DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The part of the DW trade that is forgotten

We just had our third winning season in 23 or 24 seasons. We just made the playoffs for the third time in 23 or 24 seasons. Two of those happens while this imaginary egotistic Stefanski was coach.

If this is called setting us back, then please give me another helping of it. There’s a good chance I would get seconds and maybe thirds of that helping.

I'm pretty sure what you responded to was intended as satire. Not sure though.

Which part is a fable or story?

Which part of it can you back up with any facts other than your own opinion? That should answer your question. The only reported time Baker actually tried to use his power is when he demanded a trade. And that's after he knew the FO was trying to replace him. Name a player who doesn't want to move on after that? Only a player who doesn't want a chance to start elsewhere.

Yea, I would agree. However, Baker is involved so you can never be sure, lol

lol I laugh at people that think Dorsey isn't a good personnel guy. Literally 4 teams he's had a hand in made the playoffs with two of them still playing and the QB he drafted for us still playing.. I ask again.. Name the impact players we've drafted.. They LOVE dorsey in detroit. Baker wasn't the problem here, we had much bigger problems than QB when baker was here. We still have same problems

That's cool. He still arrived here with a King's Bounty, spent it frivolously, and still ended up with the wrong QB. Then proceeded to make the dumbest coaching hire in Browns history.

The reason we lost is because Houston is reaping the benefits of Cleveland’s draft choices.

Irony. Karma.

bahahaha..,.says you. the QB he picked is still playing in the playoffs. and you want to talk about spending...take no further look than one Andrew Berry.. dude can't draft to save his life so he goes and spends in free agency and then squandered all our meaningful draft picks for the next 4 years for a QB that can't get on the field and when he does looks nothing like what they thought they were trading for

Is that you JD?

3 good draft picks, 3! That is all CLE had to show for during the Doof's time and the bounty of picks Sashi and company provided to him. Ward, Chubb, and Taki. The rest, hot garbage, or he traded them away for the glorious OBJ and Jarvis.

As for the QB he picked, JA's team is still in the playoffs, too.

He screwed the pooch that year, big time. He compounded it by choosing Kitchens as his head coach - LOL - really. Brilliant, Doof. Only thing worse than that was choosing Hue as HC, but that's on Jimmy.

I think people may wish to wait until they see the results of how this whole watson deal plays before they start pointing fingers at which guy sucks worse.

Baker is also on his 4th team and was benched for Sam Bradford at one point.

I root for Baker, but I'm also not pretending that he's something he's not. He's not here for the same reason he's not with the Panthers or the Rams. He's in the playoffs because he now plays in a WEAK division and carved up a vulnerable Eagles secondary (who were beaten by the Giants and the Cardinals in the previous 2 games). If your point is that Dorsey picked a QB who could look like a HoF'er against subpar competition and then hot garbage the next week (with a #1 pick), then you'd be right.

I would like to see if Berry did any better with the watson trade before I cast stones at Dorsey. Unless of course you're willing to say they both suck if the watson deal falls flat.

Baker led his team to 6 wins in their last 7 games and a Division Championship on a re-building team with 75 million in dead cap hit...all year long I read "just wait until Baker plays a 'real' team"...then he went out and whipped a pre-season SB contender and previous year SB team...but they were 'vulnerable'. Yeah they were vulnerable..and he carved them up.

Now he goes on to play the #1/#2 team in the NFC and if he doesn't prevail, the still-butt-hurt Buckeye fans will be here to tell us his ceiling is QB2. He's a 13-18 type QB...plenty to win a SB with something better than a re-building team in Cap hell with a defensive-minded head coach and a terrible OL and running game...and having just had the GOAT QB retire.

He's not here because we made a mistake...period. He was a one-year rental in Carolina and they were drafting a QB at #1...he was a few game rental for the Rams...destroyed a team in primetime on a decimated team after having arrived 4 days prior...and the Rams still had a SB-winning QB on a huge deal in Stafford. So 4 teams...yep...one foolishly couldn't figure it out with him...one wanted a bridge AND HE WAS TRADED THERE...the 3rd team already had a FQB and the 4th team just won their division with him. My goodness that argument is as lazy as the people who compared Baker to Manziel.

