DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deshaun Watson Out For The Year

DTR did not get a fair chance in his only start, that’s for sure. Maybe with the practice reps and time to prepare, we’ll see what the Browns saw in training camp. It’s all we can hope for. But they must get a veteran and banish PJ to the practice squad.

Hope the best for Deshaun's recovery. Nick Chubb just finished his final ACL surgery. Hoping both get back to 100%

D.T.R. OR BUST.
OR
Next Year!

Good post.

I went back to look for some of these "told you so" posters from when Dobbs was traded. None of them were there. Everyone in that thread agreed releasing Dobbs was a good move -- except you -- but not doom and gloom, just the simple notion that we were sacrificing experience and playbook knowledge. Facts.

And then anything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

I'm no longer going to argue with "bone-headed move". I think they've freely admitted that behind closed doors in Berea.

What kills me is the posters that insist this makes our FO "inept" and act like they owe them some "explanation for their stupidity".

"Season ticket holders get swindled yet again."

That stuff gets ridiculous.


This dumb move, at worst, has maybe cost us the Seattle game. No backup was jumping out to 'whip' the Ravens on a moment's notice.

So now we have DTR with seven weeks of psychological rehab since the disaster on Oct 1. If he looks unprepared and we can't generate any offense, this mistake becomes more egregious.

It would just be nice if people would shelve the crystal ball b.s. The FO doesn't have one, and if we were to trust most of the posters', we were destined for disaster since August anyway.

Let's just watch the games

woah.

First I thought when Conklin went down, that would be our major injury for the year. Then Chubb goes out in Week 2, and well, that blows. Now Watson is done, so in all reality the ceiling for our season is a wild card berth and getting bounced in the 1st round, if our D can play as well as they have and the running game takes over.

Baker would have been told to wrap it in duck tape and put WD-40 on it so he could keep playing…


What a difference a year and a half make.

jc

This is why I feel no player is worth what we gave up for Watson. Any chance we can get Brady to come out of retirement?

i am not sure if you are being sarcastic, MY comment was a reference to the Movie Animal House, because the line " My advice is to drink heavily" is also. I assumed it was obvious that no one thinks Germany bombed Pearl Harbor, although, after thinking about it, there are some US HS graduates that probably don't know.

Lets examine this:

The Browns could back a brinks truck up to his home, but Tom isn’t hurting for money.

I’m pretty sure Tom and Baker talk and are friends. I’m pretty sure Baker wouldn’t tell him how great it is to play for KS and JH.

So the ONLY bait we have to bring him out of retirement is a strong D and the high possibility of going to the big dance one more time. I’m not sure that is enough, but I hope it happens too.

And the last point I’ll make, is that I think he would still be under contract to the Bucs anyway. Or did they released him to retire as a Patriot? I’m not sure.

Uh we won’t be signing Tom Brady. So no need to explain why

What?

Brady is 2 years past being able to play effectively in the NFL.

I'm surprisingly nonchalant about all this. Yes, it's a bitter disappointment, but think about it:

This team has managed a .667 record without Nick Chubb and without Deshaun Watson, for the most part. What that means: the Browns have dealt with catastrophic injuries and an unusually high number of nagging injuries to even get to this point. And, this is key: never once, have I seen any signs of 'quit' in any of them. They have found a way. They have made a way. And our boys are still toe-to-toe with the teams that used to bully them on a regular. That is evidence of the "change of culture" I've been ranting about for 20 years in this community.

These Browns are nobody's door mats. Ask any of the Ravens players who have been sitting in ice baths and lying on training tables, since Sunday's epic. Elves have been for real all along.

We all believed that this team would run on the strength of #24's ground production and #4's ability to return to form. Fun Fact: this year's Browns team has not been able to rely upon either of those assets/weapons all year. And yet, here we are: beginning the second half of the season 1 game out of first place. How long has it been since Fandawgs have seen their team in such a strategic spot at this point in the season? How often, since 1999?

I don't care what anyone else thinks, I'll speak this truth for myself: I can't remember a season when this team has entertained me more. Maybe the playoff year with those back-to-back wins over the Stoolz, but that was weird- empty stadiums, and all...

Njoku: 13 yards gained after point of contact. Freight train.
Tillman drops Van Noy (I loved seeing a Browns player flip the script on a Division rival who's been punking us for >20 years)
The Rugby Scrum
The Pick 6
OL producing another 178 ground yards.

