DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Fire Offensive Coaches

With this decimated roster and four starting QB's? Are you kidding me?


Did Stenanski use four starting QB's to acieve that record? How about no Chubb? The fourth and fifth OT's on the depth chart?

Stefanksi didn't spend the money. Stefanski didn't pick or sign the players. He worked with what he had after all of the injuries and your total lack of objectivity is clearly showing. If you want to get back on the "cap hell train" again at least don't take it out on someone who isn't responsible for it.

I had no idea. It's easy to pick on this as it's mostly a dumb rule. But I guess it does result in more POC getting some face time and learning the ropes of navigating "the ladder". It just sucks that it also results in people like Singletary running around from team to team with a handful of binders... looking like a doofus when it's clear nobody is going to hire him.

I think the Rooney Rule actually makes (slightly) more sense for certain positions that are pathways to becoming a head coach. OC and DC and QB Coach positions are usually boxes you have to check in order to be considered for HC position.

If getting more minorities into HC jobs (and not just token interviews) is the goal, then helping those people get the experience they need to land the ultimate job is what they should be doing.

j/c...

Agree 100. This actually makes more sense than it did originally. I mean, if you actually want to solve a problem rather than merely act like you care about it.

Damn. That may be the best parting statements I've ever read!

I'm assuming some context is involved and can't listen to the playback at the office. Maybe someone can shine some additional light to this OR he truly is exhausted and that may play a part in the future hire??

He basically said the part of coaching he enjoys the most is putting the game plan together and the preparation leading up to the game. When he's says the play calling is exhausting, I did not take is as though he is at his wits end and it's completely wearing him down.

Stefanski has never been married to play calling, he's said over the years if he thinks someone could do it better than himself, he would give up play calling duties.

My take on the coaching changes is that it is all about putting Watson in the best position to succeed. Watson has never looked smooth or like the 2020 version of himself in Stefanski's offense. It's looked clunky with occasional glimpses of success. Watson is here to stay and the Browns have to do everything they can to put him in the best position to succeed. There has to be a sense of urgency. 2024 is a big year for this Browns team.

In order to attract the very best OC candidates, Stefanski has to be willing to give up play calling duties.

My prediction is the Browns hire an OC running a more shotgun heavy offense that looks closer to a McVay, McDaniel, Steichen type level of offensive philosophy. I do not believe Stefanski has been as innovative at expanding off his base offensive philosophy as some of those guys. My money says Stefanski is not calling plays next year and the offense is going to look quite different that it has looked.

I can only imagine what was running through Haslam's head when he watched Bobby Slowick absolutely cook Jim Scwartz and the vaunted Browns defense.

With the money and draft picks invested, with so many jobs on the line dependent on watson's success in Cleveland, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I don't believe with all of that on the line they could do anything other than tailor everything around watson.

Thanks Milk, I'm trying to wrap my mind around that whole thing and put it into a flowchart. My first question is: were Berry and Haslam the first two names in the box and Stefanski came later? Was this "hey, this is the direction we think we should go" to Stefanski... or along with Stefanski. Next: Did Watson have a box? Not for nothing, but one time he wasn't included on the chart ended quite badly. That's mostly the 'inquiring mind' voice in my head asking what I think most fans would be asking.

I would suspect it's been a decision made by the three together. I would also guess Watson may have been informed that changes were possible for at least a short time now, maybe even a door open to his input. In that case, I think he would have also been told that the hire depends just as much on organizational impact as X's and O's, along with the fact that Stefanski hasn't decided on game day duties in advance of the hire, and very much would be dependent on prospects.

I hope everything stays on course and we are able to upgrade and 'transcend' without taking two steps back.

I'm just now seeing he used the term "exhausting" in an interview last year. I thought it was from an interview today when I shared this.

That's my mistake misreading the podcast title.

I agree with a lot of what you said.

I'd be quite surprised if this was Haslam/DePo/Berry (definitely not Berry) pounding their fists demanding changes be made or else. I think everyone involved understands the high stakes and Stefanski is self aware and not above being both open to internal criticism and changes that will benefit the organization on the whole. My guess is this has been discussed internally for some time.