Here's a trend to consider with Baker:

Yet another new coach and in COVID fog he made the playoffs and even won a game with 'some guy named Blake' at LT...then was one Chad Henne jailbreak away from the AFC Championship game;

Then started the first 1.3 games on fire and destroyed his non-throwing shoulder...but gutted it out anyway...what a douchbag;

Has surgery then was back-stabbed and traded to one of the worst teams in the league that was sure to draft a QB the first chance they get...then was rented to finish out the year with a team that had the FQB;

Then goes to a re-building team and wins the division and a playoff game.

What a turd.

Imagine that unwanted QB on this team with (3) 1st Rd picks plus whatever other picks and 200 million of cap space. They/we need DW4 to make us forget that^...even though many already have.

Lastly, this isn't about Baker the person...insert any name you want into an example like THAT ^ and tell me what people would conclude.

When Baker found out the Browns were talking to Watson

Baker asked to be traded

Baker could have stayed with the Browns

Watson would have had to beat out Baker for the starting job

I just wonder if Baker didn't ask to be traded, if the Browns would have given Watson that money

If Baker said bring him in I'll beat him out for the job

Wonder how the Browns would have reacted

It's done and over with and it's every individuals feelings on this matter

Like Baker , Don't like Baker he's doing the Bucs a good thing now

What I don't like about the NFL, they take most QBs who are very successful in how they play

And want to change them into something they are not

Let Baker play how Baker likes to play and his playing abilities and drive will win games

Like what Tampa is letting him do now

I'm a Buckeye fan and Baker planting the flag has no impact on how I feel about him

It's who he is, and there are many athletes in every sport that I like and don't like

There have been plenty of Browns players I didn't like and when they moved on to another team

I still didn't like him. If you like Baker fine, if you don't like him fine

Nothing any of us can do, we are just fans with opinions and different personalities

Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't

All I know is the team has Watson now, like it or not

All I can do is hope for the best and that he proves to be worth the trade

Whether he does or not time will tell

Until then.

I like Baker and it’d be cool if he went deep with the Bucs, but he has limitations. Then again, DW has a few, also. 😂
Such as limited availability.

But. The trade was made, we thought we were getting a great QB. So there ya go, can’t do anything about it now. If Watson blows chunks next year, it will go down as worst trade ever.

I'm still waiting for him to play a real team. Those 6 wins came against the Panthers x2, the Falcons, the Jags and Eagles (who were both falling apart at the seams), and the Packers (who would be the only team coming close to an argument here). Prior to that they beat the Saints, Bears and Titans. When he did face a real team....Lions, Bills, Niners, Texans, he lost.

I like Baker.....and other players who really seem to enjoy playing the game. I just don't think he can be consistently good against quality competition, and I'm glad he's not a Brown..


,

This.

And it came up again on Carmen and Lima. Baker was not universally liked in the locker room. Carmen went so far to say that he was told players felt like Baker was a me guy.

Hard to build a culture you are seeing now on the Browns when the QB is viewed that way.

j/c

Here's the point:

Go back to my last post...change the words 'Baker' to 'Dave'...there is no way to rationalize dumping Dave for what, when, why they did. It's not the person...it's the player.

Oftentimes in the workplace, not everyone 'likes' their co-workers...I imagine the NFL is no different...especially those in leadership positions.

Every team in the NFL is real. Now we want to bag on Dave because in those 6 of 7 games he lead his team against only one playoff team they beat = Packers...who just beat the pants off the Cowboys in Dallas...and suddenly beating the Eagles in the playoffs doesn't 'count'. C'mon man.

We beat Clayton Tune. Trevor Simien and Case Keenum and other trash teams and our HC is a COY candidate...but Dave wins 6 of 7 and a playoff game and he's trash.

Butt-hurt Buckeye fans...if you aren't one, I'm not talking to/about you...you already know who you are.

How about butt hurt Browns fans that thought we had a team that could compete for the Super Bowl in 2021 and Baker and his childish fits caused strife and division in the locker room and drove OBJ out of town. You're starting QB should not be causing strife and division. I am glad Baker, and his Bucs won a playoff game. Hopefully he has grown up. He sure got humbled last couple years. I like our team now better without him. He was never worthy of the #1 overall pick and proved it with his time here.