...and that's just the most recent game. You don't get to 6-3 without effort like this overall.
Point: this team has earned its 6-3 record. Without its 'stars.' And with a rotating roster of wounded still giving it all.

I can't wait to see what's next. Why?
...because we're halfway into the 2023 season, and the Cleveland Browns are not 3-6.
Remember what that felt like? I'm certain you do.

_________________

I'm with Rish on this one.
Until I see any signs of "the same old Browns," I'm going to keep watching what this current bunch will do. They are still writing their chapter in this story. There are still many blank pages.

I simply don't have room for doom & gloom.
I'm too busy having fun watching this bunch deal with everything the refs, the NFL and The Fates throw at them. They ain't stopped; they ain't quit. They've dealt with everything up 'til now, and I've seen no evidence that they might start giving up now.

I'm still down for this ride, even if #4 isn't driving the bus.


.02

I don't see that as the reality. It may work out that way, but I don't think the players have given up on the season the way you have. Before the injury news spread, i was actually thinking we might be able to get home field advantage through the playoffs.

That is probably out, but we still have a shot at the division. I can see us still getting to 11 wins. No doubt there will be some close games in there and we will need our fair share of breaks.

At minimum, lets see how DTR plays on Sunday before we start writing off the season. What we saw in the 1st ravens game wasn't any sort of barometer.

As I said at 9:35AM yesterday

DTR, DTR, DTR

DTR, Let's see what the kid has. I think it is much much more than we saw earlier this year vs the Ravens. He only found out he was starting 90 minutes prior to starting the game. This team has an identity and that is of an overcomer. They have proved that so far and they will continue. If they can beat San Fran and Indy and almost beat Seattle with their QB going 1 TD and 5 INT's I think this team can find a way to get to 10+ wins yet this season. They do that and gain the confidence in that and when they get healthy next year look out!!!

I'm less worried about Watsons skills and more worried about his durability.

If he starts the season healthy next year, there's no guarantee it will stay that way with his style of play.

I agree. Watson was 8-4 in games he started since he came to Cleveland and he was starting to really get better and better with his last 3 full games vs Tennessee, Arizona, and Baltimore. He was a very good QB in those games. He outperformed Lamer Jackson in Baltimore. He is older than he was when he played in Houston and when he comes back next year will need to protect himself better. Slide more when he runs and scrambles. I can't get over that hit he took vs the Titans at the 3-yard line and not think that was the hit that has cost him this season. They say this fracture happened vs the Ravens but I would not be surprised if it actually happened then and was just discovered or at least started the crack that became a fracture vs the Ravens.

Neither you nor I have a crystal ball to see what the future holds. I would have hoped that the FO would have been smart enough to consider that they were signing a player with that style of play who had previously had both knees reconstructed and put a plan B in place with a "What If." What I find comical and concerning is with the amount of money the Browns have spent the last 3-years (the most of any team by a longshot), the Browns have been reluctant to invest in reliable quality backups at the two most important offensive positions in LT and QB. At LT, Berry and Co. exercised a 5th year option on Wills who currently is PFF Graded at 54.0 ranking him 60th out of all NFL starting OT's who is now injured. It's not like there wasn't any history of performance red flags since he's continued to regress year after year. Now, he's been replaced by Hudson who has posted a PFF Grade of 42.5 ranking him 76th out of the NFL tackles ranked. Having 230M guaranteed in your franchise QB would make a person think that a quality investment in the person responsible for protecting your franchise investments blindside would be a priority.

Then to take it a step further, knowing the Watson story of injury history and lack of playing time the previous 3-years, the FO decides to finally manage the cap and save money by making a ridiculous low investment, after spending freely, in their QB room by installing a "Plan B" by having a rookie 5th round QB signed for $835,567 this year and a 3rd team QB who was an undrafted free agent for $617,222 this season. A 230M investment in a franchise QB coupled with a Plan B spend of $1,452,789 total cap investment in your backup QB's in a season where the franchise is "ALL IN!" Think about this, the Browns have as much invested in their long snapper Hughlett this year ($1,428,889 APY) as they do with their backup QB room.

It just makes you want to scratch your head and wonder why?

More rubbish

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/six-worst-trades-nfl-history-183105617.html

Rubbish, indeed.

Quoted to add: And that 6-3 is by way of going through the toughest part of our schedule, and we often did it DESPITE whomever our QB was at the time. All of them literally put points up for the other team that we had to overcome. What remains of our schedule is FAR easier. If we can pull out the 'W' this week, we're in the driver's seat to the postseason. We can do that with DTR.