If you did not win the Super Bowl (and even if you did) the questions that should be asked are, "What are we doing to get better as franchise? What areas can we improve? What changes need to be made to achieve the intended goal? etc.." Complacency is unlikely to win championships.

It not unreasonable for ownership or the FO to ask Stefanski if his offense truly puts Watson in the best position to succeed and if not, what changes should be make to make that happen.

I would think it was discussed with Watson, but not because Watson was vocal about changes needing to be made. Asking for his thoughts and input, but not asking him to handpick the replacements. For better or worse, it's highly likely the Browns are only going to go as far as Watson can take them.

Makes perfect sense. Personally, if I were to offer my best guess, the seed was planted before this season and dependent on how Watson and the offense progressed. When Watson was gone, and the whole thing was turned inside out, there's a very good chance other factors made "change" even more clear.

Maybe all these dudes weren't truly 'rowing in the same direction' when crazy got crazier and crazier. Maybe a couple of these coaches became whiners when the job got more difficult every week. Maybe Stefanski felt like he had to hold hands and micromanage much more than he should have... working with those who once thrived when everything was easy, but now needed to be coddled now that everything was hard.

Maybe, we're not looking for a play-caller at all and don't even need or want a big name that will carry a load of expectations (along with the obligatory freedom to create and change the structure that's already here). Maybe the next step for Stefanski is simply an up and coming offensive mind that will execute everything on the game-prep list each week to his standards.

I don't know, but if the next guy is calling plays, he's got some big shoes to fill. Stefanski is a great play-caller most of the time. And most of the time is about the arc everyone is working with, when you have NFL talent across the LOS doing the opposite of what you expected them to do all week -- you can be in for a long day no matter what your name is.

Well said.

THIS x 100… No way Watson was behind it. He can’t stay on the field, at least not that I’ve seen. Hell, I’m worried he’s made of glass now. I don’t know if he had injury issues prior or not. But two years into the DW era and we still have no clue what we really have in him. Could be the savior, could be a bum. You don’t build staffs and teams around that, IMO.

I’d say Ski saw some things this year that he thinks he can improve upon. I’m shocked about AVP and Mitchell. IMO, they were solid at worst. Now, I’m interested to see the new hires. I hope like hell this wasn’t to appease Jimmy for the playoff loss. And we may pay hell if Chubb struggles coming back, not to mention how he might feel about Mitchell and ABP being gone. I’ve seen a bunch of not great RB coaches in browns attire over the years, I can’t see who is better than Mitchell.

What I do hope is that this isn’t a complete revamp of our offense. I’m not a big fan of the RPO centric running QB style of play. I would much prefer trying to make a pocket passer out of DW and a play action passing game. At least until I know he’s not going to get thumped and be out again every four or five games.

And I hope I’m way off and DW studs out, but that’s yet to be seen.

Additionally, this transition should not shorten Ski’s leash, unless it was sold as being THE ISSUE we aren’t going to the SB. I can’t see that being the case, at least I hope not. However, anytime you add new pieces, it gives you new excuses and fodder for the end of the next non-championship season. And I can’t imagine Ski was on the hot seat at all, not at all. This had to be Ski’s doing. No idea why. I guess we’ll see.


EDIT: I wonder if Baker’s season had anything to do with this? That’s an intriguing thought. Are we seeing the guyts that clamored for DW going? Or did they say Baker couldn’t get it done? Lol, I could see Haslam having a cow over that.

Agree, Stefanski is an excellent play caller and schemer. Is he an excellent play caller for Watson, however? I think that's the $230M question being discussed in Berea.

Flacco and Brissett looked great in Stefanksi's offense. Under center, play action, back to the defense, bootlegs, etc... To me, that does not seem to mesh with what Watson does best. Put Watson in the gun and let him run it wide open.

Stefanski very well may end up retaining play calling, but my money says otherwise. He brought in Bill Musgrave this past offseason to help adapt his offense to Watson's skill set, but it still seemed clunky. The stakes are high, but I'm confident in the people running the show to get this right.