Another brilliant move by The Doof.

Trading a 1st, 4th, and Peppers for that crap show. The Ultimate Me guy - spot on Mac. But hey, he was a real team player - please. All about himself, always has been, always will be.

I see this and I hear this. But the Browns weren't trying to get watson to have a QB competition. Watson was going to cost a fortune any way you look at it and everyone knew it. You don't compete to make that deal unless it's a clear sign to upgrade the QB position and everyone knew it. And most certainly Baker knew it.

So if you were Baker, where would that leave you? Your employer made it plain to you they didn't think you're good enough. They're looking to replace you with any legitimate opportunity they can find. Would that look like the best opportunity for you to stay in? At the very least Baker has proven he's an average starting NFL QB. That means he would have been an upgrade to at least half of the NFL teams out there. That would give him at least a good opportunity to start on half the teams in the NFL.

So what would you want to do? Stay with a team that has proven they have no confidence in you and are looking to replace you? Or try to get on a team where you would have an opportunity to be the clear cut starter? Because as much as fans look at it from a fans standpoint, the NFL is a career for these players. One with a very tight timeline and they won't be within playing age for long in the grand scheme of things. For their family and long term financial future, they have to make the most of that opportunity. From that standpoint I would have done exactly what Baker did.

As much as fans want players to have team loyalty, their first and foremost loyalty should lie with their family and their families financial future. As it should with us all.

I'm kind of in the middle. And I'll be clear, I'm a Mayfield fan because he's an underdog and very easy to cheer for. Love the dude, love to watch him win. Is he a great QB? Nope. Could he have won a championship here? Yep -- this year! (Mostly joking, but definitely a possibility)

Now obviously no one is privy to behind the scenes, but it's evident that he was a big douche during the injury and thought he could dictate when he would play. Even going so far as saying something about "talking to his people" concerning the injury. I feel like he thought he was the commodity and the Browns had no hope without him... he got a career-changing wake up call.

Him penning his 'goodbye' as soon as the Browns got on the plane was petulant child material. It was also rather cold and calculated in the respect that he knew that would cost us a bundle when the other 31 knew he would refuse to play here.

Did I expect "I have no problem with the organization doing it's due diligence to explore all possibilities, that's what makes good teams better. Am I little hurt and offended? Sure. But I'm a big boy and we'll get through this". ??

Nope. But I didn't expect a middle finger and someone pooping on the floor on the way out either. Hey, that's part of what makes him tick, and everyone's different. I can promise you: we could all sign an apology letter, beg him to come back and offer him the sun, moon and stars to do so... his reply would be an arrogant smirk and a firm "no thanks". That's just who he is, and I actually kind of admire it as much as I hate it.

That's another way to look at it and a lot of people do. But consider this, Stefanski may very well have saw that there was no structural damage to Baker's shoulder and left it up to him whether to play or not. None of us will ever know one way or the other about that. But the bottom line is that the HC makes the call on who starts and who doesn't. If Stefanski thought Baker should sit while allowing him to play, it would be a sign of very poor leadership on Stefanski's part to allow Baker to dictate that.

And you may see it as him acting like a petulant child in regards to him demanding a trade. I can see why you would. But I think that's more of fans perspective than looking at it from the business side. If I knew my employer was attempting to replace me I would want to work somewhere that I felt my talents would be more appreciated and I would have a better opportunity to showcase those talents. I would be thinking of my financial future and that of my family more than the Browns since the Browns were also thinking of replacing me for what they felt was best for their future.

That's one place I suppose causes my point of view to be different than others. During my working career I knew that employers wanted the best man for the job at the cheapest price they could pay. That's not something I see as being evil or anything. That's the very objective of a business to maximize their profits anywhere they can. Businesses that conduct things otherwise would be foolish IMO.

I on the other hand wanted to make the most possible money and benefits for my talent. That's what's best for my family and myself. I never felt obligated to give my employer more loyalty or consideration than they had shown me. I always considered life a two way street.

