DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Now

That may be true. As you said it's pretty much a guessing game. I think much of that decision will rest with who it was making a huge push to land watson. Someone initiated and pushed for that move. While I agree nobody most likely applied pressure in the opposite direction to any degree, someone was so determined to land him they made s second trip to sign him after he had already said Cleveland was off the list. In doing so they gave an arm and a leg to get that deal done.

I think most would agree at least in large part this is what has culminated since that trade to be a major factor in where they find themselves now.

I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that question for sure.

Haslam may have been the one making that push and will be looking for a fall guy. He may think that even with the constraints they faced after making this trade the results should still have been better in maintaining a competitive roster from Berry. It may have been Berry making that push and Haslam will hold him responsible. It may be both Berry and Haslam feel Stefanski should be producing better results with the roster he has been given.

Or, Haslam may realize by him insisting on and giving up so much for watson it was he who created this situation and give this FO and HC a chance to rebuild.

One thing is pretty much a certainty. It's almost unheard of to get a new GM who would retain the current HC. If in fact Haslam places the majority of the watson deal on Berry, it's a very rare case where a new GM doesn't insist on his own HC. And if you get a new GM who will keep the existing HC, I doubt that would be a highly regarded candidate.

Time will tell I suppose.

"Three wins is not going to cut it"
Said jimmy haslam in August.
With Pauli D gone,the GM position is slightly more appealing,but still it would be a very hard sell to any candidate worth a damn.
No worthwhile coach will take the HC position with Berry as GM,except maybe that fat guy that coached the Cowboys.

I haven't seen anything but media opinions indicating Stefanski will be fired. That's the same media that said Sanders would be a first round pick. Rumors are nothing more than that. Rumors.

I have no idea either way and won't lose any sleep over it whether Stefanski stays or goes. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen a HC get held accountable for the crappy roster he has been given. We haven't been on the HC roller coaster ride for a while now. I'm sure some are missing the nostalgia.

I say keep KS, if next year is atrocious, clean house.

After the Watson debacle, Ski deserves one more year to keep his job.

To put it quite simply I've never heard of a team or its fans complain because they have two good QB's. But as we have seen for years now they certainly complain when they have none.

I agree with almost everything you said with one caveat'. All lottery tickets give you the same odds of winning or losing. First round QB's have a much high success rates than either 3rd or 5th round QB's do. So to that degree it is different.

My question is ; what on earth makes you think THIS organization is CAPABLE of drafting a franchise QB ?

I guess the question should be why don't you think Berry can draft a franchise QB? He had an excellent draft last year and I understand why people may ask that question. I mean this franchise has a terrible record at drafting first round QB's. Sometimes that stands out above anything else in our minds.

But the fact of the matter is Berry has never drafted a QB in the first round. I have no idea if he can or not. And since he has never drafted a first round QB before there's really no evidence or track record to base whether he can or not.

I suppose people could use the watson deal as some sort of evidence if they choose to. But none of us really have any idea who the driving force was behind getting watson. It's true it may have been Berry. It's also true it may have been Haslam. If it was Haslam, Berry wasn't responsible for that. He would have simply been following his bosses orders. Since we have no idea how that all went down behind closed doors it's hard for me to place the blame for that on Berry. I'm just not one of those, "well he may have done that" kind of guys.

You and many others have said that you can't judge a draft for at least 3 years,but in this case you are.
Setting that aside,1 good draft out of what 5 0r 6,doesnot a good GM make.His drafts up to last year have been flat out horrible.But,tackles are tackles,which is true it's just some are much better than others.

You can only judge what you see. Since you include every other draft he has ran you too are judging at least two of them before three years have passed. I see you really provided nothing of substance that disputes my post.

I think as the season plays out the solution becomes clearer. Actually, Sanders has the ball in his court. Win and the Browns will be out of the 2026 QB class. Lose out and either Mendoza or Moore will be the Browns QB next year. I do not see the Browns using both #1's on a QB. Not this year. I think both Mendoza and Moore are better prospects than Cam Ward, so they are both worthy of picks 1 and 2. Simpson is good, but he is not top of the draft good. Maybe an option with the 2nd 1st but not the Browns 1st pick. At picks 1 or 2 whether or not Berry and/or Stefanski are back or not or is someone else is picking the Browns will be taking one of those 2 QBs. If they are picking around 10 because they won a game or 2 then they will probably take a WR or LT.

It was not my intention to dispute your post,aas that would only lead to a pissing match.Something I'm not prepared for as my give a damn has been broken again this year.I suspect permanently thistime.
I"m not going to get into the pros and cons of Berry,as I don't believe he will be doing the drafting next year.

There really isn't a pros and cons part of this. Your assertion was in reply to his ability to draft a franchise QB. You really can't dispute the fact this past draft has thus far shown to excellent overall and that he has never drafted a QB in the first round.

