The unfortunate part of his argument is that the process that he facetiously described is closer to reality than the process he (and we) would want that he described just prior. But again... if you don't like the laws, you change them. You don't ignore them.
I disagree because we have multiple things going on and someone just wrote a post telling me what I think the process should be. And he's wrong. That makes his post BS. There is no discussion about that. It's 1000% fact.
1. Should people who have been correctly processed and sentanced for deportation be able to stay in the USA? No. (my answer I won't answer for others). 2. Are there democrats and people in the media suggesting correctly processed illegal aliens who are to be deported should be allowed to stay?. I'm not aware of any. I have asked for some proof of Stephen Miller's claim and I have heard crickets. At this point this would be another lie propagated by the Adminstration. 3. Should illegals (and by extension, anyone/everyone) be given due process before being shipped off to a gulag - or simply deported out of the country? Yes. Again that's my opinion.
4. What should due process look like given the numbers involved? Should it take days, weeks, months or even years? I won't say never because there is a possiblity in some very extreme cases where the case is legitimate that it will take time.... but the VAST majority of these instances should be fast trcked through a legal system designed to 1. give the individual their right to dueprocess. 2. be quick and faast in the determination 3. be at the decision and order of the courts - not at the behest or instruction of a government agency. . . . . Does that system exist today? No. So ... should we just ship anyone brown or hispanic out of the country ad-hoc? Or do we need to change the system? I believe we need to change the system ... but until they do, the law has to be the law. Period. No exceptions. That's why if a Democrat is found to have commited fraud - prosecute them. If BLM protesters are violent or steal or deface property - prosecute them. But it has to be the same for everyone.
At the end of the day I completely agree it's impossible and ridiculous to give so many illegals so much time to go through the courts/process that Fate took us through. I personally think if you are caught and in the USA illegally - you have no rights (other than to be treated humanely and processed according the law of the land). But because you face a challenge does not mean that the constitution can be ignored or that individuals do not need to go through due process.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Here's how you all think due process should look: Everybody gets a court date (as if we need to actually prove they're here illegally) Everybody gets to appeal to the Board of Immigration Appeals Then they can file a petition for review with a federal Court of Appeals Then, by all means, even though they were guilty before any case started, they can appeal to the Supreme Court.
I didn't realise that's what I thunk. Thanks for letting me know.
I wonder if that's a strawman argument or just simple BS.
How in the world would that be a strawman? Do you even know what that is? I'm glad you thunk it over enough to come up with that. Great response! 🤣
That would be awesome. I hope there's some follow-through and I hope they also take a look at the immigration process itself.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
For someone that threw their toys out of their pram when I suggested you watch less social media crap, I wonder how you would have reacted if I had told you what you think? Carry on and have a good laugh, that seems to be your standard response these days.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Anybody that believes this is a fool. He just talked about sending “home-growns” to El Salvador. He’s not letting anyone brown come back…
It is a better idea than anyone on the left has. Bring the good ones back if they come back legally. Keep the criminals out. The left allowing fentanyl to come over the border, allowing the sex trade industry to come over the border, allowing the gangs to come over the border. That has worked really well.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
The better idea would be to follow the laws of the land… And if those laws are inadequate for your side, use congress and our traditional methods to change or make new laws. FFS it’s not rocket science. Just because dear leader thinks he’s a god doesn’t give MAGA the right to mud stomp our constitution.
If Obama or Biden pulled a tenth of the crap that Trump has, we’d already be in a shooting civil war here. Keep it up…
Bring the good ones back if they come back legally. Keep the criminals out.
Bring the good ones back and keep the criminals out? Do you mean like the man they sent to El Salvador who had no criminal record?......................
Report: Most migrants sent to mega-prison have no apparent criminal record
Three-fourths of the Venezuelan migrants flown from Texas to a notorious maximum security prison in El Salvador three weeks ago had no apparent criminal record, a CBS News 60 Minutes report out Sunday found.
Why it matters: The lack of evidence of a criminal record is consistent with many other immigrant removals under the Trump administration so far and poses serious questions over the deportations to El Salvador, as a judge ordered at least one man returned.
the fact that we have conservatives arguing against due process is something i'd never thought was possible.
but it's more evidence of what i've been saying for a while now: fiscal conservative/socially moderate men are a dying demographic. the majority now are just variations of hard right-wing ideologies.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I had a moment a week or so ago when Rand Paul stood up to the proposed spending bill… never in my life did I expect Rand to be the voice of conservative common sense. Just shows us all how far Trumps lies and manipulation of the base have moved the party lines. This ain’t the republican party any more. It’s fascism.
the fact that we have conservatives arguing against due process is something i'd never thought was possible.
