KS had a good resume. Berry was for sure qualified and he had been in the building.
Both young smart guys. The decision to hire them was based upon how they would work together. It was a critical point in the hiring process.
There is a part of me that says "stay the course." That is because both are bright young guys who should learn from mistakes. They are both self critical and open minded.
The area of improvement for Berry is consistency in the draft and a better vision of roster structure. Will he improve in those aspects?
Haslam has to decide that. The 2025 draft is encouraging.
KS IMO is a good coach. However, the area that he needs improvement IMO is strategic game planning. Understanding the best way to attack the defense of the opposing team. The issue is he may know but does not have the personnel to execute the his game plan. Case in point the strength of the receiver room. You can have an attack plan and not have the receivers to actually implement the plan.
This season still has eleven games to go. The schedule is easier. A rookie 3rd round pick is starting behind a horrible OL. KS needs to win some games. A locker room is fragile and losing is like rust eating metal.
Hiring a new regime is not always the answer. Haslam knows first hand. A perceived need to change does not mean you will hire the right people.
Hire the wrong people is like throwing away years.
Haslam has that decision to make. He is the captain of the ship.
Joe Flacco's play in Cincinnati is yet another indictment against Berry and Stefanski not knowing what talent looks like. They gave up on Flacco way to early. Replaced him with a QB they reached for in the draft. Flacco far and away gave the Browns the best shot at winning games. They should have beat Cincy. They probably would have beat Minnesota with Flacco. Lose this Sunday to Miami and both of these two need to be shown the door in Cleveland.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Stefanski decided that a rookie gave the team the best chance to win vs a veteran that actually did give the team the best chance to win. The Tackles and the Wide receivers on this roster or lack of on this roster yes are clearly on Andrew Berry. The decision to move on from Flacco is on Stefanski. He is getting the play he clearly wants dink and dunk. He found his dink and dunk QB.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
The Browns took a DT in the 2nd Rd last year...then doubled down with another DT in the 1st Rd this year...all the while knowing how putrid was their WR room and with an old, injury-prone OL.
In the 2021 draft, the Bengals desperately needed an OT. Penny Sewell was there for the taking...instead they chose Jamaar Chase. In the 2020 draft the Bengals chose Tee Higgins.
So...the Browns doubled-down on DTs and the Bengals doubled-down on WRs. No one knows who is/are the Bengals DTs...and on one knows who are the Browns WRs.
And all THAT after the Watson debacle and with finally having a 1st Rd pick after what seemed like a lifetime...they doubled-down at DT. Outsmarting everyone all along the way.
In our 2020 playoff year, we had Jarvis Landry (840 yards), Rashad Higgins (599) and Odell Cancer for about 1/2 the year.
In 2021, we had Landry, DPJ and Odell Cancer - with Anthony Schwartz.
In 2022, we had Amari Cooper, DPJ, and David Bell - with Anthony Schwartz.
In 2023, we had A Cooper, E Moore and Ced Tillman - with David Bell.
In 2024, we had Jeudy, E Moore and Ced Tillman - after trading A Cooper.
In 2025, we didn't draft a single WR or OL...but we did get that touchdown-scoring machine at DT.
Is everyone on the 'Consensus Team' afraid to mention the situation at WR? Or do/did they all think it was just fine?
The Bengals called about trading for Flacco. They don't talk to KS. They talk to Berry.
Flacco is 40 and would not be playing anymore in Cleveland.
The trade gave them a 5th for a 6th.
The Browns have two rookie quarterbacks. The record was 1-4. They have two first round picks in the 26 draft.
The team was never going to compete for the playoffs with this roster.
They need to find out what the two rookies can do. Wins and loses at this point do not matter.
They have the rest of this season to find out about Gabriel and Sanders.
This is not hard to figure out.
