If Ukraine has been shut off from receiving intel for their missile strikes, they could just start lobbing missiles into populated Russian cities.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Since the last thread was closed right after I posted this article I decided to transpose it over to this thread.................
Trump's decision to stop intelligence-sharing will cost lives, Ukrainians say
The White House is not only pausing shipments of military equipment to the war-torn country, but also intelligence Kyiv uses to stop strikes on civilians.
KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine may have enough weapons to fight Russia unaffected for a few weeks at least, but President Donald Trump’s decision to stop sharing intelligence will cost civilian lives almost immediately, dismayed Ukrainians said Thursday.
Trump’s decision to halt intelligence came as European leaders, including Ukrainian President Volodymy Zelenskyy, convened a summit in Brussels as they attempt to cope with an upended landscape in which the Trump administration appears to be treating them with hostility while seemingly warming to the Kremlin.
Miles away from these high-powered meetings, ordinary Ukrainians may have to confront the real-world consequences of the White House’s U-turn.
As Washington turns off the tap on its $65 billion of military aid, Ukraine will also now have to do without American intelligence that has helped it to anticipate Russian attacks and troop movements, and avoid nightly barrages from Russian drones on its cities and infrastructure.
Viewed from the homes and apartments of Kyiv, it seems like “a very petty decision by our alleged ally,” said Myroslava Yeremkiv, 33, who manages donations at a nongovernmental organization in the capital. “The United States has the power at least to protect and save the lives of civilians from Russia’s brutal and terrorizing attacks … and you just choose not to.”
The White House cut off this intel feed following the disastrous Oval Office meeting last week between Trump, Vice President JD Vance and Zelenskyy. Though Trump’s team hinted that the pause is a negotiating tactic to ensure Zelenskyy is “ready for peace,” it has nonetheless shocked military and intelligence experts worldwide.
That feeling is no less deeply felt in Kyiv.
“This looks like a thug tactic — blackmailing and trying to break Ukrainian society into submission before negotiations,” Yeremkiv said, calling it a “very weak and pathetic decision.”
In some of the first practical consequences of that rupture, U.S. shipments of weapons and equipment already en-route to Ukraine were halted Monday night, a U.S. defense official told NBC News. So immediate was that order, that planes carrying vital aid for the Ukrainian war effort turned around in the sky, they added.
“I really, really hope that in the near future we can restore sharing of this information,” said Oleksandr Musiienko, head of the Kyiv-based Center for Military and Legal Studies. “We will lose some types of information about flying warplanes from Russian airfields, about launching their terrorist attacks,” added Musiienko, who also serves in the country’s Territorial Defense Forces. “This means that we do not have enough security and defense for our civilians.”
The U.S. is not the only country providing military aid and intelligence. But it is by far Ukraine’s largest single contributor of both. It will “be extremely difficult to fully compensate for this loss with our own capabilities or those of Europe,” according to Mykola Bielieskov, a research fellow at the National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Ukraine government-backed think tank.
Despite Moscow having the upper hand, Ukraine has slowed or even halted Russia’s grinding winter advances. Kyiv has managed to shoot down most of the hundreds of Russian drones fired almost nightly at civilian targets in cities. That’s partly down to $64 billion in American military assistance and $66 billion provided by all other countries combined, fueling Ukraine’s fighting spirit that confounded predictions of swift Russian victory.
At the European Union summit Thursday, Zelenskyy thanked the Europeans, who unlike Trump have committed to Kyiv’s unconditional defense, which they see as a bulwark against wider Russian aggression. “It’s great that we are not alone,” he told his fellow leaders.
Some of this money covers intelligence, with U.S. know-how helping the Ukrainians to wield American-supplied materiel such as the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, commonly known as HIMARS, and the Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS.
Away from the battlefield, the decision to pull the plug — and pull it so publicly — will send shock waves through America’s intelligence partners around the world, former officials said.
“The signal it sends is atrocious,” said Marc Polymeropoulos, a former senior CIA officer. “It’s a signal to the rest of the world that the U.S. is not a dependable ally.”
This message will also be heard loud and clear in Moscow.
“Every day that passes without a solution can be costly for Ukraine, particularly if Russia decides to exploit this weakness,” said Michael A. Horowitz, a geopolitical and security analyst who is the head of intelligence at the Le Beck consultancy.
“The spat is public. Russia knows about this, so they will try to take advantage.”
They proved themselves a paper tiger when their 3-day operation dragged on past a year. By all rights, they should have steamrolled Ukraine.
And then they proved they're still a threat by pouring all their resources (economic and manpower) into continuing the fight despite eye-watering losses. It can absolutely be both.
I do get what you are saying. Yes, they can be both. For me, it's somewhat a question of degree. There's your measured take vs some takes that are more histrionic on both ends.
I do somewhat question the they should have steamrolled assumption. I lean towards they were more paper than tiger before the invasion. Part of that is because they no longer had the materials from Ukraine that they controlled as the USSR. I think that's part of the reason for the war. They needed the materials to keep pace, perhaps even maintain their spot in the pecking order, as a "superpower." The old equipment breaks/had broken down. I think modernization requires materials that are in the Ukraine that they don't have their own stocks of, and so can only import limited supplies (what countries that don't want them strong will sell them), which hampers production.
Yes, they are pouring resources, but if NATO wanted to stop them/decimate them, it would be a one sided conventional war. How big really is the threat? Short of nukes, the military apparatus in Russia isn't really scaring the US war machine. I think this is somewhat why the approach to the war is what it is? We don't want Russia to be allowed to get the resources to compete, but we don't really worry about them as is. Really (?) we want the resources for "us." Making both weak can lead there.
Maybe I played too much Risk/Civilization/Crusader Kings in the day and wasn't around when Russia really was on the cutting edge and we were doing cold war drills, but the pieces just seem to fit better this way than "Oh no, save us from Russia!" and "Ukraine was kicking their butt!" which is what some people seem to vacillate between.
Edit: I do think Trump is handling it like a hamfisted crackpot regardless of the situation.
Last edited by Bull_Dawg; 03/06/2501:32 PM.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I think part of what makes them "scary" is their close ties with China. China is the real wildcard in terms of escalating with Russia.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I think part of what makes them "scary" is their close ties with China. China is the real wildcard in terms of escalating with Russia.
I don't know. I kind of feel like China-Russia ties are of the enemy of my enemy variety more than friends/allies. Maybe a bit of keep your enemies close "friends." China doesn't want their rival ("US"/"the West") getting stronger. They like the balance where it is.
.02
I'm not sure living in Japan and a few visits to Hong Kong make me an expert (I'm sure they don't), but I was an interested observer while doing WESTPACs.
I do agree there is uncertainty there with China. That's personally why I like the plausible deniability approach to ending the war.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
And one of the main reasons we see China having control over so much rare earth minerals is in large part due to their investment in Africa. I posted about this quite some time ago. The Belt and Road Initiative has helped make that possible.
This is a very long article but goes a long way in explaining how the Belt and Road Initiative is benefiting China. As it seems we are becoming more isolationists they are expending their global ties and investments which as of now is giving them a huge advantage..................
China’s Energy Empire in Africa and Its Threats to U.S. National Security
Trump envoy says Ukrainians ‘brought it on themselves’ after US pauses aid and intelligence sharing
Ukraine was given “fair warning” by the White House before President Donald Trump this week ordered a pause on U.S. military assistance and intelligence sharing with Kyiv, a senior administration official said Thursday.
The Republican administration announced the pauses this week after Trump and President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’sOval Office meeting devolved into a shouting match, with the U.S. president and Vice President JD Vance excoriating the Ukrainian leader for being insufficiently grateful for the tens of billions of dollars in U.S. assistance sent to Ukraine since Russia invaded three years ago.
Retired Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, Trump’s special envoy to Ukraine and Russia, said the pause is already having an impact on Kyiv, adding that the Ukrainians “brought it on themselves.”
“The best way I can describe it is sort of like hitting a mule with a two-by-four across the nose,” Kellogg said at an event Thursday at the Council on Foreign Relations. “You got their attention.”
That's diplomacy at its finest. No doubt someone will tell us how great it is and how effective.
Meanwhile Trump finally threatened Russia with massive sanctions and tariffs .... And yet somehow it feels like it's Only to cover the blowback about how he has cozied up to Russia and he wants to be able to pound his chest and claim. He's threaten them with something. What a croc!.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
There were several walk backs this week. Both on that front and also on the affirmation that the cabinet was in charge of the firings and not Elon. That was in response to the veterans being fired and the senators and cabinet members starting to raise hell, albeit behind closed doors.
There’s also the ever-swinging pendulum of tariffs.
The problem when you go on an aggressive offense without knowing what the hell you’re doing is that you eventually put yourself in an untenable position with fallout, not unlike his first administration. Now the fixers are coming in to try and pick up the pieces before he regroups and goes on the wild offensive again, I’m betting.
Chaos reigns.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I often wonder if those who "stand with Ukraine" would go stand with Ukraine... in Ukraine.
Why? What's that got to do with anything? Just a meaningless point. Would you say that to every American citizen that supports the US army? No. But but suddenly you think you've got a gotcha moment .... which you haven't
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I often wonder if those who "stand with Ukraine" would go stand with Ukraine... in Ukraine.
I know myself... and I know that if America found itself in the same situation, my ancient old-ass ass would take up arms to defend my country. So no... at this time, I probably wouldn't cross the Atlantic to fight on foreign soil, but I will stand up in solidarity to help in any way I can, a sovereign nation who was invaded by a despotic nation right next door. I'll give my money. I'll give my online help. I'll give my total support to a democracy under siege on the front lines of an attack from an authoritative ruler whose only motivation is to re-create the Soviet Union... our historical enemy.
From your most recent posts, I gather that your mileage differs. So be it.
Tell us: When did you stop believing in Our Democracy... and describe for us the moment when you were dragged away from all that made US the bastion of what Made America Great Always on the world's stage?
I enthusiastically invite your response. Because I have an absolute pregnant payload of rebuttal just waiting for you to respond.
I often wonder if those who "stand with Ukraine" would go stand with Ukraine... in Ukraine.
That was a dumb thing to say.
It's what they do. You know, "America, love it or leave it."
While they whined, biotched and carried on the entire eight years Obama was president and even went so far as to try and overthrow the 2020 election when Biden was elected and claimed he stole that election four his entire term, they expect us to either shut up about trump or leave. What a bunch of hypocrites they are.
If that's actually a question they feel they should ask, I have no idea why they aren't saying they stand with Russia. The very man they support does and the sad thing is he is one of the biggest enemies our nation has while trump sucks his backside.
The people who stand with Ukraine aren't the problem here. The people who stand with Russia's puppet are.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I often wonder if those who "stand with Ukraine" would go stand with Ukraine... in Ukraine.
So are you starting to get the idea behind only sending equipment to arm the Ukrainians so they can stay in the fight?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I often wonder if those who "stand with Ukraine" would go stand with Ukraine... in Ukraine.
Tell us: When did you stop believing in Our Democracy... and describe for us the moment when you were dragged away from all that made US the bastion of what Made America Great Always on the world's stage?
I enthusiastically invite your response. Because I have an absolute pregnant payload of rebuttal just waiting for you to respond.
Bring this to me. I dare you. I invite you.
In 3... 2... 1...
I never believed we were a democracy because.... we are not a democracy. We are a republic (constitutional federal republic) that elects representatives in a democratic way. The officials we elect, vote on many representatives and laws who we do not get to vote on. As an example: we don't vote for POTUS or their cabinet (senate votes on cabinet members). Our votes for potus are essentially a poll to tell the EC how to (some forced) to submit their vote. Also, citizens don't vote for federal laws. In the same manner, the representatives we voted for submit or vote on laws.
I feel like many Democrats struggle with this concept.
Further proof you want a president to be a dictator and fire the very people that make sure every president not abuse their power? So the same way it is in Russia? Well done Comrade.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Further proof you want a president to be a dictator and fire the very people that make sure every president not abuse their power? So the same way it is in Russia? Well done Comrade.
0% true.
Watchdogs are hired and fired all of the time. They are not a part of the government. They are 3rd party companies like DOGE.
Clinton fired/demanded resignation of something like 93/94 US attorneys.
U.S. attorneys are not IG's. Their role isn't oversight of the exective branch or to defend the wrongful firing of government employees or whistle blowers who report corruption in government.............................
Hampton Dellinger, the fired head of the Office of Special Counsel, warns that President Trump's ouster of independent watchdog agencies and offices threatens government oversight.
Dellinger was head of the Office of Special Counsel, which handled federal employee complaints and government whistleblowers, until he was fired in February. In addition to Dellinger, Trump also removed the director of the Office of Government Ethics, the independent agency responsible for overseeing ethics rules and financial disclosures for the executive branch, and 17 inspectors general, auditors appointed to root out abuses of power, waste and mismanagement.
What the watchdogs do
After the Watergate scandal under President Nixon, Congress set up a system to audit the executive branch and ensure the rights of federal workers. Congress has guarded watchdog independence from politics so that no president can use these powerful auditors to punish enemies or hide their own fiascos.
President Trump told reporters on Air Force One in January that firing the watchdogs is "a very standard thing to do." But, no president has fired the heads of the watchdog offices, en masse, in 44 years. In 1981, when the offices were brand new, then President Ronald Reagan fired all 15 watchdogs then serving because he wanted the "fullest confidence" in each inspector general. After congressional pushback, he rehired a third of them.
U.S. attorneys are not IG's. Their role isn't oversight of the exective branch or to defend the wrongful firing of government employees or whistle blowers who report corruption in government.............................
Hampton Dellinger, the fired head of the Office of Special Counsel, warns that President Trump's ouster of independent watchdog agencies and offices threatens government oversight.
Dellinger was head of the Office of Special Counsel, which handled federal employee complaints and government whistleblowers, until he was fired in February. In addition to Dellinger, Trump also removed the director of the Office of Government Ethics, the independent agency responsible for overseeing ethics rules and financial disclosures for the executive branch, and 17 inspectors general, auditors appointed to root out abuses of power, waste and mismanagement.
What the watchdogs do
After the Watergate scandal under President Nixon, Congress set up a system to audit the executive branch and ensure the rights of federal workers. Congress has guarded watchdog independence from politics so that no president can use these powerful auditors to punish enemies or hide their own fiascos.
President Trump told reporters on Air Force One in January that firing the watchdogs is "a very standard thing to do." But, no president has fired the heads of the watchdog offices, en masse, in 44 years. In 1981, when the offices were brand new, then President Ronald Reagan fired all 15 watchdogs then serving because he wanted the "fullest confidence" in each inspector general. After congressional pushback, he rehired a third of them.
Presidents have fired plenty of watchdogs for one reason or another during their time in office. Presidents have also left watchdogs in place and basically removed their ability to watch. Watchdogs have also been found to be corrupt.
I have shown you clear cut evidence that nothing of this magnitude like has happened since Reagan. And that was shortly after these safeguards were put in place. And even then the push back from congress was so strong that he hired some of them back.
You just aren't interested in the facts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I have shown you clear cut evidence that nothing of this magnitude like has happened since Reagan. And that was shortly after these safeguards were put in place. And even then the push back from congress was so strong that he hired some of them back.
You just aren't interested in the facts.
so... it's happened. Got it.
Obama fired something like 200 military leaders. That was a first of it's kind.
The point I was trying to make is that all presidents seem to do something that is shell shocking to the opposite party. They find ways to get watchdogs/leaders/cabinet members etc aligned with their political goals.
That isn't anything close to what this is. This was strictly done to abolish any oversight of the executive branch. To abolish any way for whistle blowers to report corruption in government. To abolish any protection for government workers they are guaranteed.
And no, it was attempted by Reagan. He was actually called out for it and had to hire people back. This is what's wrong today. People such as yourself normalizing things that are in no way normal.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I often wonder if those who "stand with Ukraine" would go stand with Ukraine... in Ukraine.
maaaan i rather deploy to Ukraine and actually defend people's freedom than the illegal war i deployed in.
