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The Browns do not want to get rid of Derek. But they are not afraid to let him go. Big difference from from those that think because Derek may not be here next year that it is a reflection of the Browns estimation of him.
That's the thing though... IMO it's actually a direct reflection of the Browns' estimation of him.
I'll try to explain my thinking on this... if DA is a franchise QB, you do everything in your power to keep him and let no obstacle stand in your way of keeping him.
Look at the more recent QB surprises that came from nowhere to blossom into stars - Tom Brady, Marc Bulger and Tony Romo. Once they played and showed their ability, there was no turning back, no matter what it meant.
For Brady, it meant sitting Drew Bledsoe, who was just signed at the start of the season to a 10 year $100 million extension, just entering his prime at age 29.
For Bulger, it meant a switch away from Kurt Warner who had just won the MVP award the previous season and had signed a 6 year $47 million the year before.
With Romo, it meant Parcells facing a ton of heat and second guessing for putting in an unknown commodity for a veteran during the season on a team many expected to compete.
How many of those guys were instantly put on the trade block following their breakout season? Instead, each team tried (and succeeded) in locking them up long term and unloaded their previous commitments, no matter what it meant. When you find "the guy", you don't get rid of him.
Less than one week into the off-season, we've already heard our organization (namely Romeo) say that if the price is right, DA can be had. We've already heard people from within the organization say that Quinn may be the starting quarterback next year. We've already heard Savage himself talk about DA in terms of a one-year tender that can be matched before he talks of extension. These aren't just whispers... they're happening for a reason.
If they thought that DA was a franchise quarterback this doesn't happen. If they even thought he was a lock to be a good quarterback at worst (even if he doesn't achieve greatness), this doesn't happen. We CAN get rid of Brady, just like Bledsoe and Warner were kicked to the curb despite huge commitments bigger than ours to Quinn. We just need to believe that DA is worth investing in as a long term starter... and we don't.
Say what you will, but if our organization believed that Anderson was the future of this franchise and would be a great quarterback in the end, we would be talking about WHEN the extension offer would be made, not IF.
We're... we're good?
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Quote:
I'll try to explain my thinking on this... if DA is a franchise QB, you do everything in your power to keep him and let no obstacle stand in your way of keeping him.
Look at the more recent QB surprises that came from nowhere to blossom into stars - Tom Brady, Marc Bulger and Tony Romo. Once they played and showed their ability, there was no turning back, no matter what it meant.
For Brady, it meant sitting Drew Bledsoe, who was just signed at the start of the season to a 10 year $100 million extension, just entering his prime at age 29.
For Bulger, it meant a switch away from Kurt Warner who had just won the MVP award the previous season and had signed a 6 year $47 million the year before.
With Romo, it meant Parcells facing a ton of heat and second guessing for putting in an unknown commodity for a veteran during the season on a team many expected to compete.
That is a great point, I'm surprised I didn't think of it.. 
yebat' Putin
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Great post that pretty much sums it up Spectre!  And no, I'm NOT surprised DC didn't think of it! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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what vikes coach said in presser today (thur):
"Childress also said he expected Kelly Holcomb and Brooks Bollinger back, although he tempered that by saying, "good football players are what we’re all about, and I haven’t even started to assess the draft or free agency yet, and see what’s out there...
Childress, though, insisted that improving the passing offense and improving the passing defense are the offseason priorities.
Other highlights:
* Childress said the Wilfs have given him full support in pursuing free agents this offseason"
more here:
[url=http://www.vikingsnow.blogspot.com/]
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Quote:
How many of those guys were instantly put on the trade block following their breakout season? Instead, each team tried (and succeeded) in locking them up long term and unloaded their previous commitments, no matter what it meant. When you find "the guy", you don't get rid of him.
That was not the case with Romo. After being voted onto the pro bowl he regressed. Jones was hesitant at the beginning of the year to sign him to a long term, big money deal and said so. After Romo again proved himself earlier this year he was signed to a big contract. Also Romo had noone sitting on the bench behind him who was just drafted to be the QB of the future.
I have no idea where Savage stands on DA. I have heard his posturing, but that means very little to me. I am looking forward to how this plays out. Whatever happens I am willing to give Savage the benefit of the doubt. He has been far from perfect in my eyes but the good he has done outways the bad by far. If nothing else this will make for an interesting off season. 
