DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump starts the Appeals process

Jc

Just so we’re clear here, conservatives no longer care about presidents maintaining direct control over their businesses while in office, correct?

Let’s DJT stock at least maintains its valuation and continues into the future. Republican voters are gonna be cool with a guy running the country and maintaining his stock price at the same time?

Just wondering.cause we all hated Bezos for owning the Washington post, and I don’t think any conservatives would be cool if he maintained that and became president at the same time.

I don't know. The state sets the assessed value. If he overvalued the property and the state used that valuation, he would have paid more in taxes.

In your situation the country, state tax assessor sends you a notice every few years letting you know your new assessed value. They don't let you give them the figure, and if you did, you would probably undervalue the property.

For them the rules no longer apply. Family values no longer apply. Honesty no longer applies. Criminal activity no longer applies. What you point out, an obvious conflict of interest no longer applies. I think we have gotten to the point he really could go out on 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and not lose any votes.

Banks have a duty to do their own due diligence when loaning money.

None had a problem with the valuations when lending the money. All the banks were paid on time. For them it was good business.

Come on man, you are a smart guy sounding stupid.

So the fact that banks should do their own evaluations or are paid back excuse submitting fraudulent loan applications? Is it somehow then not fraud? Does reporting an apartment is three times its actual size not a fraudulent statement on a loan application?

It’s a white collar crime to lie on a loan app. Punishable up to 30 years in prison according to the FBI. Yeah yea we know…The party of criminal activity doesn’t prosecute and excuses their own crimes.

That's your answer? Hypocrisy??

You're certainly a special kind of special.

You
Do
Pay
Property
Taxes
Based
On
The
Value
Of
The
Property
Which
Could
Change
Your
Overall
Stated
Value.

More

Do you call your county auditor and tell them what your property value is, or do they tell you?


I could teach cats to drive a train quicker than this.

So lying on a loan application by inflating your worth isn't a crime? That isn't defined as fraud under the criminal code?

As if trump has never paid off a public official or paid out hush money. You crack me up. Ignoring white collar crimes and such. But not surprised.

Banks have a fiduciary responsibility to due due diligence, that does not change the fact that the loan applicant has a legal responsibility to be truthful on the loan application.

I don't know if banks have a legal responsibility to perform due diligence.

It almost sounds as if they're trying to blame the banks for the fact that trump submitted fraudulent loan applications.

I'm not ignoring anything. You and yours are moving the goalposts now that you've lost another argument. Also known as "Tuesday".

So lying on a loan application by inflating your worth isn't a crime? That isn't defined as fraud under the criminal code?

Go ahead and explain what that has to do with the property tax argument I was having with Peter, Paul and Mary and I'll answer the question.

Lol, you okay, bud? Yeah, I am NOT saying that is what happened. It was food for thought. I don't even know if it's possible, but trying to look for plausible scenarios on a global level.

While it isn't about that particular portion of the topic it is most certainly relevant to the topic itself. As of now I haven't seen you comment on the actual charges themselves. The ongoing theme to this point by many has been they are "picking on trump", "There are no victims" and "Everybody does it". So I'm simply looking to see where you stand in regards to what he did repeatedly being a crime or not.

I'm not a part of the claim that trump set his own property values in regards to their value on his tax returns. But I'm most certainly a part of the claim that you can't take what you report on your property value on your taxes and over inflate those values and even the size of the property for personal gain in applying for loans. You can't claim a value that is multiples of what you claim the property to be worth just a short time ago on your taxes.

Am I okay?

Yes. Fought off all the boneheaded statements and lies, now I'm to the part I'll just be written off as a dirty, dirty, MAGA fascist Trump supporter... for stating facts that are as clear as black and white. Wait, back-up, first I'll have to dodge moving goalposts and snide remarks about what kind of person I am. Again, for stating 100% facts.

How is your day going?

trump has cheated on all three of his wives and had to pay off a porn star. Family values no longer apply. Trump has been proven over and over again to be a habitual liar. Honesty no longer applies. Having ownership in a huge corporation while being president is why no president before trump has done this. It's an obvious conflict of interest. A conflict of interest no longer applies. He has obviously have been found to have committed criminal activity by committing fraud on loan documents repeatedly over a long period of time. Criminal activity no longer applies.

