks are hard-earned currency for the players who get them.

Every week, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt tracks pickups—when a player helps his teammates up after a play. Pelt sees that as a crucial stat that doesn't show up on the box score but changes the dynamic of a team.

"When I played, I always tried to be the first one to help guys up off the field. That's just something I always believed in. The tighter the group, the more success you have and that's just something that I've always done and these guys have all bought in across the board, as a team, and it's awesome to see. You hate to see a guy lay there and then guys walk away and we won't put that on film," Van Pelt said.

So, to foster that and encourage pickups, Van Pelt created a reward system.

After a game, the offensive coordinator goes back and counts the players who helped their teammates up after a play. The player who has the most that week earns a toy pickup truck.

Plenty of players have earned themselves a toy truck because this team is all about camaraderie, but a few have led the team in pickups and have had a unique trophy of sorts to display to their peers.

On the offensive line, Ethan Pocic has earned himself a truck. In the running backs room, Jerome Ford always lends a hand when it's not him being picked up after a run. But the overall winner has been tight end David Njoku, who is always there with his hand out, ready to support his teammates.

"Dave's probably had five or six on the season so far. He won one last week as well as did Harry. So our tight end group had a ton of pickups and that's what we are all about, that when we play connected as a unit and as a team and we play for each other," Van Pelt said.

Njoku said it's not so much about getting the trucks, which he said he might give to his daughter, but more about showing appreciation for his teammates.

"I wouldn't say that the pride comes from getting the truck. I'd say it comes from just making sure that nobody, none of us get up by ourselves. I think we take great pride in that," Njoku said.

The team sees that effort and acknowledges how impactful it truly is.

"He’s a positive force in this building, both on the practice field, in the locker room, on the game field. He brings such great energy to this team. And when I say that specifically, he picks his teammates up more than anybody on our team," said head coach Kevin Stefanski.

But it goes beyond helping his teammates off the ground. This season has seen Njoku come into his own and shine as a star on the offense in any role—receiving, blocking, anything he's asked to do.

"Couldn't be more happy for Dave. When we first got here, it wasn't always smooth sailing and he's really bought in and it shows and Kevin's got a great trust and belief in him as well and it's great to see that he's thriving right now. Really happy," Van Pelt said. "I think the person he is, he's prideful. He wants to be successful and a lot of times when guys get frustrated early, it's because they're not having the success that they feel like they need to have. And Dave, he worked through that and then he became an unbelievable blocker, took his game to the next level on the blocking and just stayed the course and worked and worked and worked."

Acknowledging the pickups on the team with a toy truck might seem like a small gesture. But when guys like Njoku, Pocic, Ford and others embrace it, it becomes ingrained in the culture of the team. To have the pickup truck in your hands means you embraced the culture and have something to show for it.

With a group of highly competitive guys, that kind of acknowledgment not only fosters a sense of camaraderie for the player who holds the toy but also embodies what this team is all about.

"The act, it really shows that we really play for each other. We love each other. This is probably the most in-tune team I've ever played with, the chemistry and the love we have for each other. You know what I mean? I think that's really what you need to be successful to win is to play (for) more than just yourself," Njoku said.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/spor...its-fostered-camaraderie-within-the-team

This guy has turned me into an avid fan.
When he played the next game after the firepit episode, I said to myself: "This is a man who wants to be a leader..."


The self-deprecating sense of humor is a plus. A leader who can make jokes about himself is a leader guys will follow and rally behind.
I've been telling Dawgs all this year: we are seeing a true culture change in 216. Coaches are instilling an ethic, players are buying in, and guys like Chief are setting examples. I've waited 2 decades to see this. Glad I'm still around for it.


BONUS: I should be above shadenfreude, but it doesn't hurt to also see the opposite happening in 412.

Njoku was all about himself early on. Now, he is all about the team. It's awesome to see. I know it's hard for players to see far into the future when contracts on the line and you aren't winning, but props to the Chief for getting through the minefield and being the player he is today. Love him on the Browns.

Agreed. He was drafted at the age of 20 and has matured into a selfless team leader. I was thrilled when Berry gave him the contract extension.

