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Originally Posted by bugs
For the sake of this discussion, let's assume Jackson and Burrow finish the next two or three years on the injured list while Watson equals the production Burrow and Jackson experienced.

Since both Jackson and Burrow don't have a guaranteed contract, will either be released out of their contract? Is the difference of $20 million nonguaranteed creating relief for these teams?

Technically, yes, the Bengals and Ravens can get out from under their contracts. But, will they?

Ravens could have easily walked away from Jackson instead of signing him to a 3/4 guaranteed contract. If I am not mistaken, it was near what Cleveland offered Watson. In the end, Ravens are just as committed as the Browns. If you ask me, I think the Ravens took an even bigger risk thinking Jackson could be more than just a running QB.

All a guaranteed contract does is make the owner pay upfront. A majority of the owners do not have that much-liquidated cash. Guaranteeing contracts allows Haslam an advantage to sign high-quality players over other teams. Is it risky? Yes. Business is risky. It is no more risky than a company taking out a loan to boost a potential profit.

You, me and probably the whole Browns nation want success when he’s playing with us. What’s happened in the past is history and didn’t affect us. We also don’t want to pay, your words, “up front” when the probability of failure is relative high. Every experienced and successful investor knows that risk elimination is one of the most important parts to future success. Better with one bird in your hand than 10 birds in the forrest, is the golden rule to avoid costly failures.

If Watson only had played 1 trouble free season with the Houston, without personal problems and bad media coverage then this contract could make more sense, but definitely not now.
When an organization invest $230M without any safety net then is a huge gamble. If you buy a real estate, car, stocks, bonds then you have a resale value. In this case, so far, we don’t even see him on the field enough to justify these numbers.

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You have to explain to me how Cincy and Baltimore have less risk over Cleveland?

What if any of these QBs suffer a career-ending injury the day after they sign a contract?

How different is it from buying stocks on margin?

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You claim it is Andrew Berry is behind all of these moves. Total conjecture with no evidence with which to substantiate it. Then you once again refuse to give a direct answer to the question. Luckily your responses have become quite predictable in that department so I wasn't the least bit surprised.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by bugs
You have to explain to me how Cincy and Baltimore have less risk over Cleveland?

What if any of these QBs suffer a career-ending injury the day after they sign a contract?

How different is it from buying stocks on margin?

You’re trying to compare a hypothetical scenario with our reality. The Browns has paid “up front”, your word, for a player who has attended 12 games in 2 seasons.
Burrow has 1 SB appearance with Cincy and Jackson a division title. We have nothing with Watson except the memories of a couple of good game, maybe 1,5 was an elite level performance who can justify 2% of his salary.

When you buy something with a resale value you can sell it when you think the ROI doesn’t match your expectations. At least you get something back. With a guaranteed contract there isn’t such option. It doesn’t matter if the player succeed or even is doing his best on the field, we still have to pay him 230M. Isn’t this self explanatory?

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Originally Posted by bugs
You have to explain to me how Cincy and Baltimore have less risk over Cleveland?

What if any of these QBs suffer a career-ending injury the day after they sign a contract?

How different is it from buying stocks on margin?

There is a huge difference:

Burrows only has guaranteed salary in 2024 and 2025 left on his contract. The next 4 years, 2026, 2027, 2028, and 2029 the Bengals have an out. The highest cap charge year for Burrows is currently his final year 2029 at 57.539M.

Jackson only has a guaranteed salary in 2024 left on his contract. The Ravens absorbed an 80M cash payout in 2023. The next 3 years, 2025, 2026, and 2027 have an out for the Ravens. The highest cap charge for Jackson is currently his final 2 years at 74.650M. Let's not forget that Jackson has gotten his team to the AFC Championship game in year 1 of the contract too.

Watson contract is fully guaranteed for all 5 years of his contract. The Browns have paid 92M in cash for his services the first 2 years. Unfortunately, due to restructures, the Browns have only had $28,452,500 applied to the cap those first 2 years. The next 3 years, 2024, 2025, 2026 the Browns are still on the hook for the guarantees and currently have cap charges of 63.977M per season providing Berry doesn't restructure him again.