But stop and take a look at who they are targeting with that. It's people who are not like themselves. After taking a look at that and our nations history, are you really so surprised? And if you are, should you be?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yes it was. And the SCOTUS ordered that the trump administration help facilitate that this happens. Yet there has been zero evidence shown that anything of the sort is happening.
I am not sure what evidence you are looking for? I agree we probably aren't doing backflips to get him back, but you/we don't know what is happening behind the scenes.
I am sure if El Salvador decides to release him, we will have some sort of transport awaiting.
What we "know" is a court ordered them to show measures they were taking to get him back and they refuse to do that. More of their illegal BS. Yet it seems you support that.
What I know is you and some others seem to be on the wrong side of nearly every issue.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Bring the good ones back if they come back legally. Keep the criminals out.
Bring the good ones back and keep the criminals out? Do you mean like the man they sent to El Salvador who had no criminal record?......................
Report: Most migrants sent to mega-prison have no apparent criminal record
Three-fourths of the Venezuelan migrants flown from Texas to a notorious maximum security prison in El Salvador three weeks ago had no apparent criminal record, a CBS News 60 Minutes report out Sunday found.
Why it matters: The lack of evidence of a criminal record is consistent with many other immigrant removals under the Trump administration so far and poses serious questions over the deportations to El Salvador, as a judge ordered at least one man returned.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I do think it is absolutely goofy to suggest that the situation on our border the past 20 years compares even slightly to the Biden border disaster. There is no comparison.
This fellow was id’d as a ms-13 member by the gang unit investigating him, by ICE, by immigration judges in two courts and by a reliable CI. When he was arrested in a Home Depot he was with 3-4 other guys known to be MS members.
He had a restraining order placed against him by his wife/gf because he beat/assaulted her multiple times. This guy is a thug and is here illegally. He had to go.
Ostensibly it was ruled he had to go somewhere besides El Salvaador. Why ?? Because members of another gang wanted to kill him. Hmm. Gangs want to kill members of other gangs, so there is that.
The idea this is some travesty of justice is just bogus. He is gone and we are better for it. Btw, my understanding is that the gang that wanted to kill this fellow is now defunct. Probably all dead or in prison.
It is good to see that the senator from Maryland was able to get away from Washington to go to El Salvador to try to get this guy out of his home country to bring him to America. What is that maybe 1000 miles or so? I wonder why he couldn’t make the much shorter trip to the home of Rachel Morins family to offer his sympathies to the family. It is my understanding that he could not manage to do that. Priorities priorities!!!
Lastly this orchestrated effort by the lefty media to paint him as something he is not . He is not a “Maryland man”. He is a citizen of El Salvador who broke into our country illegally. He is back where he belongs!!
Oober I have said that once the border is controlled and we have removed the bulk of the people here illegally we can then do a complete revamp of our immigration system so I agree with what you said there. But the revamped immigration process has to have at its core the goal of making America better.
What we "know" is a court ordered them to show measures they were taking to get him back and they refuse to do that. More of their illegal BS. Yet it seems you support that.
What I know is you and some others seem to be on the wrong side of nearly every issue.
So you have nothing then? There was a court order in place that the one place in the world he could not be deported to was El Salvador. They violated that order by sending him to the one country the court ordered he not be sent to. A court of law ordered them to comply with showing efforts they were putting forth to get him back and they have refused. The SCOTUS ordered them to do what they could to facilitate his release and thus far they have shown none of that.
And then after all of that you claim it's others on the wrong side of this issue?
As far as I'm concerned deporting him isn't an issue. One issue is you should never put a person in prison with no charges pending and no due process. NEVER! Secondly they even admitted they made a mistake. Courts have demanded that they fix their own mistake and trump has in return given them a big FY.
Now do you think you could actually address those points instead of just saying something that makes no sense and ignores the real issues here this time?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You do know that it was dropped because the lady did not show up for the hearing. Hmm!! That has never happened has it? A woman files for a restraining order or files charges against a spouse , a physically imposing male who has already shown a propensity to beat the crap out of her. Then she no shows out of fear for her life. Ask any da if they have ever seen that happen.
Look you lefty dems keep on riding this man of the year, employee of the year, husband of the year bologna. Ride it all the way to the 2026 election. It should go well with the sensible Americans. While you are at it keep that whole boys have to be allowed to compete against girls going too. Keep supporting that 18 year old male walking into a locker room with four 14 year old girls!! Americans will love you for that one too.
