DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump starts the Appeals process

I don't know if this just for show or if he got someone to put up the bond. My understanding he needs the whole $454 Million + 20%. I may have the 20% thing wrong.. Not sure and don't feel like looking it up. Do we need to follow the money to see who's fronting him the money? Saudis? Putin? or what banks he's taking out loans from? What properties is he putting up as collateral? should be fun to watch.

It will be interesting to see what the appeals court says about Engoron. He was and I guess still is a well respected judge. There is always a chance that an appeal will work I guess, but based on what this article is saying, I don't see it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-fraud-case-appeal-454-million-new-york/

Former President Donald Trump on Monday officially began the process of appealing the historic $454 million judgment against him in his New York civil fraud case, a figure that is growing by more than $100,000 in interest every day.

In order to qualify for an automatic stay of the judgment as the appeal proceeds, Trump must fork over the entire amount as bond, known in the New York civil court system as an "undertaking."

Trump has not posted the bond, according to a spokesperson for New York Attorney General Letitia James. The spokesperson declined to comment on the appeal.

Trump attorney Clifford Robert summarized the issues Trump and other defendants will press on appeal in a pair of notices filed Monday morning. They have asked the Appellate Division, First Department — part of New York's second-highest court — to consider whether Judge Arthur Engoron "committed errors of law and/or fact, abused [his] discretion, and/or acted in excess of [his] jurisdiction" when overseeing the case.

In addition to the massive financial sanction, Engoron's Feb. 16 decision enjoined the defendants from seeking loans from any financial institution registered with New York state for three years. He also barred Trump and two executives from serving on the board of directors of any company in the state for the same amount of time, and imposed the same penalty on his sons Donald Jr. and Eric for two years. The ruling called for the installation of an independent director of compliance at the Trump Organization and continued oversight by an independent monitor.

Trump and the defendants are appealing all sanctions in Engoron's ruling.

"We trust that the Appellate Division will overturn this egregious fine and take the necessary steps to restore the public faith in New York's legal system," Trump attorney Alina Habba said in a statement to CBS News.

Engoron's 92-page ruling was one of the largest corporate sanctions in New York history. The judge found that Trump and others were liable for a decade of frauds that "leap off the page and shock the conscience."

He ordered $354 million in disgorgement, the amount of "ill-gotten gains" they made through a scheme to use fraudulent valuations of properties and Trump's net worth to land favorable loans and insurance terms. That figure jumps more than $100 million with years of interest factored in. Experts say it is unlikely Trump will be able to use funds from his presidential campaign to cover any of the judgment.

"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological," Engoron wrote. "They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again."

Engoron concluded that Trump and other defendants submitted "blatantly false financial data" to accountants, who compiled financial statements based on those falsehoods that were submitted to lenders and insurers.

"When confronted at trial with the statements, defendants' fact and expert witnesses simply denied reality, and defendants failed to accept responsibility or to impose internal controls to prevent future recurrences," Engoron wrote.
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Graham Kates

Graham Kates is an investigative reporter covering criminal justice, privacy issues and information security for CBS News Digital. Contact Graham at KatesG@cbsnews.com or grahamkates@protonmail.com

First published on February 26, 2024 / 12:16 PM EST

Never admitting guilt. It’s a sad pattern.

If he does not put up bond, the AG will be able in 30 days to begin seizing property.

I suspect he'll put up the bond, but where is he going to get the money? Follow the money....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianb...eets-from-investigators/?sh=7f5cb4445176

Looking at this entire plot to stay in power no matter what is proof trump is a wanna be dictator.

The constitution, the idea of a democracy, the protection of the voter's rights none of that matters. Power corrupts absolutely.

trump is absolutely corrupt.

Trump is unable to make $464 million bond in civil fraud case, his lawyers tell court
Kara Scannell
By Kara Scannell, CNN
1 minute read
Updated 10:59 AM EDT, Mon March 18, 2024



Republican presidential candidate former President Donald Trump in Nashville, Tennessee in February.
Republican presidential candidate former President Donald Trump in Nashville, Tennessee in February. Jon Cherry/Getty Images
CNN
—
Former President Donald Trump can’t find an insurance company to underwrite his bond to cover the massive judgment against him in the New York attorney general’s civil fraud case, his lawyers told a New York appeals court.