So, how much dead money would it cost each team today, by year, to terminate the contract of all 3 players:

Terminate in 2024
Burrows - 132.964M
Jackson - 112.850M
Watson - 200.915M

Terminate in 2025
Burrows - 103.250M
Jackson - 80.450M
Watson - 136.938M

Terminate in 2026
Burrows - 57.0M
Jackson - 57.8M
Watson - 72.961M


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Hypothetical question. I repeat Hypothetical.
Could the Browns put Watson on the trade block and ask for 3 1st picks
In return ?
Probably not. I don't think the Browns could get a 2nd
Pick for Watson now. To say the Browns overpaid for DW is
A understatement

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If only they would have had a crystal ball.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Snap shot now. It does not look good.

We all want more. However, the trade was made because at the time it gave the team a better chance to win a Super Bowl than what was in place.

In addition although the deal was for five years when you make a trade like that, for a 27 year old, you are thinking ten years. If he is gone after five. It probably didn't work.

I do not know what the future holds for DW in Cleveland. What I will say is this. If he wins a Super Bowl in Cleveland. IMO the deal worked.

He may be gone as a free agent at the end of five. Or, he might be signed to an extension.

He needs to play. We really do not know what he will do. He has to stay on the field. I think he can play at a high level. The doubt creeping in is; can he stay on the field?

Two injuries to his throwing arm. Rotator cuff and then this shoulder injury. I do not doubt his competitive nature. His commitment to being great. His desire to win here in Cleveland. He has to play.

If he plays a full season many questions will be answered.




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jc...

If ever there was a time when the Browns draft room needed to improve upon their performance, it is now, during these years without a #1 pick.

Without the pressure of a first round pick, it should give the Browns draft team more time to judge the talent that will be available to the Browns in the later rounds.


This would be a good time for the Browns to locate some of the hidden talent that is bound to be drafted by someone...

...why not the Browns..?

...why not in the 2024 draft..?




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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
If only they would have had a crystal ball.

That’s probably the best question we and the Browns FO can ask ourselves regarding this trade and the guaranteed 230M contract.

Was there enough data and evidence to make a proper due diligence before the trade? Yes it was.

On one hand it was Watson’s good stats with the Texans 2018 and 2019 but also their 4-12 record in 2020. He didn’t play in 2021 and was in a conflict with his organization so in his last two seasons, before we traded for him, it was a bunch of warning signals for those who care about the overall picture and not just cherry picking the best stats from his two best years.

It was also huge red flags over his personal life and what kind of character that was behind what we saw on the field. Any normal business company had hesitate with so much questionable information when we talk about an absurd $230 mil contract. So, yes, we had a crystal ball but our FO, owners and maybe a few supporters chose to ignore the negative parts and only focus on those things that looked favorable to the deal. I can understand the fans but when we talk about a professional GM, graduated in a prestigious University, then it’s harder to defend his decision to stand behind the totality of the whole deal.

Any sorts of risk calculation done by professional business analytics would have set a limit of
a) maximum guaranteed salary
b) the length of the contract

and that a escape clause must be installed before any signing. If those numbers and conditions wasn’t met then we should just walk away because the risk will become too high and the deal didn’t make financial sense.

Just look at it.

$ 230M and multiple 1st RD picks

vs.

A player who hadn’t play regularly in 2 seasons, in his last season playing regular football he had a 4-12 record. In conflict with his organization. Sued by 20+ women and accused by another 40 more who had been in contact with him.

Ask yourself what all these draft picks and 46M per season could have done if Berry had been as good with these options as he had with our recent FA signings.

Yeah! I will say that the crystal ball could have helped us if we only had used it properly.

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Floquinho, just so I understand what you're saying. Cincy and Baltimore have less risk because the QB they signed has better historical statistical data, and this data will carry forward the remainder of the contract. Watson's statistics will also remain constant for the remainder of his contract, so his risk is much higher. To me, it seems the contracts are what they are regardless of the stats. Yes, Haslam is required to pay more, but the overall amounts are the same. Less guaranteed does not favor one over the other. In two or three years, all three contracts will most likely look better than the going rate.

Steve0255, you are saying Cincy and Baltimore have less dead money with their QB contracts which makes it better than Cleveland, but their QBs are statistically better. Why would they terminate the contract to avoid paying the nonguaranteed amount?

