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#2048682 12/10/23 06:05 PM
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- Phew, what a rollercoaster ... penalties, turnovers, injuries, great plays, bad plays, etc
- Flacco has really stabilized our offense .. I like mixing in a little DTR too
- Cooper had his worst day I can remember
- Hopkins continues to be a great move by AB

I hope the injuries don't keep piling up

We got some help with Houston and Indy losing


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I like it


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Another nail-biter. Flacco throws a catchable ball.
Our pass rush made Lawrence hurry, many times, but he hung in there. Good QB.

Do we ever win the coin flip?

Njoku with a great game, Loved the stiff arm on his second TD. We had trouble running the ball today but obviously we went pass-happy (props to pit). Tillman starting to be impactful, Elijah has stepped it up lately,

Gutsy play call on the 4th down play where Bell got his first TD. Etienne didn’t seem to be much of a factor, our run D bottled him up but he wasn’t used much after they fell behind.

Great win, back to loving Monday!

How about Hopkins with a clutch 55-yarder?

Harris didn’t seem to be an issue in pass blocking after Pocic went down. Man though, I hope we get some guys healthy.


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Imo, the Browns desperately need to make the playoffs this year for a number of reasons...culture, stability, resume/tenure/reputation of those in charge. Today was another step.

Browns turn the ball over a lot. And always deep in our own territory. And the defense can never just hold the other team to a FG in those situations; always concede the TD. If the Browns didn't turn the ball over today, the game probably ends 28-3ish.

Going to need more from Garrett down the stretch. He's the team's best player. Has to be a difference maker. Max Crosby now has more sacks than Garrett. Garrett has lost the DPOY in the last three weeks.

Terrible game management at the end of the first half. 3rd and 1, two timeouts, Jax with no timeouts, FG still in reach. You run the ball and if you don't get the first, you take it into the half. We pass incomplete and punt the ball back to Jax in the field of play where any number of things can happen.

Browns never cease to make it interesting. Absolutely despise the prevent defense.

Having said that, the refs inserted themselves into the game and tried to determine the outcome of the game with that call on Walker. Refs should never, EVER, determine the outcome of the game. And it wasn't even a penalty.

Glad to see Njoku have a big day. He's played poorly but he's one of the few leaders on the team.

Bears should be a win next week.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Think about all of the nail biters we've had .. we've all aged a decade


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Think about all of the nail biters we've had .. we've all aged a decade

The last time we had a ton of nailbiters, 2020, and won most of the games, Bill Barnwell had an article how the Browns would have a failed 2021 season since we were due to regress to the mean. He was right and it made a lot of sense at the time.

The only thing I kind of disagree with is nearly every game in the NFL comes down to the end. Occasionally you get the 28-3 game (like we should have had today without the turnovers), but almost every game is a nailbiter. The good teams figure out how to win more than lose those. See Baltimore.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Great game by two great football teams. Trevor will win 2-3 Superbowls in his career.
Njoku has hall of fame potential. Dustin Hopkins is one of the best acquisitions in Browns history.

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Great win, but that game went on too long between penalties and injuries
speaking of injuries, will we ever come out of a game unscathed? Just knew when the news came out that Delpit signed an extension that he'd get hurt
Flacco made some WTF passes today, and it seems any pass he attempts to the sideline just flies out of bounds, happy he did it with the ravens, not so happy now
On to the Bears next week, can't overlook them

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Very good win today!!! It really shouldn't have been that close. Too many TO's and the injuries ridiculous. We have to start taking better care of the ball. I expect Joe to throw a few he's still learning with the receivers it's the fumbles that have to stop. You won't go far in the playoffs, assuming you make them, with all these TO's!! Hope we get our OT's back too. Today was tough with those false start penalties!

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Good game today, against a good team. The Browns are playing without many starters, and are finding a way. That is good coaching. Those bashing Myles should rewatch the game. He was doubled constantly, and almost got to the QB many times. He actually was forcing early throws. The Dline showed up, and it was a difference maker. Cinci beat the Colts, but the Ravens pulled one out of their butt. The AFC is wide open, and our Browns are in the thick of it.

Can't take any team lightly from here on out. If Baltimore stumbles, we have a chance at the division.


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Another routine win......NOT. These guys are like the Cardiac Kids......WOW, a weird game.....we win with two normal linemen playing- 4th QB, on and on.....weird season and game......but I'll take the W for sure. Joe Flaco, a gamer- Go Browns!!!!


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Great win today! I enjoyed this game very much despite the stressful ending. Flacco gives me so much more confidence in our team. I feel like every game is winnable. We defeated a great team today!


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Originally Posted by RememberMuni
Great game by two great football teams. Trevor will win 2-3 Superbowls in his career.
Njoku has hall of fame potential. Dustin Hopkins is one of the best acquisitions in Browns history.

Njoku had a great game...he's been in the league 7 years and has 2,900 yard...far from any hall of fame career.