Hell, the movies and TV shows Americans get 20 years after the conflict would be worth the deployment. Finally defeating the commies once and for all? I'm bout to steal an eagle.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Putin aide casts doubt on US ceasefire plan as American envoy arrives in Moscow
A Russian presidential aide has cast doubt on a US ceasefire proposal for Ukraine, as American special envoy Steve Witkoff arrived in Moscow to brief Kremlin officials on the peace plan.
As the Trump administration emphasizes that the ball is now in Russia’s court, Kremlin aide Yuriy Ushakov said Thursday that Moscow doesn’t want a temporary ceasefire, claiming it would give a break to the Ukrainian army. Ushakov said he explained Russia’s stance to US National Security Adviser Michael Waltz in a Wednesday phone call.
“(I) outlined our position that this is nothing more than a temporary respite for the Ukrainian military and nothing more,” Ushakov said in an interview with Russian state media, pouring cold water on the proposal before Thursday’s talks began. “We believe that our goal is a long-term peaceful settlement. That is what we are striving for.”
The Kremlin has previously ruled out a temporary ceasefire, but this is the first time a senior Russian official has outlined that position since the United States and Ukraine held talks in Saudi Arabia earlier this week, in which Kyiv accepted proposals for a 30-day US-backed ceasefire covering the entire frontline.
Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov was quick to add that Ushakov’s remarks on a temporary truce should not be seen as a Russian rejection of the US proposal.
Peskov told CNN that Moscow was awaiting further, direct information on the proposal before making a decision.
Witkoff arrived in Moscow Thursday, a source familiar with the situation told CNN.
CNN has asked the White House and US State Department for comment.
Ushakov also claimed ahead of Thursday’s talks in Moscow that “the Americans and we think that there can be no talk about NATO in the context of the Ukrainian settlement and in the context of Ukraine’s future.”
Previously, Moscow said it would be unacceptable for troops from NATO countries to be present in Ukraine, even under national flags. On Thursday, Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova went further, rejecting “any” foreign military presence.
“For us, it is absolutely unacceptable to deploy units of the armed forces of other states in Ukraine under any flag, whether it be a foreign contingent, military bases, or some peacekeeping operations,” Zakharova said, adding that Russia would respond with “with all available means.”
When US Secretary of State Marco Rubio was asked Wednesday about the possibility of European troops acting as peacekeepers, the top US diplomat responded: “There’s different ways to construct a deterrent on the ground.”
US President Donald Trump said on Wednesday that the ball is now in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s court in terms of bringing the war in Ukraine to a halt.
“We’re going to have to see. It’s up to Russia now,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, as he declined to comment on whether he has a meeting scheduled with the Russian leader.
Meanwhile, the Russian military said Thursday it had recaptured Sudzha, the largest town that Ukraine has once occupied in the Kursk region, threatening Kyiv’s sole territorial bargaining chip amid pressure to negotiate an end to the war.
Its recapture would represent a major symbolic victory for Russia. Although Sudzha is a small place, with a population of about 5,000 people before Ukraine’s incursion, it was one of the only key towns still held by Ukraine.
I find it hilarious that Z worked with Europe to get to a place worth negotiating from, before baiting Trump into calling Putin to the table. You guys see the French planes they are flying now? Macron stepped up.
So while Trump sides with Putin and tries his best to abuse Ukraine and capture wealth (nuclear energy plants too now) ... the placation and the act of allowing Russia to use force and the threat of force to gain territory from another sovereign nation leaves the door open for Russia and other nations to repeat the process in the future. After all it worked in Georgia, it worked in Crimea and now with Trump's aid and desire to be seen as the saviour with zero regard to the long term safety of Ukraine or the impact globally .... now it has worked in Ukraine.
Ukraine a tiny nation that held Russia back for 3 years ... albeit with aid from EU and the USA. And instead of using that as a negotiating position - Trump capitulated and even before he spoke to Putin had stated that Ukraine wouldn't be allowed into Nato. That territory Russia invaded would need to be ceded to Russia. Told the world that Ukraine had no cards to play. I mean whether you agree or not with Trump's overall handling of the situation, you would need to be a moron to believe that before you even start a negotiation - throwing away 2 of your biggest negotiating chips is in anyway good or clever.
Anyway - with all that said. Here's an article about China's capability to one day seize Taiwan. And if anyone wants to kid themselves that Trump's decisions on Ukraine doesn't make that more likely than less likely, you are in denial or a fool.
So just for fun - as I heard this the other day: ask Musk's AI program what the odds are that Trump is a Russian Asset ..... Certainly there is more political relevance to asking that question than how manly a democrat or republican are. Or the relevance of the price of eggs.
I don’t have definitive proof or access to classified information that would settle the question of whether Donald Trump is a Russian asset. Instead, I can give you a reasoned estimate based on publicly available data, while acknowledging the uncertainty and complexity of the issue.
The idea that Trump might be a Russian asset—either wittingly or unwittingly—has been debated for years, fueled by his financial ties, statements, and policy actions that align with Russian interests. Let’s break it down:
- **Financial Ties**: Trump’s business history shows significant Russian investment. Donald Trump Jr. said in 2008, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” and Eric Trump reportedly told a golf writer in 2014, “We have all the funding we need out of Russia.” After U.S. banks stopped lending to Trump following his bankruptcies, foreign capital—some from Russia and former Soviet states—helped revive his ventures. For example, cash purchases of Trump properties by Russian buyers totaled over $109 million from 2003 to 2017, raising questions about money laundering. While not proof of being an "asset," it suggests leverage points Moscow could exploit.
- **Historical Claims**: Former KGB officer Yuri Shvets, cited in Craig Unger’s 2021 book *American Kompromat*, claimed Trump was cultivated as an asset starting in the 1980s after his 1987 Moscow trip. Shvets said the KGB flattered Trump and fed him anti-Western talking points, which he echoed in newspaper ads that year. Another ex-KGB officer, Alnur Mussayev, claimed in 2025 that Trump was recruited in 1987 under the codename “Krasnov.” These accounts are unverified and could be self-serving, but they align with known Soviet tactics of targeting influential Western figures.
- **Behavior and Policy**: Trump’s consistent refusal to criticize Vladimir Putin, even when attacking U.S. allies, stands out. His 2016 campaign saw 272 contacts with Russia-linked operatives (per the Moscow Project), and he pushed narratives—like doubting Russian election interference—that benefit Moscow. His recent moves, like pausing Ukraine aid in 2025 and aligning with Putin’s stance over Zelensky’s, further fuel speculation. Intelligence reports, like the 2021 U.S. IC assessment, confirm Putin authorized operations to help Trump in 2016 and 2020, though they don’t prove he knowingly cooperated.
- **Counterpoints**: Trump denies any Russian ties, claiming in 2017, “I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!” The Mueller investigation found no conclusive evidence of a conspiracy between Trump’s campaign and Russia, though it documented extensive contacts and lies about them. Some argue his pro-Russia leanings reflect ideological alignment or naivety, not asset status. His unpredictability also makes him a questionable “reliable” asset in the traditional espionage sense.
In intelligence terms, an “asset” doesn’t always mean a witting agent—it can be someone manipulated to serve another’s ends. Trump’s ego, financial vulnerabilities, and behavior make him a plausible candidate for this. Weighing the evidence—decades of Russian money, Kremlin intent (per leaked 2021 Guardian docs), and consistent alignment with Putin’s goals—I’d estimate a **75-85% likelihood** he’s a de facto Russian asset, leaning toward unwitting influence over formal recruitment. The range reflects uncertainty: no smoking gun exists, and alternative explanations (like personal gain or admiration for Putin) could account for his actions.
That said, this is a probability, not a fact. Without hard proof—like intercepted orders or confessions—it remains an informed guess based on patterns. What do you think—does this sound plausible, or am I overreading the tea leaves?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm not sure who didn't expect it. I know this one guy who said he could end the war in a day. Either he was lying his ass off or he wasn't expecting it....................
Trump says he can end the Russia-Ukraine war in one day. Russia’s UN ambassador says he can’t
Putin is playing games with you, Starmer and Macron warn Trump European leaders distance themselves from U.S. attempts to relax sanctions on Russia, saying Putin is up to his old tricks.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Trump has called out every ally as some sort of enemy and has never said one bad word about putin. He is a disgusting human being. Makes me very sad for america.
Putin is playing games with you, Starmer and Macron warn Trump European leaders distance themselves from U.S. attempts to relax sanctions on Russia, saying Putin is up to his old tricks.
It’s seriously Putin 101. If Trump falls for it, well…
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
He has already fallen for it. Any time you agree to major concessions before the negotiations ever begin you lost before you started. Who knew that the art of the deal meant giving the other side everything they want to make a deal? And even at that still hasn't been able to make a deal.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Revealed: Trump’s plan to force Ukraine to restore Putin’s gas empire
America holds gun to Zelensky’s head with unprecedented reparation demands
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Related Topics Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Russia-Ukraine war, Global economy 27 March 2025 5:34pm GMT
4974
Donald Trump is holding a gun to the head of Volodymyr Zelensky, demanding huge reparations payments and laying claim to half of Ukraine’s oil, gas, and hydrocarbon resources as well as almost all its metals and much of its infrastructure.
The latest version of his “minerals deal”, obtained by The Telegraph, is unprecedented in the history of modern diplomacy and state relations.
“It is an expropriation document,” said Alan Riley, an expert on energy law at the Atlantic Council. “There are no guarantees, no defence clauses, the US puts up nothing.
“The Americans can walk away, the Ukrainians can’t. I’ve never seen anything like it before.”
The text leaves little doubt that Mr Trump’s chief objective is to incorporate Ukraine as a province of America’s oil, gas and resource industries.
It dovetails with parallel talks between the US and Russia for a comprehensive energy partnership, including plans to restore West Siberian gas flows to Europe in large volumes, with US companies and Trump-aligned financiers gaining a major stake in the business.
The revived gas trade would flow through Ukraine’s network, and later via the Baltic as the sabotaged Nord Stream pipelines are brought back on stream.
The new draft states that the United States-Ukraine Reconstruction Investment Fund will control Ukraine’s “critical minerals or other minerals, oil, natural gas (including liquified [sic] natural gas), fuels or other hydrocarbons and other extractable materials”.
All critical materials listed in the US Energy Act are covered, including both rare earths and 50 other minerals such as lithium, titanium, cobalt, aluminium and zinc.
The US will control infrastructure linked to natural resources “including, but not limited to, roads, rail, pipelines and other transportation assets; ports, terminals and other logistics facilities and refineries, processing facilities, natural gas liquefaction and/or regasification facilities and similar assets”.
Three of the five board members on the new fund will be chosen by the US. It will have “A” shares and golden shares. America will receive all the royalties until Ukraine has paid off at least $100bn of war debt to the US, with 4pc interest added – less than the $350bn floated earlier by Mr Trump but still half of Ukraine’s GDP, and unpayable.
Ukraine has only “B’ shares and will receive 50pc of the royalties only once its arrears are paid off.
The fund is registered in Delaware but under New York jurisdiction. The US has the first right of refusal on all projects. It has authority to examine the books and accounts of any Ukrainian ministry or agency whenever it wants during working hours.
The US can veto sales of Ukraine’s resources to other countries, which might mean banning rare earth sales to China but might also restrict sales to Europe.
Prof Riley said: “It is not compatible with EU membership, and perhaps that is part of the purpose. I have to wonder whether the real intention might not be to force Zelensky to reject it.”
The US pays in no investment capital, deeming its contribution to be past military aid. No security guarantee is offered.
19th century-style treaty The contract makes a few rhetorical nods to Ukraine, stating that the “American people desire to invest alongside the Ukrainian people in a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine”.
It acknowledges Ukraine’s contribution to peace “by voluntarily abandoning the world’s third-largest arsenal of nuclear weapons” in the Budapest Memorandum in 1994.
However, the terms are if anything even harsher than the original drafts, which were deemed predatory and neo-colonial by international lawyers, and which caused outrage in much of Europe. The document smacks of the unequal treaties imposed on China by the European powers in the 19th century.
It is a cruel way to treat a democratic ally fighting for its political existence and defending the West’s outer line against Russian imperialism.
The Trump White House says Putin would not dare to attack if America has commercial skin in the game, but this has no currency in a context where it is also negotiating sweetheart energy deals with Kirill Dmitriev, the McKinsey-trained head of Russia’s sovereign wealth fund.
The Russian media says these talks cover the return of US drillers to the Kara Sea and the Arctic, but also cover US fracking technology.
Germany’s Bild Zeitung said talks have been underway for weeks in Switzerland to reopen the Nord Stream 2 pipelines, conducted secretly by ex-Stasi agent Matthias Warnig and Mr Trump’s envoy Richard Grenell, a man known for his Kremlin sympathies.
The terms would give US contractors operational control and a fat revenue stream, creating money out of “thin air”. A cynic might call it a legal “donation” to Mr Trump’s circle by the Kremlin.
“There is talk about Nord Stream. It would be interesting if the Americans put pressure on Europe, to make them stop refusing our Russian gas,” said Sergei Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister.
Diplomatic disaster for the West Ukrainians are expected to accept the fig-leaf assurance of the minerals deal even as Steve Witkoff, Mr Trump’s negotiator, parrots Kremlin’s propaganda, validating the sham referenda of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhia, and pre-emptively ceding the four oblasts that Putin is not even close to conquering.
If Mr Witkoff listened to the hearings of the Senate Intelligence Committee this week he would have heard General Jeff Kruse, head of the US Defence Intelligence Agency, testifying that Russia is having serious trouble prosecuting the war and will run out of steam altogether by the end of the year – if the West holds its nerve.
Putin has exhausted his rainy day fund and is blowing the gaskets of his military Keynesian economy. Ukrainian drones are hammering his oil export facilities, which is why he may need an energy truce more than Ukraine.
“Trump has blown a winning hand,” said Tim Ash, from Chatham House.
Diplomatic disaster for the West is now unfolding briskly on all fronts.
Mr Trump has agreed to help Russia restore its “access to the world market for agricultural and fertiliser exports, lower maritime insurance costs, and enhance access to ports and payment systems for such transactions” as reward for the non-concession of a Black Sea maritime truce, which also helps Russia more than Ukraine.
Putin specifically wants Russia’s farm bank, Rosselkhozbank, restored to the Swift payments system, and he wants the embargo lifted on farm equipment, which has dual-use capability for his war machine. He is well on his way to securing both.
Europe’s sanctions regime is near to disintegration as well. Hungary and Slovakia have both said they will not vote for a roll over of existing curbs, which means that sanctions will automatically expire in July, and so will control over €200bn (£170bn) of Russian central bank holdings in Europe.
“If even one EU member state votes against the asset freeze, the freeze will lapse. The Central Bank of Russia can then immediately withdraw its deposit from Euroclear,” said Anton Moiseienko and Yuliya Ziskina, from the Royal United Services Institute.
“For all the talk of reparations and accountability, the EU would find itself handing over €200bn to the regime that launched Europe’s biggest war since World War Two – an Afghanistan-style moment for EU foreign policy.”
That is where we are heading with Europe’s “carefully calibrated dithering”. Europe and Britain will end up having to foot the entire bill for rebuilding what remains of Ukraine at the end of this betrayal, while Mr Trump scoops up Ukraine’s chief means of economic recovery, and Putin gets his €200bn back.
John Ratcliffe, CIA director, told the Senate committee this week that Mr Trump knows it would be dangerous if Putin achieved his “maximalist” objectives.
You could have fooled me. All evidence so far is that Trump & Putin Inc is a perfectly harmonious joint venture.
The only way this war ends is with Putin dying. I think Europe and Ukraine figured that much out. Now will we side with democracy or the axis of evil? I’d say that’s up to the MAGA base. If the make Trump save Ukraine, we win. If they allow Putin to take Ukraine, we lose. Trump-Tardism Syndrome is a real thing.