Wins and losses are the only thing the game is about!!! Flacco was traded by Berry because Stefanski benched Flacco. If Flacco would have played the entire season and the team would have made the playoffs the Browns were still drafting a QB in 2026. Gabriel and Sanders are not going to change that plan either. It was disfunction drafting one 3 rounds early and drafting the other one at all. The only way to get rid of disfunction is to remove the two that caused the disfunction. Berry and Stefanski.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I had no idea that Stefanski was in charge of making trades. If so what is Berry's job? Please, do tell us more. Or do you have any more? Gabriele was not drafted "3 rounds early". You're basing that on the same people who claimed Sanders was a first round pick.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Stefanski decided that a rookie gave the team the best chance to win vs a veteran that actually did give the team the best chance to win.
Are we sure this was solely a Stefanski decision?
Haslam's comments just before the season started...
However, Haslam made it clear during his camp conversation he believes it's important that the rookies be evaluated in a game situation. That's especially true with the looming 2026 draft question.
"Absolutely. Absolutely," Haslam said. "But, I mean, Kevin is aware of that. He knows how important quarterback is, and he and Andrew talk about those kinds of things all the time. It’s a daily ongoing conversation."
I had no idea that Stefanski was in charge of making trades. If so what is Berry's job? Please, do tell us more. Or do you have any more? Gabriele was not drafted "3 rounds early". You're basing that on the same people who claimed Sanders was a first round pick.
Stefanski benched a QB that just put up 33 pts in a win over the Steelers. Kind of proves the problem was not Flacco. The problem is Stefanski.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
The owner of the team said that the rookies would be playing this season before the season ever started. Kind of proves the point that playing the rookies wasn't strictly a Stefanski call. And once again, Stefanski isn't in charge of making trades. Berry is. But never let facts get in the way of your agenda.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The owner of the team said that the rookies would be playing this season before the season ever started. Kind of proves the point that playing the rookies wasn't strictly a Stefanski call. And once again, Stefanski isn't in charge of making trades. Berry is. But never let facts get in the way of your agenda.
Bottom line is a Stefanski offense has not scored 20 points in well over 20 of the last 25 games. Only exception the QB that he hated Jamies Winston who when at QB Staefanski turned the play calling duties over to the O Coordinator. His offense is holding this team back. But he has his dink and dunk QB in now so he should be happy. Instead the Bengals have the QB that actually gave his team the best chance to win.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Stefanski decided that a rookie gave the team the best chance to win vs a veteran that actually did give the team the best chance to win. The Tackles and the Wide receivers on this roster or lack of on this roster yes are clearly on Andrew Berry. The decision to move on from Flacco is on Stefanski. He is getting the play he clearly wants dink and dunk. He found his dink and dunk QB.
I don't see it that way. I think KS and Berry didn't see the point of hanging onto Flacco since he's gonna be gone after this year regardless. The receivers won't catch and the line can't block... might as well pick up some draft capital.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Stefanski decided that a rookie gave the team the best chance to win vs a veteran that actually did give the team the best chance to win. The Tackles and the Wide receivers on this roster or lack of on this roster yes are clearly on Andrew Berry. The decision to move on from Flacco is on Stefanski. He is getting the play he clearly wants dink and dunk. He found his dink and dunk QB.
I don't see it that way. I think KS and Berry didn't see the point of hanging onto Flacco since he's gonna be gone after this year regardless. The receivers won't catch and the line can't block... might as well pick up some draft capital.
I have no problem getting the draft capital. My problem is the team did not have anyone ready to replace Flacco that was even a lateral move much less a down grade. This tread is about losing culture. That is what it is when Berry and Stefanski do not care about winning. The players stop caring. They see it. We see it. Flacco playing the way he did yesterday screams it. Do the Ravens and Steelers ever want to lose games? No! That is why they are traditional winning teams. They play the draft in the spot it falls to them. Their players play to an expected level of greatness or they move on. What the benching of Flacco and then trading him does to the locker room and replacing him with a joke of an NFL QB does it tells everyone on the team that our Coach and GM do not care so why should I.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Watching the game last night I knew two things were gonna be true:
1. Browns fans would be beating their head against the wall and,
2. Flacco still wouldn’t have worked here.
Truth is Cincinnati is just a lot closer than we are. They have two of the best receivers in the league and are at least in middle of the road in terms of offensive line. True they don’t have much of a running game, but in terms of what Flacco would need, having Chase and Higgins is was going to make him look so much better than anyone he’s throwing to here.