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Flacco really runs the offense smoothly, I wasn't on board with signing him but man was I wrong. As usual lol

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I saw three or four plays where Myles was held, on one of them he would have been half-decapitated if he wasn’t so beastly.


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- Great job by Stefanski and the coaching staff today. The 3rd and 1 TD to Njoku on an obvious run down was a great play call. Big win today.

- Nice job adjusting back to play action after realizing Flacco not suited to run the bootleg well.

- Emerson had himself a game.

- Big Mo Hurst was hustling all over the field.

- Offensive has got stop turning the ball over, multiple times, no less.

- Congrats to David Bell on his first career TD

- Great day punting for Bjorquez. Get him his contract extension.

- Dustin Hopkins with another big time kick. He's having a Pro Bowl season.

- Joe Flacco with a 3TD and 300+ yard passing day. First Browns QB to throw for 300+ yards since Jacoby Brissett last year.

- Njoku had a monster first half. Surprisingly zero receptions in the second half.

Game balls: Joe Flacco and MJ Emerson

This win may have locked up the playoffs for the Browns. Remaining games are all very winnable. Browns will likely be favored in all of them. The Texans losing Tank Dell was a big loss for Stroud.

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Forgot to mention Emerson .. that's a career type day


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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It’s amazing that this team is 8-5.


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Originally Posted by lampdogg
It’s amazing that this team is 8-5.

Imagine if they had none of the injuries.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man

After the way he played today, there is no reason not to have him as the Starter.

That guy still puts a lot of Zip on the ball... Geez You gotta ask, why didn't someone else sign him during camp? Sure made the Chief look great today,,


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We’ve had four QBs win a game, Chubb went out early, our offensive tackles are like, getting us by, somehow, thanks Bill!

DBs going down all over the place. 6-1 at the pound , that helps.

QBs named Joe who’ve won a super bowl, besides our new QB: Namath, theismann and Montana.


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Joe was the eventual starter when we signed him.


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Originally Posted by lampdogg
I saw three or four plays where Myles was held, on one of them he would have been half-decapitated if he wasn’t so beastly.
I saw that too and never got called. We are starting to get some respect cause at halftime the guys gave us props. Love seeing that finally.

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Originally Posted by lampdogg
Joe was the eventual starter when we signed him.


no doubt. I think they just wanted to see it in action and then some confirmation.
He'll probably still immediately revert to the practice squad, but they may go ahead and move him to the 53 this week... although, there's really no hurry to do so; we can still elevate him one more time. An injury to someone else putting them on IR might create the roster spot needed vs having to waive someone right now to do it.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Congrats on a great win today. Wish my team would have had the sense to sign Flacco.


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Congrats on a great win today. Wish my team would have had the sense to sign Flacco.


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Loved the way Flacco spread the ball around. I can’t tell if Ford just isn’t that good, if our line can’t run block or if we just don’t stick with the run long enough. Seems like Hudson draws a lot of penalties. Great win for us, especially since Lawrence ended up playing.

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that locker room stuff is cool


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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In Flacco we trust?

Man….so that’s what a real QB looks like, huh?

I just hope we can survive and gets some guys healthy.


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Joe and Tillman are starting to get their stuff together.Eli had another solid game.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Think about all of the nail biters we've had .. we've all aged a decade

The last time we had a ton of nailbiters, 2020, and won most of the games, Bill Barnwell had an article how the Browns would have a failed 2021 season since we were due to regress to the mean. He was right and it made a lot of sense at the time.

The only thing I kind of disagree with is nearly every game in the NFL comes down to the end. Occasionally you get the 28-3 game (like we should have had today without the turnovers), but almost every game is a nailbiter. The good teams figure out how to win more than lose those. See Baltimore.

It is different this year vs 2020. This year the team has overcome the most turnovers in the NFL. If this team could just play clean games we would be competing with the Rats for the division and not contending for a wildcard spot.


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I’d take Flacco’s play over DWs to this point. Seriously. Joe has had two good games. We only got one good game from DW.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I’d take Flacco’s play over DWs to this point. Seriously. Joe has had two good games. We only got one good game from DW.

I can't say I disagree but that might not be a good way of looking at it..shrug

At any rate, I doubt Flacco is on the team next year, but you never know. I think this season shows you need 3 QB's on the team.


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Doesn’t matter now, we are where we are. JF is our QB. DTR isn’t ready and maybe never will be, P.J. isn’t good, Watson is our guy in 2024 probably (we hope).


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I’d take Flacco’s play over DWs to this point. Seriously. Joe has had two good games. We only got one good game from DW.

I can't say I disagree but that might not be a good way of looking at it..shrug

At any rate, I doubt Flacco is on the team next year, but you never know. I think this season shows you need 3 QB's on the team.

I wasn’t saying that, I was talking games this year and going forward this season.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I’d take Flacco’s play over DWs to this point. Seriously. Joe has had two good games. We only got one good game from DW.