Trump’s attorneys said he has approached 30 underwriters to back the bond, which is due by the end of this month.

“The amount of the judgment, with interest, exceeds $464 million, and very few bonding companies will consider a bond of anything approaching that magnitude,” Trump’s lawyers wrote. (Trump himself was fined $454 million; the $464 million includes the disgorgement for his adult sons Don Jr. and Eric.)


An insurance broker, Gary Giuletti, who testified for Trump during the civil fraud trial, signed an affidavit stating that securing a bond in the full amount “is a practical impossibility.”

Potential underwriters are seeking cash to back the bond, not properties, according to Trump’s lawyers.

Trump’s lawyers have asked the appeals court to delay posting the bond until his appeal of the case is over, arguing that the value of Trump’s properties far exceed the judgment.

This story is breaking and will be updated.

Oh …. isn’t he a multi billionaire? A measly half a billion should be peanuts for a multi billionaire. And in reality, trump’s past is the reason he can’t secure the bond, not the amount of it.

Do not pass go. Go directly to jail.

My thoughts exactly. He just answered the question of "How do you know a grifter is a grifter?"

I chuckled a little bit at this. It makes sense when you consider the underlying merits of what the original fraud case was about.

Of course, properties that have leans on them loose value exponentially.

I think it must be about the lack of equity involved with the properties. I've never heard of anyone that wouldn't take property as collateral if you had enough equity in the properties to cover the loan/bond. From just a realistic perspective he must owe as much on many of his properties as they're "actually" worth. If his pattern of the past is consistent, he tried to put them up as a bond at inflated prices to try and claim he had more equity than he actually had and they called him on his BS.

All trump has to do is sell one property for the exorbitant value he claims it is worth and he has an appeal for the NY fraud case.

It's gotta be a sign that he is currently in the middle of the 'find out' phase.

So all the magas are going to see he is not the multi billionaire he says he is and has lied to them. So they will realize they have been played and withdraw their support ?

Why do that when they can just double-down instead?

Oh right... Pelosi wont let him pay!!!! He has the money!!! Its the democrats fault!!!!

Sorry guys. The replies by the same people border on perverse.

His lawyers have said, I think in a court filing, that they contacted over 30 bond providers. None of them want property as collateral. They only want cash. My understanding is that he would need 1 billion in cash as collateral. Even if he were as wealthy as he has said he is, he doesn't have that kinda liquid cash. Again, I've not read this, just heard it on the news, but my understanding is that the Trump team has filed some kind of motion that would allow him to appeal without putting up the bond.

I'm not thinking that will work but I guess we'll see.

Perverse? That’s rich coming from a Trump supporter. Peen, your opinions and $8 will get you a cup of starbucks… without the cash, you get nada. Not even a listener.

*comments on Peen's post by telling him nobody is listening to him*

Comments on your post saying SO WHAT?

My understanding from it is if they don't get a bond or cough up the cash by next Monday, the judgement moves forward and NY can start looking at remedies for the cost of the award.
trump is asking that the appeal moves forward with either a greatly reduced bond amount (he cites other cases that this has happened) or the appeal moves forward with no bond at all, cause his properties cover the cost of any judgement. But that is before there are any liens against them, and that is actual appraised cost, not trump appraised cost.

From Wiki-Wells Fargo & Co., the master servicer of the $100 million mortgage loan Trump took out in 2012,[141] placed the tower on a debt watch list in September 2021 because its average occupancy had fallen to 78.9% from 85.9% at the end of 2020. Revenue was $33.7 million in 2020, $7.5 million in the first quarter of 2021.[142] By early 2024, Gucci was the only large retailer in the tower's retail atrium, which had once contained up to 60 stores.[143] Another analysis, publicized in February of the same year, found that the average per-square-foot cost of a condominium at Trump Tower had nearly halved from 2013 to early 2024.[144][145] The decline in condo prices was attributed to competition from newer towers nearby, the age of the building, and the protests that regularly occurred outside it.[144]


Daman, there are a couple other ways he could do the bond. You correctly stated cash, he could also get a equity loan himself against his properties, or he could put up stock/bonds, etc as colleterial. I am not sure if he could use the ownership of truth social as colleterial. I keep hearing if that deal goes through with the anticipated value of his in that venture would be worth about 4 billion. The sale is being held up as there are business partners suing trump, and he would not be able to cash his shares for 6 months after the sale anyway-I don't understand why he couldn't put them up to secure the bond.

