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He admitted he needed to heal up in his own words. Only it's not what you're suggesting. Just not the kind of healing you're suggesting.

Gabriel may have the Doug Flutie syndrome. He was a leader and won everywhere he played but he didn't look like an NFL QB. Height, weight speed etc.

That may be true. But he sure managed to put together two good scoring drives. One in preseason and one last week. I'm certainly not saying that is emblematic of the long term results but it's a good starting point.

I love Doug Flutie. I watched a lot of games he played in the CFL and I agree with almost everything you posted, except he was very quick with his feet. And very smart.

I liked Doug Flutie too. The guy never got a fair shot as an NFL starter because of the reasons I listed. He was quick but not fast. The guy just won but didn't look good doing it LOL !!! Maybe Dillon can be OUR Doug Flutie!!!!

I just hate the thought of us turning over the reins to a rookie. Not fair to him but the entire team. If our offence continues to look like slop, we probably will.
But it’s not just Joe.

The line hasn’t been good and wide receivers struggle to get open. Jeudy has been playing “Quincy Morgan football”, to quote drop king Q from 2004 or so.

I'm not in love with it either. Flacco will have a convenient minor injury by week 7 if this keeps up. That way you don't look like fools if you have to pull the rookie back out.

Mark my words.

....did you have to put slop and Joe in close proximity in my brain?

Every time I see Flacco I'm going to have the Sloppy Joe jingle going in my head now.

Edit: or probably this

He kind reminds me of another QB who was undersized, was said to have a week arm, and wasn't drafted till the 13th round of the 1972 NFL draft, and who spent TWO years on the practice squad without even seeing the field. He went on to Become the NFL MVP in 1980.

We talk about DG's physicality all the time but maybe he has that "IT Factor" that is always talked about. We'll see soon enough I'm sure.

The story behind the Browns and Baker
Have the Browns leadership learned from past mistakes?

Se he doesn't "know" but he "thinks".

Really , I do not believe this debate and discussion and fingerpointing about Baker helps at all. No purpose is served and arguing about this past with Baker is not transformational. Some seem driven to affix and assign blame for past shortcomings. I chalk this up to more of the same.
Don't fix blame; fix problems! We have plenty to go around now without haunting our past to dig up more. Wasted energy. What has it fixed, and why do some insist on this fixation?
You may not have cared for his games, his picks, lack of mobility, etc. I trust Flacco more than rooks at this time because college does not equal NFL honestly. I am thankful we can put him on the field when he is not injured. I see him helping us even if sidelined for whatever reason. This group has defense, but a few individuals hurt us.
Our decisions have not worked well yet. I believe they can at least be more competitive, but our improvement has to be relentless. Flacco and Ski need to improve, but a list of all the others who have hurt us need too up their game.

Same thing with the Browns organization. They didn't know but they thought it was a great move. The difference is one is a podcaster, and the other is supposed to be a professional NFL decision maker. In fact, the Browns organization failed the team in both instances. Now we're in 2025 and to date, the Flacco experiment has been a failed project, and they still have to deal with the ramifications through 2026 with the Watson debacle.

Let's review:

In February, this team had no viable QB for the position 3-years after running Mayfield out of town. Now, through only 2-weeks of the season, we have fans screaming for the replacement of Flacco with a 3rd round rookie.

In February, we knew 2 things about the o-line. 1) They were an aging group that's injury prone with an untested LT. 2) Four of the five starters are in the final year of their contracts with each of them carrying big dead cap money. Fast forward to 2-weeks into the season and we already have 1 of the players injured and missing game time. LT is a bust and that's being nice. The o-line is clearly showing their age with slowness and weak play. Our backups are 10 times weaker than anyone imagined.

In February, we knew we 1 certified WR with hopes of a couple 2-3 year players stepping up for #2 and #3 slots. Fast forward to 2-weeks into the season, our #1 WR is being compared to a "Quincy Morgan" and not even preforming at a #2 WR which by the way, he struggled to maintain being a #2 WR in Denver. Our #2 and #3 WR's are struggling mightily and can't seem to get separation on 2/3 of the pass plays.

I've been saying for 2 years now that Berry and Stefanski need to go. This roster is their creation, and they are failing miserably. Clearly, when your 41-year QB is making 45 attempts and averaging only 245 yds per game thru the 1st two weeks, you have a serious roster problem.

Why has the "Flacco experiment" been a failed project? He's been a competent QB who has allowed rookies to acclimate relatively smoothly to the NFL. Have the results for two weeks been great against two teams that were considered pre-season Super Bowl contenders by multiple outlets? No. Should we have expected the results to be good? Probably not. Flacco was always a mediocre stop gap.

1. Which is why they signed/retained quality depth in Jenkins, Lucas, and Wypler. Added the guy from the Rams later. 2. It's been 2 weeks and Dawand's coming back from injury last year and switching sides, it's a bit soon to be proclaiming bust. Bitonio has actually been thought well of from most analysts I've seen. If you didn't imagine early season struggles, why were you always complaining so much about everything?

Yes, you've been trying to get rid of Berry and Stefanski for a long time.

I'd comment on the WR but I'm pressed for time.