I can't say I disagree but that might not be a good way of looking at it..shrug

At any rate, I doubt Flacco is on the team next year, but you never know. I think this season shows you need 3 QB's on the team.

Or perhaps 4 quarterbacks.


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another thing I just thought about ... how good was Bojorquez today? That one punt alone changed the whole game


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I never saw DW look as poised and confident as Flacco. Not even close.

Flacco has surprised me and I'll be happy to eat my share of crow.

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75 yards! The longest punt of the year that has not gone out of bounds.

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I agree Jim ... Flacco has looked ten times the QB that DW has looked here

I also think part of it is that Stefanski seems to feel much more in-tune with a QB like Flacco, who is less athletic and more cerebral


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I enjoyed streaming the game here in Nanaimo, BC. Where I'll be through 2/29/24. Love waking uo to a 1000am game.


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good to hear from you Phil


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I agree Jim ... Flacco has looked ten times the QB that DW has looked here

I also think part of it is that Stefanski seems to feel much more in-tune with a QB like Flacco, who is less athletic and more cerebral

I agree. Joe is more a thinker, maybe call it a game manager. DW is more the carry the team type mentality.

We'll see next year with Watson. My hope is he backs off just a tad and just ties to manage games. He is still going to be able to shine when necessary.

If not, the tandem of Stefanski/Watson might not be the best coach/QB marriage.


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I have never loved or hated Stefanski. I’ve liked things and disliked things with him. I’ve been told you can’t criticize the head coach on this team anymore with a handful of some vocal posters. Haha, how times have changed. Don’t let homers take over the board, that’s the death of any message board.

Stefanski has done very well given the injuries and keeping the team together. I’m all in on these guys getting extensions.

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agreed ... giving AB and KS extensions is a no-brainer


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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My hope is he actually plays at least 3/4 of a season next year. That would be a huge improvement of his total of what, 9 games played so far? $230,000.00 doesn't buy what it used to, especially when compared with a guy that was sitting on his couch 3 weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
agreed ... giving AB and KS extensions is a no-brainer

Only real question that remains is will it be a three or four year extension?!? Also, safe to assume DePo will have a coinciding contract extension.

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
My hope is he actually plays at least 3/4 of a season next year. That would be a huge improvement of his total of what, 9 games played so far? $230,000.00 doesn't buy what it used to, especially when compared with a guy that was sitting on his couch 3 weeks ago.
Someone made a good point: Flacco surely didnt have much rust, if any. Watson had that excuse going for him for half a season


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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It'll be 5 years.


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A season and a half.

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lol true arch


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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In 2 games Joe has made the Browns rethink the DW decision.

He simply looks better. The numbers are better as well.

I like a smart big armed QB. I know that mobile is the fad today, but there is something to be said for a guy that can throw a 20 yard out from the far hash.

He can read a defense as well.. There is enough gas in the tank to get us to the end of the season and hopefully the playoffs.

Weapons come in many forms.

Kudos to KS for adapting to the skill set.


There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.

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KS seems much more at ease as a HC with Flacco than DW


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote
Imagine if they had none of the injuries.

....or even 20-25% fewer of the injuries.
This team was/is stacked as well as any front-runner in the league.
I truly believe that CLE's 2023 injury history has been the primary difference between their 8-5 record and BAL's 10-3... and nothing else.


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Overall great win... Flacco looked much better this week... chief had a hell of a first half... glad we ran a bit more, hope we continue to feed ford and hunt... our special teams are a strength this year... defense played well.

Overall great win.... Jags are a tough team, coming into this week I didn't think we'd win... glad to be wrong...


<><

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Love Hunt... we have kickers. Ks called a damn good game. Flacco will take us to the playoffs. Garette always seems to show up when really needed. The last pass interference was bs



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Whhy did we stop moving Garrett around the D-line? It seems like he was making more impact plays when he was moving between positions.


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He moved some yesterday. He wasn't very good in the first half but was much better in the second. I don't think they moved him around much in the second half. There were some blatant holding calls he didn't get, but no more than the usual hack a shaq stuff. He's feeling the pressure of not getting the stats and losing out on DPOY after the last three games so he went off on the officiating after the game. He's not wrong. But he could make that same argument after every game. But usually he'll have some stats as well so he doesn't say anything.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Looking at the Standings this morning.

Interesting. The Browns have the same record as the Chiefs.

The Browns have beaten three Division Leaders.

The Browns have beaten six teams with a winning record. The Browns have the third best record in the AFC.

Reading the game day thread today is hilarious. We have a knucklehead "follow the blind" spouting trash the whole game on how we would lose.

What we really have in the Browns is a team with enormous heart. A team to really get behind. Damn near a miracle story given that we are on qb 4.

We just Beat a division leader who will be a playoff team without three starting tackles. Without a pro bowl corner. Without the best runner in the league. Missing the starting center for over a half. Missing the starting two safeties. And starting a quarterback who was watching games on tv two weeks ago.