#gmstrong
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also though with the talk about Romo and Brady and Bulger...
what of Trent Green, and Drew Brees
Both were unloaded and became successful QBs in their new cities. Did SD and STL become better off with Rivers and Warner respectively?
STL prolly because Warner won 2 league MVPs, but SD? im not so sure about them.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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"I do however want to give him a chance to grow on this team while competing for the starting job."
Honestly, I would too if not for the fact that we have BQ here. Forget about what we spent on him...talent for talent - BQ has a brighter future. talent for talent - BQ has a very good chance of winning out in a competition for the job and will be our starter. I'm not willing to ignore a windfall of compensation to see him competing for the starting job - which I feel he will end up on the short end.
Then what. He goes UFA in 09? We get nothing? We sign him long terms and have a darn good QB backup? With our OL giving him hardly any reps as BQ becomes the next Iron Man?
Also we cleared the mental danger of controversy by dumping Frye for DA to succeed. We should keep one here to endanger the growth of BQ?
It comes down to two categories.
1. DA is our Franchise QB...sign him long term and eat the investments we made with BQ - you don't play games when you got the holy grail in hand.
2. Make DA available as he is good but we don't feel he is the "GUY" and therefore expendable.
3. There was a 3 but DA simply exceeded all expectations as I believe the master plan was to have DA as our Franchise Backup QB. That door has closed.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Pit...on us agreeing.
Joe Thomas was a no brainer
DA...hey what can I say you're finally hitting on things...I haven't changed so it must be you 
j/k - goes to show we probably agreed a lot more than disagreed. I find that with most posters.
Now the fact I agree with Corpus in some degree on this subject...now that scares me 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
We sign him long terms and have a darn good QB backup?
And that is the problem.....be it DA or BQ in the back-up role....teams don't do that for a number of reasons.
All one has to do is look at Indy. After Manning, they have Sorgi.....we saw 1st hand what Indy would look like without Manning.
The reality is teams don't want real good back-ups. They want their starter firmly in position in the minds of the staff and fans.
With few exceptions in the history of the game....show me a back-up who is close to the starter, I'll show you a starter who isn't very good.
DA or Quinn might not be traded or let go this off-season.....but one will probably be let go by the end of camp.....note...."let go" doesn't mean plain old cut for those who can't follow along.
The natural out we have is Anderson has to be tagged. If someone offers him a dollar more, we can say we can't match that and let him move on down the road.
I myself don't really want to see him go but understand we can't keep both.....and the other reality in all of this is DA is the valuable player. We couldn't move BQ for a 1st rounder at this point.
Players are like new cars...their value drops pretty quickly if they don't show anything.
That isn't to say BQ won't show anything, he hasn't been given ample opportunity....but it is what it is at this point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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"teams don't do that for a number of reasons.
All one has to do is look at Indy. After Manning, they have Sorgi.....we saw 1st hand what Indy would look like without Manning."
In Mannings case - (started every game since 98?) he always had good protection...every year regardless of # of sacks (but usually the cleanest QB) the hits after throws were at a minimum also. They had Tarik Glen.
This year they did not...his sacks did rise but were very decent totals but Manning did get hit more than I ever saw him get hit and rushed.
We have made an environment similar to Manning's during the Tarik Glen years.
DA hardly got hit and the sacks were minimum. Last year after 3 games he's on the IR. We are on the list with Manning, Brady, Favre with keeping our QB at a minimum of hits where the backup? takes on a different priority with the rest of the NFL.
We can get away with Dorsey (our Sorgi) cause he won't take the cap off.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
also though with the talk about Romo and Brady and Bulger...
what of Trent Green, and Drew Brees
Both were unloaded and became successful QBs in their new cities. Did SD and STL become better off with Rivers and Warner respectively?
STL prolly because Warner won 2 league MVPs, but SD? im not so sure about them.
St. Louis absolutely got better by getting rid of Green. They won a Super Bowl with Warner, who had a spectacular stretch after Green was dumped. Concerning Brees - I don't know anyone who thought Rivers was "the guy" when the Chargers let Brees go. If anything, they thought it was Brees. Think there's any regret there? The problem was that Brees was going to be a free agent demanding top dollar, but he was just coming off a down year and shoulder surgery and they had a decent replacement in Rivers. They let other factors get in the way of their franchise QB and they paid the price.