It's not my fault you're trying to blame me just because you're in denial. Speaking of being a smart guy who sounds stupid.

I've commented on all of those things numerous times in this thread. You've even responded to some of those comments.

I have seen you use many of the repeated convenient excuses for his actions but nowhere have I seen you state whether you believe the things he did were fraudulent or not. If you don't wish to answer that question it's just fine. But by every legal standard his actions constitute fraud. I was simply wondering if beyond the excuses for such a thing if you were willing to admit that or not.

Yes. By legal standard, his actions constitute fraud.

Thanks for your reply.

Exactly what and anarchist would say. See, I figured you out. You don’t like Trump any mpre than me, you just want the government to fail.

For you and Fate: I know taxes are assessed by the local government, but Trump was more than happy with the low assessments, probably argued about some being worth less, BUT he never pulled out the numbers or loans he had from banks when paying taxes… And Fate IS FAKE NEWS ANARCHIST STYLE.

I'm an anarchist because you have no clue what you're talking about.


Daman was way more entertaining... after realizing he had no chance of spitting out a fact he just screamed "Hypocrisy!". 🤣

You two could have your own reality show, but that would be taking work away from farm animals.

Enjoy your L. Again... and again... and again... and again.

Haven't checked this forum out much recently. I'm traveling and enjoying a steak and glass of Malbec and playing catch up ...

On trump and his alleged financial fraud.... I thought (and this is from a year plus ago) that he systematically over inflated values.for loan applications and under inflated them for tax purposes. Is that pretty much accepted ?

So the only questions I think would be relevant ...

> Did trump initiate or know? I would imagine yes - jmo.
> does it matter if he knew? No. Otherwise every high powered exec could claim ignorance for any paperwork submitted on.their behalf by a third party.
> is trump being given special attention for.something others would not be prosecuted for? ... again imo no, not when its this scale. From memory the same district has prosecuted others for the same or v similar offenses . Not lots because its not a common occurrence but there is precedence.

So... what am I missing? Certainly not an expert or infallible .

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...gU0.qLiZ.V1eg19RCY95g&smid=url-share

$254.1 million

in donations

Various Trump accounts

$107 million

in legal expenses


How Trump Moved Money to Pay $100 Million in Legal Bills
By Molly Cook Escobar, Albert Sun and Shane Goldmacher March 27, 2024
Since leaving office in 2021, former President Donald J. Trump has spent more than $100 million on lawyers and other costs related to fending off various investigations, indictments and his coming criminal trials, according to a New York Times review of federal records.

The remarkable sum means that Mr. Trump has averaged more than $90,000 a day in legal-related costs for more than three years — none of it paid for with his own money.

Instead, the former president has relied almost entirely on donations made in an attempt to fight the results of the 2020 election.

Now, those accounts are nearly drained, and Mr. Trump faces a choice: begin to pay his own substantial legal fees or find another way to finance them.

November 2020 to Early 2021
Mr. Trump raised a staggering $254 million online from Nov. 4, 2020, the day after the election, to President Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20, 2021, as he urged supporters to fuel an “election defense fund.”


$254.1 million

in donations

Save

America PAC

Trump 2020

Committee

$15.6

million

$15.6 million

in legal expenses


The New York Times
The contributions came so quickly that on Nov. 9, Mr. Trump formed a new political action committee, Save America, to store all the cash.

Only a fraction of the money, however, went toward recounts and other legal challenges to the election. Some went to Mr. Trump’s lawyers during his second impeachment, related to the Jan. 6 riot.

But Mr. Trump banked much of the cash.

Rest of 2021
Mr. Trump started to use the money to fund his post-presidential political operation and what would eventually become his sprawling legal teams. In February, Trump renamed his 2020 committee to “MAGA PAC.”


$94.9 million

in donations

Save

America PAC

MAGA

PAC

$10.6

million

$295,800

$10.9 million

in legal expenses


The New York Times
By the end of 2021, Save America, which continued to bring in new donations, held a substantial portion of Mr. Trump’s fund-raising: $105 million.

2022
Both Save America and MAGA PAC spent significantly in 2022 on legal bills and other related expenses. The House held its public Jan. 6 hearings. The F.B.I. searched Mar-a-Lago for missing classified documents in August. His legal fees rose.