This morning this team has a 70% chance to make the playoffs.

And for all those who have questioned this team and this head coach we have beaten the current number one seeds in both the AFC (Ravens)and the NFC (Niners).

But I guess "we shoulda run the ball." I am pretty sure we were 4 for 4 on fourth down yesterday.

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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
My hope is he actually plays at least 3/4 of a season next year. That would be a huge improvement of his total of what, 9 games played so far? $230,000.00 doesn't buy what it used to, especially when compared with a guy that was sitting on his couch 3 weeks ago.

I hope so too.

It is time to get over the money thing. As long as the team is competitive and wins games, it doesn't matter how the salary cap money is disbursed.


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I did the playoff machine thingy (I try to avoid it before week 15 or so), and it would be awfully nice to get the Bengals or Steelers another loss or two because of the "top 2 in the division" tie-breaker thing.

Basically, IMO the season is going to come down to that last game in Cincy. Gonna probably have to win it.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Someone said Flacco is more of a “game manager” than Watson, and I know what was meant. But I think of a game manager as a cerebral, noodle armed guy who dinks and dunks and doesn’t turn it over. Flacco can do that, but he can also throw a football 80 yards. I don’t want to dump on Watson too much, because he played hurt and he did look good at times. But if both were healthy next year and you put money aside, I’d feel much better rolling with Joe. He’s had two games in a row that may have been better than any game DW has had for us.

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Joe is just a proven, vested professional. He's not close to what he used to be, but his experience is noticeable and he commands an offense

We won't win the Super Bowl with him, but honestly he fits our team more than Watson


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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If we win our home games that will give us 10 wins.

That will most likely get us in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Joe is just a proven, vested professional. He's not close to what he used to be, but his experience is noticeable and he commands an offense

We won't win the Super Bowl with him, but honestly he fits our team more than Watson

Does he ?

It's obvious you and others don't like Watson and that's okay

But Watson was 5-1 before the injury

Flacco is 1-1

Watson isn't the crap you try to make him out to be

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Just want to say that I think Zadarius Smith deserves more blame than Myles. One thing I've keyed on over the past several weeks is that teams are - once again - rolling more blockers toward Myles like they did the last few seasons. Some of this is more speculation on my part, but toward the beginning of the year, Smith received more attention. Now, not so much. I think teams have concluded he deserves JAG blocking.


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IMO this game exposed just how rusty DW still was and how ready a true SB QB is when his number is called. DW will never take the Browns there.


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Originally Posted by bonefish
Looking at the Standings this morning.

Interesting. The Browns have the same record as the Chiefs.

The Browns have beaten three Division Leaders.

The Browns have beaten six teams with a winning record. The Browns have the third best record in the AFC.

Reading the game day thread today is hilarious. We have a knucklehead "follow the blind" spouting trash the whole game on how we would lose.

What we really have in the Browns is a team with enormous heart. A team to really get behind. Damn near a miracle story given that we are on qb 4.

We just Beat a division leader who will be a playoff team without three starting tackles. Without a pro bowl corner. Without the best runner in the league. Missing the starting center for over a half. Missing the starting two safeties. And starting a quarterback who was watching games on tv two weeks ago.

This morning this team has a 70% chance to make the playoffs.

And for all those who have questioned this team and this head coach we have beaten the current number one seeds in both the AFC (Ravens)and the NFC (Niners).

But I guess "we shoulda run the ball." I am pretty sure we were 4 for 4 on fourth down yesterday.



Sounds like a recipe to get a coach & GM fired. Maybe the league will step in and do us all a favor and take the team from Jimmy. FYI, yep, it's sarcasm.

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I know we are all Browns fans at heart.

It is time to just get behind this team. We stand today with a team that has proven it can beat any team in the NFL.

If you dislike KS so be it. However, to deny what is happening this season is fallacy.

All that we all want is to win. Make no mistake this team can win. They have proven that.

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as you said bone, the encouraging thing is when you look at the teams we have beaten:

Cincinnati with Burrow playing
San Francisco with PJ Walker
at Indianapolis with PJ Walker
Pittsburgh with DTR
at Baltimore
Jacksonville


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
KS seems much more at ease as a HC with Flacco than DW

