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Unless we get a QB that;s 6"10 or taller ain't nobody gonna see over Thanos. (no purple needed)

Unless we can find a 6"10 or taller QB ain't nobody gonna see over Thanos. (no purple needed)

I partly agree but he could also have done this in Cleveland if he had a decent working environment and competent leaders around him.

The Browns didn’t had the patience to nurture a young immature hot headed talented personality like him, they wanted a quick fix instead of organic growth.
That’s on Haslam, Berry and Stefanski.

The excuses have to stop. (Not aiming specifically at you bone)
This leadership is what the results tells you. Sometimes good, often bad, at times totally catastrophic. That’s the bitter truth.

Unfortunately, some people need failure and rejection to finally change.

Mateer from Oklahoma is looking good so far this season. I would like to see fewer ints. But he also seems to throw with great timing and ball placement, hitting WRs in stride and often turning a 10 yard gain into a much larger gain.

I'd love to have the current version of Baker too. The Baker you see now isn't the same guy we had. He needed to grow up and he did. I guess our coaches and FO grew tired of it and that's why he was let go. Baker now along with those 3 #1 draft picks could have us as serious contenders. Sad.

It’s their job to not get tired. (Not attacking you Homewood)
From AI

Coaching is a collaborative, future-focused partnership where a coach guides a client to identify and achieve their personal and professional goals by maximizing their potential and performance. It involves a skilled, non-directive process of asking powerful questions and providing support to help clients generate their own solutions, rather than being taught or given advice by the coach. Key differences are that coaching focuses on the client's future potential and self-generated solutions, unlike counseling which addresses past dysfunctions, or mentoring and consulting which involve direct teaching and advice

The blame lies solely on the Browns.
Baker took us to the playoffs, later got injured but he continued to fight for his teammates despite he couldn’t be his best himself.

What did Berry and Stefanski do?
Gave up, lied, get behind his back, made him dirty and then took the easy route out with paying a fee of $230m for something ten time worse.
Is that what we shall call leadership?

The only thing I'd add to what you said is that the prevailing theory is that Haslam was the driving force behind this last part.

I think your own "evidence" sinks your argument. Plus, it's referring to an entirely different kind of coaching.

For coaching to work, the "client" has to do his part. It's not a one way street. It has to be a collaborative partnership. Baker, himself, has admitted to some culpability. Solely blaming "the Browns" is lazy and is not representative of what actually happened.

I think your one-sided revisionist history with loaded language is lame.

What Tampa Bay did was wait until a talented QB who had a huge ego was humbled to the point he had to bear down and dedicate himself to the game. Even at that it was taking a huge gamble and they knew it. That's why they only signed him to a one year contract. A "show me" deal. As it worked out he responded and it worked out. I'm happy for him.

As much as you would like to rewrite history the facts are there for all to see. That's the bitter truth.

I don't think Baker was ever not "dedicated to the game". But yes, there was obviously an ego adjustment after being expelled from two teams. On that note, Carolina kicked he and Darnold to the curb. 😬

I differ from others in thinking that was the only road to a more mature Mayfield. I think if we had strong leadership and yanked on the leash as soon as he was injured and not performing well, we could have reached point B here in Cleveland. Alas, as D4Life mentioned in another thread, there were some rather pesky contract details going on behind the scenes.

As far as the TB signing, I don't think there was a huge risk there. They were in a transitory (if not semi-rebuild) phase after Brady, and Baker would, at the very least, provide grit and leadership in the locker room for a mere $4 million. We see how quickly things have turned around as they've reached the playoffs both years with Baker.

Mendoza is a 6' 5" and a junior. He played two years at Cal before transferring to Indiana. He's been projected as a potential top 5 pick in the 2026 draft.

It's illegal to put humans on a leash. Unless of course they agree to it under certain circumstances.

I do think the low price of 4 million on a one year deal at least points to their reservations in their belief as him being the answer at that point. A very low risk experiment at best. So I suppose it would be better stated that they weren't confident in him at that point in time. And even then he had to win the staring position. 4 million was no more if even average backup QB pay at the time. I also believe that when it got to the point that was the best offer he could get and after just being dismissed by two teams so quickly, it definitely served as a wake up call for him.

From going to the first pick in the draft to bouncing around just looking for a roster spot had to be disturbing for him.

Maybe that isn't the answer but it certainly gives evidence it may very well be. As I have stated before, none of us can be certain.

This is where I'm at as well. Even though I'm a full-fledged Stefanski apologist, I think it's a black mark on an offensive-minded HC that he failed to help mold a talented QB.

I think you nailed it. Definitely not exuberant confidence, but enough upside to take a gamble at seeing them through a mini-rebuild. Especially if the upside is "we got our guy".

