DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trade for Kenny Pickett

Losing JOK is a huge loss no doubt, there is no good way to replace that production. Signing ex Ohio State linebacker Jerome Baker a veteran with starting experience to play alongside Jordan Hicks should help. If Carson Schwesinger can get up to speed the linebacker group is in decent shape and with Devin Bush, Julian Akwara, and Mohamoud Diabate there is depth also. The defensive line looks solid with additions of Mason Graham, Joe Tyron Shoyinka and Maliek Collins. The secondary had a down year last year but hopefully Martin Emerson and Greg Newsome have bounce back seasons both being in contract years. The signing of Veteran safeties Damontae Kazee and Rayshawn Jenkins to play alongside Grant Delpit gives the back end a chance to regain their 2023 form. Myles Garrett stays healthy the defense always has a chance to be successful.

I guess you are not familiar with Bill!

OC at Carolina under Seifert 1999.

OC at the University of Virginia in 2001, developing Matt Schaub.

The OC in Jacksonville 2003-04.

In Atlanta from 2006-2010, developed Michael Vick (2006), Matt Schaub (2006), and Matt Ryan (2008-2010).

Was the OC in Minnesota from 2011-2013. Adrian Peterson gained over 2,000 yards, making the Vikings the number one rushing offense.

While in Philly as the QB coach in 2014, he split time between two QBs, Nick Foles and Mark Sanchez. They won 10 games.

In 2015, he was the OC for the Raiders. He took a last-place offense and, in two seasons, elevated it to 7th. He developed Derek Carr.

In 2017, hired by the Broncos as their QB coach and was later promoted to OC. The offense finished around 19th.

Hired by the University of California in 2020. Was there until 2022 as the OC.

Cleveland hired Bill in 2023 as an assistant and promoted him to QB coach.

Is that a great resume? I think so. As you say, he has been around. Jack Del Rio hired him twice. Bill is highly sought after as a Quarterback coach. Winning 10 games with Foles and Sanchez was impressive.

First, you make it very difficult to answer a post without any structure at all, but here goes...I'm combining and jumping a little, but it was easier than writing two posts.

Ball control offense does not put pressure on a defense, when done correctly it keeps the defense off the field and they organically become a better unit by giving the opposition less opportunities with the ball. 3 and outs are what puts pressure on defenses. Ball control doesn't equal 3 and outs.

JOK was a huge loss, there is now way around it, but they addressed the position with another player capable in what JOK did in Schwesinger AND also added Jerome Baker to the room. These are two additions that will improve the defense, even with a loss of JOK.

Explosive plays were why they added the two LBers that they did. They both specialize in finding the ball and cutting off lanes.

While the offense does need to sustain drives, they don't all have to be 14 play drives, scoring drives will relieve pressure by changing the oppositions game plan. It all goes together, but you seem to think 15 things need to happen over 1 offseason for there to be improvement, reality is more like 3-4 things need to improve and more will also improve because of them. To echo someone else above, I don't believe this is going to become an offensive juggernaut, but it doens't have to. It only needs to not be one of the worst 3 and out teams in the league to show big improvements.

The Baltimore Ravens has one of the best offenses in the NFL, they do not have either explosive WRs or a passing game that needs to be on display 17 games a year to control the game.

The Browns are 14-16 in the division since Stefanski took over... No one is running over us in the division anymore. It's no stretches of wins that killed us last year, hell we won 3 games and 2 of them were in the division.

Stefanski offense with him calling plays:
2023 16th
2022 13th
2021 18th
2020 16th

Obviously we aren't naming him offensive coach of the half decade, but...

Without him calling plays:
2024 28th

I love guys that predict a win total... There are millions of factors that go into a football season, this is the NFL. It is rare for a team to lose 3 games... the Browns are not bad enough of a team to do it two years in a row. Not that I think 2024 was a fluke and they should have won 12 games, but they had a lot go wrong that can be easy fixes in 2025. I don't think they are a playoff team, but I certainly think we will improve in the win column over last year.

The question was
Now you want to witch about PROVEN COACHES. You don't want the question answered you just want to complain.


See whine, complain, whine, complain.

1st you bring up proven coaches and whine and complain that we didn't hire any. Then you whine and complain because we hire a guy with 21 years experience 19 of then in the NFL as a Qb coach or offensive cordinator. see more whining and complaining.



Just more witching and complaining.


See you didn't read the question or my answer you just wanted to witch.

It's the only time. You can't see much out of a practice in camp or a few exhibition games., especially when you are trying to work 3QB's. I say 3 because Flacco doesn't need much time.

After 3-4-5 games we will have a pretty good idea of what the O can or can't do.