Njoku leads all NFL TEs in yards after the catch.

I ordered a Njoku jersey directly after the last game.

After the catch, #85 extends the play like a 2020 Kareem Hunt: wild, unrestrained, hell for leather, every time the ball's in his hands. How can you not love a player like that?

I love how he's happy to bowl over/run through/stiff-arm dbs after first contact... and how he's also not afraid to launch himself for an extra 2-3 yards near the end of a play.
Chief plays football the same way #27 always has: all-out, always for the team/always for that extra yard. How can a fan not root for someone like Dave?

He's played himself into a central cog in the '23 Browns Machinery- and it's been fun to watch.
David Njoku is what a successful NFL draft story is supposed to look like:

1. promise
2. process
3. production

This is what it looks like to draft/cultivate/deploy a player into a regime that didn't completely turn over its entire roster/coaching staff/FO every 2.5-3 years for the first time since 1999.

I truly hope that CLE continues its current trend. I can see something being built.
Not just a team than could win in the near future, but a team that could build a multi-year run of relevance/dominance.


.02,
Clem.

I will say under KS the players have always played hard.

This year there is this team bond that is tangible. It began with the training sessions in West Virginia. When Nick was injured the team circled the wagons and forged ahead knowing a huge piece was now gone. Instead of coming apart the team got tighter. As each new injury occurred the attitude became we will not give in.

David playing after the fire was over the top. As a teammate when you see a guy playing with that kind of pain. You take it to heart.

Players like Newsome and Emerson were quoted that they were playing for their brother Denzel when he was out with a shoulder.

Myles a soft spoken naturally quiet guy has become a team leader. Hunt is the energy guy. David is the "pickup guy."

It takes leaders setting an example. The way this team has won games late forges an iron spirit that the team will never give in.

I have no idea how this will end. But there is the makings of a Hollywood movie beginning. Everyone loves the story of the underdog Rocky.

If the Browns with Flacco were to go all the way. It would be all Hollywood. Not unlike the Kurt Warner/Dick Vermeil Rams of 2000.

As a fan nothing is better than being witness to NFL history when something happens that will not be forgotten.

He’s REALLY good when gets heading north after a catch. Fast, and a big man with attitude when he gets in space. Just gotta keep his eyes on the ball.

Glad we extended him.

Anthony walker is week to week with a knee scope

Wills was put on season ending IR with a knee scope.


What am I missing here? Was there also another injury wills had surgery for?

It all depend on what they found while scoping.

But we are paying him too much. lol

Who did Dallas take with that 5th or is it next year 5th?

The Cowboys chose Matt Waletzko, OT from North Dakota., pick #155. He is currently on IR after playing sparingly. They also swapped 6th round picks with us that year. The Cowboys chose Devin Harper, LB from Oklahoma State at pick 193. He was waived by the Cowboys and picked up on waivers by the Bengals in September of this season.


The Browns chose Michael Woods ii WR from Oklahoma at pick # 202.


I think we won that trade.

Getting Obo back could be a big deal

this could also be huge to get Juan back

... and DTR to IR

DTR got crunched on his final play. He ran off the field, all twisted up like a geriatric patient. It hurt me to watch.

oko back would be big, and if we can get delpit back for the playoffs, it looks that much better, too bad we don't have any OT that would be back

OT is an issue that is difficult. We are down three starters. That would be a problem for any team.

Nobody is going to save us there. We have guys on the practice squad but if they were better than what we have. They would be playing.

In addition Ford and Hunt are limited backs. KS has already shifted gears. He knows running will be difficult. So, we have 12 personnel packages along with jumbo packages where we bring in Harris at fullback and Dunn on the OL and line him up somewhere. We are using screens to backs and Njoku.

Not ideal but you work with what you have.

The only solace I have about our OL is that most every other team is in a similar situation. The OL injuries league wide is a plague

Not that it really changes the joke at all, but the Cowboys wanted rid of his contract and had Ceedee Lamb breaking out.