I said that during game, KS loves having a QB like flacco, I think the playbook is even more open than with Watson. I knew when we signed flacco he was going to be an upgrade, but he has surprised me with how quickly he's picked up everything.. You knew reading defenses and all that would be nothing to him.. My only regret is we should have had him all season, I would even entertain bringing him back next year. Its clear he has a calming effect on everyone, even when the game was getting tight and they did a close up of him at the line you saw ZERO trepidation. I firmly believe if we had Chubb this season we are probably sitting at 10-3 maybe even 11-2. Our backs with this line struggle, but hunt picks up those tough yards. Hudson is such a liability that I can't believe theres nothing better on a PS somewhere. I thought we should be getting Wills back soon. Hopefully Jones is back next week as well. The biggest threat to our playoff chances right now is health, I can't remember a season with this many injuries to this many starters. Thats one thing I think KS has done well is keeping everyone focused and not letting them lose the fact that it's next man up and any given sunday. I do enjoy hearing his locker room talks and I like KS mostly, just some things playcalling that I wish we would clean up.. Yesterday there were a few scary calls but because we had flacco it was masked because he executed perfectly. The 4th down run by DTR i wasn't a fan of because of the injury factor but it worked perfectly. This team at full strength could do some damage in the playoffs. Browns vs Ravens in first round with Flacco at QB, that would be must watch TV and media would go wild with the hype. Then if the browns knock the ravens out...

Also, our kickers are probably the best pairing we've ever had.. they are both weapons. I think Hopkins is as good as phil ever was and CB being able to flip the field was huge yesterday when offense was struggling. Just wish we had a return game. On to Chicago, def. don't want to overlook them and they just stomped detroit. Hopefully fields has another game like his last one against us


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Well, with Flacco we would have probably won in Pittsburgh and Seattle, so we'd be 10-3 IMO


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Well, with Flacco we would have probably won in Pittsburgh and Seattle, so we'd be 10-3 IMO
no doubt


Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
It is time to get over the money thing. As long as the team is competitive and wins games, it doesn't matter how the salary cap money is disbursed.

And the draft picks too, right? I mean nobody should actually consider ROI.

That's like saying that it shouldn't matter that you paid 75k for a 1997 Impala because you can still manage to get to work.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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j/c:

Do you all think Berry, Stefanski, and DePo will get their extensions during the remainder of the season, the playoffs, or the offseason????

Maybe I'll make a poll.


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Originally Posted by The Big G
But if both were healthy next year and you put money aside, I’d feel much better rolling with Joe. He’s had two games in a row that may have been better than any game DW has had for us.

I don't believe that's true at all. Against the Titans watson was 27-33 for 289 yards and 2 td's. The Jags pass defense was ranked 30th in the league going into the game yesterday. That made it obvious how easy it was to exploit them in the passing game. So I don't see Flacco as having close to a "better game" than watsion had against the Titans. I also feel if you actually think that Flacco played "well" last week you could look at watson's game against Arizona where he was 19-30 for 219 yards and 2 tds. as a game that was better than last week.

Don't get me wrong, dollar for dollar the Browns are getting a lot more bang for their buck with Flacco. But at the same time I think there are moments people go a little overboard with their claims.

Trying to keep this thing in context I think Flacco is doing a fine job. He's keeping the O competitive. I see him as playing above average. Nothing great but good. That's more than I had hoped for at this stage of the season. Let's just say if he continues on this path his ass won't be home sitting on the couch next year. While at the same time I don't have confidence this FO will keep him here.


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A player going to bat for his coach.



Tackles are tackles.
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First thing that came to mind:
Photoshop.

Still doesn't look right, but I'll take it.


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

Do you all think Berry, Stefanski, and DePo will get their extensions during the remainder of the season, the playoffs, or the offseason????

Maybe I'll make a poll.

No matter the date, it will be one day before mac ends up on the psych ward. grin


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- John Muir

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It’s an unpopular position to speak truth to irrational exuberance the day after a good win. I watched a good bit of Joe last year with the Jets as I live in NY market and have a lot of Jets and Giants fan friends. He had good games, he had bad games, he had very bad games. He’s absolutely the best option we have right now and his steady demeanor is just what we need. But people declaring that he should be next years starter and that he’s better than DW hands down… umm, let’s pump the brakes a little bit people. DW has been a big disappointment so far and many of us would much rather we never pursued the guy but come on now, let’s wait and see how the next 4 games play out. Browns fans are so predictable.




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No doubt, he's not even close to being a good QB. He's just experienced and seasoned. However, I also think KS will put him in better spots to succeed than Saleh


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by 10YrOvernightSuccess
and that he’s better than DW hands down…

To be fairrrrr.... as a Browns QB, he is far ahead of DW.



.... just wait until he gets rid of all the rust from not playing since last year.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I feel like I've heard that before...


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Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
Those bashing Myles should rewatch the game. He was doubled constantly, and almost got to the QB many times. He actually was forcing early throws.

If nothing else, watch his press conference. He went IN on the refs.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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I agree about pump the brakes.

Expectations have to be realistic. There is no doubt he is our best option currently.

At the same time with all he has accomplished as a quarterback. He is still Joe Flacco. He could at any given time throw a head scratching pic.

But I tell ya. Talk about a story. Joe could also play out of his mind. He has done that before.

We have beaten the Niners. We have beaten the Ravens. The two current top seeds.

If people think we can not do that again in the playoffs. Think again. It is for sure in the realm of possibility.

Next year? Hell Joe could go sailing and forget about playing anymore. He is not replacing DW.