If I had known at any point in time I was working for someone who was looking to replace me, I would have been immediately been looking for a new job. And I would have jumped on the first good opportunity I found. Otherwise I would have been getting a pink slip as soon as they found that replacement with no job to go to while their business wouldn't have skipped a beat. Someone in that case would have ended up being the loser and I would have done what I felt was necessary so it wouldn't be me. That's just the nature of business. Maybe that's the reason we feel differently about this situation.

Wow, can this be any more of a hypocritical? Watson has missed 23 3/4 games since he signed his contract. Mayfield played injured for 15 weeks in 2021 yet he was deemed unsatisfactory to take the team to a Super Bowl. With Watson though, he's a God and talk is if he had played the Browns would have won (nothing but a wild guess and pure speculation). Watson has only played 11 and 1/4 games of 35 since coming to the Browns. You talk about locker room strife, what the heck do think went on in that locker room when those players were be constantly barraged with talk about Watson's scum filled actions off the field?

Better team - prove it! Playing or not, the two years preceding Watson the Browns were 20-15 that included a playoff appearance through the second round with Baker on the team. The next 2-years with Watson on the team, the Browns are 18-17 including a 1 game playoff appearance.

In fact, the Browns in 2024 would need to be 12-5 during the regular season and 1-1 in the playoffs minimum to finally achieve a higher win percentage .574 during Watson's tenor with the Browns compared to Mayfield's win percentage when he was with the Browns during the Stefanski years (.571).

Now, Mayfield is gone, and that boat has sailed. The point is that when people try to point out the Browns are better than they were before, that's a false assumption because you are only as good as your actual record portraits. You have the option of thinking they are better, hoping they are better or praying they are better but as of today, the total records tell a different story. Over the last 4 years 2020-2023, the Browns have accumulated the worst record in the AFC North. The Browns are also the only team to not win an AFC North title not only the last 4-years but ever. A side note, there has been 33 HC changes since the 2020 season. Of the 10 teams that have not sought out another coach during that time period, Stefanski's Browns have the lowest win percentage of the 10. Overall, the Browns are 14th in win percentage over the last 4-years meaning there are 4 teams above them that have changed coaches since 2020. Of the 18 teams directly below the Browns in win percentage, the Cleveland Browns are the only team of 19 that has not changed HC's (14 - 32 ranked) since 2020.

You may be interested in which teams ranked above the Browns in win percentage who have also changed HC's since 2020. That list includes: (4-year rank is by win pct) 4th - Tampa Bay (2022), 10th - Miami (2022), 11th - Philadelphia (2021), and 13th - New Orleans (2022).

Yeah, there are two sides, and all your points are valid. I guess I started by saying "I'm in the middle" without actually saying I agree with most of your first post... I just went on to point out the other side of the coin and failed to state that my "middle" is easily being able to understand and agree with everything else as well.

And yeah, for most of us, there is a very delicate balance in gauging loyalty given vs loyalty received... and knowing the warning signs. Taking care of #1 is only selfish if you make it that way. Imagine being in a biz where the average career is like 3.5 years.

The only one who sounds butt-hurt right now is you.

Again, I have nothing against Baker. I'm rooting for him. I just think people make him out to be something he's not.

I don't follow the Eagles. They started the year on a tear and at some point during the season they started falling apart. The past couple games prior they've managed to lose to the Seahawk, Cardinals, and split with the Giants. Yikes.


So if your statement win is against a team that's recently been playing like that... I dunno.

If Baker plays well and/or wins vs the Lions, I will gladly eat crow. I'll be rooting for him to do well.

I just believe that people need to remember that football is the ultimate team sport. While people make fun of old sayings often times they apply quite well. I'll give you one such example....

It's hard to soar with Eagles when you work with a bunch of Turkeys.

j/c...

I'll say one thing. The pissing contests over what kind of season Baker had (is still having) are funny to read. If I told you the Browns QB had 4000yds at 65%, 28 and 10 this year... you'd be pretty damned excited (and probably still have a reason to be this Sunday)... until I told you I forgot the word "former". Then you would know you're from Cleveland lol.

Whining about his competition is silly, it's any given Sunday more than ever before. The same dude threw for 381 and 4 TD with a perfect 158.3 just five weeks ago against Green Bay... they're in the playoffs and just knocked off Dallas. But oh wait, their defense sucks. The Browns defense is great... they just got smoked by a rookie QB, with a rookie coach, on a team that snuck in at 10-7 on the final day of the season. Any. Given. Sunday.

