an Rapoport @RapSheet The #Bengals are trading for Joe Flacco, per me and @TomPelissero
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
I'm not sure if he can survive their OL. But we'll see
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
The whole situation with DW is nauseating but if we’re paying him we might as well have him for at least a backup. Dillon should continue to play so we can see what we have.
Ah yes, the patented AB pick swap. And that said, getting a 5th rounder for Flacco seems kinda good, no?. Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred 2023 Flacco over a 5th rounder, but it is what it is at this point.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I'm not sure our current Oline situation (currently on our 3rd and 4th OT and looking outside the building just to get by) is really all that much better than Cinci's (still healthy) at this point. They also have a capable'ish run game. They also have receivers that catch the dang ball.
I actually think he's going to look like he did when he got here the first time.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Maybe, on occasion. He looked night and day to my eyes this year as compared to 2023.
I've never seen him with such "happy feet" in the pocket and he is slow as molasses now.
He took 8 sacks in 5 games in 2023 with the Browns. He took 18 sacks and 20 hits starting 6 games with the Colts last year. I know he's a big dude, but he seems a little gun-shy at this point.
Signing Flacco to be the starter W1, then trade him away after W5. After 4 games Stefanski (or Berry/Jimmy boy if the reports are true) sideline their starting quarterback and a week later they trade him away. That’s next level trolling.
You can’t make this up without starting laughing out load. So now we have an undersized rookie as our starting quarterback. A third round pick. In his best moments a gunslinger who can dink and dunk 6-7 yarders on a regular basis but against the better defensive lines he’s still only 5’10 or whatever. He played good under the circumstances against the Packers but now the real test starts.
How many losses can he take before we/the media starts to talk about reinstall Watson, or wink wink have to bring out KFC Sanders as our starter.
I have to check the betting odds. Stefanski out or Watson part two in again. What can go wrong? Wow! Just freaking wow. At least we can’t complain about the Browns entertainment value. A laugh or two, almost every day, minimum,
Signing Flacco to be the starter W1, then trade him away after W5. After 4 games Stefanski (or Berry/Jimmy boy if the reports are true) sideline their starting quarterback and a week later they trade him away. That’s next level trolling.
You can’t make this up without starting laughing out load. So now we have an undersized rookie as our starting quarterback. A third round pick. In his best moments a gunslinger who can dink and dunk 6-7 yarders on a regular basis but against the better defensive lines he’s still only 5’10 or whatever. He played good under the circumstances against the Packers but now the real test starts.
How many losses can he take before we/the media starts to talk about reinstall Watson, or wink wink have to bring out KFC Sanders as our starter.
I have to check the betting odds. Stefanski out or Watson part two in again. What can go wrong? Wow! Just freaking wow. At least we can’t complain about the Browns entertainment value. A laugh or two, almost every day, minimum,
There is a large faction of the fan base that will start chanting for Sanders at home games. If the Browns lose in Pittsburg and then fall behind against Miami those chants will be coming out. Stefanski has asked for it unless he choose to go back to Watson but then the chants will get louder if Watson plays the same. Gabriel did fine for a first start, but he sure did not look like the long-term answer. Dinking and dunking just won't get it done. You can see the train coming!!!
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I wonder how you can tell what Gabriel will become?
He is playing in an offense that has not scored 20 points in a game all year. Obviously the OL is not blocking very well especially at the tackle positions.
Gabriel did not turn the ball over. Made good decisions. Threw some dimes.
No team has passed for two touchdowns against the Vikings. Gabriel did.
For a first game he played as well as one could expect.
Maybe hold your judgement till he plays a couple seasons. Players like Baker and Darnold took years to find their way.
At least see what he can do this season.
You have been trying to bury Gabriel before he played a down.
Maybe, on occasion. He looked night and day to my eyes this year as compared to 2023.
I've never seen him with such "happy feet" in the pocket and he is slow as molasses now.
He took 8 sacks in 5 games in 2023 with the Browns. He took 18 sacks and 20 hits starting 6 games with the Colts last year. I know he's a big dude, but he seems a little gun-shy at this point.
I get what you're saying... it's not like his body got younger/stronger/faster in that time. But my argument is that our offense as a whole has taken a large step back from 2023 that wasn't rectified by switching the blocking scheme back to what it was before. And that's despite the emergence of Judkins and Fannin. The core elements that made our offense effective before aren't working, and quarterback is, at best, third on that list.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
I wonder how you can tell what Gabriel will become?
He is playing in an offense that has not scored 20 points in a game all year. Obviously the OL is not blocking very well especially at the tackle positions.
Gabriel did not turn the ball over. Made good decisions. Threw some dimes.
No team has passed for two touchdowns against the Vikings. Gabriel did.
For a first game he played as well as one could expect.
Maybe hold your judgement till he plays a couple seasons. Players like Baker and Darnold took years to find their way.
At least see what he can do this season.
You have been trying to bury Gabriel before he played a down.
If you want dink and dunk, then maybe you found your guy. I think the best thing I can say is he did not turn the ball over and he ran Stefanski's offense.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I posted earlier in 'What Ifs" that I thought Watson was in play - this solidifies that theory. I also believe that this is another nail in the coffins of Stefanski and Berry. If it doesn't work - bye bye to the duo. I expect Watson to be cleared for practice soon.
A 5th rounder, hmmm. Anyone remember who we drafted in round 5 this year? The media never mentioned it.
I'm not sure what you're asking. We traded Flacco and a 6th for a 5th rounder. They'll get our 2026 6th (actually from Detroit) and we'll get their 2026 5th.
Maybe, on occasion. He looked night and day to my eyes this year as compared to 2023.
I've never seen him with such "happy feet" in the pocket and he is slow as molasses now.
He took 8 sacks in 5 games in 2023 with the Browns. He took 18 sacks and 20 hits starting 6 games with the Colts last year. I know he's a big dude, but he seems a little gun-shy at this point.
I get what you're saying... it's not like his body got younger/stronger/faster in that time. But my argument is that our offense as a whole has taken a large step back from 2023 that wasn't rectified by switching the blocking scheme back to what it was before. And that's despite the emergence of Judkins and Fannin. The core elements that made our offense effective before aren't working, and quarterback is, at best, third on that list.
Can't argue with that. I just chalk up a lot of 2023 to the "lightning in the bottle" aspect. Amari Cooper caught 22 passes for 451 yards and three touchdowns in just three games. Njoku seemed to catch everything thrown his way. Joe looked comfy and defenses played on their heels a bit.
This year, defenses teed-off because they knew we had no OL. This year we had Jeudy looking like he was allergic to pigskin.
so we trade a QB who knows our playbook in/out, to a division rival that we still have yet to play later in the year??? that's just...I have no words. To be fair, we both won't be in the playoff hunt so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
My tinfoil hat theory is I bet Joe asked for a trade on the flight back from London knowing he wasn't going to be the starter anymore.
I'm not worried about Joe knowing giving away the playbook. In the NFL, it's about execution. We aren't executing, so....