Watson's skill set and Stefanski's offense....

Hahaha! That was funny!

I think it's safe to say the guy isn't a bum. He has shown enough to erase that thought, but I agree he hasn't exactly lived up to the expectations the team had when they punched the ticket on the trade. Fan expectations don't count. They are usually inflated and unrealistic.

I think this move shows the team feels they need to and can get more out of Watson. I think with Flacco stepping in rather seamlessly while Watson looked to have reservations/limitations with the O showed the team they needed to make some changes that fit Watsons game.

I agree at this point what do we know. Can Watson win games with the Cleveland Browns? Yes, He is 8-4 in the games he has played. Can he win in the AFC North? Yes, He is 3-3 vs the AFC North. 2-0 vs the Ravens, 1-1 vs the Bengals and Joe Burrow, but 0-2 vs the Steelers. That must improve. Can't keep losing to those guys. Can he win games on the road vs the best teams in the NFL? Yes, He helped lead the Browns to a win on the road vs the Ravens with a come from behind 33-31 game. Can he stay healthy? Do not know the answer to that yet. Can he still be an elite top 5 QB in the NFL? Do not know that yet either. He has shown flashes of greatness but no consistence. If he can stay healthy and play a 17-game season, I think we will be able to answer that question, then. Consistency comes when you play on a regular basis. I think anyone that plays golf can relate to that.

I share the same feeling you mention if I read you correctly. This feels like the deal is cooked up already, though it has yet to play out. Stump loss was, is, may well be huge. Feels to me like at least part of this "shakeup" is lined up, and waiting to play out. My hunch. So who can replace this group as well? I see some irony in a pass-happy coach who turns to (as the play caller) the running game for relief and improvement. Hope some of this works.

I liked some of these assistant coaches also and hated to see them go. But what I did see this year is what can happen is what a difference a really good coordinator can do. If the Browns hire someone that can help the offense, make the same kind of strides in 2024 that the defense made in 2023 this team will be really hard to handle. They have to get the hire right, though. I think we have an organization in place now that can do that. I feel strongly that Andrew Berry is the right GM, Kevin Stefanski is the right head coach, Jim Schwartz was the right fit for defensive coordinator, and if they can get the right fit at offensive coordinator the sky is the limit next year. If you do the same thing in 2024 as you did in 2023 your will, probably get 2023 results.

Au contraire. You most certainly do. In fact you almost have to. I think you missed the overall context of my post. My comment was intended to mean that at this time I don't think he's in the position to demand such a thing. I don't think he's in the position to hand pick his coaches.

But this FO put all their eggs in the watson basket and if this flops a lot of their jobs and futures are on the line. They have to do everything in their power to make this thing work. With all of that money and draft capital given in exchange for watson they have to show a good return on that investment. They're on the business side of the NFL, not the fan side of it. And the Browns are a multi billion dollar corporation. In that scenario there's accountability for your decisions.


You don't spend that kind of investment on a QB to try and fit a square peg in a round hole. That would be coaching suicide.


Baker has nothing to do with any of this. Baker has left the building and if there was any major division about that it would have been dealt with long before now.

Turns out it was all over leaks.

I don't know that I trust that being the answer. We'll hear five or more stories, maybe even more as to the reasoning behind it and may never know the actual truth of the matter. Just because there are some reporting that, often times once one person reports it others simply piggy back off of that. I mean I think you have to stop and think about that for a minute. What kind of behind the scenes rumors did you see reported this season?

People have actually been discussing how quiet things have been and you haven't heard about any behind the scene drama this year. So claiming it was due to leaks seems like a total contradiction to what we have all been witnessing ourselves.

What is for certain is that there will definitely be an official leak at some point so that there can be stories written to highlight why moving on was the right choice and how the new people are viewed as the solution.
It's literally the playbook for a coaching change and we've seen it a hundred times by now.

I'll just say that it being about Watson is what makes the most sense, though, because there is zero chance it can be about performance, IMO. I don't know what any of those coaches could have done above what they did with what they had. Heck, AVP doesn't even get to run his own offense or call his own plays, so that one is extra confusing when attempting to think of how it could be performance related.