This is also true: We were letting him go at the end of this year, regardless. We were going to be turning to either one of the rookie quarterbacks on the roster or a new quarterback in next year‘s draft, and that’s not really up for debate. So keeping him would have been an emergency Band-Aid and that is all. We have lots of band-aides right now.
But wring your hands if you must. Flacco did the same thing with us: came into a new team without any of the baggage and no expectations and lit it up. I call it the Kelly Holcomb phenomenon. But eventually the old Flacco will let them down. He can’t change his stripes. At some point, in some critical situation, he’s just gonna start given the ball to the other team. I’m willing to put money on it.
So let’s just take a breath and look forward to the next stretch of games which include five out of eight teams with either a 1-4 or 0–5 records. And… Let’s take a little enjoyment in seeing the Steelers get humbled on Monday night. For that I’m thankful to Flacco and Cincinnati.
And tbh.. I’m not so sure that WASN’T Berry’s idea. Let Cinci take the wind out the Stealers with a guy that means nothing to either team at the end of the season. Tomlin HATED it, for good reason. Maybe Tomlin WAS inadvertently right in his little “Berry must be smarter..” swipe. Let your weaker rival take out your stronger rival with ammo you know you’re never going to use again. There’s no downside to the play, except Browns fans beating their heads against walls.
Last edited by 10YrOvernightSuccess; 10/17/2502:47 PM.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
So they should try your idea of calling plays that take forever to develop while whoever is at QB gets killed. Why didn't I think of that?
Haslam said they would be playing the rookies. He also stated Berry would be a part of saying when. You are just hell bent on blaming Stefanski for it despite facts that prove you are wrong. And when that doesn't work you change your narrative. Someone taught you well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Makes a ton of sense. What if wee keep Stefanski and Berry, draft players next year, then have to fire them the year after? Do we just then give up on the players who might not fit the new system?
It's time to make the changes we need to make at GM and HC.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
My feeling is if one goes, it needs to be Berry. If Stefanski goes, Berry needs to go as well.
I would love to see Schwartz move in to the interim head coach role and Tarver move in to the DC role.
After the season, make it permanent.
As for GM, make JW the GM except he would have nothing to do with selecting players. Just hire a draft Czar or whatever you want to call it. Their job would be to hire scouts, scout players, and run the draft.
To me the skills needed to be a good GM and the skills as a draft Czar are opposed in nature.
A good manager isn't necessarily a good talent evaluator, and a good talent evaluator might not have strong management skills. Both are needed, but few have both skills.
Maybe Jimmy needs to quit seeking a unicorn.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Makes a ton of sense. What if wee keep Stefanski and Berry, draft players next year, then have to fire them the year after? Do we just then give up on the players who might not fit the new system?
I fully expect Haslam to make the worst possible decision. This has been a concern of mine if they are all brought back. They draft a QB in 2026, get off to 0-4 or 1-5 type start, Haslam fires everyone mid-season and then then new regime comes in and this QB is not "their guy." This situation played out with Baker Mayfield and it's played out around the NFL before as well.
It seems to be working in Chicago right now, but we'll see how it works out for Cam Ward.
If they (Haslam and the dopey son-in-law) are adamant on taking a QB in 2026, it would be best to completely clean house, imo. DePo, Berry and Stefanski all go. I don't believe half measures would work in a situation where one guy stays and one guy goes. We have seen that before as well, i.e., Sashi Brown is fired, Dorsey hired but Hue Jackson stays only to be fired midway through the following season.
The other grim reality: should Jimmy, Dee and J-Dubs sack everyone and opt for a fresh start, these are the ones picking the next HC and GM.
It's possible us fans are in a lose-lose situation!