It streamlines the QB chatter. We know we're going to get a healthy dose of both rookie QBs this year. They absolutely must answer the question about both of them before the end of the season. Next offseason is the (latest) franchise defining year and they have know the plan right at jump, there can be no real lingering questions. Unless Gabriel somehow overcomes all of our offense's offenses and manages a winning streak in spite of ourselves (which I genuinely hope for), at some point we're going to be treated to Sanders, however ready he is or isn't for probably 2 or 3 games. Point being, Old Joe was never going back in, no matter what the depth chart said. I hope to never see DW grace the field ever again but Joe was more cooked than even he is. And a 5th is better than a 6th. Fare thee well old Joe.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
A 5th rounder, hmmm. Anyone remember who we drafted in round 5 this year? The media never mentioned it.
I'm not sure what you're asking. We traded Flacco and a 6th for a 5th rounder. They'll get our 2026 6th (actually from Detroit) and we'll get their 2026 5th.
Not saying much , just being sarcastic about a 5th round pick basically in return for Flacco. Implying you don't usually get much with that pick, unless you listen to the media storm this year regarding our 5th rounder. Big swing and a miss on my part.
A 5th rounder, hmmm. Anyone remember who we drafted in round 5 this year? The media never mentioned it.
I'm not sure what you're asking. We traded Flacco and a 6th for a 5th rounder. They'll get our 2026 6th (actually from Detroit) and we'll get their 2026 5th.
Not saying much , just being sarcastic about a 5th round pick basically in return for Flacco. Implying you don't usually get much with that pick, unless you listen to the media storm this year regarding our 5th rounder. Big swing and a miss on my part.
Well - on the Browns Joe wasn't going to do much if any better than he had shown so far. So no great loss - but then ... remember when we started DTR and how much worse everything looked. So you never really know.
Joe should look considerably better in Cinci - they have stud WR's and are in better shap even if they have a questionable OL. If he lights it up in Cinci - I would still argue that he wouldn't be any better thatn what he has shown us so far if he had stayed.
It's a commitment to Gabriel who played no worse than Flacco vs MIN - he was better escaping pressure and buying time. So as long as he does not get hurt, I view this trade as good for [1] getting a little value, even low round draft picks have value. Either trading up or potentially adding a player. [2] It commits to finding out what we have in Gabriel before the end of the season. Nothing not to love about this.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
If you want dink and dunk, then maybe you found your guy. I think the best thing I can say is he did not turn the ball over and he ran Stefanski's offense.
Yeah, that dart to Njoku on that TD pass between three defenders looked like some real dink and dunk stuff.
His college highlights showing his arm was posted on this very board. But don't let facts get in the way of your BS. His arm is fine.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Dink and Dunk isn't the KS offense.It is a direct result of crappy oline play.One complaint i had about KS was his unwillingness to adapt to circumstances. perhaps he's grown.
If you want dink and dunk, then maybe you found your guy. I think the best thing I can say is he did not turn the ball over and he ran Stefanski's offense.
Yeah, that dart to Njoku on that TD pass between three defenders looked like some real dink and dunk stuff.
His college highlights showing his arm was posted on this very board. But don't let facts get in the way of your BS. His arm is fine.
Did you see the last play of the game. Most teams throw a hail Mary from mid field and try to get a miraculous touchdown. Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short. You can't make this stuff up it is just hard to watch. Dink and dunk all game long and throw short of the end zone on last play of the game. Gabriel did fine not turning the ball over. If that is what you want. Dink and dunk and protect the ball. Then he is your guy.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Ah yes, the patented AB pick swap. And that said, getting a 5th rounder for Flacco seems kinda good, no?. Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred 2023 Flacco over a 5th rounder, but it is what it is at this point.
I agree. Flacco had no future value to us so getting a higher 5th for a lower 6th round pick is a good thing. With good scouting and a little luck, you can still find starting type players in the 5th round. After that the luck factor increases greatly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Signing Flacco to be the starter W1, then trade him away after W5. After 4 games Stefanski (or Berry/Jimmy boy if the reports are true) sideline their starting quarterback and a week later they trade him away. That’s next level trolling.
You can’t make this up without starting laughing out load. So now we have an undersized rookie as our starting quarterback. A third round pick. In his best moments a gunslinger who can dink and dunk 6-7 yarders on a regular basis but against the better defensive lines he’s still only 5’10 or whatever. He played good under the circumstances against the Packers but now the real test starts.
How many losses can he take before we/the media starts to talk about reinstall Watson, or wink wink have to bring out KFC Sanders as our starter.
I have to check the betting odds. Stefanski out or Watson part two in again. What can go wrong? Wow! Just freaking wow. At least we can’t complain about the Browns entertainment value. A laugh or two, almost every day, minimum,
There is a large faction of the fan base that will start chanting for Sanders at home games. If the Browns lose in Pittsburg and then fall behind against Miami those chants will be coming out. Stefanski has asked for it unless he choose to go back to Watson but then the chants will get louder if Watson plays the same. Gabriel did fine for a first start, but he sure did not look like the long-term answer. Dinking and dunking just won't get it done. You can see the train coming!!!
No, dink and dunk probably won't work. Part of that is Stefanski's nature, part of that was a coach protecting his rookie QB in his first start behind a weak O line.
Unless the Oline starts to figure things out we are probably going to see much of the same. Plus, we don't know how many of the calls last week weren't intended to go deeper but the QB was forced into throwing a underneath route due to a collapsing pocket or receivers being unable to shake coverage.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
It streamlines the QB chatter. We know we're going to get a healthy dose of both rookie QBs this year. They absolutely must answer the question about both of them before the end of the season.
I agree with you in theory, but the main risk to this approach is if we get the answer to this question too quickly. I like DG because I'm not going to get too hung up on his height, but the fact of the matter is that he's a rookie picked in the 3rd round. The likelihood is very low that he's anything better than an average backup. He's shown flashes of good, and in limited action he's kept the catastrophic mistakes to a minimum (at least for a rookie).
It's not hard to imagine a scenario where he falls on his face or gets injured (especially if Oline play continues to degrade), and then we turn to Shedeur and... ? While I like the idea of trying out the new guys, but I have no interest in reliving that clipboard-Jesus stretch.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short. You can't make this stuff up it is just hard to watch. Dink and dunk all game long and throw short of the end zone on last play of the game.
I asked you to stop lying about that but you continue. The second and third pass alone in the video show you are lying. You said "You can't make this stuff up", yet you do ...............
Will this be enough to stop you?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I agree. Flacco had no future value to us so getting a higher 5th for a lower 6th round pick is a good thing. With good scouting and a little luck, you can still find starting type players in the 5th round. After that the luck factor increases greatly.
Especially since this now gives us (3) 5th round picks including the Raiders' pick. That's ammo for plenty of maneuvering into the 3rd and 4th rounds as they will probably all be high 5th round picks.
Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short. You can't make this stuff up it is just hard to watch. Dink and dunk all game long and throw short of the end zone on last play of the game.
I asked you to stop lying about that but you continue. The second and third pass alone in the video show you are lying. You said "You can't make this stuff up", yet you do ...............
Will this be enough to stop you?
No Dillon Gabriel is not the answer. That pick in round 3 was a wasted pick and shows that Stefanski and Berry do not know what they are doing. His performance was about as expected on Sunday. Dink and dunk all game long and really did not move the offense. Only improvement over Flacco was he did not attempt to throw down field and did not turn the ball over, but his play will never lead to winning football. He may end up a capable back up but he is not the answer at QB. Too small to be a real franchise QB.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short. You can't make this stuff up it is just hard to watch. Dink and dunk all game long and throw short of the end zone on last play of the game.