We still do know what DW will be like. He was just starting to show some promise. He is still a young man with a large skill set.

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Originally Posted by 10YrOvernightSuccess
It’s an unpopular position to speak truth to irrational exuberance the day after a good win. I watched a good bit of Joe last year with the Jets as I live in NY market and have a lot of Jets and Giants fan friends. He had good games, he had bad games, he had very bad games. He’s absolutely the best option we have right now and his steady demeanor is just what we need. But people declaring that he should be next years starter and that he’s better than DW hands down… umm, let’s pump the brakes a little bit people. DW has been a big disappointment so far and many of us would much rather we never pursued the guy but come on now, let’s wait and see how the next 4 games play out. Browns fans are so predictable.

I think this is the most balanced take on the QB situation I've seen in this thread - it does two things simultaniously: 1. Acknowledges that Joe isn't some 38 year old super hero coming to lead the Browns anywhere in the future and there's every chance he'll stumble in games before this season is out. All things being equal I would MUCH rather roll with DW next season. 2. It acknowleddges that DW has been a big disappointment and woefully underperformed versus any expectations fans could have - even those wanting to make excuses for truly abysmal performances based on 'RUST'. People seem to conviniently forget just how much time DW had with the team the season he missed 11 games, how much work he alledgedly did to be 'ready' even before that, how very badly he played as a result ... and Joe comes in and plays after wat, a week? 10-12 days? and he looked 'just about good enough' in week 2.

None of which relates to DW's baggage and any of my emotions regarding him and the trade. It's a pretty simple comp based on what he's done in a Brown's Uni and what Flaco has done/looked in 2 games. Someone pointed to DW being 5-1 this year - which is true. I'd like to point out in 3 of those games, Cinci scored 3 points. Titans scored 3 points. Cardinals scored 0 points. So keep things in perspective.

As for Sunday and the Jaguars.

- I thought we played well and beat a good team.
- We would have dominated a good team excpect for turnovers and penalties.
- Joe looked comfortable and seasoned and his "steady demeanor" to coin a phrase from 10yrOvernight - is a perfect description and what the team is in need of right now.
- Ford ran well - I didn't see any glaring holes or cut backs missed. Personally as other have mentioned I think his biggest failing is he's not Chubb. As a back up NFL RB he is adequate and shows some decent speed now and then.
- For all that Hunt is a bit of a shell of himself, he does bring it to the best of his ability every single touch.
- Cooper who I love as a WR had a bad game. But I think he and Joe will do some good things as long as Joe is healthy. Cooper gets separation, Joe can throw with anticipation still.
- Stefanski called a good game - I didn't agree with going for it on 4th when Hunt got the yards needed. People always talk about only criticizing plays when they don't work - I don't agee that's it at all and this is an example. Conversely before Njoku made the catch, I was already happy with the play action on that play in the 1st Q.... low risk high reward because of the field position and score and time left. Hunt's 4th down had too much negative consequence for not making it.
- Another play I didn't like was the pass before the 55 yard FG ... if you are happy to kick the 55 yarder, run it for 2 yards if that's what you get. Take the 35 seconds off the clock.
- Delphit injury was such a slap in the face ... I have not seen any updates today. Hope he and every Brown that's fighting injury can get healthy for a season ending play off push.

- Defense did pretty good for 90% of the game. I don't know if MG is fighting injury or just fighting double teams.... someone somewhere should have stats on that?

- As others said, game balls to Hopkins and Flaco.
- On to the Bears .... a winnnable game. Will we win it??!!


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Originally Posted by Clemdawg
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Imagine if they had none of the injuries.

....or even 20-25% fewer of the injuries.
This team was/is stacked as well as any front-runner in the league.
I truly believe that CLE's 2023 injury history has been the primary difference between their 8-5 record and BAL's 10-3... and nothing else.

Baltimore essentially had the same thing going on last year (I'd argue moreso since their roster all healthy is essentially the same).


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

Jack Conklin injury feels like it was seasonS ago.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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it was, its just a new one for this year..lol


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I hope we scour the PS around the league for another tackle... i can't fathom Hudson in a playoff game


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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by 10YrOvernightSuccess
It’s an unpopular position to speak truth to irrational exuberance the day after a good win. I watched a good bit of Joe last year with the Jets as I live in NY market and have a lot of Jets and Giants fan friends. He had good games, he had bad games, he had very bad games. He’s absolutely the best option we have right now and his steady demeanor is just what we need. But people declaring that he should be next years starter and that he’s better than DW hands down… umm, let’s pump the brakes a little bit people. DW has been a big disappointment so far and many of us would much rather we never pursued the guy but come on now, let’s wait and see how the next 4 games play out. Browns fans are so predictable.

