DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

The Clueless One re-emerges.

hue Jackson is STILL coaching and getting fired? what a joke

I’m pretty sure we’ve gone through 2 or 3 QB’s every season since the return. Managing it and coming out of it with a winning record = coaching.

KS has been criticized for his poor play calling at times and rightfully so but when you read the previous post about the QB’s that’s a tough road for anyone to navigate. When you look at how hard the players play for him and the respect they seem to have it would be crazy to fire him. We just need some stability with all these injuries and especially the QB position.

j/c

Both supporters and detractors of Ski have valid points. My issue with him is he remains so inconsistent in his situational play-calling and his inability to get the team on a roll without a complete turd game every-other or every-third game or so.

To my amateur eye, he gets cute and thinks he's gonna outsmart the other team all too often...instead of building a plan to focus on strengths vs weaknesses. Maybe he IS doing just what I want re: building a plan and I don't see it...or the cute stuff would work if executed properly. But at the end of the day, he hasn't been able to have HIS team play with consistency without the turds I mentioned ^.

We would not - and do not - put up with such inconsistency from players.

Regarding player relations: That's only important when/if the coach 'loses the team'. Whether they like one another is meaningless. Between coaches, players staff etc there are probably 100 people in the mix. Not everyone is going to 'like' everyone else. Respect and leadership are what matters. Maybe Ski has that...I'm not in a position to know.

Some coaches are good at getting a team from lousy to good...not all of those coaches can take a team from good to very good. (Hello Marvin Lewis.) Is Ski that guy? I don't think so.

When you say "inconsistent", are you referring to success rate or the type of plays he runs during particular situations?

I believe as such in BOTH situations. My issue is with consistency all around.

Just this weekend, running Ford only (9) times is/was crazy. I know that Denver was gunning to stop the run from the start. But they are/were still a bad running-D team...did they suddenly and finally/only find success defending the run when playing us? Did they go from last in the league at running D to a running D that we 'felt' we couldn't succeed in running the ball against during the week? Did they not also 'commit' to stopping the run in their other games this year?

The Bryant sneak...not a bad idea or a bad play. BUT...we boned it up the first time...likely due to a silent count. Then we did it AGAIN. Did the stadium suddenly go quiet on the 2nd attempt?

When we are in a field position where we might go for it on a 4th down...is Ski thinking about that possibility on 3rd and 2 and calling plays accordingly? It sure doesn't seem like he IS doing that...consistently anyway.

When the running game is working, does he go away from it too soon/often. I think he does. I think he thinks he's smarter than the other guy. SO rather than playing a certain way until the other team demonstrates they can stop it...Ski is gonna get out in front of the situation and change things up and keep the other guy guessing.

On the trick play double reverse...not a bad play and not a bad idea...BUT...PJ had just come in the game and Strong had touched the ball from scrimmage like ONE time in the last two games.

It's too cute...it's oftentimes unnecessary...it can appear to be not very well thought out. THEN...there will be plays with excellent design and called well...even if the player doesn't execute. Or WRs reportedly running open and the QB not seeing it.

I don't want to blow this up and start over again...but I also don't think SKi is the guy to get us where we want to go.

And none of it would be a big deal if it wasnt that we've seen the same tenancy for his entire time in charge.

I don't think it was necessarily about them focusing on stopping our run game, although I think it could have been a factor, but I think in large part it had to do with us being down 14 points early in the game. I, too, would have like to have seen more Ford. More specifically, I'd like to see more Ford carries than Hunt. 9:7 ratio between the two is not my cup of tea. But that's just me.

So I tend to like that he is inconsistent when it comes to play calling in various in-game situations. Because if he was too consistent, well, the DC would know what to call and when to do it. I think the Bryant 4th and short situations are a good example if it. I feel like people (not you) are quick to call out a play that doesn't work, but don't equally compliment him when something "cute" happens. Like the T formation on that 2nd touchdown last week and the play call on the dropped 2pt conversion. Those were brilliant and there have been countless other ones that have been super sharp calls by Stefanski.

I think Stefanski has dialed up more of those, shall we say, "unconventional "play calls than other coaches this year. I don't have anything to back that up, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. But I can see why he is.....his QBs have been Walker and DTR and we all know the limitations of the QBs at this point in time. So, naturally, I think he is trying to be creative, keep the defense on their toes. and surprise them. I like that approach and it's allowed us, partly, to be 7-4.

Obviously, I'm a Stefanski fan. I think he is smart, innovative, and players buy into him. I think his approach aligns with the FO and that is something this team has lacked for a loooong time. I think he has done wonders with the situations that have been given to him and the QBs he has had to work with here in Cleveland. And to be 7-4 and possibly going on our 4th starting QB is rather remarkable.

Also, one other thing I wanted to share.....