I feel like we still don't really acknowledge the franchise wrecking reality that was the DW trade. Would we have been more aggressive in getting OL & WR's if we had that money/ cap room? Would we have them on our roster already were we not out all those draft picks? Would we be in a VASTLY different place had we not crapped the bed the Mayfield? The DW trade is widely considered the worst in the history of modern American sports. To think we'd be rocketing out of that hole inside of 3 years is folly.
So yes, it's been 6 years, that's more than enough time for a franchise to get its act together. But there's a huge asterisk, namely the massive bomb that went off in the middle of the franchise 3 years ago. It decimated the team's draft, hogged the cap and hoovered the team's collective energy and focus. Sure, you can probably blame Berry and maybe to a much lesser degree Ski for that bomb but you're going to have to work pretty hard to convince me that Haslam wasn't the main driver. It's been debated to death but the circumstantial evidence is that Berry & Ski are still around! And it frankly has all the finger prints of our bumbling owner. I'll leave off there.
I think Berry and Ski have played the hand poorly this year so far. They clearly didn't address some glaring holes, haven't worked well with the ingredients they have on hand. They may deserve the hot seat. But I'm inclined to give it more time. Everyone knew they were going to be iffy this year. Everyone knew the first 6 games were going to be a buzzsaw. But they may actually be only 1 off season away from relevancy. I actually mean that.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
Makes a ton of sense. What if wee keep Stefanski and Berry, draft players next year, then have to fire them the year after? Do we just then give up on the players who might not fit the new system?
It's time to make the changes we need to make at GM and HC.
Yep. We're 6yrs into this and looking totally inept. They failed. Keeping KS/AB is no different than keeping a 1-31 Hue Jackson to "see what he could do with better players"......it's exactly what the supporters are asking again. They've also proven that even when they do something positive, they can't sustain it.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I'm not sure what you are seeing means some are so much "supporters" of Stefanski as they are questioning some of the far fetched reasoning certain people use to justify his dismissal. And for me it has nothing to do with Berry. They are two separate people with two separate sets of responsibilities. The roster is terrible and no matter what some try to indicate, he and he alone is responsible for assembling that roster.
Stefanski by contrast made the playoffs after this FO plucked Flacco off the couch and was named coach of the year twice. If you think that compares to anything resembling Hugh Jackson I consider your reasoning quite flawed. So there are some notable differences there.
But I get it. Your record is who you are. You won't keep your job long with the record the Browns have over the past two seasons. IMO the very worst thing we could see happen is for Stefanski to get fired during the season leaving Berry still here to continue the terrible job he has done in putting a talented roster together. Changing coaches while leaving Berry in charge won't fix anything. Having to watch Stefanski play the scapegoat for Berry would be a crap storm.
If they are both fired I would understand that. They came in at the same time and people could certainly make the argument they share in the responsibility to at least some extent for where we are now.
The only remaining disagreement left would be which one of them bares the greatest responsibility. I think that it's Berry and it's not even close for me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The only remaining disagreement left would be which one of them bares the greatest responsibility. I think that it's Berry and it's not even close for me.
It's all fruit of the poisonous tree (Watson), awful injury luck (and torpedo'ed knees), and previously good players randomly forgetting how to play football (this year-Jeudy, Lucas.)
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Andrew Berry has done moves by a GM that simply would have other GMs fired by now .his draft record is Among the worst in the league. And his 2025 Draft isn't enough to validate Him to return . What other team or GM would draft 2 QBs . ? He passed on a difference maker Emeka Ebuka . Mason Graham has looked very average . If Berry gets fired , it will be his last GM job . He inherited a pretty roster And now its a bottom 5 roster . Its all him
Andrew Berry has done moves by a GM that simply would have other GMs fired by now .his draft record is Among the worst in the league. And his 2025 Draft isn't enough to validate Him to return . What other team or GM would draft 2 QBs . ? He passed on a difference maker Emeka Ebuka . Mason Graham has looked very average . If Berry gets fired , it will be his last GM job . He inherited a pretty roster And now its a bottom 5 roster . Its all him
Here you go Stripper now you can complain about every Browns draft pick since 1950
Berry is a poor evaluator of talent .its as evident as the sky is blue. I dont need a pro reference guide to see the Browns draft history. I suggest you look at the Browns draft history since AB arrived and take your orange And brown glasses off. Your the only person I know that thinks He has done a credible job as GM
Well as a Bengals fan its weird you're so interested in the Browns draft history .... And as someone I'm pretty certain claimed Baker wasnt even backup QB material, i question your talent evaluation of anything Football related.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The Browns took a DT in the 2nd Rd last year...then doubled down with another DT in the 1st Rd this year...all the while knowing how putrid was their WR room and with an old, injury-prone OL.