I asked you to stop lying about that but you continue. The second and third pass alone in the video show you are lying. You said "You can't make this stuff up", yet you do ...............
Will this be enough to stop you?
No Dillon Gabriel is not the answer. That pick in round 3 was a wasted pick and shows that Stefanski and Berry do not know what they are doing. His performance was about as expected on Sunday. Dink and dunk all game long and really did not move the offense. Only improvement over Flacco was he did not attempt to throw down field and did not turn the ball over, but his play will never lead to winning football. He may end up a capable back up but he is not the answer at QB. Too small to be a real franchise QB.
You contradicted yourself in your own statement. You call the Gabriel pick a wasted pick and then go on to say he may be a capable backup. Where do you suppose capable backups are found? The alley behind the Cheesecake Factory? Nope. Usually in rounds 3 through 5. Taking a chance at lightning in the bottle is waaay closer to "prudent" than "wasted". If we stay on course and actually find a fQB, Dillon will already be groomed to be a solid QB2. If we don't find a fQB, it won't be because we "wasted" a 3rd round pick in the 2025 draft. JMO though.
Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short. You can't make this stuff up it is just hard to watch. Dink and dunk all game long and throw short of the end zone on last play of the game.
I asked you to stop lying about that but you continue. The second and third pass alone in the video show you are lying. You said "You can't make this stuff up", yet you do ...............
Will this be enough to stop you?
No Dillon Gabriel is not the answer. That pick in round 3 was a wasted pick and shows that Stefanski and Berry do not know what they are doing. His performance was about as expected on Sunday. Dink and dunk all game long and really did not move the offense. Only improvement over Flacco was he did not attempt to throw down field and did not turn the ball over, but his play will never lead to winning football. He may end up a capable back up but he is not the answer at QB. Too small to be a real franchise QB.
You contradicted yourself in your own statement. You call the Gabriel pick a wasted pick and then go on to say he may be a capable backup. Where do you suppose capable backups are found? The alley behind the Cheesecake Factory? Nope. Usually in rounds 3 through 5. Taking a chance at lightning in the bottle is waaay closer to "prudent" than "wasted". If we stay on course and actually find a fQB, Dillon will already be groomed to be a solid QB2. If we don't find a fQB, it won't be because we "wasted" a 3rd round pick in the 2025 draft. JMO though.
Will Howard would be a QB that has potential. He has real NFL size and a winning pedigree. Actually, I feel the Browns will someday regret not picking Howard and where does he end up with the Steelers. The Browns could have drafted Howard and not wasted time on either of the two QB's they selected in this year's draft.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I agree. Flacco had no future value to us so getting a higher 5th for a lower 6th round pick is a good thing. With good scouting and a little luck, you can still find starting type players in the 5th round. After that the luck factor increases greatly.
Especially since this now gives us (3) 5th round picks including the Raiders' pick.
We can get three Shadeur Sanderses now!
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Will Howard would be a QB that has potential. He has real NFL size and a winning pedigree. Actually, I feel the Browns will someday regret not picking Howard and where does he end up with the Steelers. The Browns could have drafted Howard and not wasted time on either of the two QB's they selected in this year's draft.
I'd be willing to make a bet on Will Howard becoming a viable starter. Sig bet?
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Will Howard would be a QB that has potential. He has real NFL size and a winning pedigree. Actually, I feel the Browns will someday regret not picking Howard and where does he end up with the Steelers. The Browns could have drafted Howard and not wasted time on either of the two QB's they selected in this year's draft.
I know! The same way they regret not drafting Aaron Rodgers and taking Charlie Frye in the 3rd instead.
I agree. Flacco had no future value to us so getting a higher 5th for a lower 6th round pick is a good thing. With good scouting and a little luck, you can still find starting type players in the 5th round. After that the luck factor increases greatly.
Especially since this now gives us (3) 5th round picks including the Raiders' pick.
We can get three Shadeur Sanderses now!
Even more enticing than The Price is Right's 'Hole in One.....or Two' opportunity!
Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg Originally Posted by PitDAWG Quote Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short.
This was a lie and the film proves it. Now you wish to deflect and avoid it. Sad, just sad.
He did not attempt that throw did he? Why?
It wasn't because he lacked the arm strength. Stop being obtuse........
Pit...I question why Stefanski did not call for one more hail merry pass attempt knowing the game was still "winnable" had Gabriel connected on the last play of the game.
Why throw short..?
It sure didn't sit well with me because I've seen teams win games on a "hail merry"
Originally Posted by Day of the Dawg Originally Posted by PitDAWG Quote Our QB did not have the arm strength from mid field to reach the end zone, so they threw short.
This was a lie and the film proves it. Now you wish to deflect and avoid it. Sad, just sad.
He did not attempt that throw did he? Why?
It wasn't because he lacked the arm strength. Stop being obtuse........
Pit...I question why Stefanski did not call for one more hail merry pass attempt knowing the game was still "winnable" had Gabriel connected on the last play of the game.
Why throw short..?
It sure didn't sit well with me because I've seen teams win games on a "hail merry"
Ugggghhhh...
I feel like I've read this 30 times since Sunday.
I didn't even watch the game but queued up the final plays to watch today. Another poster keeps droning on about it and questioning Gabriel's arm strength as a reason we didn't call the Hail Mary on the final play.
I feel like this is the Twilight Zone.
We DID dial up the HM -- and Dillon threw it to the endzone -- the play was nullified because the Vikings called a timeout. There were EIGHT Vikings waiting at the goal line.
Furthermore, HM has about an 8% success rate.
The final play was a completion of 22 yards to the 27. Thrash would have been OB with a tick or two left if he were not tripped up. That would have left one play on the clock from the 27.
Some of the coulda-woulda-shoulda junk around these parts is INSANE. 🤣
Flacco will start Sunday against GB. Rare for a guy to play the same team twice in a month (non-division opponent obviously)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
1. Is the Browns leadership on the same page moving forward?
2. In less than 24h they have traded away both Flacco and Newsome. Are Berry already viewing this as a lost season and what does this mean for Stefanski?
3 By not naming Sanders as the back up quarterback and not explaining the thought process behind not taking that decision creates speculations and uncertainty. On the other hand if Stefanski name Sanders as their qb2 all attention will be on the HC to make changes when Dillon starts to struggle. A lose and lose situation. This hypothetical scenario was brought up already after the draft and in preseason as a potential conflict. Now we’re there and once again the Browns HC seems surprised, unprepared and confused being in this uncomfortable position. Why not be transparent from the beginning to avoid these kind of distractions?
If Gabriel isn’t the answer and the Browns end the season with similar numbers as last season then Stefanski will get fired. When things go horribly south someone has to be the scapegoat and the only way to change the narrative and create some positivity is to making changes. Hey! No pressure Dillon. You’re already on the clock.
Once again. More drama than results. Why am I not surprised…
The final play was a completion of 22 yards to the 27. Thrash would have been OB with a tick or two left if he were not tripped up. That would have left one play on the clock from the 27.
