That is a billion dollar question. If it were simple we would not be waiting since 1964.
It takes an entire organization with a single purpose.
You need the talent on the roster built by a great talent evaluator. You need an excellent coaching staff led by a great head coach.
You need a great quarterback playing at his best. DW has to rise up and play to his full ability.
You need luck especially with injuries but also a couple good breaks along the way.
The Browns are no longer a cellar dweller. We have good talent spread throughout the roster. We need a few upgrades here and there. But that can be addressed this off season.
The organization has come a long way since KS and AB took over. It is more than the two playoff appearances. I have listened to players outside the Browns make comments about players like Ward, JOK, Myles, Delpit, Nick, Coop. The overall talent has improved.
We are much closer than we have been since 1986 and 1987. It is a realistic goal.
What do the Browns need to add to make the Super Bowl next season?
I don't know if that question can be answered. We have a good team and coaches. We might not need to add anything.
Most times it is just the way the cards fall. That doesn't mean pure luck. I means if you have a off day and another team has their best day, it may not work out.
After watching the Super Bowl and trying hard to be objective.
I really paid attention to what I was watching. It was interesting because the two teams that played were way different and the game was so close. it really could have gone either way.
It is easy to carry on about Mahomes being the alpha dog quarterback. He deserves that praise because when it had to happen. He made it happen. He drove the team and made the big plays. He is a great football player. The Chiefs are a good team but there is no mistaking what makes them tick.
Purdy did nothing to lose the game. He played well. The Niners are a system team. Purdy is the trigger man for a really good team. IMO the Niners are the better team overall. So, it begs the question how do we compare? And how can we win the Super Bowl.
The Browns do not have Mahomes and neither does any other team. He is the best quarterback playing today. He is only 28. So to beat the Chiefs you have to contain Mahomes.
DW can play better than Purdy. He has at least his skills and probably more. If we can equal a roster like the Niners. We can win a Super Bowl.
How to beat Mahomes? IMO the way begins with pass coverage and ends with pressure. In addition Mahomes has to be game planned as a runner. There were plays Mahomes made with his legs that made the victory happen. Key third downs were he ran up the middle. Defensively you must prepare for that.
The Browns have to build a defense to win a championship. It should be a priority to evaluate the team with that critical eye. You must be aware that you need a defense to beat Mahomes.
We have some of it in place but we need more. Ward and Emerson are both excellent boundary corners. Delpit is the right kind of safety. JOK is a key linebacker. Myles is Myles. We need another pass rusher one like Chris Jones inside. He is a helleva player. He brings rush disruption from the inside.
If we play a base 4-2-5 we are playing dime or heavy nickle. So the second linebacker has to be quick enough and strong enough to play coverage, run support, and be able to spy Mahomes inside to outside. JOK can do that. But we need another guy with that skill set.
The defense then must be game planned to the Chiefs tendencies on downs and distance. Anticipating Mahomes as a run option in certain situations.
It can be done and we are not as far away as some might think.
Given the improvement the team had with the changes in the coaching on the defensive side, imo, the Browns need to continue to focus on improving the defense and hope the coaching changes to the offensive side provide similar results. Hopefully the Browns offense gels early and quickly.
After watching the Super Bowl and trying hard to be objective.
I really paid attention to what I was watching. It was interesting because the two teams that played were way different and the game was so close. it really could have gone either way.
It is easy to carry on about Mahomes being the alpha dog quarterback. He deserves that praise because when it had to happen. He made it happen. He drove the team and made the big plays. He is a great football player. The Chiefs are a good team but there is no mistaking what makes them tick.
Purdy did nothing to lose the game. He played well. The Niners are a system team. Purdy is the trigger man for a really good team. IMO the Niners are the better team overall. So, it begs the question how do we compare? And how can we win the Super Bowl.
The Browns do not have Mahomes and neither does any other team. He is the best quarterback playing today. He is only 28. So to beat the Chiefs you have to contain Mahomes.
DW can play better than Purdy. He has at least his skills and probably more. If we can equal a roster like the Niners. We can win a Super Bowl.
How to beat Mahomes? IMO the way begins with pass coverage and ends with pressure. In addition Mahomes has to be game planned as a runner. There were plays Mahomes made with his legs that made the victory happen. Key third downs were he ran up the middle. Defensively you must prepare for that.
The Browns have to build a defense to win a championship. It should be a priority to evaluate the team with that critical eye. You must be aware that you need a defense to beat Mahomes.
We have some of it in place but we need more. Ward and Emerson are both excellent boundary corners. Delpit is the right kind of safety. JOK is a key linebacker. Myles is Myles. We need another pass rusher one like Chris Jones inside. He is a helleva player. He brings rush disruption from the inside.
If we play a base 4-2-5 we are playing dime or heavy nickle. So the second linebacker has to be quick enough and strong enough to play coverage, run support, and be able to spy Mahomes inside to outside. JOK can do that. But we need another guy with that skill set.
The defense then must be game planned to the Chiefs tendencies on downs and distance. Anticipating Mahomes as a run option in certain situations.
It can be done and we are not as far away as some might think.
I think everything you said is well thought out. But 2 things.
How Long have we heard " we are not as far away as some think"? I've heard that battle cry since 2000. I think 31 teams can claim that other than the Panthers. Heck I recall 4 years back the Browns opened the season Vs the Chiefs and everyone said " it's OK if we lose to the Chiefs Game 1 . Baker is gonna do this do that. " The Browns were already being fitted for SB rings. What happened? Failure. I think the Browns had some things go their way in 2023. So many teams that lost their starting QB in the AFC By mid year we're out of contention. And the Browns didn't exactly face good QBs down the stretch.
Number 2. Before you can start worrying about the CHIEFS 1st win the division and get home field . The only team that has Been able to overcome the Chiefs Of late is the Bengals
One - the play of Dawand Jones. He was an absolute steal in the draft and has to be a starter. He makes Wills expendable in a trade. Wills is a young starter who will never be pro bowl material. He should be used in trade to improve another position.
Two- Cam Mitchell is a good young slot corner. But we really scored on Emerson. Emerson's play moved Newsome to the slot. Newsome is a former first rounder who could play corner for many teams. He is a young talented player. But again he can be used to improve another position.