In the 2021 draft, the Bengals desperately needed an OT. Penny Sewell was there for the taking...instead they chose Jamaar Chase. In the 2020 draft the Bengals chose Tee Higgins.
So...the
Bengals should have taken the OT. Burrow probably wouldn't be getting killed all of the time.
Berry is a poor evaluator of talent .its as evident as the sky is blue. I dont need a pro reference guide to see the Browns draft history. I suggest you look at the Browns draft history since AB arrived and take your orange And brown glasses off. Your the only person I know that thinks He has done a credible job as GM
He was the youngest GM in NFL history in 2020, he is still 38 years old, and get off your butt and look up the draft history in the NFL for EVERY team and you will see his drafts are better then you imagine, so are his trades, and free agent signings. Is he perfect..... hell no... nobody is. But he should only keep getting better with more experience.
His 2025 draft so far has been outstanding. For that reason I would give him 26.
I struggle with that because I know the importance of the 26 draft.
If he can repeat in 26 with another great draft the Browns can recover. The obvious key is the selection of a quarterback. Gabriel and Sanders may develop but that still remains a long shot.
Berry is gaining valuable experience. If a young man is humble and learns from mistakes. He can grow and become better at his job.
I think Haslam believes in Berry and will give him 2026 to correct the Watson mistake that he also shares the blame in.
His 2025 draft so far has been outstanding. For that reason I would give him 26.
I struggle with that because I know the importance of the 26 draft.
If he can repeat in 26 with another great draft the Browns can recover. The obvious key is the selection of a quarterback. Gabriel and Sanders may develop but that still remains a long shot.
Berry is gaining valuable experience. If a young man is humble and learns from mistakes. He can grow and become better at his job.
I think Haslam believes in Berry and will give him 2026 to correct the Watson mistake that he also shares the blame in.
What will be really interesting in 2026 is which QB to select. The good news is the Tackle position seems to have depth in next year's draft. Bad news is wide receiver is not real deep next year, and quarterback has players, but no sure fire can't miss prospect. In 2025 the draft was deep at Defensive tackle, running back, tight end and Berry went into all 3 wells and pulled out what looks like really good players Graham, Judkins, and Fannon. The genius move of last year's draft was the unexpected move of Schwesinger. The Browns will have 3 picks in the top 40 picks next year more than likely. Quarterback, tackle, and wide receiver must be upgraded. I think the Browns left tackle of the future resides in round 1 next year. Miami, Alabama, and Oregon OT's all look like sure fire can't miss tackle prospects. There are some other really good tackle prospects. If the Browns had a QB they liked, they could easily double up and book end the tackle position in those picks. If they select a QB we will really have to hope they hit there. I am guessing 4 or 5 will go in round 1 next year. Wide receiver talent will drop quickly in this draft. Many of the best wide receivers in college football this year are true sophomores and freshman.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
The Browns took a DT in the 2nd Rd last year...then doubled down with another DT in the 1st Rd this year...all the while knowing how putrid was their WR room and with an old, injury-prone OL.
In the 2021 draft, the Bengals desperately needed an OT. Penny Sewell was there for the taking...instead they chose Jamaar Chase. In the 2020 draft the Bengals chose Tee Higgins.
So...the
Bengals should have taken the OT. Burrow probably wouldn't be getting killed all of the time.
Burrow wouldn't BE 'Burrow' without Chase. Flacco managed to operate just fine behind that 'terrible' Bengal OL...after being in the offense for less than two weeks.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg)