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/passing-play-pct

This is a team ranking of passing play % in the NFL. The Browns are 27th at 54%. Comparatively, we run the ball quite a bit more compared to the rest of the league.

Those are very interesting stats and are totally different than the picture we see painted here on a pretty regular basis.

The issue with Sterfanski is he bases everything on execution/what should work because he's a good play designer. He doesn't give a lot of thought whether the guys on the field can execute it. His whole thought process is if the play design was good, the offense should be good too. He coaches too much by the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. Then his supporters say "look how many people were open that play!; it's definitely not Stefanski that's the issue!". He seems to have no real pulse or feel for what actually is going to happen. He needs to coach more with his gut.

Having said that, we could be in worse shape and although he's still making the same mistakes four years in, the team plays hard and is competitive within the division. Not sure you can find another coach that will give you that.

Stop with the facts already. They can't be relevant.

I think there's a difference between play design and play calling.

I think Stefanski excels at the former and has his ups and downs with the latter. I thought the play calling against the Sfeelers might have been his best ever. I said before the game he needed to be comfortable going three and out. He was. We won. The play calling against the Broncos was the exact opposite. Maybe DTR was checking out of runs. That's still on Stefanski. Don't give him that option. He was fortunate imo that DTR caught a little rhythm and it was actually working. I still didn't care for the play calling. When PJ came in the wheels fell off.

I am not saying we should fire him. I am simply offering a critique. I believe there isn't enough coaching from his gut.

Facts and stats and relevance aren't always connected to tell a story. Facts CAN sometimes be relevant and sometimes CANNOT.

On our 1st possession we did not hand the ball off to a RB. The score was 0-0. A (maybe) QB design run and then pass, pass.

On our 2nd possession we went: pass, pass, pass, run by Ford (finally), penalty, pass, fumbled sneak. We were down 0-7.

On our 3rd possession we went: run by Hunt, pass, pass. We were down 0-7.

Three possessions - the first three possessions - and our 'lead' RB ran the ball ONE time against the worst run-D in the league. His backup also ran the ball ONE time on those possessions. With a 5th Rd rookie QB who needs not be put in a situation to carry the load. Too cute...too attempted-to-outsmart the other guy. We are a good running team and they are a bad run-D team...it's not hard to be perplexed on the playcalls and gameplan there.

On our 4th possession we went: pass, run (19 yards by Ford), pass, run (11 yards by Ford), QB run (likely designed), direct snap to Hunt, pass, pass, run, fumble, pass, pass...field goal. We were down 14-0 at the start of that possession. After Ford's second double-digit yard run in a row, he never ran the ball again on that possession.

So...it wasn't UNTIL we were down two scores that Ski started to run the ball...completely opposite of what we usually see. Then we had our 'lead' back gashing them (surprise, surprise) and rather than make THEM stop him, WE stopped him...outsmart 'em. Then we got all cutesy with the direct snap to Hunt after a nice QB run. Then we passed the ball 4 of 5 plays leading to the FG...against the worst rush-D in the league and with a good-to-very-good rush - O.

On those 1st four possessions -and especially the 4th possession - we saw everything that is maddening about Ski's playcalling / gameplan.

So let's see if I got this straight. When Stefanski called the Steelers game exactly the way you said he should it "might have been his best game ever"? But when he doesn't call it the way you think he should he sucks? It sounds as though you should submit a resume'.

Cleveland Browns
76 Lou Groza Blvd.
Berea, Ohio 44017
Phone; 440-891-5000.

To add to that, and speaking for myself, I've said my complaint is that KS gets pass happy (among other issues). That doesn't mean he's consistently pass heavy. It means in game when we're winning and running at 8 yards a carry he suddenly went pass happy, ran less and we lost. It is, for me, about having a rookie practice squad QB and calling a game like you have a seasoned vet playing.


Your breakdown of the play calling another good example.

It's not all bad - clearly - and we've seen good/great games and ability to overcome adversity. But for me not acknowledging the repeated trends that have materialized would be difficult. You can acknowledge the good and still examine and discuss the bad.

Ski the person seems to be a solid dude. Ski the coach seems to do the best he can. Ski the HC, that’s the guy I don’t like. I’m not sure if it’s losing culture, the whole Baker/DW situation, or the fact that he sucks at consistency in play calling and has piss poor game management skills in crunch time. The dilemma, from my POV is, can we be better with the next guy? The uncertainty in that answer should have us all giving Ski extra rope, IMO.

I don't think that is the right question.
I think the question should be:


Can stefanski lead us to a super bowl win?
Can we be a perennial playoff team with him as our HC?

I don't care about a potentially better hypothetical coach.
There will always be a potential upgrade for everyone.
I want to decide if I belief stefanski can lead us to a championship.