What do we need? We need a dominant 3 tech DT. A player in the mold of Chris Jones. A guy who can be matched up with Tomlinson as a 3 tech with inside pass rush penetration.
We should not resign Awok. He is to slow. He is a leader but we need more speed at Mike. Taki is a good rotation piece. But we need a guy who can cover and still be stout enough for run support. A guy with enough quickness to act as a spy in third and long. We need that against Lamar, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Stroud, Tua, and alpha dog Mahomes. JOK at Will can be used against TE's and backs. We need more speed for the base defense of 4-2-5. So, the inside backer position has to be better.
Berry has to build the defense to win a championship. We can improve the offense easily by adding another productive proven receiver. I mean we got Cooper with a fifth. Nick being Nick fixes that position. But we cannot assume Nick to be what he was. We have to draft a running back. It is easier in the draft because RB's have been devalued.
I'll just touch on one thing. Conklin's injury history over the past few seasons indicate he can't be counted on. That is a fact which is hard to dispute. With that said I don't see how that makes Willis expendable. Not every player on your roster is going to be pro bowl material. Now if you would have suggested that they may be better off switching Jones to LT and Willis to RT I might lean more in your direction. But the last thing the Browns need right now is to jettison an OT that has the ability to start. They already used the option to keep Willis in 2024 and I don't see that changing.
I understand that moving Wills to RT sounds good because of Conklin's injury history.
However, Conklin is under contract for 2024 at big money to walk away from. He is also 29.
Wills is 24 and has way more value. Conklin has little trade value by comparison.
So, if we did trade Wills. We would need to invest in another tackle somewhere be it FA or the draft. It would not need to be an immediate starter. I am not a big fan of Hudson but he can play swing.
It is IMO a matter of improvement and position priority along with what you have to use as leverage for improvement.
If it "would not need to be an immediate starter" they're right back at square one in depending on an often injured Conklin as the starter. Strengthening one area is great of you're not severely weakening another area at the same time. You're just exchanging one hole in your roster by creating another hole somewhere else.
We can't just cut Conklin. If we can't rely on him to start then he would be an expensive back-up for a year. We need depth as we saw this past season.
Jones has way more upside than Wills. I do not think it is a hole.
It is IMO using Wills to get an improved starter at a position of need.
A starting OL with Jones and Conklin is IMO an improvement. Yes we need to invest in the OL but in a different way. Jones was an investment. It so happens he was ready sooner than expected.
However, if Wills can bring us a much improved Mike or a great three tech DT. I think overall you improve the team.
To beat the contenders in the playoffs. We have to improve the defense. Free agency is about being the highest bidder with no control where the player will sign. The draft is a higher risk that can mean waiting for development that may not happen.
In trade you can target a player you want. Then it is more about having the asset to bring value.
The defense proved to be inconsistent. We gave up 24 points in the first half against the Texans.
In addition the differences in the defensive numbers at home versus the road were glaring.
When Chris Jones forced a fourth down field goal and stopped the TD. It proved in my eyes that pressure wins games. Just like when Aaron Donald won the SB with his play.
We lost to many offensive players to injury. There is little you can do there. We will be good enough on offense with returning players and some additions.
In order to beat Mahomes and other AFC mobile quarterbacks. We have to be better on defense.
Conklin hasn't been able to stay healthy. Using one of our starters at the OT position in a trade creates one need while addressing a different need. When you have a passing QB like watson creating a hole at one of your OT positions isn't constructive to your production. Hudson isn't a legitimate starter at either OT spots. I'm not sure what you are missing about the current pattern of consistent injuries Conklin has sustained and why that makes him not a dependable alternative you are missing here.
In 2022 he did manage to play in 14 games. In 2021 he played in 7 games and in 2023 he played in one game. If that's the gamble you're willing to take at a starting OT position then so be it. But I for one won't be joining you.
Not being able to protect your QB won't make you a SB team. I've made it plain I disagree with you. You have your "plan" but no part of my plan involves weakening the OT position unless you can find a way to trade Conklin. But of course with his injury history combined with his salary that isn't going to happen. And there's a reason that won't happen. NFL GM's will understand and know with his injury history they can't count on him staying healthy. According to your plan you disagree with them because you would have Conklin penciled in as the starter.
So you can leave it at we just disagree or you can continue on. That is up to you. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there is a huge risk it will create a problem protecting watson. Hopefully we won't see that scenario play out.
Conklin may or may not get injured no different than anyone.
His past few seasons say otherwise. Once is an anomaly. Twice may be considered bad luck. But several injuries over a short span of time is a continuing trend. I don't think that's a difficult concept to understand.
Random has been a frequent flyer to the Conklin Airport. It seems that availability isn't an issue with you. I'm sorry you don't recognize an obvious pattern of injuries.
So you think we are paying Willis too much but expect another NFL team will step up to the plate and overpay him in order to get him? Mmmmm hmmmmm. I see that "we just disagree" isn't good enough for you.
I only disagreed with one part of your plan. I'm sorry I haven't devised a complete plan of attack to address the 2024 season. The SB just ended yesterday. I think to actually formulate a plan will take some time and strong consideration.
But you see, I have no idea who or what positions they will address in the FA market. I have no idea which positions they will draft or where in the draft they will be selected. What I'm pretty sure of is neither your plan nor any plan I could concoct in my brain will measure up to their plan. and something tells me weakening the OT position when you have invested so much in watson won't be a part of their plan because people in the FO I'm pretty sure know just how much protecting watson means to the future of this team and their jobs.
The future of his franchise rests on the shoulders of watson. Protecting him and giving him the offensive weapons to throw to will be priority one.
After watching the Super Bowl and trying hard to be objective.
I really paid attention to what I was watching. It was interesting because the two teams that played were way different and the game was so close. it really could have gone either way.
It is easy to carry on about Mahomes being the alpha dog quarterback. He deserves that praise because when it had to happen. He made it happen. He drove the team and made the big plays. He is a great football player. The Chiefs are a good team but there is no mistaking what makes them tick.
Purdy did nothing to lose the game. He played well. The Niners are a system team. Purdy is the trigger man for a really good team. IMO the Niners are the better team overall. So, it begs the question how do we compare? And how can we win the Super Bowl.
