I believe we need to be better defensively to win a Super Bowl. The Texans convinced me because they scored 24 points in the first half against our strength.
When you look at the difference in the numbers between away and home. Our defense played poorly on the road.
Wills may be a starter but has he performed to the level of his draft selection or salary? I do not think so.
IMO Jones is already a better player. You can agree or not.
If we can use his money or value to upgrade at DT or middle linebacker. IMO it improves the team overall.
That is my math. If you think Wills is a great LT then fine. I do not.
Like I said I would rather trade him now and get something. Than extend him or let him walk in free agency next year.
So first you claim that Willis isn't easrning his pay and then say we should trade him? Maybe you should explain in "your plan" what other team is going to trade for him so they can overpay him? Try reading this one more time. Conklin has proven he can't stay healthy. It been an ongoing trend not some one off. Nobody said Willis is a "great LT" so I see you're now resorting to just making BS up.
Somehow you think a team is going to pay him over 14 million when he is only under contract for one season when you claim that's too much to be paying him. Your math seems to be a little fuzzy.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Try reading this. Past injury does not predict future injury. If that was not the case then every rehab and return would be a waste of time. Have players recovered from injury and returned to play?
I am not resorting to making anything up. I asked. Do you think Wills is a great LT? Nothing made up.
Everything is not an argument Pit no matter how hard you try to make it so.
In My Opinion. Wills has under performed. He is a young guy who has started and was a first round draft pick. He has value. How much? That will be determined.
Basically Conklin cannot be traded. He has another year on his contract. Play him for that year.
Jones is ready to start. I believe he is the future at LT.
Wills can be traded now because he becomes a free agent in a year. I do not want to sign him.
So, IMO it is better to trade him now than get nothing next year.
If that is fuzzy to you; I am sorry for not being able to make myself clear.
Yes let's just ignore what has become a trend and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ignoring obvious patterns has been the downfall of many. Conklin has exhibited an obvious pattern of not being able to remain healthy. That's not some mythical story which has been invented.
I'm the one who said let's leave it at we just disagree. Don't blame me because you can't figure out Conklin can't be counted on and that you think the answer is to trade away one of the Browns starting OT's.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Are you aware that the 2023 roster and the 2024 will be different?
Here we are in February with free agency and the draft in the near future.
You do know that teams change drastically yearly in personnel?
You do see that teams that won 9 games in one year then went on to win the SB the next year?
You do know that 4 members of the Browns won post season awards including Head Coach of the Year, and Assistant Coach of the Year.
Myles Garret did win DPOY.
Do you know these names? Joel Bitonio, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, David Njoku, and Jeremiah Owausu Koramoah. They play for the Browns and are Pro Bowlers.
There is next year.
Perhaps if you believe the Browns cannot win anything then maybe you should not over estimate what you actually know about the NFL.
I like the word “over estimate”. You nail that one.
The weak part in your argument is that the majority of the factors in your prediction is based on a best case scenario, bordering to living in a dreamland. You basically predict that all of our key players will deliver top production in the 2024 playoffs despite almost zero experience dealing with pressure and expectations in the last stages of the playoffs. Being a DPOY in the regular season means very little in the playoffs if the player don’t have the experience, confidence and the right mentality to transform talent into production when it matters the most.
I don’t mock your dreams, actually I like your positivity, but be a little bit more realistic and let the team do the talking before we blow balloons to the sky. Our first goal should be to win the division.
Yes, when he was signed here he had been healthy to that point. But let me give you a scenario that may or may not sink in. If you had two RT's on the FA market with almost identical grades, one had been healthy for the last three seasons and the other had played in 22 games out of 51 regular season games in the past three seasons. And also playing only 7 games three years ago and 1 game last season.
Which 1 of these 2 RT's would you target in the FA market? Which one would you give the highest offer to by far? And why would you do that?