You both assume everything is constant. When in actuality, all three teams are gambling about the same amount. On paper, Haslam is out more money, but do you think the other two owners will simply avoid paying the full contract amount and let their QB hit free agency? Do you think all three teams won't restructure the contracts moving forward? With the salary cap increasing every year and QB salaries increasing, do you think Cincy and Baltimore won't have to renegotiate contracts? What percentage of Jackson's and Burrow's yearly contract amount weighs against the yearly salary team cap amount compared to Watson's?

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And yet he says:
Originally Posted by Floquinho
You’re trying to compare a hypothetical scenario with our reality.

If anyone introduces variables that don't include doom and gloom for the Browns.


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I don't get hypothetical events.

DW needs to play for a full season before we even know what kind of quarterback he is in Cleveland.

The deal has been made. I don't care about ROI.

He may completely fail and be gone. He also could lead the Browns to a Super Bowl victory.

Both outcomes do not mean a thing today.

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Originally Posted by FATE
And yet he says:
Originally Posted by Floquinho
You’re trying to compare a hypothetical scenario with our reality.

If anyone introduces variables that don't include doom and gloom for the Browns.

Hypothetically Floquinho is assuming past performance reflects toward the future. The odds are favorable, but actually, it's hypothetically speaking!

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Originally Posted by bugs
Originally Posted by FATE
And yet he says:
Originally Posted by Floquinho
You’re trying to compare a hypothetical scenario with our reality.

If anyone introduces variables that don't include doom and gloom for the Browns.

Hypothetically Floquinho is assuming past performance reflects toward the future. The odds are favorable, but actually, it's hypothetically speaking!

It's an exercise in futility. We would never be having this conversation if we all knew Watson couldn't be great again. We would be saying "Our QB sucks, we need a new QB."

Two wasted seasons... one because of the suspension, another because of injury. Flo wants to use some advanced math, blah, blah, blah per game b.s. that has absolutely no bearing on whether this will be judged a success or failure.

If we don't win a championship with Watson -- failure.
If we do -- success.

And at that point nobody really cares about a single stat line. His stats could look like Tyrod Taylor and nobody would care. We'd say it wasn't the best investment in the world -- but we wouldn't care.


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Fate, as it stands today they are correct in what they are saying.

But, moving forward, Haslam has paid more salary than the salary cap. Later he will only need to worry about the salary cap number. Whereas, Cincy and Baltimore are still on the hook to pay the salary. This is where the rubber meets the road. Who is more likely to re-sign their star players for less? Both Baltimore and Cincy will have to pay higher salaries for diminishing talent to fulfill the contracts.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You claim it is Andrew Berry is behind all of these moves. Total conjecture with no evidence with which to substantiate it. Then you once again refuse to give a direct answer to the question. Luckily your responses have become quite predictable in that department so I wasn't the least bit surprised.

Regarding Andrew Berry. Absolutely not!
One word is enough. Jimmy!

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Originally Posted by bugs
Floquinho, just so I understand what you're saying. Cincy and Baltimore have less risk because the QB they signed has better historical statistical data, and this data will carry forward the remainder of the contract. Watson's statistics will also remain constant for the remainder of his contract, so his risk is much higher. To me, it seems the contracts are what they are regardless of the stats. Yes, Haslam is required to pay more, but the overall amounts are the same. Less guaranteed does not favor one over the other. In two or three years, all three contracts will most likely look better than the going rate.

Steve0255, you are saying Cincy and Baltimore have less dead money with their QB contracts which makes it better than Cleveland, but their QBs are statistically better. Why would they terminate the contract to avoid paying the nonguaranteed amount?

You both assume everything is constant. When in actuality, all three teams are gambling about the same amount. On paper, Haslam is out more money, but do you think the other two owners will simply avoid paying the full contract amount and let their QB hit free agency? Do you think all three teams won't restructure the contracts moving forward? With the salary cap increasing every year and QB salaries increasing, do you think Cincy and Baltimore won't have to renegotiate contracts? What percentage of Jackson's and Burrow's yearly contract amount weighs against the yearly salary team cap amount compared to Watson's?