I like a lot of things abput Mateer
Quick release, strong arm
Excellent runner

Have not seen enough to evaluate his vision and decision making

My concern is that I think he has only ever taken 3 snaps from under center or something ridiculous like that

If the little boy Gabriel looks good - he will play- we might not have to draft a QB.

One thing I noticed about him in pre-season is that he can use his feet to escape trouble. Has a live arm, too.

My top guy at this point is Sam Leavitt Arizona St
But I think he will stay another year in college

Interested in "scouting" Mendoza from Indiana
Haven't seen him play but say and interview and love his personality

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jofP6My9sKs[/video]

You know, no matter what anyone says or opinions they have, it was Mayfield himself who has said he needed to go through what he did to be the QB he is today. That very video was posted on this board.

After that you would think people would stop trying to blame everyone else. But alas as you have shown, they have not.

As usual a quality post Steve.


Correct but he didn’t say he needed to leave Cleveland to become better. Mature, get older, gain experience, find his belief in God and become more focused can you do everywhere in the world. You probably know that. It’s called to grow up.

When a significant portion of our own supporters has totally lost faith and the common opinion in the NFL community outside Cleveland is that the Browns leadership has blatantly failed then maybe it’s time for some reflection? Doesn’t mean everything is black and white and there’s no nuances to why we are where we are but it strongly suggests that something is wrong. It’s not only the results, it’s bad to horrendous bad decisions, it’s the ongoing drama, it’s the excuses, the explanations and everything in between.

When is the time for accountability. Five seasons? Seven seasons? Ten?

Our roster is so mismatched and mismanaged that it probably will take several seasons before the Browns are ready to challenge for any titles. If we’re lucky…Just look at our best players age profile.

Flacco wasn’t even good enough in 2023 to win a playoff game, when he was two years younger. Garrett, Njoku, Ward and nearly the whole o-line are on the backend of their career.
Gabriel and Sanders are both totally untested on this level. Jeudy at his best looks like as a WR2, at his worst not even NFL standard. I can go on but you get it.

We have some talent and we have some good players but it’s simply not enough. Not even our draft picks are enough. Simple maths, one in one out.
Those responsible for this mess is the current leadership. Who else?

It's been said many times and everyone knows the Watson deal sunk us and set us back years. Baker as the QB he is now, and those draft picks would have us as a competitive team. Obviously, our salary cap situation would be much better too.

He actually said if he hadn't gone through what he did he wouldn't be who he is now. I think that covers being tossed around the league the way the was. Unless of course you can manufacture something else it meant.

[quote]Same thing with the Browns organization. They didn't know but they thought it was a great move. The difference is one is a podcaster, and the other is supposed to be a professional NFL decision maker. In fact, the Browns organization failed the team in both instances. Now we're in 2025 and to date, the Flacco experiment has been a failed project, and they still have to deal with the ramifications through 2026 with the Watson debacle./[quote]

If you thought we were going to win the Superbowl with Flacco your nuts, if you though we would win 12 games and go to the playoffs with Flacco your also nuts. Flacco's only here as our best option under the circumstances we are under (which includes being screwed and handcuffed by the Watson deal) Those are the FACTS.

I do not consider it a failed project. I am not as eager to heap blame on Flacco as you have been. We fielded a team, he put up some numbers, and he made some mistakes, some of which are players around him and others are personal. Some of this is silly exaggeration . We realize that your agenda is blame Flacco while adoring the rookie you want to start now. Neither is ready, your fave least of the rooks. You seem to want to carry on about anything wrong and tie it to a QB or whoever you are assigning blame to. I accept Flacco as a temporary stopgap, best we could find that is NFL viable. If we had to do this with Brady Quinn, JFF, or Flipper, then failure. I think part of this issue you declare is in that first line: This is not an experiment. It is a plan to survive a killer gauntlet of a schedule to start this season. It is for the rookies' benefit. Talk is cheap and seldom fixes much. Fans do better somehow.

I think it's much simpler than that. To me it boils down to the fact we're not winning and that gets frustrating especially coming off the heels of a three win season. I tend to agree with you to a point. To the point that I don't see a dogs chance in hell that the Browns can beat the Packers or the Lions no matter who the starting QB is and could only serve to hurt the confidence of a rookie starting.

But I do not however think those who see this differently are trying to lay the blame on any one players shoulders. I think they just see it as the sooner the Browns start the rookies the longer their evaluation window is open to evaluate them. So I get their point and what they are saying.

I just don't see anything positive to be gained in trying to evaluate them against much stronger teams who will overwhelm the browns to begin with. My opinion is to at least give them a chance at starting off well against more evenly matched opponents. It's the entire crawl before you walk thing.

I'm not trying to judge who is right or who is wrong here. I have based my opinion from watching the NFL for many decades and seeing QB's get their careers destroyed by starting them too soon and starting them against heavily favored opponents.

Nobody can convince me that Sam Darnold sucked coming out of college to become who he is today. His growth was hampered and stunted by placing him in a position that destroyed every ounce of confidence he had.

That's just one example as to why my opinion is as it is. But once again, that doesn't make me right and I don't think anyone such as bonefish is trying to undermine Flacco or anyone else by advocating Gabriele start now. He only wants the Browns to win and find out if we will need to draft a QB next year in the draft.

That's what I want too it's just that we have different idea on the best way to accomplish that. I think that's just how simple it is.