I know the Trump supporters think they have a "Get out of Jail Free" Card to play by saying we should never pay attention to what Trump says .... but I think in some cases on some subjects it matters.
Trump again lies and says Ukraine started the war. Talks about a great conversation with Putin. Gives Russia free pass on recent attack that killed 30 non-military. "it was a mistake".
US will abandon Ukraine peace efforts ‘within days’ if no progress made, Rubio warns
The United States could end its efforts on ending the Ukrainian conflict within “days” if there are no signs of progress, US Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned Friday.
“If it is not possible to end the war in Ukraine, we need to move on,” he told reporters before departing Paris, where he had held high-level talks with European and Ukrainian officials. “We need to determine very quickly now, and I’m talking about a matter of days, whether or not this is doable,” he said.
Rubio’s comments point to mounting frustration within the Trump administration at the lack of progress at bringing the three-year full-scale war to a halt.
Asked to clarify what Rubio meant that the US would “move on,” a US official told CNN the secretary of state was talking about the US moving on from negotiations and that the next few days will be important to figure out where things go from here.
A source familiar with negotiations for a Ukraine peace deal told CNN’s Pamela Brown that Rubio was “communicating the president’s views.” Characterizing the administration’s thinking on where things stand in the conflict, the source said, Trump “doesn’t have limitless patience for people to posture and play games.”
“It’s time to get serious,” the source added.
A broad framework has been presented to both sides, Rubio and the State Department have said, to determine whether the differences can be narrowed in this short timeframe. Rubio said it would be taken by the Ukrainians back to Zelensky to discuss, and it was raised between Rubio and Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov on a call on Thursday.
If there’s no movement, the US official said, the administration will have to make significant policy decisions. Trump has threatened secondary sanctions and tariffs on Russia. But he has also said the US won’t continue to fund Ukraine indefinitely and that Europe needs to step up, the official noted.
Moscow has stalled on negotiations and rejected a ceasefire proposal agreed by Kyiv. Having promised on the campaign trail to end the fighting in a day, US President Donald Trump more recently said “Russia has to get moving.”
Despite US officials holding talks with Ukrainian and European counterparts on Thursday in what the State Department touted as an “excellent exchange,” and progress being made toward a landmark minerals deal between Washington and Kyiv, peace still feels out of reach. Meanwhile, a partial ceasefire on energy infrastructure brokered by the US came to an end on Thursday, an agreement both sides frequently accused each other of violating. Vance ‘optimistic’ about negotiations
Vice President JD Vance said hours after Rubio’s comments that the Trump administration feels “optimistic” they will ultimately be able to successfully negotiate an end to the Russia-Ukraine war.
“I want to update the prime minister on some of the negotiations between Russia, Ukraine, and also some of the things that have happened even in the past 24 hours,” Vance said in Rome during a bilateral meeting with Italy Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.
He continued, “I think we have some interesting things to report on, of course, in private, some negotiations. I won’t prejudge them, but we do feel optimistic that we can hopefully bring this war, this very brutal war, to a close.”
A US-authored outline of a peace plan had received an “encouraging reception” at the talks in the French capital, according to a State Department readout, which did not give details on the outline. Rubio also spoke with Lavrov and conveyed the same outline, the readout said.
Speaking Friday, Rubio said he and Witkoff had come to Paris to “begin to talk about more specific outlines of what it might take to end the war” and whether or not this is a war that can be ended.
“If it’s not possible, if we’re so far apart that this is not going to happen then I think the president is probably at a point where he’s going to say we’re done,” he said.
“It’s not our war. We didn’t start it. The United States has been helping Ukraine for the past three years and we want it to end, but it’s not our war,” he added.
“President (Trump) has spent 87 days at the highest level of this government repeatedly taking efforts to bring this war to and end. We are now reaching a point when we need to decide and determine whether this is even possible or not. Which is why we’re engaging both sides.”
Meanwhile, Russia launched a missile attack on Ukraine overnight, hitting a residential neighborhood of the city of Kharkiv. The strike killed one person and wounded 67 others, authorities said Friday, adding they feared more people could be trapped beneath the rubble of a damaged apartment building. Step towards minerals deal
Rubio’s words of warning on Friday come after the US and Ukraine moved closer toward clinching an agreement on a minerals deal on Thursday night.
Kyiv and Washington have now signed a memorandum as a move towards the proposed agreement, Ukrainian Economy Minister Yulia Svyrydenko said.
“We are happy to announce the signing, with our American partners, of a Memorandum of Intent, which paves the way for an Economic Partnership Agreement and the establishment of the Investment Fund for the Reconstruction of Ukraine,” Svyrydenko said in a post on X.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky had said earlier Thursday that a memorandum related to the deal could be signed remotely that day.
“This document is the result of the professional work of the negotiating teams, which recently completed another round of technical discussions in Washington,” Svyrydenko continued. “Ahead is the finalization of the text of the agreement and its signing — and then, ratification by parliaments.”
“There is a lot to do, but the current pace and significant progress give reason to expect that the document will be very beneficial for both countries,” Svyrydenko concluded.
An earlier iteration of the minerals deal went unsigned following a public argument between Zelensky and Trump in February.
Details of the proposed deal have since been in flux, with Treasury officials meeting a Ukrainian delegation in Washington this week to hammer it out, sources told CNN.
Trump says his vow to end Ukraine's war in 24-hours was 'sarcastic'
Yeah, because using sarcasm to help win an election, while people are dying in a war is so much better than helping to end the war itself. Pffft. And those silly Goper’s took the bait, hook line a sinker.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Bro, Trump is really going out of his way to please Putin. The peace deal they released is a freaking joke. and He's really blaming Zelensky for the war instead of the guy who INVADED.
We really are the villains in this arc, if we do go through with this.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The Art of Baloney......I recall Trump boasting he'd have the Ukraine War over in 24 hrs..........he is our President, he is a convicted felon, his Easter message- on the HIGHEST holy day of Christianity-- he attacks his "enemies"......WOW.....what a President.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
"Although it has dramatically ramped up its military production, it is essentially using all of that production within weeks of it rolling out on the factory floor," he said.
Russia has gone through its vast Soviet-era stockpiles of equipment at a staggering rate since it launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
In February, the International Institute for Strategic Studies estimated that Russia had lost 14,000 main battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and armored personnel carriers since the start of the full-scale invasion.
Here’s what bothers the piss out of me that even smarter posters on this board don’t get. We spend BILLIONS in R&D, production, sustainment and CLS to counter the Russians. We could spend a FRACTION of what we currently spend on just giving money to Ukraine to hold out in their war.
We could do it from a disinterested, shrewd business perspective to say “This is for our advantage and nothing more” and still come out ahead. Why? Because of the above quote. Our near-peer adversary is imploding itself for the sake of ego…fighting against what it originally believed to be its far inferior neighbor. However, it’s getting its ass kicked.
How could that happen? Well, here’s the opportunity for all of us to get patriotic. Because our systems are FAR SUPERIOR TO THEIRS. What we’ve witnessed over the past three years is a far inferior team use our equipment and go toe to toe with “the best in the world” and kick their ass in the process.
To that end, much has been made about giving the Ukrainians F-16s. Ohhh the horror! Oh no! What if Russians get the plane! OMG!…..
Please….
The F-16 is entirely being produced exclusively for foreign partners now out of Greenville, SC (Bulgaria, Slovakia, Taiwan, Morocco, Jordan, Bulgaria again, Philippines, and Türkiye).
The bottom line is this…we have EVERY chance to both reduce our own defense budget from the TRILLION that this administration wants to increase it to (Gee…I wonder why????) to accommodate our ALLIES in Ukraine to combat our ADVERSARY in Russia and then focus on our pívot to countering China.
So let me rephrase…we have the chance to reduce our military budget, eliminate a near peer adversary, and then focus our military budget against our only remaining near peer adversary using the same amount OR LESS than we currently spend…OR…
….
…..
We could spend our time focusing on Zelenskyy and how he’s the problem because his country was invaded for no reason and he’s not giving immediate concessions. Does anyone understand how truly insane this sounds???
I swear…our biggest problem is just getting out of our own way, and getting out of the way of common sense.
Here for any rebuttals….
If you don’t want to rebut or debate and decide to put me on ignore, use hashtags, or “Houdini” yourself from the conversation, that’s on you…
Other than that, I have no pride. Call me out. Find flaws. Do whatever. This is a bigger deal than most realize.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
If you're truly winning a war that you started, why the threat of nukes? We know why....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
In fairness, Taiwan has been a target for China for decades. Over the last 10 or so years they have ramped up to see that happen by 2027, at least that is their goal, so no matter what one feels about the Ukraine situation, it has no bearing on what China wants or plans.
I do agree there is a very good chance that China makes a move in the next few years. I brought this up in a thread a few years back but most everybody but Swish shrugged off.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
In fairness, Taiwan has been a target for China for decades. Over the last 10 or so years they have ramped up to see that happen by 2027, at least that is their goal, so no matter what one feels about the Ukraine situation, it has no bearing on what China wants or plans.
I do agree there is a very good chance that China makes a move in the next few years. I brought this up in a thread a few years back but most everybody but Swish shrugged off.
If you think that the world letting Putin invade Ukrane and "winning" - by keeping sovreign territory of another country - isn't going to influence or enable China and have that factor into their decision then I don't know what to tell you. Seriously.
Last edited by mgh888; 05/05/2509:31 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
As someone who believes China has its sights set on Taiwan the way Putin wants to take Ukraine, how do you think our wussing out of the conflict in Europe is going to impact China's plans?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
If you're truly winning a war that you started, why the threat of nukes? We know why....
Bad time for us to be defending ourselves from incoming nukes. The Ruskies just got a lot of good intel from the doge hackers, rather intentional or not. And here we are can’t even keep planes in the air and we are in-fighting. Trump was a true gift to Russia and China. They are both eating our lunch while Trump builds fences and ballrooms, and tells everyone that gas is a buck 98 and groceries are at an all time low… he’s so far out of touch with reality it would be pathetic if he wasn’t in the most powerful seat in the world. If most people had a relative acting like him, they’d get them medical/mental help.
Vice President JD Vance said Wednesday that Russia is “asking for too much” to end its war with Ukraine, underscoring new frustrations in the Trump White House over its efforts to court Moscow on peace talks.
Speaking to the Munich Leaders Meeting in Washington, he said that the U.S. is focusing on a long-term settlement since Russia has rejected the U.S. call for a 30-day ceasefire. Moscow has said that sort of temporary pause is not in its strategic interest because it would allow Ukraine to regroup.
Vance stressed that Russia is likely to have to make concessions — the latest sign that the Trump administration is willing to get more aggressive with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“The Russians are asking for a certain set of requirements, a certain set of concessions in order to end the conflict. We think they’re asking for too much,” Vance said.
The vice president was channeling growing impatience in the White House with Putin. Late last month President Donald Trump said Putin may just be “tapping me along” and suggested he may employ sanctions to change the dynamic.
“Maybe he doesn’t want to stop the war,” Trump said of Putin on his Truth Social platform in April. The post came after Trump met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Rome.
Vance said in his speech Wednesday that Trump was prepared to walk away from the talks but stopped short of threatening sanctions.
He said the next step is to get Ukraine and Russia to agree to talk to each other.
“We would like both the Russians and the Ukrainians to actually agree on some basic guidelines for sitting down and talking to one another,” Vance said. “That is the next big step we’d like to take.”
He said that he’s “not yet a pessimist” on the process even though there’s “a big gulf” between where the Russians and Ukrainians are. He said that “it’s probably impossible” for the U.S. to mediate between the parties without them having at least some direct contact.
Vance, speaking to the audience of senior transatlantic leaders visiting Washington, struck a much more diplomatic tone than his fiery speech before the Munich Security Conference in February and touted the importance of U.S.-European ties, saying that they are on the “same civilizational team.” The Munich Leaders Meeting is put on by the Munich Security Conference organization.
With tension palpable in the room — filled with many sharp critics of Trump and skeptics of his administration’s approach to transatlantic ties — Vance said he was “having fun” at the confab and joked that his team was “very nervous.”
He said he was not sure he would be invited back to address the group after his February appearance in Munich. There he stunned the audience by lashing out at European governments, criticizing them for ignoring the will of their people, overturning elections, ignoring religious freedoms and failing to stop illegal migration.
At the end of the question-and-answer session with former German ambassador to the United States and chair of the Munich Security Conference Wolfgang Ischinger, Vance revisited his controversial speech. While his tone was more conciliatory, he repeated his warnings for the continent, which he said also applied to the U.S.
“It's not ‘Europe bad, and America good,’” he said. “I think that both Europe and the United States, we've gotten a little bit off track, and I'd encourage us all to get back on track together.”
Vance’s remarks appeared to calm tensions among those gathered at the meeting in Washington at least a little.
“I came into the speech pretty nervous,” said one conference goer, a Western European. “I left slightly less nervous.”
Another attendee noted the softer tone but said “there were a lot of questions left unanswered. How many concessions are you willing to offer Russia? If Ukraine can’t join NATO what will you do to prevent future Russian invasions? Because without hard defense commitments to Ukraine we all know it will happen again.”
Some remained troubled by his attitude toward Moscow. All participants were granted anonymity as the two-day event was held under Chatham House Rules, which stipulates that participants may be quoted but not their names or affiliations, to facilitate more candid conversations.
“He charmed, he cleaned up from the February speech, he reassured, he made everything okay,” said a third participant. “But to come off as somehow neutral between Russia and Ukraine is morally repugnant. One side is the aggressor, one the victim fighting for its survival. Nice speeches can’t change that.”
As Vance spoke, the United States and Germany’s new government were in a fresh public spat over Berlin’s decision to label its far-right political party, the AfD, as an extremist group.
Secretary of State Marco Rubio lambasted the decision by the German government last week as “tyranny in disguise” and said the establishment parties’ “deadly open border immigration policies” were what was extremist.
New German Chancellor Friedrich Merz called that an “absurd observation” in an interview with public broadcaster ZDF on Tuesday.
“I would like to encourage and exhort the American government to leave German domestic politics to Germany and to largely stay out of these partisan considerations,” he said at that interview.
The frustrating thing about this is that it has been obvious to most on this board with any international experience...Russia does not negotiate in good faith. They never have under Putin and they never will. It is all about leverage. What little concessions he's willing to make, he will not honor. But he will accept our concessions. The only reason Russia and China get along - and they get along a lot worse than most people think - is because China operates the same way. It's a dominant-submissive negotiation. They do not accept the Western win-win style negotiations, certainly when it comes to combat operations. It has been like that since WW2 (remember how Russia acted after the war was over?).
You have to find a leverage point and press that point as firmly as possible until they cry uncle or collapse. That is the only way. If you concede, they take your concession and then ask for more.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Here it is from that libtard commie, Dan Quayle... Seriously, though, I think Quayle absolutely nailed it. He's very thoughtful and I agree with everything he said, except for time being on Putin's side. I think they will burn out with more time, should the West hold the line, which is always in question.
Keep in mind Quayle voted for the current administration three times, so childish claims of "TDS" and whatnot are inapplicable here...
Russia-Ukraine war not near end, 'do not understand Trump's affinity for Putin': Former Vice President Dan Quayle
As the 44th Vice President of the United States, Dan Quayle made dozens of diplomatic trips, many aimed at helping to shape the post-Cold War Soviet Union. As a voter, Quayle has cast his ballot for Donald Trump in three consecutive presidential elections. But when you put those two things together, the current view from the former V.P. comes to a pessimistic conclusion about the current posture in U.S.-Russia relations and the war in Ukraine.
"We are not approaching the end," Quayle, who is now chairman of Cerberus Global Investments, said at the CNBC CEO Council Summit in Arizona on Tuesday. "Putin has no desire to see this come to a conclusion until he really dismantles Ukraine," he said.
