DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Haslam Brook Park Stadium Proposal

Haslam Sports Group spokesman currently pitching Brook Park stadium deal to the Ohio House live right now for those interested...

**Refs please move to different thread if appropriate.

I watched it... it's boring lol

Most entertaining part:

Ranking member: "If we do not give you this money what then? What happens to the project? What is the future for Haslam and the Browns"

Ted Tywang (Browns spokesman): "You're really putting me on the spot." <light laughter>

Ranking member: "Does this whole project hinge on us giving you the $600M? What happens if this falls through?"

Ted Tywang: "I guess I better dust off my resume."

LOL

LOL! that was probaly the best part.

my take... the only thing the politicians cared about was having reason/information to tell their "constituents"

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2025...s-600m-bonds-for-brook-park-stadium.html

By

Rick Rouan, cleveland.comJeremy Pelzer, cleveland.com

COLUMBUS, Ohio—The Cleveland Browns are offering state lawmakers new financial assurances in their quest for $600 million in state aid for a new covered stadium in Brook Park.

To help quell skepticism about the team’s request for lawmakers to provide the money via state-issued bonds, the Browns are now proposing to provide $38,250,000 in “up-front” cash that would be tapped if revenue from the stadium project and surrounding development doesn’t cover the bond costs. That amount is expected to grow through interest to nearly $150 million by 2054.

Ted Tywang, Haslam Sports Group chief administrative officer and general counsel, laid out the plan Tuesday afternoon to the Ohio House of Representatives Arts, Athletics, and Tourism Committee.

Under the Browns’ plan, the Brook Park stadium’s anticipated $2.4 billion price tag would be paid for with $1.2 billion from team owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam, $600 million from the state, and $600 million from local governments.

Tywang’s presentation indicates that the Browns are doubling down on their hopes to secure the $600 million from the state via bonds, even as Gov. Mike DeWine is pushing an alternative plan to provide the money by doubling the state’s sports-gambling tax.

Under the Browns' plan, the state-issued bonds would be repaid with state income, sales, and commercial activities tax revenue from the proposed stadium and the proposed $1 billion mixed-use development surrounding it.

Over the 30-year life of those bonds, the Browns estimate that the project will generate $2.9 billion in state tax revenue -- enough to cover the cost of the bonds and put the excess in state coffers.

But some experts have questioned whether the team’s projections are overly optimistic and if the stadium and surrounding development can generate revenue fast enough to pay off the bonds.
DeWine has also balked at the idea, saying that thanks to ballooning bond interest rates, issuing $600 million in bonds could ultimately cost the state about a billion dollars.

Tywang, in testimony Tuesday, said revenue from the project would have to be off by more than 40% than expected for the state to start contributing money to cover bond payments. Even so, he said, the team is offering the upfront money as a “cushion” as an extra way to protect taxpayers, adding that he didn’t know of any other stadium project where a team has offered such collateral.

“This unique up-front payment structure would further hedge State risk and would be the most conservative state funding construct of any major sports-related development in the country,” Tywang stated in written testimony submitted before the hearing.

The Browns would also pay for any cost overruns, he said.

Tywang pointed out another issue that state lawmakers would need to address: Under current law, state funds can only be used to cover up to 15% of the initial estimated construction cost of an Ohio sports facility. Tywang’s testimony says lawmakers would need to approve an “enabling statute” to change that limit before bonds could be issued to cover 25% of the estimated cost of a new Browns stadium.

The Browns’ push for stadium bonds comes as DeWine’s budget proposal calls for raising the state’s tax on sports gambling companies’ gross Ohio revenues from 20% to 40%. That would raise an estimated $288 million more over the next two fiscal years for stadium projects (including the Browns, but also for other teams) and youth sports.

However, state lawmakers’ initial response to DeWine’s stadium-funding plan has been skepticism, if not outright opposition.

It still remains to be seen which stadium funding proposal, if any, lawmakers will keep as they hammer out a final budget plan in the next few months. However, state Rep. Melanie Miller, an Ashland Republican and a Brook Park native, said after Tuesday’s hearing that the committee will consider submitting the bond proposal as a budget amendment to the Ohio House Finance Committee, which is expected to make its first round of revisions to the budget bill next week.

For the $600 million from local governments, the Browns are asking Cuyahoga County to issue its own bonds, which would be backed largely by county tourism taxes and the city of Brook Park. However, Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne has pledged not to provide any county money for plans that move the Browns out of Cleveland.