My guess on the whole deal, he told the court a week out that he can't secure the bond in the hopes he gets the bond reduced. In reality, he doesn't want half a billion dollars bound up for a year or two while he keeps appealing to get the cost down, but doesn't want to pay the interest, and doesn't want the judgement to move forward.

I think that pretty much covers what I saw and read. But I did think I read that they don't want collateral at all... ONLY cash, so I think that would also leave Truth Social out of the mix. (I'm not sure that actually has that much value either by the way) Man the interest on that bond alone, should he even be able to get one, would be tough. Really Tough.,

If the judges decision breaks his way, he'll appeal, if not, I don't know for sure what he can do. I just don't think he has the money to do it for Cash.

He would have to get it somewhere else.. Maybe Russia, Maybe Orbon (sp) or perhaps his son in law, Musk, Putin. Perhaps even the saudi's.. Not sure. Also, he has a partner in a property in Las Vegas. Maybe if his partner were to buy him out, that might raise enough...Again, just not sure. That Vegas property may have been over valued and if so, what does that mean for him?

My hope is that the Judge doesn't see it his way and tells him to put up of shut up...That way they can start foreclosing on his properties.

I have no problem with you as a person, 'peen. In many ways (I would even say many of the more important topics) I'd even say we actually agree. Just want to preface what I'm about to say with that honest statement.

Going to bat for Trump while clutching pearls really don't go hand-in-hand. It sounds weak. You're talking about a guy that has consistently shown there is no low he won't stoop to for even the most insignificant W. That's the kind of person he is, so trying to drum up outrage over comments regarding his record-setting judgement and his inability to pay (and the irony of not being able to put up his criminally over-valued properties as collateral) is just not going to hit the mark.

Fairly typical response from you.

You wanna talk perverse, Try following a person that thinks that our military are stupid people who fight or die or get wounded or get captured in battle. That's perverse.

If that's how you have decided to define comments you don't like so be it. But for the most part they are true. To be a multi billionaire you must have a combination of liquid and other assets that in combination adds up to that total. A self described real estate mogul and multi billionaire should be able to come up with less than half a billion in assets and funds with which to make that bond. If not he is most likely lying about being a multi billionaire. I have no idea what you find perverse about that. Maybe it's some of the hyperbole blended in?

lmao bro this crap is hilarious

The "actions speak louder than words" axiom rears its ugly head.

Saw that he’s trying to stop the posting of cash by crying it’s unreasonable and he can’t find anyone willing to front him the bond. Hopefully, in the next week or two, they start taking his property and assets. Just desserts.

Quit. Like you know what the hell you are talking about.

Just shut up.

I have 2 commas in my account. Do you?

I am not putting you down, but I don't think you know how money works or how liquidity works.

Stay in the lane.


I will admit, I don't have 3 commas, so I don't have a clue how that works. Long way from 3 commas.

Very few Billionaires can come up with a 1/2 a billion on short notice. (musk, gates, bezos, buffett etc.) If they're smart, it's invested in something that may take a more than a moment to get the cash out. Trumps lawyers say they went to over 30 bond companies and nobody wanted the deal with Real estate as collateral. (saw a funny meme with Tom Selleck saying, "It's called a reverse mortgage LOL) I'm not sure if that means they don't trust the valuation of Trumps holdings or if they are too highly leveraged or they just don't want to mess with his holdings. That's messy business.

So it's cash or nothing. Or so it appears.