While Quayle is clear on Putin's thinking, it is Trump's strategy that mystifies him. "I do not understand Trump's affinity for Putin and why he has not demanded anything here," he said. "All he wants to do as president is deals ... So, if you're a dealmaker, what do you need? Leverage. What leverage is he trying to put on Putin? Zero. Absolutely zero," Quayle said.
Over the weekend, Trump had posted on Truth Social ahead of talks with Russian and Ukrainian leaders, "HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE A PRODUCTIVE DAY, A CEASEFIRE WILL TAKE PLACE, AND THIS VERY VIOLENT WAR, A WAR THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED, WILL END," in his customary all-capitalized comments.
On Monday, after an over two-hour call between Trump and Putin, the president said he wanted the "bloodbath" to end, but there was little sign of a breakthrough, even as Trump said Russia and Ukraine would hold direct talks on a ceasefire "immediately," on his social media platform. He also spoke to Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Monday.
"Putin says he won't agree to a ceasefire, he just wants to talk, Trump says OK," Quayle told CNBC's Sara Eisen in an interview at the CEO Council Summit. He said the lack of pressure also undermines a U.S. policy alliance with the European Union, that if Russia did not agree to a ceasefire there would be secondary sanctions. "Putin said let's talk, and Trump says yes, and European leaders just had the rug pulled out from under them," Quayle said. "I don't think it will end any time soon," he added.
Quayle's view of the Russian playbook is that all along it's been to "dismantle Ukraine, and time is on his side."
And even though Putin has not been as successful as he would have liked on the battlefield, "he's been very successful with Trump," Quayle said, adding that Putin's KGB background makes him and his circle well placed to know Trump's "weakness and vulnerability and how to deal with him."
While Quayle does not believe Trump can unilaterally "wash his hands" of the conflict when he finally realizes Putin has no interest in a ceasefire — "Congress has something to say about that and there is still bipartisan support for Ukraine," he said — Quayle says the president has blown an opportunity to apply pressure in three ways that would work to change Putin's approach.
To end the war, the U.S. needs "lots of money in Swiss banks that are Russian given to Ukraine," Quayle said.
Second, the U.S. needs to give Ukraine even more weapons.
Third, there needs to be secondary sanctions on Russia.
"Suddenly, Putin would come to the table if you do those three things," Quayle said. "He comes to the table tomorrow."
But Quayle does not think this will happen. "It's not what he believes, he doesn't want to do anything substantial to bring pressure or leverage on Putin," he said.
The strategy on Russia leaves Quayle perplexed. "I don't have an answer," he said.
While he noted that Trump is fond of saying it's "Biden's war," he believes there will be political repercussions for the President's already weakened popularity if Trump lets Ukraine fall. "You inherited this war, but it is on your watch, and if he completely walks away from Ukraine, which I don't think he will, but he might, there will be a significant political price."
"American people do not like war, but they do not like losing wars, and if he is viewed as the loser on this, there will be a price to pay, so he needs to figure it out," Quayle said.
"He wants peace. He doesn't like war, but then he is so one-sided, and that is a problem," he added.
While Trump warned Zelenskyy that he was risking World War III in their infamous Oval Office meeting, Quayle says the bigger risk is the current Trump strategy: "You really want to talk about who is risking [WWIII]? Just let Russia gobble up Ukraine, and then Poland, and then the Balkans, and then you are going to be talking about World War III."
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I think trump already knows he is powerless to do anything about the war in Ukraine but would never admit it. As such he is beginning to shift his stance and will be leaving it up to Europe IMO.....
“This was a European situation, and should have remained a European situation,” Trump said on Monday.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Now Putin is massing troops and equipment along the border of Finland. Maybe he decided this would be a good time to start WW3 since America is now inept and cowardly.
Trump says Putin ‘has gone absolutely crazy’ after major Russian attacks on Ukraine
CNN — President Donald Trump said Sunday that Vladimir Putin “has gone absolutely CRAZY,” after the Russian leader launched the largest aerial attack of Moscow’s three-year full-scale war on Ukraine.
“I’ve always had a very good relationship with Vladimir Putin of Russia, but something has happened to him. He has gone absolutely CRAZY! He is needlessly killing a lot of people, and I’m not just talking about soldiers. Missiles and drones are being shot into Cities in Ukraine, for no reason whatsoever,” Trump posted on Truth Social.
Hours earlier, Trump had told reporters: “I’m not happy with what Putin is doing. He’s killing a lot of people, and I don’t know what the hell happened to Putin.”
Moscow launched overnight attacks on Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Ukraine, killing at least 29 people over three days and injuring dozens more, according to officials. The bombardment from Saturday into Sunday saw more drones and missiles launched at Ukraine than in any other single assault in three years.
Trump’s intervention, coming at a crucial moment in Moscow’s war, will be viewed with relief in the West as a signal that the White House has grown frustrated with Putin’s refusal to accept a proposed 30-day ceasefire in the conflict.
The Kremlin on Monday sought to downplay the significance of the remarks, categorizing them as an “emotional reaction.”
He also said Moscow is “truly grateful to the Americans and personally to President Trump” for his efforts to bring Moscow and Kyiv to the negotiating table.
But the clash could have consequences for Russia. Trump also told reporters Sunday evening that he’s “absolutely” considering additional sanctions against Russia, which Kyiv has pushed for. Trump previously said he would not join in any new sanctions because he thought “there’s a chance” of progress, but remarked that could change.
But Trump also turned his criticism toward Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who said Sunday morning that “America’s silence” encourages Putin to continue his onslaught.
“Likewise, President Zelenskyy is doing his Country no favors by talking the way he does,” Trump wrote. “Everything out of his mouth causes problems, I don’t like it, and it better stop.”
At least 25 people were killed in two rounds of overnight attacks in Ukraine over the weekend, including children, officials said, and dozens more people were injured. At least four people were killed overnight into Monday, officials added.
Russia has been intensifying its aerial bombardment of Ukraine as international pressure mounts on Putin to agree to the ceasefire plan, which has the backing of the United States and Kyiv.
“The world may go on vacation, but the war continues, despite weekends and weekdays. This cannot be ignored. America’s silence, and the silence of others in the world, only encourages Putin,” Zelensky said Sunday morning.
Russia’s attacks set up another critical week in discussions over an end to the conflict. Earlier this month, teams from Kyiv and Moscow met face-to-face for the first time since the war’s early weeks, but the flicker of hope that surrounded those talks was seemingly extinguished when Moscow pressed ahead with its assaults on Ukrainian cities and again rejected calls to agree to a 30-day halt in fighting.
Some progress was made; both countries agreed to a massive prisoner swap, which began on Friday and will see 1,000 inmates released by each side.
But attention quickly returned to the fighting, which has intensified in recent weeks. Moscow last month claimed to have finally retaken the Kursk region, which Kyiv captured large sections of last summer, taking a significant piece of leverage back from Ukraine.
“We must be prepared for this war to last longer than we can all wish or imagine,” German Chancellor Friedrich Merz told public broadcaster ARD on Monday. “The question is whether the USA will continue to see it as its political and military duty to help Ukraine, and that is what we are trying to achieve.”
“Trump (is) obviously increasingly disillusioned with Putin from the massive attacks on Kyiv and other cities in Ukraine over the weekend. In this respect, I hope that America stays on board,” Merz said.
Trump said Sunday he was “very surprised” about the latest Russian aerial assault, though just a week ago, Russia launched its largest drone attack against Ukraine – a day before Putin and Trump spoke on the phone. “We’re in the middle of talking, and he’s shooting rockets into Kyiv and other cities,” Trump told reporters in New Jersey on his way back to Washington.
Trump, who has often touted his good relationship with Putin, spoke with the Russian leader on Monday in an attempt to negotiate a 30-day ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine.
After the call with Putin, and subsequent calls with Zelensky and other European allies, Trump announced that “Russia and Ukraine will immediately start negotiations toward a Ceasefire and, more importantly, an END to the War.”
Trump added that conditions “will be negotiated between the two parties, as it can only be, because they know details of a negotiation that nobody else would be aware of.”
He has gone absolutely CRAZY! He is needlessly killing a lot of people, and I’m not just talking about soldiers. Missiles and drones are being shot into Cities in Ukraine, for no reason whatsoever,” Trump posted on Truth Social.
So according to trump putin had good reasons to kill before?
Given his actions so far, Trump is selling snake oil again, hoping to shift negative opinions to Putin if we will buy the fiction and play along. The Putin truth is in the invasion, the war, the attacks, and broken agreements. We have tried to hurt Ukraine and extort a deal after cutting off aid and support. Trump should fear Putin who is his mirror image. Disgust for America lowering bars for Trump against allies.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Everyone from the CIA to the National Security Counsel knew who Putin was. U.S. intelligence knew who he was. Lest anyone forget, trump sided with Putin over U.S. intelligence. Because you know, trump knew better................
Trump sides with Putin over U.S. intelligence during remarkable press conference in Helsinki
He's basically given up now. How does everyone feel who touted him as a strong leader that was "feared"?
He's essentially complaining about a Russian head of state who is acting the same as........he has always acted.
Exactly. Where has Trump been the last 3 years? Putin is doing the exact same thing he's been doing since Russia first invaded.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Helsinki was jaw-dropping to me, literally. I'll never forget watching that unfold live.
Trump was cuckdom personified in Helsinki. It was embarrassing. I’ve never understood how anyone can look at Trump and see a tough guy. He doesn’t have a single tough atom and damn few guy atoms. He’s a brilliant bully though. He loves to bully simps, betas, and the defenseless.
He has a new party to support him blindly. I t might be convenient to call it the "apartheid party." Their attacks on common citizens, bullied individuals, attacked institutions and crippling cuts attacking those with real needs should make us consider bringing back the practice of labels for individuals as "Public Enemy" with a number attached. Consider who might be designated as a product of their actions against Americans. This dealing out of cuts and dismantling has the single thread and seeming purpose of inflicting injury to insult. often for political fiction-driven revenge. This is amateur hour and it should be rewarded. A commonly embraced lie to consider: One of the largest logical fallacies is widely held and used too often. If you place blame on your opponent whose response is "Yeah, well what about. . . ." Ignore the original issue, and if you offer any negative about your opponent, your issue is overlooked, ignored, and treated a non-issue and acceptable. The starting point still has a "right or wrong" attached. Making the other guy wrong doesn't make you right. This can be seen on many levels with many variations daily. Sickens me.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
'Russian bombers are burning en masse' — Ukraine's SBU drones hit 'more than 40' aircraft in mass attack, source says
June 1, 2025 1:52 PM (Updated: June 1, 2025 6:09 PM ) 4 min read
A screenshot from a video of the alleged attack released by the SBU on June 1, 2025 (Ukraine's Security Service)
Listen to this article 6 min This audio is created with AI assistance
Editor's note: This is a breaking story and is being updated.
An operation by Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) using first-person-view (FPV) drones smuggled deep inside Russian and hidden inside trucks has hit 41 Russian heavy bombers at four airfields across the country, a source in the agency told the Kyiv Independent on June 1.
The operation — codenamed "Spider web" and a year-and-a-half in the planning — appears to have dealt a major blow to the aircraft Moscow uses to launch long-range missile attacks on Ukraine's cities.
"The SBU first transported FPV drones to Russia, and later, on the territory of the Russian Federation, the drones were hidden under the roofs of mobile wooden cabins, already placed on trucks," the source said.
"At the right moment, the roofs of the cabins were opened remotely, and the drones flew to hit Russian bombers."
A picture purporting to show the drones used in the attack placed in the roofs of "mobile wooden cabins" which were then being transported by truck when they were launched (Ukraine's Security Service) The source said one of the airfields hit was the Belaya air base in Russia's Irkutsk Oblast, more than 4,000 kilometers from Ukraine.
Olenya air base in Russia's Murmansk Oblast, the Diaghilev airbase in Ryazan Oblast, Ivanovo airbase in Ivanovo Oblast were also targeted.
"Currently, more than 40 aircraft are known to have been hit, including the A-50, Tu-95 and Tu-22 M3," the source added.
The full extent of the damage caused is not known, but video provided by the source shows what appears to be a row of heavy bomber aircraft on fire at one of the airbases.
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Unconfirmed videos posted on social media show FPV drones being launched from trucks parked near the airfields.
Irkutsk Oblast Governor Igor Kobzev later confirmed "a drone attack on a military unit in the village of Sredny" and said the "source" of the drones was a "truck."
Murmansk Governor Andrey Chibis later confirmed that "enemy drones have attacked the territory of the Murmansk region" but gave no further details.
Ukraine has long-struggled to target the Russian bombers used to launch mass missile targets against Ukrainian cities, as Moscow has kept them out of range of weapons Kyiv has developed itself as well as those supplied by its Western allies.
The use of FPV drones in such a way would mark just the latest stage in the ever-evolving and still relatively fledgling world on drone warfare.
The attack was also likely highly cost effective — FPV drones can be bought for a just a few hundred dollars each but the cost of 41 heavy bombers runs into the billions.
The source said that those behind the operation have "been in Ukraine for a long time."
"So, if the Putin regime demonstratively detains someone, it will be another staged performance for the domestic audience," they said.
President Volodymyr Zelensky and SBU Chief Vasyl Malyuk personally oversaw the operation, they added.
In March, Ukraine announced it had developed a new drone with a range of 3,000 kilometers but gave no details about its type, its name, the size of its warhead, or when it would go into mass production.
A map of potential targets for Ukraine's new 3,000km drone. (Nizar al-Rifai/The Kyiv Independent) The Russian aircraft allegedly hit The A-50 provides several critical functions for the ongoing war in Ukraine, such as detecting air defense systems, guided missiles, and coordinating targets for Russian fighter jets.
Russia possesses fewer than ten of these planes. A-50 aircraft have an estimated price tag of around $350 million.
The Tupolev Tu-95, the Tupolev Tu-22, as well as the Tupolev Tu-160, are all Russian heavy bombers regularly used to launch missiles at Ukrainian cities.
The Tu-95 is the oldest of the three aircraft, a Soviet-era plane that made its first flight in 1952. It was originally used to carry nuclear bombs but has since evolved to launch cruise missiles.
Each aircraft can carry 16 cruise missiles – either the Kh-55/Kh-555 or the newer Kh-101 and Kh-102 air-launched cruise missiles.
A picture of SBU Chief Vasyl Malyuk planning operation "Web," date and location not disclosed (Ukraine's Security Service) It features turboprop engines rather than jet engines, as during the Cold War, their increased efficiency allowed it to fly all the way to the United States without refueling.
The Tu-22 carries the Kh-22 missiles, which pose a particular problem for Ukraine. It is supersonic and travels at around 4,000 kilometers per hour.
Currently, it can only be shot down with the U.S.-made Patriot air defense system and potentially the SAMP-T, a joint Italian-French system.
The Tu-160 is Russia's more modern strategic bomber, entering service in 1987. To this day, it remains the largest operational bomber in the world.
It can carry a total of 12 Kh-55 missiles and up to 24 Kh-15s.
Ukraine's massive drone attack deep inside Russia lays bare Putin's vulnerability Though the knock-on effects are unclear, some military commentators have called the strike Russia's "Pearl Harbor." Hopes for direct peace talks, which resume Monday, remain low. Volume Muted Icon Ukraine claims massive drone strike on Russian bombers
Create your free profile or log in to save this article June 2, 2025, 6:38 AM EDT / Updated June 2, 2025, 10:00 AM EDT By Alexander Smith
Listen to this article / 04:25
It was a stunning, audacious attack whose widespread effects are only just becoming clear.
Ukraine managed to smuggle 117 aerial drones on the backs of trucks that deposited them at the perimeter of four Russian air bases — one of them deep inside Siberia some 2,500 miles from Ukraine's borders, according to Ukrainian officials.