The Browns do not have Mahomes and neither does any other team. He is the best quarterback playing today. He is only 28. So to beat the Chiefs you have to contain Mahomes.
DW can play better than Purdy. He has at least his skills and probably more. If we can equal a roster like the Niners. We can win a Super Bowl.
How to beat Mahomes? IMO the way begins with pass coverage and ends with pressure. In addition Mahomes has to be game planned as a runner. There were plays Mahomes made with his legs that made the victory happen. Key third downs were he ran up the middle. Defensively you must prepare for that.
The Browns have to build a defense to win a championship. It should be a priority to evaluate the team with that critical eye. You must be aware that you need a defense to beat Mahomes.
We have some of it in place but we need more. Ward and Emerson are both excellent boundary corners. Delpit is the right kind of safety. JOK is a key linebacker. Myles is Myles. We need another pass rusher one like Chris Jones inside. He is a helleva player. He brings rush disruption from the inside.
If we play a base 4-2-5 we are playing dime or heavy nickle. So the second linebacker has to be quick enough and strong enough to play coverage, run support, and be able to spy Mahomes inside to outside. JOK can do that. But we need another guy with that skill set.
The defense then must be game planned to the Chiefs tendencies on downs and distance. Anticipating Mahomes as a run option in certain situations.
It can be done and we are not as far away as some might think .
No! You’re not trying hard to be objective, not even close.
Watson has not once in his NFL career shown that he’s a big time player. No division title. No conference title. Nothing. His peak was between 2019 to 2020 and not even then was he close to win something significant.
His decline from 2020 to today is all there in black and white. Cherry pick one or a couple of games means nothing. Just have a look at the 2023 regular season MVP and it’s easy to understand that regular season games is totally different to a playoff run and to go all the way. Both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen has much much more playoff success then our 230 million superstar and still they haven’t even won a conference final.
San Fran had probably the best roster in the NFL. Their offensive line up was as good as it gets and their defense was maybe even better, still they lost.
The Browns have two major players coming back from career threatening injuries. DSW and Nick Chubb. We only have one decent WR. Our TE is good, sometimes very good but he’s not as productive as the very best. Gronk and Kelce has delivered high numbers over a span of several seasons, including multiple SB wins. That’s the quality needed to be the best. We don’t have one single playmaker close to that quality when it comes to producing TD, especially in the playoffs.
To win our division we need a peak form production from Watson, Chubb, Cooper, Njoku and at least two new high quality receivers. Our defense needs to replicate last regular seasons form, then top that and even get better in the playoffs.
Our special team and kicker needs to be almost flawless in the playoffs. Niners missed one goal kick in regular time and that was probably the difference between the teams.
Finally, Stefanski or whoever that take the play calls needs to level Andy Reid’s tactical quality in almost every clutch moment thru three games in a row.
So to say we’re close is wishful thinking. Until we have reached a conference final we should stop deluding ourselves. Action talks louder than words.
Cleveland Browns did great in 2023, as they did in 2020. Our first goal 2024 must be to win the division playoff final.
After that we qualify to discuss how far away we’re from a Super Bowl win.
A plan to win a Super Bowl was the question posed.
At this stage you determine your weakness. What needs to improve.
Free agency and the draft are tools to acquire assets. They do not need to be specific now. But the plan of what needs to be improved and how.
That is what is being done now. Berry may believe in Wills and plan to extend him. Before we signed DT free agents last year. It first had to be decided that the position had to be better. Later they found Tomlinson, Hurst, and Harris.
IMO we have to have a plan to beat the Champs. My plan is based upon a better rush up the middle and more speed at Mike.
Berry's plan could be a more wide open passing attack which could include the addition of more and better receivers. Maybe his plan includes OL upgrades and more depth. His plan may be to outscore teams through the air.
This is a good topic for discussion because people could see this differently. First you need a plan of where to improve. Then you decide how to go about it and finally what players will fit the plan.
There The Browns have two major players coming back from career threatening injuries. DSW and Nick Chubb. We only have one decent WR. Our TE is good, sometimes very good but he’s not as productive as the very best. Gronk and Kelce has delivered high numbers over a span of several seasons, including multiple SB wins. That’s the quality needed to be the best. We don’t have one single playmaker close to that quality when it comes to producing TD, especially in the playoffs.
To win our division we need a peak form production from Watson, Chubb, Cooper, Njoku and at least two new high quality receivers. Our defense needs to replicate last regular seasons form, then top that and even get better in the playoffs.
Our special team and kicker needs to be almost flawless in the playoffs. Niners missed one goal kick in regular time and that was probably the difference between the teams.
Finally, Stefanski or whoever that take the play calls needs to level Andy Reid’s tactical quality in almost every clutch moment thru three games in a row.
So to say we’re close is wishful thinking. Until we have reached a conference final we should stop deluding ourselves. Action talks louder than words.
Cleveland Browns did great in 2023, as they did in 2020. Our first goal 2024 must be to win the division playoff final.
After that we qualify to discuss how far away we’re from a Super Bowl win.
I don’t think people realize how many question marks the Browns have going into next season. They caught lightning in a bottle this past season. Not a single thing that happened this past season can be counted on to happen again.
Of these four options, what is most likely to happen next year -
Ravens miss the playoffs Bengals miss the playoffs Steelers have a losing record Browns have a losing record
In order for the Browns to even have a winning record, Watson has to be great and Stefanski has to be great. The offense needs one to two more playmakers, and the defense has to prove last year wasn’t a fluke.
Those are all tall orders in a league where every season is a crapshoot except for those with track records of doing it.
It is no different than the number of questions on the defense this time last year.
Browns are not blowing it up and starting fresh again.
On the offense this coming year, they are changing philosophy to cater more toward Watson instead of Baker (or Flacco and Brissett). People don't realize the scheme difference between Watson and the others.
I believe Kevin knew, but tried to make it work with AVP and staff. AVP and coaches are programmed toward a pre-snap QB scheme. There is nothing wrong here. It's what they know and do best. I think the Patriots did right hiring AVP and staff to work with Jones.
Watson is a post-snap QB. They needed to change the coaching staff to meet the demand.