Concerning Romo - the Cowboys didn't sign him to an extension right away, but at no point did they look towards any other option other than re-signing him. It's been clear through the whole process that they weren't going to let him get away, they just wanted to pay him less than he ended up getting. The difference was in the compensation, not the desire to keep him. When Romo started playing well, Jones knew he had to move into Romo's idea of a contract in order to keep him, so he did.
Again - if you find "the guy", you do everything in your power to keep him. When you don't (see: Chargers), you end up regretting it. If our organization thinks DA is the guy, I sure hope they'd move towards locking him up. The fact that they haven't even made him an offer yet, but HAVE talked about trading him, though, tells me all I need to know.
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All one has to do is look at Indy. After Manning, they have Sorgi.....we saw 1st hand what Indy would look like without Manning.
No we didn't. The idiots on NBC kept saying that and I don't know what the heck they were thinking.
We saw what Indy looked like without Manning, their top 5 (!!) receiving options (Harrison, Wayne, Gonzalez, Clark and Addai were all out), their top running back, and I believe 3 starting offensive linemen. All this when they were playing a team carrying only starters and with their playoff lives on the line. What exactly were you expecting Sorgi to do?
~Lyuokdea
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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You actually believe Indy would still win a lot of games with their whole offense intact and Swordfish running the show??? 
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We can get away with Dorsey (our Sorgi) cause he won't take the cap off.
Do not discount Dorsey's ability to run this offense...
I think Dorsey is the perfect backup for the Browns simply because of his knowledge of the offense. His arm strength is ample enough to make this offense go, especially with targets like Winslow, Edwards and JJ.
No doubt, Dorsey would emphasis the short game more than DA or Quinn might but he has enough arm to go deep when needed....How deep, I don't know..but deep enough, IMO...WOOF...mac
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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That's the thing though... IMO it's actually a direct reflection of the Browns' estimation of him.
No, I would not say a "direct" reflection of "Anderson"....It seems to me it would be more of a direct reflection of the Browns QB situation. If Brady was not waiting in the wings....would there be ANY talk whatsoever. Direct reflection on Anderson means he and he alone.....But it isn't JUST about him. Because if it was just him with Dorsey as back up.....He would be locked up by now. Which could still happen....Especially if other teams don't step up to the plate. if they don't and he continues to do well, there is no reason we can't extend him during the season or just before.
The issue is which scenario is best for the Browns. Derek gone and draft picks in his place....Derek here by matching another offer, or Derek here by signing long term....
Now I see what you are saying about judging his skills.....but it really isn't him...it is more of a judgement of the QB situation IF on the off chance we lose him. Or in other words.......Is the difference between him here and the QB if he is not greater than the possible player(s) we could get with the 1st and 3rd compensation?
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You actually believe Indy would still win a lot of games with their whole offense intact and Swordfish running the show???
As bad as Tenn. looked in that game they could have easily won without Manning if they still had the rest of the team in there. I don't know how good Manning would have looked though with the same group of guys Sorgi got to play with. 
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C'on..U honestly think Swordfish can throw?
He looked like DA on every play when his passes are off..
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No I don't think Sorgi is a good QB. Of course unlike you I don't think Manning is so good he can win on his own. I give guys like Addia, Wayne, Clark and the Oline some of the credit also. It's funny reading your posts that you give everyone else credit for the numbers that DA put up but Manning does it by himself. 
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to a degree, Timothy may have a point Attack..
I mean, these two teams play each other tough anyway,, even with all Starters in and healthy on both sides of the ball..
Lots of Offensive starters were missing on the Colts side of the ball.. I don't care what team it is,, you take out the offensive starters and have them face a 1st team D... it's not going to be a picnic and it certainly doesn't give you the best chance to win...
So, Timothys point has some merit! JMO however
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think Sorgi is probably a much better QB than most people think. Indy just resigned the guy so they see something in him. The last game I don't think is any indication considering the beating he was taking and the fact he was playing with just about the wholw second string against a top defense. I find it funny that so many people jump on a player after only seeing him once. 
#gmstrong
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Of course unlike you I don't think Manning is so good he can win on his own. I give guys like Addia, Wayne, Clark and the Oline some of the credit also.
Can I ask you and Daman a question?
When you read my post did you see Manning's name typed in it?
What did I say?
When I have posted about DA did I ever say the only reason he had success was the recievers caught everything?
Since U brought up PM's name..dude can throw...Swordfish can't ..thats my point..
Are you suffering from selective reading?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/04/08 02:21 PM.