Both Burrow and Jackson was draft picks who started their first seasons with a less expensive contract. They have already proved their worth and delivered good results. So giving these two a expensive contracts was a combination of reward and continuity from past success.

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Originally Posted by mac
jc...

If ever there was a time when the Browns draft room needed to improve upon their performance, it is now, during these years without a #1 pick.

Without the pressure of a first round pick, it should give the Browns draft team more time to judge the talent that will be available to the Browns in the later rounds.


This would be a good time for the Browns to locate some of the hidden talent that is bound to be drafted by someone...

...why not the Browns..?

...why not in the 2024 draft..?

Why not? Maybe we will?

We have a bunch of cherry pickers in here. You could cherry pick nearly every pick on every team and find examples of players teams could/should have drafted. It serves no purpose because teams don't have crystal balls that tell the future.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
If only they would have had a crystal ball.

I would say...if only they knew how to evaluate the QB position.

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Berry , Haslam and Depodesta will never admit it
To the public but I bet behind closed doors all
3 are regretting the Watson trade. I think they
Got so intoxicated with his stats in Houston.
But the truth is Watson never took the Texans anywhere.
Baker Mayfield accomplished more in the same
Timeframe as a Brown than Watson has.
I'm sure most Texans fans were happy to see Watson go.

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Can't really argue with most of that.

Although the Baker "accomplishments" don't really have any bearing if they were convinced he couldn't take them to the next level. Nevermind the rumors of him being disruptive and infantile.


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Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I wasn’t that enamored with the DW trade and up until now it hasn’t worked out but we still have 3 more years. I didn’t think Baker was the answer and felt we needed an upgrade at QB. I still feel DW is more talented than Baker and we have a better chance of winning with him. Unfortunately he hasn’t been able to stay on the field. Again we have 3 more years. That’s when the trade can be fully evaluated.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I wasn’t that enamored with the DW trade and up until now it hasn’t worked out but we still have 3 more years. I didn’t think Baker was the answer and felt we needed an upgrade at QB. I still feel DW is more talented than Baker and we have a better chance of winning with him. Unfortunately he hasn’t been able to stay on the field. Again we have 3 more years. That’s when the trade can be fully evaluated.

Totally agree from a result oriented standpoint. But if we factor in his salary and all the lost draft picks is when it gets complicated.

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That’s true. I like to bring up the fact we haven’t drafted well in the first round since we came back in “99. We only got 3-4 players in the first that amounted to anything and 3 of those years we had 2 picks. However, that doesn’t mean we wouldn’t have hit on one or all 3 of those picks we sent to Houston. It does get somewhat complicated I agree. We are at the crossroads with the DW trade IMO. If he works out in the next 3 years great 👍. If he doesn’t we may need to draft a QB in the first in the next couple of years. That could really set us back especially with our history of first round QB picks. DW has a lot of pressure on him to perform not to mention our coaches and FO. That is the reason for our coaching changes on O. There is a lot at stake here.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
If he plays a full season many questions will be answered.

I think it will take more than that. He's on a five year deal. One very good year out of three when next season is completed won't tell the story. No more than the first two years have. I haven't labeled him a failure here over how the first two seasons have played out and I won't consider him a success just because season three turns out to be good. In baseball a .333 batting average is pretty damned good. This isn't baseball. The body of evidence will decide at the point we can weigh the total investment against the total return on that investments and opinions may vary at that point in time.


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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
If only they would have had a crystal ball.

I would say...if only they knew how to evaluate the QB position.

The jury is still far from being out on that. At this point after two years of a five year contract making predictions is premature. Speaking of crystal balls.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
That’s true. I like to bring up the fact we haven’t drafted well in the first round since we came back in “99. We only got 3-4 players in the first that amounted to anything and 3 of those years we had 2 picks. However, that doesn’t mean we wouldn’t have hit on one or all 3 of those picks we sent to Houston. It does get somewhat complicated I agree. We are at the crossroads with the DW trade IMO. If he works out in the next 3 years great 👍. If he doesn’t we may need to draft a QB in the first in the next couple of years. That could really set us back especially with our history of first round QB picks. DW has a lot of pressure on him to perform not to mention our coaches and FO. That is the reason for our coaching changes on O. There is a lot at stake here.