"Watson has not once in his NFL career shown that he’s a big time player. No division title. No conference title. Nothing. His peak was between 2019 to 2020 and not even then was he close to win something significant."
Do you understand that it takes a team to win?
Have you ever heard of Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton?
So, is it your belief that Purdy is elite? Do you believe that the Niners are not a strong roster and that Purdy would have won something playing in Houston if he would have been playing there when DW played?
So, you know all about DW "decline" from 12 games over two years? Really tell me. Tell me what you know.
Are you really saying that no team who won 11 games is unable to win a division, and then win games in the playoffs and a Super Bowl? That doing that is impossible?
New York Giants 2011 9-7 Won SB Baltimore Ravens 2012 10-6 Won SB Green Bay Packers 2010 10-6 Won SB New York Giants 2007 10-6 Won SB San Francisco 49ers 1988 10-6 Won SB Kansas City Chiefs 2023 11-6 Won SB
It is no different than the number of questions on the defense this time last year.
Browns are not blowing it up and starting fresh again.
On the offense this coming year, they are changing philosophy to cater more toward Watson instead of Baker (or Flacco and Brissett). People don't realize the scheme difference between Watson and the others.
I believe Kevin knew, but tried to make it work with AVP and staff. AVP and coaches are programmed toward a pre-snap QB scheme. There is nothing wrong here. It's what they know and do best. I think the Patriots did right hiring AVP and staff to work with Jones.
Watson is a post-snap QB. They needed to change the coaching staff to meet the demand.
I don't disagree with anything you said there ^. I will add that the bolded part of your post was what we were supposed to do last off-season.
I believe the roster the Browns put out in 2023 was good enough to be a Super Bowl team. The Browns roster was very comparable to the Niners roster. The difference was the Browns lost key players to injury like no other team in the league. I believe the 2024 team will look different that the 2023 version but will be a very good roster once again. There will be injuries. Every team has them but the injuries just hopefully not to as many key players as 2023. Then the offense needs to have less turnovers. The Browns as a team needs to change the turnover problem to make a Super Bowl run.
"Watson has not once in his NFL career shown that he’s a big time player. No division title. No conference title. Nothing. His peak was between 2019 to 2020 and not even then was he close to win something significant."
Do you understand that it takes a team to win?
Have you ever heard of Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton?
So, is it your belief that Purdy is elite? Do you believe that the Niners are not a strong roster and that Purdy would have won something playing in Houston if he would have been playing there when DW played?
So, you know all about DW "decline" from 12 games over two years? Really tell me. Tell me what you know.
Are you really saying that no team who won 11 games is unable to win a division, and then win games in the playoffs and a Super Bowl? That doing that is impossible?
New York Giants 2011 9-7 Won SB Baltimore Ravens 2012 10-6 Won SB Green Bay Packers 2010 10-6 Won SB New York Giants 2007 10-6 Won SB San Francisco 49ers 1988 10-6 Won SB Kansas City Chiefs 2023 11-6 Won SB
Are you aware that the 2023 roster and the 2024 will be different?
Here we are in February with free agency and the draft in the near future.
You do know that teams change drastically yearly in personnel?
You do see that teams that won 9 games in one year then went on to win the SB the next year?
You do know that 4 members of the Browns won post season awards including Head Coach of the Year, and Assistant Coach of the Year.
Myles Garret did win DPOY.
Do you know these names? Joel Bitonio, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, David Njoku, and Jeremiah Owausu Koramoah. They play for the Browns and are Pro Bowlers.
There is next year.
Perhaps if you believe the Browns cannot win anything then maybe you should not over estimate what you actually know about the NFL.
Why wre you talking about improving our weaknesses when you advocate trading away one of our starting OT's to help bolster our D when the D IS OUR STRENGTH!? Your math isn't adding up on that one.
I believe we need to be better defensively to win a Super Bowl. The Texans convinced me because they scored 24 points in the first half against our strength.
When you look at the difference in the numbers between away and home. Our defense played poorly on the road.
Wills may be a starter but has he performed to the level of his draft selection or salary? I do not think so.
IMO Jones is already a better player. You can agree or not.
If we can use his money or value to upgrade at DT or middle linebacker. IMO it improves the team overall.
That is my math. If you think Wills is a great LT then fine. I do not.
Like I said I would rather trade him now and get something. Than extend him or let him walk in free agency next year.
So first you claim that Willis isn't easrning his pay and then say we should trade him? Maybe you should explain in "your plan" what other team is going to trade for him so they can overpay him? Try reading this one more time. Conklin has proven he can't stay healthy. It been an ongoing trend not some one off. Nobody said Willis is a "great LT" so I see you're now resorting to just making BS up.
Somehow you think a team is going to pay him over 14 million when he is only under contract for one season when you claim that's too much to be paying him. Your math seems to be a little fuzzy.
Try reading this. Past injury does not predict future injury. If that was not the case then every rehab and return would be a waste of time. Have players recovered from injury and returned to play?
I am not resorting to making anything up. I asked. Do you think Wills is a great LT? Nothing made up.
Everything is not an argument Pit no matter how hard you try to make it so.
In My Opinion. Wills has under performed. He is a young guy who has started and was a first round draft pick. He has value. How much? That will be determined.
Basically Conklin cannot be traded. He has another year on his contract. Play him for that year.
Jones is ready to start. I believe he is the future at LT.
Wills can be traded now because he becomes a free agent in a year. I do not want to sign him.
So, IMO it is better to trade him now than get nothing next year.
If that is fuzzy to you; I am sorry for not being able to make myself clear.
Yes let's just ignore what has become a trend and pretend it doesn't exist.
Ignoring obvious patterns has been the downfall of many. Conklin has exhibited an obvious pattern of not being able to remain healthy. That's not some mythical story which has been invented.
I'm the one who said let's leave it at we just disagree. Don't blame me because you can't figure out Conklin can't be counted on and that you think the answer is to trade away one of the Browns starting OT's.
Are you aware that the 2023 roster and the 2024 will be different?
Here we are in February with free agency and the draft in the near future.
You do know that teams change drastically yearly in personnel?
You do see that teams that won 9 games in one year then went on to win the SB the next year?
