DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett Trade Talk Continued....

watson was what he was. When so many personal issues are dismissed and ignored to only focus on stats and film that's only the fault of the people in charge of the decision. I didn't see you mention anything about the decision makers in your post. So it is all watson's fault then?

No it's not. They made the decision to bring this degenerate in because they ignored the real world situation and were lured in by that bright shiny object. Nobody made watson the face of this franchise but the people who made the decision to make it so.

Some feel going 3-13 leaves the SB window open. And in the future when you use the term "we" could you be a little more specific?

1st here is your white cane



https://carroll.org/product/ambutech-folding-aluminum-cane/

2nd Lets start with the Headline

Jimmy Haslam, Paul DePodesta meddling in Browns offense could be problematic.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/posts/ji...ffense-could-be-problematic-01hnvfzd1579

Jimmy Haslam, Paul DePodesta meddling in Browns offense could be problematic
Deshaun Watson has yet to take off for the Cleveland Browns and Albert Breer says that's the reason the Cleveland Browns decision-makers wanted Alex Van Pelt fired

Since when has it ever worked out after a team's 'face' publicly and sternly stated he wanted out and then ended up staying? This isn't about $$$...they are/were prepared to make him the highest paid defensive player in the league. He doesn't like what he sees...from the inside...and he wants out.

If I could trade MG for 2-3 really good swings at a FQB I'd do it in a heartbeat...however...even if we want(ed) to trade him...we cannot due to the dead cap hit and without going full re-tool/re-build.

MG is a great player...a freak of nature...one of a kind at his position. However, that position can't carry an average team to the SB like a QB can sometimes do.

The issue really boils down to whether we can - and will - make the moves this off-season that makes us a SB contender...SB...not just a playoff team. I believe that there is not a QB available and on this planet who can lead us to a SB run in '25. Holding on to MG for another year - until he's then 30 - and delaying the inevitable 're-tool' is a fools errand. Running with Cousins or another re-tread might win just enough games to fool the owner and the season tix holders...and maybe even save some jobs. And then here we will sit next year with a disgruntled 30 year old superstar on a team with no FQB and still with an aging, dead-cap-loaded roster.

MG isn't going to lead us to the SB...but what we get in exchange for him just might. Given that he so adamantly wants out, taking that swing is a no-brainer IMO.

Haslam doesn't have time to devote his "full attention" to any one thing. The browns are far from his only major pro sports investment.

Welcome to Haslam Sports Group, the home of premier sports and entertainment experiences. Founded on the vision of the Haslam and Johnson families, our mission is to create world-class organizations that not only achieve sustainable success but also redefine the fan experience.

We curated a dynamic portfolio of professional football, soccer and basketball teams designed to inspire fans

https://haslamsports.com/#about

I don't doubt that the new dome stadium is high on his priority list. However he has multiple irons in the fire at the same time.

Finally! Agree 100%.
That’s the most sensible way forward.

I don't think God really gives a damn about football although I could be wrong. For some reason I feel he thinks it's just a silly game and has far more important things on his plate worth dealing with. But good luck with that.

So are both of you saying that if we cannot get 2 numbers 1s for Myles we trade
Him anyways because that is all he is worth?

He is worth what the market says he is worth. That may be worth trading him or it may not be.

I don't mind trading the guy.

It has to be for the proper value.

All draft picks have a placed value. A pick in the late 20's isn't as valuable as a pick in the top 10. If we can only find teams picking late in the draft, they will owe us more picks. A fairly considerable amount more.

We determine his value since we don't really want to sell. If we trade him to New England, the price might be two first rounders plus whatever else. If we traded him to the Eagles, it might be three first rounders plus whatever else.

Like I said if you would have typed Jimmy Haslam, meddling in Browns offense could be problematic


We wouldn't be having this conversation bro.

GM...when will you understand...I DID NOT WRITE THE ARTICLE...

..."Jimmy Haslam, Paul DePodesta meddling in Browns offense could be problematic"...