Tywang said after Tuesday’s hearing that the situation regarding local funding is “fluid.”

During the hearing, Tywang showed committee members a slideshow showing renderings of the proposed new stadium and surrounding development. Tywang touted the project as one of the largest economic-development projects in state history, saying it would create 6,000 construction jobs and 5,000 full-time jobs when work is completed.

I find it a bit ridiculous that other areas bend over backwards on stadium issues, yet not Ohio.

I am not saying that the state should finance the whole darn stadium ..... but in this case, they are not. Not even close. It is a jobs magnet. It is funded to a great degree by the team owners, and they are covering overruns. They are even guaranteeing part of the bond issue themselves. Further, tell me what state wouldn't throw stupid money at a major project, creating thousands of jobs during construction, and after.

Just get this done already. The Browns, even when not very good, bring a lot of people and activity (and money) to the region.

Kinda feel bad for the businesses downtown that will get hurt by this move

I see the Haslams have made some tweaks from their original design concept released back in August in which they had vehicles traveling on the wrong side of the road, European style!

if a business gets hurt by 8 days a year.... they were already going out of business. Besides, most people tailgate when they go to Browns games. They aren't going to restaurants etc.

The businesses that benefit from browns games are in the flats and e4th. Those places get a ton of business already.

The estimate of job losses from the move was 360.

If the city does it right with the location of the stadium... it will generate a ton of jobs income and residential tax as it would be the ideal spot to live in downtown Cleveland.

I mean it looks like a euro-dystopian barn on the approach. I’m sure it will be great for those who can afford to go.

8 days is just football. There's a lot more uses for the stadium throughout the year.

what? like...


3 high school football games, 1 college hockey game and 2 concerts?

especially because it will keep the people who can't afford it out.

In all seriousness, people in Detroit can afford it. We can afford it too.

And Nashville. Their new dome is under construction now.

I wish I could argue this point, but it is totally accurate.

True, but not so much that stadium.

One would think that a city, especially ours would take note when an NFL owner starts to talk about a new stadium. Only recently has the city talked about closing Burke. Well, they should have been doing that 3 years ago.

Once again the city fumbled the ball.

Also with a roof/dome you’ll have more opportunities for events throughout the year… concerts, Disney on ice, monster jam, etc. More events brings more revenue to the area.

I agree,, Sometime back, when we lost the Browns to Baltimore, I wanted them to consider relocating Burke to a more inland location near down town. Maybe get rid of some of the blight in the process..

I also wanted a Dome, Hotel and Convention center at the Burke site. I was laughed at.. 30 years later and here we go again.

I agree,, Sometime back, when we lost the Browns to Baltimore, I wanted them to consider relocating Burke to a more inland location near down town. Maybe get rid of some of the blight in the process..

I also wanted a Dome, Hotel and Convention center at the Burke site. I was laughed at.. 30 years later and here we go again.

I wasn't laughing.

I do get why we got the stadium did...it fit the timeline. This go around there was no excuse. By now you'd think the city would know that haslam doesn't just talking about getting things done, he gets them done.

It wasn't long after Haslam got here he said the stadium needed upgrades, and boom, cranes were in place reworking the upper pound, new scoreboards were installed, club sections were reworked, etc. When the Haslams started talking about the need for a new stadium 3 years ago, the city should have been all ears and there with open arms asking what they needed to do to make it happen. Instead they dilly dallied like a bunch of dummies until it was too late. Haslam is way past the planning and talking phase. He is ready to break ground.

All true,,, This time it's clear that we don't have a lot of options. The facility he's proposed in Brookpark is rather amazing to be honest. The space is available and ready to go.

But, to be honest, Burke is still there and still can be used the way I thought back in the day. I suspect it's not has grand as the Brookpark thing,, But still pretty damn nice.

All in all, I'd rather they be Downtown, but in the end, if they win, they play on the moon if need be.

I'd rather be downtown as well.

The problem with Burke at this point is you don't just shutter up a main airport overnight. To the FAA Burke is a main airport even if you, I, or most others don't see it as such. Any airport that can land large aircraft is much different than some airstrip out is the country somewhere. It might take 2-3 years to shut it down by the time you got all the permits and cleared the land.

You could start all the new planning for the site while all of that was happening, but that comes at a considerable expense. I know there was some question about if the site could even support such a development since it is a landfill site. I am not sure if they could even test for that until the land was cleared. If not, that would be another delay and costly fix to raise the site another 5 feet or whatever to make it ready for construction.