The moves or lack of moves on offense I've seen so much in
the past. That's why I don't share all this optimism.
This franchise hasn't had a legit LT since Joe Thomas
Yet they fail to address this year. Wills was a bust.
LT was a more glaring need a DT from Michigan
The WR room wasn't upgraded. What do the Browns do
Draft 2 RBs. You didn't need 2 RBs ...you already had Jerome Ford.
What Stefanski gonna do...run the wishbone this year ??
This front office and coaching staff has done a poor job constructing a contender
Its the only team in the league not favored by Vegas in any game
That speaks volumes

Really??? When was the last time the Browns

1. Went back to a blocking scheme that the players fit and did away with one that proved it didn't work?
2. Replaced a poor underperforming LT with a young, stronger player, who has looked good at the position.
3. went through a season without injuries (yep we need help at RB and the cupboards were pretty bare.)



As for the rest?

The Wr's were not upgraded, however the Browns will not be using as many WR's this season as they will be running the ball more, and including more passing to the tight ends, and running backs. Plus add in the your guys we drafted the last few years and the team feels pretty good right now.

As far as constructing a contender what don't you understand? That the Browns screwed up by trading for Watson and it set the team back, or the fact that you can't rebuild a team without draft picks overnight?

As far as Vegas not picking us. WHAT THE ACTUAL opps can't use the word I want. That has as much to do with football as the temperature on the moon.

Now as to optimism. Have you seen me predict a SuperBowl this year? How about me saying the Browns would make the playoffs? hmmm maybe I keep saying they will win 8/10/12/or 14 games? NNNAAAA I expect the Browns to play hard and improve. I'm a realist not a optimist or a guy who does nothing but whine and complain.

For three years in a row the Browns haven't had a first round pick and in one of those years no second round pick. They just drafted two very good RB's which we had none of once Chubb went down. That alone is a huge improvement for the O.

It seems as though your issue seems to be you think since they couldn't fix everything in one off season it's a failure. This is a two year process. The trade down in round one points that out. I understand that there will be some who can't see what's really going on here. You just happen to be one of those people.

Let me enlighten you ...when was the last time the Browns were
Serious contenders for the SB ? 1989?
See it's gents like you that will accept any screwy " plan"
The front office presents. It's always a 2 to 3 year plan
In Cleveland. The narrative never changes
Yeah I understand the plan the Browns are going with
I've seen it before in this town . And guess what ...it didn't work
Then. It's so laughable you guys have so much faith in Berry and Stefanski
Yet they have given you so little to cheer for
What are you gonna say in 2 years when the plan isn't working?
Cause last time I checked i see other AFC teams with better blueprints
And better coaches and better rosters who aren't going away
Anytime soon

News flash! You're not enlightening anyone.

"Let me enlighten you ...when was the last time the Browns were
Serious contenders for the SB ? 1989? "

The last year Mayfield was here in good health. What was that, 2020? That was a fun team to watch..

Don’t bother, daman

Waiting for the light.... loading, loading, loading ............ fatal error

1989 hmmmm lets see its 2025 and Kevin and Andrew were what about 7 and 2 years of age back then so yep it's all their damn fault. We didn't do better from 1990 to 2019....

1st off I have never been a gent, and where does this accceptance crap come from. I can't change the Browns, you can't change the Browns so sitting around witching and crying like a two year old that isn't getting his own way sure as hell fixes nothing. Like I said you just want to pout and cry. Follow the team don't follow the team I could care less, but to witch and moan cause your miserable does nothing for anybody including yourself.


As for your something to cheer for comment. They gave me something to cheer for every damn time they played. Every time I got a chance to watch my Browns. I'm a fan if we go 0-16 or if we go 19-0. I'm not a fan ONLY when things are going perfect.


Now what will I say in 2 years. I'm going to say the same thing I said above. I'm a fan if we go 0-16 or if we go 19-0. You see unlike yourself I don't claim to be Miss Cloe or any other two bit psychic. I don't pretend to be able to predict the future.

How about 2023.. As unlikely as it was, we got to the playoffs and we went into them on fire. So you would have to admit, we have a shot.

So basically, you haven't enlightened anyone of anything.,..

Man I gotta try.... Just gotta try!

You type that as if the current regime inherited that turd. They CREATED that turd.

That same regime is now 'trusted' to reverse the flow from the very decisions that THEY made. They inherited a FQB...wanted one better and punted him...now we all crave just a game manager to run Ski's offense. The very offense that they changed last year to accommodate THEIR chosen (F)QB...who had a serious off-filed issue and sat out the year before we snared him because he didn't like the FO/coaching decisions. Turned out the shiny new QB was the first turd that they created.