You do know that 4 members of the Browns won post season awards including Head Coach of the Year, and Assistant Coach of the Year.
Myles Garret did win DPOY.
Do you know these names? Joel Bitonio, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, David Njoku, and Jeremiah Owausu Koramoah. They play for the Browns and are Pro Bowlers.
There is next year.
Perhaps if you believe the Browns cannot win anything then maybe you should not over estimate what you actually know about the NFL.
I like the word “over estimate”. You nail that one.
The weak part in your argument is that the majority of the factors in your prediction is based on a best case scenario, bordering to living in a dreamland. You basically predict that all of our key players will deliver top production in the 2024 playoffs despite almost zero experience dealing with pressure and expectations in the last stages of the playoffs. Being a DPOY in the regular season means very little in the playoffs if the player don’t have the experience, confidence and the right mentality to transform talent into production when it matters the most.
I don’t mock your dreams, actually I like your positivity, but be a little bit more realistic and let the team do the talking before we blow balloons to the sky. Our first goal should be to win the division.
Yes, when he was signed here he had been healthy to that point. But let me give you a scenario that may or may not sink in. If you had two RT's on the FA market with almost identical grades, one had been healthy for the last three seasons and the other had played in 22 games out of 51 regular season games in the past three seasons. And also playing only 7 games three years ago and 1 game last season.
Which 1 of these 2 RT's would you target in the FA market? Which one would you give the highest offer to by far? And why would you do that?
You see, the NFL uses analytics. When a player has shown a propensity not to be able to remain healthy and on the field over a three season period of time, the NFL feels the risk factor of that player increases. The demand for his services and his monetary value decreases. The very reason that happens is something you seem to be in denial of. You seem to think you understand this situation better than the NFL does.
Nor am I in denial. Nor do I need to be told that.
You just do not get it. What you want to do is win an argument that I am not making. If you had medical analysis from the Browns doctors that showed that the injuries he had were likely to occur again because of the previous injury then I would agree.
Your hypothetical examples are irrelevant because it is not applicable to what I stated.
I am not comparing Conklin to another free agent.
The Browns tackles are a specific case. Wills has under performed. IMO I would not resign him to the kind of money he made.
Conklin has a year left in a untradeable contract. All I want is for him to play out his contract and let him become a free agent. I have no long term commitment to Conklin. All I want is for him to play one year. I have to pay him no matter.
There is a valid argument to keep Wills for this year and let him hit free agency. It would provide good depth.
However, IMO Jones needs to play. He is on a cheap rookie deal. IMO he is better than Wills. I would pursue a trade for Wills because I would not have to pay him and I could get something in return rather than nothing after this year.
That makes sense to me.
All the BS about Conklin does not apply unless he cannot play this year. If the team doctors said he was toast that would be different.
You wanting to round round about Conklin is just you. I don't care if you agree or not.
I posted an answer to the thread. All you want to do is argue.
There's actually nothing to argue about. Your claim is that all injuries are random. The NFL doesn't see it that way. They have decided that any player with a lengthy injury history over the past few seasons isn't as desirable or worth the same money as a player of a similar skill set who has remained healthy over that period of time. Their injuries have devalued them. Analytics tells them that after repeated injuries it shows a propensity for future injuries. At this point you aren't arguing with me. You're arguing with the NFL. You're claiming that the Browns should depend on a starting RT that the NFL considers a higher risk than a player at the same position, with the same skill set which has remained healthy. Why? Because one has been a productive player over that period of time while the other has not.
It appears you're willing to support taking a gamble the NFL would prefer not. You're swimming against the current here. Betting on an inside straight gives you terrible odds. It's not like I've never gambled before but I would need better odds than that to wager on and so does the NFL.
It sure is. You think repeated injuries are random. The NFL, which the Browns are a part of and heavily ananlytically minded, disagree with you. That is the situation the Browns are in. Should they jettison one of their staring OT's to have to depend on an OT who hasn't remained healthy for the past three years? The Magic 8 ball says no.
By your rational unless the players on the team have playoff experience they will never perform well in playoff games??
That is what you think? Really? You need a history lesson. Do a little homework before making blanket statements.
So being the best defensive player in the game means nothing in post season games unless he has playoff experience?
Flo you seem like a nice guy. I have nothing against you personally.
However, that is one of the dumbest statements I have ever read in regards to NFL football.
There are 17 regular season games. Seventeen games. If you do not play to your fullest capability in those games. You do not get to the playoffs.
Do you have any idea what Myles Garrett has accomplished in his career?
Are you under the impression that somehow in a playoff game that players transform themselves?
Honestly, I really do not know how to reply. I will let your words speak for themselves.
Against the Texans our defense didn’t perform as expected and Myles Garrett was from the outside maybe a little bit invisible. By no means bad but in a game like this he was one of the players that had to be on top of his game if we should have a chance. The same can be said of many others from the Browns.
In the Super Bowl you saw Chris Jones played out of his skin and delivered his best when his team needed it most. Just did what was needed without excuses and my MVP. That’s what separates winners from losers.
When you are able to watch replays of games and rewatch plays over and over again.
You see what happened and how plays are broke down.
You can see how Jones got through.
You can see how the Texans worked away from Myles and how they sped up the release time to nullify his rush. How they game planned Myles. Knowing what he can do.
Jones is a great player. He is great in every game. He held out against the Chiefs. Signed a one year deal. Wants $35+.
He didn't just show up in the Super Bowl and transend to another dimension. He is not the DPOY and he knows that.
You are a smart guy with a strong business background. You continue to try to apply what you have learned to the NFL. It does not work.
Not when it comes to the field of play. Business principals could apply to upper management of the Haslams. They do not apply to the building of the roster, the field of play, or the play of the players.
When it comes to the play of Jones and Garrett; you are out of your league. You see but you have not yet learned nor understand what you are watching.
It is ok. You are new to football and the Browns. I watched Jim Brown play. I have watched and played football since 1960 when I was thirteen.
After the number of years I have watched. I should know. I am not being boastful. I am old and I have studied the game a long time.
I think we need a dt and a wr. If we can draft a decent wideout and pick up a solid dt, I think we’ll win the AFC in 24/25. As for the division, Cincy will always contend w/ Burrow leading them. Baltimore can never be counted out. Pittsburgh is easily the worst team.