Exactly - two weeks before we executed a pass and spike as time ran out. I think the commentators in that game had just said there wasn't enough time to do that ... and we executed it perfectly. We were a finger tip tackle from doing the same thing with the pass to Thrash. I criticize KS a lot - I don't hate that call. And the call has nothing to do with Gabriel's arm strength. Absolutely nada.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm going off memory here so I could be wrong, but I believe if Thrash would have run STRAIGHT out of bounds we could have run one more play. Instead he ran diagonal trying to pick up a few more yards. He caught the ball around the 35 and went out of bounds at the 29. He could have gotten out of bounds with 1 or 2 seconds left but didn't.
I have not rewatched the play - but from memory I think you are right ... it might have only been 1 1/2 yards of 'up field' - but as you say, enough. Am I right in thinking that in the last 2 minutes - out of bounds stops the clock even if the runner is headed backwards (towards his own end zone) at the time he goes out? Or do all backwards plays out of bounds keep the clock moving now?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Do not see.....over analysis of last few seconds of a game diminishes real issues- defense breakdown allowing TD pass- every second counts, but last few are over hipped. You are what you are- 1-4 with questionable O tackles/ generally old O line- we be in analysis mode the rest of season- best return on 1st rnd picks next season---this season is now experimental.....Go Browns!!! We got something for Flacco, surprising. He wouldn't have another second in Cleveland.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
I'm going off memory here so I could be wrong, but I believe if Thrash would have run STRAIGHT out of bounds we could have run one more play. Instead he ran diagonal trying to pick up a few more yards. He caught the ball around the 35 and went out of bounds at the 29. He could have gotten out of bounds with 1 or 2 seconds left but didn't.
You're right. He looked like he had that inkling that he could break the play and score and quickly came to his senses. Too little, too late. I guess that's probably a normal reaction when you turn and see open field.
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Haslams admit they didn’t know what they were doing when they ...
Apr 3, 2022 · Now the Haslams are admitting that their experience with the Steelers didn’t teach them much of anything, and that they didn’t know what they were doing when they bought the Browns a decade ago. www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/...
Obviously, the Browns owners and management haven't learned much in the last 3 seasons either.
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
Who in the hell cares what the media and talk shows think. They make a living by doing nothing but stirring the pot in most cases these days to make a buck for themselves.
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
Do you think the players in the locker room aren't aware that Sanders isn't ready to be the backup?
As of the rest of them that's been happening all along and what does any of that have to do with whether he's really ready to be the backup or not? Tell me you're not that naive.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
Do you think the players in the locker room aren't aware that Sanders isn't ready to be the backup?
As of the rest of them that's been happening all along and what does any of that have to do with whether he's really ready to be the backup or not? Tell me you're not that naive.
That aged well. FFS Pit you must let go of the corner flag and become part of the game.
Stefanski will soon get fired and the only question left is if survive to the end of the season or if the giljotin drops after on a Sunday afternoon..
I kind of get the feeling that the front office has turned on Kevin. I think Haslam is pushing Shaduer and Kevin knows he is not ready. Berry has thrown in the towel on the season. Trading Newsome was just weird, dude was playing good. Now the back up QB story is all over the place. I'm not a Stephanski humper, but in a way, I think he knows that Sanders is not ready, and doesn't want to throw him in the fire and ruin him, but the front office is putting him a position where he might have to. Now the word that Zappe will be back up is turning the fans on Kevin. I think he gets fired before the year is out. Berry has got two firsts next year. I wonder how he will blow that. This is a bad team to work for, or play for. That is sad. 50+ years as a fan, and this is what I get
That is a lot to read into the information we have.... you might be right but I don't know how much influence ownership is having on the decision for qb2. In a lot of ways it does make sense for him to be qb2 even if he's not ready. What I would say is that if KS goes I think Andrew also goes I would say they are joined at the hips. I could be wrong but I can't see how or scenario where KS is fired but Berry stays. My guess is they both stay or both go.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
If Sanders ain’t the second coming, ship him next; I’m tried of his fanboys’ noise… so far that’s all we’re getting from him being here. I’d love to see him be a legit FQB, but he’ll need more than pantomime on Sundays.
Stefanski will soon get fired and the only question left is if survive to the end of the season or if the giljotin drops after on a Sunday afternoon..
Someone should fire you for penning that sentence.
I agree, that’s a cluster of bad grammar at the end of that sentence. Was tired. My bad.
Originally Posted by mgh888
That is a lot to read into the information we have.... you might be right but I don't know how much influence ownership is having on the decision for qb2. In a lot of ways it does make sense for him to be qb2 even if he's not ready. What I would say is that if KS goes I think Andrew also goes I would say they are joined at the hips. I could be wrong but I can't see how or scenario where KS is fired but Berry stays. My guess is they both stay or both go.
Losses change our mood. Too much losses changes everything.
There’s a limit what an owner will take of losses before past plans, promises and commitments flies out of the window. The same mechanisms go for Berry and Stefanski. Even the tightest cooperation changes in nature when jobs is on the line. Whatever they say in public it’s obvious that the Browns decision makers (whoever they are in the end) aren’t exactly on the same page how to move forward. When, where and how gives us that information.
The decision who’s going to be the QB2 is actually quite irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things, he will probably not even play against the Steelers but when the Browns handled this so amateurish they made it relevant and a dividing talking point. Lack of clarity, too much waffles and just extremely bad timing.
Someone will soon pay the price and last on the ladder is the HC.
You came on this website 5 years ago as a 60 year old fan from another country looking for a NFL team to root for. You posted about patients and giving the front office time. Yet two short years later when Baker is gone you all of a sudden become a Keven and Andrew BASHER and have been calling for their heads ever since. Your smelling more and more like a troll than anything else bro.
Despite the controversial title is this guys reasoning sane and worth listening to.
We can like or dislike Kevin as much as we want but when the team continues to lose week after week critical and uncomfortable questions must be asked. According to ChatGPT(ESPN) the Browns has scored 17 point or less in 7 out of 22 games in the last two seasons. (5/17 in 2024 and 2/5 in 2025)
That’s unacceptable from any perspective.
Something needs to be changed. Strategy, Tactic, Personell, Coordinators, HC, GM or whatever. Asking for this shouldn’t be controversial, it’s a logical conclusion to a business model that hasn’t had a functional sustainability for several years.
You came on this website 5 years ago as a 60 year old fan from another country looking for a NFL team to root for. You posted about patients and giving the front office time. Yet two short years later when Baker is gone you all of a sudden become a Keven and Andrew BASHER and have been calling for their heads ever since. You’re smelling more and more like a troll than anything else bro.
You don’t think there’s enough reasons for “bashing” Kevin and Andrew?
Have I been wrong regarding DSW? I was one of the first to call this crazy decision out, but hey, that’s to be a troll. Stefanski and Berry’s results speaks for itself and probably 90% of all NFL supporters outside Cleveland share a lot of my thoughts and opinions. but once again, hey, I’m the troll.
You dislike my opinions, that’s ok and I probably dislike some of yours but the difference is that I don’t call you something personal or dismiss you as a “troll”. How about using that approach to people who don’t share your views or maybe you should instead counter my criticism with better ideas.
If someone wants to lay the blame on KS or AB so be it.
IMO few have the true expertise to really know where the blame should be laid.
The reason is few really know how the decisions are made. Most opinions are based upon nothing but speculation.
The time the Browns have been managed by KS and AB. Haslam has been a highly active owner.