I think he changed but I also think he was a bad fit for the "Stefanski O". Then we tried to modify the Stefanksi O to help Watson, but that just screwed up everything else that we may have been good at.


To your point, I don't fault the FO for swinging bigly for a fQB. I do fault them for going for a guy that didn't fit the system they had built up. It would've made more sense if we were already a backyard-ball offense, or if we were a blank slate on offense and were in the process of adding younger talent to start to mold.

But you posted it, just like you post all kinds of articles that blame Depo for everything from covid to killing Jimmy Hoffa You keep up with your agend.... oh heck not wasting any more time. Have a good day Mac.

Myles cannot hold out entire season. He has 2 years remaining on his contract and if he does not play, he will still have 2 years remaining on his contract. He can saber rattle in the media, but the bottom line is he has no leverage at this time. I agree there is a price Berry would take to trade Myles, but it will be steep, and it should be. If a team like the Commanders, Lions, and Bills feel he is the missing piece to their Super Bowl trouble then pony up. If not, the Browns have no obligations to trade him. If a team with a higher draft pick wants him the Browns have to do what's best for the Browns. This is a business, and Myles is a chess piece. He is either used to win games or secure capital that can be used to win games in the future.

You are correct that you didn't write the article. Yet you chose to believe and post an article you found that said what you want it to say. It doesn't mean it's true. It just means it agrees with the agenda you want to push.

In order to accrue a season, NFLPA rules say a player must have been on (or should have been on*) full-play status for at least 6 regular-season games in a given season. A player under contract must report to his team's training camp on his mandatory reporting date in order to earn an accrued season.

In the NFL, there is a “Hold-In” and a “Hold-Out.” The difference between the two holds potentially millions of dollars in penalties.
A “Hold-In” is a player who reports to mandatory training camp, and is on-site — but that doesn’t necessarily mean they participate in practice.

A “Hold-Out” is a player who outright no-shows to mandatory training camp, and as such is subject to the $50,000/day penalty.

Considering Berry's stance on the matter, I would bet that Garrett will use the tools available to him by "Holding-in" so the Browns can't fine him then forcing Berry's hand by sitting out the first 11-games if necessary. He might decide to play the first 6-games then bale. Garrett has clearly stated that money is not the issue and won't sign an extension. Following through with his threat to do everything in his power to force a trade - contrary to popular belief - the Browns do not hold all the cards.

Ok maybe not all of the cards. But Garrett really does not have any real leverage. He does not have a no trade clause. So, if the Brown get a trade offer from New England, they like they can trade him. If the Browns decide to roll the dice and have Garrett do a hold in, they can do that also. I do not think that will happen though. The bottom line is Garrett is under contract for 2 more seasons and the Browns still have the Franchise tag option after that. So, at this time, he really does not have much of an option. I guess he could hold out 3 years.

My guess is the Browns will tear up his old contract and he will resign a new contract that is more cap friendly for the Browns in the short term. Garrett will get a no trade clause so he has a say in where he could be traded to in the future. His contract prevents him for the most part from being traded now but a new contract could change scenarios for next year. Only way he gets traded this off season is some team blinks and offers the Browns a deal to sweet to pass up. A deal that can kick start a rebuild and offer the ability to get a franchise QB. Outside of that it will probably be revisited next off season.

And they will probably do the same thing in the draft, drafting by the analytic numbers.

Garrett has already refused to enter any new contract negotiations with the Browns.....

Myles Garrett is not open to a contract extension with the Cleveland Browns, a league source confirmed, as the team remains adamant that it will not accede to the star pass rusher's trade request. Cleveland.com first reported that Garrett and his representatives have "slammed the door" on negotiations.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...not-open-browns-extension-amid-trade-ask

Well Mac if your name was Breer I would tell you your wrong. Like I said If you want to blame Jimmy you won't hear a peep from me. But like I said you always post articles blaming Depo. What's next you gonna start finding articles that claim Brad DeAngelis is in charge of our draft

Key word is extension. He is not open to an extension. A new contract would give him more control and the Browns more flexibility if they did decide to trade him. Both can be achieved if a new deal is reached. The dead money cannot be changed at this point, but a creative contract can make a deal more flexible for the team. That is just about his only play at this time. He is under contract, and he has no control of any trades that might get made thru the end of that contract.