You see, the NFL uses analytics. When a player has shown a propensity not to be able to remain healthy and on the field over a three season period of time, the NFL feels the risk factor of that player increases. The demand for his services and his monetary value decreases. The very reason that happens is something you seem to be in denial of. You seem to think you understand this situation better than the NFL does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Nor am I in denial. Nor do I need to be told that.
You just do not get it. What you want to do is win an argument that I am not making. If you had medical analysis from the Browns doctors that showed that the injuries he had were likely to occur again because of the previous injury then I would agree.
Your hypothetical examples are irrelevant because it is not applicable to what I stated.
I am not comparing Conklin to another free agent.
The Browns tackles are a specific case. Wills has under performed. IMO I would not resign him to the kind of money he made.
Conklin has a year left in a untradeable contract. All I want is for him to play out his contract and let him become a free agent. I have no long term commitment to Conklin. All I want is for him to play one year. I have to pay him no matter.
There is a valid argument to keep Wills for this year and let him hit free agency. It would provide good depth.
However, IMO Jones needs to play. He is on a cheap rookie deal. IMO he is better than Wills. I would pursue a trade for Wills because I would not have to pay him and I could get something in return rather than nothing after this year.
That makes sense to me.
All the BS about Conklin does not apply unless he cannot play this year. If the team doctors said he was toast that would be different.
You wanting to round round about Conklin is just you. I don't care if you agree or not.
I posted an answer to the thread. All you want to do is argue.
There's actually nothing to argue about. Your claim is that all injuries are random. The NFL doesn't see it that way. They have decided that any player with a lengthy injury history over the past few seasons isn't as desirable or worth the same money as a player of a similar skill set who has remained healthy over that period of time. Their injuries have devalued them. Analytics tells them that after repeated injuries it shows a propensity for future injuries. At this point you aren't arguing with me. You're arguing with the NFL. You're claiming that the Browns should depend on a starting RT that the NFL considers a higher risk than a player at the same position, with the same skill set which has remained healthy. Why? Because one has been a productive player over that period of time while the other has not.
It appears you're willing to support taking a gamble the NFL would prefer not. You're swimming against the current here. Betting on an inside straight gives you terrible odds. It's not like I've never gambled before but I would need better odds than that to wager on and so does the NFL.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It sure is. You think repeated injuries are random. The NFL, which the Browns are a part of and heavily ananlytically minded, disagree with you. That is the situation the Browns are in. Should they jettison one of their staring OT's to have to depend on an OT who hasn't remained healthy for the past three years? The Magic 8 ball says no.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
By your rational unless the players on the team have playoff experience they will never perform well in playoff games??
That is what you think? Really? You need a history lesson. Do a little homework before making blanket statements.
So being the best defensive player in the game means nothing in post season games unless he has playoff experience?
Flo you seem like a nice guy. I have nothing against you personally.
However, that is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read in regards to NFL football.
There are 17 regular season games. Seventeen games. If you do not play to your fullest capability in those games. You do not get to the playoffs.
Do you have any idea what Myles Garrett has accomplished in his career?
Are you under the impression that somehow in a playoff game that players transform themselves?
Honestly, I really do not know how to reply. I will let your words speak for themselves.
Against the Texans our defense didn’t perform as expected and Myles Garrett was from the outside maybe a little bit invisible. By no means bad but in a game like this he was one of the players that had to be on top of his game if we should have a chance. The same can be said of many others from the Browns.
In the Super Bowl you saw Chris Jones played out of his skin and delivered his best when his team needed it most. Just did what was needed without excuses and my MVP. That’s what separates winners from losers.
When you are able to watch replays of games and rewatch plays over and over again.
You see what happened and how plays are broke down.
You can see how Jones got through.
You can see how the Texans worked away from Myles and how they sped up the release time to nullify his rush. How they game planned Myles. Knowing what he can do.
Jones is a great player. He is great in every game. He held out against the Chiefs. Signed a one year deal. Wants $35+.
He didn't just show up in the Super Bowl and transend to another dimension. He is not the DPOY and he knows that.
You are a smart guy with a strong business background. You continue to try to apply what you have learned to the NFL. It does not work.