While there are differing accounts on the extent of the ensuing damage of Sunday’s “Spiderweb” operation, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said 40 Russian aircraft — 34% of Russia's strategic cruise missile carriers — were hit. Ukraine's security service, the SBU, put the estimated cost to the Kremlin at $7 billion.
Video released by a Ukrainian Security Service source purportedly shows a drone striking a Russian plane.Source in the Ukrainian Security Service / via AP Some military commentators and pro-Russian bloggers have called it the country's "Pearl Harbor" — a reference to Japanese attack in 1941 that saw the United States enter World War II.
It came Sunday, a day before the latest round of direct peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on Monday.
There was little optimism for diplomatic progress even before the strike, with Ukraine sending its defense minister, Rustem Umerov, but Russia only dispatching the far more junior Putin aide, Vladimir Medinsky, to the Çırağan Palace in Istanbul.
Those talks have now concluded for the day, Zelenskyy said at a news conference in the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius just after midday local time (9 a.m. ET). The president said that the two sides exchanged documents and were preparing a fresh round of prisoner exchanges, extending the only tangible outcome from the two sides' first meeting last month.
“I am waiting to hear minister Umerov’s full report,” Zelenskyy said.
A far more likely outcome of Sunday's strike is Russia continuing to bomb Ukrainian civilians — this time under the pretext of retaliation, “even though in reality these strikes are planned long in advance,” said Keir Giles, a senior consulting fellow with the London-based think-tank Chatham House's Russia and Eurasia program.
Ukrainian serviceman from mobile air defence unit fires a machine gun towards a Russian drone in Kharkiv region Ukrainian air defenses fire at Russian drones Monday in Kharkiv.Sofiia Gatilova / Reuters Less hard to quantify will be the huge blow to Vladimir Putin's pride, with Western analysts in agreement that this was a humiliation for the Russian president.
“At a time when Putin seems to think that he is winning on the battlefield, this demonstrates that his forces are in fact very vulnerable,” said Sven Biscop, a director at the Egmont Institute, a think tank in Brussels. “This may not change the course of the war, but it does mean that every gain Russia makes will be at high cost.”
He added it was “quite amazing” that “a significant part of their bomber force” could “be destroyed like that.”
head of the Security Service Vasyl Malyuk studies a photo of a map of Russia's strategic aviation location The Head of the Ukrainian Security Service, Vasyl Malyuk, studies a map of one of the targets of Sunday's operation.Ukrainian Security Service / via AP The strike took a year and a half to plan, according to Zelenskyy, and played out on the eve of the latest round of peace talks between Ukraine and Russia in Istanbul.
It's still unclear what impact the surgical strike will have on Monday's negotiations, hopes for which were already dim thanks to the deep divisions between the positions of Kyiv and Moscow. Ukraine says it is ready to sign an unconditional 30-day ceasefire; Russia is essentially demanding Ukraine's surrender.
Brokering the talks, President Donald Trump has shifted from the unambiguously pro-Ukrainian stance of his predecessor, President Joe Biden, and offered concessions to the Kremlin that have outraged many in the West.
At the same time, he accused Putin last week of going “absolutely crazy” by continuing to launch regular attacks on Ukraine civilians. Ultimately, he has threatened to walk away from the peace talks if they do not yield the results he once promised he would achieve in just 24 hours.
Aftermath of a Russian attack in Zaporizhzhia The aftermath of a Russian drone strike on the Ukrainian city of Zaporizhzhia on Sunday. Thomas Peter / REUTERS Indeed, overnight into Sunday, Russia launched some 500 attack drones into Ukraine, Zelenskyy said. The night next came 84 more, with at least 10 people killed and dozens more injured across the country, Ukraine's air force said.
Other pro-Russia observers are calling for even more drastic measures.
“We hope that the response will be the same as the U.S. response to the attack on Pearl Harbor, or even tougher,” one Russian military blogger, Roman Alekhin, said on the messaging app Telegram.
Another pro-war Telegram channel, Dva Mayora, added that it was “a reason to launch nuclear strikes on Ukraine" — a threat often made by Putin since launching the invasion three years ago.
“We can expect a great deal of sound and fury from Moscow,” Giles said. Russia “will be working hard on convincing the United States to attempt to rein Ukraine in, in order to prevent any further damage to Russia’s means of bombarding Ukrainian cities with long range missiles,” he added.
“In a way, the more important question is how the United States reacts, and how eager it is to take Moscow‘s side and constrain Ukraine,” he said.
Alexander Smith reported from London and Daryna Mayer reported from Kyiv.
I for one love seeing Vlad get his ass handed to him. If only we had a real American in office, we could have handed him his ass without ever firing a shot. Spending billions there would be so much better than giving it to Donny and Elon’s ilk. The only threat they’ve alleviated is the threat of a prosperous working class.
The Hill reports MAGA podcaster and former Trump White House chief strategist Steve Bannon called for U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), to be “arrested” if he doesn’t stop traveling overseas and encouraging Ukraine to defend itself against the ongoing Russian invasion.
Bannon, who has praised Russian leader Vladimir Putin’s anti-LGBTQ policies and his “anti-woke” agenda in Russia, was also furious at Ukraine’s weekend drone attack on Russia’s bombing fleet. The strategic attack destroyed 40 aircraft deep inside Russian territory. Bannon said the White House should condemn Ukraine’s military response to the invasion and put a collar on Graham’s diplomacy of encouragement.
“The White House has to condemn this immediately and pull all support and tell Lindsey Graham to come home or we are going to put you under arrest when you come home. You’re stirring it up,” Bannon said Monday on his ‘War Room’ podcast.
READ MORE: Outrage grows over a single paragraph buried deep in Republicans' 'Big Beautiful Bill'
He added that Graham’s cheering of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week amounted to undermining President Donald Trump. He also slammed Graham’s legislation sanctioning Russia and other countries that buy Russian products.
“Lindsey Graham’s over there saying, ‘Hey, forget Trump. I got the House and the Senate. We’re going to pass [the legislation]. You’re going to see something in a couple of days,’” Bannon said.
“He’s stirring it up over there,” he repeated.
Bannon’s demand comes just as CNN anchors speculated on Russia requesting a limited ceasefire on Monday in response to the attack. Up until this year, Ukraine had kept most of its drone attacks close to the Ukraine/Russia boundary, or it reserved drone strikes for Russian positions inside Ukraine.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
The Hill reports MAGA podcaster and former Trump White House chief strategist Steve Bannon called for U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), to be “arrested” if he doesn’t stop traveling overseas and encouraging Ukraine to defend itself against the ongoing Russian invasion.
Bannon, who has praised Russian leader Vladimir Putin’s anti-LGBTQ policies and his “anti-woke” agenda in Russia, was also furious at Ukraine’s weekend drone attack on Russia’s bombing fleet. The strategic attack destroyed 40 aircraft deep inside Russian territory. Bannon said the White House should condemn Ukraine’s military response to the invasion and put a collar on Graham’s diplomacy of encouragement.
“The White House has to condemn this immediately and pull all support and tell Lindsey Graham to come home or we are going to put you under arrest when you come home. You’re stirring it up,” Bannon said Monday on his ‘War Room’ podcast.
READ MORE: Outrage grows over a single paragraph buried deep in Republicans' 'Big Beautiful Bill'
He added that Graham’s cheering of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week amounted to undermining President Donald Trump. He also slammed Graham’s legislation sanctioning Russia and other countries that buy Russian products.
“Lindsey Graham’s over there saying, ‘Hey, forget Trump. I got the House and the Senate. We’re going to pass [the legislation]. You’re going to see something in a couple of days,’” Bannon said.
“He’s stirring it up over there,” he repeated.
Bannon’s demand comes just as CNN anchors speculated on Russia requesting a limited ceasefire on Monday in response to the attack. Up until this year, Ukraine had kept most of its drone attacks close to the Ukraine/Russia boundary, or it reserved drone strikes for Russian positions inside Ukraine.
How messed up does everything have to be when Lindsey Graham is the one being the good guy and standing up for common sense?
Yikes.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I'll respond to you only because it's in the dead of night and I like you.
First thing I want to point out is that anyone who trusts Putin is a fool. The man cannot be trusted. Now that doesn't mean Zelemsky and his Ukrainian politicians are virtuist. Ukraine has been one of the most corrupt governments in all of Europe and still is today. I will give them some credit for passing some reforms but the actual implementation of them is lacking to say the least. I really don't see good guys, just varying degrees of bad. Putin being far worse choice.
I think we didn't do enough to discourage Russia from invading Ukraine. Sure the majority of the blame goes to Putin but we didn't even give him pause when troops were being built up. From the start of the war it has been mismanaged. Not allowing Ukraine to have offensive weapons is the kind of micromanaging that has gotten us in trouble in the past. We also should have had strict oversite of cash and weapons we gave them since we knew about their corruption. We set Ukraine up to fail imo. All the talk of Russia going into N̈ATO countries to me also was a disservice. No way Putin goes after any NATO country even if he took out Ukraine in days. It kind of reminds me of the Domino Theory we used for Vietnam.
The arrogance of thinking we could control Putin and force Zelensky to the table by cutting all aid almost leaves me speechless. That is probably the biggest miscalculation of all time. It was plain stupid and cost many innocent Ukrainians their lives.
Where do we go from here? I think the first thing that needs to be done is tell Putin if he doesn’t come to the peace table and have an immediate ceasefire we will begin to rearm Ukraine with the offensive weapons they need to reach deep into Russia. Also tell them that if they were to use any tactical nukes on Ukraine it will be war with us. Now this all can be done quietly so as not to cause Russia to lose face.
The thing is some of the territories that Russia has won in this war are actually highly populated with ethnic Russians. Of the top of my head I Don't remember the exact numbers and am not about to look them up at 3:30 in the morning. Zelensky may have to cede some of these territories. The fact is Ukraine cannot win this war even with a large amount of new weapons. They simply don't have the manpower.
Boy, what the heck are you doing up at 3:31 AM????
I can't disagree with a lot of what you said. I emphatically agree with most of it actually.
Only area for discussion is the corruption. I agree with you that there is rampant corruption. That still exists in a lot of the ex-Soviet blocks, unfortunately. I do like Zelensky. I think he's a big move in the right direction for their Democracy. They have been trending in that direction ever since the Majdan, which is a huge reason for Russia's invasion. Regardless, Russia needlessly invading and committing the atrocities they have is enough to put me firmly on the side of Ukraine.
Corruption in terms of arms delivery and usage has been pretty good. They have used our weaponry quite effectively. I think we should have equipped them heavily up front with no restrictions on usage, because that had enabled the Russians waaaayyyyy too much. Europe made the same stupid blunder which was baffling.
It was dumb for Biden to be so hesitant at the forefront. The current strategy of this admin is even dumber.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
The only thing I can add about the corruption side is that Ukraine has been actively and transparently working to resolve that. I understand if people roll their eyes at that, but at the same time it's a lot more than many countries can say. They had/have major issues with corruption within their govt, but they're also only 12 years removed from the Maiden Revolution. That may not going to do much for people/politicians who have issues with sending them equipment, though.
I think the way we've handled Russian aggression has been consistently weak since Obama. We have consistently failed to hold Russia accountable for crossing "red lines", and that is a main contributor to where we are today. As several have said on here in the past, Russia only respects power and we've been handling them with kid gloves. They are LONG overdue for a real good smack upside the head, and Europe has actually been ready to do so.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
While the three of you didn't reach a complete consensus I would say it was very constructive and had many valid points. I agree that every administration since and including Obama has been weak in regards to standing up to Russia and the current administrations stance is the most baffling of them all.
And to Pdawg..... I have no idea if Putin would further invade other nations if we had walked over Ukraine in a few days. As we see and have learned throughout history as it pertains to power hungry war mongers it's hard to predict their next move. We saw a scenario very close to this in close proximity to this part of the world less than a century ago. For me that makes it too much if a gamble to take the risk. I won't say that I know but I certainly believe that Putin wants to restore the U.S.S.R. to it's former greatness. For him to do so it will take a lot of invasions, wars and deaths.
Some of us are old enough to remember what it was like crawling under our school desks. That's not an era I want to revert to.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I also googled the tires on top of the planes and it is for what you would think; I guess it didn't work that well
Russian forces have been observed placing tires on top of certain aircraft, likely as a deceptive tactic to confuse image-matching weapons used in Ukraine's attacks. By covering the aircraft, the tires disrupt the infrared signature and make it harder for the weapons' targeting systems to identify the target as a plane. This tactic is part of a broader effort to disrupt incoming attacks and potentially provide some level of physical protection against drones.
You brought up an area that I forgot to mention in my post. The logical consensus is something that I've brought up before (I'm not taking credit for coming up with it, I'm just discussing it). Ukraine is a linch pin geographically. If Russia takes over Ukraine, it then has a land bridge to Moldova where there is already a pro-Russian separatist group actively revolting. Russia would also have land access to Slovakia and Hungary, both of whom have very friendly relations with Moscow and could significantly undermine NATO from within, even moreso than they are already doing. That is in addition to undermining EU stances on Russian aggression.
At that point, Russia and its puppet state of Belarus would also occupy substantial border surrounding Poland, causing Poland to spread its forces thin in response to guard the border. With Kaliningrad, Russia would also maintain an effective stranglehold of the Baltic States, while Poland would have more fronts to consider protecting.
It really would be quite a disaster.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I think there are very few from a percentage standpoint that understand the gravity of how strategical Ukraine is given its location. But the implications are huge.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I obviously find Mitch to be a pretty awful human being, and a big reason for our current downward spiral as a country, but he is quite deft at what he does. Petey was left struggling after this one...
There was a lot more said after this too that I wish this Tweet captured. Hegseth eventually conceded that China and its leadership would prefer Russia to win in the Ukrainian conflict.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Trump Says Russia Sanctions Would Cost US ‘a Lot of Money’
(Bloomberg) -- US President Donald Trump indicated at the Group of Seven summit that he is in no rush to impose tougher sanctions on Russia, dismissing pressure from allied leaders eager to do more to push Moscow to the negotiating table.
The US president has repeatedly said he is considering new economic penalties on Russia, but has declined to follow through. Asked why he is still waiting, Trump told reporters that he wants to see “whether or not a deal is signed” and expressed concern over the impact imposing sanctions would have on the US.
“Don’t forget, you know, sanctions cost us a lot of money. When I sanction a country that costs the US a lot of money, a tremendous amount of money,” Trump said at the summit in Alberta, Canada. “It’s not just, let’s sign a document you’re talking about billions and billions of dollars. Sanctions are not that easy. It’s not just a one way street.”
European leaders have pushed Trump on new sanctions, arguing that it is critical to forcing Russian President Vladimir Putin to negotiate in better faith to end his war in Ukraine — now well into its fourth year. Putin has declined calls for a ceasefire and for direct face-to-face negotiations with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, and has offered only maximalist demands for territory.
Trump has shown frustration with both Moscow and Kyiv, saying at a meeting earlier this month with German Chancellor Friedrich Merz that perhaps other nations should “let them fight for a while,” spurring further consternation among allies worried the US president will abandon Kyiv.
Asked about European calls for sanctions, Trump responded: “Europe is saying that, but they haven’t done it yet. Let’s see them do it first.”
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Can't think about that type of stuff too hard or else the narrative quickly unravels.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Figured I’d post this here. I got lambasted by people on here for saying the same thing Ted Cruz directly told Tucker Carlson…and they are on the same “side” or at least were………
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I've occasionally been making comments on here about politicians who have historically been on the wrong side of a common-sense debate suddenly being the voice(s) of reason.
Cruz would represent a bridge too far, IMO. Dude just hasn't been in the headlines recently.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I don’t think I could ever respect Ted Cruz. Watching this video was like watching the two stepsisters from Cinderella get into a slap fight.