The changes that have gone down over that time have handcuffed the team. The impact of the DW deal was far reaching and still is being felt and will continue for years to come.
KS and AB are not perfect by any means. But IMO they have had to operate under a heavy weight.
My opinion is KS is a damn good coach. I also believe that he would be super successful with stability and competent performance at quarterback.
AB is more of a case of good and bad decisions. He is young and gaining valuable experience. He is smart, self critical and should improve.
Haslam as owner is all powerful and cannot be fired. That is the Cleveland Browns.
KS and AB are not perfect by any means. But IMO they have had to operate under a heavy weight.
My opinion is KS is a damn good coach. I also believe that he would be super successful with stability and competent performance at quarterback.
AB is more of a case of good and bad decisions. He is young and gaining valuable experience. He is smart, self critical and should improve. Haslam as owner is all powerful and cannot be fired. That is the Cleveland Browns.[/color]
I respect your opinion and you probably know a lot more about football than I do but to counter your opinion the Browns results have been bad for so long. Why if he’s such a good HC? We can’t just continue to blame Watson or Baker for all his shortcomings and bad results. After five plus seasons it’s just sounds like bad excuses in most people’s ears.
It isn’t a limited period of slump, we’re talking about 20 game plus and as it stands only Gabriel (and to a lesser extent Sanders) can save his job if the losses continuing without any signs of visible significant improvements.
Secondly some new information coming out lately about Stefanski’s clashes with Baker and DSW. Rightly or wrongly things like this will hurt his images, especially when Baker atm plays like an MVP and had got along fine with Sean McVay, Todd Bolwles and countless of OC’s.
Right now it looks like Mayfield probably was much less of a problem for the teams bad results than the decision makers. I honestly think that Stefanski could become a really good offensive coordinator but right now MY personal opinion is that he lacks motivational skills, authority and is too limited in human interactions with strong personalities (alpha’s)to become a really successful head coach. Time will tell but that’s the beauty of our discussions. Nobody knows until we know.
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
Do you think the players in the locker room aren't aware that Sanders isn't ready to be the backup?
As of the rest of them that's been happening all along and what does any of that have to do with whether he's really ready to be the backup or not? Tell me you're not that naive.
That aged well. FFS Pit you must let go of the corner flag and become part of the game.
A player isn't ready until they're ready. If he had been ready earlier he would have been named the backup earlier. Try to engage your brain.
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Stefanski will soon get fired and the only question left is if survive to the end of the season or if the giljotin drops after on a Sunday afternoon..
Some people have been saying that for a very long time now and he is still here. You are probably one of them. Thus far that hasn't aged well either. Or will you just keep saying that over and over again until it actually happens and then say, "See I told you do so."?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I am a Baker fan. In fact I love watching him play.
However, Baker today is not the same player he was in Cleveland.
Nor do I know how it was decided that the Browns move on from him. At the time DW looked like an upgrade.
Darnold is another guy who has had a rebirth. That is why patience can sometimes work.
Quarterback is the most important position in football. It is extremely difficult to win without competent play from that position.
Deshaun Watson was a no go from the very first second. There’s no “what if” in that context.
Being an upgrade or not hasn’t any bearing in any future decision when you know his background. When the Browns decided to continue despite having all the necessary information, despite being initially rejected then my trust was gone. 100%. Paraphrasing Forrest- Stupid is as stupid does. According to the owner himself it was a mutual organization decision and so far has none inside Berea denied that, the participation in the worst deal in the history of NFL. This shows me that they (Berry/Stefanski) lack spine, a moral compass and common sense. Either you have it from an early age otherwise it’s probably built in your personality.
No way I support them again after such idiocy. Tell me any valid reason why I should change my mind?
Baker’s stats from 2020 aren’t as far away from his stats in 2023-2025 that it can’t be seen as natural progression and maturity by age. As soon as he had an organization who believed in him, treated him well and let him be himself he immediately flourished and started to deliver again.
I have listen a lot to Jason Licht and Todd Bowles and their thought process around making new players successful and I haven’t seen such approach from Berry and Stefanski. The first impression last, welcome someone with open arms, ask questions instead of telling what to do, highlight a person’s strengths instead of focusing on the negative, let the players set the expectations, engage the player in both short and long term plans and so on.
I’m not saying that the Browns didn’t do any of this but we must ask us why it worked for them and not for us. I don’t see the love, the passion, the willingness to the commitment to the person first, then the results. Just saying that Baker had been humbled and matured isn’t fruitful, it’s only a way of deflecting from our own shortcomings.
I’m 100% with you about the importance of a quality quarterback.
That’s why taking a chance on an undersized quarterback is an unnecessary gamble when you have other draft picks with similar abilities but with a higher potential because of height and physical advantages. I believe in Dillon Gabriel to be a decent back up but I just can’t see him as a future FQB taking his team to the SB. IMO he’s a stop gap until the next draft and probably the ultimate reason Stefanski get fired.
The coaches see the players EVERY DAY. The coaches have played the game and taught the game. They see and watch the development of the players. Why does no one accept this ?? The last time the fans saw Sanders, he stunk up the house in preseason, based on that exhibition, I would have cut the 5th round draft pick. Obviously, the coaches saw something in him that I did not and decided to keep him, but that does not mean he deserves to be the starter.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
Stefanski and Berry’s results speaks for itself and probably 90% of all NFL supporters outside Cleveland share a lot of my thoughts and opinions. but once again, hey, I’m the troll.
I live outside of Cleveland and that 90 percent number is made up bullcrap. I hate to tell you but making up things to post IS TROLLING. So if the shoe fits wear it my friend.
The coaches see the players EVERY DAY. The coaches have played the game and taught the game. They see and watch the development of the players. Why does no one accept this ?? The last time the fans saw Sanders, he stunk up the house in preseason, based on that exhibition, I would have cut the 5th round draft pick. Obviously, the coaches saw something in him that I did not and decided to keep him, but that does not mean he deserves to be the starter.
Sort of j/c here...I believe that ^ as well...I have also become of the opinion that the guys who 'see the players everyday' don't really know what they are seeing based on how some critical things have panned out.
All TC of '24 we were repeatedly told that Watson gives us the best chance to win. He was so ready that he didn't need to take a single snap in any pre-season games. The players that saw him every day surely saw something different.
All TC of '25 we were repeatedly told that Pickett is here to compete as the starter...that they really like his skills and think he could strive in a KS offense. Then they drafted (2) QBs (later in the draft as QBs go) and Pickett was traded before the season started
So...after only (4) games in the season, now BOTHh of the seasoned-veteran-presence QBs we acquired to compete as starters are gone.
It's pretty easy for a person to conclude that the guys who 'see the players everyday' really aren't good at evaluating what they see - especially QBs.
Lastly, the simple fact that we don't know who REALLY instigated the Baker and Watson fiascos - as they were joint consensus decisions - is actually the crux of the entire issue with this group. Just who really IS in charge? I think the answer always goes back to the consensus BS...and it is apparent that that tact isn't working.
Stefanski and Berry’s results speaks for itself and probably 90% of all NFL supporters outside Cleveland share a lot of my thoughts and opinions. but once again, hey, I’m the troll.