Just one other thing. The Browns can trade Garrett to any team they wish. But there's a fly in the ointment here I don't believe you have considered. NO team is going to trade a bunch of draft picks or top compensation for a player with only having two years remaining on his contract. In order to get top compensation for Garrett he would have to agree to a contract extension with that team.

Nothing can force Garrett to sign such a contract extension with any team if he doesn't want to. So while that isn't a no trade clause per se, Garrett can refuse to sign an extension with any team he chooses not to be traded to. While that's certainly not holding all the cars it's a much better hand than some people think it is.

I have no idea what part of "Garrett has already refused to enter any new contract negotiations with the Browns" you are missing here.

Not necessarily. When a team holds the rights to a player and that players contract is up, they can franchise that player, and that player cannot get out of the franchise tag. Many players have been franchise tagged. Some have got tagged multiple times. Players do not always like getting tagged but that is the world they live in.

I have brought it up. It's the only leverage Myles has. He can refuse to sign an extension be it here or somewhere else. If so, the deal won't go through because he refused a trade, not that we did.

At that point I would tell Myles and his agent to work out any trade they want that is out of division. The caveat is that it would have to be valued on the draft value chart that would equal out to 2 top 15 1st rounders, a 2nd and a 3rd that have top 15 value, would have to be completed over 2 season and not include anything lower than a 4th to make it work out. And those are numbers off the cuff here without giving it much thought. It might go higher.

I would place the value along those lines rather than simply saying a few picks in this and that round.

Otherwise, we refuse the deal and Mr. Myles can expect to finish out his 2 years here and plan on 2 years of being tagged.

I like Myles. I don't mean to be vindictive in any way, but I am not going to relinquish my position because he wants me to fold.

If they work out a trade, I might be open to seeing it play out over 3 years, but the interest penalty would be increased.

I agree with all but the value. Two first rounders? Yes but 20-32..... If one of them is probably top 15? They only one 1st and two 2nd rounders. Jmo based on MG wanting out and he isnt a QB.

j/c...

From Dianna Russini's, 'From What I'm Hearing' article in The Athletic....

Myles Garrett’s potential path to Philly

The pass rusher market will be one to monitor. Garrett has publicly requested a trade from Cleveland, while Maxx Crosby, Trey Hendrickson, T.J. Watt and Micah Parsons are all eyeing fresh deals.

Seventeen of the top 20 highest AAV contracts in the league belong to quarterbacks; wide receiver Justin Jefferson, pass rusher Nick Bosa and wide receiver CeeDee Lamb hold the other three spots. Don’t be surprised to see shuffling as those premier sack artists cash in — with their current teams or elsewhere.

On Garrett, the Browns have remained consistent since his trade request went public six days before the Super Bowl: They are not listening to offers. If the Browns change their minds, I expect movement to happen as the draft nears and Cleveland GM Andrew Berry has to make tough roster decisions.

I’m told the Philadelphia Eagles’ interest in Garrett is real. As fearsome as Philly’s defense was in the Super Bowl, imagine adding the 2023 Defensive Player of the Year?

“Garrett could be this year’s version of Saquon Barkley for Howie (Roseman),” one NFL GM said. “He’s an impact add and isn’t a free-agent overpay. Howie’s not afraid to try stuff, and it fits where they are as a team.”

How would the Eagles come up with room to fit Garrett? By letting some key members of their Super Bowl-winning group walk. Linebacker Zack Baun was a free-agent gem Roseman found last offseason, but he is now poised to cash in. Baun, edge rusher Josh Sweat, defensive tackle Milton Williams and guard Mekhi Becton headline Philly’s free agent class, and bringing all or even some of them back could prove challenging, especially if Garrett enters the picture — and you can be certain Roseman will have Philly in the conversation for Garrett.