Bottom line is if Burke was deemed as the site for a new stadium, all of that should have started 2-3 years ago. The process has started. Land has been optioned. Architecture work has been completed. Permits are in place. The state has passed laws to raise money from state gambling. The snowball is rolling and betting bigger and bigger. The city and it's weak Modell law and going to get rolled over.

The best thing the city can do is face the facts, open their arms to everybody involved and try to find a way to salvage something for the people of Cleveland, people the city to this point has failed.

Any time you have to go through a process like this with a government you need to make sure the wheel has enough grease.

Just the way it works. Nothing new here.

What a Bunch of Crap Peen !... Ever going to stop making excuses for your GOOD-OLD0BOY buddy . Sorry for the rant , but Haslam and Company make me sick.

Water, you're entitled to your opinion as we all are but honestly this is the price of doing business. Things like this go on all the time and everywhere. Right, wrong or indifferent that's the way it is.

Peen is right. I was going to post "Shocking", because it is truly anything but.

I would be shocked if there wasn't any greasing of the wheels in today's world.

I agree that it shouldn't be the way things work but Peen is certainly correct in saying that is in fact the way things works.

What exactly is a bunch of crap? Excuses? What excuses?

The Haslams looked for property in the city. There isn't enough to build what they want to build. The stadium lease is up in a few years, so there is a timeframe problem.

Ok, you don't like Haslam. Cool. No need to get mad at me simply because I express my views, views I see as reasonable and probably pretty spot on the mark.

Not just todays world. The way the world has been for a long time.

You’re right, ballpeen but I get water’s point to some extent: politicians who can be bought are corrupt and beneath me, to be honest.

But yeah, it’s the way this stuff works. This stadium is going to happen. It’ll still be the Cleveland Browns, they’ll still be in northeast Ohio, just down the road a few miles. Get on board with it.

I don't even see it as being bought. It's more about access. Money can buy you that but it doesn't necessarily buy their up vote. Most wealthy people contribute money to candidates of both parties so they get invited to the right party, no matter which one is elected.

That's very true. However, it does seem to be getting worse, with politicians with no other careers, and making $200K per year, having tens of millions of dollars in a decade or 2.

No disagreement here.

peen says:
Let's call it what it is..a BRIBE...

Sorry man, bribes are given under the table. Something that neither party wants to be seen. This was openly given to a politicians campaign in one form or another. All above board and nothing illegal about it.

The UAW makes and receives contributions all the time. Nothing illegal or sleezy about it.

So it's a legal bribe, then?

j/c...

lol, and now the Bengals have their hand out.

Isn’t their lease up in 2026?

Yep. The team has two 5 year lease extension options it could exercise.

The world and how it hasn't changed- Vietnam War- 58000, Lady Bird Johnson bought lots of Bell Helicopter stock....teacher in Texas dies a multimillionaire several times over working the political handshakes and defense stocks filling the overflowing trough politicians eat from.....same thing at work building stadiums.

No. 2028. That is why the rubber needs to hit the road. A 3 year project ends in July 28.

They can have the stadium and parking complete. The rest might take a little while longer. The state and county will have the roads ready.

the lease ending doesn't really mean much if they get the deal that everyone can live with.. The lease can be extended if need be.

No doubt. With some of the goofballs on the city council, they might try to enforce a 5 year deal and not 1 year extensions, if in fact that isn't already possible. I don't know the terms of the extensions

I hope it wouldn't come to that and force the Browns to play a season elsewhere for a season. That would end any chance of goodwill between the city and the Browns. Heck, the Browns might actively pimp west side restaurants and hotels. "Great establishments and way less crime".

Just so you know, Downtown Cleveland is pretty nice these days. I remember when it wasn't nearly as nice.

I know. I go to games 5-7 times a year for the last 20 years. I stay downtown at least once per season.

Just so you know, those GoofBalls as you put it, are responsible for some of those improvements...

My comments are based on how they have handled the Browns situation. It's one of 3 issues that have any real direct impact on me. The Guards and Cavs being the others. You live in the area so the local politics has more of an impact on your life. If you say they are doing a good job on running the city, you know better than I.

So if I use the term goofball in the future, understand it is simply my opinion on the Browns and stadium issues. After that, I don't pay any attention to the local goings on to any degree. I was glad when Sherwin Williams elected to stay inside the city and build that beautiful building.

I bet the paint job was nice.