I think we need a dt and a wr. If we can draft a decent wideout and pick up a solid dt, I think we’ll win the AFC in 24/25. As for the division, Cincy will always contend w/ Burrow leading them. Baltimore can never be counted out. Pittsburgh is easily the worst team.
I don't disagree there...but we've been unable to draft a decent WR for decades. Our pass-catchers are Cooper and Njoku and then a bunch of guys who wouldn't even make the roster of the Bengals/Ravens/49ers/Chiefs...let alone play. I think they have to go after a vet WR AND start drafting WRs that look like the Chiefs WRs...fast quick guys who will be a drag to guard when DW4 starts running around in the backfield. (Look at the number of big plays by Mahommes that come in a scramble drill...it's gotta be 80% of his big plays.)
The Bengals have surrounded Burrow with terrific pass-catchers...we'll see what he looks like if T Higgins gets away and/or Boyd gets paid elsewhere. Cooper would be WR3 on that team.
The Ravens are what they are because of their defense. We had a very good defense last year...but the Ravens are so much tougher than we are that it's sad. Lamar wants to be a pocket passer...and he simply isn't. He has as many playoff wins as Baker Mayfield. Playoff teams find a way to hold him down...we've done it too.
If Pittsburgh finds a QB they will be right back in the running. They know how to draft playmakers all throughout the draft and always have a tough defense.
We need to sign an impact WR and draft a guy that fits the mold noted ^ (this is a deep WR class)...and also draft/sign that stud DT. We also need to find a RB in case Nick doesn't get back soon and a #2 TE that makes Bryant a #3...oh....and stop with guys like A Walker at LB. Draft a REAL LB who has size AND speed...not just a great team guy who doubles as a cheerleader.
We can get there...but we have a long way to go. As does most every team in the NFL after a season ends and players move around...retire...get older...get too expensive...etc.
Lastly, none of it matters if DW4 can't get back to form...from many, many years ago.
I agree with the assessment that we need a couple more WR’s a good #2 RB on O. On D another DL that can play the run and get to the passer and a LB that can defend the pass and the run. We need a good 5 impact players and it won’t be easy with the draft capital we have. AB has found solid players for us before and he’ll have to do it again if we expect to have another season like we had and go farther in the playoffs. Of course DW has to play well also.
Our draft capital is weak. Two picks in the top 100.
We have to use some combination of trade, free agent, and draft.
I see two guys who we could possibly trade. Wills and Newsome are guys we could move. Newsome is a good young player. We could get a second for him or a player.
Wills might bring a third or be in a trade deal for another player.
Hard to say how Berry sees this. He has shown reluctance to move players that he drafted.
So you claim the Browns are overpaying for Wills and yet you think some other team will step up and overpay for him and trade a player for him to do it? I'm still not sure where you get your math from. First a team wouldn't give up much of anything for a player with one year left on his contract. Any trade would first require Wills and the team in question reach a long term contract deal before any trade is made. Next, since you think Wills under performs you would have find a team willing to hitch their wagon to Wills in that long term deal. None of this is as simple as you're making it sound. Teams don't give up 3rd round draft picks for a one year, mediocre starter at LT. They don't trade away a sold asset for it either.
When you are able to watch replays of games and rewatch plays over and over again.
You see what happened and how plays are broke down.
You can see how Jones got through.
You can see how the Texans worked away from Myles and how they sped up the release time to nullify his rush. How they game planned Myles. Knowing what he can do.
Jones is a great player. He is great in every game. He held out against the Chiefs. Signed a one year deal. Wants $35+.
He didn't just show up in the Super Bowl and transend to another dimension. He is not the DPOY and he knows that.
You are a smart guy with a strong business background. You continue to try to apply what you have learned to the NFL. It does not work.
Not when it comes to the field of play. Business principals could apply to upper management of the Haslams. They do not apply to the building of the roster, the field of play, or the play of the players.
When it comes to the play of Jones and Garrett; you are out of your league. You see but you have not yet learned nor understand what you are watching.
It is ok. You are new to football and the Browns. I watched Jim Brown play. I have watched and played football since 1960 when I was thirteen.
After the number of years I have watched. I should know. I am not being boastful. I am old and I have studied the game a long time.
It’s not exactly charming to downplay your debating opponent and elevate your own credibility by staple your past history as if what you’re argue is a fact. I know I’m a newbie when it comes to American football and I don’t hide it and that’s why most of my posts are opinions, a view from my perspective.
I’m going to put forward some stats from Cleveland Browns 2023 season.
1. Home and away results. Home 8W-1L Away 3W-5L
2. Results against top teams. vs. Ravens 3-28 @ Ravens 31-33
vs. 49ers 19-17
@ Texans 22-36 @ Texans 45-14 (playoff game)
3. Results in the playoffs. @Texans 45-14
I don’t have to be football expert like you to make conclusions because the results speaks for themselves.
I have a few questions to you.
a) Why is there such a discrepancy between our home and away results? (same players, same pitch, weather is weather) Is it mental? Are our boys homesick and scared playing away? Hostile environment? Food? Flights?
b) against the top teams our results are mix feelings. Our win against 49ers was impressive, they lost a couple of key players but so do we. Our best game of he season was against the Ravens away but why could ‘t we, especially the defense, replicate some of it in the playoffs ?
c) in the playoff game we collapsed. Only coincidence or do you find other reasons except injuries?
Having injuries is in my opinion part of the game. All teams dealing with injuries, bad and good luck, referee inconsistency and things like that. Good organizations deal with it, great team don’t let outside factors affect them to the extend they use them as excuses.
My conclusion, as an amateur and a newbie in this game and not an expert like you, is that most of our inconsistency between home and away results can be included in lack of mental toughness and and not having the right culture that can overcome all adversities. In the playoffs form and talent sometimes goes out of the window and mental toughness becomes an important part to execute to normal or better standard.
"The Browns are currently $19 m over the cap. Wills has a salary cap charge of over $14.5 m and the Browns can save and the Browns can save $12.7 m by trading him. There will undoubtedly be teams out there looking to add a player who could use a change in scenery and perhaps just a new environment all together. Executives all around the league will fire up their old scouting reports on Wills and believe that his best days are still ahead of him at just 25 years old."