I think this is the most balanced take on the QB situation I've seen in this thread - it does two things simultaniously: 1. Acknowledges that Joe isn't some 38 year old super hero coming to lead the Browns anywhere in the future and there's every chance he'll stumble in games before this season is out. All things being equal I would MUCH rather roll with DW next season. 2. It acknowleddges that DW has been a big disappointment and woefully underperformed versus any expectations fans could have - even those wanting to make excuses for truly abysmal performances based on 'RUST'. People seem to conviniently forget just how much time DW had with the team the season he missed 11 games, how much work he alledgedly did to be 'ready' even before that, how very badly he played as a result ... and Joe comes in and plays after wat, a week? 10-12 days? and he looked 'just about good enough' in week 2.

None of which relates to DW's baggage and any of my emotions regarding him and the trade. It's a pretty simple comp based on what he's done in a Brown's Uni and what Flaco has done/looked in 2 games. Someone pointed to DW being 5-1 this year - which is true. I'd like to point out in 3 of those games, Cinci scored 3 points. Titans scored 3 points. Cardinals scored 0 points. So keep things in perspective.

2 very reasonable takes. I don't disagree, but I do wonder if there's something to the argument that 1 type of QB meshes a little more with KS, and the other doesn't. We kinda saw the same thing with Brisset last season. QBs that throw an accurate ball to the right person at the right time seem to play above their assumed level, while QBs (despite being clearly more talented) that maybe like to freelance a bit more... it just never looks smooth out there. I sometimes got the same feeling watching Watson play as I did OBJ that somethings just weren't clicking.


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I'm just not quite sure how anyone can suggest that it may be the HC who doesn't work well with a QB who you yourself said is obviously "freelancing". The very term freelancing means he's working outside of what the play that's actually being called is and what the HC's game plan calls for. Now if you were to suggest that QB's perform better when they maintain control and work within the system and playbook without freelancing, to me that would make more sense.

And that seems to be a theme with watson to this point. I'm certainly not suggesting that Flacco is a better QB but one clear difference, at least to my untrained eye, is that when a play breaks down or nobody is open, Flacco doesn't worry so much about his stats. He'll simply throw the ball away and live for another day/play. It may hurt his pass completion percentage but it doesn't lead to a sack or an int. He seems to remain very calm under pressure.

With watson it's as if he feels he's carrying the entire weight of the team on his shoulders. That come hell or high water he just HAS TO make something happen on every down. And while on the surface that seems like a admirable quality, in execution it has led to putting the team in down and distance situations that are not good and injuries. It seems to me that if he could just calm down a little and not play hero ball on every down it would put the O in a better position.

Maybe it's the outside pressure and he feels he's in a situation he has to show greatness. Maybe he feels that this contract will determine his entire future. I'm really not an expert enough to be qualified to read someone's thoughts that way. But it almost seems like he's trying so hard it's counterproductive when he plays. He was certainly improving before his injury and I'm sure we all hope he continues down that path upon his return.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

Do you all think Berry, Stefanski, and DePo will get their extensions during the remainder of the season, the playoffs, or the offseason????

Maybe I'll make a poll.

No matter the date, it will be one day before mac ends up on the psych ward. grin

Sometimes fate finds a way.


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So we're going to credit FATE with it?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Always money:

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
It is time to get over the money thing. As long as the team is competitive and wins games, it doesn't matter how the salary cap money is disbursed.

And the draft picks too, right? I mean nobody should actually consider ROI.

That's like saying that it shouldn't matter that you paid 75k for a 1997 Impala because you can still manage to get to work.

To be fair, 1997 Impalas don't exist. I own a 96, and they were discontinued by GM after that year until they brought it back in 2000 with the FWD version. Sorry just being an Impala nerd lol

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Considering the fact watson hasn't been available to take the field for most games since he's been here may make my comparison even more appropriate. naughtydevil


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With watson it's as if he feels he's carrying the entire weight of the team on his shoulders. That come hell or high water he just HAS TO make something happen on every down. And while on the surface that seems like a admirable quality, in execution it has led to putting the team in down and distance situations that are not good and injuries. It seems to me that if he could just calm down a little and not play hero ball on every down it would put the O in a better position.

This!

My belief is Watson is trying too hard to live up to the contract, getting his personal issues behind him, and the normal pressure of making the playoffs directing a talented offense.

While in Houston, I am not sure how much free-lancing Watson had under Bill O'Brien. He might have more options under Stefanski and is trying to get comfortable going through his reads.

I believe Watson simply needs to string 4-6 games together. The offense was designed around DeSean and everyone is new to it. Watson starts getting comfortable and gets hurt.

With as much talent as was on this team at the beginning of the season, the Browns are still successful with average QB play after all the injuries. That in of itself is remarkable.

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I think Joe was meshing with the system just like you said fir the reasons you said. On time throws to the right read at a spot. I think reading the D is a part of that.

I don't know why DW has struggled. A 38 yr old immobile QB had shown us that rust shouldn't be that big a deal... The mental aspect of what he's dealt/dealing with has to be a factor. Beyond that I just don't know.