This new stadium is going to happen, everyone will come to a financial agreement that works for almost all. I’ve seen it many times in big infrastructure projects, : once the ball starts to gain momentum, it gets the go-ahead.

It’s an old stadium that is no longer upper-echelon.


.

Side note... here is the link for Ohio folks to check and see if they have any unclaimed funds.

Link

When I first heard this story I went to the link and started the process. To say I was pleasantly surprised by what was out there for me would be an understatement.

Here's a question, Say we use these unclaimed funds to build the Browns Facility and then, at some point, those that are owed money come forward to collect, who is going to pay them?

I mean I understand that the amounts that individuals are owed is probably pretty small in the grand scheme of things, but what if?

In the article it said escrow accounts would be funded by Haslam and whoever else to cover any reasonable refunds to be paid until tax dollars covered the money taken out of the unclaimed funds account.

I suppose we can "what if" anything. The money in these state accounts has been accumulating for decades. It isn't reasonable to think that all of sudden all of this money will be claimed in a matter of a few years.

As you said, in most cases the amounts are small. All states have these accounts. In many cases, the steps one needs to take to get the refund aren't equal the effort.

You're probably right, but I would never bet against pettiness.

My grandfather is owed between $50-$100. He died in 1995. I'm sure there are plenty just like that.

Exactly. I looked in my state account several years ago and am owed nearly $40. For what exactly I don't know. I suspect the accumulation of those random over payment/refund checks we get for $2.30 that we set aside and never get to the bank. The company who issues the check only sends one to the named address. After 90 days they just issue it to the state fund in your name so they can close it out as paid.

I looked in to claiming the money, but the steps needed weren't worth the hassle to get under $40.

And that’s how they get ya.

Sounds like he was attempting to dodge the question. I'd guess he doesn't want to put anything out there that might sound like an ultimatum...

I'm hopeful that the Haslams don't want to come across as: Give us the money or we will move the team somewhere else.

From a purely business perspective if another city offered you a nice, shiny new dome and Ohio refused to, what would you do?

They aren't in the Football business for anything other than Money and Ego.

most of the old time owners might have had Loyalty for the community

But in reality, the kinda money Baltimore threw at Modell was something he couldn't pass up. Yet, he still ended up having to sell the team

I'd take the new digs and run or I'd sell the team where it sits and get a boat load more than I paid for it.

Not a surprise.

Not sure who "they" might be. The business has paid the money.

Personally, I think after a set time the money hasn't been claimed...what? 5 years. 10 years, the money should just be added to the states rainy day fund and be taken off the books.

As to the stadium, I am glad everybody has worked out the details and the city has stopped it's foolish attempt to prevent the Browns from moving 2 miles outside the city limits.

I still think there are avenues to explore where the city can still receive money from the Browns.

The city and county and it's citizens have plowed a bunch of money into that facility and for that matter, into the return of the team. The emotional investment shouldn't be discounted either.

Now, what to do with the current facility?

All that aside, Haslam owns the team. He's going to win this battle no matter what. So cut a deal with him that allows the city something to help with what to do with the stadium.. No idea what that might look like.

I totally understand that people as fans consider the NFL a sport and that they have a very emotional attachment to both their team as well as some of the players. They bleed orange and Brown. I get it. In this case I suppose I get it less than most times. The team is just moving down the road so some of the responses have been quite surprising. Not on the board nearly as much overall as in general.

But when it comes to the reality, the NFL is a business, a corporation. It's a money making enterprise to the owners. It's a money making enterprise to the city. The taxes and money a city makes from a team being located there is huge. So what we have been seeing is a struggle over money. Each side putting its own self interest first. None of it has anything to do with the fans themselves. I suppose a much nicer stadium for is a good thing but make no mistake, it will be the fans who pay for that in increased prices.

I've said many times over the years that if the fans could keep in mind that the decisions we see made are strictly about business first because that's what the NFL is, some of the decisions we see being made in terms of players, stadiums and costs, it would be much easier to understand. That doesn't mean we would like those decisions more, but I would certainly make those decisions easier to understand.

I certainly miss the days when a man could take his family to a game and it would cost much less than his entire weekly paycheck. But those days are long gone and we're never gong to see those days again.

Blow it up. Salt and burn the remains. Then call in the exorcists. Maybe use them before and after.


"Sunk costs" are what they are. How much was invested (financially and emotionally) doesn't matter as much as what it is now "worth" (what can you do with it now?) from a business/public good going forward perspective. Chances are, there are better uses of the space than the stadium as it was constructed.

I'm not sure what that looks like either.