I live outside of Cleveland and that 90 percent number is made up bullcrap. I hate to tell you but making up things to post IS TROLLING. So if the shoe fits wear it my friend.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable but I rather discuss the reason why this organization is underperforming season after season. Why do we have to find excuses for every setback? Isn’t incompetence or bad decision making valid explanations enough?
It’s five plus seasons now and we’re still worse than when they started in 2020. At some point accountability must be part of the equation.
I don’t care who’s fault it is but when the GM and the HC is part of the decision making, part of the planning, part of the results we see on the field it’s only natural to discuss their part in this. Am I wrong?
You and many others think that they’re doing fine (or whatever word you prefer) and I don’t. It’s that simple. From what I can see on social media, talk shows and internet most people agree with me. You think that’s not correct. So let’s agree to disagree on that part.
I don’t think you will change your mind so I’m not trying to convince you and others anything, I just sharing my thoughts and sometimes my emotions makes me go too far but on other hand the criticism could be much more brutal without being incorrect.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable but I rather discuss the reason why this organization is underperforming season after season. Why do we have to find excuses for every setback? Isn’t incompetence or bad decision making valid explanations enough?
The reason is very simple... we traded for Watson. That set us back not just the three seasons we lost all the draft picks, but for a few years longer as the effects of losing all those picks is still hurting us and we will still feel it for another year or two. It's that simple. It's a fact.
As far as decision making I will be the first to say both AB and Kevin have made mistakes (as have every other GM and head coach in the History of the NFL) They have both also made some great moves. Where we disagree is I realize nobody in history is right 100 percent of the time I understand that. While you and some others around here act like our guys are the only ones who are not 100 percent correct 100 percent of the time, and you act like kids crying because you don't get your way..
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It’s five plus seasons now and we’re still worse than when they started in 2020. At some point accountability must be part of the equation.
It already is. It's just that there is no lynch mob with pitch forks storming Berea to take out our front office like a few folks want. Blowing up the front office and coaching staff every other year is what has lead to our record since 1999, yet you want to see more of that
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From what I can see on social media, talk shows and internet most people agree with me. You think that’s not correct. So let’s agree to disagree on that part.
LMAO ah yes the folks who make money by posting misleading posts just to make a buck, or run a podcast from Moms basement, or who watch one game a year and think they are experts.
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Is that approach ok for you
Any approach you take is fine by me. I will either agree, disagree, or call you out if you make crap up. Any way you chose it's not personal with me.
As soon as he had an organization who believed in him, treated him well and let him be himself he immediately flourished and started to deliver again.
You do realize Baker's own words on this topic are noting of the sort, right? You understand that Baker said he needed to go through what he did in order to mature and be the QB he is now, right?
I suppose you must believe that know more about Baker than Baker knows about Baker.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The reason is very simple... we traded for Watson.
Someone inside Berea couldn’t accept that Bakers injury was part of him underperformed in 2021. Someone inside Berea couldn’t fully handle Bakers strong personality.
Someone inside Berea thought that trading for Watson was a good idea. Someone inside Berea didn’t factor Watson’s past as valid in the evaluation of his future contribution. Someone inside Berea thought that giving up multiple draft picks over three season's and paying a questionable character $230m guaranteed was an excellent idea.
I can go on with all the other failed quarterbacks. The Myles Garrett situation. All the other questionable characters that Berry has either signed or picked.
I agree 100% that it’s impossible to get everything right but at the other hand the above is extreme on the other side of the spectrum. Andrew Berry has made some great picks, especially his last ones in 2025. Nobody denies that but if we factor 2025 as a success then we have to factor the failures too.
Lastly, the most important thing is our results. That’s the only accurate measurement that nobody can dispute. Last season and the beginning of this season the team has been in a free fall. If I read the signs correctly we seem to be in a rebuild again. That’s a huge failure from my perspective.
I read what you say, I understand, I partly agree with lot of it even if I don’t agree with the crucial part but that’s the beauty of being a supporter. Let’s hope for the best today and that Gabriel improve from last game. Peace brother.
Someone inside Berea couldn’t accept that Bakers injury was part of him underperformed in 2021. Someone inside Berea couldn’t fully handle Bakers strong personality.
Someone inside Berea thought that trading for Watson was a good idea. Someone inside Berea didn’t factor Watson’s past as valid in the evaluation of his future contribution. Someone inside Berea thought that giving up multiple draft picks over three season's and paying a questionable character $230m guaranteed was an excellent idea.
Everyone in Berea new Baker was still immature and selfish in 2021. Most inside Berea had no problem with Bakers fire and Personality. Almost everbody inside Berea thought that trading for Watson was a good idea. Someone inside Berea didn't factor in that Watson either wouldn't or couldn't get the job done on the field. (How do you Coach a guy who can't be Coached) I Believe Jimmy when he said the blame lays at the top.
Even if everything you say is true, the top is not the one who is going to be held responsible for the W/L record. Someone, either Stefanski, Berry or both, convinced owner Haslam that they couldn't coach Mayfield and wouldn't win with him. So as a group (so they say) they pursued current top 5 QB Watson and mortgage the team for him. Now, 4 years later, Mayfield is a top 5 QB three years running. Watson coming to Cleveland has thus become a cellar dweller QB only fantasizing about top 5 status.
The only two constants here is that Berry and Stefanski have both been unable to get top 5 performance out of two different players both of whom have clearly shown that capability. Whether that came through eventual progression or past performance - they have failed in both instances. With their documented record now over 6 seasons, WHY would anyone even consider giving these two a high first round draft pick at QB? I don't think Haslam is a gluten for punishment but keeping these two guys makes me wonder every day.
Someone inside Berea couldn’t accept that Bakers injury was part of him underperformed in 2021. Someone inside Berea couldn’t fully handle Bakers strong personality.
Someone inside Berea thought that trading for Watson was a good idea. Someone inside Berea didn’t factor Watson’s past as valid in the evaluation of his future contribution. Someone inside Berea thought that giving up multiple draft picks over three season's and paying a questionable character $230m guaranteed was an excellent idea.
Everyone in Berea new Baker was still immature and selfish in 2021. Most inside Berea had no problem with Bakers fire and Personality. Almost everbody inside Berea thought that trading for Watson was a good idea. Someone inside Berea didn't factor in that Watson either wouldn't or couldn't get the job done on the field. (How do you Coach a guy who can't be Coached) I Believe Jimmy when he said the blame lays at the top.
I don’t share your view but you probably knew that. Btw, did you see anything from Dillon against the Steelers that made your juices flow?
Another stupid move by the Browns. Casting off experience for rookie talent. Another lost season self inflicted. Season ticket holders gotta be like, we’re done with this ish.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
Do you think the players in the locker room aren't aware that Sanders isn't ready to be the backup?
As of the rest of them that's been happening all along and what does any of that have to do with whether he's really ready to be the backup or not? Tell me you're not that naive.
That aged well. FFS Pit you must let go of the corner flag and become part of the game.
A player isn't ready until they're ready. If he had been ready earlier he would have been named the backup earlier. Try to engage your brain.
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Stefanski will soon get fired and the only question left is if survive to the end of the season or if the giljotin drops after on a Sunday afternoon..
Some people have been saying that for a very long time now and he is still here. You are probably one of them. Thus far that hasn't aged well either. Or will you just keep saying that over and over again until it actually happens and then say, "See I told you do so."?