Not when it comes to the field of play. Business principals could apply to upper management of the Haslams. They do not apply to the building of the roster, the field of play, or the play of the players.
When it comes to the play of Jones and Garrett; you are out of your league. You see but you have not yet learned nor understand what you are watching.
It is ok. You are new to football and the Browns. I watched Jim Brown play. I have watched and played football since 1960 when I was thirteen.
After the number of years I have watched. I should know. I am not being boastful. I am old and I have studied the game a long time.
I think we need a dt and a wr. If we can draft a decent wideout and pick up a solid dt, I think we’ll win the AFC in 24/25. As for the division, Cincy will always contend w/ Burrow leading them. Baltimore can never be counted out. Pittsburgh is easily the worst team.
I think we need a dt and a wr. If we can draft a decent wideout and pick up a solid dt, I think we’ll win the AFC in 24/25. As for the division, Cincy will always contend w/ Burrow leading them. Baltimore can never be counted out. Pittsburgh is easily the worst team.
I don't disagree there...but we've been unable to draft a decent WR for decades. Our pass-catchers are Cooper and Njoku and then a bunch of guys who wouldn't even make the roster of the Bengals/Ravens/49ers/Chiefs...let alone play. I think they have to go after a vet WR AND start drafting WRs that look like the Chiefs WRs...fast quick guys who will be a drag to guard when DW4 starts running around in the backfield. (Look at the number of big plays by Mahommes that come in a scramble drill...it's gotta be 80% of his big plays.)
The Bengals have surrounded Burrow with terrific pass-catchers...we'll see what he looks like if T Higgins gets away and/or Boyd gets paid elsewhere. Cooper would be WR3 on that team.
The Ravens are what they are because of their defense. We had a very good defense last year...but the Ravens are so much tougher than we are that it's sad. Lamar wants to be a pocket passer...and he simply isn't. He has as many playoff wins as Baker Mayfield. Playoff teams find a way to hold him down...we've done it too.
If Pittsburgh finds a QB they will be right back in the running. They know how to draft playmakers all throughout the draft and always have a tough defense.
We need to sign an impact WR and draft a guy that fits the mold noted ^ (this is a deep WR class)...and also draft/sign that stud DT. We also need to find a RB in case Nick doesn't get back soon and a #2 TE that makes Bryant a #3...oh....and stop with guys like A Walker at LB. Draft a REAL LB who has size AND speed...not just a great team guy who doubles as a cheerleader.
We can get there...but we have a long way to go. As does most every team in the NFL after a season ends and players move around...retire...get older...get too expensive...etc.
Lastly, none of it matters if DW4 can't get back to form...from many, many years ago.
I agree with the assessment that we need a couple more WR’s a good #2 RB on O. On D another DL that can play the run and get to the passer and a LB that can defend the pass and the run. We need a good 5 impact players and it won’t be easy with the draft capital we have. AB has found solid players for us before and he’ll have to do it again if we expect to have another season like we had and go farther in the playoffs. Of course DW has to play well also.
Our draft capital is weak. Two picks in the top 100.
We have to use some combination of trade, free agent, and draft.
I see two guys who we could possibly trade. Wills and Newsome are guys we could move. Newsome is a good young player. We could get a second for him or a player.
Wills might bring a third or be in a trade deal for another player.
Hard to say how Berry sees this. He has shown reluctance to move players that he drafted.
So you claim the Browns are overpaying for Wills and yet you think some other team will step up and overpay for him and trade a player for him to do it? I'm still not sure where you get your math from. First a team wouldn't give up much of anything for a player with one year left on his contract. Any trade would first require Wills and the team in question reach a long term contract deal before any trade is made. Next, since you think Wills under performs you would have find a team willing to hitch their wagon to Wills in that long term deal. None of this is as simple as you're making it sound. Teams don't give up 3rd round draft picks for a one year, mediocre starter at LT. They don't trade away a sold asset for it either.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
When you are able to watch replays of games and rewatch plays over and over again.