It's not crazy to be skeptical that the very people who got us here won't be the right people to get us out of here.

Let's talk about 2023. That team was fools gold. Yes it went to the playoffs. But that team showed its true colors in that azz kicking by the Texans
The Browns had some things fall in place that year
For one it played alot of teams that were starting clipboard carrrying QBs
Clayton Tune..wow what a field commander
Justin Fields ..on his 3rd team in 3 years ...see Kenny Pickett
Case Keenum out of the league
That Browns team played cupcakes that year and they got exposed
In the playoffs
Oh fast foward to today ...the Browns are "rebuilding"
Unreal how Berry gets a pass around here

Context means something. This was in response to a poster acting as though every position on the roster should have been fixed in one off season. Try to keep up.


Did not bother to read the thread? The premise was that this team would or would not improve from last season. Nobody objected more to watson being signed to play here than I did. Have you ever bothered reading my sig? Now your premise seems to be that this was all on the FO and Haslam didn't have a hand in all of that. I don't know for a fact that he did any more than you have no way of knowing he didn't.

I'm not sure how the entire context of my post flew over your head but it did and at rocket speed. I think the team will improve over last year. And you? Focus.

Anyone paying attention can see exactly what you did. You started off claiming this team wouldn't improve over last year. Then when people pointed out the many moves that were made which indicate it will, you changed course and started talking about the SB. You're not fooling anyone here.

Nobody gave anyone a pass. The topic being discussed is a simple one and you are the one that claimed the team would not improve over last year. After thinking that through you have now switched up in mid stream.

So does every single team that wins the Super Bowl or makes the playoffs. The years that things don't fall in place is the years they are done after the regular season.




Unreal how a he doesn't get a pass around here, yet you believe he does

What's improvement...Improvement is if this team makes the playoffs
Or not. And this franchise wont be making the playoffs this year .if this team wins 6 games
That's not improvement. It's only a small increase in win total
I got this team winning 3 to 4 games this year .
No upgrades at WR or QB. New OC. LB core is bottom 5 in the league
Your new LT was graded average by PFF.
And the schedule is a bear

The narrative he displays is a simple one. If the Browns make the playoffs it's luck because everything fell in place for them. If they do poorly it's all their fault.

In all honesty I don't have faith in this FO. If they were going to "grow into the job" we would have seen more at this point. But none of that changes the situation they were in this off season. They simply couldn't fix and address everything in one off season after suffering all of the losses in the draft we have suffered over the past three years due to the watson debacle.

Was it the powers that be who put the Browns in that situation? Yes it was. Which is why I don't have much faith in them. But the discussion was brought about by a poster complaining they didn't fix every one of our major needs in one off season. No matter whose fault it was we were in that situation there's no way one draft was going to solve it.

That would be double the wins of last season. I think you need to look up the definition of the word improvement.


Did you watch the difference between the play of Flacco and Winston? It appears not. If your claim is we do not yet have a franchise QB I agree with you. But Flacco is better than Winston and even Pickett is better than any QB we had on the roster last season. If you don't see that as improvement i once again suggest you look up the definition of the word.


So you don't feel having an average NFL LT is an improvement over last year?

Give it up man. Just accept the life preserver before you drown.

It wouldn't be hard to have a QB come in and play better
Than what was exhibited last year . It doesn't take much to appease
Browns fans does it. , you guys are amazing . You've been used
To so much mediocrity at the QB since 99 if a QB comes in
And complete a 25 yd throw he's won you over .
You do realize Flacco is 2 years removed from his 5 game exhibition
With the Browns and his playoff implosion, right ?
And BTW he's not throwing to Amari Cooper anymore ?
Look at the QB rankings...Flacco is 32 out 32 . And your happy with
That .
Let's see ..average LT plus immobile 40 yr QB..equals alot of sacks

I see you still haven't looked up the definition of the word improvement.

Who said they were happy with the current state of the team? I'm not. You keep making BS up.

All that has been stated is that there will be improvement over last season. Is English your fist language?

If your not happy with the current state then why do you defend
Every move they've made?
I know the definition of improvement.
See if the Browns win 4 games this year, that's improvement
But it's not PROGRESS. see progress is making the playoffs
Anything less is not . Your either showing progress or your not.
Theres 2 kinds of teams in the NFL. Playoff teams or not .
You don't awards for improvement.
But then this is a franchise that's won every off season
SB since 2000.

Just clicking, does anyone believe that someone will give us something for Pickett? I mean the bigger upside would be to trade for Watson. he has the pedigree and has at least proven he can play the game at a high level. No matter what, we're going to have to pick up most of his salary....Pickett on the other had looks like a train wreck from every angle.