Mr. Trump spent about $27.2 million on legal-related costs for the year.


$84.6 million

in donations

Save

America PAC

MAGA

Super PAC

MAGA

PAC

$10.5

million

$16.7

million

$60.0 million

$27.2 million

in legal expenses


The New York Times
As Mr. Trump prepared to announce his 2024 run late in 2022, he faced a quandary: His PAC could not directly spend money to elect him as president. So Save America transferred $60 million to a pro-Trump super PAC called MAGA Inc.

2023
Save America began 2023 with $18.3 million. But Mr. Trump’s legal expenses were about to soar. He was first indicted in March 2023 in New York. Three other indictments followed.

Mr. Trump spent close to $60 million on legal and investigation-related costs — which included his lawyers, a document-production company and an expert witness in Trump’s New York civil fraud case.


$104.2 million

in donations

Save

America PAC

MAGA

Super PAC

Trump 2024

Committee

MAGA

PAC

$11.3

million

$11.8 million

$42.3 million

$48.0

million

$59.3 million

in legal expenses


The New York Times
Early last year, Mr. Trump made a change to bring more money into Save America, the PAC that was paying his legal expenses. At first, one cent of every dollar he raised online went to Save America; the rest went to his 2024 campaign. But with Save America short of cash to pay lawyers, he increased that to 10 percent.

It was still not enough. By June 2023, Save America had less than $4 million on hand. In an unusual move, Mr. Trump asked his super PAC for a refund of the $60 million he had given just months earlier, so that Save America could continue paying for his legal expenses.

By the end of 2023, more than $42 million had been returned from his super PAC to Save America.

2024
With his first trial looming — in the New York case related to hush-money payments to a porn star in 2016 — Mr. Trump’s legal costs continued to rise. He spent at least $9.7 million in January and February.


Save

America PAC

MAGA

Super PAC

Trump 2024

Committee

MAGA

PAC

$900,000

$10.0 million

$9.7

million

At least $9.7 million

in legal expenses


The New York Times
The more than $100 million in legal spending since leaving office does not include spending from Mr. Trump's 2024 campaign, which has not paid for his personal legal bills. The use of donations to pay for his personal lawyers has been allowed under federal rules.

To cover the ongoing legal costs, his super PAC refunded an additional $10 million in January and February. But there is now only $7.75 million left to refund. Save America had less than $4 million at the end of February, when accounting for unpaid debts.

The Trump team has said the Republican National Committee won’t pay his legal bills. But his new shared fund-raising agreement with the party directs a portion of donations to his Save America PAC before the party itself.

Still, the account paying Mr. Trump’s legal bills will most likely be out of money by summer at the current spending pace.

Then, Mr. Trump will have to decide: Whose money will he use to pay his lawyers?

Methodology

Data comes from filings made with the FEC since 2020 for: Trump’s 2020 campaign committee (which was renamed Make America Great Again PAC); Trump’s 2024 campaign committee; the leadership PAC Save America; the Make America Great Again Inc super PAC; the joint fund-raising committees Trump Make America Great Again Committee and Trump Save America Joint Fundraising Committee; the fundraising platform WinRed.

Legal costs were tallied from all expenditures matching the term “legal” and certain expenditures matching the terms “document” and “research,” which were determined to be related to ongoing legal cases and investigations. The figure for 2024 includes legal debts incurred by Save America in 2024, which were outstanding at the end of February.

Yearly donations were calculated online donations reported by WinRed for the 2020 and 2024 Trump campaigns, Trump-aligned leadership committees and Trump-controlled joint fund-raising committees.

Source: Federal Election Commision

Additional research by Andrew Fischer, Bea Malsky and Rachel Shorey.

Correction: March 29, 2024
An earlier version of this article misstated the subject of House hearings related to Donald Trump in 2022. The House held public hearings on the Jan. 6 riot, not impeachment hearings, in 2022.

No wonder lawyers want to work for this POS. The American public is paying his bills. An endless resource for them.

Jc

Somebody please make sure I’m getting this right. Everybody is focused on the dollar amount, but Trump was actually misrepresenting the total square footage of his properties to secure certain loan amounts, correct?