I do like calling in an exorcist!

That facility on the lake is excellent. We'll taken care of over the years. I'm not sure if blowing it up is the best idea overall.... in the end, I suspect that is what will happen

I agree, those days are gone and it might not be an exaggeration about it costing a weeks pay. In fairness it has always been expensive to go to an NFL game. I remember my dad giving up his season tickets because the price was being raised to $14 per seat per game. I can still hear his rumbling..."I'm not paying $14 a seat to go watch a football game".

As much as things have changed, it still remains somewhat the same. LOL

Not really. I'm that way about a lot of things. It reaches a certain price point that I'm no longer willing to pay the price they want for that product. That however doesn't mean I can't afford to pay that price. In 1980 a Super bowl ticket went for $30.

1980 -- $30 Rose Bowl, Pasadena, Calif.

By 2000 it was -- $325 Georgia Dome, Atlanta

By 2009 it was-- $1,000, $800, $500 Raymond James Stadium, Tampa, Fla.

https://www.espn.com/espn/thelife/news/story?id=3864815

By 2024 the cheapest SB ticket, face value was $950.

What are you arguing about? I agreed with you.

It is always about value. Either you can't afford an item because the league or whoever has it priced out of a persons range, or the person doesn't think the value it provides equals the selling point.

Evidently the league doesn't have a problem selling the tickets so they are going to sell them for as much as they can. Our stadium sells out on a regular basis. I see many parents with kids in attendance.

I was simply trying to show that when compared to inflation and the average salary, the prices of going to an NFL game has increased for more rapidly. Nothing else. Not trying to argue with you about it.

But you are right. I've always tried to get people to consider that while we think of it as a sport that we as fans love, it's a business and career to those involved on the business end of things. So we're certainly on the same page here. Products will always be sold at the highest price the market will bear.

j/c...



https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Files/Briefing-Room/News-Releases/Browns-Veto-Letter.aspx

Kinda of a dumb question, but what if we use the unclaimed funds for the project and then someone lays claim to money?? Is Jimmy Haslam responsible to pay the claim?

More or less just kidding here. But what did happen is that when this subject came up, the first thing I did is try to find out if I had any cash coming.

I didn't find any. I may not have looked in all the right places but what if I had? I wonder if more folks will check now?

I already answered that question, but maybe you just ignored or missed the post. Haslam has to put so many dollars in to an escrow account to cover at least some of the amount in the event there is all of a sudden a rush to claim money.

The reality there is probably several billion dollars in the state account that has never been collected by people long dead. That money has been collecting and accruing interest for decades. I think I read somewhere the Ohio account has over $4 billion in funds.

The odds of that fund collapsing by a sudden rush of claims is probably not as remote as the sky falling, but you know what I am saying.

Is it possible? Sure, but as close to impossible as it gets.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

As an example, I think it was Con Dawg who said his grandfather was owed maybe $200, and he died in 1995. I am owed maybe $80. For what I don't know. I suspect the numerous checks I got back for $2-3 that i never took to the bank. Not so much by choice. I just set them to the side saying I'll get it to the bank next week and never did.

Now I have to go through a process...download this, get this form, bla bla bla. Frankly, it isn't worth the effort, especially for money decades old that I never missed. I suspect a lot of people have the same attitude.

The money Haslam has to put in escrow is a trivial amount that is to protect the State's investment. I believe it is $50M with an option for a second $50M.


Having said that, the budget bill that passed, caps the amount Sports and Culture entities can "borrow" from the Unclaimed Funds account at $1.7B (now down to $1.1B after Haslam receives $600M). Also, the money has to have been sitting in the Unclaimed Fund account for 10 years or longer. The current account total is around $4.3B. I'd imagine that teams and cultural centers will push legislators to make available more than the current $1.7B capped amount in the future.

You are absolutely correct that it is highly unlikely the Unclaimed Fund account collapses. However, whether or not the loaned amount actually ever gets paid back in full is another story.

Thanks for providing what seems like more accurate numbers, but we are on the same page.

As for being paid back, the state seems to think the ROI will be there over time but no doubt there is always some risk in any investment.

Only time will tell that. I guess in 20 years some will know. I won't. I don't anticipate living another 20 years. At this point I am hoping for another 5 to see the stadium open. Maybe even see a few games there.

It is what it is. I have always been a realist.

The unsuspecting visiting opponent fans will rue the day they stepped foot into the new stadium as I lie in wait to concourse shame their crummy concourses! 😀