The lack of sacks these past few games doesn't mean much to me. He is still the most disruptive defensive player in the league week after week after week even if the sacks don't come to fruition. He is still requiring the double-teams, opponents HAVE to gameplan around him, and his pressure rate continues to be at or near the top of the league.

He should be DPOY without question.

Simply comparing sacks to other players to justify who is the best seems elementary and silly.

Agreed. Imagine if the Refs called the holding penalties on him!!

j/c:

Browns Sign QB Jeff Driskel Off Cardinals Practice Squad

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/browns-sign-qb-jeff-driskel-off-cardinals-practice-squad

I remember him from the Bengals. Quite a few of their message boards fans wanted him to start over Dalton.

A lot of Browns fans wanted DTR to start ahead of PJ Walker. Some wanted to start DTR ahead of DW... I'm afraid fan support for the back up QB doesn't mean an awful lot !

We are shorthanded at WR. How do we start a Bring Back Landry petition.

j/c...

I wonder if we plan on bringing a WR, I think Moore is done for the year, that was more than a concussion, that looked like Tua last year with the fencing. We saw in the second half we have nothing to throw to without cooper/moore. Tillman has been a huge disappointment, his inability to run the right routes is starting to show. Bell is a nobody. Maybe Landry could be an option as a possession type guy. But cooper and Njoku are going to have gameplans in the show to stop them, be nice to have atleast one more reliable target

What ever happened to the Pre season all star WR we had on the roster ?

I think if they plan to bring Jarvis Landry back that they would insist that he would have to get his drawing penaltys for taunting under control, down to zero.

I don't know that bringing in somebody at this point would do any good. Take a look at our practice squad and you will find a name we bring in.

I would love to see Jarvis back in Orange and Brown.

Normally, you'd be right. But this year?

Watkins? He's someone who can be moved up if Moore can't go IMO

Why not?


This entire season has played out like a bad, un-sellable Hollywood script.


At this point, I'm pretty much down for anything.
Dust off Webster Slaughter, for all I care.

This season is too much.
I've been LMAO every week.
Please.... bring on more crazy. This team obviously feeds on it, so.... why not?

Saw this on Cleveland.com this morning-It is from Mary Kay and she says that Moore and Coop would probably be able to play this weekend if needed and it seems like Okoronkwo, Delpit and Walker are looking to be back for the playoffs.



The surprising moment when Amari Cooper hurt his heel during historic outing; outlook for Elijah Moore: Browns Insider
Updated: Dec. 31, 2023, 3:05 a.m.|Published: Dec. 30, 2023, 6:43 p.m.
Ceveland Browns wide receiver Amari Cooper vs. Houston Texans, December 24, 2023





Subscribers can gift articles to anyone
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio — As if Amari Cooper’s record-setting 265-yard performance in Houston wasn’t amazing enough, it’s all the more remarkable considering when he suffered the heel injury that cost him Thursday night’s 37-20 playoff-clinching victory over the Jets.

While most thought Cooper hurt the heel on his 75-yard catch and run for a TD with 12:04 left in the first quarter of the 36-22 victory over the Texans that made it 14-0, he was already banged up by then.



He actually suffered it on the opening play of the game — the 53-yard post from Joe Flacco on which he got behind the defense to corral the perfectly thrown ball. The tone-setting catch set up Jerome Ford’s direct-snap 4-yard TD run three plays later.

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But the heel injury didn’t stop Cooper from catching the contested deep ball down the left side and motoring another 35 yards to the end zone for the long TD with one defender eating turf, and the other unable to catch him.

By the end of the first half, he had caught 4 of 7 targets for 173 yards and the epic score. He stormed back out in the second half to catch a 7-yard touchdown pass that made it 28-7 with 2:35 left in the third quarter, and kept rolling despite the pain.

Former Browns receiver Reggie Langhorne said in the press box on Thursday night that people don’t realize how hard it is to run with a heel injury like that. It might not sound like much, but it’s excruciating.

Kevin Stefanski pulled Cooper and most of the rest of the starters from the game in the fourth quarter with the Browns up 36-7 — but Cooper was only 10 yards shy of breaking Josh Gordon’s club record of 261 receiving yards in a game, set in 2013. It didn’t matter to Stefanski. He knew his No. 1 receiver was already ailing, and the Browns had another game coming up in four days at home against the Jets, with a playoff berth at stake.