So if a property was say, 15,000 square feet, but he stated it was 30,000 sq ft to get a larger loan, that’s what he was doing?

That’s fraud, right?

It’s only fraud if you have a “D” attached to your name according to GOPers. But yeah fraud, it’s a white collar crime punishable up to 30 years of imprisonment according to the FBI. But that’s fake news according to GOPers. Just watch.

It was enough to merit fraud via summary judgment.

There is an argument as far as damages go that the loans were paid off in full, but the counter argument to that, from what I’m seeing, is that the higher valued collateral also served to lower interest rates on the loans, which is a big no-no.

Saying an 11k sq. foot apartment is over 30k sq. feet is obviously falsifying loan documents which clearly constitutes fraud. Falsifying loan documents in and of itself constitutes fraud.

10,996 sq ft.
There was over 200 different instances from the filing where they say trump and the other defendants did something wrong. That was one of them.

I snipped a few paragraphs from the AG Filing on some other ones. There also is an article at the end of the filing on Seven Springs, another property he based the value on "future" possibilities that he never was able to complete

From the AG Filing;

They also issued statements that were in blatant violation of generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) in the United States, despite representing that the statements were prepared in accordance with these principles. They ignored the most basic rules and standards for financial reporting, including:

Representing that Mr. Trump had cash on hand that he did not;
Ignoring critical restrictions that would significantly lower property values when setting valuations;
Changing the methodology used to value properties from year to year, without reason or notice;
Using vastly different methods to value different properties even in the same year; and
Including intangible items, such as brand premiums, when calculating an asset’s value, despite representing in the statements that such items were not included.
Values of Properties and Other Assets Presented in the Statements Were Fraudulent, Misleading, and Not Presented in Accordance with GAAP

In the 214-page complaint, which is the culmination of our investigation that included more than 65 witness interviews and review of millions of pages of documents, OAG lays out dozens of examples of this fraudulent activity and how Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization routinely and intentionally misvalued assets to further enrich Mr. Trump. The complaint includes fraudulent conduct across more than 23 different properties and other assets owned by Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization. Some examples of this misconduct include:

Trump Tower Triplex:

Valuations of this property relied on objectively false numbers to calculate property values. For example, Mr. Trump’s own triplex apartment in Trump Tower was valued as being 30,000 square feet when it was 10,996 square feet. As a result, in 2015 the apartment was valued at $327 million in total, or $29,738 per square foot. That price was absurd given the fact that at that point only one apartment in New York City had ever sold for even $100 million, at a price per square foot of less than $10,000, and that sale was in a newly built, ultra-tall tower. In 30 year-old Trump Tower, the record sale at that time was a mere $16.5 million at a price of less than $4,500 per square foot.

Trump Park Avenue:

This property is included as an asset on Mr. Trump’s Statement of Financial Condition from 2011 to 2021 with values ranging between $90.9 million and $350 million. Unsold residential condominium units owned by Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization represented the lion’s share of reported value for this property (in excess of 95% in some years). Reported values of the unsold residential units of the Trump Park Avenue building were significantly higher than the internal valuations used by the Trump Organization for business planning and failed to account for the fact that many units were rent stabilized. For example, an outside, bank-ordered appraisal in 2010 valued the 12 rent-stabilized at $750,000 total. Yet, in the 2011 and 2012 statements, the rent-stabilized apartments at Trump Park Avenue were valued as market rate for nearly $50 million total. In July 2020, the Trump Organization received an appraisal with a value of $84.5 million but on the 2020 Statement the Trump Organization valued Trump Park Avenue at $135.8 million.

40 Wall Street:

The Trump Organization owns a ground lease at 40 Wall Street, meaning it holds a leasehold interest in the land and buildings on the land, but pays rent to the owner. The Trump Organization received a bank-ordered appraisal for the commercial property at 40 Wall Street that calculated a value for the property of $220 million as of November 1, 2012. Yet in the statement that year and the next year (2013), 40 Wall Street was valued at $527 million and $530 million—more than twice the value calculated by the independent, professional appraisers. Even more egregiously, those increased valuations were attributed to information obtained from the same professional appraiser who valued the building at just over $200 million.