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Quote:
Can I ask you and Daman a question?
When you read my post did you see Manning's name typed in it?
If you will notice,, I said nothing about Manning.. that's not the essence of the thought that Timothy mentioned that I thought had merit,,
His thought, if you read a little between the lines, was that if Sorgi had had all the weapons that would normally be available to a Colts QB, then the outcome could have been different.. And I agree with that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I read what he said..but if he wants to be realistic and look at from what was on display..Swordfish is a horrible QB...no if ands or buts..
No talent out there is gonna make him look good...
If he can't get the ball to the WR's they aren't going to be in any position to catch any balls..
I've told you and many other people time and time again, you can judge talent based on a INDIVIDUAL's own skill set....not the group around him..
And Swordfish blows as a QB..
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And Swordfish blows as a QB..
Well, I have trouble believing that.. based on track record alone, not his, but the Colts. The Colts are the only team since I don't know when, in week 17, all 22 starters were drafted by the Colts and had never played for anybody else... They are also one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the NFL and have been for a number of years... So given that track record of talent evaluation, I find it hard to believe they would have recently extended the contract of somebody who is that useless to the team... I just find it hard to believe.
yebat' Putin
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Yes, Sorgi is a joke,, but a joke playing with better talent around him is going to be less of a joke. as it was, the Titans only won that game by two field goals,, so it was close most of the way.,.,
Even a blind pig can find an accorn.. so like I said, there is merit to his thinking.. either way, would it, for sure, made a difference to have the 1st stringers surrounding Sorgi? Hell if I know..
I only know that if you put your best guys on the field to surround your weakest link (in this case, Sorgi) your chances of success improve.,.,,
That's my only reason for thinking that the feeling Timothy mentioned has merit!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Just because the Colts have backups doesn't mean they're all good..and while you find it hard to believe about Swordfish ,you can have so many good players at certain positions..
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No, it doesn't mean they're all good.. but why extend the contract of one that is that awful at a position as important as QB?
yebat' Putin
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The more I think about it the more I want to keep DA, I don't care what the offer is unless it's 2 first rounders.
I still think Quinn will become the FAR superior QB, but what if Quinn gets hurt?
That right there makes DA worth his weight in pure platinum to us...
And this is coming from a guy who once said "A 1 and a 3? See yaaaaa..."
Last edited by Ammo; 01/04/08 03:54 PM.
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j/c...
i think we all see the need for upgrades at ILB and WR2, despite the fact that they aren't our biggest need...so...
would you bite on a player trade of DA for Briggs + Berrian?...
i know player trades are almost nonexistant...not meant so much as a real possbility...just kind of interested what the thoughts on those 2 guys are, and what their value may be...
Browns fans are born with it...
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You made it sound like Sorgi was out there stinking it up with the same guys that Peyton usually has. I'm not saying Sorgi is a good QB but I don't think Manning could have done much with what he had to play with either.
The point was so many blame Sorgi but that crap that the Colts were trotting out there in the second half no QB could have won with. Not to mention they only lost by 6 points and Tenn. was playing for their playoff lives.
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This really isn't hard at all..how many snaps a year does Manning take? Virtually ALL of them...so there's no need to invest in a QB who isn't going to see the field expect in preseason and meaningless games.. ttimothygman U just either don't want to get it or fail to see it.. I said Swordfish isn't a good QB...and I said I evaluate a player on his skillset , not the surrounding cast..what don't you understand about that? GMAB..at least if Manning had been in there , the ball would be delivered to the reciever, whether he caught it or not..