1, Pickett - we might be able to get something for Pickett after training camp starts and a pre-season game or 2 has happened. While Pickett is a mediocre regular season Qb on his best days, he has historically been a training camp monster.

2, Watson - first, I don't think any team in their right mind thinks Watson will regain his previously proven high level. Then, they can't want to deal with the issues he brings. On top of that, if we trade him, doesn't all the salary that we converted to signing bonus hit the salary cap all at one? We would end up playing with a 22 man roster. I can't see Watson getting traded under any conditions this year.

No one would be stupid enough to trade for Watson, at this point.
Pickett can at least protect the ball, but he can’t threaten a D. Our FQB probably isn’t on the roster unless one of the rooks surprises us , and frankly I have more faith in Gabriel than I do ‘the other guy’.

I think you are right about Watson.. He's just appears lazy. He got his money and now is trying to lay low for the rest of his time in the league... Be that a week, Month, or multi years.

Not sure what FQB is? When you say the "Other guy" do you mean Sanders? Just asking because nothing I saw of the small amount of film at Rookie Camp says anything negative about him or Gabriel!

This front office is clueless when it comes to the QB room
It didn't do its homework on Watson or really closely examine
His film in Houston
Bringing Flacco in again is a joke. How many teams have
Resigned a 40 year old QB in recent memory ?
Gabriel has physical limitations and redzone issues
Pickett is just a bad QB. Does he even have a 300 yd game in his
Resume or a ever thrown 3 TDs in a game ?
He can't match throws with the likes of Burrow or Jackson
Can't make plays off script like those 2.
Pickett really limits the passing game .
Sanders probably has the most upside of any QB
But can Stefanski develop him ?
I have yet to see Stefanski develop a QB that's worth anything

Probably because that hasn't happened. Anyone who reads my posts knows that has never happened. I do often times defend Stefanski because he gets stuck with what they give him.


Progress is the process of gradually improving or getting nearer to achieving or completing something.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/progress

You mindless word salad is getting monotonous. You keep using words that you obviously have no idea the meaning of.

That's pretty much how it usually works when all they're really doing is playing pass and catch in shorts. Nobody pressuring the QB. Nobody really covering the WR's.

Same regurgitation, I can’t believe I keep debating you…

Flacco is the only QB of substance on the team, his issue is that he is freaking old. However, being old, he still has a better skill set than the lower third of the league.

You talk consistently about Gabriel’s physical shortcomings, well Flacco is the opposite of that, he has nominal height, weight and arm strength, even as age degrades it to an extent. His major problem is making decisions based on his physical attributes 5 years ago. If he would just adapt, he would probably be a decent one year band aid to get to the next offseason. Where there might be a viable option to bring in. There wasn’t a viable option in 2025.

Pickett and the rookies are one and the same. Their skill sets are very similar, with Gabrielle probably having the best arm, but limited physical traits. Pickett is just ordinary all around, but this is the best scheme he’s been in as a pro. Sanders is the same in that his physical attributes are limited, but he takes care of the ball, to a detriment, which is why I don’t think he makes it as a pro. He is going to be running for his life if he ever gets in real game situations. He is a panicked QB, they can’t always overcome that. Playing Colorado’s schedule, he could over come some of that, but pro defenses will feast on him.

As for upside, it’s Gabrielle, I just don’t know if he can overcome the physical deficiencies. Some have, but most cannot.

Regarding Kenny Pick-off ...wouldn't Philly be the best scheme he was in?
Everyone seems to think Stefanskis scheme turns QBs to gold
His scheme has yet to produce anything worth sustaining. I mean if his scheme was
All that , how come he hasn't stuck with it over his tenure ?
Theres a old saying, if you have 4 QBs , you don't have 1.
Heck last year in training camp , all we heard was how Dorsey and Stefanski new wide
Open offense was going to light up teams .
I hope the Browns have a good FG kicker this year

Go root for the Bungles

You do realize he was brought in to specifically give Watson an offense to scheme around his “strong suits”? Now that Watson is officially out of the picture, so is Dorsey.

Stefanski has had median offenses, despite having below average QBs to run it. Baker actually played well in the system when he wasn’t injured. The system doesn’t produce 5,000 yard and 45 TDs, but it does win the team time of possession and takes pressure off the defense when it is run correctly. You equate good to yardage and scores. When a team can win games scoring 23 points a game (ala 2023), the offense is doing what it is designed to do. That’s the whole point, it doesn’t put too much pressure on a QB to over produce in order to score 30+ points a game.

Well just when and that is a big WHEN they release Watson as it will be neck in neck with both Flacco and Pickett IMHO!

Well Bless your heart.