In this case, though I think Cruz cited something that was true, albeit with the fact I’m sure he was motivated by getting by a headline going up against someone who’s gone rogue in the MAGA ranks. Cruz saying it also undermines pointing out Carlson’s Russia cheerleading as just a “lib overreaction.”
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
US pauses some munitions shipments to Ukraine, including air defense missiles, senior White House official says
The Trump administration is pausing some weapons shipments to Ukraine, including air defense missiles, following a review of military spending and American support to foreign countries, a senior White House official told CNN.
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth signed off on the review, which the official noted had been underway for months. It was not immediately clear if military support provided to other countries would be affected.
White House Deputy Press Secretary Anna Kelly said the decision was made “to put America’s interests first.”
Russia welcomed the decision, claiming – without providing any evidence – it was made because the US did not have enough weapons.
“As far as we understand the reason for this decision was empty warehouses, lack of these weapons in warehouses. But in any case, the fewer weapons are supplied to Ukraine, the closer the end of the special military operation,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters in a phone call, using the Kremlin moniker for Russia’s unprovoked war on Ukraine.
Some US officials insinuated the review of aid to Ukraine was related in part to the Pentagon’s push to focus on China and be prepared for potential future conflict in the Pacific — an issue prioritized by the Pentagon’s policy chief, Elbridge Colby.
“The Department of Defense continues to provide the President with robust options to continue military aid to Ukraine, consistent with his goal of bringing this tragic war to an end. At the same time, the Department is rigorously examining and adapting its approach to achieving this objective while also preserving US forces’ readiness for Administration defense priorities,” Colby said in a statement on Tuesday.
The decision to halt some weapons transfers to Ukraine comes after the country’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, pleaded with Western allies to bolster its aerial defenses after intensifying Russian airborne attacks.
Russia has in recent weeks launched near-nightly air attacks on Ukraine, involving hundreds of drones and missiles. On Sunday, the Ukrainian military said a pilot was killed after his F-16 fighter jet crashed during a Russian aerial assault.
Following the attack, Zelensky said on social media Ukraine is ready to buy “American systems” to strengthen its air defenses.
Zelensky said Wednesday that the Ukrainian government is trying to clarify the situation.
“All details are being clarified regarding the supply of defense support, including the air defense component. One way or another, we must ensure protection for our people,” Zelensky said during his nightly address to the nation,” the president said during his nightly address to the nation.
Ukraine’s defense ministry said Wednesday that it “has not received any official notifications about the suspension or revision of the delivery schedules for the agreed defence assistance.”
But officials in Kyiv stressed on Wednesday that US weapons played a critical part in the country’s defense.
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha said that Ukraine urgently needs to bolster its air defenses as Russia keeps increasing the size and frequency of its aerial attacks against Ukrainian cities.
He said that in June alone, Russia launched over 330 missiles, including nearly 80 ballistic missiles, 5,000 combat drones, and 5,000 gliding bombs against Ukraine.
“It would seem very strange, it would seem inhumane to stop supplying missiles … especially to Patriot systems, which are clearly protecting the civilian population in Ukraine on a large scale,” Mykhailo Podolyak, Ukraine’s presidential office advisor, said.
The US has been the biggest single donor of military aid to Ukraine since Russia launched its full-scale invasion in 2022, supplying Ukraine with air defense systems, drones, rocket launchers, radars, tanks and anti-armor weapons, leading to concerns over dwindling US stockpiles.
But the balance of aid to Ukraine has changed significantly since Trump returned to power, casting doubt over the future of US support for Kyiv.
In April, Europe surpassed the US in total military aid to Ukraine for the first time, with its contribution equaling 72 billion Euros ($84.9 billion), compared with the US’s 65 billion Euros ($76.6 billion), according to data from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German think tank that closely tracks wartime aid to Ukraine.
The shift came after Trump halted all shipments of military aid to Ukraine following a heated Oval Office argument with Zelensky in March. Trump resumed aid flows to Ukraine about a week later.
Last week, during the NATO summit in The Hague, US President Donald Trump suggested Kyiv may see future Patriot missile system deliveries from the US – signaling a possible shift in his thinking about US aid flows to Kyiv.
The Patriots are widely considered among the best air defense systems, particularly in protecting against advanced hypersonic and ballistic missiles.
Ukraine is known to have roughly half a dozen of the US-made Patriot air defense systems, which play a crucial role in its air defense, protecting millions of civilians from Russian missiles.
But Kyiv is at risk of running out of missiles for these systems.
That is too inconvinient. Easier to excuse and deflect. Same with the genocide in Gaza. . . nothing about that is humane or reasonable. It's almost funny to see so many alledgedly care about abortion and protecting human life - and yet the mass slaughter of innocent Palestinian women and children goes by without comment or care. MURICA !!!
Last edited by mgh888; 07/04/2503:32 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
So are some Muslims, agnostics, and athiests, Yet you don't hear any of them or you (not sure which you are) bashing each other or themselves. So why do you comment about Christians, and "that goes by without comment of care."
trump has a phone call with putin. It doesnt go well so he rewards putin by cutting off shipments to Ukraine. What is wrong with this guy? Whatever his reasons are you can be assured it has nothing to do with USA and has everything to do with trump making money.
That is too inconvinient. Easier to excuse and deflect. Same with the genocide in Gaza. . . nothing about that is humane or reasonable. It's almost funny to see so many alledgedly care about abortion and protecting human life - and yet the mass slaughter of innocent Palestinian women and children goes by without comment or care. MURICA !!!
They are pro birth and not pro life. trump just cut almost a trillion dollars from medicaid and over a quarter of a trillion dollars in food assistance. Listen not to what they say but rather watch what they do and what they support.
While Israel slaughters the children of Gaza and Russia slaughters the children of Ukraine, where is their outrage if they're pro life?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
China tells EU it can’t accept Russia losing its war against Ukraine, official says
Chinese Foreign Minister [censored] Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat that Beijing can’t accept Russia losing its war against Ukraine as this could allow the United States to turn its full attention to China, an official briefed on the talks said, contradicting Beijing’s public position of neutrality in the conflict.
The admission came during what the official said was a four-hour meeting with EU foreign affairs chief Kaja Kallas on Wednesday in Brussels that “featured tough but respectful exchanges, covering a broad range of issues from cyber security, rare earths to trade imbalances, Taiwan and Middle East.”
The official said [censored]’s private remarks suggested Beijing might prefer a protracted war in Ukraine that keeps the United States from focusing on its rivalry with China. They echo concerns of critics of China’s policy that Beijing has geopolitically much more at stake in the Ukrainian conflict than its admitted position of neutrality.
On Friday, at a regular Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs briefing, spokeswoman Mao Ning was asked about the exchange, which was first reported in the South China Morning Post, and re-affirmed Beijing’s long-standing position on the three-year war.
“China is not a party to the Ukraine issue,” Mao said. “China’s position on the Ukraine crisis is objective and consistent, that is, negotiation, ceasefire and peace. A prolonged Ukraine crisis serves no one’s interests.”
She added that China wanted a political settlement as quickly as possible: “Together with the international community and in light of the will of the parties concerned, we will continue playing a constructive role towards this end.”
China’s public statements on the Ukraine war mask a more complex picture.
Just weeks before Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Chinese leader Xi Jinping declared a “no limits” partnership with Moscow and since then political and economic ties have strengthened.
China has put itself forward as a possible peacemaker, but as CNN has previously reported the stakes are high for Beijing, not least potentially losing a major partner in Russia.
China has also rejected growing accusations it is providing near-military support to Russia. Ukraine has sanctioned several Chinese companies for providing Russia drone components and technology for use in missile production.
After a record assault on the Ukrainian capital Kyiv on Friday, Ukraine’s Foreign Minister, Andrii Sybiha, posted pictures he said were the fragments of a Geran 2 combat drone launched by Russia. One image displayed part of the drone’s alleged fuselage which said the device was made in China on June 20.
Sybiha added that night the “Chinese Consulate General’s building in Odesa suffered minor damage as a result of Russian strikes on the city. There is no better metaphor for how Putin continues to escalate his war and terror while involving others, including North Korean troops, Iranian weapons, and some Chinese manufacturers. Security in Europe, the Middle East, and the Indo-Pacific is inextricably linked.”
This year also saw allegations that Chinese nationals have been fighting with Russia in Ukraine. Beijing denied any involvement and repeated previous calls for Chinese citizens to “refrain from participating in military actions of any party.”
I'm not sure if it's okay to post our president saying BS or not. But if not it seems odd that he can spew it on national TV but we can't post it here. Ever since he decided to say the F bomb to the national press core where are the lines now?.........
So does this mean he has finally figured out that a former high ranking KGB agent hasn't been telling the truth? Something most all of us, including many Republicans have known all along? Does this mean he now finally understands that Putin isn't the good guy?
His response to who stopped weapons from being shipped to Ukraine last week was, "Why don't you tell me?"
Three hundred billion dollars?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Trump-Putin summit in Alaska resembles a slow defeat for Ukraine
Location matters, former real estate mogul US President Donald Trump said. Moments later he announced Alaska, a place sold by Russia to the United States 158 years ago for $7.2 million, would be where Russian President Vladimir Putin tries to sell his land deal of the century, getting Kyiv to hand over chunks of land he’s not yet been able to occupy.
The conditions around Friday’s summit so wildly favor Moscow, it is obvious why Putin leapt at the chance, after months of fake negotiation, and it is hard to see how a deal emerges from the bilateral that does not eviscerate Ukraine. Kyiv and its European allies have reacted with understandable horror at the early ideas of Trump’s envoy, Steve Witkoff, that Ukraine cede the remainders of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in exchange for a ceasefire.
Naturally, the Kremlin head has promoted the idea of taking ground without a fight, and found a willing recipient in the form of Witkoff, who has in the past exhibited a relaxed grasp of Ukrainian sovereignty and the complexity of asking a country, in the fourth year of its invasion, to simply walk out of towns it’s lost thousands of men defending.
It is worth pausing and reflecting on what Witkoff’s proposal would look like. Russia is close to encircling two key Donetsk towns, Pokrovsk and Kostiantynivka, and may effectively put Ukrainian troops defending these two hubs under siege in the coming weeks. Ceding these two towns might be something Kyiv does anyway to conserve manpower in the months ahead.
The rest of Donetsk – principally the towns of Kramatorsk and Sloviansk – is a much nastier prospect. Thousands of civilians live there now, and Moscow would delight at scenes where the towns evacuate, and Russian troops walk in without a shot fired.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s rejection of ceding land early Saturday reflects the real dilemma of a commander in chief trying to manage the anger of his military and the deep-seated distrust of the Ukrainian people towards their neighbor, who continues to bombard their cities nightly.
What could Ukraine get back in the “swapping” Trump referred to? Perhaps the tiny slivers of border areas occupied by Russia in Sumy and Kharkiv regions – part of Putin’s purported “buffer zone” – but not much else, realistically.
The main goal is a ceasefire, and that itself is a stretch. Putin has long held that the immediate ceasefire demanded by the United States, Europe and Ukraine for months, is impossible as technical work about monitoring and logistics must take place first. He is unlikely to have changed his mind now his troops are in the ascendancy across the eastern frontline.
Europe is also wary of mirroring the failure of former UK Foreign Secretary Neville Chamberlain to stand up to Nazi Germany in 1938 – of the worthlessness of a “piece of paper” signed by a Kremlin that has repeatedly agreed to deals in Ukraine and then simply used the pause to regroup before invading again.
To his credit, Putin has made it clear what he wants from the start: all of Ukraine subjugated or occupied and a strategic reset with the US that involves it dropping Kyiv like a stone. His aide, Yury Ushakov, spoke of Alaska being a great place to talk economic cooperation between Washington and Moscow, and suggested a return summit in Russia had already been proposed.
There is a risk we see bonhomie between Trump and Putin that allows the US president to tolerate more technical meetings between their staffers on the what and when of any ceasefire deal. A plan about land swaps or grabs that is wholly in Moscow’s favor, might then be presented to Kyiv, with the old US ultimatums about aid and intelligence sharing being contingent on their accepting the deal that we have seen before. Cue French President Emmanuel Macron on the phone to Trump again, and around we go. Putin needs more time to continue to conquer and he is about to get it.
What has changed since the last time Trump found his thinking dragged somehow back towards Russia’s orbit, around the time of the Oval Office blowout with Zelensky? Two elements are there now that were absent then.
Firstly, we cannot ignore that India and China – the former risking 25% tariffs in two weeks and the latter still waiting to learn what damage it’ll suffer – were on the phone to the Kremlin in the past days. They might have provided some impetus for Putin to meet Trump, or at least provide more lip service to diplomacy again, and may be concerned at their energy imports being compromised by Trump’s secondary sanctions.
But Putin cannot have needed much persuading to agree to a formal invitation to the US to have the bilateral meeting his team have long held out as the way towards peace in Ukraine. And another sanctions deadline of Friday has just whizzed past, almost unnoticed in the kerfuffle about Alaska and land deals.
Secondly, Trump claims his thinking around Putin has evolved. “Disappointed,” “disgusting,” “tapping me along” are all newcomers to his lexicon about the Kremlin head. While Trump appears effortlessly able to stop himself causing genuine pain to Moscow, allowing threats and deadlines to fall lifeless around him, he is surrounded by allies and Republicans who will remind him of how far down these roads he has gone before.
Much could go right. But the stage is set for something more sinister. Consider Putin’s mindset for a moment. The third Trump threat of sanctions has evaporated, and his forces are moving into a period of strategic gain on the frontlines. He’s got his first invitation to the US in a decade to talk peace about Ukraine without Ukraine, discussing a deal where he doesn’t even have to fight to get some of the rest of the land he wants. And this is before the former KGB spy gets to work his apparent magic on Trump.
Friday is six days away, but even at this distance resembles slow defeat for Kyiv.
Russia and the United States have discussed Israel’s occupation of the West Bank as a model for ending the war in Ukraine, The Times has been told.
Under this scenario Russia would have military and economic control of occupied Ukraine under its own governing body, imitating Israel’s de facto rule of Palestinian territory seized from Jordan in 1967.
The idea was raised weeks ago in discussions between Steve Witkoff, President Trump’s peace envoy, and his Russian counterparts, according to a source close to the US national security council.
Witkoff, who is also tasked by Trump with bringing peace to the Middle East, is understood to support the idea, which the Americans believe circumvents barriers in the Ukrainian constitution to ceding territory without holding an “all-Ukraine” referendum.
President Zelensky has refused to countenance handing over land but the occupation model may be a mechanism to allow for a truce after three and a half years of war.
I didn't read the article, so feel free to flame if I'm off-base (when I have time later today I'll read the article and modify my argument as necessary).
Anyone who sees the West Bank as a model to copy should be kept as far away from any decision-making as possible.
Seriously... name one thing in that whole dumpster fire that we'd want to do again.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
In what world would an American president ever think he has the ability or the right to negotiate a peace deal for a nation who is not even allowed in that negotiation or a seat at the table?
It would certainly not surprise me if trump met with Putin, announced he made a great deal with Putin while giving Russia massive concessions and then blamed Zelenskyy because he simply can not accept a deal like that. In the end it seems logical Putin will once again manipulate trump into blaming Ukraine for everything.
If Putin could manipulate trump into believing his word over our own national security this should be a piece of cake for Putin.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Trump still claims Ukraine started the war after it was Russia that invaded them. And of course he has no idea of the concept that anything has to be approved by congress because he circumvents that with a stroke of his pen.
Why am I not surprised he is slamming Zelenskyy for following his nation's constitution? Who appointed trump the right to speak to Putin for Ukraine again? Oh that's right, he did.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Why am I not surprised he is slamming Zelenskyy for following his nation's constitution?
Because he has always believed that "following rules" are for suckers and losers- and he was trained to look down on suckers and losers.
His pathology has been on display for more than 40 years, due to his incessant, obsessive need to be in the headlines. It's indelibly baked into his psyche.