Not that you give a flip but read the young ladies statement requesting a restraining order. Guy seems like a real loser, which makes him great stuff for you lefties.
You righties only hear what you want to hear. Then when you get mad you start slinging BS nobody said. Where did anyone claim he was "the man of the year... employee of the year or husband of the year"? Nobody did. Just more BS from your kind. Since you brought up his wife, here is what she had to say about that..............
"After surviving domestic violence in a previous relationship, I acted out of caution after a disagreement with Kilmar by seeking a civil protective order in case things escalated," Vasquez said. "Things did not escalate, and I decided not to follow through with the civil court process. We were able to work through this situation privately as a family, including by going to counseling. Our marriage only grew stronger in the years that followed. No one is perfect, and no marriage is perfect. That is not a justification for ICE's action of abducting him and deporting him to a country where he was supposed to be protected from deportation. Kilmar has always been a loving partner and father, and I will continue to stand by him and demand justice for him."
"You do know that it was dropped because the lady did not show up for the hearing. Hmm!! That has never happened has it? A woman files for a restraining order or files charges against a spouse , a physically imposing male who has already shown a propensity to beat the crap out of her. Then she no shows out of fear for her life. Ask any da if they have ever seen that happen."
So, while what you say certainly happens, the inverse also has shown to be true. I've done defense work in a past life and got to know many adversarial prosecutors as friends, with a similar friendship as to what I have with many people in this forum, haha.
I've seen it where bogus charges were filed and the complainant doesn't show up because she knows it's bogus. I had one where the complainant was hoping that the defendant was just going to take a plea deal and get some jail time out of it. Fortunately, we found out because she talked about it on the phone line at the jail, which is always recorded. Oops. Oddly enough, that case was actually in Xenia. Murry was the judge at the time. That setup is not uncommon, similar to what you just mentioned, but on the flipside.
That's all to say that the merits do matter and we can't infer the surrounding circumstances.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
But that's not the point is it..... according to the frothing Trump supporters anyway.
What is more important? The law of the land or some Trumptard FB or Twittter post by some rando who says that the judge got it wrong?
Here's the thing. The judge may have got it wrong. The guy may have been part of m13 or whatever the gang is called. But they didn't prove it and - like it or not - what is supposed to happen is the court ruling matters. If the court got it wrong - do better in presenting a case to convict him or process him for deportation. . . . What is NOT suppoed to happen is that the guy gets shipped off regardless of the court decicion.
Last edited by mgh888; 04/17/2512:05 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I think it's hilarious that once again we have someone of your political persuasion who ignores these facts. But in your position I can't say I blame you.
1. There was a court order that plainly stated he could not be deported to El Salvador. The trump administration plainly stated they made a mistake yet refuses to try and even fix that mistake. In violation of a court order.
2. You have this administration placing people in a prison in El Salvador claiming they're the "worst of the worse" while 75% or more of them have no criminal record.......................
Report: Most migrants sent to mega-prison have no apparent criminal record
So as an American do you think people should be sent to prison in a foreign country with no due process and no evidence shown that they are actually the "worst of the worse" just because trump says so?
And before you start, don't try to confuse that with deporting people. If you came to this country illegally you can be deported. That's actually a legal way of doing things. Now could you address those points instead of doing the "lefty this and lefty that" dance?
Do you think the rule of law and court orders no longer apply?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You are right 05, either of those statements could be true. But I find the facts about him compelling. He has no right to the benefit of the doubt. He broke into our country, another donation to American of the Biden border debacle. If you all want to worry about guys like this so be it. Im not gonna lose a minutes sleep over him
I think we already knew that you didn't care about trump breaking court orders, not having proof of his accusations and sending people with no criminal records to foreign prisons. This is what happens when people place a man above the rule of law. And for your information and in case you haven't been paying attention this isn't all anyone is worried about.
But defying due process and trump refusing to follow court orders that this man was not allowed to be deported to El Salvador is important. Except to those who think laws and court orders shouldn't apply to trump. Which is just sad.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You are right 05, either of those statements could be true. But I find the facts about him compelling. He has no right to the benefit of the doubt. He broke into our country, another donation to American of the Biden border debacle. If you all want to worry about guys like this so be it. Im not gonna lose a minutes sleep over him
Fifth amendment. Person not citizen.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.