As fate would have it, Davis Mills replaced Case Keenum and threw two TD passes less than two minutes apart — with an onside kick recovery in between — to close to 36-22. Back in went Flacco, Cooper and most of the rest of the starters. By then, Cooper — who wanted 300 yards more than anything — knew of the record, and easily snared the 13-yard pass from Flacco on fourth-and-7 to set the record at 265 on his 11th catch of the day to help close out the game.

Cooper, who had amazingly only missed two games due to injury in his nine-year career, believed he could rally and face the Jets, but the heel wouldn’t cooperate in the short week. He grimaced when he tried to run in pregame warmups, and dejectedly walked up into the tunnel with receivers coach Chad O’Shea.

Fortunately for the Browns, David Njoku (6 catches, 134 yards), Elijah Moore (5 for 61 and a TD) and Ford (2 TDs, including a 50-yarder), came up big for Flacco.

But the fact that Cooper set the record, and became just the second receiver in NFL history, behind Terrell Owens, to record a 200-yard game with three teams, with a painful heel injury is a testament to the player he is.


With the long break between the Jets game and the season finale in Cincinnati next Saturday or Sunday, Cooper might be available for that game. But if the Browns have the No. 5 seed wrapped up and no shot at the AFC North crown — due to the Ravens beating the Dolphins on Sunday — Stefanski might be inclined to rest him and other starters in Cincy.


Elijah Moore’s status
Moore had everyone deeply concerned Thursday night when his body twitched after C.J. Mosley planted him into the grass head-first after a 22-yard catch. But by the time the medical staff helped him up and he walked to the medical tent, he was doing much better and the staff was confident he’d soon be OK.




Nonetheless, given the force of the hit and the involuntary arm and upper body movements, Moore was admitted to the hospital Thursday night and released Friday morning. But the hospital stay was for precautionary reasons and the Browns expect him to make a full recovery soon.

It marked the second documented concussion of Moore’s three-year pro career. He also suffered one in Week 3 of the 2021 season with the Jets, and missed one game the following week.

If Moore is anything like Cooper, he could be back for the Bengals game — in the event the Browns need him. With his excellent game against his former team Thursday night, Moore now has a career-high 59 receptions for 640 yards this season. His two TD catches are fourth-most on the team.

Nick Chubb volunteered his services for Thursday night
Chubb, who helped set the tone Thursday night by donning his Batman mask and smashing the guitar in pregame as the Dawg Pound captain, made it known to the Browns that he wanted to be part of the celebration and help in any way he could. It was only fitting that he got the party started.


The Browns have dedicated their season to Chubb, and his presence on the sideline was a huge boost to the team. He also volunteered to help the crowd get fired up before the Pittsburgh game Nov. 19. He was still on crutches then, but made an appearance on the scoreboard before the game and drew thunderous cheers.

Chubb, who had his ACL repaired on Nov. 14, the second surgery for this injury, is walking without crutches now and only wearing a small brace on the left knee. He’s still on track for a return to the field in 2024.

He was thrilled to be part of the festivities Thursday.

“It’s great,” he said of the Browns clinching as he left the locker room. “I’m excited.”

Deshaun Watson headed back to L.A. but played a role Thursday night
Watson is headed back to Los Angeles to continue rehabbing his surgically repaired throwing shoulder, but played a key role Thursday night, supporting Flacco and others on the sideline, and chest-bumping him after his 50-yard pass play for a TD to Ford.


Watson (5-1 this season) was cleared to be on the sideline because he was more than a month out from surgery. He was there with Chubb, Grant Delpit and other injured Browns. He’s headed back to L.A. to continue rehabbing with his surgeon’s medical team, but will likely rejoin the team for the playoffs.

Ogbo Okoronkwo and other injured defenders still hoping to play
Okoronkwo (torn pec) and other injured Browns defenders are still trying to make it back for the playoffs. Okoronkwo, who will likely need surgery after the season, still has a shot to play. He returned to the team last week after getting a second and maybe third opinion, and will try to hold off until after the playoffs.