When it comes to Andrew Berry he has done a lot of good things, especially our FA signings. He also seems to understand how to manage the financial aspect of being a GM. In general I agree with his and the organization’s decision to move on from Baker but her is where his shortcomings is becoming evident. He’s too much of a politician when he talks and less authentic, direct and honest. That works short term but not in the long run. People aren’t stupid.

What he should have done with Baker was to be honest and tell him that the organization has decided to move on (from Baker) but want they also want to be respectful and invite him and his agent to find a solution how to part ways without harming either part. The way that the Browns handled Mayfield is probably one of the reasons why we had to overpay to get a NEW franchise QB.

His other big mistake was how he handled the communication around Watson. As soon as he sounded like a nervous politician most neutrals stopped believing in his explanations. We all know when someone is lying and just spout nonsense. In a situation like that no explanations will help and sometimes saying less, almost nothing, is a better option then trying to persuade your listeners. That’s why the national media was burying the Browns about being a dysfunctional organization.

After two full seasons with Watson the organization still hasn’t something to show that can defend this trade except high hopes for the future. Trying to deny that or painting a colorful picture that isn’t true just creates more misdirected expectations and that is where we are at the moment. Just as you point out Homewood Dog the stakes are high and there’s a lot of pressure on both the FO, Stefanski and our recently injured $230m QB.

From my POV this could have been handled differently if Berry had lowered the expectations, admitting that so far this trade (Watson) has been a disappointment because of the suspension and a season ending injury. Nobody is going to put blame on the organization, the GM and our HC if we admit that the circumstances hasn’t been totally optimal. There’s no direct criticism against our franchise QB either when Berry only explaining his and the organizations disappointment.

Sometimes it’s a good thing to be brutal honest and use that honesty to your own favor. Without blaming somebody he lower the expectations and take the pressure off the HC and his coaches. Nobody is blaming Watson either for the injury so it’s a win and win statement. If Berry really want to get everyone onboard he first tell Watson about what he’s going to say in his end of the season presser so their will be no surprise and viewed as a blame game.

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Originally Posted by Floquinho
From my POV this could have been handled differently if Berry had lowered the expectations, admitting that so far this trade (Watson) has been a disappointment because of the suspension and a season ending injury. Nobody is going to put blame on the organization, the GM and our HC if we admit that the circumstances hasn’t been totally optimal. There’s no direct criticism against our franchise QB either when Berry only explaining his and the organizations disappointment.

Sometimes it’s a good thing to be brutal honest and use that honesty to your own favor. Without blaming somebody he lower the expectations and take the pressure off the HC and his coaches. Nobody is blaming Watson either for the injury so it’s a win and win statement. If Berry really want to get everyone onboard he first tell Watson about what he’s going to say in his end of the season presser so their will be no surprise and viewed as a blame game.

I honestly (and to be fair, I've heard others say things like this before), have no idea what would be gained by this.

Do you actually believe this would lower people's' expectations?


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I agree Fate. Besides, who doesn't know the trade has been a disappointment thus far. I'm going to take the stance that the first 2 years are behind us and we're starting the 2024 season with a clean slate on DW and we'll go from there. Hopefully the results will be different.

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Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by Floquinho
From my POV this could have been handled differently if Berry had lowered the expectations, admitting that so far this trade (Watson) has been a disappointment because of the suspension and a season ending injury. Nobody is going to put blame on the organization, the GM and our HC if we admit that the circumstances hasn’t been totally optimal. There’s no direct criticism against our franchise QB either when Berry only explaining his and the organizations disappointment.

Sometimes it’s a good thing to be brutal honest and use that honesty to your own favor. Without blaming somebody he lower the expectations and take the pressure off the HC and his coaches. Nobody is blaming Watson either for the injury so it’s a win and win statement. If Berry really want to get everyone onboard he first tell Watson about what he’s going to say in his end of the season presser so their will be no surprise and viewed as a blame game.

I honestly (and to be fair, I've heard others say things like this before), have no idea what would be gained by this.

Do you actually believe this would lower people's' expectations?

Agreed, nothing is gained at all.