You are right 05, either of those statements could be true. But I find the facts about him compelling. He has no right to the benefit of the doubt. He broke into our country, another donation to American of the Biden border debacle. If you all want to worry about guys like this so be it. Im not gonna lose a minutes sleep over him
I don't worry about the person individually all that much if I'm being honest. What I do worry about is the precedent, erosion and slippery slope we could find ourselves in if these things keep getting ignored.
That's actually at the core of a lot of my angst, now that I think about it. It's not necessarily the people or the personalities, it's the paths and precedents we are creating (how is that for alliteration?).
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Video Captures Man Dragged Out of Car After Window Is Smashed by ICE Agent. His Lawyer Says They Have the Wrong Guy Juan Francisco Mendez, 29, was pulled from his car in front of his wife on April 14 despite allegedly telling the officers that he was not the man they were looking for Meredith Kile Wed, April 16, 2025 at 3:13 PM EDT2 min read
4.7k
Video Captures Man Dragged Out of Car After Window Is Smashed by ICE Agent. His Lawyer Says They Have the Wrong Guy
ICE agents smashed a Guatemalan man's car window and forcibly pulled him from the vehicle during a chaotic immigration arrest in Massachusetts — and the man's lawyer says they had the wrong target.
Juan Francisco Mendez, 29, and his wife, Marilu Domingo Ortiz, were sitting in their car in New Bedford, Mass., on April 14 when they were approached by immigration agents looking for someone named “Antonio.”
When Mendez told the agents he wasn’t who they were looking for — Antonio was reportedly a former resident in Mendez's building — they demanded that he exit the vehicle anyway, his attorney alleges.
Mendez said he would like to wait for his lawyer to arrive, and that’s when they smashed the window with a pickaxe-like tool and removed him.
Related: After ICE Agents Realized They Arrested the Wrong Teen in N.Y.C., They Were Told to 'Take Him Anyway': Report
By the time Mendez's attorney, Ondine Galvez Sniffin, arrived on the scene, his client was already in handcuffs.
"They said they were looking for a certain individual, by a different name," Sniffin told WBZ Boston. "I said that's not my client... I know my client's history, that is not him."
Mendez’s wife and 9-year-old son are protected under asylum after the family fled their native country of Guatemala. Mendez was waiting on documentation to finalize his own asylum status when he was detained.
He is currently being held at a detention facility in Dover, N.H., however, Sniffin said she’s been unable to obtain any more information on potential charges or why he remains in custody.
Mendez’s arrest is the latest viral clip to come from President Donald Trump’s immigration crackdown.
Earlier this week, footage of federal agents tackling a Venezuelan man in a New Hampshire courthouse — and bulldozing an elderly bystander in the process — was shared by multiple outlets.
Arnuel Marquez Colmenarez, 33, was at the Nashua Circuit Court on Feb. 20 for an arraignment on misdemeanor charges related to an alleged drunk driving incident on Feb. 9. However, before he made it to court, he was thrown to the ground and detained by the agents.
An older man walking with a cane was also caught up in the scuffle and fell on his back.
A judge later issued a bench warrant after Marquez Colmenarez failed to appear for his arraignment. The Associated Press reported that the prosecutor handling his case wasn’t contacted by agents or made aware of the arrest before the arraignment.
As of Monday, April 14, Marquez Colmenaraz was being held at a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility in Texas, according to an online database.
I worry about that as well. I also worry about bogging down the courts process.
Once a person has been determined to be an illegal alien by an immigration judge, that really is the end of the story. They can be deported.
The burden is a two way street. When you or I go to get our Real I.D. as an example, it isn't upon the state to prove you weren't born in Ohio. It's up to you to prove that you were. Burden of proof isn't always upon the state.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Conservative judge blasts Trump administration’s ‘shocking’ conduct in Abrego Garcia case
Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson’s ruling is the latest judicial rebuke of the administration’s failure to follow court orders.
A federal appeals court on Thursday excoriated the Trump administration for its conduct in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man who was wrongly deported from Maryland to a notorious prison in El Salvador.
The administration is “asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order,” wrote Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson in an opinion for a panel of the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals.
“Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done,” he wrote. “This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.”
Wilkinson, a Reagan appointee who has been on the bench for 41 years, is one of the nation’s most prominent conservative appellate judges. His seven-page opinion is the latest — and most scorching — judicial rebuke of the Trump administration’s aggressive moves to sidestep court orders in high-profile immigration cases.
Earlier this week, U.S. District Judge James Boasberg found probable cause to hold administration officials in contempt for defying an order to halt deportations of people deemed “alien enemies.” And U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis scolded the administration for having done “nothing” to comply with her order to facilitate Abrego Garcia’s release from El Salvador.