Delpit (groin surgery) also hopes to make it back, as does linebacker Anthony Walker Jr. (knee scope). The Browns will almost be at full strength on defense if the three return.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...ook-for-elijah-moore-browns-insider.html

That was my point. Pretty sure this dude wasn't better than the red squirt gun, err rifle.

“Watson was winning and running the offense well in his games, and now Joe Flacco is doing the same.

After decades of turmoil, we should be grateful the Browns have had TWO winners and leaders like this playing the most difficult and important position in sports...in the same season.”

That feels a little bit like it's failing to recognize what Joe has done - also glosses over the 3 games where opponents scored a combined total of 6 points when DW started.

It's great that Watson finally started to look really good - never better than when playing TN and 2TD at 81% completion. And DW is without question the future of the Browns (which this twitter posts seems at pains to make sure we don't lose sight of) ... but Joe throwing an average of 323 yards per game at over 60% completion deserves his accolades. Focusing on the total yards per game instead of passing yards per game seems like deliberate manipulation. Pretty damn sure folks would be unhappy if someone on Twitter used that stat to try and support former Browns QB's.

Just enjoy the wins & season. Worry about what DW brings to the table next year when he is healthy and playing.

This right here. There's a whole offseason to wring our hands over Watson all over again. While I'm always super curious to dive into the X's and O's behind the why's, I also just want to enjoy as much as possible out of this season. Living in Cinci, with their similar but also very different season, reminds me we've had something special going this season.

j/c

I don't view the situation as Flacco vs DW going forward...for numerous reasons that have been discussed already. I view it as a team in its window having their starting QB in rehab after surgery on his throwing shoulder.

How many times do you hear that many surgeries take a year to fully heal? Yeah...most of those are 'better' within that timeframe...but to FULLY heal?

I like DTR, but he isn't ready to be the man on a team with these expectations. If Flacco is willing to be the backup - and maybe starter until DW fully heals - then we would be fools to not re-sign him. I know the contract and $$$ will matter...but we cannot go cheap here.

I want to believe that Flacco is not going to take this newfound credibility and go off to be a bridge starter for a new guy...I want to believe that he has no interest in being on a team that is rebuilding...I DO believe that of the teams in a playoff window, his best place to be is with the Browns...or the Steelers unfortunately. At 39 in '24 we are a pretty good spot for a guy like Flacco right now.

j/c:

well, he's experienced lol .. not sure any good anymore (or ever)

Started 16 games for the Bills last year, but couldn't get off the Jets practice squad this year. That's... interesting.

So goes for my "Haack Attack" t-shirt, coffee mug, pen, stocking cap business idea.

I'm sorry for your loss, but on the up side, it means that Bojorquez is healthy again

Also, a Bedford High School alum.

j/c...

Lol.

Literally how I feel every class I coach at my gym, even when it has 30 year olds in it

Ooook..."we should be grateful the Browns have had TWO winners and leaders like this playing the most difficult and important position in sports...in the same season"

I posted copy/pasted that quote b/c it is recognizing both QBs and being appreciative of what they have done for this amazing season. This isn't a comparison on who is better or who played the better teams

The whole twitter post points that out and it doesn't say anything about next year, lol.

I really got a kick out of this. In fact I was waiting for it to happen. So funny how the narrative changes and how these people act like they knew all along.

Oooook... As I said, it felt manufactured the way the post talked about the QBs and then focusing on total offensive yards per game. Nothing against you, just feels like a bit of a fake narrative. I disagree it's not a QB comparison, to me it reads like framing the discussion as Joe is doing just as well as DW did, while the reality is something different.

As I stated, I'm focissing on this season. Not even sure why journalists or sports writers or whoever wrote that would be talking about Watson.... If anything it'd make more sense to give KS the kudos.

Hopefully It's OK for people to have and share different opinions.

Extra insurance..... a quality pickup.

So were both my Parents back in 1967.

Yes but were your parents at the Bottlegate game.

and he wore a northcutt jersey

j/c:



Oh, I remember.....and I'll never be able to forget it.