In 2015, the Trump Organization replaced the existing loan on the building with a loan from Ladder Capital Finance (working with Mr. Weisselberg’s son, a director there). The Ladder loan was approved based in part on an inflated appraisal prepared by Cushman & Wakefield. Ultimately, the final appraisal for the loan came to a valuation of $540 million through a number of unreasonable adjustments, including reducing costs and changing the assumptions concerning the ground lease. Even this increase was not enough for Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization. The 2015 statement, which was compiled in June, valued the building at $735.4 million — over 35% higher than the already inflated $540 million Cushman appraisal of that same date which the company knew about.

Vornado Partnership:

Mr. Trump’s statements misrepresented his holdings of cash, cash equivalent, and marketable securities. Most notably, for several years, included in his “cash” were the amounts in the Vornado Partnership Interests in which Mr. Trump had a minority stake and did not control. In some years these restricted funds accounted for almost one-third of all the cash reported by Mr. Trump. For example, they accounted for $24 million of the total $76 million in cash reported for 2018. Mr. Trump was well aware of the restricted and limited nature of his 30% interest because he personally took part in extensive, contentious litigation regarding these partnerships in which control over partnership-held cash and partnership business choices were expressly addressed.

Clubs:

The statements do not list separate values for each of Mr. Trump’s club facilities. Instead, the values for those properties are lumped together into a single figure. This was done intentionally to conceal significant swings in the value attributed to individual clubs and to conceal the methods used to arrive at those values. This lump sum figure was by far the largest asset value on Mr. Trump’s statement of financial condition every year. Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization employed various deceptive schemes in valuing the clubs to inflate their values.

Mar-a-Lago:
This property was valued as high as $739 million based on the false premise that it was unrestricted property and could be developed and sold for residential use, even though Mr. Trump himself signed deeds donating his residential development rights, sharply restricting changes to the property, and limiting the permissible use of the property to a social club. In reality, the club generated annual revenues of less than $25 million and should have been valued at closer to $75 million.
Trump Aberdeen:
The valuation of this golf course in Aberdeen, Scotland assumed 2,500 homes could be developed when the Trump Organization had obtained zoning approval to develop less than 1,500 cottages and apartments, many of which were expressly identified as being only for short-term rental. The $267 million value attributed to those 2,500 homes accounted for more than 80% of the total $327 million valuation for Aberdeen on the 2014 Statement of Financial Condition.
Trump National Golf Club, Jupiter:
Mr. Trump purchased this golf course in Jupiter Florida for $5 million. Less than a year later, Mr. Trump valued the same property at $62 million on the 2013 statement, a markup of 1,100%. For every year from 2013 to 2020, virtually all of the value attributed to Jupiter was fraudulently overstated due to several deceptive methods and assumptions. The golf course was valued using a fixed-asset approach even though that was not an acceptable method for valuing an operating golf course. The bulk of the value in that fixed-asset approach was based on the use of an inflated purchase price from the purported assumption of “refundable” membership liabilities. Mr. Trump claimed to have paid $46 million for the club, consisting of $5 million in cash he actually paid and $41 million in assumed membership liabilities. In the statements, Mr. Trump did not disclose the inclusion of those inflated liabilities in the price of the club and in fact took the opposite position that his potential liability for those membership deposits was zero. Additionally, the Trump Organization overstated the value of this golf course by adding an additional 30% for the Trump brand in 2013 and 2014 and 15% from 2015 through 2020 – even though the statements disclaimed that any of the valuations included a brand premium.
False and Misleading Statements of Financial Condition Were Used to Secure and Maintain Financial Benefits on Favorable Terms

The statements were used to obtain and maintain favorable loans over at least an 11-year period. All told, the financial benefit realized from this scheme was approximately $250 million, including interest savings and transaction profits, because of the favorable loan terms they were able to obtain using his false and misleading statements.

Trump National Doral:

The Trump Organization executed a $150 million purchase and sale agreement for this property in 2011. Mr. Trump’s statements were used to secure a $125 million loan from Deutsche Bank and were regularly submitted to the bank to fulfill the financial reporting requirements of Mr. Trump as guarantor on the loan. In multiple instances, the loan agreement required that Mr. Trump certify the truth and accuracy of his statements as a condition of the guaranty and the continuing loan covenants.