This season he landed on the front porch of filling Tom Brady's shoes. Hell, one of our now-absent football gurus was beating the drum that the Bucks were purposely tanking the day they signed him -- and he meant it. Since then he's put up the numbers I posted, is about to start his 19th game (he's started 30 of 32 since he left), and has battled all year in a way that would make even Pat Shurmur proud. And oh yeah, don't think the offense isn't on Mayfield's back... the Bucs have seen an RB rush for 100 twice this season... 100 and 102, to be exact.

So yes, it wasn't perfect out of the gate. Baker still has those moments, it's not all glamour, and sometimes it can be ugly as hell. But of their first seven losses, five were to playoff teams. Since then Mayfield and the Bucs have won 6 of 7 including payback in a revenge playoff matchup for an early season loss to the 'September version' of the Eagles.

And no, I'm not saying Baker is a great QB. Not even close. Not saying that... just saying. No offense to anyone, but if you can't tip your cap to that, it's on you.

When I see supporters, no matter what team they support, being extremely negative, to put it mildly, against one of their ex players there’re often other tangible’s behind their dislike then just sporting reasons.

Most Houstons supporters that I see comment about Watson thinks he was a very good QB when he played for the Texans but don’t like his personality and what he has done in his private life and that’s from my perspective understandable.

I can understand those who don’t like a character like Mayfield. He’s has a special personality with his sometimes a bit cocky confidence and that he’s not afraid to show off. I personally like it and I have always like strong personalties who’s not afraid to show who they are.

A suspects some of you Americans probably never heard of a Swedish hockey player in the seventies named Juha Widing. LA Kings. He single handily challenged the whole Philadelphia Flyers A-team with Dave The Hammer Schultz & Co on a fight by tapping his hockey club in the air in front of their face and then drop his gloves in the middle of Philadelphia Forum. That guy has balls of steels. Extremely strong personality, mediocre player, loved by many and hated by more but God o God I would like to have that guy in my team, if not just for the pure entertainment. He was a typical player that you loved when he was with your team but you would probably hate him with passion when he represented an opponents team. I see similarities between him and Baker when he was playing in Oklahoma and the clip under this text. Totally no fear whatsoever of consequences. Maybe some of you haven’t forgot what he did and that play a part in those who disliking in him. It’s understandable because that was bold.





Going strictly by stats and results the Browns 2020 team was better than our 2023 team. Baker was in my opinion the catalyst, the front face and the leader of that team. Hate or love him but I can’t deny that with him we were more fun to watch. Those who dislike him do it for other reasons than what he contributed from his arrival to that win over the Steelers. After his injury he was a sitting duck because Berry and Stefanski had already made up their mind.and Right now the Bake and Shake show has moved on by winning more playoffs games and his old Brown team is still back where they where when he left.

Excellent posts friends.............

Oh please. Spare me the "sitting duck" b.s. He was the same rooster strutting around like he owned the place after the injury. He just forget there were bigger cocks in the fight. He found out in a hurry.

You're not really one of us. Sorry. You were stumbling through your sports life and found this team "by chance"... because you fell in love with Baker. The day he left started your hatefest. It gets tiring. Most of us have been changing the diaper of this petulant child for decades, you haven't even seen it pee the bed yet.

And the longest thread on the Houston fan board is the one that's been dissing Watson and the Browns since the day he left. Your 'perspective' must be pretty limited, you may not want to use it to belittle 'us'.


Sorry guys. I didn't mean to spark this crap.

Oh, God. Can we just delete my Baker post. I didn't really mean it, I don't know what I was thinking. I feel like that other Jimmy now.

You started it and now you're gonna have to fix all of this.

Good luck.

"Alright, listen guys, I've started a TicToc called "Baker Baker Touchdown Make You Long Time". It's in Bangkok, so we'll all have to relocate, but it's going to be so much more fun than this forum full of homers and haters!"





(There, now I'm sure I've offended everybody in less than five posts)

I love BKK awesome city. So you have my attention.

LMAO ! you prophet

Memphis is 100 %

You gotta fix it !