The Real Scope on Garrett's Contract and Possible Trade Cap Backlash

The most simple explanation for a contract restructure is simply taking a portion of a players base salary for a season and converting it into a signing bonus. The player gets their money as the signing bonus at the time of the restructure and reduces how much they are paid throughout the season. In other words, it’s a cash advance which can’t be taken away.

As covered previously when talking about contract bonuses, a signing bonus is paid to a player at the time of signing the contract but gets spread out to where it counts against the salary cap equally across the remaining years of the deal. A contract can be restructured multiple years throughout a player’s contracts but can obviously only be restructured once per season.

This idea is often referred to as “kicking the can down the road” because it is taking money paid now and spreading it out into multiple years. Every dollar that is paid to the player will eventually count against the salary cap, but by restructuring the contract it just doesn’t count as much on the upcoming season’s salary cap. And the more a player’s contract is restructured, the more it increases their prorated bonus and raises their salary cap hit in future years.

Garrett's original 2025 cap number in his extension was $27,522,245 before a convoluted 2023 contract restructure to create 2023 cap space where multiple option bonuses and five dummy/voiding years running through 2031 were inserted into the deal. Option bonuses are prorated over the life of a contract (up to a maximum of five years), including the option years, beginning in the league year when the option is exercised.

Thanks to the Berry restructure and the option bonuses, the Browns will have $36,216,220 of dead money, a salary cap charge for a player no longer on a team's roster, by quickly trading Garrett to receive draft choices from the acquiring team for the upcoming 2025 NFL Draft held April 24-26.

The Browns will need to quickly change their stance on Garrett to keep the dead money from increasing with a trade. There are two 2025 option bonuses in Garrett's contract. The deadline for the first option is March 14 on the third day of the 2025 league year. A $5 million payment is required to lower Garrett's 2025 base salary from $19,796,125 to $14,796,125 to pick up a 2028 contract year voiding on the 23rd day preceding the 2027 league year. There's also a corresponding $5 million option non-exercise fee that's payable if the option isn't exercised and Garrett is still a member of Cleveland's roster on the fourth day of the 2025 league year (March 16).

The dead money increases by $5 million to $41,216,220, but that doesn't occur during the first couple of days of the 2025 league year. Obviously, Garrett, the Browns and the acquiring team could agree to push back this option exercise deadline if necessary, with a trade in the works.

The deadline for the second option is seven days prior to the start of the 2025 regular season, which should be Aug. 28. With this option, a $13,541,125 payment is necessary to lower Garrett's 2025 base salary from $14,796,125 to $1.255 million to pick up a 2029 contract year that voids on the 23rd day preceding the 2027 league year. There isn't a corresponding non-exercise fee like with the first 2025 option.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...e-compensation-for-star-could-look-like/

After all the bonuses are exercised, Garrett's salary charge to the cap is $1,255,000 in 2025 and $1,300,000 in 2026 due to the convoluted 2023 contract restructure by Berry to create 2023 cap. What does that actually mean? Answer: In 2025, Garrett will be actually paid by the Browns a salary of $1,255,000 for the season or $73,824 per game. Likewise, a holdout only risks that same $1,255,000 or $73,824 per game for the season. All the other monies will have been already paid like a cash advance which cannot be taken away.

The fallacy thought of Garrett losing big money by holding-in in 2025 is just that, a fallacy. Garrett holding-in only risks $1,255,000 because the other $26,267,245 will have already been paid and cannot be taken away. Though the Browns may have the cards contractually, monetarily - Garrett loses next to nothing in 2025 weakening Berry and the Browns stance. If the Browns decide not to exercise the Aug 28th payment, Garrett's salary cap charge will be $14,796,125 a cap charge increase of $13,541,125 which is only $1,217,770 less than a post-June 1 2025 dead cap charge if traded.

The theoretically easiest plan maybe. Most sensible? Based on what?