You see what happened and how plays are broke down.
You can see how Jones got through.
You can see how the Texans worked away from Myles and how they sped up the release time to nullify his rush. How they game planned Myles. Knowing what he can do.
Jones is a great player. He is great in every game. He held out against the Chiefs. Signed a one year deal. Wants $35+.
He didn't just show up in the Super Bowl and transend to another dimension. He is not the DPOY and he knows that.
You are a smart guy with a strong business background. You continue to try to apply what you have learned to the NFL. It does not work.
Not when it comes to the field of play. Business principals could apply to upper management of the Haslams. They do not apply to the building of the roster, the field of play, or the play of the players.
When it comes to the play of Jones and Garrett; you are out of your league. You see but you have not yet learned nor understand what you are watching.
It is ok. You are new to football and the Browns. I watched Jim Brown play. I have watched and played football since 1960 when I was thirteen.
After the number of years I have watched. I should know. I am not being boastful. I am old and I have studied the game a long time.
It’s not exactly charming to downplay your debating opponent and elevate your own credibility by staple your past history as if what you’re argue is a fact. I know I’m a newbie when it comes to American football and I don’t hide it and that’s why most of my posts are opinions, a view from my perspective.
I’m going to put forward some stats from Cleveland Browns 2023 season.
1. Home and away results. Home 8W-1L Away 3W-5L
2. Results against top teams. vs. Ravens 3-28 @ Ravens 31-33
vs. 49ers 19-17
@ Texans 22-36 @ Texans 45-14 (playoff game)
3. Results in the playoffs. @Texans 45-14
I don’t have to be football expert like you to make conclusions because the results speaks for themselves.
I have a few questions to you.
a) Why is there such a discrepancy between our home and away results? (same players, same pitch, weather is weather) Is it mental? Are our boys homesick and scared playing away? Hostile environment? Food? Flights?
b) against the top teams our results are mix feelings. Our win against 49ers was impressive, they lost a couple of key players but so do we. Our best game of he season was against the Ravens away but why could ‘t we, especially the defense, replicate some of it in the playoffs ?
c) in the playoff game we collapsed. Only coincidence or do you find other reasons except injuries?
Having injuries is in my opinion part of the game. All teams dealing with injuries, bad and good luck, referee inconsistency and things like that. Good organizations deal with it, great team don’t let outside factors affect them to the extend they use them as excuses.
My conclusion, as an amateur and a newbie in this game and not an expert like you, is that most of our inconsistency between home and away results can be included in lack of mental toughness and and not having the right culture that can overcome all adversities. In the playoffs form and talent sometimes goes out of the window and mental toughness becomes an important part to execute to normal or better standard.
"The Browns are currently $19 m over the cap. Wills has a salary cap charge of over $14.5 m and the Browns can save and the Browns can save $12.7 m by trading him. There will undoubtedly be teams out there looking to add a player who could use a change in scenery and perhaps just a new environment all together. Executives all around the league will fire up their old scouting reports on Wills and believe that his best days are still ahead of him at just 25 years old."
I've seen such reports as well. For a sixth rounder. Nothing close to a third rounder you claimed the Browns could get for him. So sure, if you call a six pack and a ham sandwich something you would give away one of our starting OT's for.....
Cleveland trades Jedrick Wills
The Browns can save between $12M-$14.5M in cap space this offseason by trading Wills, depending on the time in which they move him. That amount of cap savings is a pretty big deal and the team can most likely find a suitor who’d be willing to give up something like a 6th-round pick for him. (Editor’s Note: The team values him much higher than this but Matt did say BOLD predictions.)
Yes, a 6th-round pick in return for a former 1st-round selection isn't ideal but it might be worth it to the future of the organization if they can free up that much money. They could even look into moving him during the draft in one of their trade packages to move up.