Wilkinson and the two other judges on the 4th Circuit panel rejected the administration’s appeal of an April 10 order from Xinis directing the administration to “take all available steps” to facilitate Abrego Garcia’s return to the U.S. “as soon as possible.”
Wilkinson zeroed in on the Justice Department’s admission that it had “mistakenly” deported Abrego Garcia.
“Why then should it not make what was wrong, right?” Wilkinson wrote.
Abrego Garcia was detained and quickly flown to El Salvador last month despite a 2019 court order that barred the government from deporting him there because of the risk that he could be targeted by a local gang. The Supreme Court said his deportation was “illegal” in a decision upholding Xinis’ directive requiring the U.S. to facilitate his release.
But the administration has apparently taken no concrete steps to bring him back.
Instead, Trump administration officials have claimed they have no power to do so now that he is under the jurisdiction of El Salvador. On Tuesday, Xinis ordered an “intense” two-week inquiry into the administration’s defiance.
Wilkinson warned of a dangerously slippery slope on the horizon. “If today the Executive claims the right to deport without due process and in disregard of court orders, what assurance will there be tomorrow that it will not deport American citizens and then disclaim responsibility to bring them home?” he wrote.
“And what assurance shall there be that the Executive will not train its broad discretionary powers upon its political enemies?”
And he chided the administration broadly for its contemptuous attitude toward the judiciary, noting its calls for the impeachment of judges and “exhortations to disregard” court orders.
In this environment, he wrote, the executive and judiciary branches are coming “too close to grinding irrevocably against one another in a conflict that promises to diminish both. This is a losing proposition all around.”
Not a deportation but innocent people are getting caught up in a ll of this................
U.S.-born American citizen under ICE hold in Florida is released
Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez was stopped while traveling with others in a vehicle from Georgia to a job in Florida. He was arrested under a law that a judge has temporarily blocked.
A U.S.-born American citizen being held at the request of immigration officials in Florida has been released amid worry by his mother and advocates that the state's anti-immigrant fervor could lead to the same happening to other Americans.
Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez, 20, had been held about 24 hours after he was arrested Wednesday by Florida authorities under a state immigration law a judge temporarily blocked. On Friday, the judge denied a state request to lift the block on the law, according to Thomas Kennedy, a spokesman for Florida Immigration Coalition, an advocacy group. The law allows Florida authorities to arrest people who have entered the state and are suspected to have come to the country illegally.
Lopez-Gomez was in a vehicle with others who had traveled from Georgia and was heading to a job in Florida.
“I feel fine leaving that place, I felt bad in there. They didn’t give us anything to eat all day yesterday,” Lopez-Gomez said in Spanish, according to the Florida Phoenix, which first reported his arrest and release. Lopez-Gomez told the news site that he had told the trooper who arrested him he was a U.S. citizen.
Kennedy told NBC News he was with Lopez-Gomez’s mother at a protest Thursday evening outside the Leon County Jail where her son was being held when she got a call from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement informing her he was being released. Rather than release him where she was, ICE asked her to meet them at a nearby Wendy’s for the officer’s safety, he said.
“I am happy for the family and grateful for them to be united,” Kennedy said. “This man was wronged. There need to be damages.”
Lopez-Gomez's mother told Florida Phoenix she worries that her other children, also U.S. citizens, will now live in fear of deportation.
Lopez-Gomez was born in Georgia and therefore is an American citizen. A judge for Leon County, Florida, had determined that a birth certificate presented at a hearing Thursday was authentic but had said she did not have jurisdiction beyond finding no probable cause for the charge.
Lopez-Gomez continued to be detained on a request to hold him from ICE.
ICE's role is to enforce immigration laws that generally apply to noncitizens. American citizens are protected under the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution from unreasonable search and seizure, arrest and detention.
NBC News has reached out to federal and state authorities for comment.
Mutaqee Akbar, a Tallahassee attorney representing Lopez-Gomez, said he had spoken to him on Friday morning and Lopez-Gomez was "pretty shaken up" by the arrest and detention.
I worry about that as well. I also worry about bogging down the courts process.
Once a person has been determined to be an illegal alien by an immigration judge, that really is the end of the story. They can be deported.
The burden is a two way street. When you or I go to get our Real I.D. as an example, it isn't upon the state to prove you weren't born in Ohio. It's up to you to prove that you were. Burden of proof isn't always upon the state.
I have a CAC so what you say there worries me very little
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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