Could we see a certain GOAT come out of retirement and join the Browns in their quest to win the franchise’s first Super Bowl? Crazy as it sounds, BetOnline actually lists retired signal-caller Tom Brady as the +300 favorite to be the next quarterback signed by the Browns.

2012 second overall pick Robert Griffin III has the second-best odds at +400 (he played for the Browns in 2016), followed by former MVP Matt Ryan (+600) and Super Bowl 52 hero and MVP Nick Foles (+600).


https://www.totalprosports.com/nfl/...JOpE861Zy6iTtWt7WH6dFpYafzOERx7wrLc8LmAU

Revisiting Deshaun Watson trade two years later: Texans fleece Browns by capitalizing on major draft capital

Houston scored big on its picks from the Watson deal

The Cleveland Browns believe they have their franchise quarterback in Deshaun Watson, although he's spent more time off the field in a Browns uniform than on it. From suspension to now season-ending shoulder surgery, Watson will have missed a total of 22 of 34 games once the regular season comes to a conclusion.

Keep in mind the Browns paid Watson $230 million in fully guaranteed money, as Watson carries a $63.977 million cap hit over the next three years. Cleveland can't even get out of the deal until 2027, as the Browns would pay a $136.9 million cap penalty in 2024 or a $73 million cap penalty in 2025 by releasing him.

Basically, Cleveland is stuck with Watson's contract. Which brings us back to the controversial deal that sent Watson to Cleveland in the first place. The Browns acquired Watson from the Houston Texans in exchange for first-round picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, along with a 2023 third-round pick and 2024 fourth-round pick. The Texans also sent the Browns a 2024 fifth-round pick.

Based on Watson's performance and injury history, the Browns made a bad trade. What the Texans got in return only makes the deal that much worse for Cleveland.

What the Texans received

2022 first-round pick: G Kenyon Green (via trade)
2023 first-round pick: DE Will Anderson Jr. (via trade)
2024 first-round pick: TBD
2023 third-round pick: WR Tank Dell (via trade)
2024 fifth-round pick: TBD

The Texans used some creative maneuvering of draft picks to get three lynchpins for their franchise thanks to having extra first-round picks as part of the Watson deal. Houston selected Green after originally having the No. 13 pick from Cleveland, but the Texans traded down two spots with the Philadelphia Eagles and selected Green at No. 15 overall. The Texans also received the 124th, 162nd and 166th overall selections from the Eagles, which they actually used in a series of other deals to land wide receiver John Metchie III (second round), linebacker Christian Harris (third round), running back Dameon Pierce (fourth round) and Thomas Booker (fifth round).

With the 2023 first-round pick, the Texans traded up with the Arizona Cardinals to draft Anderson -- right after they selected C.J. Stroud with their own pick at No. 2 overall. Houston also ended up receiving Arizona's fourth-round pick, but traded it to Philadelphia for a 2024 third-round pick.

Houston traded up four spots to land Dell at the No. 69 pick from the Los Angeles Rams, getting a key wideout for Stroud in the process. The Texans also exchanged sixth-round picks and used that pick to acquire two seventh-round picks. One of the seventh-round picks they used to select safety Brandon Hill. Houston used the other seventh-round pick to trade back up into the sixth round and select wide receiver Xavier Hutchinson.

Here are the players the Texans landed in the Watson deal after their draft trades so far:

Kenyon Green
John Metchie III
Christian Harris
Dameon Pierce
Thomas Booker
Will Anderson
Tank Dell
Brandon Hill
Xavier Hutchinson
2024 first-round pick
2024 third-round pick

What the Browns received

Deshaun Watson
2024 fifth-round pick: TBD

The Browns traded a lot to get Watson, and they just haven't gotten the performance for what they gave up to acquire him. Watson is 8-4 in his 12 starts with the Browns, but he has completed 59.8% of his passes for 2,217 yards and 14 touchdowns to nine interceptions (81.7 rating). Watson has averaged just 184.8 pass yards a game with the Browns.

Of the 44 quarterbacks with 200-plus pass attempts over the past two seasons, Watson is 37th in passer rating (right above Carson Wentz). Watson is 41st in completion rate, 34th in touchdown passes, 14th in interception percentage (2.6), and 37th in yards per attempt (6.5).

That's a lot of money tied to a quarterback who's at the bottom of the league in many statistical categories. The Browns have a very good roster, but just aren't getting what they paid for with Watson -- even if his shoulder injury could derail their season.