Building the team for the future sounds great. None of the players here now will want to stay here for that. No new players will want to come here from elsewhere after watching that. Rookies without a support system that will allow them to flourish will in all likelihood fail.

You can't solve everything by throwing rookies at a wall and seeing what sticks. If the past is anything to go by, most end up in a pool in the basement as broken messes.

No one wants to play for/with an organization that quits.

We can still build for the future while keeping the good players that we have. Getting more good players is how you become good teams. Not getting rid of one of the best players in the league.

Look, I get trying to make lemonade out of lemons after Myles' request. I think we're better off adding sugar than going the bitter pill route. It's not what he wants now, but trying to build a winner whether he'll be here or not makes sense. If you can now, he'll want to be here. Might as well see what you can do in the off-season. Myles is good enough he can move after the preseason and still be ready for a different team. His job is pretty much go get the QB, it's not super complex. Future picks from the Eagles/whichever contender are likely to be more valuable than picks now. They also tend to be acquirable at a discount so we'd likely get more. If we're building for the future, might as well actually put more potentially high ammo in the future.

I'm not sure that in a free market a certain value can be set. A player is only worth what the market will bear. My suggestion would be that the compensation would have to match the same offer the browns were willing to accept that Myles turned down by the other team.

Say the Browns were willing to take a first, a second and next years second for Garrett (just an example) by the team Myles refused to sign with, the browns should demand that any trade involving a team that Garrett would agree to would have to match that previous offer.

In your scenario it seems what the market dictated Garrett was actually worth and the browns were willing to take in trade by one team should be ignored and a higher bar be set for Myles going elsewhere.

What I see many doing on this board is convincing themselves that Myles is worth QB trade value. I don't think that's how it works.

At this point, I almost hope they trade Myles packaged with DW and that cap hit for damn near anything just to give us room to recover from the idiot move for DW.

I agree in general with almost everything but the Browns problem why it would be hard to go that route can be summarized in one sentence.
Andrew Berry and mismanagement.

1. Our cap space is limited. That’s the downside of the Watson trade and years of salary cap manipulation by Andrew Berry.

2. We don’t have a FQB and probably not even a good enough back up QB. That means we probably need to use our first round pick on a young talented QB and also find a decent QB in FA. That’s valuable draft capital and using our cap space just trying to repair the Watson fiasco.

3. Forcing our best player and probably the poster boy of the franchise to stay against his will comes with a lot of potential negative consequences. An organization who had enough big problems already should never go into a season with so much uncertainty circling around the team. All it takes is that Myles refuses to play, or doesn’t give his best and this season could be over before it even started. It means we potentially can be in an even worse situation in 2026.

It doesn’t matter if all of this is Jimmys fault, the bucks stops with the GM and his allies. One more failed season and the heads will probably start rolling if the Browns leadership doesn’t decide to reset and start all over again, that could give them, maybe maybe, two seasons of respite.

I don't necessarily disagree with your take, but I see another issue. Any QB that Berry drafts will be on the chopping block as soon as he gets fired. More often than not, new FO's want their own guy at QB. Of course, that means a #2 pick of a QB will actually be a wasted pick that they will never get compensated for accordingly. With 60% of your OL sitting on the last year of their contracts and most likely won't be retained plus LT currently open, drafting a rookie QB is suicide for the player looking at the guaranteed massive changes across the OL this year and next. The Browns have weak DT's and with Garrett's situation hanging over their heads, not addressing the OL and DL starting this 2025 draft is going to set this franchise back years especially with the amount of dead cap on the immediate horizon.

As you walk towards the horizon, the new horizon is in a different spot. Acting like potential future problems are problems now is just weird to me. Sure they'll need to be addressed, but there are two years/offseasons to address them. Some answers may already be on the team. Hall, Zinter, Briggs, Cohen it's too soon to judge. If you hit on a rookie QB, the cap becomes a lot more manageable. Assuming failure now is your prerogative, but they could also have success between now and then.