So what are his options? Get the court to modify the amount or remove the need for the bond? Get someone or group of someones to put up the cash for him? It's not an easy situation to deal with for any person, including a person of means. But it's like the theme to the old Starsky and Hutch TV show says, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"! In this case it's don't do the crime if you can't pay the bill!

lol…Man o Man…the GOP is so weak, they won’t even bail out their own front runner. Meanwhile with the only chance to win they kicked Nikki to the curb. LOL GOPers beating themselves again.

Whispers of trump in panic mode. Possible bankruptcy? DT’s wealth was always a bad joke he made up.

I gotta preface what I'm about to say with 2 things.

1. I'm biased... I think Trump is guilty of the meat of what he's in court for right now and am looking forward to consequences to bad actors (and to the whattabouts... well, we gotta start somewhere).
2. I have no idea how this all works (posting bond), and don't see the need to find out as I don't plan on needing it. My assumption is that, at its core, it's an extremely expensive loan due to the the higher risk of non-payment (bail bonds in general).

What I find interesting is the "we scoured the land and found nobody willing to post the bond". These guys (bail bonds) are in business to make money... and the fact that nobody (allegedly) is looking to post bond is NOT a good look for Trump for multiple reasons (lack of acceptable assets and/or fear of him snaking his way out of payment).

What I wonder is if this is all just a play by Trump's legal team. They didn't really try to find someone that could/would post the bond so they could come crying back to the judge.

You either have the assets or you don't. trump brags abut all of the properties he owns and how rich he is. If he doesn't have the assets to back that up he's lying...... again. I wish some of you would stop making stupid excuses for him.

And again, that's all they got is excuses.

Remember it was only a short time ago that trump said he had over $400 million and he said it was growing substantially all the time. Something is a lie there. Does he actually have over $400 Million cash or was that a lie.

You guys talking about who has what number of commas doesn't mean a thing because neither of you ever bragged about having that money in cash.



Just remember, These are his words.. Not mine, not MSM, Trumps own words. Unless those that excuse him are gonna tell me he never said it and that it was AI generated.

Trump already tried that with something recently, don't remember what it was.

A good post. It's fair, but I don't agree with the last comment.


It's a BS ruling. I am not even commenting on whether it is a matter of guilt. More about the way it is set. The judge could have put a lien on something. Heck, the judge valued his home in in Palm Beach at $18 million. One acre lots sell for $20 mil on the ocean. His is like 25 . It's crazy.
No doubt NY is doing everything they can to ramrod this guy to the ground.

Like him or not, everybody should be concerned with what is happening here. It's blood thirst. The deep state is real and you should be concerned. You can't seize propertry after 30 days. In the courts it can take years.

Heck, look at California. They are trying to say you can't move out of the state without saying you won't owe taxes for years in the future

Call me old fashioned, but this is America. You can live wherever you want or do business wherever you want. Now California is trying to hold people and business hostage.

WTF?

So if Trump supporters donate their money to help pay his bill, and he wins appeal, do they get their money back? Or does Trump keep that, as well?

Why would you care who I give money to or if I get it back?? I don't care what you do with your money except that you seem ingrained in to that and we have talked about on several occasions in PM's. I care about what you do in the sense that you succeed, but in the end you make your own decisions.

I don't like Trump, but I don't like what the left is doing. It's dangerous.

You mean protecting democracy? fixing the economy? Or letting brown people in? Or maybe you want to keep your local potholes and hate the infrastructure deal?

And I know you hate that Biden wiped out student loans for public servants. I just can’t figure out how helping others hurts you financially, because I know all you really care about is you and your money. Sad part is, the only connection I see is taxes and you feel like every penny you pay in taxes goes to handouts, because that’s what pewople like you tend to think. You, Eve, and MGT.

I think he's speaking more to the Trump-side rather than the donor-side, the core question being will Trump give the bond money back or will he keep it in that hypothetical.

I think I am coincidently more in line with the conclusion that you gave, though. IMHO, if people are willing to donate money to a guy who was just found liable for fraud, to essentially pay for the judgment finding him liable for fraud, and expect to get their money back, well then I don't know what to tell them...