I've seen such reports as well. For a sixth rounder. Nothing close to a third rounder you claimed the Browns could get for him. So sure, if you call a six pack and a ham sandwich something you would give away one of our starting OT's for.....
Cleveland trades Jedrick Wills
The Browns can save between $12M-$14.5M in cap space this offseason by trading Wills, depending on the time in which they move him. That amount of cap savings is a pretty big deal and the team can most likely find a suitor who’d be willing to give up something like a 6th-round pick for him. (Editor’s Note: The team values him much higher than this but Matt did say BOLD predictions.)
Yes, a 6th-round pick in return for a former 1st-round selection isn't ideal but it might be worth it to the future of the organization if they can free up that much money. They could even look into moving him during the draft in one of their trade packages to move up.
So you claim the Browns are overpaying for Wills and yet you think some other team will step up and overpay for him and trade a player for him to do it? I'm still not sure where you get your math from. First a team wouldn't give up much of anything for a player with one year left on his contract. Any trade would first require Wills and the team in question reach a long term contract deal before any trade is made. Next, since you think Wills under performs you would have find a team willing to hitch their wagon to Wills in that long term deal. None of this is as simple as you're making it sound. Teams don't give up 3rd round draft picks for a one year, mediocre starter at LT. They don't trade away a sold asset for it either.
To trade with someone the team has to trade someone of some kind of value. Wills has some value but like you said with 1 year remaining on his contract he won't gain the Browns much in a trade besides cap money. I thinkif the Browns have any assists that they may trade this off season Jedrick Wills, Greg Newsome, and Elijah Moore. The yare all young and could bring something back in return. Either cap space or another similar type player at a position of need.
I could see the possibility of these 3 trades.
Jedrick Wills to Patriots for a 6th round pick. Saves 12.7 in cap space and Browns get a late round pick.
Greg Newsome to Broncos for WR Jerry Juedy. Upgrade from Moore as a 2nd or 3rd WR option and Browns can now focus on resigning Martin Emerson
Elijah Moore to Chiefs for a 5th round pick. Replaced on roster by Jerry Juedy and traded for a later round pick.
I've never actually said he couldn't or wouldn't be traded. But as you've suggested they certainly wouldn't get much for him in return. At that point you would have to depend on Conklin who has been severely limited by injuries in two of his last three seasons and was only able to start one game in all of 2023 at the RT position. At some point you have to ask if the juice is worth the squeeze.
When you dig inside the away and home record numbers it is the defense that played poorly.
Most teams have an advantage at home. It is hard to really know the why behind it especially the defense this year.
Crowd noise at home supports the defense. Teams practice for offensive disruption however the home field is still an advantage.
The Browns record against winning teams was 7-4. I threw out the last game against the Bengals. We did not play any starters in a meaningless game. That is a damn good record against winning teams.
The playoff game was a disappointment. I do have to credit the Texans. They had a good game plan and out played us. What was most notable was the pressure on Flacco from the play of our offensive tackles. Playing the third and fourth OT's will get those kinds of results and the turnovers that came with that. The other thing that stood out was they attacked our rookie sub safety Hickman and Newsome the slot corner. The results were big plays given up.
Credit Houston they played well.
Mental toughness is nothing more than a media term. It is not quantifiable and is a meaningless term.
Tell me the plays from every player on the field on offense, defense and special teams when you can see or not see their mental toughness over the 18 games played.
This article was written in January of 2023 before the 2023 season began. Wills still had one year to play on his current deal with the 2023 season contract only costing a team who would consider trading for him $3,296,761. Here it is from your own source.....
Quote
Contract For New Team
2023 - $3,296,761 (fully guaranteed)
2024 - 5th year option worth $13.935m, must be exercised this offseason
The Browns didn't pick up Wills fifth year option until the beginning of May in 2023 which means any team who traded for him before May would not have been obligated for that $13.935m money for 2024 like they would be now. The situation is totally different now than it was then.
When you dig inside the away and home record numbers it is the defense that played poorly.
Most teams have an advantage at home. It is hard to really know the why behind it especially the defense this year.
Crowd noise at home supports the defense. Teams practice for offensive disruption however the home field is still an advantage.
The Browns record against winning teams was 7-4. I threw out the last game against the Bengals. We did not play any starters in a meaningless game. That is a damn good record against winning teams.
The playoff game was a disappointment. I do have to credit the Texans. They had a good game plan and out played us. What was most notable was the pressure on Flacco from the play of our offensive tackles. Playing the third and fourth OT's will get those kinds of results and the turnovers that came with that. The other thing that stood out was they attacked our rookie sub safety Hickman and Newsome the slot corner. The results were big plays given up.
Credit Houston they played well.
Mental toughness is nothing more than a media term. It is not quantifiable and is a meaningless term.
Tell me the plays from every player on the field on offense, defense and special teams when you can see or not see their mental toughness over the 18 games played.
I strongly disagree and btw Michael Jordan, Pat Mahomes, Tom Brady and Novak Djokovic sends their best regards to you.
As a former alpine skier, with a couple years in the Scandinavian Tour, I have first hand experience of mental toughness, or maybe I should say experience of how to not deal with it. Performing when it matters most, to the best of your abilities, is a form of an art and requires a strong self confidence and commitment. Some are born with it and some are not.
I have been to several seminars with active Olympic winners, world championship winners and other top athletes and the mental part of the game is what often separates the very best from the wannabes. One of my country’s most famous athletes, by some ranked as one of the 10 best NHL players of all time, was a monster when it comes to produce in the Stanley Cup’s later rounds, Olympic finals and World championships. We have psychologist who can talk for hours about his mental toughness and what separates him from many other huge talents.
Kobe is famous for his mamba mentality. Do I have to mention Big Mike? You know the guy who’s the golden standard of being the best when it matters most. Maybe you heard about him? Many sports psychologists even mention that when the opponent team hear the first seconds of Alan Parsons Project and the announcer mention Jordan’s name the game is practically over. It’s like standing at the foot of Mount Everest without an oxygen tank.
So stop talking BS about media term. Honestly! WT flying F??