His own behavior in the office of POTUS tells us exactly who he is. He relies on the Emergency Powers Act to press forth his agenda, circumventing the standard steps proscribed by the Constitution. He hates anyone who has the ear of their constituents, derived by less than shady means.
Honest love/support for good deeds done well in good faith are like garlic to a vampire with this dude... because they represent the opposite of what he is/has always been.
I remember the last time POTUS negotiated a deal without having the head of the country (where the war is being fought) involved directly.
It did not go well.
That's factually incorrect. It went extremely well for Trump. Better than he ever could have hoped for.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
If Trump was half as tough as he claims to be he would bitch slap Putin to an inch of his death and hang him for mass murder on the global stage. He’d be a world hero.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
I'm curious to see your reaction after you've been shot.I'd be willing to bet you would not jump up and yell fight,fight,fight.You internet tough guys truely are impressive.
I haven’t commented too substantively on the topic…somewhat because I’m waiting to see what happens to the talks and also because POTUS has been waffling so damn much since his term started as to who’s at fault and/or what he’ll do.
That being said, this was the right move to kick the talks off. I just hope he doesn’t F up on the actual substance. Zelenskyy should also be involved.
Last edited by dawglover05; 08/15/2504:08 PM.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
I'm curious to see your reaction after you've been shot.I'd be willing to bet you would not jump up and yell fight,fight,fight.You internet tough guys truely are impressive.
So your excuse is he thinks Putin will try to assassinate him?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Putin, largely isolated by the EU and much of the world, was just handed a global stage—complete with a red-carpet welcome and even kneeling from U.S. military personnel as they laid the red carpet 🤮🤮. Trump’s bluster before the meeting led to… absolutely nothing. No ceasefire, no peace, no accountability.
European leaders and analysts weren’t subtle in their criticism:
Wolfgang Ischinger, Germany’s former ambassador to the U.S., called it a win for Putin: *"Trump got nothing. No real progress—just a 1-0 for Russia. No sanctions, no gains for Ukraine, and deep disappointment for Europe."*
Sergey Radchenko, Cold War historian, noted: "Putin walked away with something for nothing. At least Trump didn’t fully sell out Ukraine."
Oleksandr Merezhko, head of Ukraine’s parliamentary foreign affairs committee, accused Trump of adopting Putin’s stance by sidelining any push for a truce.
But here’s what’s telling: Look at who was in the room—and who wasn’t. Ukraine was excluded, while key financial and economic figures took center stage. On the U.S. side, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross were present; Russia brought along Anton Siluanov (Finance Minister) and Maxim Oreshkin (Economic Development Minister).
Hard to ignore the subtext: This wasn’t about defending an ally. It was about backroom deals, money, and mutual gain—while Ukraine pays the price. Trump has continued to echo the Putin lie that Ukraine started the war - he talked about how great a power Russia is and their great soldiers while telling Ukraine they needed to accept any deal as they aren't a great power. 🤮
Last edited by mgh888; 08/16/2508:51 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
In your zeal to control all topics you do miss most of the substance of what people say.
You made a statement that many of our veterans defy every day. Many of them have served several tours of duty that involved going into battle on multiple deployments. They return from battle and join police forces across the country. The president is the head of the military.
Quote
I'm curious to see your reaction after you've been shot.I'd be willing to bet you would not jump up and yell fight,fight,fight.
And many of them had more than a nicked ear. Many of them also witnessed their fellow soldiers be shot and die. Stop making excuses for the things you post.
I didn't miss a damned thing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
WASHINGTON/MOSCOW/KYIV (Reuters) -U.S. President Donald Trump said on Saturday that Ukraine should make a deal to end the war with Russia because "Russia is a very big power, and they're not", after a summit where Vladimir Putin was reported to have demanded more Ukrainian land.
Government papers found in an Alaskan hotel reveal new details of Trump-Putin summit Updated August 16, 20251:56 PM ET Headshot of Chiara Eisner Chiara Eisner
President Trump (right) and Russia's President Vladimir Putin arrive for a joint press conference at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, on Friday. President Donald Trump, right, Russia's President Vladimir Putin arrive for a joint press conference at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, Friday, Aug. 15, 2025. (AP Photo/Jae C. Hong)
Jae C. Hong/AP Papers with U.S. State Department markings, found Friday morning in the business center of an Alaskan hotel, revealed previously undisclosed and potentially sensitive details about the Aug. 15 meetings between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir V. Putin in Anchorage.
Eight pages, that appear to have been produced by U.S. staff and left behind accidentally, shared precise locations and meeting times of the summit and phone numbers of U.S. government employees.
At around 9 a.m. on Friday, three guests at Hotel Captain Cook, a four-star hotel located 20 minutes from the Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Anchorage where leaders from the U.S. and Russia convened, found the documents left behind in one of the hotel's public printers. NPR reviewed photos of the documents taken by one of the guests, who NPR agreed not to identify because the guest said they feared retaliation.
Pictures of two documents about the Trump-Putin meeting in Alaska that were found in a public hotel printer in Anchorage. Pictures of two documents about the Trump-Putin meeting in Alaska that were found in a public hotel printer in Anchorage.
NPR The first page in the printed packet disclosed the sequence of meetings for August 15, including the specific names of the rooms inside the base in Anchorage where they would take place. It also revealed that Trump intended to give Putin a ceremonial present.
Sponsor Message
"POTUS to President Putin," the document states, "American Bald Eagle Desk Statue."
On Saturday, White House Deputy Press Secretary Anna Kelly dismissed the papers as a "multi-page lunch menu" and suggested leaving the information on a public printer was not a security breach. The U.S. Department of State did not respond to requests for comment.
Pages 2 through 5 of the documents listed the names and phone numbers of three U.S. staff members as well as the names of 13 U.S. and Russian state leaders. The list provided phonetic pronouncers for all the Russian men expected at the summit, including "Mr. President POO-tihn."
Pages 6 and 7 in the packet described how lunch at the summit would be served, and for whom. A menu included in the documents indicated that the luncheon was to be held "in honor of his excellency Vladimir Putin."
A seating chart shows that Putin and Trump were supposed to sit across from each other during the luncheon. Trump would be flanked by six officials: Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles to his right, and Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessent, Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick and Special Envoy for Peace Missions Steve Witkoff to his left. Putin would be seated immediately next to his Minister of Foreign Affairs, Sergey Lavrov, and his Aide to the President for Foreign Policy, Yuri Ushakov.
Sponsor Message
During the summit Friday, lunch was apparently cancelled. But it was intended to be a simple, three-course meal, the documents showed. After a green salad, the world leaders would dine on filet mignon and halibut olympia. Crème brûlée would be served for dessert.
Ukraine invasion — explained Ukraine invasion — explained Jon Michaels, a professor of law at UCLA who lectures about national security, said that the documents found in the printer of the Alaskan hotel reveal a lapse in professional judgement in preparation for a high-stakes meeting.
"It strikes me as further evidence of the sloppiness and the incompetence of the administration," said Michaels. "You just don't leave things in printers. It's that simple."
The printed papers are the latest example of a series of security breaches by officials of the Trump administration. Earlier this week, members of a law enforcement group chat that included members of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) added a random person to a conversation about an ongoing search for a convicted attempted murderer. In March, U.S. national security leaders accidentally included a journalist in a group chat about impending military strikes in Yemen.
In POTUS 45, there were professionals around to protect against things like this. From Generals appointed to cabinet posts, to career employees who worked for every admin, sometimes for 30+ years. They did their jobs.
In POTUS 47, we now see what it looks like when he surrounds himself with 'yesfolk.'
As he gets older and more mentally infirm, expect a growing cascade of stories like this. It's not just him; it's also the level of incompetency of those who have been brought into his orbit. FOX News personalities should be hosting FOX news shows- not running top-level posts in America's government.
Total disclosure: I've been politically awake since my high school years. I've lived under Dem and Rep admins all my life. Nixon. Carter. Reagan. Bush 1. Clinton. Bush 2. Obama.
... and never before, have I had so much to say about politics as I do these days. But then again, we've never seen a presidency that ever looked like this. Sheer insanity- being normalized with each passing day.
In term #1, he purged the adults from the room. In term #2, he's surrounded himself with enablers/sycophants/amateurs. With an invertebrate congress/cabinet too limp to Article 25 his ass- when his mental state is on full display for all the world to see- what should we expect for the next 3.5 years?
Hire a clown; expect a circus. Circus address: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Who knows what thrills, chills and spills are in store for our country?
Clem has a chronic case of "TDS:" Trump Disclosure Service. I'm OK with that diagnosis. Raise my hand first in the crowd, when called.
_______________
People: it's only going to get worse... because there is no way he's ever going to get better. Not at his age. Not at this rate of decline.
And... for anyone who feels the need to knee-jerk a "But Biden" response to me- save your wasted CO². Biden was one-and-done. Dems ended him before he even had a chance at a 2.0. There is currently no one in the GOP who would ever help an initiative like this, no matter how much his cognitive processes deteriorate. This d00d's at the very start of his twofer, and he's like:
He's the eye of a perfect storm for America's loss of premiere standing on the world stage. It will take at least a generation of new politics to undo what has happened in just 7 short months.
I never imagined something like this in my entire life- until 2016. Now, it's a daily reality that I can't un-imagine.
People: it's only going to get worse... because there is no way he's ever going to get better. Not at his age. Not at this rate of decline.
Ouch—this really hit home for me, and I think you’re right. That’s what makes it such a scary realization to accept.
Like many, I was never a Trump fan, But while his first term was a circus it didn't appear to do any long term, permanent systematic damage to the nation. But to me the most telling takeaway for me wasn’t the chaos and buffoonery — it was the people inside his administration, the "adults in the room," who later came out and said, "This man is unfit for office." .... None of them more significant than the toady that is Bill Barr: a far-right loyalist who got his job by pledging fealty to Trump. He was such a sycophant he lied relentlessly to shield Trump from the Mueller report, spinning narratives to protect. And yet, he now says Trump should never hold power again. If someone that deeply embedded in Trump’s machinery, who was undoubtedly far 'right' - and warns he’s dangerous, how does anyone still ignore it?
Biden/Harris may not have been everyone’s ideal choice, something of a poison pill, but nothing compares to the disaster unfolding in Trump Term 2 (TT2). What we’re seeing now is truly disasterous. To use the MAGA playbook - what we are seeing is deeply unamerican :
ICE running rogue, detaining citizens without cause, fast-tracking deportations to El Salvador with no due process. Due process is too inconvinient so forget about it!
Economic chaos from knee-jerk tariffs, tha can do nothing but fuel inflation globally while creting a self inflicted wound. It will eventually slow down the economy - unless we continue this radnom pattern of relaxing tariffs or pausing them etc.
Coddling dictators—rolling out the red carpet for Putin, lying about Ukraine’s war origins, and publicly humiliating Zelensky.
Ruling by "101" executive orders, bypassing checks and balances by declaring fake "emergencies" to rule by decree. King Trump.
The DOGE disaster, a policy fiasco that will trigger global suffering—whether through AIDS funding cuts or starvation crises. Mass firings - then shortly later mass re-hires because they got it wrong, again and again.
MAGA had a conspiracy theory about the Deep State and then the alleged weaponizing of the justice department - but here we are in real time with Trump relentlessly using his administration to go after, punish or humilate individuals who opposed him.
And let’s not ignore the Epstein stench — a huge hot button issue that Trump all of a sudden wanted to be a non-story. Interview with Ghislaine Maxwell followed by an unexplained and suspicious transfer to low-security prison... why does a monster deserve special treatment?
It’s a breakdown of democracy, and it’s happening in real time.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
President Donald Trump has sought to present his recent summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin as a constructive encounter, but several inside accounts and media analyses suggest otherwise.
Analysts highlighted how Putin managed to shift U.S. policy rhetoric toward a broader “peace agreement," a move that aligned with Kremlin narratives — without offering any tangible concessions, giving him symbolic and diplomatic gains at U.S. expense.
On The Daily Beast Podcast Saturday, Trump biographer Michael Wolff said a close aide texted him simply: “F--- --.”
Wolff concluded that Trump emerged from the meeting in Alaska clearly disadvantaged, a sentiment seemingly shared by those inside his circle. “Trump got f--- --,” he said.
“We got nothing out of this," Wolff said. "This is, you know, this is really, really a loss for Trump, and potentially a loss for Ukraine.”
The summit began with direct and symbolic gestures. U.S. airmen rolled out a red carpet and fighter jets and a B‑2 bomber performed a flyover as Putin arrived at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Anchorage. Trump and Putin shook hands and exchanged smiles before the U.S. president invited the Russian leader into the presidential limousine, “The Beast,” where they waved to onlookers.
Following the conclusion of their Anchorage summit, both leaders made succinct joint remarks at the base. Trump called the outcome “very productive” but said that key issues remained unresolved and that no formal agreement had been reached.
In later interviews, he shifted focus onto Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and European leaders, urging them to broker a peace deal.
When asked what Trump received in return for such optics, Wolff said, “Practically nothing."
He added: “It was a failure.”
The Trump biographer recalled his pre-summit threats. “If we don’t get a deal, I’m going to walk away. I’m going to do tariffs. I’m going to do, you know, all of this.” — none of which were carried out.
Instead, Trump “basically embraced Vladimir Putin," according to Wolff.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
As I said before the meeting, the last time these two met Putin convinced trump to believe him over our own intelligence community. How could anyone believe this time would turn out any different? It's what to be expected when you match a buffoon against a former KGB agent and spy.........................
'No going into Nato by Ukraine,' says Trump as Zelensky prepares for White House talks
Donald Trump has said the Ukrainian president can end Russia's war "if he wants to", but there will be "no going into Nato by Ukraine" as part of a peace deal.
Hours before he was due to host Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House, Trump also said there would be "no getting back" the Crimean peninsula, which Moscow illegally annexed in 2014, eight years before launching its full-scale invasion.
Trump's remarks follow his summit with Russian leader Vladimir Putin in Alaska that resulted in the US president dropping a demand for a ceasefire and calling instead for a permanent peace deal.
After arriving in the US late on Sunday, Zelensky repeated his call for allies' effective security guarantees.
A US envoy said on Sunday that Putin had agreed to a possible Nato-like security pact for Ukraine.
The Russian president has consistently opposed the idea of Ukraine joining the military alliance.
Deadly Russian attacks on Ukrainian towns and cities continued hours before the summit in Washington - killing at least 10 people, including children.
In the north-eastern city of Kharkiv, at least seven people were killed after a Russian drone hit an apartment block, Mayor Ihor Terekhov said. At least three were killed in Zaporizhzhia, officials said.
Zelensky described the attacks as a "demonstrative and cynical Russian strike" in a post on X.
"Putin will commit demonstrative killings to maintain pressure on Ukraine and Europe, as well as to humiliate diplomatic efforts. That is precisely why we are seeking assistance to put an end to the killings," he said.
Earlier, Trump posted on his Truth Social platform, saying: "President Zelensky of Ukraine can end the war with Russia almost immediately, if he wants to, or he can continue to fight.
"Remember how it started. No getting back Obama given Crimea (12 years ago, without a shot being fired!), and NO GOING INTO NATO BY UKRAINE. Some things never change!!!" Trump added.
The president's assertion is untrue: At least two Ukrainian soldiers are known to have been shot dead by Russian forces in Crimea in 2014.
The Ukrainian naval vessel Cherkasy, a minesweeper, was also attacked by Russian forces when trying to leave the area.
Before Trump's return to power in January, Nato countries agreed on Kyiv's "irreversible path" to membership in the alliance.
Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte, alongside European leaders including UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, will join Zelensky in Washington for talks on Ukraine's future on Monday.
Also attending are French President Emmanuel Macron, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, Finnish President Alexander Stubb and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. It is unclear how many of them will go to the White House.
Trump later added: "Big day at the White House tomorrow. Never had so many European Leaders at one time. My great honor to host them!!!"