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Atlanta
KC
Baltimore
Carolina
Chicago
Detroit
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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Assuming we want D first thru the draft based this mock draft (which very similar to most) http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=749667#1 will be glenn dorsey-only way to get him is trade for miami's #1 pick teams that will draft a QB-that may want a #3-#5 in the league proven QB and their picking order are: IF WE TRADE DA TO ATLANTA OR KC: 3. ATLANTA (4-12) The Pick: Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College The Buzz: The Falcons must rebuild their offense, and the start with the most important position. 5. KANSAS CITY (4-12) The Pick: Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville The Buzz:The Chiefs are a total offensive disaster, and the quarterback spot is their highest priority. D-players: if we trade here, we could still get James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State*, Sedrick Ellis, DT, Southern Cal, Keith Rivers, LB, USC , Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State* (i know he's farther down than the bears pick, but in some others, he's higher, so just to be safe) O-players Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas*, Early Doucet, WR, LSU IF WE TRADE DA TO DA BEARS: 14. CHICAGO (7-9) The Pick: Andre' Woodson, QB, Kentucky The Buzz: The Bears are hoping for a chance at a future offensive leader in the first round. D-players: here we could still get Calais Campbell, DE, Miami, Kenny Phillips, FS, Miami* (we need DL's and a LB Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida*, more than safeties, but he's there, so i put him in), Dan Connor, LB, Penn State, Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU* O-players: DeSean Jackson, WR, California * (don't like him), Steve Slaton, RB, West Virginia*, Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan*, Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois* and some others if we don't feel feel strongly about these D-guys, and the only guy i feel strongly abut is Dorsey, then we don't need a first rounder. 2nd round will do. As far as the O, the only guy i would want is Darren McFadden. So i think that's gonna be the bottom line with savage as far as whether he trades or keeps DA in my thinking. Thoughts?
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
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Atlanta
KC
Baltimore
Carolina
Chicago
Detroit
back on track... for a page or two there i thought i was on the colts board discussing Sorgi and the backups
Anderson has value to alot of teams, including the Browns. At the VERY least he is a solid number 2. Who couldn't use one of those?????
As for starting material, He would be an instant upgrade for Atlanta, Baltimore, Carolina depending on the health of Jake, Chicago, Detroit, Miami, San Fran, Minnesota, and i'll even throw Jacksonville in there as well. San Fran has a huge qb dilemma on their hands- hard to admit you have a busted pick. MN probably rides Jackson one more year- when they talk about upgrading the passing offense they are talking receivers. Jacksonville is a playoff team, doubt they change but i would still take DA over Garrard.
So yes, there is value in DA. But he is value to browns as well. They will not just give him away.
Someone mentioned this earlier- and i think they are 100% correct. The Browns plan was Quinn as the future QB and DA as the long term second string guy. Sit Quinn a year and let him learn while DA worked out the kinks in the offense. Well, DA kind of messed up the plan as he played himself out of the backup position into a starting qb in the nfl.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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All Pro
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All Pro
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back on track... for a page or two there i thought i was on the colts board discussing Sorgi and the backups
yeah i was noticing that too. Figured i would try to get it back on the stuff for the future.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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would you bite on a player trade of DA for Briggs + Berrian?...
I think Briggs is going to be an UFA this offseason so we won't need to trade for him.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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Legend
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Legend
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Virtually ALL of them...so there's no need to invest in a QB who isn't going to see the field expect in preseason and meaningless games..
I really can't believe you just said that,,, I can't believe it at all,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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Atlanta
KC
Baltimore
Carolina
Chicago
Detroit
You know, I'd actually like to add San Diego to that list. Isn't Phillip Rivers a UFA?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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We can get away with Dorsey (our Sorgi) cause he won't take the cap off.
Do not discount Dorsey's ability to run this offense...
I think Dorsey is the perfect backup for the Browns simply because of his knowledge of the offense. His arm strength is ample enough to make this offense go, especially with targets like Winslow, Edwards and JJ.
No doubt, Dorsey would emphasis the short game more than DA or Quinn might but he has enough arm to go deep when needed....How deep, I don't know..but deep enough, IMO...WOOF...mac
That's the funny part here. Quinn? Signed long term as our "future". Dorsey just signed a three year extension.
So let's do the math here. We HAVE a "starting caliber" QB drafted and signed. We have his back up signed for three years.
DA? All the talk is about "entertaining trade offers". How many NFL teams have "three QB's signed" to multi year deals?
I think the picture is fairly obvious as to what will happen if "the right offer" comes our way.............
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Can't believe I missed Miami. That one should have been obvious.
SF is an interesting thought but they gave their 1st rounder to NE so I doubt they could come up with an attractive enough offer and certainly can't sign him if we place a high tender on DA.
I agree that Minnesota should look to upgrade at QB. But I think they like Jackson to be their future and will acquire a veteran QB. Pennington maybe?
Jax - I gotta disagree with you there. For their style of play Gerrard is a better fit. Run the ball, play tough D and don't turn it over. DA throws too many interceptions for them.
SD is an interesting thought. I don't know if Rivers is an UFA or not but he certainly took a big step back this year. I think AJ Smith has too much invested in him to give up that easily.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Which teams might benefit from a
trade for DA?
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