Trump International Hotel & Tower, Chicago:

Since 2009, this property’s value has been excluded from the statements because, according to sworn testimony, Mr. Trump did not want to take a position that would conflict with his contention to tax authorities that the property had become worthless, and thus formed the basis of a substantial loss under the federal tax code. However, in 2012, using the building or its components as collateral, Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization obtained a $107 million loan on the building from Deutsche Bank. The loan received a $45 million expansion in 2014. Mr. Trump’s supposed net worth of $4 billion reflected on his statement was used to personally guarantee the initial loan at an interest rate approximately four percentage points lower than it would have been without his guaranty.

Trump Old Post Office, Washington, D.C.:

In 2013, the Trump Organization obtained a ground lease from the federal General Services Administration to redevelop this property into a luxury hotel. This project was captained by Ivanka Trump, and Mr. Trump’s statements were central to their effort to win the bid to redevelop this site. They were able to obtain a $170 million loan for construction from Deutsche Bank on much more favorable terms by personally guaranteeing the loans using Mr. Trump’s statements. The loan agreement required that Mr. Trump certify the accuracy of his statements annually and included a provision that made him guarantee that the materials provided to the bank to obtain the loan did not include any misleading information. Any misrepresentation on those statements would constitute a default under the terms of the loan. In May 2022, the Trump Organization sold the Old Post Office property for $375 million. As a result, Mr. Trump obtained more than $100 million in net profit, which was the result of the loan he was able to obtain by using his false and misleading statements.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-we...igation-d6a128161e52d1cea94d4ffb54d14ef0

All they really have are excuses and to cast blame on those who are holding him accountable for his criminal activity.

Isn't it kinda like that with every case where he's indicted?


All he and his minions know how to do is attack the lawyers, judges, juries and now family of the Judges.

S

Federal judge upholds verdict in E. Jean Carroll case and denies Trump’s motion for a new trial

A federal judge on Thursday upheld the verdict and award in E. Jean Carroll’s defamation case against former President Donald Trump and denied Trump’s motion for a new trial.

Judge Lewis Kaplan, in a written opinion, said Trump’s legal arguments are without merit. The judge also found that the punitive damages the jury awarded to Carroll “passes constitutional muster.”

Carroll, a former magazine columnist, alleged Trump raped her in a Bergdorf Goodman department store in the mid-1990s and then defamed her when he denied her claim. In a separate case, a jury last year found Trump liable for the sexual assault.

The second case stems from remarks Trump had made denying Carroll’s allegations in 2019. He was found liable for defamation last year, and a jury earlier this year ordered him to pay $83.3 million in punitive and compensatory damages.

Trump’s legal team had argued that the damages awarded to Carroll in the defamation case were excessive. Kaplan dismissed that argument in his opinion released Thursday.

“Mr. Trump’s malicious and unceasing attacks on Ms. Carroll were disseminated to more than 100 million people,” Kaplan wrote. “They included public threats and personal attacks, and they endangered Ms. Carroll’s health and safety.”

“The jury,” Kaplan added, “was entitled to conclude that Mr. Trump derailed the career, reputation, and emotional well-being of one of America’s most successful and prominent advice columnists and authors.”

Trump has maintained that he did not sexually assault Carroll, and in 2019, said that Carroll was not his “type.” Those denials formed the basis of the defamation lawsuit.

He sat in court for portions of the defamation trial, earning rebukes from the judge after he was heard making comments during Carroll’s testimony. As Carroll’s lawyers delivered their closing arguments, Trump abruptly and dramatically stood up and left the courtroom.

Kaplan referenced that episode in his opinion: “Mere minutes after (Carroll’s) counsel began her closing argument, Mr. Trump conspicuously stood and walked out of the courtroom for no apparent reason save to evidence his disapproval.”

Aside from the eye-popping monetary amount, the judgment brought another point into stark clarity: A jury of regular citizens – not the politicians or their appointees that Trump constantly claims mistreat him – held him accountable.

The judgment comes as Trump sits in another courtroom – this time, a criminal one – awaiting another jury of regular New Yorkers to decide his fate on charges that he falsified business records to cover up an affair ahead of the 2016 election.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/politics/federal-judge-upholds-e-jean-carroll-verdict/index.html