Listening to the Jim Schwartz presser today was interesting.

He spoke very highly of Kevin, the city and the entire organization. He has really been impressed by how Kevin has been able to keep the team on the task at hand.

"His even keel with the ups and downs of an emotional game and season has been really impressive." *( maybe not an exact quote but really close)

Asked about if he is interested in a head coaching job. He replied "I am really happy here but you aspire to the top of your profession."

If he gets an offer. He may well decide to take it. I wonder how we will handle that?

I would guess KS would promote from within and keep what we are doing on defense in place.

I really hope Schwartz stays.

There is no salary cap on coaches, what if we offer him like 2x what he'd make as a head coach to stay a couple more years while we stll have Watson under contract?

Man, losing him would absolutely suck.

Barring Harbaugh leaving Xichigan or Belichick leaving the Patriots, Schwartz would likely have his pick of destinations. After the quick work he performed in turning soft and average into nasty and dominate, it would stand to reason.

That said, these are still his roots, this is where it all started, he was very vocal about how much it meant to him from day one. I think he'll stay another year... unless, of course, we hoist the trophy this year.

Of course I want Schwartz to remain.

But when you have success like we are having. When jobs open up they are looking for wizards.

Everyone knows Schwartz is a great DC. He has been a head coach. So, he will measure opportunities. He will know if it is worth leaving.

We have a good thing going on here right now. But if we do lose Jim. I think Kevin will probably promote from within.

And that helps present the double edged sword. You want the best in the business at both the OC and DC positions along with a strong support staff in your coaching ranks. We saw just how much difference that has made on the D side of the ball this season. By contrast if they live up to those expectations it makes it hard to keep them around for long. In the Browns case with Schwartz it is sadly the nature of the beast.

Hopefully the right offer to lure him away this coming off season will not present itself and he will be here for at least one more season. I think that's the best we can hope for at this point in time.

I am pretty sure that at one point Schwartz has said that he doesn't want to be a HC again

So much craziness. Don't have hear about the dumb Denny's menu, the ridiculousnes of you are what your record says your are and so on.

Though...I might reconsider. In that pic he isn't showing any emotion, so maybe we should fire him.


Side note: Am I the only one thinking he looks like a younger version of Obi-wan in that pic? Dude became full Jedi this year.

You would think Schwartz would not take just any available job. Coaches rarely get a second let alone a third chance at a head coaching job. Jim will be very selective in taking a job with the right GM. It'll be interesting.

And as soon as I type that I go to cleveland.com and there is an insider article titled:

Browns defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz aspires to be a head coach again

Because it is an insider article I cannot open it but the title makes me look foolish

Does anyone really think Schwartz would be offered a HC job?

His track record as a HC has not been great at 29-52.

Hard to say if he would get an offer.

It all depends on the owner.

He may be placed in the category of good DC bad head coach. Although each owner has their own views and process.

Probably gets extra credit for even lasting that long in Detroit. Here's the last 25 years of futility... on the heels of having pro-bowlers all over the field and the best RB in football (Sanders) and never coming close. 12 coaches. Caldwell the only one with the full-time gig and a winning record, he was 0-2 in the playoffs. I don't think Schwartz will get much grief for his Detroit record from 15 years prior.

Bobby Ross 1997–2000.... 27-30
Gary Moeller† 2000.... 4-3
Marty Mornhinweg† 2001–2002.... 5-27
Steve Mariucci 2003–2005.... 15-28
Dick Jauron 2005 ....1-4
Rod Marinelli† 2006–2008 ....10-38
Jim Schwartz† 2009–2013 ....29-51
Jim Caldwell 2014–2017 ....36-28
Matt Patricia† 2018–2020 ....13-28
Darrell Bevell 2020 ....1-4
Robert Prince† 2020 ....0-1
Dan Campbell 2021–present.... 23-25-1

That's what I'm hoping for as well. It would be nice to have him here another year or two at least to try and groom an underling as a replacement and keep some consistency.

He got off to a decent start in Detroit IIRC. It all went downhill for him after the Harbaugh jumping backslap.