The very best step up when their team needs them. Ask any world class tennis player what’s Djokovic’s biggest strength. Do you think they mention his stamina, even if it’s world class, his backhand crosses, his ability to almost always be inside the lines or what do you think they say?
Listen to Patrick Bet-David’s interview with TB12 and what interested him most. Mental toughness. His winning drives in the Super Bowls. I think Pat Mahames scored in all of his last four drives against the Niners. Mental toughness. The ability to deliver when the pressure is sky high.
What do you call it? A meaningless term or the definition of a mental monster who doesn’t crumble under pressure. You tell me, the amateur, so I can hear first hand from a pro.
There is not some mental toughness faucet to turn on or off.
When you compete it is all in or the competition will be all in and you will lose. You compete at practice to be the starter. You compete in the classroom to learn your assignment. You compete on every play.
The very nature of competition is a mindset.
I ask so you can tell when watching a football game who is mentally tough?
On any given play there is a lot going on. Sometimes a player wins their battle and others lose theirs. Sometimes players get fooled.
Every offensive play is designed to be a touchdown if every player does his job. However, it does not work that way.
So if Mahomes throws a int. did he step up? When Michael misses the shot to win the game was he not mentally tough enough?
When a boxer gets knocked out was it because he was not mentally tough?
Greatness is greatness period. It is more than being more mentally tough.
My daughter graduated from college "magna [censored] laude" after earning a scholarship to college.
She did that while holding down a full time job and being pregnant. She received an MBA going to school at night while holding down a full time job and having a second child.
She will have a doctorate next year while working full time as a single parent.
"The Browns are currently $19 m over the cap. Wills has a salary cap charge of over $14.5 m and the Browns can save and the Browns can save $12.7 m by trading him. There will undoubtedly be teams out there looking to add a player who could use a change in scenery and perhaps just a new environment all together. Executives all around the league will fire up their old scouting reports on Wills and believe that his best days are still ahead of him at just 25 years old."
Local, obscure blog The Factory of Sadness is hardly a "local news report."
Everything I have read from local beat reporters is that Jedrick Wills is well thought of inside the building in Berea. Wills had a top 10 pass-block win rate last year. He's not going anywhere.
You just named a bunch of sports athletes that either: control the game by having the ball in their hand (QBs, bball, hockey) or play a sport where it's just a single player (or duos - tennis).
Its more technical than this, but the bottom line: Basketball - get the ball to your star, let him do his thing Hockey - get the puck to your star, let him do his thing
As for football, it's 11 on 11 with two different sides of the ball. As for Brady, Mahomes these are guys controlling the game by having the ball in their hands every snap. They are/were superstars at their position.
Basketball and Football are definitely not comparable. Sure they are team games, however it's not close to the same.
REPORT: Browns QB Deshaun Watson Could Be Facing Additional Punishment From The NFL 19 hours ago by Darrelle Lincoln
Deshaun Watson famously had to fend off lawsuits filed by 22 women who allege that Watson sexually assaulted them during private massage sessions when he was the quarterback of the Houston Texans.
Watson’s representatives offered each woman $100,000 to settle but not all of the women agreed. Watson settled 23 of 26 sexual misconduct lawsuits.
Just when you thought things were over, more information came out this week.
Watson may be forced to add something to his offseason schedule as the lawyer for the plaintiff in a sexual misconduct lawsuit against Watson petitioned the court on Feb. 6 to force the Browns quarterback to give an in-person deposition by Aug. 1.
The plaintiff’s attorney has highlighted that the original deposition was cut short due to instructions from Watson’s attorney, Rusty Hardin, not to answer certain questions about other cases filed against him.
According to court documents, the plaintiff seeks to compel Watson’s re-deposition to ensure proper discovery and obtain crucial answers.
"Plaintiff seeks an order from this Court compelling the re-deposition of Defendant Watson in order to propound allowable discovery and have such answers produced,” stated lawyer David Bickham in the court filing.
Watson has remained steadfast in denying all allegations against him.
Two Texas grand juries declined to indict Watson on criminal charges. Despite that, he served an 11-game suspension and paid a $5 million fine for violating the NFL’s personal-conduct policy.
In six starts for Cleveland after the suspension, he threw for 1,102 yards, seven touchdowns, and five interceptions.
In six games played during the 2023 season, Watson amassed 1,115 passing yards and seven touchdowns. Watson’s season ended early as he underwent season-ending surgery to repair a broken bone in his throwing shoulder.
Excuse me your Royal Highness, I've moved the post per your command. I will add that IMHO, Watson's court issues and any NFL discipline has everything to do with the question of "how can the Browns become a SB team?" In fact, there's no less than 10 posts in this thread mentioning Watson from health to play to availability to pay. Pretty sure this news note falls within those other posts and has everything to do with the Browns becoming a Super Bowl team or at least Haslam bet 230M on that! Hey, but you do what you do,
Stay healthy, build a new stadium, get celebrities interested in the team, pay the Refs.
Nobody wins without the Refs in the modern era. You used to be able to dominate the other team into submission even with some bad Ref calls. Now the teams have so much talent almost every game comes down to who they favor.
I don't mean that in a "they pick them in a conspiracy" kinda way. That would be so complicated and messy. I just mean like how Michael Jordan got every call. The "Superstar calls" I think they're referred to in the NBA. In the NFL it's a bit trickier to earn, but totally doable over time with enough money.
Newsome is a good player. To his credit he did what the team asked him to do. But the numbers point to trading him.
He is an asset and should be leveraged in the best possible way.
Difficult decisions to be made this off season. I agree with the article except IMHO, a late 3rd round pick might be the ceiling for Newsome at this point since he is basically only under contract for 2024. Future money wise, it again makes sense since 12M+ for the option year or a multi-year extension seems a little high for a slot corner and having Mitchel. The savings is minimal though with only $2,398,467 in salary in 2024 offset by the $1,657,955 that will be levied in dead money because of the prorated bonus money being still applied to the Browns for "kicking the can down the road" netting only $740,512 savings to the cap for unloading a 1st round pick in Newsome in 2024. Interesting to see if Berry is betting on a comp pick for Newsome if he refuses the option year allowing him to walk in 2025. Of course, that's a gamble but may be more lucrative, I just don't know.