So you claim the Browns are overpaying for Wills and yet you think some other team will step up and overpay for him and trade a player for him to do it? I'm still not sure where you get your math from. First a team wouldn't give up much of anything for a player with one year left on his contract. Any trade would first require Wills and the team in question reach a long term contract deal before any trade is made. Next, since you think Wills under performs you would have find a team willing to hitch their wagon to Wills in that long term deal. None of this is as simple as you're making it sound. Teams don't give up 3rd round draft picks for a one year, mediocre starter at LT. They don't trade away a sold asset for it either.
To trade with someone the team has to trade someone of some kind of value. Wills has some value but like you said with 1 year remaining on his contract he won't gain the Browns much in a trade besides cap money. I thinkif the Browns have any assists that they may trade this off season Jedrick Wills, Greg Newsome, and Elijah Moore. The yare all young and could bring something back in return. Either cap space or another similar type player at a position of need.
I could see the possibility of these 3 trades.
Jedrick Wills to Patriots for a 6th round pick. Saves 12.7 in cap space and Browns get a late round pick.
Greg Newsome to Broncos for WR Jerry Juedy. Upgrade from Moore as a 2nd or 3rd WR option and Browns can now focus on resigning Martin Emerson
Elijah Moore to Chiefs for a 5th round pick. Replaced on roster by Jerry Juedy and traded for a later round pick.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I've never actually said he couldn't or wouldn't be traded. But as you've suggested they certainly wouldn't get much for him in return. At that point you would have to depend on Conklin who has been severely limited by injuries in two of his last three seasons and was only able to start one game in all of 2023 at the RT position. At some point you have to ask if the juice is worth the squeeze.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
When you dig inside the away and home record numbers it is the defense that played poorly.
Most teams have an advantage at home. It is hard to really know the why behind it especially the defense this year.
Crowd noise at home supports the defense. Teams practice for offensive disruption however the home field is still an advantage.
The Browns record against winning teams was 7-4. I threw out the last game against the Bengals. We did not play any starters in a meaningless game. That is a damn good record against winning teams.
The playoff game was a disappointment. I do have to credit the Texans. They had a good game plan and out played us. What was most notable was the pressure on Flacco from the play of our offensive tackles. Playing the third and fourth OT's will get those kinds of results and the turnovers that came with that. The other thing that stood out was they attacked our rookie sub safety Hickman and Newsome the slot corner. The results were big plays given up.
Credit Houston they played well.
Mental toughness is nothing more than a media term. It is not quantifiable and is a meaningless term.
Tell me the plays from every player on the field on offense, defense and special teams when you can see or not see their mental toughness over the 18 games played.
This article was written in January of 2023 before the 2023 season began. Wills still had one year to play on his current deal with the 2023 season contract only costing a team who would consider trading for him $3,296,761. Here it is from your own source.....
Quote
Contract For New Team
2023 - $3,296,761 (fully guaranteed)
2024 - 5th year option worth $13.935m, must be exercised this offseason
The Browns didn't pick up Wills fifth year option until the beginning of May in 2023 which means any team who traded for him before May would not have been obligated for that $13.935m money for 2024 like they would be now. The situation is totally different now than it was then.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
When you dig inside the away and home record numbers it is the defense that played poorly.
Most teams have an advantage at home. It is hard to really know the why behind it especially the defense this year.
Crowd noise at home supports the defense. Teams practice for offensive disruption however the home field is still an advantage.
The Browns record against winning teams was 7-4. I threw out the last game against the Bengals. We did not play any starters in a meaningless game. That is a damn good record against winning teams.
The playoff game was a disappointment. I do have to credit the Texans. They had a good game plan and out played us. What was most notable was the pressure on Flacco from the play of our offensive tackles. Playing the third and fourth OT's will get those kinds of results and the turnovers that came with that. The other thing that stood out was they attacked our rookie sub safety Hickman and Newsome the slot corner. The results were big plays given up.
Credit Houston they played well.
Mental toughness is nothing more than a media term. It is not quantifiable and is a meaningless term.
Tell me the plays from every player on the field on offense, defense and special teams when you can see or not see their mental toughness over the 18 games played.