Well Pit, I’m not going to say “I told you so” but I will at least give you the chance to recalibrate your initial standpoint because right now it’s looking more and more likely that he will be fired somewhere between tomorrow until at the end of the season. It’s not only about him losing games, the problems are deeper than that. Unfortunately.
Stefanski and Berry’s results speaks for itself and probably 90% of all NFL supporters outside Cleveland share a lot of my thoughts and opinions. but once again, hey, I’m the troll.
I live outside of Cleveland and that 90 percent number is made up bullcrap. I hate to tell you but making up things to post IS TROLLING. So if the shoe fits wear it my friend.
Hmm.. are you really really sure that 90% who want Stefanski fired is a “bullcrap” number? I”m ready to increase to 95% after yesterday’s game.
If we only look at the 2025 season it’s multiple decisions that Berry has done that I think could be handled differently.
Myles Garrett. When your best player goes on a tour and tells the whole nation media that he demands a trade the you have to ask yourself if giving him a new $40m contract are the best solution. Will he continue to be motivated if the team continues to underperform? What kind of message do you send internally and externally when you reward lack of loyalty?
Joe Flacco. Is it wise to sign an static quarterback over 40 years old on decline (the stats are available) who’s prone to make INT when pressured when you know your Oline is weak and soft and that your receivers has soap in their hands and have problem to create separations? (if you don’t upgrade you can assume it will act similar to 2024 - so the information is there before the decision was made)
Kenny Pickett. First we sign him, then we trade him away. What was the long term plan?
Dillon Gabriel. Is it wise to draft an undersized rookie in the third round and expect him to do miracle without having the right tools when the Oline is among the worst in the league and the receivers are almost equally bad? We can almost guarantee how this will end without even see him play. Pair that with a HC who doesn’t have the flexibility and imagination to changes and you have a well scripted recipe for a failure.
With a little bit of consequence analysis some of these potential issues could have been foreseen and the decision making could have been done differently.
I know it’s easy to criticize in hindsight but if Berry have worked more methodical with a more realistic worse case scenarios studie some of the things we’re witnessing now maybe could have been done differently. It wasn’t exactly impossible to foreseen that we will end up with problems.
To factor every possible outcome, even the unfavorable, is often the difference between average decision makers compared to those who often end up successfully. Those who says that the DSW decision was down to bad luck or similar should probably think again. Once and it never happened, twice and it’s a habit.
I don’t share your view but you probably knew that. Btw, did you see anything from Dillon against the Steelers that made your juices flow?
I saw something you can with complain about that I will agree with
If you want to complain about the offense yesterday ask yourself one question. Why have we heard so much about Joe not being able to run all of our offense (roll out and boot legs) yet in two full games those plays are not being called for Dillon either???
I'm not sure what needs to be explained in terms of Sanders not being named the #2 QB. If he was ready to assume that role he would be named the #2 QB. Obviously by not receiving that designation he isn't ready to fill that role. It seems very self explanatory to me. I suppose people can make up a scenario making this a huge issue because we see silly things like that all the time. That's how it works when people can't see the writing on the wall.
What do you think will be the talking point in the locker room? On social media and among talk shows? Tell me that you’re not that naive?
Do you think the players in the locker room aren't aware that Sanders isn't ready to be the backup?
As of the rest of them that's been happening all along and what does any of that have to do with whether he's really ready to be the backup or not? Tell me you're not that naive.
That aged well. FFS Pit you must let go of the corner flag and become part of the game.
A player isn't ready until they're ready. If he had been ready earlier he would have been named the backup earlier. Try to engage your brain.
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Stefanski will soon get fired and the only question left is if survive to the end of the season or if the giljotin drops after on a Sunday afternoon..
Some people have been saying that for a very long time now and he is still here. You are probably one of them. Thus far that hasn't aged well either. Or will you just keep saying that over and over again until it actually happens and then say, "See I told you do so."?
Well Pit, I’m not going to say “I told you so” but I will at least give you the chance to recalibrate your initial standpoint because right now it’s looking more and more likely that he will be fired somewhere between tomorrow until at the end of the season. It’s not only about him losing games, the problems are deeper than that. Unfortunately.
What "standpoint" would that be? What did I say suggeting he would or wouldn't be fired either way?
Here's what I do know. Now read this slowly this time.....
Most every HC in the NFL gets fired. Very few retire while they're still an active HC.
People have been claiming he would get fired for at least the second season now and some as far back as every time he has had a bad season. If you say that long enough eventually you will be right. How long now have you been saying he will be fired? Did you say it last season? I think you did.
But keep saying it and at some point you will be right. Not that you were in the past.
Hope that clears things up for you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Dillon Gabriel. Is it wise to draft an undersized rookie in the third round and expect him to do miracle without having the right tools when the Oline is among the worst in the league and the receivers are almost equally bad?
The miracle would be if anyone bought that BS. Yeah, they waited until the 3rd round to draft a QB because they thought he was a miracle worker. Do you even read your own posts?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I don’t share your view but you probably knew that. Btw, did you see anything from Dillon against the Steelers that made your juices flow?
I saw something you can with complain about that I will agree with
If you want to complain about the offense yesterday ask yourself one question. Why have we heard so much about Joe not being able to run all of our offense (roll out and boot legs) yet in two full games those plays are not being called for Dillon either???
Good question.
Gabriel isn’t my choice and I think at best he will end up as back up but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have sympathy for him. He’s put in an impossible position and with his HC hanging loose in the air his future doesn’t exactly look bright atm.
Something needs to be done.
We’re on a dangerous slope and our direction must change. Let someone else make the play calls, maybe let the DC be the HC for the rest of the season. Stefanski looks like an empty soul without conviction. My fear is that he has lost the dressing room.
Hmm.. are you really really sure that 90% who want Stefanski fired is a “bullcrap” number? I”m ready to increase to 95% after yesterday’s game.
What do you think, maybe that’s more accurate?
About as accurate as me being 6"7 340 pounds of pure muscle, and having an IQ over 200.
Be careful with that weight. Later in your life so much muscles can convert to fat and give you vascular and heart problems. You’re probably aware of that but just saying. I’m 62 and I can’t even look at unhealthy food without being in danger.
My wife cook fish, seafood, quality beefs, salads with mango, tomato and other vegetables, and I have to drink water. In between avocado, nuts, granat apple and bananas. Boring as fck. Only chocolate late at night when the old lady sleeps. Once in a while when nobody sees a hot dog at the gas station
From reading your posts I bet you are one of those men that sit on your porch and yell at the kids to get off your lawn. They need to stop dinking and dunking on your grass.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I kind of get the feeling that the front office has turned on Kevin. I think Haslam is pushing Shaduer and Kevin knows he is not ready. Berry has thrown in the towel on the season.
I don't see how trying to get whatever tackle help we can and swapping corners where we get a guy that SHOULD be better for our system while freeing up money to potentially fill holes constitutes "thrown in the towel".
There's a ton of season left and we just got through the toughest stretch of games. Right before the season kicked off, we were saying that it's very likely we come out of the first 5-6 games with only 1-2 wins.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
If I understand your thinking,, Your saying that perhaps no body in Berea realized what they had it Baker and didn't handle it correctly. If that's what your saying, I agree.