Nowhere did I say he would be successful at doing it. I simply said we have no idea because he has never done it before. Does that really sound like I'm claiming he is a draft guru and listing pros as to why he can draft a franchise QB to you?

There is no pissing match to be had here. None of us know one way or the other the answer to that question. If your give a damn was really busted you wouldn't be here. I can see however it is still going to take some time for you to figure that out. I get it though. My passion certainly went down a notch when they signed watson for reasons I made clear at the time and the Browns certainly haven't done anything since to restore it to the level it once was. But just as with you, it didn't break my give damn.

Changing the culture!

Far more important than drafting the “right” quarterback, a new oline or talented wide receivers.
Without trust, loyalty, discipline, drive and accountability this organization will only marginally improve their results with better players.

Andrew Berry has since 2020 drafted, signed, traded or released following quarterbacks. (If something is inaccurate please help me correct it)

Baker Mayfield 2020, 2022 - starting quarterback, traded to the Panthers (Total 19 wins - 14 losses, (11-5 in 2020, 1-1 playoffs)

Case Keenan 2021 - (1-1, no playoff games)
Nick Mullens 2021 - (0-1)

Deshaun Watson 2022 - traded from the Texans (9-10, no playoff games)
Jacoby Brissett 2022 - ? (4-7, no playoff games)

Dorian Thompson-Robinson 2023 - drafted in the 5th round (1-3)
Josh Dobbs 2023 - sign and then later traded to the Cardinals
P.J Walker 2023 - from the practice squad (2-1)
Jeff Driskel 2023 - signed to active roster from the Cardinals (0-1)

Bailey Zappe 2024 to 2025 - signed and released multiple times

Tyler Huntley 2025 - signed and 19 days later released
Joe Flacco 2023, 2025- signed released, signed traded to the Bengals (5-4, 0-1 playoffs)
Kenny Pickett 2025 - traded from the Eagles, traded away to the Raiders
Dillon Gabriel 2025 - drafted (1-5)
Shedeur Sanders 2025 -drafted (1-4)

Names and numbers speak for itself.

The common theme between 2020 and 2025 is the absence of a long term plan. Sign a player with a 230m guaranteed contract isn’t a plan, it’s pure stupidity.
The same thing with the signing and then trading away of Joe Flacco. Pure madness. Neither a short nor a long term plan. It’s so incredibly stupid that the church bells stops on a Sunday.


Where’s the trust?
Where’s the loyalty?
Where’s the discipline?
Where’s the drive?
And where’s the accountability?

We can staple facts on top of each other and the more we discover the worse it gets.
Blaming everything on the Watson deal is to burry our heads in the sand.


Since 2020 almost everything has changed to the worse.
If this organization doesn’t find a way to change culture, establish a long term plan and practice accountability we will have the same discussions all over again in 2030.

You build a team around your QB. You don't build a team for a QB you don't have. Unless of course you think you have it right and the NFL has it wrong.

What might be interesting is a list of Qb's he could have drafted but didn't

He spent three years hoping DW would pan out. Doesn’t really matter which quarterback he didn’t draft.

he had a good draft this past spring

Do you never ask yourself why the Browns are underperforming under such a long period of time as 25 years?

After years of mismanagement the organization finally decides to hire the two best available in the business to turn this around. They get almost unlimited funds, freedom to do whatever they want and six years later it’s nearly worse than ever.

In any competent organization that kind of results raises serious questions. From supporters up to the owners.
It’s called accountability and is one of the cornerstones for an organization to keep a healthy culture and deliver successful results.

When you see supporters starts to sympathize and in some cases protecting those who took the decisions to this failures then you have the sports equivalent of the Stockholm Syndrome. That’s why I’m arguing that changing the culture is far more important than drafting the best talents.

Look at Myles Garrett. We got the best in the business and still it ment absolutely nothing.

The Browns have zero history of developing great quarterbacks. In fact it’s the total opposite going by results. Kevin Stefanski’s record of developing or coaching his quarterbacks is sensational, the two best ones he had to his disposal his general manager decided to trade away. After both of them making the playoffs.

I like that philosophy. Reward failure and punish success. That’s next level leadership.
The organization lacks experience and the Head coach has a record of making the results worse. What’s the odds to succeed?

I still think it would be interesting to see

This ^ is exactly where my mind went the instant we drafted SS...and we had Pickett and Flacco at that moment...with DW likely to be practicing at some point during the season. What was the plan?

The plan was and is you explore every option to get a QB until you have a QB. DW is no longer in that plan.

As of now the Browns still aren't sure they have a QB so the plan continues into next years draft. They are poised with a golden opportunity.

No, no it's not. We can all make up scenarios in our head to make it sound that way. But everybody and their brother knows if you draft a QB in the top 5 he will get his shot as the starter at some point. That includes everyone on the Browns roster. I mean you have been watching the NFL for many decades just as I have, right?