I agree. Where's that damned like button when you need it!?

WTF!
Didn’t Baker do his part in the 2020 season? You know the year when the Browns won a playoff game.
Was Baker already immature in that season? Just asking because at that time nobody complained.

He got injured early in the 2021 season, that’s when the problems started. It was his injury who probably initiated the conflict between him and Stefanski/Berry.
Baker was an idiot to continue playing despite being injured, nobody denies that. Likewise Stefanski and to some extend Berry was even bigger idiots to not stopping him. Older, more experienced and in charge of the decision making. What’s their excuses?

That whole season was full of drama. Baker, OBJ, the Steelers game, Berry’s cryptic interviews, the conflicts late in the season.

Stefanski and Berry should immediately have stopped Baker from playing and heal in 2021. Then they should have negotiated a decent short term extension or a new contract with Bakers agent. Give him an extra season or two when healthy to prove his worth, if his demands was reasonable.

Without the injury and a competent leadership it’s more than reasonable to think that Baker today 2025 would have been the Browns franchise QB.

You seem to be indicating that he would have ever accepted such a deal and then include the caveat' he may have been demanding something unreasonable himself. You do understand those things undermine the very basis of your post, right?

Yes, Baker was already/still immature in 2020. People actually did complain then. link

Problems started before then but winning/Nick Chubb/defense covered up a lot.

You just posted that coaching should be about "self-generated solutions" not telling a "client" what to do. Now you're complaining that they didn't tell him what to do.

Considering as if something that did happen didn't happen is a terrible place to start when deciding what is/was reasonable.

Who Baker was when he was with the Browns and who he became are completely different people.

Baker has said that several times himself.

Probably not visiting The Cheesecake Factory anymore, either.

Might still visit. Just repents for it now.

... and there you have it. Proof that God hates the Browns.

Sometimes a person has to be at the bottom of the hole they dug themselves into before they have no choice but to look up and see God. I always liked Baker's grit and moxey. I always felt we had a CHANCE to win. I personally enjoyed rooting for him and absolutely HATED when we traded him away. What the Browns said with that move is that you should never play hurt for the Browns because they don't appreciate the effort anyways.

Then again it's seems like it took a few years for Baker to really heal up and get better so maybe the Browns thought his career might be over after the way he got injured.

It was a stupid move.

Watson did criminal things, that he managed to buy his way out of. He came here, not because he wanted to be here, or because he respected the staff and wanted to work within the system, but for the biggest paycheck.

The ONLY thing different about Baker on the field today is that his processing through progressions has become excellent...that isn't a result of "maturing" it's a result of experience, coaching and work. He went from a top 20 QB to a top 10. His arm talent and leadership skills are the same since he was in CLE.

He may have matured after leaving, but that is off-field stuff that is meaningless to me unless you are breaking laws and causing harm to others...which he did not. He did not have to leave CLE to "mature". Men in their mid-20s have this odd thing about growing up as they get...you know...older.

Meanwhile, the AB/KS connection has been allowed to "mature" here with 5+ yrs of on-the-job training and we are a dumpster fire. But...but...but...they just need more time to build the team and continuity and all that jazz. Things they have been afforded but would not extend to a young, brash FQB who loved being here.

Lastly, they didn't just blow it at QB with the Baker decision...they had us 'hold their beer' while they epically and catastrophically blew the Watson decision...more than once. Just a few short years ago these clowns went into the season with only Watson and DTR on the 53...and just last year they revamped everything to make Watson comfy and told us Watson was our best chance to win. Flacco...no Flacco to appease Watson...then back to Flacco. That's the best they've done at QB since they decided that Baker couldn't win a Super Bowl? Really?

No way I let these clowns anywhere near the next drafted QB decision.

That is where Berry and Stefanski have lost me. I have no faith in them to pick the right QB in next year's draft. Pick the right QB and the Browns are the Buffalo Bills for the next decade. Pick the wrong QB and we are still in this position for the next decade. That decision is that important.

That's frequently true for many players that come here. That's true for many players on many teams.

True. But most QBs who change teams, particularly high-profile QBs, seem to be genuinely interested in making the team better. I think most of us have never got that impression from Watson.

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Unfortunately, knowing what you need doesn't mean that it is available.

I'm hoping with Gabriel, too.

IMO, Gabriel is an answer. If not the long shot we're looking for, the real chance at a solid, capable back-up. Either way, he needs to get some reps this year. Sanders? I don't think he'll get reps barring two injuries and I don't think he'll be here next year.

If AB and KS are here next year and we're drafting a QB I would sit them down if I were Jimmy Haslam and say we have to get this right this time get some outside opinions on all the QB prospects. If we lose 13-14 games again this year my opinion may be moot.