If the Browns get this type of production from Dorian Thompson-Robinson and win games, this could be a major problem going forward. Watson is still the quarterback, but he's at replacement level.

Cleveland paid a lot to get Watson -- and is not getting the bang for its buck.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...Dzzz7Dyr6ase-dszYky0jEtRx4PRkpNjLdZ63psI

Ditto, and people here ran the last QB out of town who, according to the stats, performed better than we got in exchange.

Of the 44 quarterbacks with 200-plus pass attempts over the past two seasons, Watson in 12 games is 37th in passer rating (right above Carson Wentz). Watson is 41st in completion rate, 34th in touchdown passes, 14th in interception percentage (2.6), and 37th in yards per attempt (6.5). Add a sack % of 9.8 and Passing Success Rate Percentage of 39.9%.

Of the 33 quarterbacks with 200-plus pass attempts in 2021, Mayfield in 14 games rated 27th in passer rating, 27th in completion rate, 22nd in touchdown passes, 28th in interception percentage (3.1), and 17th in yards per attempt (7.2). We can add a sack % of 9.3 and Passing Success Rate Percentage of 44.3%.

If you're unfamiliar with Passing Success Rate: A successful pass gains at least 40% of the yards required on 1st down, 60% of the yards required on 2nd down, and 100% on 3rd or 4th down. Denominator is pass attempts + times sacked.

Now Mayfield is gone and that was the decision the Browns decided to go with moving forward. Now Watson may have a higher upside based on performance prior to coming to Cleveland but actual production in a Browns uniform spells it was a bad decision considering the Browns have actually got poorer play from Watson compared to Mayfield's 2021 season according to the stats. It can't be ignored that Mayfield didn't have the #1 NFL Defense supporting him either. If Watson is better than Mayfield, he hasn't shown it in a Browns uniform as of yet.

Spin it any way you want, the actual performance on the field tells the real story.

Unavailable in 22 out of 34 games. 64,7%. That’s the bottom line after two seasons.

We can all judge from our own expectations what we think of the outcome of this trade but something says to me that we were sooooo close…. to something great…. That’s why I’m so disappointed and frustrated because it could have been handled better.

Right now the trade doesn't look all that good I will admit. However, as some other posters have pointed out, it's not over yet. We still have 3 more years. After that, just like the draft, you can assess the trade and our situation. This is not DW's last year with us.

Guys, his career is over. I’ve been negative Nelly on this thread over the last couple days and I apologize but here is my reasoning…
I’ve been through a shoulder surgery before. To make a long story short, I fell on my arm the wrong way and broke my shoulder at the top of the humerus bone. It didn’t hurt too much and I thought it was a sprain.- After my initial X-Ray, I was (obviously) referred to an orthopedic surgeon. The first thing that he did was ask me to lift my arm - I couldn’t. The next thing that he asked me was to move my shoulder into his hands.- Press the far end my collarbone into his hands.- I could. He then sent me to a neurologist who ran some sort of device (similar to an ultrasound) up and down my arm. His first words to me “It’s a good thing that you didn’t sever this nerve because if you did, you wouldn’t be able to lift this arm again”. - Think like being able to bend your elbow but not being able to reach for anything. Scary. I had the surgery, plates and screws and all that good stuff.. etc etc. afterwards, the surgeon noted that my rotator cuff looked fine and referred for physical therapy.
My point…. They’re telling DW that his shoulder could “fall apart” if he continues and gets hit. I’m not a doctor but is body is sending him a message -“No more of this”.

It’s not DW’s fault and it’s not our management’s fault for making the trade. But the guy should retire. I’d hate to see him get hit again and lose functionality of his arm.

If that’s the case then we’re probably looking at DTR for our QB for at least the next three years.

stop injecting common sense into this forums eyeballs...

also.... tonight may gf said to me 'I heard at work that the browns are a notoriously bad football team... I replied..."yea babe, that's my identity'

Muni even admitted he’s not a doctor, let alone is he an orthopaedic specialist. But since muni says Watson’s career is over, we’ll have to accept that as fact.

I didn’t say that his career is over. I said that it’s a possibility that he needs to protect his arm so that he can lift it in the future.

Calling it now, this team will somehow make the playoffs and go deep. We will win at least one playoff game.

I laugh hysterically anytime the average Joe compares a personal malady to that of NFL player and expect people to take it seriously.

NFL players are in pinnacle shape and have access to not only the best medical care, but as importantly, 24hr access to the best rehab available. Just stop with worthless analogies.