Nobody is going to put blame on the org, GM, and HC? No matter what is said, somewhere between 1-100% of the media and public will put blame on someone.

Some need to understand, the FO/staff do not owe us anything regarding team information. They don't owe us an apology, they don't owe us any personal workings of any transaction. Would I love to know every little detail of everything? Sure. HOWEVER, that isn't a smart way to run a team/business. It really doesn't benefit the organization in any shape or form. If anything, when people go off script there is a bigger chance to cause more damage to the team.


If Berry main statement in an interview was: the sky is blue. Do you understand how many ways that would be spun? Some would claim he's smart and done his research. Some would claim he has no clue what he is doing b/c he didn't take into account clouds or fog and what about when the sun sets!

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General question:

Why does it matter what the media thinks? If it is good or bad...why does it matter?

What was a bulk of the media's view of the Browns for at least 3/4ths of this season? Basically, negative and probably amped up more when Chubb and others went down. What effect did that have on the fans or more important the team? In my view, it didn't affect anything. The team still played their butts off and had an excellent season.

At the very least, it just showed a good portion of the media has no clue and just will rehash whatever someone else puts out.

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Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by Floquinho
From my POV this could have been handled differently if Berry had lowered the expectations, admitting that so far this trade (Watson) has been a disappointment because of the suspension and a season ending injury. Nobody is going to put blame on the organization, the GM and our HC if we admit that the circumstances hasn’t been totally optimal. There’s no direct criticism against our franchise QB either when Berry only explaining his and the organizations disappointment.

Sometimes it’s a good thing to be brutal honest and use that honesty to your own favor. Without blaming somebody he lower the expectations and take the pressure off the HC and his coaches. Nobody is blaming Watson either for the injury so it’s a win and win statement. If Berry really want to get everyone onboard he first tell Watson about what he’s going to say in his end of the season presser so their will be no surprise and viewed as a blame game.

I honestly (and to be fair, I've heard others say things like this before), have no idea what would be gained by this.

Do you actually believe this would lower people's' expectations?

Could not agree more. This would be a PR disaster. Not to mention how the obvious perception is that it's a meek CYA position and would be throwing DW under the bus. His agent would be on the phone immediately with the Browns FO and ownership.

This would be part 2.0 of....


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
If only they would have had a crystal ball.

I would say...if only they knew how to evaluate the QB position.

The jury is still far from being out on that. At this point after two years of a five year contract making predictions is premature. Speaking of crystal balls.

You were the guy speaking about crystal balls...not me. We have a demonstrated track record of fumbling the QB position and we have more than (1) QB on trial...and all those/that without any crystal balls...

We decided we couldn't make it work with a QB who clearly made it work elsewhere and for a fraction of the cost / draft capital. A guy now with more playoff wins than the guy we went after;

We signed a quarter billion dollar guaranteed deal with a guy who was sure to get suspended for sexual misconduct...and THAT after sitting himself out the prior year because he didn't get to pick his HC;

We decided that we couldn't afford Jacoby for this year...on a team that had/has spent money as if there were no limits;

We decided that Josh Dobbs was a viable backup...even though he never was...then traded him because...;

We concluded that DTR was ready to be a viable backup on a team with Super Bowl aspirations;

Then we picked up PJ who might be the worst QB in the entire league and grabbed Driskell at the last minute and put HIM ahead of PJ...and all that while...;

We skipped over Joe Flacco who was there all along and was better than the (3) backup QBs we first went with.

Now we are gong to 'tailor the offense' to meet DW4s 'style'. Wait...what? That was the talk the entire off-season. Did we not already know what system to run that best suits him? Apparently not.

The title of this thread is "The bigger picture". The only position that rivals our incompetency at QB is the guys who the QB has to throw to @ WR.

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Originally Posted by bugs
Fate, as it stands today they are correct in what they are saying.

But, moving forward, Haslam has paid more salary than the salary cap. Later he will only need to worry about the salary cap number. Whereas, Cincy and Baltimore are still on the hook to pay the salary. This is where the rubber meets the road. Who is more likely to re-sign their star players for less? Both Baltimore and Cincy will have to pay higher salaries for diminishing talent to fulfill the contracts.