I strongly disagree and btw Michael Jordan, Pat Mahomes, Tom Brady and Novak Djokovic sends their best regards to you.
As a former alpine skier, with a couple years in the Scandinavian Tour, I have first hand experience of mental toughness, or maybe I should say experience of how to not deal with it. Performing when it matters most, to the best of your abilities, is a form of an art and requires a strong self confidence and commitment. Some are born with it and some are not.
I have been to several seminars with active Olympic winners, world championship winners and other top athletes and the mental part of the game is what often separates the very best from the wannabes. One of my country’s most famous athletes, by some ranked as one of the 10 best NHL players of all time, was a monster when it comes to produce in the Stanley Cup’s later rounds, Olympic finals and World championships. We have psychologist who can talk for hours about his mental toughness and what separates him from many other huge talents.
Kobe is famous for his mamba mentality. Do I have to mention Big Mike? You know the guy who’s the golden standard of being the best when it matters most. Maybe you heard about him? Many sports psychologists even mention that when the opponent team hear the first seconds of Alan Parsons Project and the announcer mention Jordan’s name the game is practically over. It’s like standing at the foot of Mount Everest without an oxygen tank.
So stop talking BS about media term. Honestly! WT flying F??
The very best step up when their team needs them. Ask any world class tennis player what’s Djokovic’s biggest strength. Do you think they mention his stamina, even if it’s world class, his backhand crosses, his ability to almost always be inside the lines or what do you think they say?
Listen to Patrick Bet-David’s interview with TB12 and what interested him most. Mental toughness. His winning drives in the Super Bowls. I think Pat Mahames scored in all of his last four drives against the Niners. Mental toughness. The ability to deliver when the pressure is sky high.
What do you call it? A meaningless term or the definition of a mental monster who doesn’t crumble under pressure. You tell me, the amateur, so I can hear first hand from a pro.
There is not some mental toughness faucet to turn on or off.
When you compete it is all in or the competition will be all in and you will lose. You compete at practice to be the starter. You compete in the classroom to learn your assignment. You compete on every play.
The very nature of competition is a mindset.
I ask so you can tell when watching a football game who is mentally tough?
On any given play there is a lot going on. Sometimes a player wins their battle and others lose theirs. Sometimes players get fooled.
Every offensive play is designed to be a touchdown if every player does his job. However, it does not work that way.
So if Mahomes throws a int. did he step up? When Michael misses the shot to win the game was he not mentally tough enough?
When a boxer gets knocked out was it because he was not mentally tough?
Greatness is greatness period. It is more than being more mentally tough.
My daughter graduated from college "magna [censored] laude" after earning a scholarship to college.
She did that while holding down a full time job and being pregnant. She received an MBA going to school at night while holding down a full time job and having a second child.
She will have a doctorate next year while working full time as a single parent.
"The Browns are currently $19 m over the cap. Wills has a salary cap charge of over $14.5 m and the Browns can save and the Browns can save $12.7 m by trading him. There will undoubtedly be teams out there looking to add a player who could use a change in scenery and perhaps just a new environment all together. Executives all around the league will fire up their old scouting reports on Wills and believe that his best days are still ahead of him at just 25 years old."
Local, obscure blog The Factory of Sadness is hardly a "local news report."
Everything I have read from local beat reporters is that Jedrick Wills is well thought of inside the building in Berea. Wills had a top 10 pass-block win rate last year. He's not going anywhere.
You just named a bunch of sports athletes that either: control the game by having the ball in their hand (QBs, bball, hockey) or play a sport where it's just a single player (or duos - tennis).
Its more technical than this, but the bottom line: Basketball - get the ball to your star, let him do his thing Hockey - get the puck to your star, let him do his thing
As for football, it's 11 on 11 with two different sides of the ball. As for Brady, Mahomes these are guys controlling the game by having the ball in their hands every snap. They are/were superstars at their position.
Basketball and Football are definitely not comparable. Sure they are team games, however it's not close to the same.