Oh we know that the top brass will leak something to convey their story. I'm just not buying that leaks were the reason these people were fired at this point in time.

I mean, it could be, but I can't even think of anything that has come out of Berea that could have been a leak. The storylines other than how the team has played have literally been non-existent.... except for things about injuries, and I don't recall any of that information coming from anywhere other than Stefanski.

Like, literally, the only thing I can think of is the snafu over Watson's injury not being an issue, then suddenly, magically, being an issue that sidelined him.

It appears that the Browns will have options at QB if the decide to take advantages of them...



Cleveland Browns QB Joe Flacco Wants to Stay With Organization;
‘I love the Building, the People, Everything About It’ – 2023-24 Postseason

By Alec Musa, January 19, 2024
link

...and I can hear the crowd chanting "Flacco....Flacco" as soon as DW throws his first interception.

Yeah, it's highly unlikely we ever see Flacco wearing a Browns jersey again.

I’d be happy if they signed him to back up money for a couple years. DW is giving me those swing and miss vibes. Flacco would be the best backup, but not a great prospect for full time starter… However, he did do enough this year to earn that chance somewhere.

I just try to look at every decision a multi billion dollar corporation makes from that angle. As business decisions pure and simple. There are a lot of QB's that would make good quality backups. Much like yourself I have no idea why this FO didn't have one on the roster this past season and hope they learned their lesson from that obvious blunder. The huge amount of injuries among starting QB's across the entire NFL this season should have taught more than a few teams that lesson.

But j is 100% correct that Flacco, while he collapsed in his last game, played well enough that he led this team to the playoffs. And Browns fans aren't going to forget that. With Flacco on the roster, any and every time watson falters, there will be a cry from the crowd for Flacco. It would be a total mess and a PR nightmare for this FO. That being said, from a business standpoint that simply wouldn't make any sense when there will actually be more options available with which to choose from to fill that roll.

I'd love to have Flacco back with us as well, BUT, as someone else pointed out, us Browns fans are fickle and love the backup QB, as soon as DW throws his picks, or fumbles, the boo-birds will be out and chanting for Flacco. DW doesn't seem to have the mental fortitude to block out the noise, and will sulk. Not to mention that they have different styles of play, wouldn't we need almost 2 separate playbooks?

j/c

We would be absolute fools to not re-sign Flacco...my goodness. He's the perfect backup QB...good for the team if he plays...good for DW and DTR. We were able to run the offense just fine with his different skillsets.

If DW can't handle Flacco being there or fan chants when he sucks...then he'll never be the guy anyway.

Flacco actually wants to be here and Browns fans don't want him here for all the wrong reasons...sounds familiar.

It isn't just Watson. The team doesn't really get off on that.

I have said it before as others have. You don't want the hint of a QB controversy. It's why there isn't a chance we hire Bernie Kosar as back-up QB. Nevermind the guy can't play anymore, you would still have idiots chanting for him to come in to the game.

Why? Was it the beard?

Most of the position spots are stepping stone positions. Maybe some coaches who ascended to higher positions settle back in to a position coach position, like Callahan, but if you have pretty much just done that your whole career, maybe it is time to move on with someone younger. Part of Stefnski's job is to develop his coaching staff and see guys work up the ranks to possibly take on larger roles with this team.

Stump was a nice guy and probably good at what he did, but he was never going to be viewed as part of the Stefanski coaching tree. He was a career RB coach in the NFL. He was a head coach for 2 different college teams with a combined 22-62 record.

What is it about him we are going to miss??

I’m not worried about DWs fumbles or int as a trigger, but very worried we can’t keep him on the field healthy. I worry him and DTR are made of glass. At least until I see either play a full or most of a season.

Van pelts offense requires a qb to read the defense pre snap and during the play. Obviously this is not watsons strength. Which is why he usually ranks in the bottom ten of ball release. He is a shotgun one read qb . His instinct is to run with the ball.

When did this become van pelts offense?
All this tie, I thought it was stefanski's offense