Your thought process on this is incorrect. Watson's contract is 230M over 5 years. The Browns did not include a signing bonus within that deal so the cost cash wise is 46M per year. Out of pocket, the Browns pay 46M every year. How that payment is broken down by year constitutes the cap charge. Depending on the vesting of the player, the team can defer some of that yearly salary charge on paper by showing the salary payment of the minimum salary for a player that's vested (changes each year) and move the balance to a prorated bonus that can be spread across 5 years. In year 1, the Browns paid Watson 46M for the 1st year of his contract but for cap purposes, they showed Watson's salary as 1.035M - the league minimum - and moved the balance of 46.965M to a prorated bonus divided by 5 seasons for an annual charge of $8,993,000 to the cap. Watson's first year cap charge was then only $10,028,000 even though they actually paid him 46M.

In year 2 (last season), the Browns again paid Watson 46M cash as per his contract. Cap wise though, the Browns were scheduled to be charged the 46M plus the 1/5 prorated bonus of $8,993,000 for a total cap charge of $54,993,000. The Browns were over the cap, so Berry chose to defer Watson's year 2 salary to free up cap money to sign other players. Last year's minimum salary for a vested player was 1.080M leaving 44.92M to defer over the next 5 years or $8,984,000 per season. So even though the Browns actually paid 46M in cash to Watson, the cap charge for last year was $1.080M in salary, $8,993,000 for the year one deferment and $8,984,000 for the year 2 deferment for a total cap charge of $19,057,000. The other point to emphasize is due to using the 5-years with Watson only having 4 years left on the contract, a void year is added basically meaning the Browns would still have to account for $8,993,000 in cap charges in 2027 whether Watson is on the team or not.

2024 will be year 3 of Watson's deal. He will be paid 46M in cash as per the guaranteed contract. For cap purposes though, currently, the Browns will be charged 46M in salary, $8,993,000 for the year 1 deferment and $8,984,000 for year 2 for a total cap charge of $63,977,000. These deferments along with at least 8 other players being handled the same way is why the Browns are projected to be $19,052,046 over the 2024 salary cap as we speak. On March 13, 2024: Top 51 begins. All clubs must be under the 2024 salary cap prior to 3 p.m. (CT). March 13, 2024: The 2024 league year and free agency period begin at 3 p.m. (CT). All 2023 player contracts expire at this time and the trading period for 2024 begins.

Note: Money earmarked by the club to prorated bonus cannot be changed or renegotiated. Once it is applied, it becomes due that season. So currently, the Browns must show $17,997,000 in prorated bonus charges for Watson in 2024, 2025, and 2026 and $8,984,000 in 2027 in addition to his salary.

As it stands now, to answer your question. What percentage of the team cap does each player account for:
Jackson, 2024 = 13.3%, 2025 = 16.8%, 2026 = 26.3%, $14,250,000 in guaranteed money left to be paid
Burrows, 2024 = 11.8%, 2025 = 17.8%, 2026 = 17.0%, $35,964,000 in guaranteed money left to be paid
Watson, 2024 = 23.4%, 2025 = 24.6%, 2026 = 22.5%, $138,000,000 in guaranteed money left to be paid


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I can't read all that.

What's the bottom line? We screwed?


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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You still didn't explain how you can determine the success or lack of success of the watson deal after two years of a five year contract.

Instead you just went on some silly rant that had nothing to do with that lol


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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After watching the video of the press conference I still believe that as Browns fans we’re in good shape with Jimmy and Dee Haslam as owners. He wants to bring a Super Bowl championship to Cleveland and he’s showing that with his willingness to spend and letting his football people run things. I naturally hope he’s successful.

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Originally Posted by FATE
I can't read all that.

What's the bottom line? We screwed?


I think the point being made is Cleveland is paying more guaranteed money which is true. The point that is not made is what Baltimore and Cincinnati do with the nonguaranteed money. They simply waive their QB to avoid paying, or they extend paying money still owed along with additional money. To me, it's a pay-me-now-pay-me-later scenario.

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Having non guaranteed money gives you options when things go badly. Rather than risk having an albatross hanging around your neck. There are reasons why NFL teams like to guarantee less money when they can on player contracts.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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