Was Baker immature,, you bet he was. Did/does he realize it...Sure sounds like it. Did anyone in Berea figure that out.... Doesn't sound like it at all.
Go back and check, when this whole thing came down, I was ticked off. 1. for the way they treated Baker. 2. I didn't believe then and I've been pretty much proven right, $240 Million guarenteed to Watson was idiotic.
For me, it was a character issue with Watson. He got the money, now his lack of character is showing up again.
Baker needed to be believed in, he was worth it and it's proving to be true.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If I understand your thinking,, Your saying that perhaps no body in Berea realized what they had it Baker and didn't handle it correctly. If that's what your saying, I agree.
Was Baker immature,, you bet he was. Did/does he realize it...Sure sounds like it. Did anyone in Berea figure that out.... Doesn't sound like it at all.
Go back and check, when this whole thing came down, I was ticked off. 1. for the way they treated Baker. 2. I didn't believe then and I've been pretty much proven right, $240 Million guarenteed to Watson was idiotic.
For me, it was a character issue with Watson. He got the money, now his lack of character is showing up again.
Baker needed to be believed in, he was worth it and it's proving to be true.
Hey Damanshot, hope all is going well.
The whole Baker thing is like talking about Tim Couch again.
The what if's
They should have done this or that
The batted down passes
His post game interviews
None of that matters anymore
Baker, whether you liked him or not
He's doing what he is doing in Tampa Bay
I was a fan of him at first , then he annoyed me.
Now I'm happy to see him succeed very well in Tampa
Well after watching Thursday night football one thing is apparent. If you give him a line that can block and receivers that can catch, Joe is still a pretty good quarterback.
His play demonstrated the glaring weakness of the offense Stefanski and Berry have built. They have destroyed the offense first by sabotaging Baker, then letting our line grow old and slow and built a butterfinger receiver corp. These guys need to go and we need someone who knows what they are doing do the rebuild.
In my Gm brain I would like to see next year’s draft used to add offensive talent and give the two young qbs a chance to show what they can do with some talent around them.
Joe looked good against PIT last night and not good against GB the week before. I'll wait before I go blaming this organization or the coach because of last night's game. I know what I saw with Joe playing the first few weeks of the season and it wasn't good. And I was someone who felt the job should have been his well over Pickett.
That said, it wasn't all Joe's fault. This OL has been disgusting and we've been dropping passes left and right.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
If I have heard the word “collaborative “ to describe the relationship between Stefanski and Berry once I have heard it two dozen times. I know what collaboration looks like. I think it means they work together in determining the personnel needs of the team. Berry has the final say but they collaborate in determining those needs.
That is my take and others are certainly free to have other takes. It’s a free country.
Joe looked good against PIT last night and not good against GB the week before. I'll wait before I go blaming this organization or the coach because of last night's game. I know what I saw with Joe playing the first few weeks of the season and it wasn't good. And I was someone who felt the job should have been his well over Pickett.
That said, it wasn't all Joe's fault. This OL has been disgusting and we've been dropping passes left and right.
No doubt drops hurt. Heck, on at least one occasion he hit an open receiver in the ear hole because he wasn't looking.
I am not sure if that counts as a drop or not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
In the off season, the Browns had the 31st ranked roster talent wise in the league . Their draft was questionable. Drafting 2 QBs with glaring needs at WR, and OT. But some fans actually Thought this was a playoff caliber team . All this hype about returning to a familiar Blocking Scheme was going to fix everything. Nobody wanted to hear how bad the Browns WR room was . The offense has no identity. We kept on hearing how great of a GM Andrew Berry . Trading Flacco to a division rival is almost unheard of in recent NFL history . Not since Craig Morton was traded 50 years ago. Finally reality is setting in . This front office and coaching staff needs overhauled going foward
I think if you look at the season prediction thread you will see that the only people who thought this team would be good this year were the perennial homers. Most people were well aware this team would not be good this year. This bad? Once again, I think if you look back at that thread you will see that many felt the Browns might not even win one of their first six games when looking at the schedule.
It wasn't that hard to see it coming. It becomes much harder and more frustrating when you have to watch it as it happens.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think folks who had any positive vibes preseason were hanging their hats on the defense, which most believed it was gonna be really good. But the o hasn’t been just bad, it has been horrible. So we are once again floating around in the swamp of mediocrity. Obviously we need one of these young qbs to step up and make a splash. Then we build an offense.
More a post about Gabriel and the people already having written him off - but Flacco just posted 470 yards and 4 TD ... his last 3 games for the Browns he couldn't even get to 200 yards if my memory serves. Judging what Gabriel might be behind our OL and with the Browns WR's is an excercise in futility. Gabriel may end up being limited by talent and height - and he may not look like a world beater after 4 games as a rookie ... but there are a bonefide reasons. Maybe you think Stefanski gives his rookie QB a chancee to succeed despite the lack of talent on offense. . . personally I don't and I'll site the 52 pass attempts away to Pitsburgh as a classic example of why. Just my 2 cents but the difference in play exhibited by Flacco is all you need to see to know Gabriel has zero chance this year to impress anyone.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Cincy has 2 WRs who can catch the ball and while their offensive line isn't great it's a LOT better than our injury ridden one.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Gabriel has looked bad. Flacco looked as bad or possibly worse with his lack of mobility. We had a lot of comments about how absolutely done and dusted Flacco is, how old he looked and a shell of himself even from his stint here a couple of yearss ago. . . . he goes to Cinci and suddenly he's playing at a decent/good NFL level./ The difference isn't Flacco suddenly got his mojo. It's because of a number of other factors not in Flacco's control. OL. WR. Play calling. . . . . So I do not agree or understand anyone who wants to rush to pronounce what Gabriel's ceiling is.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Gabriel is a good, solid QB. Just not someone that can put the team on his shoulders and carry it. We had that in Kosar. We had that with Sipe and Graham. One could say we had that with Mayfield as well. But not Gabriel. Is Sanders that guy? No idea. Maybe.
We ain't going anywhere until we find that guy!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Gabriel is a good, solid QB. Just not someone that can put the team on his shoulders and carry it.
Just curious. How many rookie NFL QB's with four starts would you say can put their team on their shoulders and carry it? I'm not saying Gabriele will ever be able to do that. What I will say is people sure are making some definitive assessments based on a small sample size.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Gabriel is a good, solid QB. Just not someone that can put the team on his shoulders and carry it.
Just curious. How many rookie NFL QB's with four starts would you say can put their team on their shoulders and carry it? I'm not saying Gabriele will ever be able to do that. What I will say is people sure are making some definitive assessments based on a small sample size.
Baker Mayfield showed lots in his first four games. Mahomes,,, but to be fair, he didn't play his first year... But when he took over, you could see "IT"! Russell Wilson, Bernie Kosar, Joe Montana, Dan Marino!
Keep in mind, winning isn't part of my thinking. Just their play. They effort you see, the way that other players respond to them...
I remember when Big Ben started for the Steelers. Jerome Bettis said, hey we were worried. Is this kid for real... Soon enough they learned to lean on him, he was for real.
I could probably come up with more, but you get the drift
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/04/2503:26 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
So you expect a third round rookie to be starting out at that same level? If he were at that stage of development he wouldn't have been on the draft board in round 3. Context is important here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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