I'd expect we stay inside the box with any promotion. Tarver has been an NFL D coordinator with Oakland.

No matter, keeping the D the same isn't easy when you change the coordinator. It isn't realistic to think you can slip new guys in and think things will be the same, though I wouldn't think that things would change that much in the ways of scheme.

Normally when I look at football it is all about talent and coaching. Or, maybe how we may game plan to beat a team. X's and O's.

Yesterday I listened to the Jim Schwartz presser. Schwartz is a no nonsense guy. He had some interesting comments. He loves the environment within the Browns. He thinks KS is the COY and it is not close. He knows how his players respond to challenges. He thinks our corners are the best in football. He likes how the players pick each other up. You don't see helmets thrown or people in each other's faces. He attributes all that to coaching and the internal culture of the team.

When you hear the pressers of players and coaches on this Browns team. It is amazing how uniform their message is.

There is a vibration about this Browns team that is hard to define. Unity is the word that comes to mind. They are a united team of single purpose.

I am no fortune teller. I don't predict because there is no way to know how things will play out.

What I will say is this Browns team has what it takes to win.

I don't really disagree with you Peen and I think while you didn't expound on it, it's deeper than "scheme alone". I'm pretty sure you played sports back in your day and I did as well. Certainly not to this level but enough to get a feel for certain things. Some coaches are just natural born leaders of men. The way they coach, the way they lead, the way they make you believe, it's almost as though you would walk through hell for them. While other coaches simply do not instill that in their players. I think that may very well be a part of the difference we're seeing on the field.

Schwartz, since his presence in Cleveland in general, we've been seeing players who were back-ups, practice squad players and people signed off their couch playing like legitimate NFL starters. Now I've seen people give Berry a lot of credit for that and he certainly deserves some of it. But I would certainly hope people don't believe that's the entire story here. Sure I can't prove it and have no way of knowing it for sure, but the only time I've ever seen such marginal players step up this big is with a coach that has inspired them to perform beyond themselves.

I think there are certain intangibles in people themselves that are very hard and sometimes almost impossible to replace based on the X's and O's on a play sheet. I think it's the ability to lead men to go through hell and back for a cause, for their team or something bigger than themselves. Based on the overwhelming odds considering all the injuries incurred, I think Schwartz is a member of that rare breed of leaders.

the other thing that seems to be true: we are very straightforward on D and it allows the guys to play freely without thinking. And then that stuff perpetuates and you get better and better

I do believe that in a presser he was asked the question and his answer was something along the lines of "all coaches aspire to hold the top job".

When you consider what we fans have watched for the last 2 decades, probably the most unbelievable part is that this team didn't start coming apart at the seams by mid-season. You had Chubb going down and the corresponding absurd loss in Pittsburgh. Watson looking very bleh, then showing promise but going down with injury and the subsequent trouncing by Baltimore. Then the injuries and QB play that followed prior to Flacco.

Posters on here have used the phrase "this team is different"... and that's just it right there. This Browns teams (very much unlike previous rosters/seasons) not only didn't fall apart but actually came together.

Regardless of how this year plays out we as Browns fans have a lot to be thankful for. There hasn't been this much to cheer about since the mid to late 80's. I'd love to see a Super Bowl as all Browns fans do. It won't be easy having to win 3 playoff games most likely all on the road, but I've been pleasantly wrong about this team and am hoping for the best.

Whoever made this video for the Browns needs a raise.

9:57 minute mark was pretty cool too.

Downside: JW rugrat sighting.

Justin Hardee, a Clevelander from Glenville High School.

I knew it was too good to be true that JDubs came to his senses.

He just re-positioned those little goblins outside of the camera shot during postgame speeches.

Please help me to catch up:
What's a 'JW Rugrat?'
Who is 'JDubs?'

I miss certain things.

JW Johnson, Browns executive vice president and his kids. Jdubs is his Twitter name. He is also married to Haslam’s daughter

Does anybody have a copy of that gametime is paintime clip of JW? That will show all anyone needs to know about him.

Thnx, P. You've given me enough to get started.
I'll take it from here.

thnx.
gotit.