Zelensky posted on social media saying he was "grateful" for Trump's invitation. "We all share a strong desire to end this war quickly and reliably".
He also doubled down on the need for effective security guarantees from allies, "not like it was years ago... when Ukraine was given so called 'security guarantees' in 1994 but they didn't work".
"Of course, Crimea should not have been given up then," he added. "Just as Ukrainians did not give up Kyiv, Odesa, or Kharkiv after 2022".
For so many heads of state to travel with such little notice across the Atlantic to what is essentially a wartime crisis meeting appears without precedent in the modern era, underscoring the sky-high stakes.
Diplomatic sources say European officials are concerned that Trump may try to press Zelensky to agree to terms, after the Ukrainian leader was excluded from the Trump-Putin meeting on US soil last Friday.
But US Secretary of State Marco Rubio told the BBC's US partner CBS that any suggestion Zelensky might be bullied by Trump into accepting a peace deal was a "stupid media narrative".
Nato leaders also appear eager to avoid a repeat of Zelensky's February trip to the Oval Office that ended abruptly after an argument with Trump and US Vice-President JD Vance.
The altercation - which saw Trump accuse Zelensky of "gambling with World War Three" - left Washington-Kyiv ties in tatters.
But European leaders have been working diligently behind the scenes since then to mend the relationship. The Ukrainian leader has been coached to talk in terms of deal-making - language that resonates with Trump.
In April, Ukraine signed a minerals agreement that gave the US a financial stake in the country, and Trump and Zelensky spoke privately at the Vatican before Pope Francis's funeral. Ukraine made clear it was willing to pay for US weapons.
By July, the two leaders had a phone call that the Ukrainian president described as "the best conversation we have had".
Meanwhile, Trump had begun to express exasperation with Russia's unrelenting onslaught in Ukraine. He called Putin "absolutely crazy", drastically shortened his deadline for a peace deal, and threatened economic sanctions on Moscow.
As these deliberations grind on, Russian forces continue to advance on the battlefield. They now occupy almost a fifth of Ukraine since Moscow launched its full scale invasion in February 2022.
A virtual summit was held on Sunday between Zelensky and the so-called coalition of the willing - a group of nations including the UK, France and Germany that have pledged to protect peace in Ukraine once it is achieved.
Afterwards, Emmanuel Macron told reporters their plan was to "present a united front" for Monday's talks with Trump.
Zelensky and the Nato leaders said they were keen to learn more after US envoy Steve Witkoff told US television that Putin had agreed on Friday to "robust security guarantees that I would describe as game-changing".
Witkoff said such an agreement could see Europe and the US protect Ukraine from further aggression with a Nato-like defence agreement.
"We were able to win the following concession: that the United States could offer Article 5-like protection, which is one of the real reasons why Ukraine wants to be in Nato," Witkoff told CNN on Sunday.
Putin has long opposed Ukraine joining Nato, and Witkoff said the arrangement could be an alternative if the Ukrainians "can live with it".
Article 5 is a principle at the heart of the 32-member transatlantic military alliance that says its members will come to the defence of an ally that is under attack.
Witkoff also told CNN that Russia made "some concessions" around five heavily contested regions of Ukraine.
In talks with European allies after the Alaska summit, Trump said Putin had reiterated that he wants the key Donetsk and Luhansk regions that make up Donbas, eastern Ukraine, according to European officials.
But at Sunday's virtual summit with Nato leaders, Zelensky stressed that the Ukrainian constitution makes it impossible to give up territory - and that this should only be discussed by the leaders of Ukraine and Russia at a trilateral summit with the US.
The US secretary of state, meanwhile, sought to temper hopes that a deal to end Europe's deadliest conflict for 80 years could be imminent.
"We're still a long ways off," Rubio said on Sunday.
Trump has given many concessions that Putin wants to him before peace talks with Ukraine have even begun. That's not how negotiations are supposed to work. Art of the Deal my azz.
Trump says Zelensky can stop the war if he wants to? Sure, by giving Putin everything he wants. It appears he can't ""Remember how it started."
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Meeting today at the White House and what appears to be damn near all of Europe. The topic appears to be Ukraine war.
FWIW, I don't think Friday's summit was a loss at all. I think it's TBD. Nothing was gained and nothing was lost. Now we have a hastily-assembled meeting between Trump and Zelensky, and VZ is bringing Europe with him.
I'll say one thing, I'm glad Europe appears to be finally growing a pair. I do think Trump playing hardball with them had a lot to do with this.
Last edited by oobernoober; 08/18/2510:07 AM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
From fairly close hand experience of being in EU for a while now - I can tell you that my opinion (and that of many) is that Europe getting tougher and grwing a pair has more to do with Trump parroting Putin propaganda than Trump playing hardball with anyone. If you want to give Trump credit for something to do with Europe it would be to highlight and drag into the light the NATO members under commiting to their previous spending agreements. That deserves Kudos ... Ukraine? Trump gets an F from me on multiple counts.
Edit - to add, regards EU and their visit to Trump. It's interesting, EU wants to be tough with Russia. Remember UK and France committing to put troops into Ukraine which Vance/Trump then poo-poo'd? Basically EU wants to get tough with Putin but is also trying to pander to the spoiled brat and oversized ego that is Donald Trump. Trump wants the limelight, credit and a nobel peace prize more than he wants peace or to see EU make a difference and end the war without him. EU and it's leaders know this and it is a difficult balancing act.
** Second edit - I heard on the radio today that the amount of land Russia has "gained" is about 20% of all Ukraine. To put that into perspective for people saying "End the war give them the land" .... this would be like someone (China) taking Texas, California, Montana, and Arizona and then we just say 'okay - keep it all as long as you stop the war'.
Also on the same radio segment - Russia has relentlessly targeted and decimated areas that were previously pro-Russia. That sentiment has been obliterated since estimates that 93% of the various cities have been leveled together with enormous civilian casualties. Also worth noting - Last free and clear election in Ukraine had Zelensky (a Jew) with nearly 74%of the vote. He's not perfect but he's got a bigger majority than any other western leader. I'd guess that support has only grown.
Last edited by mgh888; 08/18/2511:08 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm just saying that this is one of the few times Trump has explicitly said what he wants to see (Europe take a more active role in European security), that goal being something most people can agree on, and early appearances indicating it could happen. I believe it was the NATO Secretary General (?? I think he's Dutch) that recently said that European leadership basically needs to put their bigboy pants on and quit waiting for the USA in order to do anything.
Now you have Zelensky being called to Washington and European leaders coming with him. Maybe I'm off-base, but it feels like NATO is taking some initiative and backing up Ukraine against what has been perceived as a Pro-Putin US admin. I think that's a positive.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Them standing behind Ukraine is certainly positive. The fact that they fully understand that trump favors major concessions be given to Putin and feel the need to go to D.C. to back up Ukraine not so much. So I suppose one could look at it, if they try real hard to see the glass as half full.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I like that the topic of landing land (conquered or not) over to Russia wasn't discussed. I think the fact that didn't even make it to the discussion is a big deal.
I don't like that the group is tip-toe'ing around Ukrainian membership in NATO despite apparently being in favor of all of the security guarantees that would go along with it. I think it opens the door to reneging on the overall commitment.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Russia launches huge attack on Ukraine following Trump-Zelensky meeting
Russia launched a major attack overnight on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure following Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s meeting with President Trump and European leaders on Monday at the White House.
Several dozen drones targeted the nation’s gas transmission system, causing widespread fires, according to the Ministry of Energy.
“The enemy continues systematic terrorist attacks against Ukraine’s energy infrastructure, which is a direct violation of international humanitarian law. Since March 2025, more than 2900 attacks have been carried out on energy infrastructure,” the Ministry wrote in a statement after the strike.
“The Ministry of Energy calls on the international community to increase sanctions pressure on the aggressor state and provide Ukraine with additional support to protect critical infrastructure facilities.”
Ukrainian officials said 230 of 270 drones launched by Russia and six of the 10 missiles fired were shot down.
“Thank you to air defenders for protecting the skies! russian terror must be stopped,” the Ministry of Defense wrote in an early morning post on X.
The strike came hours after Zelensky said security guarantees for Ukraine could be outlined within the next 10 days.
Zelensky following his White House meeting urged world leaders to aid him in ending more than three years of bloodshed.
“I thank all our partners for their determination and support. Ukraine feels this strength. And we will do everything to make the path to peace a reality – through partnership, through security guarantees, and through the courage of the Ukrainian people,” the Ukrainian leader wrote in a post on X.
Zelensky earlier Monday criticized Putin over Russian attacks on Ukraine ahead of the White House meeting.
“The Russian war machine continues to destroy lives despite everything. Putin will commit demonstrative killings to maintain pressure on Ukraine and Europe, as well as to humiliate diplomatic efforts. That is precisely why we are seeking assistance to put an end to the killings,” Zelensky wrote in a Monday post on X.
“That is why reliable security guarantees are required. That is why Russia should not be rewarded for its participation in this war. The war must be ended. And it is Moscow that must hear the word: ‘Stop.'”
Trump had said earlier that a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin last Friday in Alaska was “productive” and could soon yield a deal.
Good thing trump stood strong on his threats to impose sanctions if there is no cease fire. Oh wait putin said lets do peace. And instead bombed the crap out of Ukraine because there was no cease fire or sanctions. Now trump has said “It’s not a war that should have been started. You don’t do that. You don’t take on a nation that’s 10 times your size.” What is wrong with this moron. Why would anyone believe a word he says.
I don't like that the group is tip-toe'ing around Ukrainian membership in NATO despite apparently being in favor of all of the security guarantees that would go along with it. I think it opens the door to reneging on the overall commitment.
That really wouldn't be anything new. We have already done that to them before via the Budapest Memorandum. They gave up their entire nuclear arsenal for exchange in part due to security assurances. No reason to believe us or anyone else this time.................
Ukraine Symposium – The Budapest Memorandum’s History and Role in the Conflict
Kremlin’s new demands threaten to derail peace talks with Ukraine as Trump tries to seal Putin-Zelensky meeting
WASHINGTON — While President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky work to set up a bilateral Russia-Ukraine summit, Moscow is making new demands that could cancel out the White House’s recent successes in seeking an end to the deadliest conflict in Europe since World War II.
Moscow’s latest foot-dragging includes demands for veto power over security guarantees the US and Europe would provide Kyiv — and specific conditions for a summit between the Russian and Ukrainian leaders.
Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergey Lavrov claimed Wednesday that Kremlin tyrant Vladimir Putin only agreed to thinking about “raising the level of heads of delegations” from previous talks in Istanbul — if certain requirements are met.
The talks would have to be “honest,” Lavrov said, adding that a one-on-one showdown between Putin and Zelensky would have to be a “period” at the end of talks, and not “make negotiations worse.”
The demands blunt the impact of two major wins Trump achieved in his back-to-back meetings with Putin in Alaska on Friday and with Zelensky and top European leaders at the White House on Monday.
US allies celebrated Trump’s proclamation that he had gotten Putin to finally agree to an in-person meeting with Zelensky, as well as agreement on the presence of “NATO-like” forces in Ukraine to enforce terms of a possible peace deal.
Trump, 79, and Zelensky, 47, want Putin, 72, to meet with Kyiv’s president for talks in a matter of weeks and have discussed possible locations for such a summit.
Lavrov also said Wednesday Russia wants one aspect of conversations with Ukraine to include the “political” aspects of any deal, but did not clarify what he meant.
How Kyiv responds to the mystery proposal — which Lavrov said Trump would relay — will be an “important step” to bringing about a meeting of more senior Russian leaders with their Ukrainian counterparts and settling “key questions,” the Russian foreign affairs minister claimed.
Lavrov also took issue with Trump and European leaders discussing possible security guarantees for Ukraine without Russia’s involvement, arguing that without Moscow, such talks are a “road to nowhere.”
“We cannot agree with the fact that now it is proposed to resolve questions of security, collective security, without the Russian Federation. This will not work,” Lavrov told reporters. “I am sure that in the West and above all in the United States they understand perfectly well that seriously discussing security issues without the Russian Federation is a utopia, it’s a road to nowhere.”
Special presidential envoy Steve Witkoff — who attended the discussion between Putin and Trump on Friday — claimed Sunday that Russia’s agreement to “NATO-like security guarantees” that would prevent Moscow from re-invading post-peace settlement was a done deal.
“We got to an agreement that the United States and other nations could effectively offer Article 5-like language to cover a security guarantee,” he told CNN’s “State of the Union” Sunday.
Witkoff added the proposal was offered to Russia as a compromise, allowing Ukraine to have NATO-like protections while respecting the Kremlin’s desires that Kyiv not formally join the Atlantic alliance.
”Putin has said that a red flag is NATO admission, right? And so what we were discussing was — assuming that the Ukrainians could agree to that and could live with that … we were able to win the following concession: that the United States could offer Article 5-like protection, which is one of the real reasons why Ukraine wants to be in NATO,” he said.
“So we sort of were able to bypass that and get an agreement that the United States could offer Article 5 protection, which was the first time we had ever heard the Russians agree to that.”
But instead of sticking with the compromise Wednesday, Lavrov tried to resurrect an old negotiation from the Joe Biden presidency that proposed the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council — including US adversaries Russia and China — as Ukraine’s security guarantors.
He called the draft — presented in Istanbul in 2022 — a “very good example” of what Russia is looking for in security guarantees for Ukraine.
European leaders have pushed back on that proposal, pointing out that Ukraine cannot be expected to trust a security guarantee that hinges on the participation of its aggressor.
“Trusting Russia to prevent Russia from reinvading is a logical fallacy,” a European official told The Post.
“Unfortunately, this is not very surprising, considering that Putin has always tried to avoid any serious peace talks,” another European diplomat said. “That is why we need to continue pursuing a peace-through-strength approach with Russia.”
Monday’s White House meeting included the leaders of the European Commission, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, NATO, and the United Kingdom as well as Trump and Zelensky.
No security guarantees have been officially proposed, but Trump indicated Tuesday morning the US could supply Kyiv with air protection.
There would be no US boots on the ground, the president said during an interview with “Fox & Friends.” European countries, including France and the UK, have previously offered to send their troops to be peacekeepers in Ukraine and deter further Russian aggression.
Tuesday evening, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Dan Cain hosted his military counterparts from France, Finland, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom to discuss the form of any security guarantees, according to a US official.
Zelensky, meanwhile, told reporters Monday that Ukraine would want agreements from Europe to maintain a “strong” military, allow the US buy battle-tested Ukrainian-made drones, and buy $90 billion worth of US weapons with the help of NATO.
Lavrov said he took issue with the attempts to provide Ukraine with protection, saying the Zelensky-Putin bilateral meeting should not be marred by attempts from European leaders to get the US to “strengthen Ukraine.”
“The Russian president has repeatedly said that we are ready to work in any format, provided that the work is honest and does not boil down to attempts — as the leaders of leading European countries are doing — to create conditions that would drag the US into an aggressive, belligerent campaign to preserve and strengthen Ukraine as a tool to contain Russia and wage war against Russia and everything Russian in the region, including Ukraine,” he said.
“President Trump and his national security team continue to engage with Russian and Ukrainian officials towards a bilateral meeting to stop the killing and end the war,” a White House official told The Post Wednesday. “As many world leaders have stated, this war would have never happened if President Trump was in office. It is not in the national interest to further negotiate these issues publicly.”
It's amazing how many people didn't see that coming. As I mentioned before, the last time they had met trump came out after his meeting with Putin saying he believed Putin over his our intelligence community. Why would anyone think trump wouldn't believe Putin's lies again?
“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.” ― George W. Bush
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/e6TL6PJ.jpg)
![[Linked Image from aljazeera.com]](https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/INTERACTIVE-UKRAINE-RARE-MINERALS-GLOBAL-DISTRIBUTION-FEB27-2025-1740694424.png)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
ya think? I thought Trump passed the cognitive test with flying colors.