One thing I have noticed about KS is this year he is going for the 3 points more than trying for the 4th down conversion. Maybe it's the real confidence in our kicking situation or knowing with our current offense that points are a premium, but at least I don't have to yell at the TV to take the points

the Browns are one and one,

in the 2nd half of the regular season schedule,
and there are Ten game weeks remaining, only ten, in the NFL including the super bowl,

the one and one Browns, in their last two, need to avoid falling to I and 2, and get to 2 and I in this the 3rd game of the final 8 of the regular season, and
Kevin needs to find a way to get a win against a whatever they are Rams team, good or bad I haven't looked, would it matter? no.
and top teams RUN the Ball WELL this time of the year.

this may as well be a playoff game for the Browns side, they can not afford to lose any more, especially this week, because this is the only game they have a chance to win this week,

They are going to have to score points, a bunch of them.

Is the offense up to the task.

Seems as though both are heading for extensions.

Really don't blame all the past couple of years as the coach had to deal with QB changes among the many changes in Cleveland. But really think he has found his chemistry with the team. Offense needs some work but defense is keeping you all in the game.

Good luck with the fans Kevin. You'll be 7-5 coming home to JAX.

It makes a huge difference when you don't think your defense is going to give up 30 points every week.

At home, anyway. There has been a fairly large difference between home defense, and road defense.

Exactly. Preferably without being attacked or ridiculed for sharing their opinion, be it positive or critical.

I pretty much agree with your entire post except this part. No previous HC of the Browns since Haslam bought this team has went on to having ANY success as a HC in the NFL elsewhere. If there are any previous HC's he has fired that you think should not have been, please let us know who he/they are. I can't think of a single one myself. Now if you wish to say he did a poor job in selecting former Browns HC's I would agree with you. But I can't think of one he has fired I would want to see back or I thought firing them was a mistake, can you?

Kudos to Joe Flacco for giving it his all in a situation where he hasn't played in nearly a year.

A big "boo" to a supposedly top ranked defense for giving up 36 points and 399 total yards to a sub .500 team.

Finally, a huge level of "disgust" for as Head Coach that only ran the ball 23 times against a 13th ranked rushing defense while putting his QB, who hadn't played a game in nearly a year, back to pass 46 times (including the 2 sacks with a safety) against the 10th best pass defense. Really, 46 pass attempts for a guy that was playing "Mario Kart" in his den 2 weeks ago?

P.J. Walker 48.6% completion pct, Flacco 52.3% completion pct, and (R) DTR 53.2% completion pct and Stefanski has them throwing close to 40 passes per game nearly doubling the number of rush attempts. What a joke!

If haslam looks around the league and looks at our barely .500 coach and how we haven’t drafted a single playmaker in 4 years and thinks Berry and stefanski are the duo to get us there then I hope no one buys a single ticket . Haslam only cars about having enough money for his next Ponzi scheme. That’s why he bought the browns. He knows no matter how much they suck , the games will always sell out and fans will support with purchasing merchandising .

If you were the Rams, would you try to stop the run or stop Flacco?

We weren't exactly running the ball well today.

Guys, if you ever played football, you would understand that if a team has questions about the QB's ability to beat them in the air, they are going to try pretty hard to take away the run game and make the team best them in the air.

Add in the QB isn't mobile so he isn't going to hurt you on the ground. Stefanski has to throw to open up the chance of getting a running game going.

Flacco looked poised and made some nice throws to all areas of the field. The pick was the mistake.

IMO the mistake Stefanski made was going for it late, but was it really a mistake? Our D wasn't exactly looking like some "historic" D the last 2 weeks. Punt and maybe you never get the ball back. That is what you call the proverbial Rock and Hard spot.

Our defense was pretty much never going to stop the Rams when it mattered, so going for it was probably the wise call

We had our chance when it was 20-19 with 7 minutes remaining, got the ball back, and Flacco threw the pick. The game ended there

It never ceases to amaze me how individuals will go to such lengths to protect Stefanski. It's obvious that in your opinion, the LA Rams had the most bone crushing run defense the Browns have faced all year that it validated the lowest amount of rushing attempts by the Browns in any game this season. That staunch Rams run defense that was more fearful than the 49ers, Pittsburgh, Baltimore twice and Denver's weak run defenses necessitated dropping Flacco back to pass 46 times (twice as many as the rush attempts) to squeeze out 19 points while getting blown out by 17 points by a sub .500 team.

Since the loss of Chubb in week two, 3 of the Browns 4 losses have had Stefanski call less than 30 running plays in those games lost. In only 1 of the Browns 6 wins since losing Chubb did the Browns rush less than 30 times (29 against PIT). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Browns chance of victory is enhanced (no matter the QB) when the Browns run the ball more than 30 times per game since the Chubb injury. Instead, we have a head coach that has presented the lowest 2 games of the season in rushing attempts the last 2 weeks both resulting in losses. Hmmm, and this is the guy you think is going to lead the Browns to a Super Bowl?