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

Do you all think Berry, Stefanski, and DePo will get their extensions during the remainder of the season, the playoffs, or the offseason????

Maybe I'll make a poll.

No matter the date, it will be one day before mac ends up on the psych ward. grin

Sometimes fate finds a way.

Since none of you can tell us what Depo does, because none of you "boys" have a clue....he made his name in BASEBALL, not football.

The Browns are not playing BASEBALL any longer, especially on defense. Stefanski and Haslam were not about to talk someone like new Defensive Coordinator Jim Schwartz to take a job in Cleveland under the leadership of someone who was a record setter like Depodesta, who broke the Browns record for judging talent and showing Browns fans what his Baseball leadership could do for a once proud NFL franchise, our Browns, logging a record 1 win and 31 losses in his first two years working for the Browns.

Let us not forget that Depo takes credit for the Watson deal...imo, those two of the worst stains in Browns history, in part due to Depo's superior Baseball judgement.

Depodesta will be gone before I am, so you folks can hope all you want...not gonna happen. What we are experiencing this season is what Real Football is supposed to look like...it's a struggle and it's a fight, well worth waging...enjoy it, knowing that Depo is not front and center with his superior baseball knowledge..!




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Depo gets paid by Haslam- if he wasn't earning his money I think he'd be gone- you know better. This TEAM has surely surprised many of us. How can you lose so many starters AND backups and still be winning games. The front office should get kudos too- finding folks who somehow get low individual grades- yet keep solid starters from other teams contained. WOW- HC and his bunch......hats off to you and yours- lastly, players are not bitching at each other - do your job- so far it is working.....GO Browns!!!


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Depo became a Baseball guy. He was a numbers nerd or something. They are using his same concept on football. Something like that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_DePodesta



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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

Do you all think Berry, Stefanski, and DePo will get their extensions during the remainder of the season, the playoffs, or the offseason????

Maybe I'll make a poll.

No matter the date, it will be one day before mac ends up on the psych ward. grin

Sometimes fate finds a way.

Since none of you can tell us what Depo does, because none of you "boys" have a clue....he made his name in BASEBALL, not football.

The Browns are not playing BASEBALL any longer, especially on defense. Stefanski and Haslam were not about to talk someone like new Defensive Coordinator Jim Schwartz to take a job in Cleveland under the leadership of someone who was a record setter like Depodesta, who broke the Browns record for judging talent and showing Browns fans what his Baseball leadership could do for a once proud NFL franchise, our Browns, logging a record 1 win and 31 losses in his first two years working for the Browns.

Let us not forget that Depo takes credit for the Watson deal...imo, those two of the worst stains in Browns history, in part due to Depo's superior Baseball judgement.

Depodesta will be gone before I am, so you folks can hope all you want...not gonna happen. What we are experiencing this season is what Real Football is supposed to look like...it's a struggle and it's a fight, well worth waging...enjoy it, knowing that Depo is not front and center with his superior baseball knowledge..!

Never change.


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I think people need to step back a little about Joe. Yes he is playing well, and he looks good in this offense. But a lot of this has to do with no film on him in this offense. Trust me, teams are going to find his weakness and tendencies, and things could change. I hope he can adjust when they do.

My concern is more with the defense and the injuries there. To make a serious push, this defense needs to get healthy.


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Oh, absolutely, but it's still nice to see ANY QB come in and actually pick up the offense, knock off the rust, and look decent in under 18 months.


As for the rest... the defense and the OLine is what will be our undoing, if anything. We're down to what... our 4th string RT and 2nd or 3rd string LT? I don't even know anymore. Add in backup Center and the praise for Teller & Bitonio just cannot be high enough for what they're doing. The DLine rotation just took a major hit with Mo Hurst going to IR and our secondary is a shadow of its early season self.

I honestly don't know if we have enough guys to get healthy that haven't already gone to IR.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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The main reason we won:

Mark Sanchez did not announce the game.

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Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Bottom line:

Mark Sanchez not announcing this game was one of the key reasons we won.

<Gulp> Sanchez is back this week. The NFL throwing everything they can at the Browns to derail the season!

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Damn it, I spoke too soon

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Bottom line:

Mark Sanchez not announcing this game was one of the key reasons we won.

<Gulp> Sanchez is back this week. The NFL throwing everything they can at the Browns to derail the season!

The NFL is fixed.


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
Bottom line:

Mark Sanchez not announcing this game was one of the key reasons we won.

<Gulp> Sanchez is back this week. The NFL throwing everything they can at the Browns to derail the season!

The NFL is fixed.


Like Actor's out on loan? A dog without a bone?


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Look at what the Patriots got away with. Anyone who thinks the NFL is on the level needs to rethink and do a little research.

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MAC

Don’t lose your mind over analytics again. DEPO built this team. Helped, anyway.


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His brain is squirmin' like a toad

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Let your children play


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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